Failed Compressors - Don't JUST REPLACE IT
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- čas přidán 10. 05. 2023
- Bert teaches a class about failed compressors and what you should do when you encounter one; he also explains why you don't want to "just replace it."
Acid can kill a compressor, and it is one of the most common causes of compressor death after replacement. Moisture contamination in the system mixes with POE oil to form acid, which degrades the oil's ability to lubricate the compressor and leads to premature failure. High heat and electrical burnout may also cause acid formation in the system.
When you diagnose a compressor, you will want to follow an extensive diagnostic process, not just replace it. A thorough diagnosis will help you figure out if the system has acid. Some common signs of acid in the system include positive results on an acid test kit and a pungent odor when you remove your hoses.
When addressing an acid problem, you will want to replace the compressor AND accumulator, do an acid flush or other form of acid treatment, and install a suction line filter drier (being mindful of the one-way flow and appropriate installation practices). You can either remove the contaminated line drier after 10-14 days or replace it with a fresh one after 10-14 days.
Be mindful of system and condenser airflow when you diagnose a compressor; watch for inappropriate or multiple filters, damaged or improper ductwork, inappropriate blower settings, a dirty or clogged evaporator coil, a dirty blower wheel, or a dirty and impacted condenser. Poor airflow can cause high temperatures and pressures, which strain the compressor. Airflow issues at the evaporator can also prevent refrigerant from fully boiling off, which can lead to liquid going into the compressor and causing premature failure. It is important that you quote for these issues so that customers can make educated decisions.
You'll also want to be mindful of the refrigerant charge and how it may contribute to early compressor failure. Low refrigerant charge can cause the superheat to be higher than usual; coupled with longer runtimes, a low refrigerant charge can be a problem when we're dealing with refrigerant-cooled compressors. We can use a P-T chart, do a standing pressure test, or weigh out the refrigerant to check for a low refrigerant charge. Leak detection can help you find a leak, which is a common cause of low refrigerant charge. It's also a good idea to be prepared to complete a full test after installing and starting up the new compressor.
Electronic issues may also be involved in compressor failure. Failed capacitors, especially on hard start kits, can cause the system not to run; you will want to make sure that you have tested all of those accessories. If a compressor has a factory hard start kit, you will want to replace the hard start kit with the compressor; an aftermarket hard start kit may just need to be removed, not replaced. Pitted contactors, switch problems, poor connections, and wire damage can also cause the compressor to run continuously or short-cycle the compressor, both of which lead to early compressor failure.
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This man just can’t miss! Thanks for the cheat sheet gentlemen. I’ll be sure to send it to all my boys. Amazing amazing work.
Great class. A way to get around the possible failed txv issue is just to install a new txv with the compressor. The system is already flat and it really doesn’t add to much labor or cost to the job.
You brought up some stuff I haven't considered for compressor failure. Thanks for graciously sharing.
This is exactly the topic I've been needing help with. Thank you!
Thanks for this important information. I appreciate it tremendously!!!
Sorry if I missed it if you did mention this, I think it's critical to make sure people know that after a burnout assume you have acid always and do a test on the oil in the crank case, test-all is a great kit to stock on your truck. You can test poe or mineral oil w that kit. If your test fails, best practices are to use r11 flush or similar and then add a suction line filter drier made for cleanup but do not leave on the system, I think you did mention not to leave on system but it's important to remove that drier after a couple days and re test with the quick tests you showed while the system is running. Read directions on your test kit. It makes a difference. If you still have acid you need to install another suction and liquid line drier all over again, and do this however many times that's needed till you can pass a test. I will even reflush with the r11 and in extreme cases even add a scavenger and that works really well, then remove suction drier permanently and install fresh liquid drier and you're done. Install flare driers and add ball valves even to make life easier. Many times it will take multiple rounds to be acid free. It's just what it is but if you leave any acid, you'll be back,or a different company
👍a very instructional and professional video..!
Thanks..!!!!
Good job Bert
Bert 1 button away from a GQ front cover
Thank you! Very good class. I am a licensed HVAC/refrigeration contractor. Love your way of easy talking about important issues! Will definitely watch more of your videos!
