I was LDS for years. Became LDS after college, married a beautiful cradle LDS lady I met in a singles ward, served in the Bishopric, on the Stake High Council, and then started reading LDS history. Big mistake for my LDS faith! It was a long journey, fraught with challenges to our married life, but God got hold of my life and my wife's heart . . . we entered Christianity in a Baptist Church, researched Church history and became Orthodox and are now "back home" practicing Catholics. Praise God!
@@stevenlester985 _"...that’s a weird way of describing what Christ commands us to do."_ Are you denying that the literal worship of ritual human sacrifice is the core tent of Christianity? You know, that cross thing and John 3:16... Paul created Christianity in 48 AD and this is how he put it: Romans 8:32 "He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all." 1 Corinthians 5:7 "Christ our passover is sacrificed for us." Romans 3:25 "God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement." Romans 5:8 "God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us." Hebrews 10:10 "We are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ."
@@stevenlester985 _"...that’s a weird way of describing what Christ commands us to do."_ Should we expect God to know what the Ten Commandments are? Which was Jesus's sixth commandment? (Notice that Jesus lists only the secular commandments that make no mention of God): 1. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. (Matthew 19:17-19) 2. Honor thy father and mother: Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honor thy father and mother. (Mark 10:19) 3. There was no sixth. Jesus listed only five commandments: Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor thy father and thy mother. (Luke 18:20)
My wife is ex Mormon, coming from a Mormon family. Her family always treated me so kindly, way better than my own southern baptist family. Even after I converted to catholicism they still treat me well, and were more supportive of my conversion than my evangelical parents.
Dennis Prager once said at a forum that the true test of any religion is how its people behave. I like Rory Sutherland's take "It aint crazy if it works"
I too was a devout mormon. (6 generations). Found out that Joseph Smith wasn’t true. Left at 33 yrs old. Joined a baptist church and nondenominational for 20 plus yrs. Found the church fathers thru a Catholic who just invited me to look them up! I’ve studied for 6 yrs. Now just trying to get in the Catholic Church! 😀 not an easy task.😜🙏🏻 but trusting God through it. Please pray for me.🙏🏻❤️
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is God's and Jesus Christ one and only true church here on earth. We know and teach the Bible and gospel better than any other denomination. To put it bluntly, the gospel every other Christian denomination (including the Catholic Church) teaches is a watered down version of what God's and Jesus Christ true gospel really is. The Catholics corrupted the gospel. Rejoin God and Jesus Christ in their Kingdom and rejoin their true church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and learn all that they have to offer. Learn of their glory and mercy, learn of the plan they have of you
@@MeanBeanComedy _"We know all about your different worlds of heaven."_ LOL You say you know the "deets" of my religion but get them wrong. They aren't worlds but degrees in the same place. The Early Church Fathers even mentions them and gives details, would you like those quotes?
@dylanwilliams2202 You are being smug in your refutation over a technicality. The person you are responding to is correct in the ways that matter, and you aren't even correct. The celestial kingdom has degrees within it, but the Terrestrial and Telestial kingdoms are both described as completely different realms/places. At best, the issue of whether or not they are on different worlds would be unsettled and the idea that they are would be perfectly compatible with LDS theology. I'll bite. What quotes are you referencing?
@@bearistotle2820 The very early Church Father, Papias understood that the Saviour's three degrees of 'fruitfulness' (Matthew 13:8, Matthew 13:23) corresponded to the Pauline three 'heavens' or 'glories' (1 Corinthians 15:41). According to him (as recorded in the first century account of Polycarp), the 'Elders' agreed that “Those who are deemed worthy of an abode in Heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of Paradise, and others shall possess the splendor of the City. For everywhere the Saviour will be seen, according as they shall be worthy who see him. But that there is this *distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundredfold, and that of those who produce sixtyfold, and that of those who produce thirtyfold; for the first will be taken up into Heaven; the second class will dwell in Paradise, and the last will inhabit the City; and that on this account the Lord said, “In my house are many mansions”' for all things belong to God, who supplies all with a suitable dwelling place, even as his word says, that a share is given to all by the Father, according as each is or shall be worthy.”* That was also quoted by Irenaeus in his book. Origen, in the early third century, revealed that the early Church interpreted this passage in essentially the same way “Our understanding of the passage indeed is, that the Apostle, *wishing to describe the great difference among those who rise again in glory,* i.e., of the saints, borrowed a comparison from the heavenly bodies, saying, "One is the glory of the sun, another the glory of the moon, another the glory of the stars” (Origen, De Principiis 2, Chapter 10 paragraph 2) Clement of Alexandria also expressed belief in the three degrees, and echoed the Lord's revelation to Joseph Smith that those in the highest degree "are gods, even the sons of God." From Clement of Alexandria, Stromata 6 chapter 14 titled “degrees of heaven”, “Conformably, therefore, there are various abodes, according to the worth of those who have believed . . . . *These chosen abodes, which are three, are indicated by the numbers in the Gospel--the thirty, the sixty, the hundred.* And the perfect inheritance belongs to those who attain to "a perfect man," according to the image of the Lord . . . . To the likeness of God, then, he that is introduced into adoption and the friendship of God, to the just inheritance of the lords and gods is brought; if he be perfected, according to the Gospel, as the Lord Himself taught.” Clement also preached that the three gradations of glory are procured by virtue of three types of actions: [Clement of Alexandria] reckons three kinds of actions, the first of which is . . . right or perfect action, which is characteristic of the perfect man and Gnostic alone, and raises him to the height of glory. The second is the class of . . . medium, or intermediate actions, which are done by less perfect believers, and procure a lower grade of glory. In the third place he reckons sinful actions, which are done by those who fall away from salvation. Just like the Early Church Fathers In the vision of the kingdoms of glory to Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon (Doctrine and Covenants section 76), the Lord revealed that 1 Corinthians 15:40-41 is not just a comparison of earthly bodies with heavenly, but also a reference to the fact that there are three different major levels of glory to which a body can be resurrected: “And the glory of the celestial is one, even as the glory of the sun is one. And the glory of the terrestrial is one, even as the glory of the moon is one. And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differeth from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world.” (D&C 76:96-98)
Belief in the Catholic faith is not based on a single piece of evidence, such as the sincerity of the apostles, but on the totality of all the evidence. And it's overwhelming.
It all is j st one thing though. The resurrection. Issue is even if I grant you that Judaism is truth because we have equaled that miracle even today. It doesnt equal Sinai so you cant alter the covenant. That and Jesus is in hell
@@bearistotle2820you're still alive! Nice to see you again my friend haha I meant to ask you years ago if your name had anything to do with a certain tall man who now lives in Idaho.
Man, I'm so stoked for this video. I used to be mormon and I'm reading about Catholicism. I've been waiting for Trent to do a video about this. I'm going to save it for tomorrow after work as a reward for making it through another shift. Lol. Love your videos.
If you'd like a place to ask questions about Catholicism, I highly recommend checking out crossthetiber.org There's a lot of good folks there that are happy to answer questions and point you to great resources. -Kyle
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is God's and Jesus Christ one and only true church here on earth. We know and teach the Bible and gospel better than any other denomination. To put it bluntly, the gospel every other Christian denomination (including the Catholic Church) teaches is a watered down version of what God's and Jesus Christ true gospel really is. The Catholics corrupted the gospel. Rejoin God and Jesus Christ in their Kingdom and rejoin their true church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and learn all that they have to offer. Learn of their glory and mercy, learn of the plan they have of you
@@dylanwilliams2202your “prophet”literally pulled “revelations” out of his ass left right and center for his own convenience lol. Why would I follow such a phony religion?
As a Latter-day Saint/ long time fan of yours, I must applaud you for the high quality video. Though I obviously have my disagreements with what you've presented, overall it's a very well researched/ considered critique of our faith that deserves serious attention. Quite often people who criticize Mormonism do so from a blatantly misinformed perspective. It's refreshing to see somebody take our faith seriously enough to actually do their homework. Well done!
@@Jay_in_Japan Yeah. Back in like 2015 (kinda old news). Please tell me you don't think the CES letter is the pinnacle of critiques with regards to Mormonism? Dan Vogel for example (an actual scholar unlike Jeremy) is a much better source
Thanks Ethan. You saved me from writing out a comment. Although Trent is incorrect in quite a number of points I do appreciate him taking more time than most to research.
What's interesting about the LDS Church is that they claim they're the "restored" Church of the Apostolic Age. Yet, when you read the Apostolic Fathers (Ignatius mainly) and the Didache, we can see that the Church of the Apostolic Age has really no theological similarities. I recommend to every Mormon to read the Didache.
The Egyptologist info on the above video needs to be updated. As Paul Gregersen demonstrates that Joseph Smith was right, the Egyptologists were wrong.
Thanks for the video. I was born and raised LDS. I also served a mission and taught about the Book of Mormon for two years. I'm 35 now and, for a variety of reasons that would be too long to list here, recently came to the conclusion that the book isn't what I thought it was/what it claims to be. That conclusion has left me reeling because of it's implications, so I've been engaged in listening to a lot of apologetics recently while I try and piece my faith back together. Your channel has been refreshing and I appreciate you taking time to touch on this. Consider this a request for you to do more videos on the subject.
Biggens - As an active LDS member, I tell people that if their church had a better value proposition I would leave tomorrow. it's essentially a trade. I am promised exaltation, eternal marriage, temple worship, covenant blessings, spiritual inspiration, and physical protection...which I believe I have received in spades. What do I get if I trade that in to become Catholic, or join an online church like Apologia - or become agnostic/atheist? Where is the best long-term ROI for myself and the kids...do you have kids? Were you able to trade up for something better? I'd be interested in a similar trade.
@MBiggens, I was a devout Latter-Day Saint my entire life. And when I say devout, I mean I was all in. Then I learned about Sacred Tradition and the Church fathers. I eventually came to the conclusion that either Christ's church was lost and had to be restored, or it had always been on earth just as he promised (Ephesians 5:29-30; Matthew 16:18; John 14:16, 18). It was at this point that I realized I had to address my concerns regarding the JST. In short, I found the Bible to be the most/only reliable book of scripture. Eventually after much studying and prayer, I was baptized into the Catholic church 2 months ago, at age 36. I wish you the best in your journey and I hope you will soon join us!
@@rhamsesmartinez5007 Thanks for sharing! I've actually been attending mass for the past couple of months and plan to start RCIA in around September. My wife went through a similar process and has recently been baptized at a non-denominational evangelical church. It puts us in a strange situation, but I trust that God will do His own work in us and guide us to where we're supposed to be as long as we seek sincerely. Best wishes to you moving forward as well!
Love the line from the s t.the voyage home. Spock is mind melting with Gracie the blue whale is her name in the tank. Kirk to the whale specialist: " He did too much L.D.S in the sixtys. ". Thats what Roseanne Barr says too
Another former Mormon that became Catholic. Although Orthodox rather than Roman. I enjoy most of your stuff. Funny the way time changes things for us. If you were to say 10 years ago I’d be offering up prayers to Mary and the Saints I’d say you were crazy. My soul is finally at peace now. Love my Roman brothers!
What do you mean ? Either you are part of the holy, saint, unique and universal Catholic church in one of its 24 rites (Roman(or Latin), and the 23 eastern rites (Maronite, Gueze, Greek-Catholique, Melkite, Syro-Malabar, ....) which indeed have an Orthodox faith. Or you are part of the shismatic church that call itself orthodox and you are thus not part of the Catholic Church.
Well the official name of the church is “The Orthodox Catholic Church” and we say the Creed every week expressing the belief in one Catholic Church and talk to every Orthodox priest and they will say we are Catholic but what do I know?
Knew some lovely Mormon folks in college. Friendly, well dressed, and pretty fun to hang out with. Eventually I did find the Catholic center so slowly stopped seeing them, but they weren’t too disappointed about it. Even went with them to their temple down in Houston, which was…. Different for me. One of the guys told me he actually “stood in” for his deceased relatives there, something like 10 times he was ‘baptized’ in their place. Still don’t really understand how that became a practice with Mormons, but I feel that way about a lot of non-Catholic practices. At the end of the day though, I do feel a bit sad for Mormons/LDS folks. Yes they seem happy and all that, but I just can’t understand how they can reconcile such strange ideas when compared to basic history. Catholics get the same accusation of course, but most of those accusations can be refuted with solid evidence if the accuser is willing to argue in good faith. Mormonism though, I just don’t see the same level 🤷♀️
It's a great question. Paul instructed disciples re:this practice in Corinthians chapter 15. Reconciliation comes with study and understanding. it actually makes sense if you try and figure out how someone could be condemned to hell for not having an opportunity to be baptized...which incidentally is how the practice of infant baptism began. Why would God condemn innocent babies to hell, limbo, etc while a sinful baptized person is saved? Isn't this far harder to reconcile than the belief that everyone will have an opportunity to accept or reject the gospel of Jesus Christ and have a baptism performed on their behalf?
@@HaleStorm49Paul mentioning something is FAR from him supporting something. Baptism does not make sense after death. If they are dead, they either get saved or not. If not, no prayer or ritual from third persons will help them.
