This Drone is Made of 3D Printed Carbon Fiber!!
Vložit
- čas přidán 3. 12. 2023
- Would you use this material for your drone frame?
ROTOR RIOT!
#FPVFREESTYLE #bambulab #bambulabXC1
- - - - - - - - - -
Check out the Tanq Frame by Shawn!
rotorriot.com/products/tanq-5...
Support Rotor Riot by purchasing from our store:
rotorriot.com/?aff=1
Want to fly FPV like the pros? Start here:
rotorriot.com/pages/beginners...
Want to start off in the simulator first? We've got you covered:
rotorriot.com/products/fpv-re...
Get Pre-Built Drones here:
rotorriot.com/collections/ful...
Get Rotor Riot Apparel here:
rotorriot.com/merch/?aff=1
Get Rotor Riot Motors here:
rotorriot.com/hypetrain/?aff=1
Check out the latest FPV Parts on the market:
rotorriot.com/new/?aff=1
- - - - - - - - - -
- FPV Freestyle Pilots / Hosts -
Shawn Morrison [Let's Fly RC]
/ letsflyrc
Caleb Wright [BubbyFPV]
/ bubbyfpv
Peter Villarreal [PeterFPV]
/ @peter_fpv
- Production Team -
Drew Camden/Caleb Wright - Producer
Reese d'Aquin - Editor/Cameraman
www.rotorriot.com/?aff=1 - Zábava
The thing most people get wrong with 3D printed drones is the shape. The classical drone frame is designed to be cheap to make, it just gets cut out of a flat carbon fibre sheet, because of this the design is basically 2D with a little thickness. When 3D printing though you should take advantage of the ability to make complex 3D shapes and optimise the shape for strength. This design was better than others I have seen because it has very thick arms but the design could still be much better.
Yes you are correct.
I designed my own 5" frame, fully 3D printed and it fly's just fine without any special tune. The most important thing is to have 2 "arms " for every arm if you understand.
Also it is truly symmetrical X, everything is stacked ontop
@@uzer12387 my drone is printed out of simple PLA
@@uzer12387 are you on about using carbon fibre, as in sheets or are you on about using carbon fibre filled filament?
@@David-ty6my it's great that it works printed out of PLA but PLA isn't exactly known for it's mechanical properties, it is known to be relatively weak and brittle. You could probably reduce weight and get a stiffer and more impact resistant frame if you used better materials like carbon fibre filled nylons, they are lighter than PLA by volume, they can be stiffer and they tend to be stronger and more impact resistant.
@@David-ty6my What do you mean with "2 arms for every arm"?
I also fly a 3D printed frame (PLA+). Also true X with the FC+Vista stacked on top of eachother.
Only 2.5" though.
Way to go Shawn it might not be as tough as carbon but it's a huge step forward, and being able to print these at home for an emergency is really cool.
I print all my quad arms from LW-PLA so I don't have to walk so far to get the pieces.
lol
Lmao 🤣
Isn’t LW-PLA significantly weaker after foaming though?
@@conorstewart2214 Definitely but PLA will snap from a hit anyway so Why not print it in 40% of the mass? :)
Dang Bubby with those huge dives into those gaps. WOW. Amazing
Came here to say this.
Yea jawdropping
I bet it would work pretty good for micros or a tiny whoop frame.
i would think with micros you would run into weight being an issue. to get the stiffness you might have to go thick. I might work tho.
Keep those videos coming!!!
Got to use a markforged, continuous carbon fiber, close to aluminum in strength.
Sadly the markforged printers are so expensive in comparison to a traditional fdm printer
Im stoked you guys are posting every Monday now. Pretty sweet build. Im interested in how much it weighs vs the actual tanq. And whats wild is how thick the arms are on the tanq. 8mm is unheard of. Crazy thick
Awesome - but you’re missing the main benefit of being able to print: organic shapes.
Flat / solid arms are a huge compromise, but the most reasonable and economical way to make carbon frames form flat sheets of CF.
You can make a much stronger and much lighter frame if you optimize it with organic round shapes, internal bracing, and print hollow. Like bone.