Thank you for this very informative content. I am an amateur from a different discipline (IT) however I am learning a lot from these videos. It helps me know what to look for in my own application (residential) and informed some of the prior repair work.
Great info Bert!
Great video. Diagnosis of a compressor is a “Who done it”? game. Got to know what killed the compressor. I always offer replacement as an option, but with rising costs, it’s really hard to see the value on a system out of warranty.
Great video! Thanks....
Kalos gives good training for their staff. More shops should do this. Great you invite us in.
Have you ever seen a replacement compressor have hard start issues due to excessive oil from original compressor throughout system adding to a full fresh load of oil from new compressor? Refrigerant charge level and voltage drop to contactor during startup surge current are fine. (8 degs subcooling, 230vac during 109 amp startup surge current). Original scroll compressor failed for compression, so no motor burnout contamination of oil. Run cap, contactor, and liquid line filter replaced with new compressor.
The longer the system is off, the more sluggish the compressor startup, which makes me think it is oil draining back from five foot higher evaporator with 20 ft line length between. The time factor could also be caused by de-wicking of oil from motor stator windings back to oil sump of compressor.
Believe this is a case where compressor failed for poor compression, but enough compression to get some liquid (at cooler nighttime), with oil, to evaporator but not enough return line vapor mass flow to return oil from evaporator to compressor. When new compressor installed with full new oil load it drove the oil stuck in evaporator back to new compressor overcharging it with oil.
As you mentioned, understand the failure mode of previous compressor to predict possible consequences for new compressor.
Copeland official stance is only way to be sure of correct oil load is to pull compressor out and drain oil out suction port, assuming it should recover about 87 to 90% of full oil load specification, allowing for recovered oil loss of 8-10% system distribution and 2-3% motor stator windings wicking absorption of oil.
Thank you this video helps
Amazing class! Extremely informative. Thank you so much for this video.
Thank you.
Good video! As a seasond commercial tech I've learned these tactics along the way. I work on my hearing and visual alerts. But, why did I feel like this meeting was because of me?? 😂
Nice explanation compressor new fixed before
Love this video. My dad has 45 years of experience in the industry. He is training me, and we need more honest technicians in this industry. There are too many companies that are training technicians just to be salesmen. Not about the money or problem, just make the customer happy👍
How old is your pops
@@Pablo1on1 he just turned 64 on Wednesday
@TheKurtis96 wow he was 20 years old when he started thats good learn as much as you can from him
Your lucky sir
So well done. Thank you. Raphael nyc
This class is informative. It also shows how some of the participants greed in the HVAC world. Always get a second or third quote people!
I have been following your videos from the word go. I have been learning a lot. I am having a hard time sourcing the tool kits for a practice, where can I find the tool kit, especially the ones you use. Do you sale?
Love u Bert ❤❤❤
You guys are dope
thanks ;)
When you first your guages to a running system, What are the high and low side readings that would indicate " bad valves", in a compressor for 134a?
Bert sir..what can I do whenever i leaking check in mini splits system...i generally face problems leak can't found...is any liquid i inject to system....to found
I have a lot black carbon dirty suction line when i cut it out to instsll suction line dryer . Will this cause any other issue ?
If a AC system has no leak refrigent . Is there any chance the oil would drain?
Found the right fuse on the disconnect blew. After investing found that when I checked ohms from the compressor to ground it would start at 16 M ohms climb to 38 and then OL. That test was done with the plug on the terminals disconnected and with plug on. I wonder if that means the compressor is failing I'm curious to know if anyone has come across this before.
a non working electronic low/high pressure switch, poor defrosting and water coming in to the refrigerant system in a air-to water heat pump is a few ones ive run into
Heat, Energy surge/ spike & moisture breakdown down the varnish or insulation coating on the windings causing acid in the system it also shorts the windings together & or shorts through the oil to the shell of the compressor ie: Shot to ground. Allowance of .5 Mille ohms to shell. Sumpinlikedat
I had a customer with 160 ft of lineset 110 ft of it was buried in the yard north of Chicago it would slug the compressor until the ground warmed up
Bert sir... good 👍 information regarding compressor...but you most look like ...tru technician looks....