@@HaleStorm49 Have you read the chapter? You cited the whole chapter so I guessed you did. He was not in the whole section teaching practices. It was debunking! Baptism was already discussed in other letters and it was clear the why and how. Read it well: In that section he is first criticizing a specific heresy that believed that the unbaptized are annihilated at death - their soul just vanishes, nothing after. Jehovah's Witnesses is a modern heresy that advocates this, I believe. Right after he says basically if there's no soul, what are you baptizing anyway? The whole argument is about resurrection after death being FUNDAMENTAL to Christianity. "If Jesus was not resurrected, YOUR FAITH IS FUTILE" So brother, much what we know of baptism is all over the Bible, it's just not in that part. The whole Bible makes it extremely clear: Salvation is YOUR responsibility. You cannot save others by proxy! Why can't I then take a roster of the world's dead from the last 100 years and baptize them? Damn, let me baptize Hitler real quick, he'd go straight to heaven with no effort of his own!
Read the book, Russia and Universal Church. Vladimir was a russian orthodox who converted to Catholicism, he was one of the brightest minds of the east.
As an ex-Mormon and now (Evangelical Protestant) Christian, I would love to see further dialogue or debate between you and LDS apologists. I always really appreciate your reasoned approach even when I disagree with you.
It would be cool to have a part 2 where Trent addresses some of the rebuttals he's received by the Mormons in the comment section, especially those quoting scripture about the exaltation of men and the Trinity. I think It's an interesting conversation for everyone. As a former member of the Mormon church going through RCIA, I've found that there is an abundance of Catholicism vs Protestantism discussion, but there's not a whole lot of in-depth critique of Mormonism from the Catholic prospective. I understand Trent can't do a 3 hour podcast, but addressing some counter arguements and interpretations of the Bible that Mormons commonly give would be a fitting companion to this video.
I too was Mormon and was baptized Catholic just over a year ago! I had this same conversation with my husband who is a cradle catholic. He thinks the reason why there is not a lot of Catholic vs. Mormon videos out there rebutting the Mormon faith is bc a lot of Catholics have bigger issues with protestant faiths and wanting to bring the church back to its fullness since the schisms rather than the Mormon church which is not even part of the Christian denomination. The YT page God Loves Mormons has some great content but it does come from a Protestant perspective but I find it is still great information as it uses biblical evidence to explain different topics. Wish more Catholics would talk about it but not many Catholics have a good understanding of Mormonism. I find it’s hard to unless you grew up in it.
@@alyssaprice2511 I also figured Mormonsim is small potatoes in the scheme of things, but it's sad to see that when many people leave Mormonism they end up Atheist. My sister has also decided she doesn't believe in the LDS church (we sort of went on this journey together) and I fear she's gone down the Athiest tract. So much of Mormon criticism includes progressive athiest ideology (Mormon Stories). I wish there was more targetted outreach from Catholics to Mormons. I'm in Utah, so there's plenty of former member's teaching and going through RCIA at the parish I attend, so there's at least some community, but not a whole lot of online community.
@@sirshramp5934 I couldn’t agree more! Majority of people who leave the Mormon faith become agnostic or atheist. Small % become Christian. I was invited to go on the Mormon Stories podcast and turned it down because I do not align with John’s lack of religion. He does have great information when it comes to the falseness of Mormonism but gets it terribly wrong with promoting agnosticism and atheism. Yes, not many Catholics talk about the issues of Mormonism online and I think it’s a shame especially since people’s souls are at stake here. I think it can be intimidating since Mormonism is a very hard religion to understand since it is a lot of mental gymnastics and a lot of the terminology is the same as Christianity but their words have different meanings. It’s been on my heart to create a community online for this type of content that you and I are talking about so I may have to give it some serious thought. I wish there was more information from a Catholic perspective when I was leaving Mormonism.
@alonso19989 Yeah! I came accrossed him a few days before he did that episode on Trent's show. I really like Joe's approach. Exactly what I was looking for!
My grandpa was a cradle Catholic and quite the character. When he was getting on in years he used to answer Mormons by saying, "Oh you're here to talk to me about the Angel Moron!" Playing it off as senility.
It is interesting to note that the 19th century had many groups that tried to get back to what they thought was the “original NT church,” and rejected all other existing denominations. The Reconstructionists were one such Christian group.
Kudos to you for reading all these Mormon books. I can’t have this stuff living in my head. The Mormon faith is so confusing with no logical path. Thank you for trying to make sense of all of this for us.
Former member but it was the same plates just 116 pages were not translated. The plates were actually Brass. The reason I became Catholic is the fact the Book of Mormon teaches of Mary's sinless nature and in Transubstantiation, then in Doctrine and Covenants 20 Joseph Smith rejects Transubstantiation. My question then is if Mormonism is true, then why the conflict of scriptural teachings? Catholicism never conflicts with the teachings of the Apostles and Prophets. I then studied the keys of the kingdom, each key pointed me to the Catholic Church.
Oof, Kwaku M. El is so freaking abrasive that he makes James White look downright cordial by comparison. Coming from an LDS family, I know the vast majority of LDS people are wonderful, but man, I cannot stand listening to Kwaku.
I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. We have scholars that give great answers to all these issues which Trent raises. I appreciate his honesty and sincerity. I once left my faith once after learning about these issues. My favorite scripture though is proverbs 3:5 which says to trust in the Lord with all thine art and lean not on thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him and he shall direct thy paths.” I’ve done that and I’ve overcome the craftiness of men and answered all my questions and issues. Nevertheless I get why people can’t get over these issues and I still love y’all. I enjoy the channel and find all these discussions interesting.
Thanks for this Trent. Had some Mormons come over and they wanted to come back tomorrow to explain their case more. Watching this and reading other material so I can be the best Catholic witness possible, and help kindly point them in the right direction and defend the True Faith.
Please pray for my godmother, for whom I'm named. She married a Mormon when i was a child and she left the Church. A couple years ago she revealed to me that the Catholic Church had hurt her "very badly." I didn't get a chance to ask her what happened, but around the same time i learned that young girls in her age bracket, who were all from families of little means, had been abused by the parish priest. This was before Vatican II, for what it's worth. Many of the girls were being raised by their dads after their mothers died, or their mothers were very ill and hospitalized for some length of time. Being a farming community, the mothers didn't work outside the home, but contributed majorly to the family's income because everybody in the family worked on the farm. My godmother was such a girl. She had been sent to live at the rectory for a time, according to some (as noted, I didn't have a chance to ask her). There was a convent on the other side of the church from the rectory, so I don't know why the girls wouldn't have been sent there instead of to the priest's residence, and nobody can explain why, they just insist that's what the arrangement was. Whether my godmother was a victim of abuse or not, something happened that hurt her emotionally very badly, to where she left the Church. My parents asked her to be my godmother because she was pious, devout, and faithful, and they wanted that for me. Please pray for her to heal and return to Holy Mother Church, and also please pray for the victims of that priest and for all victims of clergy abuse.
That must have been traumatic she needs proper counseling.. and I see now why she saw Catholic that way. But a single priest must not damage the whole church.. even where I came from I know priest who was held accountable and in jail.. in summary judge d person not d whole church because everyone is a sinner regardless of religion
About the necessity of monotheism, let me tell you one thing I found out. If you want to make a Hindu really angry, call him/her a polytheist. They will tell you that all the gods and goddesses to whom they pay honour are just aspects of the one and only God. There cannot be more than one, because the Lord, Ishwara, Bhagavan, is the Self of the universe. Polytheism always tends to this direction - you can find the same tendency in Greek philosophy.
InspiringPhilosophy's "The Case for Ancient Monotheism Documentary" video also sheds light on evidence for monotheism amongst aborigenal tribes from Australia.
Former Mormon Missionary here who is currently in the RCIA. You did an excellent job with this video. I had a very harsh exit out of the Mormon church, a lot of familial and social backlash even to this day. All ex-mo's have different stories and experiences coming out of it. But we are all united in being so grateful that we left. Glory to God!
I grew up in a Mormon family. All my childhood I was told how Joseph Smith was a prophet that restored the true Church. Then as an adult I really started studying things like Doctrine & Covenants, and started feeling doubts. One day I watched a PBS documentary where I learned for the first time that blacks had been barred from the priesthood and the LDS prophet at the time, Gordon Hinckley, described the meeting where they made the decision. It caused a crisis of faith because the priesthood is a huge part of Mormonism. Wouldn't God have made such a big detail right from the beginning of a "restoration" of the Church? Then if you start digging into who Joseph Smith was you could really start to see the manipulation he exerted on people. Mormons are generally good people but they have been misled.
The Mormon Great Apostasy is even worse than stated here. In Mormon Theology, the Church must people in the Office of Apostle, who have what they call the "Melchizedek priesthood." This is distinct from the "Aaronic priesthood" which they believe their bishops, elders, etc hold. The Melchizedek priesthood is necessary for ordaining new people; Aaronic priests cannot ordain. So the loss of the Apostles means the loss of the Melchizedek preisthood. What this means for the Mormon Great Apostasy is that as soon as the last apostle dies without anyone in that office, you cannot ordain anyone else, meaning the church dies in one generation. You may note that none of the early church writings mention any sort of distress about the lack of an apostle office leading to the loss of valid ordination. This leads to one of three potential conclusions. Either 1) the sin/heresy of the Church was absolutely irrelevant to the Great Apostasy, because even if they had not sinned the Church would have still lost priesthood authority from the death of the apostles; 2) the Church had gone almost entirely apostate while the Apostles were still alive such that they decided not to ordain any new Apostles (this would seem to contradict the existence of Titus, 1 and 2 Timothy, and the Philadelphian Church in Revelation 3:7-12); or 3) the Apostles were completely unaware that an office of Apostle was necessary to continue the priesthood. To this last point, some Mormon apologists explain the loss of Apostles by saying they were unable to appoint successors due to getting martyred. Setting aside that Mormons believe John the Apostle is still alive so he should be able to ordain, the actions of the Apostles are much more consonant with a vision of spreading throughout the world ordaining bishops to continue succession, than needing to keep Apostle Office alive and sending out missionaries whose death would not cause the death of the entire Church.
Option 3. They were aware because they were Apostles and Christ taught them what was to occur. There are several verses in the NT that reference both the apostasy and the restoration of "all things" which includes things that have never been taught before in the last dispensation before Christ returns.
Just this morning was telling my husband about Medjugorje, the Marian apparition...he wanted to know to whom, to Joseph Smith??? No, Hunny. The Virgin Mary did not appear to Joseph Smith.
I would really enjoy it if you would do some more shows on this topic. I have studied Mormonism quite a bit, but I have great difficulty in showing the errors.
I too became Catholic because the God of the Bible is clearly not the one Joseph Smith lays out. “Hear, O’Israel, the lord your God is lord ALONE.” That being said, they way Mormons behave is often more Christian than most Christians. Good people even though the beliefs are deeply flawed.
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii Paul has no formal teaching in history let alone hieroglyphics or Egyptology so I think I will trust the actual educated people over someone who has made LSD induced videos on CZcams
@@davidlarssen15HAHAHA, priceless. Paul doesn't need to be an Egyptologist. As Joseph Smith, by revelation, translated the counterfeit (facsimiles) back to the true meaning.
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii So he needs to have no formal education in a subject to refute those who do this is why Mormonism is false they put aside all logic and irrefutable facts and just have faith because your heart says its true. JEREMIAH 17:9 - The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; Who can understand it?