How to get to that shape I have no idea. Hahaha. FEA
Yeah frames like this aren’t good for 3D printing, as for designing frames for 3D printing, most prints are hollow anyway and the empty space is filled with infill and you can choose the infill pattern and density so that could take care of the hollow and internal bracing you mentioned and since infill is all handled by the slicer you don’t need to design any of it in yourself, just make the arm a solid object and set the slicer settings.
Great video guys
I think the key would be to use some sort of generative design to optimize the shape.
I've 3d printed carbon fiber nylon, it doesn't have the strength of the fibers because its ground up. Pla warps and cracks to easily. The best ed printed drone is the no stress toad in TPU, but the plates i glue fiberglass panels to reinforce the battery strap, then i mount a camera canopy to the top. I have a f3 in mine and it flys as good as anything and it's unreasonably durable, its made craters in the ground and survived, except for the battery and props
Awesome.
Thats amazing
CF filament is a really cool and fun filament to print even when it is abrasive (if not hardened steel or other). I recently made a 3d printed cinewhoop and files but I haven’t had the chance to do any real flying easily since it is cold where I am in IL.
You could possibly design in failure points on the arms, have a section that it is very likely to fail at in a crash and have it as a separate piece joining the two parts of the arm together, or joining the arm onto the body and then when that part fails you just need to swap out a small section, not even a whole arm.
I been running a 3d printed pla arm on my nazgul 5 for a while now. Shortens flight times for sure but still flies pretty decent for a cheap "temporary" fix.
You could also print motor protection into the arm, if going that route.
Then if you wear out the motor protection you have to replace the arm too. Having flexible/soft TPU sections on parts would maybe be a good idea or maybe even an exoskeleton.
Seeing Drew’s old spot…memories unlocked
what was the infill percentage and how many walls where used when printing the drone frame?
TPU drone
BUT DOES IT SBANG? 9:50! Sbang approved
Lol
Very interesting, informative and fun video. It worked, cool. Will it work on a frame with less robust arms? Like the Moxy or Skyliner?
Happy flying everyone. 😎
It is not a good idea to 3D print frames designed for getting cut out of a carbon fibre sheet. A carbon fibre sheet and a printed part have very different mechanical properties. You should take proper advantage of 3D printing and design a frame to play into 3D printings strengths. A properly designed and optimised 3D printed frame would perform much better than just printing out a carbon fibre sheet frame.
An idea I have had would be to print the main drone frame (optimised for 3D printing) out of a stiff material like a carbon fibre nylon but then add a TPU exoskeleton around it to absorb the impacts. You should experiment with different materials, some good ones to try would be standard nylons, polycarbonate or polypropylene (it is difficult to print but may be fine on the X1C). Polycarbonate is impact resistant as is nylon. Polypropylene is semi flexible and incredibly durable and impact resistant. If printed properly it should be stiff enough for a drone but then the frame should never break on impact.
With nylons in general if you let them absorb moisture they become less stiff and more impact resistant. Sometimes for some use cases or during assembly they soak nylon parts in a bucket of water to greatly improve its flexibility whilst it is assembled or used, that very much depends on the nylon used though, PA6 absorbs lots of moisture, PA12 doesn’t.
A very stiff option that doesn’t absorb much moisture is PET-CF.
Which carbon fibre nylon did they send you? They have a few, they have their original PA-CF (PA6 based), then they released their PAHT-CF (high temperature nylon and PA12 based) then recently they released a different PA6-CF. The PA6-CF has the highest strength and stiffness of all their filaments when dry but when wet the properties just about half. The PAHT-CF is more impact resistant bur has slightly lower properties but can withstand a higher temperature and doesn’t absorb anywhere near as much water and hence doesn’t degrade much.
The actual stiffest and most temperature resistant filament they have is PET-CF (not PETG-CF) but I don’t think it is very impact resistant, so the PAHT-CF is probably the best option for you.
you were supposed to anneal the PLA- CF parts before using them, That would give it temp. resistance almost as much as CF-Nylon
would be cool if you'd try the petg cf. the new a1 mini, which is a bit more affordable for most people, can't print high temp filaments but should be able to print petg cf w/o a problem.
