How I fitted an Air Source Heat Pump ASHP: Samsung Gen6 5kW
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- čas přidán 11. 07. 2024
- This is my experience self-installing a 5kW Samsung Gen 6 Air to Water Heat Pump and a 150L hot water cylinder in a 200-year-old terrace house in the UK.
UPDATE: Winter performance update video is now live: • Air Source Heat Pump 1...
The system is monitored using a Level 3 OpenEnergyMonitor Heat Pump monitoring system: shop.openenergymonitor.com/he...
Here is real world monitoring data from the system: emoncms.org/samsung5kw
This system is also listed on: heatpumpmonitor.org
To maximise performance the system was installed 'open loop' without any buffer tank or low loss header. Initial performance of the system looks good, (COP 4-5) but the real test will be this winter, I will make a follow-up video in the spring to document how the system performed over the winter... • Air Source Heat Pump 1...
*Clarification*: In the video I mistakenly said the total floor area of the house is 30m2, however this is just for the ground floor. Total floor area including both ground and 1st floor is 70m2.
*Heat loss calculators:
openenergymonitor.org/heatlossjs
heatpunk.co.uk
Excellent article on correctly sizing an ASHP: www.energy-stats.uk/what-size...
**Note: I'm not a professional plumber or heating engineer, this video is just documenting my experience, it should not be used as any sort of instructional video.* - Věda a technologie
Im a heating engineer with over 20 years experience & im not sure what you do for a living but i would seriously consider a career obviously if the moneys right in this as you've done a great job here & should be extremely proud. good luck with what ever you do in life
Thank you sir
Keen to touch base and advise on my house system
Great job
What a noisy monstrosity!
Done a great job but some questions.Hell of a lot to go wrong and maintain. Especially if you sell house on. Heat pump location. Did you need planning permission. Also.. a strategic question. Why doesn't govt go down the hybrid route like cars. IE add a heat pump to existing systems. So heat pump is main system for heating. But gas boiler kicks in at a set level such as 16 degrees internal temp. So you know the house does t drop below a certain temperature. Thus you end up paying for a heat pump and new radiators. And a shared valve system for boiler and heat pump. Also how was the heat pump last 2 weeks with cold weather. What temp was the house internally overnight. And how much electricity did you use this month. Ie what was the cost.
Great work Glyn, can't wait get the post winter update!
Glyn, well done, this is excellent information and very well presented and filmed. Fantastic to see the whole process and the challenges and your honesty, I love sustainable devlopment and I'm very impressed with your skills and abilty and look forward to seeing your report in the Spring 🙂I wish you good luck to you and your family in all you do and your future career.
Congrats for new baby!!
Always nice to see someone having fun with a pipe slice.
That's a really nicely put together video. Good pace, good amount of content and some nice pauses as you dive into the details that are most interesting. Great work Glyn (and army of helpers including a very patient camera person :) )
Thanks! Mr tripod was very patient 😅
So useful for me - just delving into the possibilities and your vid gives a great explanation into this greener alternative. Thanks for posting (bloody great).
Great video, very interesting watching your installation experience
This is fantastic to see the whole process start to finish and all the considerations you took. That data capturing stuff should be standard for everyone as it must be so good for people to see the actual COP over time. Very jealous of your skills and that you were able to do this yourself. Wishing you a very low cost and warm winter and looking forward to seeing your results in Spring :D
Plumbing/DIY isn't rocket science. A lot of people could do this, given a bit of swotting-up. If you use plastic pipe instead of copper that removes a big chunk of the practical difficulty (soldering plumbing does take a bit of practice to do reliably).
Excellent video Glyn and great work. Well done for doing such a well thought through job. We are of course all looking forward to seeing your results.. it will be very interesting.
Cheers, thanks a lot for all your help
I’ve heard the Name John Cantor
I thought it was just Welsh mythology
Nice one - good to see some faces from names from OpenEnergy notoriety 👍
Very impressive Glyn, love your diy skills and work ethic, hope you have a toasty house this winter and the system performs as you expect, 👍
Thanks, this video was actually filmed last year. Here's an update video with how the system performed over the last winter czcams.com/video/kkNx2oSO-S4/video.html
I'm so pleased you shared this. It's exactly what I'm after. I love an update on the winter performance
Thanks, Here's a link to live data so far from the unit emoncms.org/samsung5kw. It's been performing very well and keeping the house nice and warm
Impressive you took this on, clearly you have some great knowledge. Nicely explained too👍🏻👍🏻
Came to this after watching your winter results video. Amazing job, well done!
Thanks!
