"God created Mathematics." - After 50 Years, I'm now able to let my Jr. High math teachers off the hook. 😳 Fascinating. I prob'ly don't understand the 1/2 of it ... But it's Fascinating.
OMGOSH 🤓 This was absolutely fascinating. I am terrible at Math but this was amazing to watch. So created in the mind of God before humans were created. God is amazing.
Hi. I haven't seen this whole video so I may be wrong, but did Dr. Lesle ever mention Mr. Mandelbrot, the gentleman who discovered the set while employed by IBM? It just seems to me he should be given some credit. Thank you for the program!
@@deepaklal5412 There is no holographic universe. Besides, you need to answer where the people who made the holgraphic universe came from and you just repeat the giant cycle of avoiding God. Repent of your sins and seek the face of God before it is too late!
Donn Chapman, I need for you to answer this question for me, please. In your presentation of a young Earth, you seem to equate the words of Gen.1:1, that declare;........."In the BEGINNING God created", ....as referring to the actual creation of the Heavens, ( Heb. "Shmim", plural ) and the Earth. ( some 6200 plus years ago ) Since this "Beginning", according to your beliefs and public presentation, refers to the six days of "Creative Acts" about 6200 years ago, my question to you is this; WHEN WAS LUCIFER CREATED ??? ( as Lucifer was already a fallen Angel, when ADAM was "Created" ) Morgan Sorensen ( Biblical Theologian )
The Bible doesn’t give an exact time of Lucifers creation or of his fall but does give some clues. Paul says in Colossians that God/Christ created all things. We do know he fell from heaven and was placed in the Garden of Eden. I believe Lucifer saw God make Adam and Eve and was horrified. God said since you disobeyed me I'm going to create something to give me a PRAISE and the story continues.
@@larryroberts8809 If we assume that angels (including Satan) were part of the creation of Genesis 1:1, then their fall (including Satan’s) follows that point. However, it may be that angels were created prior to the creation of the heavens and the earth. In either case, angels (including Satan) were present when God “laid the foundation of the earth” and “set its measurements” Job 38:4, 5, for it was then that the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy (Job 38:7). This involved all the angels rejoicing with God. Satan and his angels fell, then, sometime after the original creation of the heavens and the earth. It is certain that Satan had fallen before Genesis 3 where the temptation of Adam and Eve is recorded.
I am not trying to assume what I think. I am reading what is in the bible I have. It says" in the beginning" not after God made the heavens and angels. I can only go on what God put for mankind to understand. You may see it different then me . Until my GOD calls me home then I will be in his presence, in his house . if he wants to give me the knowledge of which came first (earth )(Adam and Eve)( heaven and angels) or all made in his time not ours. All I can say when he first made the creation in 7 days according to my bible all was good. To me that 8 day and after would/could be when angels fell and life became complicated for us to know exactly what is. Some people believe Eve and devil had sex and Cain is their offspring( I don't) some people believe Jesus and Magdalene had children( I don't). So it is not for me to tell you what is the correct way of creating creation we all have to see the light when God makes it bright enough for the truth.may you find the truth. I will continue to search my bible and for the truth that is God's. May Jesus light the way for as it is written. Jesus words; " I am the truth and the light . who ever follow me will have eternal life".
@@larryroberts8809 Lucifer and the Angels watched God create the heaven and earth so if Lucifer rebelled in heaven how long was he actually in heaven? A 1/3 of the angels got cast out with him. The angels were created before the earth (Job 38:4-7). Satan fell before he tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden (Genesis 3:1-14). Satan’s fall, therefore, must have occurred somewhere after the time the angels were created and before he tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Whether Satan’s fall occurred hours, days, or years before he tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden, Scripture does not specifically say. Job 38:4-7 KJV Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Hmm... certainly interesting, though personally I don't see that it has a strong connection to creation. I'm a creationist minister myself, and studied advanced mathematics, not as highly as Dr. Lisle, but I studied through calculus, so at least enough to see a lot of formulas, graph plots, etc. Fractals certainly are fascinating, and beautiful when plotted, but I always analyze from the point of view of a skeptic, because they're going to ask questions, and we're supposed to have an answer. And I don't see how logically one can conclude that mathematical formulas only work because of God. Hypothetically, IF evolution were true (which I don't believe, but just for sake of argument) there would still be numbers, because numbers, to me, are merely a logical result of calculating matter. If I have 5 fingers, whether I count them 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or I, II, III, IV, V etc, the label changed, but the concept didn't. Similarly, the fractal charts merely discover interesting phenomena that occur, but the concepts that govern the numbers (addition, subtraction, multiplication, division) are natural concepts. I think other concepts like Gravity for instance, can logically be attributed to God, or other things that if Zeus or something was in charge, we could not count on a rational universe operating under a set of standard governing laws. But I don't see how numbers fall into that same category. Still very interesting, I'm just curious how someone would attempt to defend it against a skeptic that says numbers just do what numbers do, the fact that it is pretty on a graph is irrelevant.