Ngl it hurts to see Bambu giving out so many X1Cs to all the companies and influencers that can easily afford them, while keeping them at $1500 for us "normals"
But they sure know how to market I guess...
I believe it will hold up well if you 3d print a cinewhoop some thing like the foxwhoop 25
How much does it cost to print the frame? What's the cost difference to a regular frame?
The Bambu lab high temperature, carbon fibre reinforced filaments (PAHT-CF, PA6-CF and PET-CF) are like £70 - 90 per kilogram so it all depends on the weight of the arm. There are much cheaper materials though but they will have different properties.
If a frame was properly designed for 3D printing then it should work with polycarbonate or other such filaments which are cheaper.
the real benefit here is being able to print complex structures to make up for the weaker material. the sheet based frame designs are far from optimal and a single piece generative design 3d frame may make up for the weaker material.
Yeah the sheet based designs are optimised for cost mainly and are really just 2D designs with some thickness. With 3D printing you don’t have any of the same limitations so you should take advantage of the ability to make complex shapes and it absolutely would compensate for the material itself being weaker.
You don’t even need it to be a generative design, for the most part they aren’t that useful, they just look cool. Also a lot of generative designs are based on simulations and you can’t accurately simulate 3D printed parts.
It has to be easy to replace too. A 3d design would have more attachment points.
When's the tanq 2 coming?
Soon. ;)
great I want a bamboo printer now
3D printed micros work so well. Especially printed in PC. PC is the most impact resistant material you can print and it's still stiff. It's also worth designing prints that are more "3D" taking advantage of the ability to print any shape rather than just printing out a flat plate - you'll never get close to matching CF performance that way.
PC is generally very impact resistant but polycarbonate is a class of materials, there is a lot of variation within it, so not all polycarbonates are the most impact resistant. Looking at Bambu lab PC it is far from their most impact resistant filaments and it isn’t that stiff either.
Yeah printing out designs that are optimised for being cut out of a carbon fibre sheet won’t get great results, they need to get someone to properly design a frame taking advantage of the capabilities of 3D printing, it would perform much better.
@@conorstewart2214 yeah, you are right there. I hadn't looked at Bambu filaments specifically, though good on them for having such comprehensive datasheets.
Surprised by the Bambu filaments impact strengths to be honest. Guess their PC is some kind of blend to be printing at sub 300C temperatures?
Is it also a bit surprising that their CF filaments have higher impact strengths than the non-CF. I thought conventional wisdom is that with chopped CF you are trading stiffness with brittleness.
I had modded my Prusa to print PC at >330C, and was getting great results, but my favourite PC filament manufacturer (rigid.ink) stopped making filament, and I did certainly notice that other brands weren't as good.
Thinking of trying ABS next as due to its lower density have an extra 20% of volume to play with for the same weight.
@@kevinbernitz6580 where are you seeing that their CF filaments have higher impact strength? You can only really compare them with the same base material and their PLA-CF has less impact strength than their PLA and their PETG-CF has less impact strength than their PETG. The PA filaments have high impact strength because the base nylon does.
I have printed other brands of PC below 300 C before and they do print but I do agree that bambu have done something to make it print better at the cost of lower mechanical properties. According to their MSDS, it is 99 % polycarbonate with only 1 % additives by weight.
@@conorstewart2214 you are right - I obviously got myself confused. Comparing their PETG to PETG-CF it's showing the correct pattern of CF being lower impact resistance.
Something else that I find interesting (that maybe I'm getting wrong again) is their TDS shows their PETG is one of their most impact resistant materials.. I've not yet used their PETG, but my previous experience with PETG showed it to be really brittle, pretty much shattering on impacts.
Should've used 3D printed props too :) like the TPU ones I made a couple of years ago that worked first time
Shawn, one Question. Is the printed frame conductve oder not? Best regards!
what are those FPV goggles and what system is it?
Woooo early on this one 🤘🏻🤘🏻
Another thing you could try is printing a carbon rod into the arm.
That actually sounds like a smart idea, will have to try that
-Bubby
Before trying that it is probably worth designing a frame to take advantage of a 3D printers capabilities rather than printing a flat object.
