Swordplay in 90s Retro Videogames - Was it any good?
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- Michael Thomas examines fencing and swordplay in 90s retro video games. He looks at early arcade games through to the early attempts at introducing greater realism in terms of techniques and impact on the human body. This video was originally included in TMIH Ep 1, and has been uploaded by popular demand as a stand alone video.
The features video games consoles include Sega Megadrive/Genesis, Sega Dreamcast, Sony Playstation (1) and the Neo Geo AES.
Also... bushido blade has a First Person mode that gives you the perspective of the actual fencer.
It's a game that deserves a lot more love.
laughs in Bushido Blade.
Good game! - Michael
Throws dagger......
Yeah! Making this vid was a good idea. I watched the whole thing. The games you selected for this vid are really good classics too.
Dreamcast Soul Calibur! That game is epic. And it's the only 3d game from namco, and the only Soul Calibur game, to get a perfect 10 out of 10 from critics. Namco really outdid themselves with that game. And the combat system is really innovative too.👍😃
I still have to play Bushido Blade. That is the only game in that list that I haven't played yet. 1 hit and you lose. Scary.
Thanks for the feedback. I hope to do more like this, but in much more detail if people want it. I've got a meaty fighting game collection for my retro consoles, and I agree, SC on the DC is the only way to fly. Have you seen all the Atomiswave games now working on the DC over the last two weeks?
BB can result in fights that last hours until somebody lands a killing blow!
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
Yeah, it was a nice surprise. That is good news that those atomiswave games, are running on the dreamcast. Samurai Shodown 6, Neo Geo Battle Collosium, Metal Slug 6, KOF and a few others. I'm curious to see what other atomiswave games, will be playable as the months go by.
An hours long Bushido Blade battle? That sounds nerve wrecking, especially if both players refuse to close in on their opponent, in fear of getting hit and losing the match.😂
@@brandonfarfan1978 Yeah, and you can use the terrain to move around, get better positions and try to work around them. It can be draining, especially if you finally get into position and then press the change guard button instead of attack by mistake!
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
Wooah! In a game like that, it would really suck to make such a mistake, by pressing the wrong button, when you see an opportunity to attack. Worse, if the battle has been going on for over an hour. x_X
I liked how you presented those, focusing more on whether the gameplay mechanics evoked the principles and motions of swordsmanship, rather than whether or not the action on screen looked "realistic" or historically accurate. A game like Samurai Shodown looks nothing like a real fight, but it still contains many core principles of sword fighting, even if they manifest in funky ways sometimes (like jumping around frantically to manage distance and position). Those games managed to capture the general idea of fighting while wrapping it in beautiful, exciting and mechanically functional packages, something more realistic games sometimes don't manage to do quite as well.
In the same way, many people I played basketball with over the years have a lot more fun playing NBA Jam than they do playing NBA 2K21. Sometimes, it's really just about capturing that idea and making it really fun.
I’d never thought of it before, but this made me realize how 1982’s Swashbuckler for the Apple ][ laid the ground-work for all the future 2D fighters. It’s even more amazing to me today than it was then what they accomplished on that hardware.
It's a really good game, actually. And of cause Prince of Persia was originally an Apple II game as well.
So excited for hellish quart
Played the free demo? - Michael
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing I absolutely did, I spent the next few hema practices predominantly fighting with the most heavily curved sabre I have. It was good fun.
Great topic!
Thanks. Would you like to see more on gaming and swordplay? I'd like to go into it in more detail but need feedback first. - Michael
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing welcome. For sure. Sure you could come up with all kinds of content pertaining to both subjects.
Here's a short review of Golden Axe's swordplay, from memory.
GA is probably the best beat'em up of all time. The mounts, the elves, the character, it's great. But best of all was the combat.
*Damage and Combos*
In GA, there are a few combos you can pull off, there's a special attack to clear enemies, a leaping downward thrust, and these vary between the three characters. But I do mean a few... as GA doesn't have the emphasis on complex combos of other fighting games. This may disappoint some players, but from an immersion and swordplay standpoint, this is ideal. It's weird when you rack up a 50-hit combo with a sword. GA doesn't have highly fatal combat, you still have to hit enemies a number of times and knock them down, so it's hardly a realistic damage model.
*Blocking*
As an aside, blocking was added in GA3. I mostly played GA2 and 1, so I can't comment too much on this. The enemies could be really brutal on the harder difficulties, blocking all of your attacks and using plenty of jump attacks to surprise you.
Not sure they got the feel right with that... though I do like the idea of making defence a bigger factor in combat.
*Group Combat*
The group dynamic is where GA really shines. Because it takes several hits to knock down an enemy, and so far as I remember you don't do much damage until you knock them over, this means you need enough time to get a few swings in. And enemies are fairly smart in this game... they'll charge at you from the other side of the screen knock you down, just like in Buhurt. So you have to watch your back, try and line up your enemies "like a string of fishes," as Musashi put it, so you have enough time to cut one down and move onto the next.
To help with this, they have some good mechanics for group management. Charge attacks to knock an enemy down and move quickly, leaping attacks to knock them down or avoid a charging enemy, and of course the grappling and throwing. While the leaping attacks aren't realistic, it kind of works as a stand-in for footwork against an incoming attacker.
The charge and grappling, however, are good representations. You can beat on an enemy if you catch him in a grab (be careful, sometimes they grab you), and when you see other enemies coming to his rescue, you can throw him into the other enemies. While that kind of spectacular Judo throw is exaggerated, grappling enemies and using them as shields by shoving/throwing them into other enemies is a major component of fighting a group.