"interesting, though personally I don't see that it has a strong connection to creation" Some of the elements of the Mandelbrot set have a known similarity to plant growth patterns as well as other animal forms, similar to the Fibonacci sequence. Other fractals simulate lightning and other natural branching patterns. It seems there's a strong possibility of a connection here between number formulas and the shapes God used in his creation. Of course, I am open to this possibility because I already believe, but for someone on the other side it may be a matter of God not opening their eyes yet. "I don't see how logically one can conclude that mathematical formulas only work because of God." Maybe logic isn't the thing to use here. Math certainly came from God - either created during creation week or perhaps part of His nature - so it must be "very good." Also, I don't see too many animals thinking about math. The formulas work because God gave us the understanding. "the concepts that govern the numbers (addition, subtraction, multiplication, division) are natural concepts." Do you mean they exist of themselves? "But I don't see how numbers fall into that same category. " Numbers seem to be very important to God, as He chose specific ones for important values - 144,000 sealed, 12 tribes, 12 disciples, 70 weeks, forgive 70 X 7, etc. The fact that something as tremendous as gravity can be represented by such a simple force equation tells me that numbers carry a lot of weight. "I'm just curious how someone would attempt to defend it against a skeptic that says numbers just do what numbers do, the fact that it is pretty on a graph is irrelevant." Most skeptics/atheists that I have encountered hide behind a facade of logic or apparent lack of evidence when the real reason they don't believe is because they simply don't want to - a subtle arrogant rebellion. They are not willing to make the connection. I had a teacher in college that told me, "People say a rose's beauty tells them God created it, but it doesn't say that to me," and she was content to just sit there, stare into space and chain smoke with a deadened spirit. You have a point that these mathematical graphs are a stretch to use as evidence, but they may work for some people. They are good to bolster the faith of those who already believe. They certainly spark my spiritual curiosity, and I look for God to open the eyes of those who don't see His handiwork yet.
James E Good points. First off, I'm actually a speaker on creation science, so I'm coming from that view, but as such I'm also looking at how would a skeptic see it. I've since this video seen some more in depth studies by Dr Jason Lisle comparing the similarities to what some might call mathematical anomalies to things we actually see in nature, like snowflakes, frost patterns, ferns, etc. and that certainly generated some interesting thoughts. So my points were merely, as an objective of logically defending the faith, I don't know that just this data alone is compelling, though adding the naturally occurring fractal patterns certainly does strengthen the argument. Of course, as a speaker, I understand that time is the biggest enemy. There's only so much than can be covered.
Could you direct me to the more in depth studies by Lisle? You are probably right from a logic standpoint that this data alone is not enough. I'm thinking logic + something else, like an open heart or the work of the Holy Spirit. I have seen evangelists reach people by bypassing their logic completely through more of a perspective of common sense, and convicting them of their sin and need of help.
James E I'm on my way out the door or I'd get some links, but I think the video was called The Secret Code of Creation by Dr Jason Lisle, or something close. He also had great teachings on logic.
"Mathematics are the language with which God wrote the universe." -Galileo Galilei Never try to convince a skeptic. You cannot convince a skeptic. It's an exercise in futility. I repeat to emphasize, you can NEVER convince a skeptic. Do not try. Each one of us MUST come to God of our own will. You can lead a horse to water, but you CAN'T make the horse drink. You can try to teach a dog that 1 + 1 = 2, you can try it in every method you can think of and think up. The dog will NEVER learn. First it must be a human being. THEN it might learn it. Dogs don't know math. Skeptics don't know God. Don't "answer" skeptics. They have no idea what they're asking. They're parrots. You don't talk with a parrot.
