An issue I have with D&D style magic is that it’s too reliable, it just feels like another form of science. What I love about CoC is that magic is mysterious, it’s difficult to cast and the outcome is often chaotic...plus dabbling in magic will ultimately lead to madness, great stuff!
For me, the gold standard of flavorful magic in RPGs will always be Mage: The Ascension. A game whose open-ended, improvisational mechanics are the base for a complex examination of Real Life magical (and pseudo-scientific) practice. MtAs is a game where _how_ a character casts spells is as important - if not more so - than _what_ spells are cast. It's a game where two different Mages might have the same Spheres of magic on their character sheets, yet use them in different ways and to different ends. It's a game of beautiful, insane ideas. As well as a game of philosophical knife fights.
@Alien Alien or for people who dont like going over a billion things or don't have the time to do so. ill never understand this elitist attitude that just because a rpg is simpler its automatically worse.
you may enjoy a game called "Through the Breach". its a card based system that uses a standard deck including the jokers, i like the magic system in it as it doesn't focus a lot on specific spells but rather massive customization of those spells i think each school has between 7 and 9 spells with there being 4 schools of magic. but there's 38 different ways to affect those spells up to combining them increasing their range their damage what they work on and its up to the Dm to decide ultimately if casting the interrogate magic with the inanimate object customization allows you to question the chair what it saw happen last night. anyways spells have numbers that need to be met and certain suits that have to ome up in the total to work so magic is really powerful and sometimes uber unreliable lol
1.) I started playing AD&D2e as a teenager, Love Ravenloft & Plane Scape Did the whole DMG of " Create your Own Character Class." Modifier all of the core starting playing class, even did a lose translation of White Wolf World of Darkness Vampire & Werewolf over into AD&D2e Had the Complete Humanoid Hand Book, favorite monster is Ogre Mage multi-class fighter/thief/wizard. It is as close to a vampire you can get with little nit'picking. 2.) Then 3.5e came out with Star Wars. I love it still play it. Both are d20 systems. Put force user skills and classes right into a D&D3e and them played a Conan/ He-man campaign close to two years. Could even put Dark Vader against the heroes of Dragon Lance and Forgotten Realms. 3.) 3e multi-classing skill stacking was great. DMG variant rules for learning skills and feat, was quick and top notch Call it 0-level character build up. One week to learn two feats or one rank in two skills, or two ranks in one skill. a.) Star Wars Soldier class five weapon group proficiency feats, one armor proficiency feat (6) +2 fort save ( Fortitude feat) 1d10 vit/hp ( toughness feat:+3hp) x3 Feat Total: 10 equals 5 weeks of basic training. Skill point 4x 1st-level (base : 16 pts) skill training : 2 weeks to 8 weeks Max Total Training Time : 13 weeks, or little over 3 months. i.) I am sorry forgot BAB+1 ( weapon focus feat.) b.) this system show with out XP a character(PC/NPC) will gain two to three class levels per year. i.) Luke Skywalker start at age 19 as a 2nd-level fringer and gain 7 levels of Jedi Guardian in three years. 21,000xp 4.) CR xp award: If your DM give out XP for foot stomping a rat, then you sould get XP for sling a rock at a rabbit. Large centipede and snakes in the garden with large spiders in the barn. A 7th-level npc and a wizard living on the same farm by the age of 27 will have the same XP gain. Both will have 10 ranks in the skill (profession:farmer.) the main difference between them is , the wizard can cast Plant Growth in get a 30% crop yield and turn a thicket into a hedge wall for fire wood. a.) Do the math, it is fun. It gives me my background as to why I always start the game as 3rd or 4th level multi-class characters. Also goblins live off of rats and large insects. Putting them at ranger2nd/ rogue3rd. Have a good weekend.
No matter how many times I look at that book, it still looks like a D&D 3e supplement. :) Also: Seth: "I would love to see all these extras mentioned in the video., Mike & Co.: "That's a brilliant idea! Write up a proposal outline and we'll send you a contract to start writing it." :D
Yes! This is exactly what I needed. Have a group of PCs looking to sacrafice sanity for sorcery and finding info on mythos magic is tough. Thanks Seth!
The Delta Green Handler guide has more modern mythos tomes and has a little bit of advice on making your own, and Targets of Opportunity has an extensive breakdown on a Nyarlathotep cult and a few others. The zine The Unspeakable Oath also has a lot of more modern "tomes" such as a kung-fu movie "The Deadly Claws of the Yellow Emperor" (an obvious Hastur-infected film) EDIT: TUO issue one actually has rules for making your own tomes.
If you're interested in a collection of Lovecraftian generator tables for Cults, Tomes, and Cult Conspiracies, I'd recommend getting the "Silent Legions" RPG. Even though it comes with it's own basic OSR system, the real highlight are all the thematic random gen tables in it. Great for rolling up and/or mixing Cthulhu themes for other RPGs like CoC. Can also be combined with "Stars Without Number (Revised Edition)" for a d20 space-cthulhu sandbox since it uses the same system, and is written by the same guy. I recommend getting them printed at DTRPG since you additionally get the PDF, along with the print-on-demand, for the same price as the PODs on Amazon.
I love Silent Legions's tables. I kinda prefer using it for call of cthulhu over the actual silent legions rpg. Cause CoC feels better when it's more unpredictable and not entirely done based apon the pre written stories. But that's just me.
I absolutely LOVE this book! As scary as it is to use magic in Call of Cthulhu, the system has always had some of the most atmospheric spells, and the fact that there is no real structure to the magic system (as seen in other games like D&D) makes it really easy to tailor or create magic that fits your own campaign needs. I was actually lucky enough to snag a signed copy of both Pulp Cthulhu and the Grand Grimoire from the Compleat Strategist in NYC back in 2017. Even though I missed the chance to meet Scott Dorward, Matt Sanderson, and Paul Fricker in person (thanks to heavy work schedules during the summer months), the Strategist had a couple of signed copies sitting inconspicuously in the Chaosium section, so I bought them right then and there, even though I hadn't gone in there planning to buy anything that day. Thanks for covering this awesome book, Seth!
The way I see it, there seems to be no structure to magic in CoC because it depicts a world where occult secrets must be pried out of the universe's hands by force. Tidbits of lore and scraps of theory pieced together from ancient tomes, bargained from unearthly creatures (who have a vested interest in teaching individual spells, not spell theory), and half-remembered from dreams and visions. There may, indeed, have been a time or place where great master magicians formulated arcane systems, through which they could craft spells from first principles to any effect they desired. But those were long ago and far away, and their like is not in the world today. The magic known to magicians now is spotty. Cobbled together from what is known and what is surmised, as well as from raw inspiration. It is probable that many spells that survive are crammed with extraneous elements, that modern magicians are too foolish or too hesitant to remove in the name of reducibility. Different methods could be used to reach the same conclusion...or to create a functionally similar conclusion, while being crucially different in ways that may not be known until it's too late. How many spells only work because they call upon some greater being to facilitate them? How many spells make calls to beings that no longer "live", yet the spell works anyway? In CoC, as in Real Life mysticism, Magic is as much Art as it is Science. All most magicians can be certain of...is that what works, works. For many magicians, that is good enough.
Bluecho4 You said it in a far more articulate way than I could have. It's essentially why CoC's magic system is likely my favorite even though I love how D&D and Rolemaster categorize their spells in what amounts to in-game spell theory. Renaissance Deluxe (Cakebread & Walton) and Mythras (The Design Mechanism) are my favorite compromises between the two styles. Besides: one of my favorite moments as a Keeper is watching my players struggle with whether losing Sanity (or worse, in some cases) is worth the casting of a particular spell in a specific instance or, in some cases, accepting that they feel they MUST cast a spell. ;)
CoC spell book in D&D3.5e is a Summoners' spell book "magic trapped" with Bestow Curse. Each page is a reusable Scroll. Honestly if you look in the DM page on Creating Magic Traps, the Magic Item Creation feat: Create Wondrous Items, makes the other MIC feats a bit, redundant . Spells like Illussionary Scrip or False Page, or a double layer hidden folding page will show you beautiful art work, but if you read out loud the sweet poetry then it summons a succubus or worst. Besides what wizard in their right mind would put their most powerful spells in the front of their spell book instead of at the back ? " Dear gentle reader, if you are looking at these pages in this book. Know this, here lies within, are some of the most 'beautiful' written words you can ever give your voice to. Please, do try singing them with a deeply passionate heart. Your voice will being so such sweet blessings to your weary soul." If the player's character just read the open passage above out loud, they must make a Will DC: 17 to 20 ( Dominate Person spell + ability modifier) or start trying to sing out from the book. And fiends from the Far Realms will start showing up. If the house or city was not haunt before, it is Now............
