The section on User Error is so important, even as just GM advice! When you're running a game, all of the world information, communication, and frame of reference is flowing through the GM. If your players are misinformed about something that you as the GM thought was obvious, you have to identify WHY and fix the communication gap.
At the end of each session I used to get my players to vote on an "awesome award" for a player who did the most awesome thing. This matured into also having each player making up a category (often with a witty name) for an award to be given to another players PC. These awards granted XP... but what they were *for* was this: The very best feedback you will ever receive after running a game is to listen to your players discuss the game (without your direct input or perceived presence). I would sit to one side and "finish writing up/updating my notes" whilst they all sat around and chatted about the session we just had, whilst choosing who got what awards. They would mention all the coolest bits, the bits they enjoyed, but also just discuss friction points as a matter of fact. Occasionally I would ask for a reminder on something they did in the session or intentions going forwards, for my notes - sometimes because I needed it, but also to prompt them on that area of play resulting in them often discussing that part with everyone else. This is the purest form of feedback because it lets you know what players *noticed* and paid attention to in the game, and what they wished they could've done (had opportunity or rules (as they know them) allowed it). Everything else was either unimportant or frictionless enough to not register as an issue (and so doesn't need "fixing"). Sure, if I was trialing a new mechanic, I would harvest feedback in a more traditional manner (state intentions and specification before use; quiz them and record answers repeatedly over a period; and then review my notes - now detached by time and recorded in an impersonal stance - after it had been trialed for a while) - but honestly, the best holistic feedback for you game isn't answers to questions you've asked - it's listening to players chatting and venting among themselves. (PS. I hope this comment is more succinct and readable than my previous contributions, which I do apologise for)
Listening to players discuss the session as if you're not there is not only the most holistic form of feedback like you say, there's also something so satisfying about it as a GM. What a great comment.
Off topic feedback is even more valuable than on topic feedback. It reflects the most prominent experience for that player, and positive or negative, that lets you work out if you're succeeding in your goals.
You have done well to identify a truism in writing and development: the consumer is always correct to point out an issue but almost never correct when they offer a solution.
As someone who runs professional games and games with friends this is solid advice. It is especially important to ask pointed (but not leading questions) after the game or during break times? One thing I do is focus on key moments in the campaign or story. I will ask, *How* a player or players feel about this moment? What did it make them feel (Negative and Positive)? Also being okay with running your worst game or something you are not confident in, is entirely going to be hard to get over. I noticed that with friends or people you are close to: Be Honest. Say you are doing your best and then gauge what is worth changing as you mentioned GDS! Super insightful over all, you definitely cooking on this! Which one did you/do you struggle with personally?
I'm glad you like the video! Targeting key moments with feedback questions is a great tip. Something I'll add which you probably already know is to let the players recap the moment instead of doing it yourself. You'll notice their perception of the moment is very different from yours. I struggle the most with being comfortable running my worst game, especially for people I care about. My instinct is to want to only run the BEST version of my game for those people. But like we said, that's not necessarily an instinct one should follow. Fwiw I find that good friends find a way to latch onto the positive parts anyways.
Would a better way to ask the western genre question be something like "During this combat I was aiming for a specific genre feel. Did this combat feel like any genre?" Cause then you might find out unprompted that it made them think of a pirate genre instead of a western
You may be right, and there's definitely a better way to do what I was trying to do there. Fwiw the reason I mentioned the genre by name is trying to avoid "guess what genre I'm thinking of".
There's a lot to like about this video, but there's a few things that particularly resonated that I wanted to... I guess regurgitate in my own words, and add what it made me think about. - I think the title is a great distillation of the inspirational piece of GMing philosophy that you explain at the end of the video, it's what made me click on this in the first place as well. I try to keep this in mind when thinking of what I want to run next. If I'm always running the 'worst' version of a given adventure or campaign, then there's no reason to 'save ideas for later'. It's much better to use my best ideas *now*, because a) they're good ideas and they'll make my game better; b) I'll learn a lot from implementing these ideas (and listening to feedback, of course!) and c) I'll always have new great ideas to 'replace' them. - The 'user error = design error' thing is also a very useful thing to keep in mind as GM. It's a good reminder that what you tell the players is their primary window into the world. That doesn't necessarily mean any problems are always your fault, but that reviewing your communication from an outside perspective can give you great insight in how you can help prevent miscommunication, by better aligning your communication with how your players think. Who 'was at fault' doesn't matter so much then. The information disparity between players and the GM you describe is the same way. - The other comments. They have some great additions! I'm going to head off to campaign-prep-land now, but I think I'll watch some more of your work later on. Thank you for the advice and inspiration you've given!