Hey! Mormon here. You've made a lot of great content here and I've loosely followed you for a while now. Almost every single time I see a headline about Mormonism, it's almost a guarantee it's full of nonsense and misinformation. So honestly it was a relief to see that you actually attempted to depict our faith as accurately as possible. It's not hard to tell when someone has actually taken the time, and when they haven't. We tend to be an easy target or punching bag for larger Christendom so many tend to try to get away with half-baked research. I can tell you're acting in good faith though and I appreciate that. There are a few mistakes/ambiguities I'd like to correct if I may: - You said he had many spiritual wives, some of which were 14. For one, only a single one of these "wives" was 14, which was not considered wrong or especially unusual in his day. But further on that, she was only sealed to him for "eternity only". It may be helpful to understand how sealings worked at that time to understand why many of his "wives" were not wives in the way we picture them as sexual partners. - You said after Martin Harris lost the 116 pages Smith translated from other plates. That's not really true as there was only one set of plates. Instead he was told to simply continue translating from the same set rather than going back. Perhaps that's how you meant it, but I think at the very least that can be confusing for some. - On plurality of gods: We believe in a plurality of gods, sure...but only officially as a lowercase "g" god (which is how all publications spell it). Some Mormons speculate on "infinite regression" (God having his own Father and so on) but the Church itself does not embrace or teach that doctrine. It does embrace a version of theosis, however. But there is no official doctrine at all about multiple capital "G" Gods. Many LDS (including myself) do not agree with this speculative idea of infinite regress or multiple "Gods". Many of my arguments (though not all) are the same as the ones you gave. In fact the way you describe the Jewish concept of Yahweh is spot on my conception and the way I understand LDS doctrine. - On the King Follett Discourse, a few things of note which are somewhat compounding: 1) It is not as a whole considered doctrine. Prophets are human and sometimes speak for God and sometimes speak for themselves...fallibly. This was a funeral discourse, not an official prophecy. That doesn't mean we can reject it outright, but rather it is not necessarily a reliable source of doctrine. 2) There was never an official transcript but many and there appear to be some disagreements on some of these especially controversial points of God once supposedly being mortal. 3) Many interpret the discourse to suggest God himself was exalted from his own mortality. That doctrine is not taught nor embraced by the Church, but is simply the result of speculation of rank-and-file members without authority to declare so. - This one is nitpicky but...Lamanites is LAY-man-ahyts, and idk how you pronounced Zarahemla but it's just as it's spelled lol. That's more just a personal peeve haha. Those are mostly doctrinal points I think need clarification. There are lots of things I could push back on regarding geography or God just being some superpowered alien, etc. but that's a whole discussion of its own. I hope these points can be helpful. Again I can at least appreciate you critiquing and addressing this in good-faith and even-handedly. I'd be happy to discuss these topics with you, although I'd highly recommend you reach out to the channel "Thoughtful Faith" who is actually far more familiar with Catholicism and philosophy/theology more broadly as well as doing video discussions and debates. He's done thorough discussions on Trinitarianism and Creatio Ex Nihilo which you brought up before as well. Since you've given some critique of Mormonism, I hope you're willing to engage with some good-faith responses. Despite some disagreements, I respect what you do 🙏🏻
@@glennyskitchen9491 Understandable but again a few points on that: 1) Such young marriages were not uncommon for the early 19th century. 2) Her "marriage" to Joseph Smith was a sealing for "eternity only". Meaning there was little to no chance they actually had sexual relations. 3) Her parents were the ones that initiated and approved the whole thing with her approval as well. Consent all the way around. 4) Helen Mar Kimball was her name. She actually went on to very much defend her marriage and the institution of polygamy later in life. She was one of the strongest defenders of it. All of which seems to me rebuts the "creepiness" of it.
Nothing screams "I have no sound and valid argument" like repeating the same word or phrase over and over with a smug smile on your face. You could tell the Mormon individual on the podcast was full of it. Thanks for calling out all this stuff!
My inlaws are Mormon and I've always said that people join the church for the social structure, not the doctrines. The social structure is amazing. Truly nice people with lots of activities going on, and excellent support of families. But the doctrines........ 😬
@@scroogemcduckismyspiritanimalyou can't have one without the other...as most other churches have demonstrated while turning their nose at LDS theology.
@@HaleStorm49 no, there are very very many nice Protestant and Catholic churches too. With lots of families building community, good structure, members helping each other grow in virtue. So you can have the social structure without Mormon doctrine. My point was that Mormons have definitely got that going for them....and that's what's attracting people cause the doctrine is illogical.
@@scroogemcduckismyspiritanimal thinking illogically is like bullying. You can see it everywhere except in the mirror. Jesus taught us that it's not the seed it's the soil.
I’m LDS and I love Trent’s content. He’s become one of my favorite apologists. That said, I have to correct one point. To say that Joseph Smith “died in a gunfight,” is like saying that the Central Park Jogger (a victim of gang rape) was injured in a Central Park sex party. He was being held in tiny frontier jail with his brother and two other associates awaiting trial. They were told by the single jailer that a mob of men were planning to kill them. A friend of Smith managed to smuggle a pistol into the prisoners. A mob of 150-200 armed men, their faces painted black, stormed the jail and attacked. The 4 prisoners tried to fight back with the smuggled pistol and a single walking stick. Ultimately Smith and his brother were killed and the two others shot. Calling that event a “gunfight” deliberately misleads. Im sure that Trent has been informed by unfriendly LDS critics and hasn’t really fact checked. I wouldn’t expect him to. So I offer this information as a friendly correction to good faith critics.
That doesn't matter. We know he fought plenty in Missouri and only got into that situation by wrecking the newspaper that spoke against him and declaring marshall law. In the nicest terms the guy was a complete rogue
If you do debate a Mormon please do not debate Kwaku El. (the Mormon from the clip you showed debating the protestants) He is a random party planner who only gets invited to do debates because he has a social media presence and is willing. I would recommend Robert S. Boylan who is a graduate of the Pontifical University of Ireland, and has published a few books on LDS thought. Behold the Mother of My Lord: Towards a Mormon Mariology was probably my favorite. He also used to be Roman Catholic, so he would be equipped to talk about differences in theology with out confusing common terms and words used between the two churches to say different things.
Mormon here, and I think this is the most thorough and well-intentioned explanation of my faith (and of the critics to it) I have seen from someone of a different faith. There were a few points that made me wonder how serious you were about your critique (like Joseph Smith being all in on it for the women and power, and what seemed like a skepticism that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is indeed a "Church"). But overall, you let the facts stand for themselves rather than ascribing a malicious motive to my church like many others do. In addition, I've watched many different Mormon apologists over the past 3 years and the one you featured in the James White debate is the one with whom I've had the most disagreements. He traps himself into defending some viewpoints that I would say are not consistent with Mormon doctrine, and I feel like he comes at a theological debate like a politician rather than a philosopher. He's fun to listen to at times and well-intentioned, but I don't think he's a good one to put as a standard of Mormon thought.
Being a member of the Church myself, there were several inaccuracies in this video that will give viewers, particularly non-members, false notions and ideas of what we actually believe. And much of what he shared and disagreed with he did so in ignorance. Whether he omitted and lied intentionally or not, I'm not sure, but it doesn't matter. The fact remains, viewers will get false ideas of the Church. For me, I never listen to apologetics. The whole point of them is to prove your point right and the other wrong. I have seen them before and that's why I don't listen or watch them. The Spirit has never been there for me.
@@TheForgottenMan270 I recently rewatched this video and I did pick up on a few other things that I didn't pay attention to before. There's no doubt that people will get false ideas of what we actually believe from this video, but I still say Trent is the least malicious and most well-intentioned apologist out there. From his tone and content, I am confident it comes from ignorance and not malice. To be honest, I don't listen to apologists to feel the spirit (for that I'd much rather listen to the Prophet and the Apostles). I do it to get a sense of why other people believe a certain doctrine, policy, or historical matter is the way it is so I can better adapt my own responses to concerns that people may have about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I've received my own answers on why things are the way the are (though I continue to seek revelation in case there is something more I'm missing), but my answers aren't exigent to everyone, especially if they aren't looking or for them.
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Jesus Christ (or a Mormon) and love this channel and am grateful for the respect you show despite our obvious disagreements. The only thing I would mention is that the King Follet sermon is not considered canon or scripture and that there is some disagreement on wheather or not God was once a man within the members of the church. I, for one, am in the camp that he has always been God like you do. Once again, love your channel and will continue to watch!
@HaleStorm49 You are correct that as false, demon inspired religions go Islam is way more successful - a billion adherents vs 16 million. But it's early days for Mormonism. Maybe in 1500 years we'll be talking about the Mormonite Empire of the 2200s.
Wow i didnt know the post-gold plates stuff. I thought they were Christians plus gold plates story. The "God was one of us" bit turns them into something else entirely. No unmoved mover.
Hey Trent! I just watched Lila rose and Kristen Hawkins debate Destiny on the whatever podcast regarding abortion and it would be great to see you do a reaction video on what you would do differently and how you would respond to Destiny’s stance
If you're going to start addressing Mormon truth claims then you need to be willing to have discussions/ debates with the best scholars we have to offer. I'd suggest inviting Robert Boylan or Blake Ostler on your show.
Thanks! I've read Boylan's blog and he has praised my work on pro-life and baptism. I'm open to maybe debating him in Utah if we can get scheduling figured out.
@@TheCounselofTrent Jacob Hansen also will do debates, he has debated the Trinity and source of authority before. His CZcams channel is called Thoughtful Faith
Is it bad that I view Mormons as apologetics practice when I speak with them? It’s just so far out there that it’s a lot easier to refute than something like Protestantism which is closer to what we believe. Great video Trent!
_"It’s just so far out there that it’s a lot easier to refute "_ LOL I have refuted Catholicism multiple times and the Catholics I was discussing with never even came close and are unable to refute my Church. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is God's and Jesus Christ one and only true church here on earth. We know and teach the Bible and gospel better than any other denomination. To put it bluntly, the gospel every other Christian denomination (including the Catholic Church) teaches is a watered down version of what God's and Jesus Christ true gospel really is. The Catholics corrupted the gospel. Rejoin God and Jesus Christ in their Kingdom and rejoin their true church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and learn all that they have to offer. Learn of their glory and mercy, learn of the plan they have of you
@@dylanwilliams2202 I was going to ignore you until I've seen multiple messages from you preaching a false Church. For your claim to be true that JW have the true Gospel, you'd have to show that the JW Bible is uncorrupted but you can't. Because if you compare the JW Bible to a Hebrew or Greek interlinear, we should find a true translation, but we don't. Here is just one example. Exodus 3:13-15 - Hebrew transliterated [13] way·yō·mer mō·šeh ’el-hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm, hin·nêh ā·nō·ḵî ḇā ’el-bə·nê yiś·rā·’êl wə·’ā·mar·tî lā·hem, ’ĕ·lō·hê ’ă·ḇō·w·ṯê·ḵem šə·lā·ḥa·nî ’ă·lê·ḵem; wə·’ā·mə·rū-lî mah-šə·mōw? māh ’ō·mar ’ă·lê·hem? [14] way·yō·mer ’ĕ·lō·hîm ’el-’mō·šeh, ’eh·yeh ’ă·šer ’eh·yeh way·yō·mer, kōh ṯō·mar liḇ·nê yiś·rā·’êl, ’eh·yeh šə·lā·ḥa·nî ’ă·lê·ḵem. [15] way·yō·mer ‘ō·wḏ ’ĕ·lō·hîm ’el- mō·šeh, kōh-ṯō·mar ’el-bə·nê yiś·rā·’êl Yah·weh ’ĕ·lō·hê ’ă·ḇō·ṯê·ḵem, ’ĕ·lō·hê ’aḇ·rā·hām ’ĕ·lō·hê yiṣ·ḥāq wê·lō·hê ya·‘ă·qōḇ šə·lā·ḥa·nî ’ă·lê·ḵem; zeh-šə·mî lə·‘ō·lām, wə·zeh ziḵ·rî lə·ḏōr dōr. Exodus 3:13-15 - English translation of the Hebrew interlinear [13] And said Moses to God, suppose I come to the sons of Israel and shall say to them the God of your fathers has sent me to you. And they say to me what [is] His name? what shall I say to them? [14] And said God to Moses, I AM who I AM, and He said thus you shall say to the sons of Israel I AM has sent me to you. [15] And said moreover God to Moses, thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, Yahweh God of your fathers - the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob has sent me to you. This [is] My name forever, and this [is] My memorial to all generations. Exodus 3:13-15 - JW NWT 2013 [13] But Moses said to the true God: “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your forefathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is his name?’+ What should I say to them?” [14] So God said to Moses: “I Will Become What I Choose to Become.” + And he added: “This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘I Will Become has sent me to you.’”+ [15] Then God said once more to Moses: “This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham,+ the God of Isaac,+ and the God of Jacob,+ has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever,+ and this is how I am to be remembered from generation to generation. Exodus 3:13-15 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Ed. [13] Moses said to God: Lo, I shall go to the children of Israel, and say to them: The God of your fathers hath sent me to you. If they should say to me: What is his name? what shall I say to them? [14] God said to Moses: I AM WHO AM. He said: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: HE WHO IS, hath sent me to you. [15] And God said again to Moses: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me to you: This is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. Exodus 3:13-15 RSVCE [13] Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” [14] God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” [a][b] And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I am has sent me to you.’” [15] God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord,[c] the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you’: this is my name for ever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations. [a] Exodus 3:14 Or I am what I am or I will be what I will be [b] 3.14 The translation is uncertain; it is, therefore, difficult to decide whether this is a refusal to disclose the name or an explanation of the divine title Yahweh revealed immediately afterward. [c] Exodus 3:15 The word Lord when spelled with capital letters, stands for the divine name, YHWH, which is here connected with the verb hayah, to be In the Hebrew text of this passage, when God first answers Moses’s question as to what his name is, in verse 14, he says, ehyeh asher ehyeh is his name, which translates as “I am that I am.” But notice God then tells Moses, in that same verse, to tell “the sons of Israel I AM has sent me to you.” There, God says his name is more simply ehyeh, or “I AM.” Then, in verse fifteen, he declares to all that his name forever will be YHWH, commonly read and spoken as Yahweh, which translates basically the same as ehyeh asher ehyeh-“I AM THAT I AM,” or “I AM WHO AM,”. Yahweh, it would seem, was revealed as God’s formal name while the essence of his name, or the shorter version, if you will, is revealed simply as I AM. Metaphysically, this name reveals God to simply be. He has no beginning, no end, no lack of being; He is all perfection. He is existence itself. And this is his name. The New World Translation’s is "I Will Become What I Choose to Become" - I can't wait for you to explain how two Catholic translations are true to the text while your "Church" has falsified God's words. Show me which word of the Hebrew corresponds with which English word of NWT.