I highly recommend Silent Legions by Sinne Nomine Publishing. It's full of tables for rolling up cults, tomes, monsters, aliens, alternate dimensions, and so on. It has a game attached, a sort of B/X version of CoC, but the real joy of that product is the ability to create a full mythos of your own based on random tables. It does a lot of what you wish this product did!
Funny that you mention that. I picked that one up a couple months ago and we're run several sessions --it's super fun! Let me know if you have specific questions.
It would really be useful to be able to create Mythos tomes as a PC. There are even multiple reasons to. The writer might document the most important bits of lore, so the knowledge isn't lost if they ever lose the original texts. A PC suffering from insanity might create poetry or prose as part of their therapy, which in turn could be collected and read, for occult insight. Studying what one wrote in a fugue or heightened state of madness could prove...enlightening. When the product of pure madness is examined from a perspective of reason. A dream diary could be employed as part of a person's attempts to explore the Dreamlands. If nothing else, I know from personal experience that dreams become easier to remember - and control - when you're in the habit of writing them as soon as you wake. If a PC is ever stricken with amnesia, it can be helpful to have their own documents on hand to remind them. If a new PC joins the investigators, a comprehensive record of what they've experienced can be handy at getting them up to speed. (As a fringe bonus, they get a big dump of Sanity loss, and Cthulhu Mythos gained, all at once; it's like ripping off a band-aid). Creating a treatise on the Mythos may be the first step in developing some character's occult Great Work. Like a new spell or some original bit of insight. Purely for role-play purposes, there's the fact that a Mythos tome becomes a character's legacy. A form of immortality...possibly literally, if you start exploring the headier aspects of memetic magic. "I shall persist as pure information! And when someone, centuries hence, has read and understood my work, I shall be reborn in them! I will live forever!"
This is fantastic, and it provides a great piece of material for future campaigns. Perhaps like a modern game discovers the collected poetry of an investigator from an earlier 1920's era investigator. Would be a fun bit of continuity, and the players would probably think it was really cool, especially the player of that previous investigator.
I only post on your videos. You are honestly such an INSPIRATION. just when I think I'm ready to carry on my dnd campaign another video comes up, and I get all excited to dive into Cthulhu again. Kick-start some cthulhu mystery modules. I am IN
Seth's suggestions for future supplements at the end of this video are amazing. I want that book of artifacts so badly. I desperately hope someone from Chaosium has watched this video.
I have been waiting for this for a long time. I do have a question for you though. What is your opinion on Players gaining the Healing Folk Spell. I handed it out to my players after one became a apprentice to a old Chinese hermit, but I have a little doubt about its use. It seems a little to powerful for my, as one of my players put it, "Ultra-Murder-Death Games" and was wondering your opinion. While I am here, thank you for all the reviews you have done. They got me into Cyberpunk, Delta Green and Call of Cthulhu. You really got me back into RPG's.
Maybe make it where it occasionally heals the wound in a horrible way. For instance, healing a head wound could cause something bad from baldness to blindness. I don't know the spell, but maybe a luck roll decides if the spell heals or hurts the target.
There's nothing that says that the ones who made the spell had humans in mind right, maybe the more "healing" that is needed, the more they start to resemble something else entirely, something with different senses maybe. Cancer and deformities could always be a side effect if it causes cell growth.
How do you not have at least 100x more subscribers? You're the reason I'm looking into other game systems besides dungeons and dragons. Where before I had been too nervous, as I'm the GM in my friend group (and I'm very new to it), your videos have made it far less intimidating. Before, I had only been hitting the like button. I'll start commenting more. Hopefully it'll help to convince the algorithm to show your work off to more people.
Your mention of a desire for a catalogue of artifacts... put the imagery in my head of the Bonesaw (and Peanuthead) being a nutjob doctor from an asylum. Already gone somewhat cuckoo, but well-intentioned. And then the giant snake thing shows up because the new boss moved that rock!
Good review, I agree with the idea for a Tome focussed suplement, the old Keepers Companion books had a few suggestions on how to customise tomes, but little advice on how to create their own. There are also a lot of early 'one off' tomes (For example, 'The Dark Angel's Kiss') that need additional background. And you are absolutely right, again the Keepers Companions had a huge concordance of scenarios sorted by tomes and creatures which helped alert players to their existence.
I am really surprised of the demand in a book about mythos tomes because I own one of the last German edition of Call of Cthulhu (it was released 2004, a second edition in 2008 and called "Necronomicon: Geheimnisse des Mythos"). It is one of my favorite source books because of the detailed description of tomes, their origins, some facts about the authors, where you can find them, and how they influence readers (and their sanity). These descriptions are spiced up with some great stories about persons who try to handle the horror of these tomes.
I only recently found your great Chanel and being a German Keeper I totally admire you for your work. You should definitely check out German Cthulhu Supplement Necronomicon which has elaborate Background Infos on Mythos Tomes and is a great reference (There are several others on different topics like sanity and Mythos creatures as well)
Hello, Seth! You have awesome videos about CoC! Thank you! Can you make some videos about Masks of Nyarlathotep Maybe just your ideas and opinion and not the full review
Seth, if you want deeper details on Mythos tomes, check out Chaosium's Keeper's Compendium or Keeper's Companion Vol. 1. They both contain expanded entries for tons of the books, including suggestions for spells to be found within. (The Companion is - I believe - a later version of the Compendium's contents, with revised entries.) I have the Compendium - it's one of my go-to resources. It should give you something to work with while you're waiting for the 7E version. :D EDIT: I'd totally forgotten about it, but these books have a large section covering cults in CoC. They also contain details in the tomes section for the "The Thurston Papers" - the compiled documents belonging to the Call of Cthulhu protagonist.
I'd love a video about how you use supplements like this, the weapons guide and other similar things. Often when I get these awesome books I feel a bit overwhelmed by all the information and data in them that I end up feeling like I'm wasting them because I barely get to use all of the spells or details in them. Like I have the Terror Australis book but who knows when I'm going to get to use all the little facts. Knowing how you use them and if you think there is a good way to tackle these sorts of book, sorta like a how-to run modules but for supplements would be much appreciated.
This book is a must for me. As odd as it sounds, I'm planning on running a crossover between Mage: the Ascension and Call of Cthulhu. I know they don't fit tonally, but it sounds like it would be fun. I'm interested what my mages will think about Lovecraftian magic.
I've been rewatching these Cthulhu videos cause they are so good. Gave me ideas for running a game set in B-Movie 50s time like Atomic Cthulhu or I was a Teenage Cthulhu. And even an anthology game series of one shot stories like Tales from the Crypt(Keeper). Like if I could still do it, I would introduce it with the voice of the Cryptkeeper.
All the things you want were printed in various Keepers Companions over the years. Having said that, I would love to see them updated and published again, annotated.
there are two volumes by stygian fox that cover it really well. A book of artifacts and the latest companion book that has amazing stuff like an underground american comic as a tome
A good resource for Mythos tomes and spells/rituals is the Delta Green Handler's Guide. There's a section of really helpful guidelines for creating your own monsters, tomes, and spells. Your call for a Chaosium resource full of past mythos material makes me wish they would do an SRD like Paizo did with Pathfinder and WotC is now doing with DnD. I think they're afraid of losing out on money but it's a great way to push more units IMO.
Congratulations on your EnNie nomination. Well deserved. Also, the 'Grand Grimoire' may be one of the best supplements ever for CoC. I do wish they'd taken the time though to balance the spells a little better. There are I think too many spells where the SAN costs are either so low that the Keeper's only recourse is to keep the spell out of PC's hands, or so high that there is never really even a temptation for a player to try to acquire and cast the spell if they have even the faintest idea what it does (and this being CoC, not having the faintest idea what it does is the same as having no reason to cast it).