You're a skilled man Glynn and that's a beautiful family you have there
Glyn first of all congratulations for achieving your install. You have likely done a whole lot more research on the subject than many ‘professional’ installers and you clearly have a holistic knowledge of the principles, theory, controls and instrumentation as well as the ‘geekery’ ability to get it all ‘talking’ to each other. I really enjoyed the video and look forward to the update.
looking forward to your next update. Brilliant install/report
It started out with me thinking that I might do that, but as you progressed in the work I started to have doubts. Excellent job young man, all the best to you and yours.
Thanks, it was a good challenge. I'm sure you could figure it out!
Brake it down into small parts and don’t rush. Plan each step.
Just finished fitting a 5kw air to water heat pump to existing boiler. I bought the heat pump second hand for £180. It comes on for 4hours a day 10 to 2pm as the 6kw Solar array is at its peak at that time. I don’t have the knowledge to fit a cylinder yet but I will do by summer. The heat pump is mounted in the loft so no one see the condenser. I’ve made so many mistakes but it’s a learning experience. My system is way simpler than your system it only consists of a two way motorised valve, automatic air vent and that’s it. All prv, expansion vessel and safety related stuff is in the vallaint condensing boiler. It’s working dude just tweaking system and balancing radiators now and then. Total cost around £400 to £500 not including solar. Your project is on another level dude, you are one smart cookie 👍
From the outdoor air
It’s been a few weeks now I’ve had it installed, it’s in the loft, loft rafters are not insulated so plenty of air flow. These are my pros and cons
Pros
Uses wasted heat that escapes from house to loft.
When it is sunny even when it is minus temps the roof tiles get hot and is used by the heat pump so better cop.
No one on my street knows my house is heated by a heat pump.
No noise virtually silent
Cons
It was so hard to get the pump into loft, I used a £8 pulley to pull it up slowly on my own.
Any leaks you will be in trouble I used three layers or leak protection. Self made drip trays that are plumbed into drain.
At night it can get really cold so less efficient.
My heat pump is really old over 10 years so only manages to get up to around 45 when really cold.
The house is quite large 150 m2 and a 5kw is way too small. I plan to get anothe heat pump in future and use both together in tandem or one for the water and one for heating. Why not for £180.
Best of all I can heat my home for free when sun is shining with no emissions what soever. I use the heat generated to store into 150mm ufh 60m2 concrete slab and slowly release the heat over 2-3 days.
I will use the cold air in summer to control overheating in the attic by heating hot water. This summer was brutal.
Hope this helps
@@manikdesign Ah right, I didn't realise the air intake was from within the loft! I can't see how this will work! A heat pump needs a lot of ambient air movement to extract heat from the air. Why you want to be heat pump to be hidden? They're permitted planning developments, so no issues to install outside. You will need to be careful that you're not making your house colder. Have you got a roof window you could use to duct the air flow?
@@GlynHudsonI had the whole roof redone with black concrete tiles and breathable membrane, air flow is not a problem I’m more worried if there are ever any leaks up there. It’s minus 4 up there now and all is working. Water temp is 41c. Loft floor is only 100mm insulated and it’s still working, imagine when I put 300mm insulation, my house will be too hot and I will have to leave windows open
5 months have past and a water cylinder have also been fitted. It takes around an hour or 1.5kw of power to heat up the cylinder to 55deg 125litre tank. So far still working well.
can't wait to see the winter tests!
This. Honestly, if heat pumps are at least getting a COP of 4 in the winter, that's really good
Superb video. You got mad skills bro
Brilliant video there! Great to see someone install one that isn't a shill for a particular company.
Nice one - looking forward to an update on how it has gone over the last 6-8 months with the heat pump....especially thru the winter. Thanks.
Update video is live! Sorry it took so long czcams.com/video/kkNx2oSO-S4/video.html
Great video, thank you, great to see your full process
Really intresting video, great to see a non pro doing this kind of install.
Highly skilled, very impressive. Thanks for sharing.
Great video 👍 You are very talented.
Excellent video! Great quality of work! All very informative - thanks. I wish I was 30 years younger, I would definitely have a crack at this but unfortunately my old bones and joints complain too much now!
Thanks, plumbing is very tough on the knees. Hats off to plumbers, they have the spent most of each day kneeling down
I thought, he's a climber. And it turns out you are! I'm installing an ASHP in a new build on my property near Loch Ness, but with underfloor heating. Your vid is very informative and the paintings on the walls are intrigueing!
I don't understand much of this, but it's still a fantastic video! Great job sharing, thanks 👍🏼
Much more informative than a lot of videos made by professional heat pump installers that I've watched.
I picked the correct video to watch here for sure. Very detailed and thorough.
I am looking at adding a heat pump to an existing vented thermal store system already heated by; solar PV immersion, wood gasifying stove, gas condensing boiler and mains immersion (as a backup). Your reply to comments has also been useful regarding integrating to a vented system with a heat exchanger. Thank you. Looking forward to the next video.