MORNING HOW CAN I JOINED YOUR LIVE CLASSES (DONALD IN JAMAICA)
Bert🎉
Hers one. a failed fan motor or fan side of capacitor, and of course the compressor is as hot as a firecracker and fails in a few months, wonder why?
In my case, i forgot to open the refrigerant valves, customer turn it on for who knows how long... I went out there, open the lines... Re tested the system... I had 90 on my low and my head was about 600 psi.
Are manufacturers going to cover replacing the accumulator if you are replacing the compressor?
Are they only going to do it if you confirm there is acid or even if you only suspect it?
I really like the idea just curious.
Don't just replace it , replace it and stat singing. 😂😂😂
15:20 standing pressure test, the slides show adding nitrogen for a second. Was that out of order or something?
Hi Joe yes, a standing pressure test does not involve nitrogen. We just took that part out of the video. A standing pressure test is hooking up gauges and comparing the P/T chart to outdoor ambient. If your standing refrigerant temperature is below outdoor ambient temp that is a good indication you are low on refrigerant.
@@MattBruner gotcha, thought so! Thanks 👍🏻
Why does nobody ever think about a condenser fan motor that's too slow. Due to wrong rpm or to low a hp and it dragging?
Agreed...todays HVAC systems are not built as well as the older stuff thats 20+ years old. So, it's not the best idea to suggest a bundled system replacement when a compressor or evaporator part will restore an older rig. Most of those older R22 systems were built for the long haul unlike todays cheap 10 year life span units. Aluminum vs. copper, chineseium contactors and capacitors vs. USA, control boards galore...in the air handler, the condenser and other components all ready to fail due to cheap manufacturing processes. I have seen a few new condenser control boards that act as the contactor...high voltage wires connecting directly to them ! There is a design that will fail everytime too soon and not $30 to fix but $500 if you are lucky to source the part.
@Garth Clark I disagree with some of that. The biggest cause of short lifespan on modern equipment is usually poor installation practices whether it be from the installer not knowing the correct procedures or careless techniques which introduce contamination/non condensibles. That's the biggest cause rite there, moisture and contamination from brazing without nitrogen. I see it too often. Then you have alot of homeowners who can do any job themselves, enough said there. Now I do agree that pcb's can be a weak link in systems and the older systems didn't have any boards , tech has really come a long way since the 80s but because of that so has efficiency so the new tech is much welcome. There's also brands still making superb quality units today and if installed and maintained properly will and do still last well over 20 years and as time goes on who knows maybe we will see systems over 30 or 40 years old in the future still. That is as long as these manufactures don't keep playing the obcelence game like apple and the others. From what I see, that is a major contributing factor to a system that otherwise could last another 20 years or more needing to be replaced. Dealing with that rite now at a middle school that needs a 1.5 million$ lead lag chiller swap. Can't get the controls anymore and nothing available from anyone that could be compatible. Very unfortunate. But not all manufacturers are like that
@@HVACRTECH-83 Of course there would be a lot of variables that affect HVAC longevity...installers are not created equal and the HVAC industry is very inconsistent when it comes to holding HVAC contractors accountable in best trade pratices and holding true to manufacturing guidlines for todays sensitive equipment. Presuming all else is equal...most HVAC tech will agree todays hardware is not built for the long run.
@@HVACRTECH-83 Some people are gathering up spare parts just to avoid that problem...so they have it when its no longer made or avaialble etc. I have a new in the box gas water heater stored for the day I need one but the state won't allow the sale of gas water heaters in 10 years or so. Same goes with plumbing fixtures...many homes were built with the sewer pipes designed to work with a minimum water volume and cannot function with the low water volumes newer plumbing fixtures have. Had an issue with that once and found out the sewer pipes won't push out the waste with only 1 gallon. Kitchen faucets are next to have parts for...the Government thinks that 1.8 gals per minute for kitchen faucets is helping when in fact that idea is hurting most homes. Garbage disposals won't work as they should with a low flow nor will it save any water. Same with the usage of said faucet, forcing people to wait to fill their sink to wash vegetables or other needs is saving water? No...its not but it is a nuesance idea.