You know Seth, I've been thinking about your point of converting an investigator's notes into a "tome" itself and have a few rules in my head already. Lemme know what you think: To figure out how much future folks can learn in mythos skill, do the following: - Start with the player's mythos skill - Ask the player how complete their "tome" will be in terms of relaying the knowledge of the mythos they have. Apply this to the skill, reducing is needed (so if they only include say 75% of what they've learned, it will be 75% of their mythos skill) and of course if they are still active players, they will need time to collect it all. - Determine how high quality of a recording it would be. Here's a rough idea of what I came up with. Scribblings and clipping: 15% Poorly written journal: 30% Decent book: 50% Detailed book: 60% Catalogued, indexed and referenced book: 70% Drawings included: +5% Pictures included: +15% Video included: +30% - Then have the character make an Arts & Craft: Writing roll. Give them a bonus die if they are a journalist or historian, or some other profession that is prided on recording things accurately. Fail: -20% Pushed fail: -30% If Insane: no loss of mythos skill, but reading the tome causes additional loss of sanity as the book is a little too accurate. Regular success: -10% Hard Success: -5% Extreme Success: No loss -Take final % and apply to the percentage gotten before.
Yeah, I had a rather similar idea about copying information from a tome. Effectively, any player that wanted to record information about a tome would have one of 2 options. Either they double the time they take reading the tome or they record only half of the entries rounded down (both half of the mythos gained and half of the amount of spells that it could have contained). Anyone recording the tome with the express purpose of it being read by others will be prompted to roll a linguistics roll to measure how well one can articulate and describe this content in their own words. Giving bonus die to people with matching occupations in a cool idea. Failing this roll will mean the time it takes to read the copied information is extended by 50% of the time it took to read the source material and a particularly sloppy journal will require successful linguistics rolls to even study. Regardless of this, whatever you have written takes as long to read as the original tome does. A hard or extreme success would indicate the writer being able to express the information about the tome in a more concise and understandable way, cutting the time it takes to read by half or two thirds respectively. Anybody that wanted to record spells would be required to roll the linguistics check. A failure will mean the spell is a poor forgery with some kind of defect. This could be more simple stuff like an increase in sanity or magic point cost or the effects of the spell becoming lesser, depending on what is applicable. Another idea could be that failing that linguistics check could prompt a roll similar to insane insight, where the mistaken understanding of the spell or simple errors in the duplicate will augment the effects of the spell in a more dramatic way, whether it's for the better or worse depending on how well the roll goes.
I know it is late but there is a spanish system called "cultos innombrables". With it, you play as a cultist, good or bad intended, in a contemporary setting. Maybe you could extract some things of it like the use electronic devices and dinamics of cults.
Great review as always - but what did you think of the NPCs in the book? I thought the art, description and stats for the three sorcerers was pretty cool and the best bit of the otherwise useful but not so exciting tome. Also loved your suggestion a supplement for cults.
The sorcerers were kinda neat, but not really useful for me. I figure they'll be great for some Keeper somewhere, but nothing I paid much attention to.
I bought this book within the past year because I am on a quest to come up with a new spell system for a D&D type game. The problem, as I see it, is that the way spells knowledge is given to D&D players steals a sense of wonder, awe, mystery, and even fear from the experience of playing the game. Moreover, it lends itself to "power gaming" in which players make comments like, "I can't wait until I get to fifth level so I can cast Fireball!" as if it were some automatic thing. I am doing research to create a system in which: (1) Players don't know what magical spells are available until the DM reveals them. In other words, the Players Handbook doesn't give them. (2) Players don't automatically gain spells as they level up, even if they gain more capacity to cats them. There must be a set of spell learning mechanics; for example the artifact flow charts in Gamma World or an amount of time/money that study costs. (3) Spell casting has costs and consequences, such as spell components (that they have to find or buy), social or legal consequences if others witness the character casting a spell, the chance of insanity, and so on. (4) The spells would have stats, as normal, but would also have all the "formulas" (verbal & material components, etc.) and the method of casting the spell, depending upon how the spellcaster draws power. This would place some burden on the spellcasting character, but also force the player to role play. That way, spells are not simple rules, but a part of the world that the spellcaster must negotiate. I believe that RPG design should start with a body of fantasy (or other) literature that the group likes, followed by the world design scheme and supporting mechanics needed to make that literature come to life. My personal favorite type of fantasy lit is the 20th century Weird Tales (Lovecraft, Lieber, Howard, Smith, etc.). They give you the the strange flavor I like -- the sense that the world is a weird place. So what influenced me on seeking the kind of mechanics above? The following: (1) Gary Gygax on players who read the DM Guide (p. 8, first ed. DM Guide) -- "They are simply lessening their own enjoyment of the game by taking away the sense of wonder that otherwise arises from a game which has rules hidden from participants." I think Gygax made a mistake by putting spells in the Players Handbook. (2) H. P. Lovecraft's quote: "The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is the unknown." Once you make spells known through rules, you take away all the fear of the unknown. What if it was just not that easy? What if something could go wrong? What if the player just did not know what would happen until they tried? (Players today seem to be more into control than fear.) (3) I cannot remember the source exactly, but it comes from a book on fantasy lit that says something to the effect -- magic is the source of mystery in fantasy. Bruce Galloway makes a similar quote in his book "Fantasy Wargaming" on p. 17 -- "At the heart of fantasy wargaming lies the supernatural." Well, guess what? Spells fall under that category of "magic." You should not dispel the magic by codifying it and then just giving it away in a rule book. Let players discover it. Lovecraft's "The Case of Charles Dexter Ward" is a great example of someone trying to discover (or uncover) lost magic. Anyway, I like some of the mechanics for magic in the Call of Cthulhu RPG and Modiphius Conan systems. I don't play those games, but I think that they are a good place to start. I am also looking into Zweihander as a source of ideas for how to make magic more "grim and perilous." :D
Never played Rifts. I always liked the lore of Vampire and enjoyed the video games, but never got that much onto the TTRPG. Though back in the late 90's there was this huge Vampire LARP that would happen at a Dallas goth club. I'd always get a kick out of watching them play while surrounded by all the regular club-goers.
2:06 fun thing about that: Lovecraft HATED Astrology and was going to be commissioned by Harry Houidini to work together and write an anti-Astrology article.
Also I'm stealing the mythos tomes as VHS boxed set. I'm going to mix it with the film The Endless and have the investigators reteuning to their old UFO death cult. Damn. Maybe I should write a module
Hay Seth I know this might be a little late but, I thought I'd let you know that you can look on theTrove (no joke that's it's name) and get the PDF's for CoC (and a lot of other games to)for free and just use that & The Grimoire to make your own list and put it out there for everyone.
Hello Seth, I'm a Junior Keeper(Been running for 3 or 4 years, but with games very spaced between them) and I'm thinking about buying "Ripples from Carcosa", what do you think about it?
I really want to run it. I'd planned to run a short Invictus campaign, and then roll it into Chapter one of Ripples, but my players were's that keen on doing Invictus, so I'll probably eventually do it as a 3-part 1-shot.
What Post-it do you use? They do not mark permanently the book? I hate when the page is damaged by doing this to the book. Chaosium books are so good to be damaged.
None of my current investigator team have dipped into casting yet. Not that I'm going to stop them, but as novices in novice adventures, the "hit it until it stops moving" strategy has been reliable so far. With the exception of "ask a half-ghoul to do the dirty work" and "hit it with a car until it stops moving.
Seth Skorkowsky The car in question was the yellow Buick belonging to Bill the recent divorcee (NPC/replacement investigator), in the Gla'aki adventure from the novice keeper book. The target, one once-human avatar of Gla'aki. The driver, Bill himself, having understood the PCs plan to get to the cars and having gotten his ready first. The obliteration? Absolute. Bill slumped half dead out of his nearly disintegrated car moments before the avatar (soaked in gasoline by another PC) went up in a fireball. So, he went to the hospital along with the guy who got one-hit to 0 hp by the avatar's punch. The guy who thought stabbing it was smart.
I've read Lovecrafdt and done a couple of dungeon crawl style adventure stories based on Cthuku myseldfi in which the protagonists fight back , You can use a couple of antoginists I've made up myself- Scaleback ( a crocodillian entity whose lowerr half is entirely made up of tentacles and he carries an eternally bleeding kria knife and his favoured method is to rip peoples brains out (he's also insane- Cheebra: an eight legeded entity who hides or lurks in shadows and likes to hunt his 'hits; down or drive them mad with paranoia (but he HATES light). Seth, you have my permission to use them but here're the good guys;-- J'dara-a french pheonix godess. Geldra- a giant diamondback godess Scaleback ( a crocodillian entity whose lowerr half is entirely made up of tentacles and he carries an eternally bleeding kria knife and his fdt
Anyone knows more subtle scenarios to run? Ones where the supernatural is more implied than in your face? my main problem with most of the CoC scenarios is that they start cool but ends with the party fighting ghouls and zombies and all that, and it really cheapens the whole story and reduces the cosmic horror aspect of it all.