Hey Trent. How would counter a point saying, “well we may know where Jerusalem is, but no one agrees as to where the garden of Eden was either.”? Also, I would like to hear you debate a Mormon or continue these in depth explanations. I have a few Mormon friends, some who want to engage with me in discussion and others who don’t. Either way, I’ve found it very hard to understand the religion, and this video helped a lot. I feel like more of this would be very helpful
@@twoody9760 because the argument would be that, and I can’t specifically remember, but a lot of the places spoken about in the stories of the Book of Mormon would have also not had maps at the time, idk though, that’s why I’m asking. Like if you think about historically the native Americans weren’t literate and did not use physical maps like we do, so that would be their argument as well
The Garden of Eden was a garden at the beginning of time occupied by two people. The Nephites and Lamanites were supposedly continent spanning civilizations that existed for 1000 years until around 400AD. Not really the same thing. The absence of any archeological evidence for the Nephite cities is, shall we say, highly conspicuous.
I was raised Mormon and must admit I'm no longer one but I do believe that the insistence that Mormons aren't Christian is hurting all Christians, we can learn alot from each other
I am not Morman because it makes no sense. Addition: While I haven’t changed my mind about Mormanism making no sense, upon reflection, your summary helped me to understand something that has always bugged me; why protestants, particularly evangelicals, usually throw Catholicism & Mormanism into the same bucket on the basis that they think Catholics treat the Trinity, BVM & saints as mutliple gods, which is not the doctrine of the Church, but you know how arguing with a stone wall goes. I found a recent survey on religion that showed while adherence to a/any religion in the west is declining, Catholicism seems to be holding its own. While obviously there are many variables at play in that (particularly given that the Church hierarchy is bereft of quality & faithful clerics) I have been struck by what appears to be an interesting trend - conversion to Catholicism. For a while I thought it was just me, but the other day Church Militant ran a piece on the number of people (some high profile) converting. Again given the current state of the clergy, one has to assume the attraction is in the dogma, which has certainly stood the test of time, certainly more so than Mormanism. On last point, I thought the clip you played on the ‘debate’ interesting. When all logic/reasoning failed, the only thing the Morman had left was miracles, which, based on his behavior, falls into the category that if you repeat something often enough, it becomes true. Anyway, thanks for the segment.
You totally have missed what Protestants believe about the Trinity: and the Catholic Trinity is very similar to the Protestant Trinity: Mormonism is vastly different from any trinitarian ✝️Christian tradition.
Trent, can you please debate (or do a response video to) the CZcamsr / Streamer “Destiny” about abortion? His main argument is that only consciousness should be protected, but I’ve not seen any competent pro lifers debate him
Lila rose is competent, so is Kristen. I haven't watched it, but I've heard they just had one. Y'all act like the question is difficult. Anyone can take care of it easily. If consciousness is all that matters, in other words being aware of your surroundings/who you are, then we better start killing those who sleep, those in a coma, those unconscious, those under anesthesia should be fair game etc. That's why the line can't be drawn there. Obviously, the issue here isn't whether someone is conscience or not. The issue is that it's murder (the unjust killing of a human being)
@@angelalemos9811 Watch the debate. It does not make Lila or Kristen look competent. Lila Rose in particular kept speaking over Destiny and Kristen and refused to answer questions put to her. Destiny tied them both up with nots. I agree with you about consciousness, but I can see Destiny arguing that the difference between people in the situations you mentioned is that they are all humans with fully-formed brains who are unconscious, whereas an embryonic unborn child does not have a brain capable of consciousness. Your "the issue isn't whether someone is conscious or not" wouldn't defeat his argument because according to him, an embryo is not a 'someone' yet.
One of the odd things about Mormonism is that the Book of Mormon has some verses with trinitarian/monotheistic language. 2 Nephi 31:21 - "...And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen." Mormon 7:7 - "...unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end." Alma 11:26-29 - "And Zeezrom said unto him: Thou sayest there is a true and living God? And Amulek said: Yea, there is a true and living God. Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God? And he answered, No."
Time-stamp 0:18, 0:55 - Is Mormon persecution comparable to the persecution of the disciples? 14:35 - Isaiah 43:10, Trent Horn argues that false gods and idols cannot be in view here because many are still being formed to this day. 19:00, 21:00 - Book of Abraham
I'd love to watch more videos from your perspective about mormons. I'm Catholic and was raised Catholic but then I questioned it after I read the Book of Mormon. Although I believe it is false there are some times where I still have those "what ifs".
Dont let the Book of Mormon fool you. If you knew who Joseph Smith really was… you’d run. First, you would have to no longer believe in the Trinity. Believe that Mary was a regular sinful person like me and you, and that Lucifer is Jesus’ brother! And I mean literally! They believe Jesus was a begotten son and not The Only begotten Son! Their doctrine believes that God the Father, had sexual relations with Mary and that’s how Jesus was conceived! I mean it disgusts me to even type it to you! It’s sooo blasphemous! I am a former six gen Mormon. I was devout for 33 yrs. Very active and Thank the Lord Jesus that he lead me out! 🙏🏻😀 I know you couldn’t leave your precious faith for that! So no more “what if’s “ my sister in Christ! Blessings to you! ❤️ 😄
Apparently, there’s some controversy on this one in LDS circles. I brought this one up at work once mentioning that since I grew up around a lot of LDS (my grandfather’s sister married one of Orrin Hatch’s nephews), I thought having caffeine-free Dr Pepper around all the time was normal. When I mentioned that the LDS members can’t have caffeine, an LDS coworker, and BYU grad, quickly corrected me on this. All of that is anecdotal, obviously, but there are at least some Mormons that are ok with caffeine. -Kyle
@@lukehanson_Am I correct in thinking that Doctrine and Covenants prohibits consuming hot drinks? I read it 30 years ago when I was a Catholic missionary in Japan and came across Mormon missionaries on several occasions. I thought I recalled reading that prohibition.
@@spideyN8R Wrong. They do not believe Jesus was God in the flesh but was a preexisting spirit child of God the Father and Heavenly Mother. In fact, they believe that Jesus and Satan are both spirit children of God and are brothers. These beliefs are not consistent with believing that Christ is God. Mormonism simply isn't Christianity. It's something else.
Man, I used to be Mormon and the teach jeans that I learned were very, very corrupted not only that they taught that we could become gods one day, but the thing was I didn’t feel the spirit of God so I love the church and then I found myself into protestant where they talk about faith alone yeah I felt God in that, but it wasn’t the full truth, but the spirit of truth or Holy Spirit Brought me back home to the Catholic Church
Great video! But I've noticed in my discussions with Mormons on the first point that Mormons will claim that the King Sermon is not canonical and merely a speculative grasping at the higher realities of God.
Trent, could you do a video on megachurches/nondenoms and what you think of them? They seem to be creeping up more and stealing away people. And they have huge sunday attendances. How is that? How can we bring that into our churches?
It’s because they are all about entertaining, not true worship. I believe if Jesus visited one of them, he would take a whip out and knock the coffee shops over.
So, I have a couple of Mormon friends who would say that some of these teaching aren't really approved by the church, how would you answer to that? God bless you Trent and Our Lady keep you safe!
I was LDS for years. Became LDS after college, married a beautiful cradle LDS lady I met in a singles ward, served in the Bishopric, on the Stake High Council, and then started reading LDS history. Big mistake for my LDS faith!
It was a long journey, fraught with challenges to our married life, but God got hold of my life and my wife's heart . . . we entered Christianity in a Baptist Church, researched Church history and became Orthodox and are now "back home" practicing Catholics. Praise God!
Glory to God❤️☦️ I’m Orthodox and may God bless u
Wow. That’s a journey.
What a journey. Glad you’re here!!
Incredible journey and testimony.
Wow! God is so good.
As a former Mormon who read/ found his way home to the Catholic Church, I say very well done.
So you decided worshiping ritual human sacrifice was the way to go.
LOL
@@twitherspoon8954yawn ad infinitum.
@@twitherspoon8954that’s a weird way of describing what Christ commands us to do.
@@stevenlester985
_"...that’s a weird way of describing what Christ commands us to do."_
Are you denying that the literal worship of ritual human sacrifice is the core tent of Christianity? You know, that cross thing and John 3:16...
Paul created Christianity in 48 AD and this is how he put it:
Romans 8:32
"He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all."
1 Corinthians 5:7
"Christ our passover is sacrificed for us."
Romans 3:25
"God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement."
Romans 5:8
"God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us."
Hebrews 10:10
"We are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ."
@@stevenlester985
_"...that’s a weird way of describing what Christ commands us to do."_
Should we expect God to know what the Ten Commandments are?
Which was Jesus's sixth commandment?
(Notice that Jesus lists only the secular commandments that make no mention of God):
1. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself:
If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. (Matthew 19:17-19)
2. Honor thy father and mother:
Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honor thy father and mother. (Mark 10:19)
3. There was no sixth. Jesus listed only five commandments:
Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor thy father and thy mother. (Luke 18:20)
My wife is ex Mormon, coming from a Mormon family. Her family always treated me so kindly, way better than my own southern baptist family. Even after I converted to catholicism they still treat me well, and were more supportive of my conversion than my evangelical parents.
My experience lines up with that as well. The LDS family that I have are still incredibly friendly to me even after my conversion. -Kyle
So sorry for that. I have no idea why Protestants are such arrogant and unloving people. And I'm Protestant.
My LDS grandparents came to my Catholic baptism, first communion, & confirmation. The LDS side of my family has shown me incredible love & kindness.
Mormons tend to be very good people or very bad people with few in between.
Dennis Prager once said at a forum that the true test of any religion is how its people behave. I like Rory Sutherland's take "It aint crazy if it works"
I too was a devout mormon. (6 generations). Found out that Joseph Smith wasn’t true. Left at 33 yrs old. Joined a baptist church and nondenominational for 20 plus yrs. Found the church fathers thru a Catholic who just invited me to look them up! I’ve studied for 6 yrs. Now just trying to get in the Catholic Church! 😀 not an easy task.😜🙏🏻 but trusting God through it. Please pray for me.🙏🏻❤️
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is God's and Jesus Christ one and only true church here on earth. We know and teach the Bible and gospel better than any other denomination. To put it bluntly, the gospel every other Christian denomination (including the Catholic Church) teaches is a watered down version of what God's and Jesus Christ true gospel really is. The Catholics corrupted the gospel. Rejoin God and Jesus Christ in their Kingdom and rejoin their true church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and learn all that they have to offer. Learn of their glory and mercy, learn of the plan they have of you
@@dylanwilliams2202We know all about your different worlds of heaven. Everyone's already learned the deets on your religion.
@@MeanBeanComedy _"We know all about your different worlds of heaven."_ LOL You say you know the "deets" of my religion but get them wrong. They aren't worlds but degrees in the same place. The Early Church Fathers even mentions them and gives details, would you like those quotes?
@dylanwilliams2202
You are being smug in your refutation over a technicality. The person you are responding to is correct in the ways that matter, and you aren't even correct. The celestial kingdom has degrees within it, but the Terrestrial and Telestial kingdoms are both described as completely different realms/places. At best, the issue of whether or not they are on different worlds would be unsettled and the idea that they are would be perfectly compatible with LDS theology.
I'll bite. What quotes are you referencing?
@@bearistotle2820 The very early Church Father, Papias understood that the Saviour's three degrees of 'fruitfulness' (Matthew 13:8, Matthew 13:23) corresponded to the Pauline three 'heavens' or 'glories' (1 Corinthians 15:41). According to him (as recorded in the first century account of Polycarp), the 'Elders' agreed that “Those who are deemed worthy of an abode in Heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of Paradise, and others shall possess the splendor of the City. For everywhere the Saviour will be seen, according as they shall be worthy who see him. But that there is this *distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundredfold, and that of those who produce sixtyfold, and that of those who produce thirtyfold; for the first will be taken up into Heaven; the second class will dwell in Paradise, and the last will inhabit the City; and that on this account the Lord said, “In my house are many mansions”' for all things belong to God, who supplies all with a suitable dwelling place, even as his word says, that a share is given to all by the Father, according as each is or shall be worthy.”* That was also quoted by Irenaeus in his book.
Origen, in the early third century, revealed that the early Church interpreted this passage in essentially the same way “Our understanding of the passage indeed is, that the Apostle, *wishing to describe the great difference among those who rise again in glory,* i.e., of the saints, borrowed a comparison from the heavenly bodies, saying, "One is the glory of the sun, another the glory of the moon, another the glory of the stars” (Origen, De Principiis 2, Chapter 10 paragraph 2)
Clement of Alexandria also expressed belief in the three degrees, and echoed the Lord's revelation to Joseph Smith that those in the highest degree "are gods, even the sons of God." From Clement of Alexandria, Stromata 6 chapter 14 titled “degrees of heaven”, “Conformably, therefore, there are various abodes, according to the worth of those who have believed . . . . *These chosen abodes, which are three, are indicated by the numbers in the Gospel--the thirty, the sixty, the hundred.* And the perfect inheritance belongs to those who attain to "a perfect man," according to the image of the Lord . . . . To the likeness of God, then, he that is introduced into adoption and the friendship of God, to the just inheritance of the lords and gods is brought; if he be perfected, according to the Gospel, as the Lord Himself taught.”