Were you there to witness the plagiarism? No. The bible was passed down through oral tradition before people could actually write. You don't think Adam and Eve told thier kids about what happened in the Garden? Same with Noah. Ofcourse they did just like you have stories within your family even today.
Imaginary Numbers? They logically can not be real. The real square root of a negative number could be real however. Suppose you had seven missing brain cells. Is square root of seven 2.64575131106 ? Then perhaps that many of them mated and multiplied by eating other cells.
Computer software cannot exist without the use of negative numbers. Negative numbers do not need to exist in order for them to be applied to real life. Real numbers do not exist, either positive or negative. They are all just concepts used by beings like us with minds to quantify and organize the world around us. You can't calculate advanced sciences without using very complex mathematical formulas that go beyond what you may think could be "real." Imaginary numbers, for example, can help us understand ideas in quantum theory, the structure of plants and snowflakes, and so on. It's arguable whether this is proof of God or not, but such a notion shouldn't incite you to refute the mathematical concept itself.
Oh, OK, so out of chaos we got math and the rest of the laws of nature? How did we get chaos, even? How did we get anything by naturalism? Rather ironic that you call Dr. Lisle willfully ignorant when it's you that is.
@@2fast2block Yup. Dr. Lisle nails it on the head when he says that the (metaphysical) naturalist CANNOT account for the complexity and beauty of mathematics, indeed they cannot account for mathematics itself or any other concept, much less any feature of a concept. According to a naturalist "it just happens that way". Every thought ever, every point of view, every opinion, every idea just happen to emerge out of nature. Out of nothing, out of chaos. Complexity comes out of... complexity, oh but ultimately guess what, it comes out of nothing! At best it's a circular, meaningless argument.
@@nineblessednineadorednined9214 , very well-said. As you pointed out, "oh but ultimately guess what, it comes out of nothing!" It's because their god if the god of nothing. I tell them: I HATE your god, the god of nothing. Your god claims to have created the universe, fine-tuning of the universe for life, life from non-life, information for life before and after it began, the laws of nature, etc, etc, when we know that your god of nothing can do nothing. Your god of nothing has nothing to offer and its followers only offer nothing of evidence for their god of nothing. That makes them nothing of importance but the followers of the god of nothing are so delusional that they think they do have something to offer to defend their god of nothing. The atheist prayer to their god of nothing. "Oh, god of nothing, we deny you exist, and you don't, but we have no choice to declare you our true god if we're honest, but we're not. Please god of nothing, help us to continually grow in offering no science to support you because there is none, but nonetheless, we devote our lives to you and will do the best act we can, no matter how pathetic, no matter how embarrassing, no matter how much evidence is against us, we will use the various tactics, like our biggie, the god-of-the-gaps. It's our credit card whenever we're getting bitch-slapped silly with science." The god-of-the-gaps credit card issued to all followers of the god of nothing religion. Does a supernatural God exist? No! The god of nothing created the universe that defied nothing doing nothing, and the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics. How did we get the laws of nature? They just came on their own through chaos by the god of nothing. It's all so simple and clear to us atheists by our famous god-of-the-gaps credit card. Can't come up with a logical answer based on science, no problem, we just use the god-of-the-gaps credit card. It has no limits on how often it's used and how it answers nothing. Just say, god-of-the-gaps, and you could be one of us atheist wannabe intellectuals, too. You can even have the gall to say we follow science. There are no monthly fees, no logic needed, no honesty, and again, NO science, just four simple words answers all these extremely complex questions with, god-of-the-gaps. So live mindlessly, give up any critical thinking skills and just relax because you're covered by the god-of-the-gaps credit card issued by the god of nothing to all dumbasses who refuse to think and be honest with the evidence. (Note: Penalties WILL CERTAINLY apply. The god of nothing has nothing to help you with when you meet your real Maker, the God of the bible, because you chose to ignore the CLEAR evidence for Him.) Members who have been with us for a while and show dedication to their god of nothing will also get to use these credit cards:- The 'we don't know just yet but science is working on it' card. A great one to use acting as if you have science yet with no science on your side. -The "big