Hey Seth, Thanks for the (again) great review. You mentioned the lack of rules when it comes to the creation of mythos-tomes. I recently developed some house rules for that, which I'd like to share and to discuss: Before I get into the rules I have to say that I needed to use some math to either not over- nor underpower the new mythos sources. The rules are founded on a mixture of both mythos-ratings of the 6th and 7th edition and their conversion-rules. All in all there are 8 ranks / levels sources can have. I got some inspiration using this entry on "The Unspeakable Oath" (theunspeakableoath.com/home/2010/10/tuo-1-creating-and-using-mythos-tomes/). In the following I'll be referring to that table. To the actual rules: Investigators, who want to create a mythos source, first calculate its max. possible Mythos-points (see table: "Mythos-Points"). Therefore the investigator needs his own Cthulhu-Mythos value and another skill of his / her choice, representing the kind of mythos source (Writing = book, art = painting, stonemason art = sculpture, computer use = Bluray etc.). Now the max. possible Mythos-points of the source is calculated: Mythos-points (see table) = (Skill (e.g. Art / Craft) / 25) + (Cthulhu-Mythos / 5) On that way the Art / Craft-skill of the investigator supports the creation, but isn't that big factor of raising the Mythos-points, since the knowledge making the source special isn't commonplace. Using that formula you'll get a range of mythos-points between 1 - 24 (referring to the keepers guide, the Al Azif has a value of 18). Since you can only get a value over 18 if the Cthulhu-Mythos' value is very high, the investigator is most likely very close to madness - in such situations it is - to my mind - very (very very very very very !) rarely possible to create an even mightier source of the mythos than the Al Azif (if the keeper wishes). To be able to create such a source the investigator at least needs to have 5 % Cthulhu-Mythos (my idea: The first bout of madness [+5 % Cthulhu-Mythos] inspires the investigator to process his / her experience in his / her source) AND needs to make a successful combined roll (chosen skill and Cthulhu-Mythos). If only the "chosen skill"-roll is successful, the investigator gets a good mundane work of art, if both rolls are successful, the investigator creates a mythos-source, which can be skimmed and studied (see "normal" rules). It has the rating of Mythos-points, which were calculated earlier. The other points can be calculated as followed: CMI = Mythos-Points / 3 (round down) CMF = Mythos-Points - CMI MR = (CMI + CMF) x 3 Another rule sounds also very interesting (and motivating): If only the chosen-skill roll is successful the player could check if the rolled value would have been a success if astronomy / occultism (etc.) was rolled. If so the source could at least be a bit occult and might develop into a mythos-source later. Now we get to the next point: developing the own mythos-source. It works as stated above. If the roll was successful the value raises to the mythos-points value, which was calculated before, otherwise nothing happens. If the investigator fumbles, the source would loose some mythos-points. Now you can use the following "table", which I made, inspired by TUO: Source-rank 1 --> Mythos-Points 1 - 2 --> no. of spells 0 --> SAN 1d2 - 1d3 Source-rank 2 --> Mythos-Points 3 - 4 --> no. of spells 0 - 1 --> SAN 1d4 - 1d6 Source-rank 3 --> Mythos-Points 5 - 6 - 7 --> no. of spells 1 - 1 - 2 --> SAN 1d4 - 1d6 - 1d8 Source-rank 4 --> Mythos-Points 8 - 9 - 10 --> no. of spells 1 - 2 - 3 --> SAN 1d6 - 1d8 - 1d10 Source-rank 5 --> Mythos-Points 11 - 12 --> no. of spells 2 - 3 --> SAN 2d4 - 1d10 Source-rank 6 --> Mythos-Points 13 - 14 --> no. of spells 2 - 3 --> SAN 2d6 - 2d8 Source-rank 7 --> Mythos-Points 15 --> no. of spells 4 --> SAN 2d10 Source-rank 8 --> Mythos-Points 16 - 17 - 18 --> no. of spells 5 --> SAN 10+special Source-rank 9 --> Mythos-Points >18 --> no. of spells 6 --> ???? All of that might sound a bit confusing, therefore an example is following: Harvey Walters experienced a bout of madness seeing a Byakhee for the very first time and got + 5% Cthulhu-Mythos. He's a writer and has a total value of 70 % in art (literature). His total value of mythos-points, which a source created by him could have, are 3. If Harvey would succeed in a combined roll (maybe he gets some bonus-dice - keeper's decision), the player can add 0 number of spells to the source. Reading that source would cost 1d4 sanity. The source would have the following stats (7th.): CMI (1), CMF (2), MR (9). It is up to the keeper, if he / she rewards Harvey for coping with his experience (e.g. + 1d4 san) or punishes him for taking the first steps behind the veil of the mythos (-1d4 san). If Harvey wouldn't make the Cthulhu-Mythos roll, but would have been successfull comparing the result to his value of occultism, he'll create a strange book about winged creatures of the night - some report telling about his confrontation with a "real vampire". Time has passed and much happend to Harvey... He's very close to indefinite insanity and already experienced a paradigm shift long time ago (more Cthulhu-Mythos than SAN). He has 51 % of Cthulhu-Mythos and is head-warlock of a bigger circle, who worships Nyarlathotep. Harvey wants to create a "holy scripture" for his cult, which is meant to be the central scripture of that group - even after Harvey's death. Since he developed his writing-skills further (80%) his source's max. possible mythos-points are 13. Looking that value up, the player can add 2 spells - e.g.: Contact Nyarlathotep & Summon / Banish the Black Man. Reading that source would cost 2d6 san. The other stats would be CMI (4), CMF (9), MR (39) IF Harvey's combined roll is successful. It is and he develops the scripture on the basis of his former unholy text, which starts with Harvey's resurrection experience (Confrontation with the Byakhee). In another reality Harvey isn't that lucky and didn't make the combined roll - he even fumbles. The source's mythos-points are decreased by 1 or 2 (He erased, adds lines of text... he just just rewrites it for the worse... Checking the table: if the number of spells decreases, Harvey just erased those pages, containing that number of spells. Blessing in disguise: The SAN-damage also decreases.) Now we hope for the best, since Harvey helped us in the keeper's guide learning the rules. He is totally fused by the power of Nyarlathotep and got an extreme success. Now the source's max. possible mythos-points raises up to 14 (from 13) - with all the other influences regarding the table. Wow - that was quite a lot to write down. I hope you can follow my sometimes confusing rules. I'm looking forward to read some ideas about it. :-)
I have. Though with CoC, I tend to prefer the pre-made scenarios that provide me with all the handouts and what-not, and then just tweak them for our group.
Great video there and I totally agree. (As I actually do a lot of times) But concerning your false expectation. There Actually is a book giving you exactly the information you mention about mythos tombs. It's from 2008 and called Necronomicon (how inventive) and it is all about the more popular books of the mythos. On 260 and some beautyfull pages it gives you general ideas about occult and mythos tomes, expands on the lists from the rulebook and the old Keeper Compandions and even details many of the different editions of some of the books. You get a list of suggested spells as well as descriptions of the books and what topics they might contain. And on top it gives you suggestions how to drive home the alien nature of those books. - Spoiler - Like how the “Cultes des Goules” has a sickening stench wich makes it near impossible to read without blocking your nose with parfumed balls of cotton or the like and how this slowly grows less but you start to take one a disgusting smell as you progress studying. And than your food and groceries start to go spoiled and rotten in basically no time. But you don’t mind because it tastes better that way anyway.
- end Spoiler - Unfortunatly the book has two gripes. First it is a german publication from Pegasus Press (which wouldn’t be a problem for me being from Germany) but it has been out of print for years now and because of some copyright Problems Pegasus was not able to publish a PDF version. And so the prices that are asked on ebay (if you can find it at all) are astronomical. I got my hands on a copy just a couple days ago and it was comparatively cheap, but I have seen prices as high as 250€ (that’s close to 300$). So I guess my intent (aside form picking a little bit in open wounds and what keeper doesn't like to do that a little mti) was to say is that there actually used to be such a publication and I hope that Pegasus in germany and chaosium in the US (who according to the authors were in close contact during the development) will bring out a new edition for 7th Edition sometime soon.