Clement also preached that the three gradations of glory are procured by virtue of three types of actions: [Clement of Alexandria] reckons three kinds of actions, the first of which is . . . right or perfect action, which is characteristic of the perfect man and Gnostic alone, and raises him to the height of glory. The second is the class of . . . medium, or intermediate actions, which are done by less perfect believers, and procure a lower grade of glory. In the third place he reckons sinful actions, which are done by those who fall away from salvation.
Just like the Early Church Fathers In the vision of the kingdoms of glory to Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon (Doctrine and Covenants section 76), the Lord revealed that 1 Corinthians 15:40-41 is not just a comparison of earthly bodies with heavenly, but also a reference to the fact that there are three different major levels of glory to which a body can be resurrected:
“And the glory of the celestial is one, even as the glory of the sun is one. And the glory of the terrestrial is one, even as the glory of the moon is one. And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differeth from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world.” (D&C 76:96-98)
Belief in the Catholic faith is not based on a single piece of evidence, such as the sincerity of the apostles, but on the totality of all the evidence. And it's overwhelming.
It all is j st one thing though.
The resurrection.
Issue is even if I grant you that Judaism is truth because we have equaled that miracle even today. It doesnt equal Sinai so you cant alter the covenant.
That and Jesus is in hell
@@walleras You have equaled that miracle? Please elaborate on what you mean by that.
I totally agree...................with the first part of your sentence.
The plural of anecdote is not fact. Many pieces of lousy evidence don’t add up to a convincing argument.
@@KestyJoe Do some research and then come back. Until then, I can't waste my time on you.
I was a Latter-day Saint for 3 years, now I make videos exploring the Catholic faith - This is great!!
YOOOO!
I was LDS as well, went on a mission and everything, and am now Catholic.
@@bearistotle2820 No way!? Where did you serve?
@@bearistotle2820you're still alive!
Nice to see you again my friend haha
I meant to ask you years ago if your name had anything to do with a certain tall man who now lives in Idaho.
@@pentesaint_ Knoxville, TN!
@RL-te6cy Oh yeah, hi! Unfortunately I know nothing of tall men in Idaho lol
I was a Mormon for 18 years now I’m a Orthodox Christian. I respect my Catholic brothers and sisters
Thank you, brother and may God bless you.
@@bman5257 ❤️
Id say I feel closer to Catholicism or orthodoxy than any other form of Christianity
@@jhoughjr1 yes. I use to be a Protestant too. The reformation opened up to door these restorationist groups like the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses
Love to all our Orthodox brothers and sisters ❤
God bless 🙏🏼
Mitt Romney just disinvited Trent from his next BLM fundraiser.
Man, I'm so stoked for this video. I used to be mormon and I'm reading about Catholicism. I've been waiting for Trent to do a video about this. I'm going to save it for tomorrow after work as a reward for making it through another shift. Lol. Love your videos.
If you'd like a place to ask questions about Catholicism, I highly recommend checking out crossthetiber.org
There's a lot of good folks there that are happy to answer questions and point you to great resources. -Kyle
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is God's and Jesus Christ one and only true church here on earth. We know and teach the Bible and gospel better than any other denomination. To put it bluntly, the gospel every other Christian denomination (including the Catholic Church) teaches is a watered down version of what God's and Jesus Christ true gospel really is. The Catholics corrupted the gospel. Rejoin God and Jesus Christ in their Kingdom and rejoin their true church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and learn all that they have to offer. Learn of their glory and mercy, learn of the plan they have of you
@@dylanwilliams2202you're not a good listener
@@waseemhermiz7565 Oh no I am, I just don't care about garbage takes that can easily be refuted.
@@dylanwilliams2202your “prophet”literally pulled “revelations” out of his ass left right and center for his own convenience lol. Why would I follow such a phony religion?
Please keep these episodes coming! For some reason finding a lot more Mormons than I realized in my life
As a Latter-day Saint/ long time fan of yours, I must applaud you for the high quality video. Though I obviously have my disagreements with what you've presented, overall it's a very well researched/ considered critique of our faith that deserves serious attention. Quite often people who criticize Mormonism do so from a blatantly misinformed perspective. It's refreshing to see somebody take our faith seriously enough to actually do their homework. Well done!
Have you read the CES Letter yet?
@@Jay_in_Japan Yeah. Back in like 2015 (kinda old news). Please tell me you don't think the CES letter is the pinnacle of critiques with regards to Mormonism? Dan Vogel for example (an actual scholar unlike Jeremy) is a much better source
@@Jay_in_Japan And have you read the CES letter response by Jim Bennett?
@@lukehanson_ First I've heard of it, I'll check it out. Thanks
Thanks Ethan. You saved me from writing out a comment. Although Trent is incorrect in quite a number of points I do appreciate him taking more time than most to research.
What's interesting about the LDS Church is that they claim they're the "restored" Church of the Apostolic Age. Yet, when you read the Apostolic Fathers (Ignatius mainly) and the Didache, we can see that the Church of the Apostolic Age has really no theological similarities. I recommend to every Mormon to read the Didache.
I'm just really curious how they explain their denial of pentecost
Great video! I also suggest you to do more on Seventh-day adventism, it would be great!
I’ll pass that suggestion along! -Kyle
Look up jimmy akin , he did mormonism , seventh day adventists etc etc
@@TheCounselofTrent Cool
@@noircc He did Ellen White, not SDA
The Egyptologist info on the above video needs to be updated. As Paul Gregersen demonstrates that Joseph Smith was right, the Egyptologists were wrong.
Thanks for the video. I was born and raised LDS. I also served a mission and taught about the Book of Mormon for two years. I'm 35 now and, for a variety of reasons that would be too long to list here, recently came to the conclusion that the book isn't what I thought it was/what it claims to be.
That conclusion has left me reeling because of it's implications, so I've been engaged in listening to a lot of apologetics recently while I try and piece my faith back together. Your channel has been refreshing and I appreciate you taking time to touch on this. Consider this a request for you to do more videos on the subject.
thanks for your testimony!
Biggens - As an active LDS member, I tell people that if their church had a better value proposition I would leave tomorrow. it's essentially a trade. I am promised exaltation, eternal marriage, temple worship, covenant blessings, spiritual inspiration, and physical protection...which I believe I have received in spades. What do I get if I trade that in to become Catholic, or join an online church like Apologia - or become agnostic/atheist? Where is the best long-term ROI for myself and the kids...do you have kids?
Were you able to trade up for something better? I'd be interested in a similar trade.
@MBiggens, I was a devout Latter-Day Saint my entire life. And when I say devout, I mean I was all in. Then I learned about Sacred Tradition and the Church fathers. I eventually came to the conclusion that either Christ's church was lost and had to be restored, or it had always been on earth just as he promised (Ephesians 5:29-30; Matthew 16:18; John 14:16, 18). It was at this point that I realized I had to address my concerns regarding the JST. In short, I found the Bible to be the most/only reliable book of scripture. Eventually after much studying and prayer, I was baptized into the Catholic church 2 months ago, at age 36. I wish you the best in your journey and I hope you will soon join us!
@@HaleStorm49 Shouldn't you believe true things rather than comfortable things?
@@rhamsesmartinez5007 Thanks for sharing! I've actually been attending mass for the past couple of months and plan to start RCIA in around September. My wife went through a similar process and has recently been baptized at a non-denominational evangelical church. It puts us in a strange situation, but I trust that God will do His own work in us and guide us to where we're supposed to be as long as we seek sincerely. Best wishes to you moving forward as well!
I'm LDS but I found this video very interesting and informative. You earned a sub.
Thanks for hearing him out. Even if you disagree, I think it is always important to hear out objections. God bless.
Love the line from the s t.the voyage home. Spock is mind melting with Gracie the blue whale is her name in the tank. Kirk to the whale specialist: " He did too much L.D.S in the sixtys. ". Thats what Roseanne Barr says too
@@ClobinWilliams So true. God bless you too.
EXCELLENT explanation Trent. Thank you for this fantastic material to educate all - not only Catholics.
Another former Mormon that became Catholic. Although Orthodox rather than Roman. I enjoy most of your stuff. Funny the way time changes things for us. If you were to say 10 years ago I’d be offering up prayers to Mary and the Saints I’d say you were crazy. My soul is finally at peace now. Love my Roman brothers!
What do you mean ?
Either you are part of the holy, saint, unique and universal Catholic church in one of its 24 rites (Roman(or Latin), and the 23 eastern rites (Maronite, Gueze, Greek-Catholique, Melkite, Syro-Malabar, ....) which indeed have an Orthodox faith.
Or you are part of the shismatic church that call itself orthodox and you are thus not part of the Catholic Church.
Well the official name of the church is “The Orthodox Catholic Church” and we say the Creed every week expressing the belief in one Catholic Church and talk to every Orthodox priest and they will say we are Catholic but what do I know?
@@Circle_Breaker73 Are you on communion with Rome ?
Knew some lovely Mormon folks in college. Friendly, well dressed, and pretty fun to hang out with. Eventually I did find the Catholic center so slowly stopped seeing them, but they weren’t too disappointed about it.
Even went with them to their temple down in Houston, which was…. Different for me. One of the guys told me he actually “stood in” for his deceased relatives there, something like 10 times he was ‘baptized’ in their place. Still don’t really understand how that became a practice with Mormons, but I feel that way about a lot of non-Catholic practices.
At the end of the day though, I do feel a bit sad for Mormons/LDS folks. Yes they seem happy and all that, but I just can’t understand how they can reconcile such strange ideas when compared to basic history. Catholics get the same accusation of course, but most of those accusations can be refuted with solid evidence if the accuser is willing to argue in good faith. Mormonism though, I just don’t see the same level 🤷♀️
It's a great question. Paul instructed disciples re:this practice in Corinthians chapter 15. Reconciliation comes with study and understanding. it actually makes sense if you try and figure out how someone could be condemned to hell for not having an opportunity to be baptized...which incidentally is how the practice of infant baptism began.
Why would God condemn innocent babies to hell, limbo, etc while a sinful baptized person is saved? Isn't this far harder to reconcile than the belief that everyone will have an opportunity to accept or reject the gospel of Jesus Christ and have a baptism performed on their behalf?
Human beings are loveable... I would never wish hell on anyone. Jesus saw each human being be a born innocent baby, they just grew up corrupted.
@@HaleStorm49Paul mentioning something is FAR from him supporting something.
Baptism does not make sense after death. If they are dead, they either get saved or not. If not, no prayer or ritual from third persons will help them.
@@alonsoACR Alonso he is not _mentioning_ it, he's instruction them in correct doctrine. If you reject it that's your choice.
@@HaleStorm49 Have you read the chapter? You cited the whole chapter so I guessed you did. He was not in the whole section teaching practices. It was debunking! Baptism was already discussed in other letters and it was clear the why and how.
Read it well: In that section he is first criticizing a specific heresy that believed that the unbaptized are annihilated at death - their soul just vanishes, nothing after. Jehovah's Witnesses is a modern heresy that advocates this, I believe.
Right after he says basically if there's no soul, what are you baptizing anyway?
The whole argument is about resurrection after death being FUNDAMENTAL to Christianity. "If Jesus was not resurrected, YOUR FAITH IS FUTILE"
So brother, much what we know of baptism is all over the Bible, it's just not in that part. The whole Bible makes it extremely clear: Salvation is YOUR responsibility. You cannot save others by proxy!
Why can't I then take a roster of the world's dead from the last 100 years and baptize them? Damn, let me baptize Hitler real quick, he'd go straight to heaven with no effort of his own!
Hey, Trent! Really love your channel! Always in for a treat when I watch your videos!
Great video format, as a Catholic I would love to see a "3 reasons I'm not Eastern Orthodox" video next.
Read the book, Russia and Universal Church. Vladimir was a russian orthodox who converted to Catholicism, he was one of the brightest minds of the east.
As an ex-Mormon and now (Evangelical Protestant) Christian, I would love to see further dialogue or debate between you and LDS apologists. I always really appreciate your reasoned approach even when I disagree with you.
It would be cool to have a part 2 where Trent addresses some of the rebuttals he's received by the Mormons in the comment section, especially those quoting scripture about the exaltation of men and the Trinity.
I think It's an interesting conversation for everyone. As a former member of the Mormon church going through RCIA, I've found that there is an abundance of Catholicism vs Protestantism discussion, but there's not a whole lot of in-depth critique of Mormonism from the Catholic prospective.
I understand Trent can't do a 3 hour podcast, but addressing some counter arguements and interpretations of the Bible that Mormons commonly give would be a fitting companion to this video.