*Movement and Pacing*
Overall, I'd say the pacing of GA is the best part, the number of hits it takes and the slightly slow movement speed, which contrasts with the blinding speed of charge attacks. This really helps to emphasize tactical movement and positioning, and it feels really immersive. In fact, it's fairly realistic.
When fighting out in the wilderness, in mountains and forests and ruins and all kinds of places, moving too fast is a good way to trip or slip, and fall on your face. Even on good, flat ground, the ideal is to move at a smooth and steady rate. Too much momentum, and you can't react. Too much of a jog, and you have poor footing for when you need to strike or parry. So, even if exaggerated, the slow movement feels good.
And what about the blinding charges? Realistically, there is a risk of slipping, and sometimes an enemy does go over a cliff... but charges do happen, and they can be VERY fast. There isn't any telegraphing for the charge, which is a bit unfair, as it does take a split second to really get running... but still, it captures the fear of someone charging at you from behind (again, like Buhurt).
*Multi-Player*
Due to those reasons, GA has the best multiplayer of any Beat'em'up I've played. It is only 2-player, but the size of the maps really wouldn't allow for 3, especially due to one all-important factor: Friendly Fire.
The FF in GA is a bit exaggerated, again, since people are reasonably good at not hitting their friends. Still, I'm glad they have it, as it forces you to position yourselves wisely, in support of each other, and it tempts you to make all sorts of realistic blunders.
Your pal gets knocked down, so you rush over to help him, only to get knocked down yourself in your haste.
You see your friend being beaten down, so you move over to hit the enemy, but end up beating him at the same time.
You throw an enemy, only to hit your ally with him.
And sometimes, with practice, you really master it and pull it off well. You throw an enemy, and your friend performs a charging attack, hitting him before he hits the ground!
Due to how solid GA is, the MP is truly excellent, and possibly some of the best Local MP gameplay there is--if you can coordinate with your partner, that is. And while it's not perfectly realistic, it sure brings that feeling a lot better than many games I've tried.
*Conclusion*
Have you played Golden Axe? Actually, it doesn't matter if you have or not... go and play Golden Axe right now! If you have a friend to play it with, it's a great way to spend time at home.
Whether just for fun, or to appreciate a minimalist 16-bit take on group combat, I recommend it.
I played GA 1 and 2 to death with Nick in the 90s. We never got around to 3 though. I will locate it, play it and review it ASAP! - Michael
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Great! Feel free to use anything from my review, I hope it was a good conversation starter.
Most interesting fighting system imo was in Die by the Sword ... too bad it was also borderline unplayable(at least for me!).
Agreed, and at some point I'll make it the focus of a video! - Michael
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing You know your games! There was also another hidden gem from 1999. Drakan - Order of the Flame.
Very cool stuff... if by any chance you happen to have resources to help with the NeoGeo cabinet I have coming my way in a week - boy I'd sure appreciate it!
Check out Blades of Gory, Endless Knight and Kiai Resonance on Steam for some fun sword fighting action.
Try Hellish Quart! You won't be disappointed
>thinks back to medievils 360 degree spin
dont think so tbh
Well with a montante You would usually swipe on wide trajectories probably even circles when you use it in the crowd control way
@@velazquezarmouries unless your spine is on a ball joint you arent pulling that one off tbh
@@animeboitiddies6146 obviously but with some creative license and tweaking the angle of the cut a bit you could make a full circle or even using it as an olympic hammer
The advantages of being a reanimated skeleton!
...Err, no Prince of Persia/Pirates? There were some other pretty good fencing arcade games that could've been mentioned. Sword of the Samurai also had decent example of swordplay for duels and group combat. Also, why so much talk about the graphics and the general gameplay? I expected to hear an indepth analysis of the feel and tactics of the swordplay. Many of those games were from the late 80s, yet they seem to have had a better take on swordplay than the ones shown (save Bushdio Blade).
In the end, we got three different fighting games, a beat'em up, and Bushdio Blade.
It’s a short video to test the water. If people like it I’ll go into a lot more detail. This was limited to 90s consoles only. If you want more, I’ll go all in 😀 - Michael
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing That would be very interesting to see. A retrospective series on swordplay in games would be great. You could look at Ahoy's videos for inspiration (of course, you don't need to go full-blown documentary like he does).
Are you familiar with the games I mentioned? I can probably name a few that would be interesting to try, with some unique swordplay, if you like. I was looking at Taito's "Gladiator", or, "Ougon no Shiro", before, which had some pretty need direction use of a shield and sword, as well as armour.
There's also Warrior from 1979.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Posted a little review of Golden Axe. Thought I'd mention in case you were interested.
@@vanivanov9571 Thanks, just read it. Great series.
@@vanivanov9571 Yeah, that sounds like a plan. I'm limited by the consoles I have, but if the games are available for the following systems, let me know. If I don't own them, I'll buy them and give them a through testing. My next video is nearly ready, and it concerns VR sword combat.
My current games:
cloud.collectorz.com/starcrusader/games?folder=1&filterValue=none
Console list:
Sega Megadrive
Sega Mega CD
Neo Geo AES
Neo Geo CD
Sega Saturn
Sega Dreamcast
PC Engine/Duo
PS2
samurai shodown 2 was great
It really was. I've got 1-4 on the NeoGeo AES. - Michael