Oh wow. I've not heard of this one. I hope they do bring something like this back for 7e (though I hope they change the name). In the meantime, hold on tight to the one you got. It's practically a Mythos Tome itself.
@@SSkorkowsky Actually I just read a post by the editor in chief of the german call of cthulu game that a new version of the book is planned for next year. But the name will be changed to "De Vermis Mysteriis" wich is a lot better in my opinion. I think I will prod a little bit if a backward translation to english is planed. I would love to see that. Basicaly I could care less but the stuff Pegasus has been putting out for the last like 20+ years has been great and I do not understand why there is not more excange towards the english. You guys are really missing out on some great modules and books. Which is a shame.
"Flesh like Rope" is my favourite spell in the whole book. Nothing beats tying a mook to lamp post with his own wrist
You are, by a WIDE margin, my favorite RPG commentator. Thanks so much for what you do.
Agreed
Agreed.
Yes
An issue I have with D&D style magic is that it’s too reliable, it just feels like another form of science. What I love about CoC is that magic is mysterious, it’s difficult to cast and the outcome is often chaotic...plus dabbling in magic will ultimately lead to madness, great stuff!
Alien Alien brilliant 😂💜
For me, the gold standard of flavorful magic in RPGs will always be Mage: The Ascension. A game whose open-ended, improvisational mechanics are the base for a complex examination of Real Life magical (and pseudo-scientific) practice. MtAs is a game where _how_ a character casts spells is as important - if not more so - than _what_ spells are cast. It's a game where two different Mages might have the same Spheres of magic on their character sheets, yet use them in different ways and to different ends.
It's a game of beautiful, insane ideas. As well as a game of philosophical knife fights.
@Alien Alien or for people who dont like going over a billion things or don't have the time to do so. ill never understand this elitist attitude that just because a rpg is simpler its automatically worse.
you may enjoy a game called "Through the Breach". its a card based system that uses a standard deck including the jokers, i like the magic system in it as it doesn't focus a lot on specific spells but rather massive customization of those spells i think each school has between 7 and 9 spells with there being 4 schools of magic. but there's 38 different ways to affect those spells up to combining them increasing their range their damage what they work on and its up to the Dm to decide ultimately if casting the interrogate magic with the inanimate object customization allows you to question the chair what it saw happen last night. anyways spells have numbers that need to be met and certain suits that have to ome up in the total to work so magic is really powerful and sometimes uber unreliable lol
1.) I started playing AD&D2e as a teenager,
Love Ravenloft & Plane Scape
Did the whole DMG of " Create your Own Character Class." Modifier all of the core starting playing class, even did a lose translation of
White Wolf World of Darkness Vampire & Werewolf over into AD&D2e
Had the Complete Humanoid Hand Book, favorite monster is
Ogre Mage multi-class fighter/thief/wizard. It is as close to a vampire you can get with little nit'picking.
2.) Then 3.5e came out with Star Wars. I love it still play it. Both are d20 systems. Put force user skills and classes right into a D&D3e and them played a Conan/ He-man campaign close to two years.
Could even put Dark Vader against the heroes of Dragon Lance and Forgotten Realms.
3.) 3e multi-classing skill stacking was great.
DMG variant rules for learning skills and feat, was quick and top notch
Call it 0-level character build up.
One week to learn two feats or one rank in two skills, or two ranks in one skill.
a.) Star Wars Soldier class
five weapon group proficiency feats, one armor proficiency feat (6)
+2 fort save ( Fortitude feat)
1d10 vit/hp ( toughness feat:+3hp) x3
Feat Total: 10 equals 5 weeks of basic training.
Skill point 4x 1st-level (base : 16 pts)
skill training : 2 weeks to 8 weeks
Max Total Training Time : 13 weeks, or little over 3 months.
i.) I am sorry forgot BAB+1 ( weapon focus feat.)
b.) this system show with out XP a character(PC/NPC) will gain two to three class levels per year.
i.) Luke Skywalker start at age 19 as a 2nd-level fringer and gain 7 levels of Jedi Guardian in three years. 21,000xp
4.) CR xp award:
If your DM give out XP for foot stomping a rat, then you sould get XP for sling a rock at a rabbit. Large centipede and snakes in the garden with large spiders in the barn. A 7th-level npc and a wizard living on the same farm by the age of 27 will have the same XP gain.
Both will have 10 ranks in the skill (profession:farmer.) the main difference between them is , the wizard can cast Plant Growth in get a 30% crop yield and turn a thicket into a hedge wall for fire wood.
a.) Do the math, it is fun. It gives me my background as to why I always start the game as 3rd or 4th level multi-class characters.
Also goblins live off of rats and large insects. Putting them at
ranger2nd/ rogue3rd.
Have a good weekend.
No matter how many times I look at that book, it still looks like a D&D 3e supplement. :)
Also:
Seth: "I would love to see all these extras mentioned in the video.,
Mike & Co.: "That's a brilliant idea! Write up a proposal outline and we'll send you a contract to start writing it."
:D
It is VERY 3rd edition D&D ish in its design, lol
"Spikey Turtle Thing" I think we need to lobby the UN for that to become the official international symbol for combat magic.
Yes! This is exactly what I needed. Have a group of PCs looking to sacrafice sanity for sorcery and finding info on mythos magic is tough. Thanks Seth!
The Delta Green Handler guide has more modern mythos tomes and has a little bit of advice on making your own, and Targets of Opportunity has an extensive breakdown on a Nyarlathotep cult and a few others. The zine The Unspeakable Oath also has a lot of more modern "tomes" such as a kung-fu movie "The Deadly Claws of the Yellow Emperor" (an obvious Hastur-infected film) EDIT: TUO issue one actually has rules for making your own tomes.
Current objective: Create seventy year old pulp Cthulhu character who’s a Mystic, can cast spells, and also has a six shooter
I picked this book up after watching your video. Greatly appreciated it!
If you're interested in a collection of Lovecraftian generator tables for Cults, Tomes, and Cult Conspiracies, I'd recommend getting the "Silent Legions" RPG.
Even though it comes with it's own basic OSR system, the real highlight are all the thematic random gen tables in it. Great for rolling up and/or mixing Cthulhu themes for other RPGs like CoC.
Can also be combined with "Stars Without Number (Revised Edition)" for a d20 space-cthulhu sandbox since it uses the same system, and is written by the same guy. I recommend getting them printed at DTRPG since you additionally get the PDF, along with the print-on-demand, for the same price as the PODs on Amazon.
Thanks brother
I love Silent Legions's tables. I kinda prefer using it for call of cthulhu over the actual silent legions rpg.
Cause CoC feels better when it's more unpredictable and not entirely done based apon the pre written stories.
But that's just me.
9:28
There is a Miskatonic Monograph called the 'Big Book of Cults'
I absolutely LOVE this book! As scary as it is to use magic in Call of Cthulhu, the system has always had some of the most atmospheric spells, and the fact that there is no real structure to the magic system (as seen in other games like D&D) makes it really easy to tailor or create magic that fits your own campaign needs.
I was actually lucky enough to snag a signed copy of both Pulp Cthulhu and the Grand Grimoire from the Compleat Strategist in NYC back in 2017. Even though I missed the chance to meet Scott Dorward, Matt Sanderson, and Paul Fricker in person (thanks to heavy work schedules during the summer months), the Strategist had a couple of signed copies sitting inconspicuously in the Chaosium section, so I bought them right then and there, even though I hadn't gone in there planning to buy anything that day.
Thanks for covering this awesome book, Seth!
The way I see it, there seems to be no structure to magic in CoC because it depicts a world where occult secrets must be pried out of the universe's hands by force. Tidbits of lore and scraps of theory pieced together from ancient tomes, bargained from unearthly creatures (who have a vested interest in teaching individual spells, not spell theory), and half-remembered from dreams and visions.
There may, indeed, have been a time or place where great master magicians formulated arcane systems, through which they could craft spells from first principles to any effect they desired. But those were long ago and far away, and their like is not in the world today.