daddy in the sky/spaghetti monster/invincible man/imaginary friend/(and any sarcastic name)' card. Use it to try to act as if you're smart but have no explanation, yet need to fill in space. Great word fart filler. -The 'religion vs science' card. Used to make it sound that it's you that has science even though it's you that has no science and going on blind faith. -The 'no reputable scientists believes that' card. Used when your scientists follow the god of nothing and show such pathetic science that is laughable and so easily disproven. -The 'bible expert' card. This is when you quote scripture and say how horrible the true God is even though you don't know what you're talking about. Be careful they don't ask how you got past the first verse of the bible to claim you know the bible because the god of nothing only has nothing as its answer with science about a natural creation. ALL the evidence is for a supernatural creation. Remember, huff-and-bluff is your friend. -The 'creationist/creatard' card. Ranks up there in use with the god-of-the-gaps card. Use this even though you have nothing to explain how creation could happen naturally but want to sound as if you do. -The 'people used to believe the flat earth/(whatever you can make up) but science figured it out' card. A good one to use to distract from the topic even though it's not true and it's you that has nothing to offer on the topic. -The 'that's not part of evolution' card. Very important one even though we use biogenesis often to illustrate goo-to-you evolution, we made a rule it's not part of it no matter how much it really is! -The 'atheism is not a belief' card. This gives you the free pass to make as many bold claims (beliefs) as you want and don't have to back them up. No matter how CLEAR it is you have beliefs, you simply deny it. -The 'burden of proof is on you' card. Very similar to the 'atheism is not a belief' card. It also allows you to make bold claims and yet feel as if you don't have to back them up with proof. -The 'who created God' card. Sure, it's a stupid question since the supernatural God created the natural realm, therefore, is not subject to natural laws the supernatural God created, but who cares, it may work. -The 'you're brainwashed' card. Pay no attention that it's the people of the god of nothing religion that allowed themselves to be brainwashed; use it anyway because our religion cares nothing about fair and honest. -The 'religion causes most wars' card. In 5 millennia worth of wars-1,763 total-only 123 (or about 7%) were religious in nature. If you remove the 66 wars waged in the name of Islam, it cuts the number down to a little more than 3%. Yet, due to our god of nothing's religion, has the secular body count at more than 100 million...in the 20th century alone. As always, never concern yourself with facts, just defend the god of nothing regardless. -The 'I used to be a Christain' card. Even though there is rightfully much to bitch about in religions that were man-made, just look at it as an excuse to join the god of nothing religion and be brain-dead.
@@2fast2block It's a nice hefty read but I enjoyed it, thanks. :) And you're absolutely right. In fact, and I think you might be consciously aware of this, because you're certainly showing to be spiritually aware, "god of nothing" is a very good moniker for it, because the children of the god of nothing are precisely that, nothing. In a way they're not really alive, they don't really exist. This world is a world in which you have a chance to be born spiritually. This is why God is the God of Life (and in a way also the God of Death, the God of Natural Death, which should really be called Birth, that's why They're the God of the Living and the Dead, the God of those who are Alive, the God of those who are Born). This world is like an egg. Some people make it and they're born to true life. Some don't, sadly. They were never really alive. They never really existed. Still, we shouldn't judge people, remember. Only God can judge them, He judges them by their heart.
Wow I’m stunned! God is so amazing!! Praise Jesus!
Jesus Christ is not God
This is the most amazing video I’ve ever seen!!! Praise God
IF I SAID THE NAME FOR THE ATOM THAT CREATTED THINGS IS GOD AND WE PERCIVES GOD IN DIFFERANT WAYS LIKE PROTOMS CREAT DIFFERANT THINGS
Roy that does even make sense
"God created Mathematics." - After 50 Years, I'm now able to let my Jr. High math teachers off the hook. 😳
Fascinating. I prob'ly don't understand the 1/2 of it ... But it's Fascinating.
OMGOSH 🤓 This was absolutely fascinating. I am terrible at Math but this was amazing to watch. So created in the mind of God before humans were created. God is amazing.
I am no Mathmetician, but this is fascination! Are the Mandelbrot Set and the Fibonacci Sequence related in some special way?
God the original mathematician
😇😇😇✝️👍
Hi. I haven't seen this whole video so I may be wrong, but did Dr. Lesle ever mention Mr. Mandelbrot, the gentleman who discovered the set while employed by IBM? It just seems to me he should be given some credit. Thank you for the program!