@Garth Clark I still strongly disagree with the most hvac techs will agree that equipment is not built to last part. I believe that's what a tech would use as an excuse and I see it all the time. You can't prevent a pcb malfunction that was going to happen anyway, but just about every other part of any system can have a very long service life if given chance, that includes compressors,motors, contactors , motor starters, txvs especially, reversing valves as well, these are all parts that should and do last 30 years or more. A compressor doesn't just die. Usually. Contractors and starters die from short cyling/overheating/over current. Txvs 95 out of 100 times is contamination or rub out, reversing valves same thing. Contamination. No other way they can fail unless the very rare time a cap tube joint breaks but that's pretty rare and would be linked to excess vibration. The point is, soo much failure can be avoided for our customers and our reputations by knowing what's not normal when we start a system up and watch it run, every install, every screw terminal needs to be checked for tightness, every spade connector, if it's loose,tighten it. It's easy. You never know when you'll be back out a month or two later for a blown fuse,tripped breaker,whatever and a burnt up connection or bad moter even .
@@HVACRTECH-83 depends but there's no convincing me, my Amana 4T & 5T Premiere gas heater & 5T evaporator are problem free since 1991. Not even a capacitor. No leaks, no breakdowns etc.
It doesn't take anything to burnout the Copland cheap compressors on Lennox HP
is it no just litmus papers??
The instructor looks like Lorenzo Lamas.
Those quick check acid tests are not the most reliable. I understand that that in residential you don't have and oil port on your compressors, so it makes it hard to test the oil directly.....but if you are replacing a compressor......i would definitely recommend using the Phase 3 acid test kit.
I will weigh the oil removed from the comp and check it vs the data tag...you want to get all that oil out of the system....scrolls...if not under warranty....i always cut them open to find out why it failed...if you dont know why....you will be back to replace another one shortly. They do make HH bi-flow suction line driers. I've used them before and had no issues at all. We also use acid scavenger as well as a suction drier. Use lits and lots of nitrogen and purge the contaminated oil from the system. Use the pipe wiper. If its a burnout on a HP....I always replace the RV as well.
Why are you changing an RV as well? They don't exactly carry a lot of oil, and so the acid isn't going to pool up in them very much.
Changing an RV is a lot of additional labor that a customer may not need to be paying for.
had one show up at my house said nothing was wrong with the ac had the electrician over 5 times cause the ac when it engaged it would blow the breaker he finaly at the last day takes the ac apart and the wireing assemble is burnt to crap you figured the ac guy woulda looked for this in the first day
Are there manifold gauges closed. Omg what are we dealing with patients senior tech just train.
Liked for acid taste 😂
What is this technical term, "slam dirty"?!😅
Copeland and LG are making poor quality compressors causing a lot failures as well
Homeboy is tasting acidic oil...
B E R T
Compressors dont die, they are murdered.
Wait....leaving suction driers in permanently? I was always told this is a no-no?
not an hvac guy, why can't you neutralize the acid
POE oil won't release moisture like mineral oil did. Only a filter drier can remove moisture from POE. That might mean multiple driers before the system is o.k.
The bigger elephant in the room is cost. It's cheaper to just replace the compressor not worry about it. So the home owner has to be informed why it's important. Just preaching to the *choir* isn't going to do much with home owners being told regularly on line that if they don't like the price keep shopping. I got a phone call just a few days ago where the cost she was quoted is likely going to lead to another failed compressor. Who is educating the home owner?
You are. After reasonably explaining the process and necessary steps if the person can't decide cheap vs right... you don't want them anyways. 3 times from the 12-pack pickup guy(s) or once from us...now which is the better deal?
@@mad1337nes I maybe the 3, 4th or 5th contractor to the home or 25 DIY videos on CZcams. By then there minds are filled with more nonsense than what I can put here. Give me another atta boy, so I can move on?
Is anybody else tired of Bert?
Yessss !
Haven’t watched the video yet but just off the title fuck that lol, company ain’t making no money finding out why.. bad compressor ok good let’s get a new one in here
I replace the capacitor too and filter.
Try to stop me 😎
Mad lad
I the same problem