The magic known to magicians now is spotty. Cobbled together from what is known and what is surmised, as well as from raw inspiration. It is probable that many spells that survive are crammed with extraneous elements, that modern magicians are too foolish or too hesitant to remove in the name of reducibility. Different methods could be used to reach the same conclusion...or to create a functionally similar conclusion, while being crucially different in ways that may not be known until it's too late. How many spells only work because they call upon some greater being to facilitate them? How many spells make calls to beings that no longer "live", yet the spell works anyway?
In CoC, as in Real Life mysticism, Magic is as much Art as it is Science. All most magicians can be certain of...is that what works, works. For many magicians, that is good enough.
Bluecho4
You said it in a far more articulate way than I could have. It's essentially why CoC's magic system is likely my favorite even though I love how D&D and Rolemaster categorize their spells in what amounts to in-game spell theory. Renaissance Deluxe (Cakebread & Walton) and Mythras (The Design Mechanism) are my favorite compromises between the two styles.
Besides: one of my favorite moments as a Keeper is watching my players struggle with whether losing Sanity (or worse, in some cases) is worth the casting of a particular spell in a specific instance or, in some cases, accepting that they feel they MUST cast a spell. ;)
CoC spell book in D&D3.5e is a Summoners' spell book "magic trapped" with Bestow Curse. Each page is a reusable Scroll.
Honestly if you look in the DM page on Creating Magic Traps,
the Magic Item Creation feat: Create Wondrous Items, makes the other MIC feats a bit, redundant .
Spells like Illussionary Scrip or False Page, or a double layer hidden folding page will show you beautiful art work, but if you read out loud the sweet poetry then it summons a succubus or worst.
Besides what wizard in their right mind would put their most powerful spells in the front of their spell book instead of at the back ?
" Dear gentle reader, if you are looking at these pages in this book. Know this,
here lies within, are some of the most 'beautiful' written words you can ever give your voice to. Please, do try singing them with a deeply passionate heart.
Your voice will being so such sweet blessings to your weary soul."
If the player's character just read the open passage above out loud, they must make a Will DC: 17 to 20 ( Dominate Person spell + ability modifier)
or start trying to sing out from the book. And fiends from the Far Realms will start showing up.
If the house or city was not haunt before, it is Now............
Definitely agree with Jack about more modern scenarios
I've been waiting for this review for like, no joke, a year.
Great review. Thanks again Seth. And yeah - a book of mythos tomes would be fantastic.
I highly recommend Silent Legions by Sinne Nomine Publishing. It's full of tables for rolling up cults, tomes, monsters, aliens, alternate dimensions, and so on. It has a game attached, a sort of B/X version of CoC, but the real joy of that product is the ability to create a full mythos of your own based on random tables. It does a lot of what you wish this product did!
Preparing to grab "Down Darker Trails" for some western themed Call Of Cthulhu reading. Any plans on visiting that splat in the future?
Funny that you mention that. I picked that one up a couple months ago and we're run several sessions --it's super fun! Let me know if you have specific questions.
Dude... make magic-gun.
Fantastic review, as per usual. I also firmly agree with your suggestions for more products.
It would really be useful to be able to create Mythos tomes as a PC. There are even multiple reasons to.
The writer might document the most important bits of lore, so the knowledge isn't lost if they ever lose the original texts.
A PC suffering from insanity might create poetry or prose as part of their therapy, which in turn could be collected and read, for occult insight. Studying what one wrote in a fugue or heightened state of madness could prove...enlightening. When the product of pure madness is examined from a perspective of reason.
A dream diary could be employed as part of a person's attempts to explore the Dreamlands. If nothing else, I know from personal experience that dreams become easier to remember - and control - when you're in the habit of writing them as soon as you wake.
If a PC is ever stricken with amnesia, it can be helpful to have their own documents on hand to remind them.
If a new PC joins the investigators, a comprehensive record of what they've experienced can be handy at getting them up to speed. (As a fringe bonus, they get a big dump of Sanity loss, and Cthulhu Mythos gained, all at once; it's like ripping off a band-aid).
Creating a treatise on the Mythos may be the first step in developing some character's occult Great Work. Like a new spell or some original bit of insight.
Purely for role-play purposes, there's the fact that a Mythos tome becomes a character's legacy. A form of immortality...possibly literally, if you start exploring the headier aspects of memetic magic. "I shall persist as pure information! And when someone, centuries hence, has read and understood my work, I shall be reborn in them! I will live forever!"
Fantastic idea!
This is fantastic, and it provides a great piece of material for future campaigns. Perhaps like a modern game discovers the collected poetry of an investigator from an earlier 1920's era investigator. Would be a fun bit of continuity, and the players would probably think it was really cool, especially the player of that previous investigator.
Thanks for the rules explanation, its a huge help. And congratulations on your nomination.
Just discovered you, Seth. Your videos are great!
This was a fantastic video Seth. Great work.
I only post on your videos. You are honestly such an INSPIRATION. just when I think I'm ready to carry on my dnd campaign another video comes up, and I get all excited to dive into Cthulhu again. Kick-start some cthulhu mystery modules. I am IN
Thanks for the video, Seth, and, also, congratulations on your Ennies nomination!
Thanks.
I didn't even know this existed! Thank you, Seth!
1993's Keepers Compendium has detailed info on many Mythos Spellbooks. Fascinating stuff for bibliophiles.
Great! Been missing these videos! Legion of Seth!
Getting into CofC and love all your videos! Subbed 🤘🤘🤘🤘
Seth's suggestions for future supplements at the end of this video are amazing. I want that book of artifacts so badly. I desperately hope someone from Chaosium has watched this video.
I have been waiting for this for a long time. I do have a question for you though. What is your opinion on Players gaining the Healing Folk Spell. I handed it out to my players after one became a apprentice to a old Chinese hermit, but I have a little doubt about its use. It seems a little to powerful for my, as one of my players put it, "Ultra-Murder-Death Games" and was wondering your opinion.
While I am here, thank you for all the reviews you have done. They got me into Cyberpunk, Delta Green and Call of Cthulhu. You really got me back into RPG's.
Maybe make it where it occasionally heals the wound in a horrible way. For instance, healing a head wound could cause something bad from baldness to blindness. I don't know the spell, but maybe a luck roll decides if the spell heals or hurts the target.
There's nothing that says that the ones who made the spell had humans in mind right, maybe the more "healing" that is needed, the more they start to resemble something else entirely, something with different senses maybe. Cancer and deformities could always be a side effect if it causes cell growth.
@@SpookyGroovyPolitoCatMum Did you have a stroke at the end there?
@@gossamera4665 excellent point friend
How do you not have at least 100x more subscribers?
You're the reason I'm looking into other game systems besides dungeons and dragons. Where before I had been too nervous, as I'm the GM in my friend group (and I'm very new to it), your videos have made it far less intimidating.
Before, I had only been hitting the like button. I'll start commenting more. Hopefully it'll help to convince the algorithm to show your work off to more people.
Your mention of a desire for a catalogue of artifacts... put the imagery in my head of the Bonesaw (and Peanuthead) being a nutjob doctor from an asylum. Already gone somewhat cuckoo, but well-intentioned.
And then the giant snake thing shows up because the new boss moved that rock!
I agree with Jack! More modern day call of cthulhu scenario reviews would be wonderful if possible please and thank you
Wow! Thank very much for this video. You are the Best.
Good review, I agree with the idea for a Tome focussed suplement, the old Keepers Companion books had a few suggestions on how to customise tomes, but little advice on how to create their own. There are also a lot of early 'one off' tomes (For example, 'The Dark Angel's Kiss') that need additional background. And you are absolutely right, again the Keepers Companions had a huge concordance of scenarios sorted by tomes and creatures which helped alert players to their existence.
I am really surprised of the demand in a book about mythos tomes because I own one of the last German edition of Call of Cthulhu (it was released 2004, a second edition in 2008 and called "Necronomicon: Geheimnisse des Mythos"). It is one of my favorite source books because of the detailed description of tomes, their origins, some facts about the authors, where you can find them, and how they influence readers (and their sanity). These descriptions are spiced up with some great stories about persons who try to handle the horror of these tomes.
Seth, the module the Special Menu found in Fears Sharp Little Needles deals with a mythos "tome" that is in DVD format.
Agree with everything in this video, particularly the missing references and the desire for follow-up books of artifacts and tomes.
Hey Seth, would you ever cover the new edition of the Malleus Monstoreum and your thoughts about it?
I only recently found your great Chanel and being a German Keeper I totally admire you for your work.