First in france right ? ^^
Nice, I have a bambu lab also, I'll try it !
WHERE IS THE DRONE STL FILE? OR IS IT FOR SALE?
#TeamTANQ ✊!!!!
Outstanding flying Bubb.
For the drone...looked like it rocked until you broke it. But...LOTS of "better" frames wouldn't take a hit to concrete damage free would they?
Beer in mind this was just 3D printing a design meant to be cut out of a carbon fibre plate. A properly designed frame for 3D printing would do better.
i want to see that cf-pla frame built up. I bet it would fly horribly, but I bet it would fly!
Ça vibre...
3d printing frame
That PLA frame looks like Chris Rosser's logo! 😂😆
PETG-CF should be stiffer to get rid of the vibration
PAHT-CF has a bending modulus of 4230 MPa, for dry PA6-CF it is 5460 MPa, and for PETG-CF it is only 2910 MPa, so it is actually significantly less stiff. PETG is known for being pretty flexible.
Maybe you meant PET-CF which has a bending modulus of 5320 MPa so it is stiff but it’s impact strength is pretty low.
Hey Guys,
Maybe you can test the print for some lightweight toothpick frames. The mass is not that high and maybe the durability is enough for that 😃
Shawn, Get the PET Carbon Fiber. It's stronger than the Nylon-CF, but like all CF, you can't load it in the AMS.
The only carbon fibre filaments that Bambu say aren’t compatible with the AMS is the PA6-CF and PET-CF and that is due to the brittleness of the filament.
The PET-CF isn’t really stronger and is actually less suitable for drones, it has much lower impact resistance but is very stiff. The best option is probably the PAHT-CF, it has the highest impact resistance and good strength and doesn’t absorb much water. The PA6-CF is best in terms of mechanical properties other than impact resistance and the fact that it absorbs a lot of moisture very quickly and it’s mechanical properties drop massively so it’s only good if you can stop it from absorbing moisture.
almost any printer can be upgraded to print this of course. add $70 high temperature hotend and temperature sensor. update your software, marlin in many cases, to increase maximum tempt to 300-315. Keep your nylon dry, heat it up in oven for 10 hours if it is damp and use a filament dryer while printing and you are golden. Bambulabs printer are capable of high speeds and I love them of course but price tag shouldn't discourage someone from attempting this at home. I can print nylon carbon filaments with 5000 7000 acceleration with my slightly modified $129 printer. In total, on top of the printer's price tag, I probably spent another $200 to get to high speeds with klipper based hardware and a nice hotend capable of high temperatures. that being said, I wouldn' t mind a Bambulabs printer. I hope Santa brings me one this year.
Think you chaps need to try some of your flying style with a mini tcopter 5"
Does anyone have the files to print the drone ?
I'd really like to see a oblivion style drone thats a little beefier done in PC
It would be better to design a frame meant for 3D printing rather than trying to print a frame meant for getting cut out of a carbon fibre sheet. Normal carbon fibre frame designs are not good designs for 3D printing.
@@conorstewart2214 i said oblivion style, it was injection molded... I tried making one but it kept breaking easily. I currently use a frame called the toad that says no stress across the front, that is tpu, of course I've modified it with a extra carbon fiber plate in the bottom to reinforce it due to the weight of the battery, i used a soldering iron to oush aluminum standoffs i cut to length down threw to mount the top and bottom plates i make in petg, they lock the frame together to make it more rigid and I use a whoop canopy on the top for the camer so i don't have to look at the front part if the frame. I also used washers under the motor mounting screws so they don't pull through. The frame flys wonderfully, so smooth being most the structure is tpu, but im not running super powerful motors, some old red bottoms on 35a escs. The biggest issue I've found is the battery on the bottom is easy to knock off and destroy hanging from the bottom...i used a old bike inner tube to help protect the batteries, but i still I need to modify it for 2 battery straps yet
What goggles is Peter wearing
Where did drew go?
Anyone else want to see the PLA fly while warped like that lol
Next Test: Print One Moxy arm on a rig built to Bubbys Specs and don’t tell him. Maybe print the whole thing and don’t tell anyone. His build his tune. For his radio and goggles.