Update video is live! Sorry it took so long czcams.com/video/kkNx2oSO-S4/video.html
A really good and honest video which is helpful to anyone considering undertaking their own project. Glyn mate, not to take anything away from this great vid...you need to have a second safety diverter on the cylynder to comply with safety regulations.
Thanks, the cylinder has both a PRV and inlet pressure relief valve
Really interesting, and hugely impressive. Thanks!
long time no see; Great job Glyn, look forward to further video's 👍🏻 I be going Air-source HP soon, but I think I'll be paying to have it fitted; Colwyn Bay.
Wow great work and great video thanks. Very interesting putting heat pump high on the wall might ask if we have one installed as not got much outside space too . Very interesting to see your winter cop and your scop and costs with this winters high electricity prices !
Thanks, here's a link to view live data from the unit, SCOP so far is 4.3 emoncms.org/samsung5kw
Awesome video Glyn!
Thanks a lot for your help! No chance could I lift the unit up on my own 😂
I have a heat pump and love it . But unlike you I was not confidant enough to fit it myself. I really enjoyed watching this video. And your other European adventures 👍
Great job love your enthusiasm for renewables, I’m exactly the same and excited to be a part of the change. I run a heating company and we’ve recently got into the heat pump industry and it’s changing the game if it’s done right but it’s takes a lot to design the perfect system. I can see you’ve can a very good idea about the maths behind it. All I would say is y plan three port valve systems are old technology that should be updated to suit the modern tech you have
Thanks, great to hear you're getting into heat pumps. Y-plan on an HP is totally different to a Y-plan on a system boiler, HPs have hot water priority and weather compensation built-in in as standard, so they run a different flow temperature for central heating compared to hot water, checkout the live data from my system here: emoncms.org/samsung5kw, you can see the flow rate increase during a DHW cycle. I far as I understand there's no reason not to use a Y-plan for HP.
You the man @glynHudson 😀👌✨️✨️💯🤯🤯
Lovely tidy job. I like the destrat pump idea.
If you do fit a destart pump it needs to be a 'bronze' pump which is rated for potable water since it's in contact with the water that comes out of the tap. I forgot to mention this in the video.
Fantastic job….great video too. I’d love to do this at some point in the future.
Fantastic job, very clever, liked and subbed 👍
Impressive! You have been busy.
Very snug well done 👍🏿pete the cabby essex
Brilliant...absolutely brilliant 👏
Well done Glyn great work
Thanks Ken 👍
Well done and looking fwd for the upcoming video .
Update video is live! Sorry it took so long czcams.com/video/kkNx2oSO-S4/video.html
Wonderful job
Wow! What did you say after "disconnect the gas for the last time"? You kinda lost me after that 🤣 Amazing skills, clever chap, fascinating video thanks
Thanks for posting .... btw ..."Perfectly safe" to remove the gas boiler, especially wearing those safety shoes !
Absolutely brilliant, well done. You should form your own company if you have not already done so and train others. There is a dearth of companies with engineers who are capable of doing what you have achieved. I have been looking for years into ASHP ever since the RHI was introduced many years ago and still haven’t found any company I am confident in to do a pucker job, maybe Octopus might fill this void as I was very impressed with their survey but wanted to wait till they got some installs under their belt.
Thanks, I would recomend looking for a Certified Heat Geek. Those engineers know their stuff.
@@GlynHudson Those guys charge mega bucks as they're used to working on millionaire's houses. I'd avoid them unless you could get them on a friend's rate.
I am plumber most of my profession time I have spend for electrical heating installation and repair work . Now I am doing course for heat pump installation . I like your video cause its give me confidence for heat pump course . good luck
Brilliant . Great vid and explanation.
Great video! Thanks for sharing! :)
Excellent video - well done. Will be publishing this locally since some of us want to convert. Looking forward to the winter statistics.
I Impressive and interesting work, well done!
Great works and enthusiasm, all works well planned and executed.
It's quite funny when someone not in the know usually sees the plant room they comment " what the hell is that mess "
Anyone who has some knowledge usually comments " thats neat and well planned ".
One thing i noticed is regs require 2 x 2 port valves for safety resons.When 3 port is used you must still have a 2port valve with safety controls and manual reset wired through it beween valve and pressurised cylinder.
Thanks! Those regs don't apply to heat pumps, my heat pump is not capable of generating a flow temperature higher than 60C so there's no danger of over heating the cylinder. The marjorty of heat pumps are installed with 3-port diverter valves.
@GlynHudson thanks for the reply, live and learn etc, my angle was based off water G regs and the immersion heater set point not the heat pump.
Once again great install and wonderful presentation/edit, looking forward to updates .