You should definitely check out German Cthulhu Supplement Necronomicon which has elaborate Background Infos on Mythos Tomes and is a great reference (There are several others on different topics like sanity and Mythos creatures as well)
Hello, Seth!
You have awesome videos about CoC! Thank you!
Can you make some videos about Masks of Nyarlathotep
Maybe just your ideas and opinion and not the full review
Hey,did Jack get a new hat?It looks nice(a little too wide-brimed.Looks almost like a Cowboy hat).....
Hey Seth at any point can you touch on the dreamland setting or the adventure the dreaming stone.
Seth, if you want deeper details on Mythos tomes, check out Chaosium's Keeper's Compendium or Keeper's Companion Vol. 1. They both contain expanded entries for tons of the books, including suggestions for spells to be found within. (The Companion is - I believe - a later version of the Compendium's contents, with revised entries.) I have the Compendium - it's one of my go-to resources. It should give you something to work with while you're waiting for the 7E version. :D EDIT: I'd totally forgotten about it, but these books have a large section covering cults in CoC. They also contain details in the tomes section for the "The Thurston Papers" - the compiled documents belonging to the Call of Cthulhu protagonist.
Awesome review as always. I am curious though, do you think you will be looking into Trails of Cthulhu at some point?
I'd love a video about how you use supplements like this, the weapons guide and other similar things. Often when I get these awesome books I feel a bit overwhelmed by all the information and data in them that I end up feeling like I'm wasting them because I barely get to use all of the spells or details in them. Like I have the Terror Australis book but who knows when I'm going to get to use all the little facts. Knowing how you use them and if you think there is a good way to tackle these sorts of book, sorta like a how-to run modules but for supplements would be much appreciated.
This book is a must for me. As odd as it sounds, I'm planning on running a crossover between Mage: the Ascension and Call of Cthulhu. I know they don't fit tonally, but it sounds like it would be fun. I'm interested what my mages will think about Lovecraftian magic.
I've been rewatching these Cthulhu videos cause they are so good. Gave me ideas for running a game set in B-Movie 50s time like Atomic Cthulhu or I was a Teenage Cthulhu. And even an anthology game series of one shot stories like Tales from the Crypt(Keeper). Like if I could still do it, I would introduce it with the voice of the Cryptkeeper.
love this book
Any great and insightful reviews, thanks for all your help. I was wondering, are you ever going to go 'Down darker Trails'?
Down Darker Trails looks neat, but westerns don't have that much appeal to me outside of 1 or 2 sessions.
@@SSkorkowsky I see, I can dig that. Cowboys and Mythos isn't for everyone.
All the things you want were printed in various Keepers Companions over the years. Having said that, I would love to see them updated and published again, annotated.
there are two volumes by stygian fox that cover it really well. A book of artifacts and the latest companion book that has amazing stuff like an underground american comic as a tome
A good resource for Mythos tomes and spells/rituals is the Delta Green Handler's Guide. There's a section of really helpful guidelines for creating your own monsters, tomes, and spells.
Your call for a Chaosium resource full of past mythos material makes me wish they would do an SRD like Paizo did with Pathfinder and WotC is now doing with DnD. I think they're afraid of losing out on money but it's a great way to push more units IMO.
That's a real nice looking journal at 8:50, where can I get one of those?
We picked that up at Texas Ren Faire several years ago. I think the shop was Magic Cauldron.
As always, Seth delivers!
Did Chaosium ever release a guide to mythos tomes as Seth suggested in this review?
Congratulations on your EnNie nomination. Well deserved.
Also, the 'Grand Grimoire' may be one of the best supplements ever for CoC.
I do wish they'd taken the time though to balance the spells a little better. There are I think too many spells where the SAN costs are either so low that the Keeper's only recourse is to keep the spell out of PC's hands, or so high that there is never really even a temptation for a player to try to acquire and cast the spell if they have even the faintest idea what it does (and this being CoC, not having the faintest idea what it does is the same as having no reason to cast it).
You know Seth, I've been thinking about your point of converting an investigator's notes into a "tome" itself and have a few rules in my head already. Lemme know what you think:
To figure out how much future folks can learn in mythos skill, do the following:
- Start with the player's mythos skill
- Ask the player how complete their "tome" will be in terms of relaying the knowledge of the mythos they have. Apply this to the skill, reducing is needed (so if they only include say 75% of what they've learned, it will be 75% of their mythos skill) and of course if they are still active players, they will need time to collect it all.
- Determine how high quality of a recording it would be. Here's a rough idea of what I came up with.
Scribblings and clipping: 15%
Poorly written journal: 30%
Decent book: 50%
Detailed book: 60%
Catalogued, indexed and referenced book: 70%
Drawings included: +5%
Pictures included: +15%
Video included: +30%
- Then have the character make an Arts & Craft: Writing roll. Give them a bonus die if they are a journalist or historian, or some other profession that is prided on recording things accurately.
Fail: -20%
Pushed fail: -30%
If Insane: no loss of mythos skill, but reading the tome causes additional loss of sanity as the book is a little too accurate.
Regular success: -10%
Hard Success: -5%
Extreme Success: No loss
-Take final % and apply to the percentage gotten before.
Yeah, I had a rather similar idea about copying information from a tome.
Effectively, any player that wanted to record information about a tome would have one of 2 options. Either they double the time they take reading the tome or they record only half of the entries rounded down (both half of the mythos gained and half of the amount of spells that it could have contained).
Anyone recording the tome with the express purpose of it being read by others will be prompted to roll a linguistics roll to measure how well one can articulate and describe this content in their own words. Giving bonus die to people with matching occupations in a cool idea. Failing this roll will mean the time it takes to read the copied information is extended by 50% of the time it took to read the source material and a particularly sloppy journal will require successful linguistics rolls to even study. Regardless of this, whatever you have written takes as long to read as the original tome does. A hard or extreme success would indicate the writer being able to express the information about the tome in a more concise and understandable way, cutting the time it takes to read by half or two thirds respectively.
Anybody that wanted to record spells would be required to roll the linguistics check. A failure will mean the spell is a poor forgery with some kind of defect. This could be more simple stuff like an increase in sanity or magic point cost or the effects of the spell becoming lesser, depending on what is applicable. Another idea could be that failing that linguistics check could prompt a roll similar to insane insight, where the mistaken understanding of the spell or simple errors in the duplicate will augment the effects of the spell in a more dramatic way, whether it's for the better or worse depending on how well the roll goes.
thanks a lot .
could you do a how to play cyberpunk series
I know it is late but there is a spanish system called "cultos innombrables". With it, you play as a cultist, good or bad intended, in a contemporary setting. Maybe you could extract some things of it like the use electronic devices and dinamics of cults.
Great review as always - but what did you think of the NPCs in the book? I thought the art, description and stats for the three sorcerers was pretty cool and the best bit of the otherwise useful but not so exciting tome.
Also loved your suggestion a supplement for cults.
The sorcerers were kinda neat, but not really useful for me. I figure they'll be great for some Keeper somewhere, but nothing I paid much attention to.
Great product, but I couldn't agree with you more about wishing Chaosium had referenced the source of each spell.
I bought this book within the past year because I am on a quest to come up with a new spell system for a D&D type game. The problem, as I see it, is that the way spells knowledge is given to D&D players steals a sense of wonder, awe, mystery, and even fear from the experience of playing the game. Moreover, it lends itself to "power gaming" in which players make comments like, "I can't wait until I get to fifth level so I can cast Fireball!" as if it were some automatic thing. I am doing research to create a system in which:
(1) Players don't know what magical spells are available until the DM reveals them. In other words, the Players Handbook doesn't give them.
(2) Players don't automatically gain spells as they level up, even if they gain more capacity to cats them. There must be a set of spell learning mechanics; for example the artifact flow charts in Gamma World or an amount of time/money that study costs.
(3) Spell casting has costs and consequences, such as spell components (that they have to find or buy), social or legal consequences if others witness the character casting a spell, the chance of insanity, and so on.
(4) The spells would have stats, as normal, but would also have all the "formulas" (verbal & material components, etc.) and the method of casting the spell, depending upon how the spellcaster draws power. This would place some burden on the spellcasting character, but also force the player to role play. That way, spells are not simple rules, but a part of the world that the spellcaster must negotiate.