I like the point about having an authorial voice, that you won't please everyone. That doesn't mean that I shouldn't take some criticism, but sometimes people like different things. For example, I like streamlined rules. Had a player not enjoy a session because they like a large skill list. The problem wasn't really with my game, but with a misalignment of priorities. Nice channel, I subscribed.
To be honest I’ve had a similar thought- every run-through of an adventures is going to be a first draft. The only exception is you running the adventures more than once which is going to be rare unless you’re going to become a publisher
really cool that the algorythm directed me to your content! great video and I agree with your take. if you don't mind some constructive feedback (pun intended): include your points in written text into your video. it helps viewers focus on the topic and follow your line of thoughts :)
Comment for the comment gods. Everything is a negotiation. The rules are there to provide structure. But ultimately, we are all here to have fun. If everyone had fun, then we were all successful.
Awesome video! I'm about to *finally* sample Pathfinder 2e with my party using the new remaster. I plan to do my best in adapting and customizing the classic D&D 3.0 module The Sunless Citadel. 🙂
That is incorrect. User error = design error means that if your players keep getting dice mixed up, and if that is a problem for the game, then that is a problem the game needs to design for, or accept and accommodate that it will continue happening. Not using one of the dice (d10s in your example) is one solution. There are many others.
@@danrimo826 It makes some uses of both d8s and d10s, like say Savage Worlds' stats, actually an incorrect design choice. You're mincing words - "a problem the game needs to design for" is a design error. Plain and simple. There are no solutions that allow you to use them in the way Savage Worlds intends. If the problem is recognition of dice, there are no ways to use both dice that avoid this problem. Your lack of an actual solution speaks volumes.
@LeFlamel I think you agree with us when you say a problem you have to design for is a design error. danrimo has the right idea. Some other potential solutions off the top of my head: color code dice, place dice in specific marked spots on the table, name dice used for single purposes, pre-make a specific dice pool if only it uses d8 or d10. There are plenty of solutions to the problem you describe.
@@gds-productions The die pool suggestion is not a solution to the use of both d8 and d10s in a design, it's avoiding it. The other suggestions you've listed are solutions, so I commend you for that. Color-coding dice at the rulebook level is generally frowned upon as a solution due to implicitly telling the GM/players to buy specific dice. So color-coding, as well as specific locations for each step die type, are not good design solutions, but accommodations made for players at the GM level rather than the rules level. And, if we are to call this issue a design error, you are calling out every TTRPG with step dice that I've seen, since none of them had rules-level accommodations for this error. You are free to have that opinion, but to me it just sounds like you're sticking to a maxim to the point of absurdity instead of just acknowledging that all maxims have limits - which is pretty much the more nuanced take in every single topic worth discussing. Like, simply because some players trip up on basic math doesn't mean the use of ANY player-facing math is inherently a design error. Come on.
The section on User Error is so important, even as just GM advice! When you're running a game, all of the world information, communication, and frame of reference is flowing through the GM. If your players are misinformed about something that you as the GM thought was obvious, you have to identify WHY and fix the communication gap.
Great point!
User Error = Design Error 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Love your videos! It is a shame that you aren't getting many views right now. Hope to see you blow up soon.
Thank you, I'm glad you love my videos!
At the end of each session I used to get my players to vote on an "awesome award" for a player who did the most awesome thing. This matured into also having each player making up a category (often with a witty name) for an award to be given to another players PC.
These awards granted XP... but what they were *for* was this: The very best feedback you will ever receive after running a game is to listen to your players discuss the game (without your direct input or perceived presence).