For not being an installer, very impressed with your installation and knowledge. Well done
Hi Glyn. If you ever take the cylinder out for any reason, I would strongly suggest you swap out those plastic ball valves for your shower. I have had two of those plastic ones exactly the same spontaneously split in half. Luckily I was in the same room when it happened, otherwise it would have been a really damaging flood. They happened 5 years apart, but stupidly I didn't swap out both when the first failure occurred.
Thanks for the tip!
Brilliant video, thanks for uploading and you must be really proud of the fantastic job that you did.
A useful thing to test for leaks is a ROTHENBERGER DRY PRESSURE TEST KIT. It connects temporarily to an open pipe with a pushfit connection. Any other open ends are bunged up with MONUMENT TOOLS NYLON DRAIN PLUGS 6 PIECES..
You then get a car tyre foot pump and put in a bit of pressure. Leave it for a while and see if the built-in pressure gauge goes down. If it does, find the leak and fix it. It saves the hassle of water leaking everywhere and not being able to redo solder joints that are now wet. (ps you can test small bits of the heating circuit as you build it)
Also if you have any non soldered joints/fittings that keep leaking use Fernox LS-X leak sealer. It will fix pretty much everything.
All the above were invaluable when I ripped out all the poor original plumbing and radiators on my central heating and did a proper job like yourself..
Thanks, that's useful advice. I did do a air pressure test before filling up the system by just fitting a bike valve stem into a compression fitting, your dry pressure test kit sounds like a good solution.
I would be very wary of using use Fernox leak sealer since it could block up the small passageways inside the heat pump heat exchanger which could reduce performance.
Nice work Glyn,
I have recently been studying this subject for a possible future project i am planning, I would be grateful to hear of your findings through a north Wales winter.
Have you been expanding your family ??
Thanks for the film Ed
Excellent.
The intro frightened the life out of me! You said total floor area of 30sq.m, this totally threw my calcs on our 270year old 80sq.m two bed, then I added up totals in your heat calc sheets, it seems you have around 70sq.m. I look forward to your spring update as I'm considering a 6kw system, but 'everyone' says it won't work on a house like ours.
Yes, it's about 65-70 m^2, I corrected this on the description. I got this wrong in the commentary since 30m^2 I's the area of the ground floor. It's been working very well, house has been lovely and warm and average COP for heating and DHW over the winter has been 4.2 which is very good. It's one of the best performing installations on heatpumpmonitor.org
@@GlynHudson Very interesting info, going through that list looking for properties which might have similar heating requirements to ours, and it seems doable despite all the naysayers who advise me it's not possible on a house like ours.
Looking at some of your data, do you run the heating 'constantly' i.e. you aim to keep home heated throughout day and night, instead of the 'traditional' burst of heat in morning and night? From what I can make out esp. on old not very well insulated houses this seems the way to go, and indeed this is what we do with our present multifuel heating, it 'ticks over' 24/7 then ramps up in evening. I know someone how had a heat pump in a rental and it was taken out due to not working, but from what I can work out they tried to use the 'traditional' blast of heat morning and evening.
@@fredbloggs72 it's definitely possible, heat pumps can work efficiently in any house had long as the system is correctly designed. Yes, we run the heatpump at low flow temperature most of the day. However, my wife is on maternity leave so is home most of the day so this makes sense. If we were both our during the day we would set a set back temperature a couple of degrees lower than the evening setpoint. Same goes for overnight. Agree, older properties with large thermal mass work well with this approach. Asking a heatpump to deliver a very hot 'blast' of heat twice per day will result in much lower efficiency.
30m2 for a 2 story, 2 bed end of terrace with an extension? I doubt it!!
But impressive work.
Edit: I've just seen in the description that youve addressed this and it is in fact 70m2.
Magnificent video! Just leaves me fealing there is huge complexity in heat pump installation, when compared to, say Gas. Yes I do understand the reasons for and against, but my point is that with huge complexity there is almost always huge complications when things fail. And, therefore, the associated cost.
You're not going to have any engineer 'call out' issues though - you can do it yourself !
Hi Tim, thanks for your comment. The two things which made this job more complicated than an average install was the fact the outdoor unit was wall-mounted at up high, and I fitted some extra monitoring kit. Apart from that everything else is identical to a gas or oil system boiler install with an unvented cylinder. There's not really much to go wrong that can't be easily replaced e.g three-port valves and pumps are stocked in every plumbing merchant.
V interesting! Would love an update to this video going through any snags in the last 4 months since installation and also the performance during this fairly cold winter
Thanks. Update video will be coming in the spring. The heat pump has been working perfectly, the house has been lovey and warm despite some cold snaps down to -5C. It's been getting an average COP of 4.2 which is excellent. Here's a link to live and historic data from the unit emoncms.org/samsung5kw
Great job.