Why comment when you didn’t watch the whole video 💀 what’s wrong with you 😂
Someone pointed out that the mandelbrot image is exactly the same shape as the budda statue. And it is uncanny the similarities!
@@deepaklal5412 There is no holographic universe. Besides, you need to answer where the people who made the holgraphic universe came from and you just repeat the giant cycle of avoiding God. Repent of your sins and seek the face of God before it is too late!
What a coincidence
I wonder how many other Mandelbrot like sets are undiscovered? Could it be trillions?
My head is still trying to grasp those concepts....and I'm not a stupid or uneducated person.
just playing with numbers that can mean anything u wish
so god could be a number of numbers what did i say about numbers
man created numbers not god
numbers are not proteins they r found in nature
computers aRE ONLY AS GOOD AS THE PERSON WHO PROGRANS THEM
Wow! I feel like I’m tripping! This just confirmed my shrooms theory 🙌🏾
Nice
Fibonacci sequence
Donn Chapman, I need for you to answer this question for me, please.
In your presentation of a young Earth, you seem to equate the words of Gen.1:1, that declare;........."In the BEGINNING
God created", ....as referring to the actual creation of the Heavens, ( Heb. "Shmim", plural ) and the Earth. ( some 6200 plus years ago )
Since this "Beginning", according to your beliefs and public presentation, refers to the six days of "Creative Acts" about 6200 years ago, my question to you is this; WHEN WAS LUCIFER CREATED ??? ( as Lucifer was already a fallen Angel,
when ADAM was "Created" )
Morgan Sorensen ( Biblical Theologian )
The Bible doesn’t give an exact time of Lucifers creation or of his fall but does give some clues. Paul says in Colossians that God/Christ created all things. We do know he fell from heaven and was placed in the Garden of Eden. I believe Lucifer saw God make Adam and Eve and was horrified. God said since you disobeyed me I'm going to create something to give me a PRAISE and the story continues.
When God finished making creation he said all is good
Lucifer would had to fallen after
@@larryroberts8809 If we assume that angels (including Satan) were part of the creation of Genesis 1:1, then their fall (including Satan’s) follows that point. However, it may be that angels were created prior to the creation of the heavens and the earth. In either case, angels (including Satan) were present when God “laid the foundation of the earth” and “set its measurements” Job 38:4, 5, for it was then that the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy (Job 38:7). This involved all the angels rejoicing with God. Satan and his angels fell, then, sometime after the original creation of the heavens and the earth.
It is certain that Satan had fallen before Genesis 3 where the temptation of Adam and Eve is recorded.
I am not trying to assume what I think. I am reading what is in the bible I have. It says" in the beginning" not after God made the heavens and angels.
I can only go on what God put for mankind to understand. You may see it different then me .
Until my GOD calls me home then I will be in his presence, in his house . if he wants to give me the knowledge of which came first (earth )(Adam and Eve)( heaven and angels) or all made in his time not ours. All I can say when he first made the creation in 7 days according to my bible all was good. To me that 8 day and after would/could be when angels fell and life became complicated for us to know exactly what is. Some people believe Eve and devil had sex and Cain is their offspring( I don't) some people believe Jesus and Magdalene had children( I don't). So it is not for me to tell you what is the correct way of creating creation we all have to see the light when God makes it bright enough for the truth.may you find the truth. I will continue to search my bible and for the truth that is God's. May Jesus light the way for as it is written. Jesus words; " I am the truth and the light . who ever follow me will have eternal life".
@@larryroberts8809 Lucifer and the Angels watched God create the heaven and earth so if Lucifer rebelled in heaven how long was he actually in heaven? A 1/3 of the angels got cast out with him.
The angels were created before the earth (Job 38:4-7). Satan fell before he tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden (Genesis 3:1-14). Satan’s fall, therefore, must have occurred somewhere after the time the angels were created and before he tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Whether Satan’s fall occurred hours, days, or years before he tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden, Scripture does not specifically say.
Job 38:4-7 KJV
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
The Lord loves numbers he has a book called The book of numbers
God didn't write a book
Amazing exposition until 11:19 when it all goes to the toilet.
You must be slow 💀
yeah and you must have a coconut head
How is this useful?