I too was Mormon and was baptized Catholic just over a year ago! I had this same conversation with my husband who is a cradle catholic. He thinks the reason why there is not a lot of Catholic vs. Mormon videos out there rebutting the Mormon faith is bc a lot of Catholics have bigger issues with protestant faiths and wanting to bring the church back to its fullness since the schisms rather than the Mormon church which is not even part of the Christian denomination. The YT page God Loves Mormons has some great content but it does come from a Protestant perspective but I find it is still great information as it uses biblical evidence to explain different topics. Wish more Catholics would talk about it but not many Catholics have a good understanding of Mormonism. I find it’s hard to unless you grew up in it.
@@alyssaprice2511 I also figured Mormonsim is small potatoes in the scheme of things, but it's sad to see that when many people leave Mormonism they end up Atheist. My sister has also decided she doesn't believe in the LDS church (we sort of went on this journey together) and I fear she's gone down the Athiest tract.
So much of Mormon criticism includes progressive athiest ideology (Mormon Stories). I wish there was more targetted outreach from Catholics to Mormons.
I'm in Utah, so there's plenty of former member's teaching and going through RCIA at the parish I attend, so there's at least some community, but not a whole lot of online community.
@@sirshramp5934 I couldn’t agree more! Majority of people who leave the Mormon faith become agnostic or atheist. Small % become Christian.
I was invited to go on the Mormon Stories podcast and turned it down because I do not align with John’s lack of religion. He does have great information when it comes to the falseness of Mormonism but gets it terribly wrong with promoting agnosticism and atheism.
Yes, not many Catholics talk about the issues of Mormonism online and I think it’s a shame especially since people’s souls are at stake here.
I think it can be intimidating since Mormonism is a very hard religion to understand since it is a lot of mental gymnastics and a lot of the terminology is the same as Christianity but their words have different meanings.
It’s been on my heart to create a community online for this type of content that you and I are talking about so I may have to give it some serious thought. I wish there was more information from a Catholic perspective when I was leaving Mormonism.
@@sirshramp5934Shameless Popery did the series you asked for
@alonso19989 Yeah! I came accrossed him a few days before he did that episode on Trent's show.
I really like Joe's approach. Exactly what I was looking for!
My grandpa was a cradle Catholic and quite the character. When he was getting on in years he used to answer Mormons by saying, "Oh you're here to talk to me about the Angel Moron!" Playing it off as senility.
Imagine being there when he meets Moroni in the next life. Wonder how he'll play it off.
@@HaleStorm49it’s impossible to meet a being who does not exist.
Trent and Laura uploading on the same day? Yes, please! 😂
I am a former mormon, I am now an Orthodox Christian.
Thank you Trent. Very informative. God bless🙏
It is interesting to note that the 19th century had many groups that tried to get back to what they thought was the “original NT church,” and rejected all other existing denominations. The Reconstructionists were one such Christian group.
"We're the original"
>Gives zero evidence as to how they have the essence of Christianity
Your stuff is always helpful. Thanks
Jimmy Akin's episode of Joseph Smith is also very good.
THANKS TRENT! We had a Mormon Nanny, who made many of these points. This was extremely helpful.
Kudos to you for reading all these Mormon books. I can’t have this stuff living in my head. The Mormon faith is so confusing with no logical path. Thank you for trying to make sense of all of this for us.
@CathokicChickAZ: Spriit children and living on different planets “(celestial kingdom). Satan was Jesus’s brother. So sad
Who created satan then?
It's confusing because you are getting it from people who are confused. Not the best method for truth seeking
CatholicChickAZ, everything new can be confusing. If you keep learning the truth it will be less confusing, until it is not confusing at all.
Former member but it was the same plates just 116 pages were not translated. The plates were actually Brass. The reason I became Catholic is the fact the Book of Mormon teaches of Mary's sinless nature and in Transubstantiation, then in Doctrine and Covenants 20 Joseph Smith rejects Transubstantiation. My question then is if Mormonism is true, then why the conflict of scriptural teachings? Catholicism never conflicts with the teachings of the Apostles and Prophets. I then studied the keys of the kingdom, each key pointed me to the Catholic Church.
Latter-day Saint here: Thanks for being respectful.
Thanks for watching
Oof, Kwaku M. El is so freaking abrasive that he makes James White look downright cordial by comparison. Coming from an LDS family, I know the vast majority of LDS people are wonderful, but man, I cannot stand listening to Kwaku.
I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. We have scholars that give great answers to all these issues which Trent raises. I appreciate his honesty and sincerity. I once left my faith once after learning about these issues. My favorite scripture though is proverbs 3:5 which says to trust in the Lord with all thine art and lean not on thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him and he shall direct thy paths.” I’ve done that and I’ve overcome the craftiness of men and answered all my questions and issues. Nevertheless I get why people can’t get over these issues and I still love y’all. I enjoy the channel and find all these discussions interesting.
Thanks for this Trent. Had some Mormons come over and they wanted to come back tomorrow to explain their case more. Watching this and reading other material so I can be the best Catholic witness possible, and help kindly point them in the right direction and defend the True Faith.
Please pray for my godmother, for whom I'm named. She married a Mormon when i was a child and she left the Church. A couple years ago she revealed to me that the Catholic Church had hurt her "very badly." I didn't get a chance to ask her what happened, but around the same time i learned that young girls in her age bracket, who were all from families of little means, had been abused by the parish priest. This was before Vatican II, for what it's worth. Many of the girls were being raised by their dads after their mothers died, or their mothers were very ill and hospitalized for some length of time. Being a farming community, the mothers didn't work outside the home, but contributed majorly to the family's income because everybody in the family worked on the farm. My godmother was such a girl. She had been sent to live at the rectory for a time, according to some (as noted, I didn't have a chance to ask her). There was a convent on the other side of the church from the rectory, so I don't know why the girls wouldn't have been sent there instead of to the priest's residence, and nobody can explain why, they just insist that's what the arrangement was. Whether my godmother was a victim of abuse or not, something happened that hurt her emotionally very badly, to where she left the Church. My parents asked her to be my godmother because she was pious, devout, and faithful, and they wanted that for me. Please pray for her to heal and return to Holy Mother Church, and also please pray for the victims of that priest and for all victims of clergy abuse.
That must have been traumatic she needs proper counseling.. and I see now why she saw Catholic that way. But a single priest must not damage the whole church.. even where I came from I know priest who was held accountable and in jail.. in summary judge d person not d whole church because everyone is a sinner regardless of religion
“The Apostasy That Wasn’t” was an excellent book by Rod Bennett.
Yes!🙏🏻😀
About the necessity of monotheism, let me tell you one thing I found out. If you want to make a Hindu really angry, call him/her a polytheist. They will tell you that all the gods and goddesses to whom they pay honour are just aspects of the one and only God. There cannot be more than one, because the Lord, Ishwara, Bhagavan, is the Self of the universe. Polytheism always tends to this direction - you can find the same tendency in Greek philosophy.
InspiringPhilosophy's "The Case for Ancient Monotheism Documentary" video also sheds light on evidence for monotheism amongst aborigenal tribes from Australia.
Catholicism is the one true religion and church.
Very refreshing to hear good faith disagreements. Usually people will just smear and attack strawman arguments.
Former Mormon Missionary here who is currently in the RCIA. You did an excellent job with this video. I had a very harsh exit out of the Mormon church, a lot of familial and social backlash even to this day. All ex-mo's have different stories and experiences coming out of it. But we are all united in being so grateful that we left. Glory to God!
I grew up in a Mormon family. All my childhood I was told how Joseph Smith was a prophet that restored the true Church. Then as an adult I really started studying things like Doctrine & Covenants, and started feeling doubts. One day I watched a PBS documentary where I learned for the first time that blacks had been barred from the priesthood and the LDS prophet at the time, Gordon Hinckley, described the meeting where they made the decision. It caused a crisis of faith because the priesthood is a huge part of Mormonism. Wouldn't God have made such a big detail right from the beginning of a "restoration" of the Church? Then if you start digging into who Joseph Smith was you could really start to see the manipulation he exerted on people. Mormons are generally good people but they have been misled.
A major flaw of Mormonism is how they try to hide their history such as the Black issue.
The Mormon Great Apostasy is even worse than stated here. In Mormon Theology, the Church must people in the Office of Apostle, who have what they call the "Melchizedek priesthood." This is distinct from the "Aaronic priesthood" which they believe their bishops, elders, etc hold. The Melchizedek priesthood is necessary for ordaining new people; Aaronic priests cannot ordain. So the loss of the Apostles means the loss of the Melchizedek preisthood.
What this means for the Mormon Great Apostasy is that as soon as the last apostle dies without anyone in that office, you cannot ordain anyone else, meaning the church dies in one generation. You may note that none of the early church writings mention any sort of distress about the lack of an apostle office leading to the loss of valid ordination.
This leads to one of three potential conclusions. Either 1) the sin/heresy of the Church was absolutely irrelevant to the Great Apostasy, because even if they had not sinned the Church would have still lost priesthood authority from the death of the apostles; 2) the Church had gone almost entirely apostate while the Apostles were still alive such that they decided not to ordain any new Apostles (this would seem to contradict the existence of Titus, 1 and 2 Timothy, and the Philadelphian Church in Revelation 3:7-12); or 3) the Apostles were completely unaware that an office of Apostle was necessary to continue the priesthood.
To this last point, some Mormon apologists explain the loss of Apostles by saying they were unable to appoint successors due to getting martyred. Setting aside that Mormons believe John the Apostle is still alive so he should be able to ordain, the actions of the Apostles are much more consonant with a vision of spreading throughout the world ordaining bishops to continue succession, than needing to keep Apostle Office alive and sending out missionaries whose death would not cause the death of the entire Church.
You need to read Hugh Nibley, who wrote about this 70 years ago. Apostles and Bishops in Early Christianity.
Option 3. They were aware because they were Apostles and Christ taught them what was to occur. There are several verses in the NT that reference both the apostasy and the restoration of "all things" which includes things that have never been taught before in the last dispensation before Christ returns.
Just this morning was telling my husband about Medjugorje, the Marian apparition...he wanted to know to whom, to Joseph Smith??? No, Hunny. The Virgin Mary did not appear to Joseph Smith.
🫢
That was amazing content 👏
I’ll have to rewatch this!
I would really enjoy it if you would do some more shows on this topic. I have studied Mormonism quite a bit, but I have great difficulty in showing the errors.
I too became Catholic because the God of the Bible is clearly not the one Joseph Smith lays out. “Hear, O’Israel, the lord your God is lord ALONE.” That being said, they way Mormons behave is often more Christian than most Christians. Good people even though the beliefs are deeply flawed.
Well said, LDS are probably the most Christ-like people I've met.
Very nice people, very interesting beliefs🤔
Really appreciate this video.
Ah yes, Mormonism. It’s the Bible paid DLC Expansion pass, don’t you know?
Yeah, I'm getting tired of the microtransactions...;)
Great video Trent
13:12 yes unfortunately they try to hijack the term “Theosis”. Without the proper understanding of what the Church Fathers meant
Excellent stuff. Keep it up
I love videos about the LDS church. Such an interesting religion
Joseph Smith: this payrus was written by Abraham and it talks about Genesis.
The Papyrus: mummification for dummies
Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith.
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii it represents Abraham
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii Paul has no formal teaching in history let alone hieroglyphics or Egyptology so I think I will trust the actual educated people over someone who has made LSD induced videos on CZcams
@@davidlarssen15HAHAHA, priceless. Paul doesn't need to be an Egyptologist. As Joseph Smith, by revelation, translated the counterfeit (facsimiles) back to the true meaning.
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii So he needs to have no formal education in a subject to refute those who do this is why Mormonism is false they put aside all logic and irrefutable facts and just have faith because your heart says its true. JEREMIAH 17:9 - The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; Who can understand it?
Hey! Mormon here. You've made a lot of great content here and I've loosely followed you for a while now. Almost every single time I see a headline about Mormonism, it's almost a guarantee it's full of nonsense and misinformation. So honestly it was a relief to see that you actually attempted to depict our faith as accurately as possible. It's not hard to tell when someone has actually taken the time, and when they haven't. We tend to be an easy target or punching bag for larger Christendom so many tend to try to get away with half-baked research. I can tell you're acting in good faith though and I appreciate that.
There are a few mistakes/ambiguities I'd like to correct if I may:
- You said he had many spiritual wives, some of which were 14. For one, only a single one of these "wives" was 14, which was not considered wrong or especially unusual in his day. But further on that, she was only sealed to him for "eternity only". It may be helpful to understand how sealings worked at that time to understand why many of his "wives" were not wives in the way we picture them as sexual partners.
- You said after Martin Harris lost the 116 pages Smith translated from other plates. That's not really true as there was only one set of plates. Instead he was told to simply continue translating from the same set rather than going back. Perhaps that's how you meant it, but I think at the very least that can be confusing for some.