You did a very good job, solder ring Yorkshire type fittings would have made the job easier for you
Not a bad install for a non heating engineer. Bravo.
Hope you've got your unvented ticket though when you installed that cylinder 😉
Hi Glyn,
very impressive job, you did there. I just noticed one small thing (if I understood your setup correctly): the expansion vessel for the pottable water on the hot water cylinder isn't flow-through, so it creates a big dead zone. This could be a breeding ground for legionella. In my country this would against code, but I don't know about your country. We either have a flow-through expansion vessel on the the "cold" side of the cylinder or none at all and just let the pressure relief valve handle it.
Hi Jan, thanks for your comment. I've never seen a flow-through expansion vessel installed in the UK. The expansion vessel I installed was included with the cylinder by the manufacture. The vessel is installed on the cold water inlet, so it should never experience temperatures high enough to grow legionella. However, flow though expansion vessels so sound like they could be a good idea. What country is this code?
@@GlynHudson I am from Germany. I assume the room where the expansion vessel is, isn't below 20°, especially in the summer, because it isn't flow through the water will be around the temperature of the room.
I also heard that today it is advised to also insulate the cold water pipe and keeps it sperate from the warmwater and heating pipes, to keep the water longer cool. But I don't think it's required.
But I am not an expert on that.
Quality video.
Skilllllzzzzz!
Great video!
good effort Glyn - absolutely no need for PTFE and silicone over Loctite though :)
Agree, I later realised why I had issues getting the the heat meter to seal, the thread on the body of the heatpump is not BSP, I should have used a flat face union with rubber washer to convert to BSP then use an iorn to convert to compression fitting
Just had a ECO4 air source heat pump fitted and realise this is not a job for a plumber but a hydraulic engineer.. Flow/pipe size/pipe insulation is critical to the system working correctly.. With a SCOP of 3 or higher
Great video, looking fwd to seeing some more stats over the winter. Did we get an introduction to a mini Glyn too?😁👍
Yes, massive congrats to you both if that is the case!
Glad to see you mounted it in a sunne spot. Not something Ofoten considered.
Glyn, I was impressed. It is the first time that I've seen a heat pump install that I fully understood thanks to your insight! I twice had to run to my system after seeing ideas on your installation. First my Eddi doesn't have a temperature indicator, I went & checked, great idea, not quite sure how to do it! Then your de-stratification pump too! Again I went to look. My son suggested that I just use the Eddi circuit 2 to operate it so when Max Temp[ Reached appears it pumps then switches back to Eddi heating. I have a simple spare top & bottom pipe I could use to do that as well. What do you think?
You need the relay sensor board for Eddie whuch has a temperature sensor input. Eddie actually has a destrat pump option on one of the relays which automatically turns on the pump when the tank gets to temperature. It's mentioned in the Eddie manual. Make sure to use a 'bronze' pump whuch is rated for potable water
Good grief! You must have massive 'cojones' to take on a project like that, and a brain to match! I've only just started taking an interest in heat pumps and I had no idea you could power traditional radiators and water tank storage as all I'd seen was air con type units running in houses. I'm surprised you didn't use plastic pipes for much of the install as soldering (and even compression) can increase potential for leaks, not to mention the hassle of bending and feeding copper pipe, but I'm sure you have your reasons for that even though it seems to add more hassle to the project. I hope now that it's no longer 30 deg. outside it's doing the business and I look forward to your follow up. Thanks so much for posting this as I'm sure the filming and editing probably doubled the effort of an already complex job.
Thanks! Monoblock Air to water heat pumps like this one are very common particularly in the UK. In other countries where they have more need for cooling in the summer air to air (A2A) heat pumps e.g A/C are more common. If done correctly a soldered copper pipe is less likely to leak and more robust long term than plastic. Cooper also has a larger internal bore for the same external bore than plastic, so it can handle more flow. It's been quite cold in the UK this winter, we had temperatures down to -5C, the heat pump worked great keeping the house nice and warm and getting good performance. I will be doing an update video soon, in the meantime here's a link to live and historic performance data from my heat pump emoncms.org/samsung5kw
Very Nice!
Well im impressed😁
Hi Glyn, great video and excellent piece of work on the installation.
Question - did you consider an air to air heat pump (is that the right term?) I've seen some suggested that can heat in winter and cool in summer - if augmented by solar I think cooling in summer has a lot to say for itself these days...
Thanks, I did briefly consider A2A but living in North Wales cooling is not a really needed, I also need DHW heating which A2A cannot do. However, I think A2A could be a good solution in some situations. Heat Geek have some videos on this.