Hmm... certainly interesting, though personally I don't see that it has a strong connection to creation. I'm a creationist minister myself, and studied advanced mathematics, not as highly as Dr. Lisle, but I studied through calculus, so at least enough to see a lot of formulas, graph plots, etc. Fractals certainly are fascinating, and beautiful when plotted, but I always analyze from the point of view of a skeptic, because they're going to ask questions, and we're supposed to have an answer. And I don't see how logically one can conclude that mathematical formulas only work because of God. Hypothetically, IF evolution were true (which I don't believe, but just for sake of argument) there would still be numbers, because numbers, to me, are merely a logical result of calculating matter. If I have 5 fingers, whether I count them 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or I, II, III, IV, V etc, the label changed, but the concept didn't. Similarly, the fractal charts merely discover interesting phenomena that occur, but the concepts that govern the numbers (addition, subtraction, multiplication, division) are natural concepts. I think other concepts like Gravity for instance, can logically be attributed to God, or other things that if Zeus or something was in charge, we could not count on a rational universe operating under a set of standard governing laws. But I don't see how numbers fall into that same category. Still very interesting, I'm just curious how someone would attempt to defend it against a skeptic that says numbers just do what numbers do, the fact that it is pretty on a graph is irrelevant.
"interesting, though personally I don't see that it has a strong connection to creation"
Some of the elements of the Mandelbrot set have a known similarity to plant growth patterns as well as other animal forms, similar to the Fibonacci sequence. Other fractals simulate lightning and other natural branching patterns. It seems there's a strong possibility of a connection here between number formulas and the shapes God used in his creation. Of course, I am open to this possibility because I already believe, but for someone on the other side it may be a matter of God not opening their eyes yet.
"I don't see how logically one can conclude that mathematical formulas only work because of God."
Maybe logic isn't the thing to use here. Math certainly came from God - either created during creation week or perhaps part of His nature - so it must be "very good." Also, I don't see too many animals thinking about math. The formulas work because God gave us the understanding.
"the concepts that govern the numbers (addition, subtraction, multiplication, division) are natural concepts."
Do you mean they exist of themselves?
"But I don't see how numbers fall into that same category. "
Numbers seem to be very important to God, as He chose specific ones for important values - 144,000 sealed, 12 tribes, 12 disciples, 70 weeks, forgive 70 X 7, etc. The fact that something as tremendous as gravity can be represented by such a simple force equation tells me that numbers carry a lot of weight.
"I'm just curious how someone would attempt to defend it against a skeptic that says numbers just do what numbers do, the fact that it is pretty on a graph is irrelevant."
Most skeptics/atheists that I have encountered hide behind a facade of logic or apparent lack of evidence when the real reason they don't believe is because they simply don't want to - a subtle arrogant rebellion. They are not willing to make the connection. I had a teacher in college that told me, "People say a rose's beauty tells them God created it, but it doesn't say that to me," and she was content to just sit there, stare into space and chain smoke with a deadened spirit.
You have a point that these mathematical graphs are a stretch to use as evidence, but they may work for some people. They are good to bolster the faith of those who already believe. They certainly spark my spiritual curiosity, and I look for God to open the eyes of those who don't see His handiwork yet.
James E Good points. First off, I'm actually a speaker on creation science, so I'm coming from that view, but as such I'm also looking at how would a skeptic see it. I've since this video seen some more in depth studies by Dr Jason Lisle comparing the similarities to what some might call mathematical anomalies to things we actually see in nature, like snowflakes, frost patterns, ferns, etc. and that certainly generated some interesting thoughts. So my points were merely, as an objective of logically defending the faith, I don't know that just this data alone is compelling, though adding the naturally occurring fractal patterns certainly does strengthen the argument. Of course, as a speaker, I understand that time is the biggest enemy. There's only so much than can be covered.
Could you direct me to the more in depth studies by Lisle?
You are probably right from a logic standpoint that this data alone is not enough. I'm thinking logic + something else, like an open heart or the work of the Holy Spirit. I have seen evangelists reach people by bypassing their logic completely through more of a perspective of common sense, and convicting them of their sin and need of help.
James E I'm on my way out the door or I'd get some links, but I think the video was called The Secret Code of Creation by Dr Jason Lisle, or something close. He also had great teachings on logic.