Or you could just design a frame that is meant for 3D printing, rather than trying to print a frame meant for being cut out of a flat carbon fibre sheet.
Bye the way your home brew prototype is more drone than I have to put in the air right now.
I thought Sean got Tattoos on his neck. 😂
At 85 euro a 1kg i only see this being a nice idea in a pinch 😂
If the frame was designed for 3D printing then maybe cheaper materials could be used.
Lol in like flynn
What goggles are those?
I think the drone was your best yet. You are goin in the right direction. Don’t doubt yourself.
Bottom line…you know a lot more than them about printing than those guys. And for them to just find some off things with your tune….cmon! You did great Sean! Stop doubting yourself.
The carbon fiber actually makes the plastic stiffer and more brittle so not the best for drones
For drones you want the arms to be stiff.
PEEK would have been better then nylon but then it is 600 bucks a spool XD
Where's drib?
Hmm 1:55 …. 😂😂
Drew is missing from another episode of RR, has he retired from the hobby?
Detroit lol it will be destroyed in 3 seconds
I'm kinda sad none of them went immediately to "hmm this looks like too much I gain" but the video is still fine ahah
SO.. one little comments there.. you should NOT mix one 3D printed drone arm into a carbonfiber frame, with all the other arms still there in the original carbon fiber version. it's SUPER dangerous !!! I did this on an Emax Hawk Sport 5, broke one arm, and replaced it with a 3D printed PLA arm, and the second i hit ARM, it did a PID runaway, shooting instantly for the stars on 0% throttle... disarmed and crashed from 50 meters'ish altitude into pure concrete.
That sounds like mistakes on your part. First of all you should not have been trying to use normal PLA for a drone arm, amongst all the other issues it goes soft at 50-60 C, which means your motors could have melted it.
Secondly, your drone shooting up in the air at 0 % throttle would not be due to the arm being printed at all. Most likely you damaged something in the crash that led to you replacing the arm.
38 seconds ago...
I printed drones years ago. And for lightweight drones i would prefer IT . But for freestyle Quad IT IS Not durable enough. Also the Vibration from the Motors are Not good for printed frames.
So it’s not good or durable enough just because you said so? Did you just take a carbon fibre frame design and print it? If so then that is your problem, most drone designs are meant for being cut out of a carbon fibre sheet and therefore and optimised for that. If you want to get good results with 3D printed frames you need to create a frame that is optimised for 3D printing.
yooooo earlyyyy
You are given the tools of the future and you want to live in the past. Redesign the drone for 3d printing strength. X frame is not it
Early!
It would be interesting to see 3D printing tested more on smaller drones, the forces should be smaller and with good design it should be gäl. to perform pretty well.
Video starts at 13:00
Pla- cf is actually weaker than pla just fyi
That is a vastly oversimplified and just untrue statement. There are a lot of variations of PLA and PLA-CF but in the case of Bambu labs the PLA-CF is stiffer and stronger but has less impact resistance.
even nylon with "carbon fiber" is no match to real carbon fiber frames. its a look thing, not a structural thing. Sure it will fly, but you have to tune the shit out of it to get rid of the vibrations, like he talked about but didn't really show how much effort and waste of time it is to make a vibration heavy frame to fly, and not take hits like a 5inch. it would do better as a smaller 2inch 3d print frame, but even still, with the price of electronics.... its a shame to waste electronics on something everyone keeps thinking is a great idea and every video showing how bad it is. just a clickbait video
It's not a looks thing, nylon is inherently flexible so the carbon stiffens it. Same with glass filled nylon. Unfortunately this takes away to the validity of your claim
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Adding carbon fibre or other additives (glass fibre, glass microspheres, ceramic microspheres, etc) does change the structural properties of the plastic, pretty significantly in some cases, mainly by improving stiffness.
3D printing frames is still a great idea, but only when the frame is designed for 3D printing. Most people these guys included, just take a frame designed for cutting out of carbon fibre sheets and print it. The frames are optimised for carbon fibre sheets not 3D printing, if the frame was designed and optimised for 3D printing and the material used it would work much better.