Incredible video, great job on the installation you put a lot of hard work into that and it shows. The COP you showed at the end definitely was impressive and is higher than any data sheets show for equipment I have access to in the US. Especially considering leaving water temp of 55C (but looking closer you explained you were heating the DHW tank starting at room temp, and this is only pre-heating supplemented by resistance heat I think). Do you have a link to the data sheet for the Samsung unit you are using, I'd love to compare. Just finished installation of my own air to water heat pump and like you monitoring the performance over the summer. At the moment the heat pump does 100% of the DHW heating up to a tank temperature of 52C and doesn't have immersion heaters so it forces the heat pump to run in a higher temperature a lot of the time to top up the tank temperature. When I need a new DHW tank I'll likely switch to a setup like yours, but curious if you ever calculated the COP to get the tank up to full temp including the immersion heat input? My COP to warm a tank from about 42C to 52C is around 3.5 in the summer (top up after a shower). Again, awesome video and work, cheers!
Thanks for your kind comment. I've finally published the update video on the HP which should help answer some of your questions. I don't use immersion for DHW
czcams.com/video/kkNx2oSO-S4/video.html
As an EV & ASHP owner, I feel load shifting is key - I have Octopus Go Faster for 5 hours from 1:30-6:30am. I charge the car first then the hot water and then heat the house with ASHP for the last period up to 6:30am. I let the Tesla Powerwall sort itself out and it normally charges to 100%. This way by the end of my off peak period I have a fully charged car and home battery, hot water AND a house at 20 degrees… I then use whatever solar is produced for daytime leaving the powerwall to cover the dark evening for cooking and keeping us warm. It isn’t really cold enough yet to really test this system but my hope is that with my well insulated house I can minimise peak power usage keeping winter costs to minimum.
Some here, I schedule DHW cycle for my Octopus Go period. I've also got a battey which is due to be installed in a few weeks, very excited about this since it will enable the ASHP to run fully from off-peak power
You got me thinking about freeze protection. I agree about not wanting glycol for the loop to the monobloc ASHP, and I definitely decided not to use much glycol in my indoor hydronic loop which so far has a large tank volume (85gal tank, +system volume, help with storing available heat either on good solar days or limited off-peak grid period), and would be very expensive ~$100/5gal ~50%*100gal ~50gal glycol = ~$1000, doa!. I had been thinking to use glycol in the lower volume of water in the loop out to the ASHP outside., but maybe just the FPVs like you have. With those FPVs as located, two of them, if both open, will the small freeze preventing flow only come to the valves from indoors, and _not_ go through the HP, and thus potentially freeze. Do you want one valve at one side of the ASHP, so the small flow will come from both directions of the loop and some will be going through the heatpump?
I’m going for a single one, located right at the ASHP, at the lowest point of the system. I balked at Caleffi prices so got mine from AliExpress.
Great video - lots of graft evident here but worth it for the result! You can put the guns away now... ;)
Thanks, it was a 40 degC heat wave!
Very impressive. I have an even smaller much older quarry mid terrace house, also in North Wales. We are currently on an aging mains gas combi-boiler in need of replacement. it still gives us hot water but heating no longer functions. I also have a woodburner. I was considering a mini- split air to air heat pump with either a separate air source domestic water heater or possibly solar hot water and possibly some PV to supplement the mini split. Still considering various options. I was thinking to get away from a "wet" heating system if possible. Challenges include solid random stone walls, somewhat difficult to drill holes in without instability and lack of space for a hot water tank. Your video has given me a lot to think about how an air source heat pump "wet" system might still be a possible option. Be good to see your follow up after this cold winter in North Wales (so far!).
Thanks for your comment. A2A systems can be very efficient and are much easier to install, especially for a small house. Although unfortunately they won't be able to heat hot water
@@GlynHudson
Thanks Glyn.
Agreed A2A "mini splits" seem much easier to fit for heating and competitive on cost, not sure if DIY systems are available. Hot water supply will still be an issue, however, especially for available space. Options for domestic hot water I'm considering are a combination of economy 7 supply and PV to phase change tankless heat store (Sunamp or other) Or a dedicated heat pump water only heater which seem to be available. However I'm not sure if these pump heat from outside or from warmer areas inside the house which might make sense during summer but not in winter in UK/Wales. I will continue research!
@@malcolmnew8973 you can get heat pump hot water heaters which duct air from outside, there are American models which take heat from inside, but this is not normally wanted in the UK! This guy seems to know his stuff on HP hot water heaters: czcams.com/video/gBh510zhvAA/video.html
@@GlynHudson Thanks Glyn, just what I needed!
@@GlynHudson I've checked out your link suggested in previous reply. Very useful thanks. Also he mentioned a popular European system; a 4 way multisplit system with 3 air to air heaters and the fourth adapted to a small hot water cylinder which would be perfect for me, sadly not available in the UK, not sure when if ever!