"Mathematics are the language with which God wrote the universe." -Galileo Galilei
Never try to convince a skeptic. You cannot convince a skeptic. It's an exercise in futility. I repeat to emphasize, you can NEVER convince a skeptic. Do not try. Each one of us MUST come to God of our own will.
You can lead a horse to water, but you CAN'T make the horse drink.
You can try to teach a dog that 1 + 1 = 2, you can try it in every method you can think of and think up. The dog will NEVER learn. First it must be a human being. THEN it might learn it.
Dogs don't know math. Skeptics don't know God.
Don't "answer" skeptics. They have no idea what they're asking. They're parrots. You don't talk with a parrot.
The stories in the Bible are not original they were copied from older stories and translated into Hebrew.
"The stories in the Bible are not original"
Could you be more specific.
Were you there to witness the plagiarism? No. The bible was passed down through oral tradition before people could actually write. You don't think Adam and Eve told thier kids about what happened in the Garden? Same with Noah. Ofcourse they did just like you have stories within your family even today.
Missionaries came to Africa and brought the bible. I don't think the bible is the word of God. We'll see if we die
@@Kreationcreatures Adam never existed
Imaginary Numbers?
They logically can not be real. The real square root of a negative number could be real however. Suppose you had seven missing brain cells. Is square root of seven 2.64575131106 ? Then perhaps that many of them mated and multiplied by eating other cells.
Computer software cannot exist without the use of negative numbers. Negative numbers do not need to exist in order for them to be applied to real life. Real numbers do not exist, either positive or negative. They are all just concepts used by beings like us with minds to quantify and organize the world around us. You can't calculate advanced sciences without using very complex mathematical formulas that go beyond what you may think could be "real." Imaginary numbers, for example, can help us understand ideas in quantum theory, the structure of plants and snowflakes, and so on. It's arguable whether this is proof of God or not, but such a notion shouldn't incite you to refute the mathematical concept itself.
Then what will be the square root of -1?
@@juliuscesarchavez6635 i (yes, the letter i) is the square root of -1. Imaginary numbers are used extensively in engineering calculations.
this video said nothing ...and had nothing to do with GOD
What a miserabele program
Is Dr. Lisle being willfully ignorant about philosophical naturalism, or is he being purposefully dishonest?
Oh, OK, so out of chaos we got math and the rest of the laws of nature? How did we get chaos, even? How did we get anything by naturalism?
Rather ironic that you call Dr. Lisle willfully ignorant when it's you that is.
@@2fast2block Yup. Dr. Lisle nails it on the head when he says that the (metaphysical) naturalist CANNOT account for the complexity and beauty of mathematics, indeed they cannot account for mathematics itself or any other concept, much less any feature of a concept.
According to a naturalist "it just happens that way".
Every thought ever, every point of view, every opinion, every idea just happen to emerge out of nature. Out of nothing, out of chaos. Complexity comes out of... complexity, oh but ultimately guess what, it comes out of nothing! At best it's a circular, meaningless argument.
@@nineblessednineadorednined9214 , very well-said. As you pointed out, "oh but ultimately guess what, it comes out of nothing!" It's because their god if the god of nothing.
I tell them: I HATE your god, the god of nothing. Your god claims to have created the universe, fine-tuning of the universe for life, life from non-life, information for life before and after it began, the laws of nature, etc, etc, when we know that your god of nothing can do nothing. Your god of nothing has nothing to offer and its followers only offer nothing of evidence for their god of nothing. That makes them nothing of importance but the followers of the god of nothing are so delusional that they think they do have something to offer to defend their god of nothing.
The atheist prayer to their god of nothing. "Oh, god of nothing, we deny you exist, and you don't, but we have no choice to declare you our true god if we're honest, but we're not. Please god of nothing, help us to continually grow in offering no science to support you because there is none, but nonetheless, we devote our lives to you and will do the best act we can, no matter how pathetic, no matter how embarrassing, no matter how much evidence is against us, we will use the various tactics, like our biggie, the god-of-the-gaps. It's our credit card whenever we're getting bitch-slapped silly with science."