I would sit to one side and "finish writing up/updating my notes" whilst they all sat around and chatted about the session we just had, whilst choosing who got what awards. They would mention all the coolest bits, the bits they enjoyed, but also just discuss friction points as a matter of fact.
Occasionally I would ask for a reminder on something they did in the session or intentions going forwards, for my notes - sometimes because I needed it, but also to prompt them on that area of play resulting in them often discussing that part with everyone else.
This is the purest form of feedback because it lets you know what players *noticed* and paid attention to in the game, and what they wished they could've done (had opportunity or rules (as they know them) allowed it). Everything else was either unimportant or frictionless enough to not register as an issue (and so doesn't need "fixing").
Sure, if I was trialing a new mechanic, I would harvest feedback in a more traditional manner (state intentions and specification before use; quiz them and record answers repeatedly over a period; and then review my notes - now detached by time and recorded in an impersonal stance - after it had been trialed for a while) - but honestly, the best holistic feedback for you game isn't answers to questions you've asked - it's listening to players chatting and venting among themselves.
(PS. I hope this comment is more succinct and readable than my previous contributions, which I do apologise for)
Listening to players discuss the session as if you're not there is not only the most holistic form of feedback like you say, there's also something so satisfying about it as a GM. What a great comment.
Holy crud! This is so good.
I’m realizing this applies to ttrpg, board games, computer games and even making videos on YT.
Big sub here!
Thank you, welcome to the channel!
Off topic feedback is even more valuable than on topic feedback. It reflects the most prominent experience for that player, and positive or negative, that lets you work out if you're succeeding in your goals.
Great point on WHY off topic is often more valuable, thanks for sharing!
You have done well to identify a truism in writing and development: the consumer is always correct to point out an issue but almost never correct when they offer a solution.
Thank you!
That's a very useful video, especially for a novice DM
Glad it was helpful, thanks for stopping by!
As someone who runs professional games and games with friends this is solid advice. It is especially important to ask pointed (but not leading questions) after the game or during break times? One thing I do is focus on key moments in the campaign or story. I will ask, *How* a player or players feel about this moment? What did it make them feel (Negative and Positive)?
Also being okay with running your worst game or something you are not confident in, is entirely going to be hard to get over. I noticed that with friends or people you are close to: Be Honest. Say you are doing your best and then gauge what is worth changing as you mentioned GDS! Super insightful over all, you definitely cooking on this! Which one did you/do you struggle with personally?
I'm glad you like the video! Targeting key moments with feedback questions is a great tip. Something I'll add which you probably already know is to let the players recap the moment instead of doing it yourself. You'll notice their perception of the moment is very different from yours.
I struggle the most with being comfortable running my worst game, especially for people I care about. My instinct is to want to only run the BEST version of my game for those people. But like we said, that's not necessarily an instinct one should follow. Fwiw I find that good friends find a way to latch onto the positive parts anyways.
Would a better way to ask the western genre question be something like "During this combat I was aiming for a specific genre feel. Did this combat feel like any genre?" Cause then you might find out unprompted that it made them think of a pirate genre instead of a western
You may be right, and there's definitely a better way to do what I was trying to do there. Fwiw the reason I mentioned the genre by name is trying to avoid "guess what genre I'm thinking of".
@@gds-productions that's fair, it's definitely a hard thing to ask imo
*roll on the algoythm friendly random comment table
P.S.:
you: 'do it'
me, in Palpatine voice: 'do it'
you, in Palpatine voice: 'do it'
me: *big smile
There's a lot to like about this video, but there's a few things that particularly resonated that I wanted to... I guess regurgitate in my own words, and add what it made me think about.
- I think the title is a great distillation of the inspirational piece of GMing philosophy that you explain at the end of the video, it's what made me click on this in the first place as well. I try to keep this in mind when thinking of what I want to run next. If I'm always running the 'worst' version of a given adventure or campaign, then there's no reason to 'save ideas for later'. It's much better to use my best ideas *now*, because a) they're good ideas and they'll make my game better; b) I'll learn a lot from implementing these ideas (and listening to feedback, of course!) and c) I'll always have new great ideas to 'replace' them.