Looks a nice job Iam just working on a training room plumbed up 3 units for show dakin and Panasonic for plumbers to see I work for a plumbers merchant we are having a open day 20th jan
Terrific video. Thank you. I am retired now, but have done a few central heating installs over the years. I love your youthful energy and enthusiasm. I have been exasperated with weeping compression joints many a time over the years. In recent times, I have mostly worked with plastic pipe. I have a holiday apartement in Portugal which I recently replumbed entirely in plastic, ditched the old bottle gas boiler, and went fully electric. May I ask why you have used copper. It looks lovely, and you have done a great job, but wouldn't plastic have been easier? I am old school and love copper, but, my God, it was much easier working in plastic.
Hi Peter, thanks for your comment. For the best efficiency a ASHP requires high flow rate and low resistance pipework. The main reason I choose to use copper is the internal bore dimension is larger than plastic, especially since plastic required inserts that restrict the flow further. Also, regulations require an unvented cylinder to be plumbed in copper at least for the first few meters. Plastic pipework is great for some things, I've used plastic pipework for the hot and cold water feeds in our kitchen and bathroom.
@@GlynHudson yes, I agree. I'd forgotten about that. The fittings you get in Portugal are even more restrictive than those in the UK. Fine if you have mains water pressure to drive the flow, but probably not if you just have a circulator. I get it.
Great video, but would be great to see a plumbing diagram, i was getting lost looking at so many pipes!
I'm with you regarding changing pipes and upgrade radiators
I will get a heat pump eventually however my biggy is air tightness first. Well, the very first step is to add more solar panels and more batteries
I'm making my house air tight. Then I'll get an MVHR after saving up
After that I'll get triple glazing
Then I'll make my radiators bigger and upgrade the pipework too.
I might then also get a heat pump water cylinder
Then, and only then I'll get a heat pump. I think a lot of reasons why people aren't happy with heat pumps is because their house might be very well insulated but it isn't necessarily air tight
Their radiators might also be quite old, and don't necessarily operate at around 40c. People are taking short cuts and they really shouldn't because once they do, they regret taking that short cut, but they blame the heat pump instead of the fact that they've not done any prior work to make their house well insulated AND air tight. An MVHR isn't necessary, unless you're aiming to use PassivHaus principles like I am, but the rest are absolutely stuff you should do before putting in a heat pump
@waqasahmed939 I have DIY'ed an MVHR based on a VentAxia unit I got on ebay. Was not difficult, just lots of air plumbing to do. Works really well. House much lower humidity. Biggest challenge was the main air intake/exhausts fitted.
Hi Glyn, great video. Just wondering if you could do a quick video on how to use the heat loss calculator in more detail? Though I think the only thing I'm stuck on is how you came to the 0.3 value for air change per hour. Thank you, Chris
I actually got a pressure test done on my house to determine this. However, usually in these calculations a typical value is used. You can look up typical values for your house structure type.
Great video on your install....You were really methodical in the time lapses and explanations though I'll have to watch it all through again as I'm not up on all the products in your install yet.
I've just perused your other videos and I can't make out what you do for a living? I'm just about to install a 7.5kW solar install with 20kW lithium battery bank. I'm almost 60 and did all my renovations 20 odd years ago. I still have a brand new combo boiler in the loft as I couldn't face re-plumbing another one in when I fitted this one....I really didn't expect a Biasi Combi boiler to last 16 years without ever being serviced.....but it has (touch wood). As I'm from a different generation, I've seen how my government has lied to me over the years (especially the convicted war criminal Tony Blair), so when the current banking crisis follows every other that has ever happened (first a PLANDEMIC), then a recession leading to a depression, then WAR........I'm taking the whole 'climate change' crisis with a pinch of salt. I'm sure we're in for 'blackouts' (again totally engineered) as the globalists move their money from what was the affluent West, to the emerging markets of the East, Africa and South America. There's a lot more money to be made in emerging markets rather than supporting an affluent, ageing West. But unless I'm going to relocate, I have to spend my next (hopefully) twenty or more years in the UK and take whatever is thrown at us. To be more energy independent in these times seems to be a prudent thing, even if it's going to be rather expensive. I reckon I've already spent around £15,000 and that's without a ASHP and a water cylinder.....add on another £5000 at least? Sorry about the pre-amble but my question is:
I think reading through the comments, you claim that your system would run on about 1kW of electricity per day? That seems a pifling amount to produce hot water and heating. Even though my house is probably about 1.5 times the size of yours, if I could achieve the same, I'd almost be able to run off battery for most of the year, with a bit of top up possibly for the weeks where the sun doesn't even appear. What do you think?