The god-of-the-gaps credit card issued to all followers of the god of nothing religion. Does a supernatural God exist? No! The god of nothing created the universe that defied nothing doing nothing, and the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics. How did we get the laws of nature? They just came on their own through chaos by the god of nothing. It's all so simple and clear to us atheists by our famous god-of-the-gaps credit card. Can't come up with a logical answer based on science, no problem, we just use the god-of-the-gaps credit card. It has no limits on how often it's used and how it answers nothing. Just say, god-of-the-gaps, and you could be one of us atheist wannabe intellectuals, too. You can even have the gall to say we follow science. There are no monthly fees, no logic needed, no honesty, and again, NO science, just four simple words answers all these extremely complex questions with, god-of-the-gaps. So live mindlessly, give up any critical thinking skills and just relax because you're covered by the god-of-the-gaps credit card issued by the god of nothing to all dumbasses who refuse to think and be honest with the evidence.
(Note: Penalties WILL CERTAINLY apply. The god of nothing has nothing to help you with when you meet your real Maker, the God of the bible, because you chose to ignore the CLEAR evidence for Him.)
Members who have been with us for a while and show dedication to their god of nothing will also get to use these credit cards:-
The 'we don't know just yet but science is working on it' card. A great one to use acting as if you have science yet with no science on your side.
-The "big daddy in the sky/spaghetti monster/invincible man/imaginary friend/(and any sarcastic name)' card. Use it to try to act as if you're smart but have no explanation, yet need to fill in space. Great word fart filler.
-The 'religion vs science' card. Used to make it sound that it's you that has science even though it's you that has no science and going on blind faith.
-The 'no reputable scientists believes that' card. Used when your scientists follow the god of nothing and show such pathetic science that is laughable and so easily disproven.
-The 'bible expert' card. This is when you quote scripture and say how horrible the true God is even though you don't know what you're talking about. Be careful they don't ask how you got past the first verse of the bible to claim you know the bible because the god of nothing only has nothing as its answer with science about a natural creation. ALL the evidence is for a supernatural creation. Remember, huff-and-bluff is your friend.
-The 'creationist/creatard' card. Ranks up there in use with the god-of-the-gaps card. Use this even though you have nothing to explain how creation could happen naturally but want to sound as if you do.
-The 'people used to believe the flat earth/(whatever you can make up) but science figured it out' card. A good one to use to distract from the topic even though it's not true and it's you that has nothing to offer on the topic.
-The 'that's not part of evolution' card. Very important one even though we use biogenesis often to illustrate goo-to-you evolution, we made a rule it's not part of it no matter how much it really is!
-The 'atheism is not a belief' card. This gives you the free pass to make as many bold claims (beliefs) as you want and don't have to back them up. No matter how CLEAR it is you have beliefs, you simply deny it.
-The 'burden of proof is on you' card. Very similar to the 'atheism is not a belief' card. It also allows you to make bold claims and yet feel as if you don't have to back them up with proof.
-The 'who created God' card. Sure, it's a stupid question since the supernatural God created the natural realm, therefore, is not subject to natural laws the supernatural God created, but who cares, it may work.
-The 'you're brainwashed' card. Pay no attention that it's the people of the god of nothing religion that allowed themselves to be brainwashed; use it anyway because our religion cares nothing about fair and honest.
-The 'religion causes most wars' card. In 5 millennia worth of wars-1,763 total-only 123 (or about 7%) were religious in nature. If you remove the 66 wars waged in the name of Islam, it cuts the number down to a little more than 3%. Yet, due to our god of nothing's religion, has the secular body count at more than 100 million...in the 20th century alone. As always, never concern yourself with facts, just defend the god of nothing regardless.
-The 'I used to be a Christain' card. Even though there is rightfully much to bitch about in religions that were man-made, just look at it as an excuse to join the god of nothing religion and be brain-dead.
@@2fast2block It's a nice hefty read but I enjoyed it, thanks. :) And you're absolutely right. In fact, and I think you might be consciously aware of this, because you're certainly showing to be spiritually aware, "god of nothing" is a very good moniker for it, because the children of the god of nothing are precisely that, nothing. In a way they're not really alive, they don't really exist. This world is a world in which you have a chance to be born spiritually. This is why God is the God of Life (and in a way also the God of Death, the God of Natural Death, which should really be called Birth, that's why They're the God of the Living and the Dead, the God of those who are Alive, the God of those who are Born). This world is like an egg. Some people make it and they're born to true life. Some don't, sadly. They were never really alive. They never really existed.
Still, we shouldn't judge people, remember. Only God can judge them, He judges them by their heart.