- On plurality of gods: We believe in a plurality of gods, sure...but only officially as a lowercase "g" god (which is how all publications spell it). Some Mormons speculate on "infinite regression" (God having his own Father and so on) but the Church itself does not embrace or teach that doctrine. It does embrace a version of theosis, however. But there is no official doctrine at all about multiple capital "G" Gods. Many LDS (including myself) do not agree with this speculative idea of infinite regress or multiple "Gods". Many of my arguments (though not all) are the same as the ones you gave. In fact the way you describe the Jewish concept of Yahweh is spot on my conception and the way I understand LDS doctrine.
- On the King Follett Discourse, a few things of note which are somewhat compounding: 1) It is not as a whole considered doctrine. Prophets are human and sometimes speak for God and sometimes speak for themselves...fallibly. This was a funeral discourse, not an official prophecy. That doesn't mean we can reject it outright, but rather it is not necessarily a reliable source of doctrine. 2) There was never an official transcript but many and there appear to be some disagreements on some of these especially controversial points of God once supposedly being mortal. 3) Many interpret the discourse to suggest God himself was exalted from his own mortality. That doctrine is not taught nor embraced by the Church, but is simply the result of speculation of rank-and-file members without authority to declare so.
- This one is nitpicky but...Lamanites is LAY-man-ahyts, and idk how you pronounced Zarahemla but it's just as it's spelled lol. That's more just a personal peeve haha.
Those are mostly doctrinal points I think need clarification. There are lots of things I could push back on regarding geography or God just being some superpowered alien, etc. but that's a whole discussion of its own. I hope these points can be helpful.
Again I can at least appreciate you critiquing and addressing this in good-faith and even-handedly. I'd be happy to discuss these topics with you, although I'd highly recommend you reach out to the channel "Thoughtful Faith" who is actually far more familiar with Catholicism and philosophy/theology more broadly as well as doing video discussions and debates. He's done thorough discussions on Trinitarianism and Creatio Ex Nihilo which you brought up before as well. Since you've given some critique of Mormonism, I hope you're willing to engage with some good-faith responses.
Despite some disagreements, I respect what you do 🙏🏻
Thanks for taking the time to write this! Good-faith criticism is always welcome here. I'll bring this one to Trent's attention. -Kyle
Still creepy, even if it is only one woman age 14!
@@TheCounselofTrent Much appreciated!
@@glennyskitchen9491 Understandable but again a few points on that:
1) Such young marriages were not uncommon for the early 19th century.
2) Her "marriage" to Joseph Smith was a sealing for "eternity only". Meaning there was little to no chance they actually had sexual relations.
3) Her parents were the ones that initiated and approved the whole thing with her approval as well. Consent all the way around.
4) Helen Mar Kimball was her name. She actually went on to very much defend her marriage and the institution of polygamy later in life. She was one of the strongest defenders of it.
All of which seems to me rebuts the "creepiness" of it.
G'day Brother Aelios, have you read the CES Letter yet?
Nothing screams "I have no sound and valid argument" like repeating the same word or phrase over and over with a smug smile on your face. You could tell the Mormon individual on the podcast was full of it. Thanks for calling out all this stuff!
They are programmed and don't use reason to argue. It is obvious when you try to speak to the Mormons that come to your door.
It is a fact that the non Lds wouldn't answer his question, talked over him, that was not a discussion it was a one sided lecture, and I am Catholic.
@@1Andelina1 His question was irrelevent to the point (as Trent discussed) and he was merely trying to overpower the other person.
This is very convenient, I just was talking to my SIL who has starting going to a mormon church because the missionaries are nice
Hey Adam, this nice serpent showed me some great fruit…
My inlaws are Mormon and I've always said that people join the church for the social structure, not the doctrines.
The social structure is amazing. Truly nice people with lots of activities going on, and excellent support of families.
But the doctrines........ 😬
@@scroogemcduckismyspiritanimalyou can't have one without the other...as most other churches have demonstrated while turning their nose at LDS theology.
@@HaleStorm49 no, there are very very many nice Protestant and Catholic churches too.
With lots of families building community, good structure, members helping each other grow in virtue.
So you can have the social structure without Mormon doctrine.
My point was that Mormons have definitely got that going for them....and that's what's attracting people cause the doctrine is illogical.
@@scroogemcduckismyspiritanimal thinking illogically is like bullying. You can see it everywhere except in the mirror. Jesus taught us that it's not the seed it's the soil.
Trent talking Thomism always makes my day.
I remember watching that debate between Dr. White and Kwaku. The “do you believe God can do miracles” argument is so disingenuous.
Hey Trent, thanks for this video! When are you going to finish the Trey the Explainer response? Please let me know, I want to see it.
Hellow as a orthodox, how about we unite again 🙌
I’m LDS and I love Trent’s content. He’s become one of my favorite apologists. That said, I have to correct one point. To say that Joseph Smith “died in a gunfight,” is like saying that the Central Park Jogger (a victim of gang rape) was injured in a Central Park sex party.
He was being held in tiny frontier jail with his brother and two other associates awaiting trial. They were told by the single jailer that a mob of men were planning to kill them. A friend of Smith managed to smuggle a pistol into the prisoners. A mob of 150-200 armed men, their faces painted black, stormed the jail and attacked. The 4 prisoners tried to fight back with the smuggled pistol and a single walking stick. Ultimately Smith and his brother were killed and the two others shot.
Calling that event a “gunfight” deliberately misleads.
Im sure that Trent has been informed by unfriendly LDS critics and hasn’t really fact checked. I wouldn’t expect him to.
So I offer this information as a friendly correction to good faith critics.
That doesn't matter. We know he fought plenty in Missouri and only got into that situation by wrecking the newspaper that spoke against him and declaring marshall law. In the nicest terms the guy was a complete rogue
@@president234
have you bothered to see why he ordered the destruction of that newspaper?
@@michaelangeloevans2722 I did. So what's your point?
@@president234
the reasons for calling for its destruction were legitimate
If you do debate a Mormon please do not debate Kwaku El. (the Mormon from the clip you showed debating the protestants) He is a random party planner who only gets invited to do debates because he has a social media presence and is willing.
I would recommend Robert S. Boylan who is a graduate of the Pontifical University of Ireland, and has published a few books on LDS thought. Behold the Mother of My Lord: Towards a Mormon Mariology was probably my favorite. He also used to be Roman Catholic, so he would be equipped to talk about differences in theology with out confusing common terms and words used between the two churches to say different things.
Well done ❤
Mormon here, and I think this is the most thorough and well-intentioned explanation of my faith (and of the critics to it) I have seen from someone of a different faith. There were a few points that made me wonder how serious you were about your critique (like Joseph Smith being all in on it for the women and power, and what seemed like a skepticism that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is indeed a "Church"). But overall, you let the facts stand for themselves rather than ascribing a malicious motive to my church like many others do.
In addition, I've watched many different Mormon apologists over the past 3 years and the one you featured in the James White debate is the one with whom I've had the most disagreements. He traps himself into defending some viewpoints that I would say are not consistent with Mormon doctrine, and I feel like he comes at a theological debate like a politician rather than a philosopher. He's fun to listen to at times and well-intentioned, but I don't think he's a good one to put as a standard of Mormon thought.
Being a member of the Church myself, there were several inaccuracies in this video that will give viewers, particularly non-members, false notions and ideas of what we actually believe. And much of what he shared and disagreed with he did so in ignorance. Whether he omitted and lied intentionally or not, I'm not sure, but it doesn't matter. The fact remains, viewers will get false ideas of the Church.
For me, I never listen to apologetics. The whole point of them is to prove your point right and the other wrong. I have seen them before and that's why I don't listen or watch them. The Spirit has never been there for me.
@@TheForgottenMan270 I recently rewatched this video and I did pick up on a few other things that I didn't pay attention to before. There's no doubt that people will get false ideas of what we actually believe from this video, but I still say Trent is the least malicious and most well-intentioned apologist out there. From his tone and content, I am confident it comes from ignorance and not malice.
To be honest, I don't listen to apologists to feel the spirit (for that I'd much rather listen to the Prophet and the Apostles). I do it to get a sense of why other people believe a certain doctrine, policy, or historical matter is the way it is so I can better adapt my own responses to concerns that people may have about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I've received my own answers on why things are the way the are (though I continue to seek revelation in case there is something more I'm missing), but my answers aren't exigent to everyone, especially if they aren't looking or for them.
Please make more videos about Mormonism!
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Jesus Christ (or a Mormon) and love this channel and am grateful for the respect you show despite our obvious disagreements. The only thing I would mention is that the King Follet sermon is not considered canon or scripture and that there is some disagreement on wheather or not God was once a man within the members of the church. I, for one, am in the camp that he has always been God like you do.
Once again, love your channel and will continue to watch!
We must continue to grow in faith throughout our lifetimes. God Bless You.
I would also strongly recommend the episode(s) of Jimmy Akin's Mysterious World that deal with Joseph Smith.
Can we get a debate between you and Kwaku El or anyone from Midnight Mormons?
The Joseph Smith and Mohammed stories are so eerily similar.
I’m glad someone else noticed this
Lutheran Satire made a video about it a while ago, it's called "a latter day re-gift" from about 11 years ago, they did a great job on it.
Especially that part where the first converts roamed and pillaged the continent trying to take over the world. So eerie.
@HaleStorm49 You are correct that as false, demon inspired religions go Islam is way more successful - a billion adherents vs 16 million. But it's early days for Mormonism. Maybe in 1500 years we'll be talking about the Mormonite Empire of the 2200s.
@@HaleStorm49Shhh... religion of peace...
Wow i didnt know the post-gold plates stuff. I thought they were Christians plus gold plates story. The "God was one of us" bit turns them into something else entirely.
No unmoved mover.
You should probably get some clarification from an actual member.
@@clearstonewindows
Ex member here. LDS are not Christians.
@@jeffs4483 We all know your Ex. Every post you make says "I have an axe to gride" You don't need to say it.
Hey Trent! I just watched Lila rose and Kristen Hawkins debate Destiny on the whatever podcast regarding abortion and it would be great to see you do a reaction video on what you would do differently and how you would respond to Destiny’s stance
Looking forward to more reasons video
If you're going to start addressing Mormon truth claims then you need to be willing to have discussions/ debates with the best scholars we have to offer. I'd suggest inviting Robert Boylan or Blake Ostler on your show.
I'll pass that suggestion along to Trent! Thanks! -Kyle
Thanks! I've read Boylan's blog and he has praised my work on pro-life and baptism. I'm open to maybe debating him in Utah if we can get scheduling figured out.
@@TheCounselofTrent Thanks. Engaging with you would be refreshing since we're so used to engaging with counter-cult ministries like Apologia.
@@TheCounselofTrent awesome! I'm LDS, but I think you're the most balanced fair apologist and I think it would be a great discussion.
@@TheCounselofTrent Jacob Hansen also will do debates, he has debated the Trinity and source of authority before. His CZcams channel is called Thoughtful Faith
Is it bad that I view Mormons as apologetics practice when I speak with them? It’s just so far out there that it’s a lot easier to refute than something like Protestantism which is closer to what we believe. Great video Trent!
_"It’s just so far out there that it’s a lot easier to refute "_ LOL I have refuted Catholicism multiple times and the Catholics I was discussing with never even came close and are unable to refute my Church.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is God's and Jesus Christ one and only true church here on earth. We know and teach the Bible and gospel better than any other denomination. To put it bluntly, the gospel every other Christian denomination (including the Catholic Church) teaches is a watered down version of what God's and Jesus Christ true gospel really is. The Catholics corrupted the gospel. Rejoin God and Jesus Christ in their Kingdom and rejoin their true church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and learn all that they have to offer. Learn of their glory and mercy, learn of the plan they have of you
@@dylanwilliams2202 I was going to ignore you until I've seen multiple messages from you preaching a false Church. For your claim to be true that JW have the true Gospel, you'd have to show that the JW Bible is uncorrupted but you can't. Because if you compare the JW Bible to a Hebrew or Greek interlinear, we should find a true translation, but we don't. Here is just one example.
Exodus 3:13-15 - Hebrew transliterated
[13] way·yō·mer mō·šeh ’el-hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm, hin·nêh ā·nō·ḵî ḇā ’el-bə·nê yiś·rā·’êl wə·’ā·mar·tî lā·hem, ’ĕ·lō·hê ’ă·ḇō·w·ṯê·ḵem šə·lā·ḥa·nî ’ă·lê·ḵem; wə·’ā·mə·rū-lî mah-šə·mōw? māh ’ō·mar ’ă·lê·hem?
[14] way·yō·mer ’ĕ·lō·hîm ’el-’mō·šeh, ’eh·yeh ’ă·šer ’eh·yeh way·yō·mer, kōh ṯō·mar liḇ·nê yiś·rā·’êl, ’eh·yeh šə·lā·ḥa·nî ’ă·lê·ḵem.