- The 'user error = design error' thing is also a very useful thing to keep in mind as GM. It's a good reminder that what you tell the players is their primary window into the world. That doesn't necessarily mean any problems are always your fault, but that reviewing your communication from an outside perspective can give you great insight in how you can help prevent miscommunication, by better aligning your communication with how your players think. Who 'was at fault' doesn't matter so much then. The information disparity between players and the GM you describe is the same way.
- The other comments. They have some great additions!
I'm going to head off to campaign-prep-land now, but I think I'll watch some more of your work later on. Thank you for the advice and inspiration you've given!
Awesome, thanks for stopping by!
I like the point about having an authorial voice, that you won't please everyone. That doesn't mean that I shouldn't take some criticism, but sometimes people like different things. For example, I like streamlined rules. Had a player not enjoy a session because they like a large skill list. The problem wasn't really with my game, but with a misalignment of priorities.
Nice channel, I subscribed.
Thank you, and welcome aboard!
To be honest I’ve had a similar thought- every run-through of an adventures is going to be a first draft. The only exception is you running the adventures more than once which is going to be rare unless you’re going to become a publisher
"Down in the blah-blah" you Cilville watcher, you
Well done 👌
really cool that the algorythm directed me to your content!
great video and I agree with your take. if you don't mind some constructive feedback (pun intended): include your points in written text into your video. it helps viewers focus on the topic and follow your line of thoughts :)
Love this! Subbed. ^^
Glad you loved it! Welcome aboard.
Comment for the comment gods. Everything is a negotiation. The rules are there to provide structure. But ultimately, we are all here to have fun. If everyone had fun, then we were all successful.
Solid video. Thank you. You’ve got a New Subscriber ❤
Thank you, welcome to the channel!
@@gds-productions Thank you! 😊
Awesome video! I'm about to *finally* sample Pathfinder 2e with my party using the new remaster. I plan to do my best in adapting and customizing the classic D&D 3.0 module The Sunless Citadel. 🙂
Thanks, and sounds awesome! Consider coming by the discord server and letting us know how it goes.
Very good video!
Glad you liked it!
User error = design error would imply I should never use d10s because players confuse them with d8s. There are limits to maxims.
That is incorrect. User error = design error means that if your players keep getting dice mixed up, and if that is a problem for the game, then that is a problem the game needs to design for, or accept and accommodate that it will continue happening. Not using one of the dice (d10s in your example) is one solution. There are many others.
@@danrimo826 It makes some uses of both d8s and d10s, like say Savage Worlds' stats, actually an incorrect design choice. You're mincing words - "a problem the game needs to design for" is a design error. Plain and simple. There are no solutions that allow you to use them in the way Savage Worlds intends. If the problem is recognition of dice, there are no ways to use both dice that avoid this problem. Your lack of an actual solution speaks volumes.
@LeFlamel
I think you agree with us when you say a problem you have to design for is a design error.
danrimo has the right idea. Some other potential solutions off the top of my head: color code dice, place dice in specific marked spots on the table, name dice used for single purposes, pre-make a specific dice pool if only it uses d8 or d10.
There are plenty of solutions to the problem you describe.
@@gds-productions The die pool suggestion is not a solution to the use of both d8 and d10s in a design, it's avoiding it. The other suggestions you've listed are solutions, so I commend you for that.
Color-coding dice at the rulebook level is generally frowned upon as a solution due to implicitly telling the GM/players to buy specific dice. So color-coding, as well as specific locations for each step die type, are not good design solutions, but accommodations made for players at the GM level rather than the rules level.
And, if we are to call this issue a design error, you are calling out every TTRPG with step dice that I've seen, since none of them had rules-level accommodations for this error.
You are free to have that opinion, but to me it just sounds like you're sticking to a maxim to the point of absurdity instead of just acknowledging that all maxims have limits - which is pretty much the more nuanced take in every single topic worth discussing.
Like, simply because some players trip up on basic math doesn't mean the use of ANY player-facing math is inherently a design error. Come on.
Instructions unclear. Hit the like button 17 times
✅️
At least it was an odd number!
Good video. Talking at a 4th grade level is annoying but the content is on point.