Thanks for your message, I'm an engineer I work on OpenEnergyMonitor.org. In the winter the heat pump is currently using about 5kWh per day to do heating and hot water. The instantaneous power is less than 1kW when it's running, often below 400W. With a decent sized solar system and battery you will be able to run it quite a lot just from solar. In the middle of winter you will need a top-up from the grid. Here's some data from heat pump so far, you can see the consumption and temperatures in real-time: emoncms.org/samsung5kw
@@GlynHudson Many thanks for the reply. Good luck.
As you say emitters are key, in my opinion. I see most people who claim "heat pumps don't work" just try to bolt on a heat pump to cast iron rads or small panel radiators with no fins. Then get surprised 55C outlet temps are not going to heat the home.
Impressive.
Just to say, next time you take something metal and potentially heavy off a wall, please wear steel toecap boots rather than sandals. You can always put the sandals back on again as soon as you're done lifting!
Very impressive and I hope your heatloss calc etc is correct!
Thanks, even a 5kw unit is significantly oversized for the house, but it was a smallest unit that was available! There's no danger of the house being cold, so far the system is performing exceedingly well getting cop of 4-6.
@@GlynHudson thanks!
We were advised not to wall-mount our external unit because it was likely to resonate, so mounted it on the ground about 1ft away from the wall instead. Have heard the same is true for AC units, but your solid stone walls may be less susceptible to this!
My Daikin Air-to-Air inverter for the air conditioning is wall mounted on a brick wall. I can't say that I've heard any issues.
I used rubber dampers between the bracket and the unit, they seem to be working well, I can't detect any vibration from inside the house. In fact, it's almost impossible to tell if the unit is running without going outside since it's so quiet. Installers will want to avoid wall mounting since it's a lot more work. 1ft clearance is a bit tight, I'm surprised they were willing to install with such a small clearance, this will be much less than the manufacturer's recommendation.
I like it, for a non plumber a got work.
Excellent job very impressive. About to commission my heat pump as a diy job as well, using all the videos from heat geek .. and some. Just one thing though. I don't know how your anti freeze valves will work up hill. Not sure if that is the camera angle, but I can't think they will be able to drain the heat pump to avoid the water cracking the heat exchanger.
Nice work! You're right, the antifreeze valves should really be at the lowest point, but I was tight for space behind the unit, so I put them on the pipes. I don't think it will be a big problem since they will still release the pressure on the system. Also, the pipework is more susceptible to damage than the heat exchanger since the copper pipework has less flex. Either way, I very doubt they will ever be tested since I've now got a decent size home battery which will keep the ASHP running even if there is a power outage, therefore the system should never get close to freezing
Hey Gyln, Great Work! I was very impressed by your camera skills, narration and plumbing 😂 I'm actually making a decision today on a 8kw gen 6 Samsung Ashp for a similar sized property in the south of Scotland. I was wondering after the winter in Wales with a concrete floor how did your system perform?
It's been working great, it's one of the highest performing heatpumps on heatpumpmonitor.org, it kept the house lovely and warm and averaged COP of 4.3 over the winter. Here's the data so far emoncms.org/samsung5kw
Thats are really impressive, going from bottled gas you must be seeing a big saving. I was originally quoted for for a 12kw system glad I told them to down size it based on those figures and being a bit further north 8kw is probably fine if not slightly too big.
@@shediverse yes, about £100 a month saving compared to bottled gas! The ASHP is less than half the running cost of bottled gas.
Have you considered routing the gas pipes (13:42) through the inside of the house to reduce heat loss? I have a mini-split type system that is supposed to raise the temperature of my MVHR in the loft. Condenser is on the ground outside and have trunking on the outside going round a corner and up to the loft (9m ish-run). The trunking is noticeably hot to the touch when in heating mode. Also confirmed with a thermal imaging camera where I have 21° C sliver temperature band along the whole length of the trunking with outside air temp of around 5° C. As soon as I saw that, I flipped the heat pump off (central gas heating is our primary source of heat). Suffice to say, I'd not recommend my system to anyone (System Air and installed by TL Trading).
It's an air to water (A2W) monobloc heat pump, so those external pipes carry water not gas. There's no space to run them internally, there's a bathroom with a shower cubical in the way! They are however very well insulated, and the running costs are significantly less than gas, see my update video: czcams.com/video/kkNx2oSO-S4/video.htmlsi=RujmQw4_8r6zrYgf
@@GlynHudson Ok my bad. Still worth a touch test if you have a ladder or a thermographic inspections (the cameras have really gone down in price) on a very cold day. I'm now planning on getting air-to-air mini splits and boxing/insulating the trunking afterwards.
Great job! am I correct in thinking you don't need the two water supply tanks in the loft ? eg F&E tank and water supply tank. Thanks for the video, really helpful.
Thanks. Yes, this is a pressured unvented system, no tanks in the loft