[15] way·yō·mer ‘ō·wḏ ’ĕ·lō·hîm ’el- mō·šeh, kōh-ṯō·mar ’el-bə·nê yiś·rā·’êl Yah·weh ’ĕ·lō·hê ’ă·ḇō·ṯê·ḵem, ’ĕ·lō·hê ’aḇ·rā·hām ’ĕ·lō·hê yiṣ·ḥāq wê·lō·hê ya·‘ă·qōḇ šə·lā·ḥa·nî ’ă·lê·ḵem; zeh-šə·mî lə·‘ō·lām, wə·zeh ziḵ·rî lə·ḏōr dōr.
Exodus 3:13-15 - English translation of the Hebrew interlinear
[13] And said Moses to God, suppose I come to the sons of Israel and shall say to them the God of your fathers has sent me to you. And they say to me what [is] His name? what shall I say to them?
[14] And said God to Moses, I AM who I AM, and He said thus you shall say to the sons of Israel I AM has sent me to you.
[15] And said moreover God to Moses, thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, Yahweh God of your fathers - the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob has sent me to you. This [is] My name forever, and this [is] My memorial to all generations.
Exodus 3:13-15 - JW NWT 2013
[13] But Moses said to the true God: “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your forefathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is his name?’+ What should I say to them?”
[14] So God said to Moses: “I Will Become What I Choose to Become.” + And he added: “This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘I Will Become has sent me to you.’”+
[15] Then God said once more to Moses:
“This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham,+ the God of Isaac,+ and the God of Jacob,+ has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever,+ and this is how I am to be remembered from generation to generation.
Exodus 3:13-15 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Ed.
[13] Moses said to God: Lo, I shall go to the children of Israel, and say to them: The God of your fathers hath sent me to you. If they should say to me: What is his name? what shall I say to them?
[14] God said to Moses: I AM WHO AM. He said: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: HE WHO IS, hath sent me to you.
[15] And God said again to Moses: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me to you: This is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
Exodus 3:13-15 RSVCE
[13] Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?”
[14] God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” [a][b] And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I am has sent me to you.’”
[15] God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord,[c] the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you’: this is my name for ever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.
[a] Exodus 3:14 Or I am what I am or I will be what I will be
[b] 3.14 The translation is uncertain; it is, therefore, difficult to decide whether this is a refusal to disclose the name or an explanation of the divine title Yahweh revealed immediately afterward.
[c] Exodus 3:15 The word Lord when spelled with capital letters, stands for the divine name, YHWH, which is here connected with the verb hayah, to be
In the Hebrew text of this passage, when God first answers Moses’s question as to what his name is, in verse 14, he says, ehyeh asher ehyeh is his name, which translates as “I am that I am.” But notice God then tells Moses, in that same verse, to tell “the sons of Israel I AM has sent me to you.” There, God says his name is more simply ehyeh, or “I AM.” Then, in verse fifteen, he declares to all that his name forever will be YHWH, commonly read and spoken as Yahweh, which translates basically the same as ehyeh asher ehyeh-“I AM THAT I AM,” or “I AM WHO AM,”. Yahweh, it would seem, was revealed as God’s formal name while the essence of his name, or the shorter version, if you will, is revealed simply as I AM. Metaphysically, this name reveals God to simply be. He has no beginning, no end, no lack of being; He is all perfection. He is existence itself. And this is his name.
The New World Translation’s is "I Will Become What I Choose to Become" - I can't wait for you to explain how two Catholic translations are true to the text while your "Church" has falsified God's words.
Show me which word of the Hebrew corresponds with which English word of NWT.
@@alisterrebelo9013 I think the guys a mormon not a JW.
It far out there and ridiculous. Mormon, Jehovah's witnesses etc. I personally don't have an issue with the prots either. Not the sharpest tools.
Trent, I'd like to talk to you about 1 Cor. 10:16. How can we arrange that?
Lookin' good, bruh. Trim and fit. 💪
Hey Trent. How would counter a point saying, “well we may know where Jerusalem is, but no one agrees as to where the garden of Eden was either.”? Also, I would like to hear you debate a Mormon or continue these in depth explanations. I have a few Mormon friends, some who want to engage with me in discussion and others who don’t. Either way, I’ve found it very hard to understand the religion, and this video helped a lot. I feel like more of this would be very helpful
There were no maps when Adam and Eve existed so how would we have have a map of the Garden of Eden?
@@twoody9760 because the argument would be that, and I can’t specifically remember, but a lot of the places spoken about in the stories of the Book of Mormon would have also not had maps at the time, idk though, that’s why I’m asking. Like if you think about historically the native Americans weren’t literate and did not use physical maps like we do, so that would be their argument as well
The Garden of Eden was a garden at the beginning of time occupied by two people. The Nephites and Lamanites were supposedly continent spanning civilizations that existed for 1000 years until around 400AD. Not really the same thing. The absence of any archeological evidence for the Nephite cities is, shall we say, highly conspicuous.
@@BaremetalBaron great point! Thank you!
I was raised Mormon and must admit I'm no longer one but I do believe that the insistence that Mormons aren't Christian is hurting all Christians, we can learn alot from each other
Well said.
Ex Mormon here. No, they are not Christians.
They objectively are not Christians. This is not up for debate.
It doesn't hurt us at all. It is a helpful distinction. The theological gap between the two is too great to not warrant a distinction.
@@jeffs4483 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the *Most* Christian. I know I would be lying if I tried to admit otherwise.
Would love to see a video about the supernatural claims you mentioned at 2:02 :)
Dang, I think this is the earliest I've watched a video after it came out. Video says posted 52 seconds ago😂.
Joseph smith was unfathomably based
Thank you ! very well done. the truth prevails once more !
I am not Morman because it makes no sense. Addition: While I haven’t changed my mind about Mormanism making no sense, upon reflection, your summary helped me to understand something that has always bugged me; why protestants, particularly evangelicals, usually throw Catholicism & Mormanism into the same bucket on the basis that they think Catholics treat the Trinity, BVM & saints as mutliple gods, which is not the doctrine of the Church, but you know how arguing with a stone wall goes. I found a recent survey on religion that showed while adherence to a/any religion in the west is declining, Catholicism seems to be holding its own. While obviously there are many variables at play in that (particularly given that the Church hierarchy is bereft of quality & faithful clerics) I have been struck by what appears to be an interesting trend - conversion to Catholicism. For a while I thought it was just me, but the other day Church Militant ran a piece on the number of people (some high profile) converting. Again given the current state of the clergy, one has to assume the attraction is in the dogma, which has certainly stood the test of time, certainly more so than Mormanism. On last point, I thought the clip you played on the ‘debate’ interesting. When all logic/reasoning failed, the only thing the Morman had left was miracles, which, based on his behavior, falls into the category that if you repeat something often enough, it becomes true. Anyway, thanks for the segment.
You totally have missed what Protestants believe about the Trinity: and the Catholic Trinity is very similar to the Protestant Trinity: Mormonism is vastly different from any trinitarian ✝️Christian tradition.
Have you considered mirroring your videos on platforms like Odysee or Rumble? It is easy to do and can help limit your reliance on CZcams
The point of “you believe in extraordinary and supernatural things, why is this thing not extraordinary?” seems like a reasonable argument.
Trent, can you please debate (or do a response video to) the CZcamsr / Streamer “Destiny” about abortion? His main argument is that only consciousness should be protected, but I’ve not seen any competent pro lifers debate him
So what about someone in a coma? Can they be killed under that view?
Lila rose is competent, so is Kristen. I haven't watched it, but I've heard they just had one. Y'all act like the question is difficult. Anyone can take care of it easily. If consciousness is all that matters, in other words being aware of your surroundings/who you are, then we better start killing those who sleep, those in a coma, those unconscious, those under anesthesia should be fair game etc. That's why the line can't be drawn there. Obviously, the issue here isn't whether someone is conscience or not. The issue is that it's murder (the unjust killing of a human being)
@@angelalemos9811 Watch the debate. It does not make Lila or Kristen look competent. Lila Rose in particular kept speaking over Destiny and Kristen and refused to answer questions put to her. Destiny tied them both up with nots.
I agree with you about consciousness, but I can see Destiny arguing that the difference between people in the situations you mentioned is that they are all humans with fully-formed brains who are unconscious, whereas an embryonic unborn child does not have a brain capable of consciousness. Your "the issue isn't whether someone is conscious or not" wouldn't defeat his argument because according to him, an embryo is not a 'someone' yet.
One of the odd things about Mormonism is that the Book of Mormon has some verses with trinitarian/monotheistic language.
2 Nephi 31:21 - "...And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen."
Mormon 7:7 - "...unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end."
Alma 11:26-29 - "And Zeezrom said unto him: Thou sayest there is a true and living God?
And Amulek said: Yea, there is a true and living God.
Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God?
And he answered, No."
“Zeezrom” lol. I couldn’t come up with a funnier made up name.
@@kidus_1010 True lol
@@kidus_1010 Joseph Smith _made up_ more names in 3 months than Shakespeare did in his entire life. Could you do that?
@@HaleStorm49yes, I could.
Time-stamp
0:18, 0:55 - Is Mormon persecution comparable to the persecution of the disciples?
14:35 - Isaiah 43:10, Trent Horn argues that false gods and idols cannot be in view here because many are still being formed to this day.
19:00, 21:00 - Book of Abraham
I'd love to watch more videos from your perspective about mormons. I'm Catholic and was raised Catholic but then I questioned it after I read the Book of Mormon. Although I believe it is false there are some times where I still have those "what ifs".
Dont let the Book of Mormon fool you. If you knew who Joseph Smith really was… you’d run. First, you would have to no longer believe in the Trinity. Believe that Mary was a regular sinful person like me and you, and that Lucifer is Jesus’ brother! And I mean literally! They believe Jesus was a begotten son and not The Only begotten Son! Their doctrine believes that God the Father, had sexual relations with Mary and that’s how Jesus was conceived! I mean it disgusts me to even type it to you! It’s sooo blasphemous! I am a former six gen Mormon. I was devout for 33 yrs. Very active and Thank the Lord Jesus that he lead me out! 🙏🏻😀 I know you couldn’t leave your precious faith for that! So no more “what if’s “ my sister in Christ! Blessings to you! ❤️ 😄
@@elizabethking5523 hey I appreciate the response I quit reading the bom, im not a woman though lol. God Bless
@elizabethking5523
Impressive... Every single point you made is false. None of them represent LDS beliefs at all.
@@elizabethking5523source: trust me bro 😂
Reason 4: ☕️
Apparently, there’s some controversy on this one in LDS circles. I brought this one up at work once mentioning that since I grew up around a lot of LDS (my grandfather’s sister married one of Orrin Hatch’s nephews), I thought having caffeine-free Dr Pepper around all the time was normal. When I mentioned that the LDS members can’t have caffeine, an LDS coworker, and BYU grad, quickly corrected me on this. All of that is anecdotal, obviously, but there are at least some Mormons that are ok with caffeine. -Kyle
Reason 4: it was revealed to me in a dream
@@TheCounselofTrentyeah, caffeine is nowhere mentioned as something you shouldn't have
@@lukehanson_Am I correct in thinking that Doctrine and Covenants prohibits consuming hot drinks? I read it 30 years ago when I was a Catholic missionary in Japan and came across Mormon missionaries on several occasions. I thought I recalled reading that prohibition.
@@ConnieRossini Yes, but prophets have clarified that means coffee and tea. Hot chocolate and similar drinks have always been fine
Biggest reason for me is that Mormons don't believe Christ is God. They believe he is a being created by God. John 1:1 tells us that isn't true.
We believe Christ is God
@@spideyN8R Wrong. They do not believe Jesus was God in the flesh but was a preexisting spirit child of God the Father and Heavenly Mother. In fact, they believe that Jesus and Satan are both spirit children of God and are brothers. These beliefs are not consistent with believing that Christ is God. Mormonism simply isn't Christianity. It's something else.
Man, I used to be Mormon and the teach jeans that I learned were very, very corrupted not only that they taught that we could become gods one day, but the thing was I didn’t feel the spirit of God so I love the church and then I found myself into protestant where they talk about faith alone yeah I felt God in that, but it wasn’t the full truth, but the spirit of truth or Holy Spirit Brought me back home to the Catholic Church
Great video! But I've noticed in my discussions with Mormons on the first point that Mormons will claim that the King Sermon is not canonical and merely a speculative grasping at the higher realities of God.
Trent, could you do a video on megachurches/nondenoms and what you think of them? They seem to be creeping up more and stealing away people. And they have huge sunday attendances. How is that? How can we bring that into our churches?
It’s because they are all about entertaining, not true worship. I believe if Jesus visited one of them, he would take a whip out and knock the coffee shops over.
I do not like the megachurches because they are all about being the motivational speaker for their own glory. That is my opinion at least
Would be very interesting to see you debate a LDS or Jehovah's witnesses apologist. I'm sure you would win, but it'll be a great watch.
I don't think they have them lol
Can we get a video explaining the orthodox cannon’s apocrypha and why it’s wrong?
So, I have a couple of Mormon friends who would say that some of these teaching aren't really approved by the church, how would you answer to that?
God bless you Trent and Our Lady keep you safe!
Like what teaching?