I believe that RPG design should start with a body of fantasy (or other) literature that the group likes, followed by the world design scheme and supporting mechanics needed to make that literature come to life. My personal favorite type of fantasy lit is the 20th century Weird Tales (Lovecraft, Lieber, Howard, Smith, etc.). They give you the the strange flavor I like -- the sense that the world is a weird place.
So what influenced me on seeking the kind of mechanics above? The following:
(1) Gary Gygax on players who read the DM Guide (p. 8, first ed. DM Guide) -- "They are simply lessening their own enjoyment of the game by taking away the sense of wonder that otherwise arises from a game which has rules hidden from participants." I think Gygax made a mistake by putting spells in the Players Handbook.
(2) H. P. Lovecraft's quote: "The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is the unknown." Once you make spells known through rules, you take away all the fear of the unknown. What if it was just not that easy? What if something could go wrong? What if the player just did not know what would happen until they tried? (Players today seem to be more into control than fear.)
(3) I cannot remember the source exactly, but it comes from a book on fantasy lit that says something to the effect -- magic is the source of mystery in fantasy. Bruce Galloway makes a similar quote in his book "Fantasy Wargaming" on p. 17 -- "At the heart of fantasy wargaming lies the supernatural." Well, guess what? Spells fall under that category of "magic." You should not dispel the magic by codifying it and then just giving it away in a rule book. Let players discover it. Lovecraft's "The Case of Charles Dexter Ward" is a great example of someone trying to discover (or uncover) lost magic.
Anyway, I like some of the mechanics for magic in the Call of Cthulhu RPG and Modiphius Conan systems. I don't play those games, but I think that they are a good place to start. I am also looking into Zweihander as a source of ideas for how to make magic more "grim and perilous." :D
Check out Ars Magica's spell creation system.
Where did you get that shirt? I love it!
One of my players gave it to me. I'm about 80% sure he said he found it at a Game Stop
Could we get a"best all time Call of Cthulhu spells" video.
I've always wondered if players could teach each other spells...or Cthulhu Mythos skill 🤔
Man, that's a pretty book!
IMO, the very last thing you want to do with Mythos Magic is have it be consistent.
Seth, a question. You hit cthulu cyberpunk, and d and d. Notice no references to rifts or vampires bloodlines. Not a fan of those. Just curious
Never played Rifts. I always liked the lore of Vampire and enjoyed the video games, but never got that much onto the TTRPG. Though back in the late 90's there was this huge Vampire LARP that would happen at a Dallas goth club. I'd always get a kick out of watching them play while surrounded by all the regular club-goers.
2:06 fun thing about that: Lovecraft HATED Astrology and was going to be commissioned by Harry Houidini to work together and write an anti-Astrology article.
Also I'm stealing the mythos tomes as VHS boxed set. I'm going to mix it with the film The Endless and have the investigators reteuning to their old UFO death cult. Damn. Maybe I should write a module
The Endless is awesome.
Will you review Masks of Nyarlathotep?
Only if I play it, which is unlikely in the near future.
Hay Seth I know this might be a little late but, I thought I'd let you know that you can look on theTrove (no joke that's it's name) and get the PDF's for CoC (and a lot of other games to)for free and just use that & The Grimoire to make your own list and put it out there for everyone.
I agree with Jack you should run more DG
Hello Seth, I'm a Junior Keeper(Been running for 3 or 4 years, but with games very spaced between them) and I'm thinking about buying "Ripples from Carcosa", what do you think about it?
I really want to run it. I'd planned to run a short Invictus campaign, and then roll it into Chapter one of Ripples, but my players were's that keen on doing Invictus, so I'll probably eventually do it as a 3-part 1-shot.
What Post-it do you use? They do not mark permanently the book? I hate when the page is damaged by doing this to the book. Chaosium books are so good to be damaged.
I've never had Post-It brand notes or tabs damage the pages. Though, it isn't something I'd trust to an off-brand.
None of my current investigator team have dipped into casting yet. Not that I'm going to stop them, but as novices in novice adventures, the "hit it until it stops moving" strategy has been reliable so far. With the exception of "ask a half-ghoul to do the dirty work" and "hit it with a car until it stops moving.
A car is a very effective weapon... usually. And if not, it can at least help you escape... also usually.
Seth Skorkowsky The car in question was the yellow Buick belonging to Bill the recent divorcee (NPC/replacement investigator), in the Gla'aki adventure from the novice keeper book. The target, one once-human avatar of Gla'aki. The driver, Bill himself, having understood the PCs plan to get to the cars and having gotten his ready first.
The obliteration? Absolute.
Bill slumped half dead out of his nearly disintegrated car moments before the avatar (soaked in gasoline by another PC) went up in a fireball. So, he went to the hospital along with the guy who got one-hit to 0 hp by the avatar's punch. The guy who thought stabbing it was smart.
I've read Lovecrafdt and done a couple of dungeon crawl style adventure stories based on Cthuku myseldfi in which the protagonists fight back , You can use a couple of antoginists I've made up myself-
Scaleback ( a crocodillian entity whose lowerr half is entirely made up of tentacles and he carries an eternally bleeding kria knife and his favoured method is to rip peoples brains out (he's also insane-
Cheebra: an eight legeded entity who hides or lurks in shadows and likes to hunt his 'hits; down or drive them mad with paranoia (but he HATES light). Seth, you have my permission to use them but here're the good guys;--
J'dara-a french pheonix godess.
Geldra- a giant diamondback godess
Scaleback ( a crocodillian entity whose lowerr half is entirely made up of tentacles and he carries an eternally bleeding kria knife and his fdt
Is this the first appearance of detective C.Clavin?
I homebrewed a mythos tome that took the form of a series of children's books.
Oh that's beautiful
Do u have a episode about Achtung! Cthulhu?
Never played it. Ogled the books a few times at the game shop, but that's about it.
Have you've considered pitching your own book ideas at them to write?
Any word on the Malleus Monstorum?
I'd heard some mention about a 7e version coming out, but that's about it.
Man, this book has been on my wish list since about a year before it was released when it was first announced... Still haven't bought it :/
Anyone knows more subtle scenarios to run? Ones where the supernatural is more implied than in your face? my main problem with most of the CoC scenarios is that they start cool but ends with the party fighting ghouls and zombies and all that, and it really cheapens the whole story and reduces the cosmic horror aspect of it all.
Hey Seth,
Thanks for the (again) great review. You mentioned the lack of rules when it comes to the creation of mythos-tomes. I recently developed some house rules for that, which I'd like to share and to discuss:
Before I get into the rules I have to say that I needed to use some math to either not over- nor underpower the new mythos sources. The rules are founded on a mixture of both mythos-ratings of the 6th and 7th edition and their conversion-rules.
All in all there are 8 ranks / levels sources can have. I got some inspiration using this entry on "The Unspeakable Oath" (theunspeakableoath.com/home/2010/10/tuo-1-creating-and-using-mythos-tomes/). In the following I'll be referring to that table.
To the actual rules:
Investigators, who want to create a mythos source, first calculate its max. possible Mythos-points (see table: "Mythos-Points"). Therefore the investigator needs his own Cthulhu-Mythos value and another skill of his / her choice, representing the kind of mythos source (Writing = book, art = painting, stonemason art = sculpture, computer use = Bluray etc.).
Now the max. possible Mythos-points of the source is calculated: Mythos-points (see table) = (Skill (e.g. Art / Craft) / 25) + (Cthulhu-Mythos / 5)
On that way the Art / Craft-skill of the investigator supports the creation, but isn't that big factor of raising the Mythos-points, since the knowledge making the source special isn't commonplace. Using that formula you'll get a range of mythos-points between 1 - 24 (referring to the keepers guide, the Al Azif has a value of 18). Since you can only get a value over 18 if the Cthulhu-Mythos' value is very high, the investigator is most likely very close to madness - in such situations it is - to my mind - very (very very very very very !) rarely possible to create an even mightier source of the mythos than the Al Azif (if the keeper wishes).
To be able to create such a source the investigator at least needs to have 5 % Cthulhu-Mythos (my idea: The first bout of madness [+5 % Cthulhu-Mythos] inspires the investigator to process his / her experience in his / her source) AND needs to make a successful combined roll (chosen skill and Cthulhu-Mythos). If only the "chosen skill"-roll is successful, the investigator gets a good mundane work of art, if both rolls are successful, the investigator creates a mythos-source, which can be skimmed and studied (see "normal" rules). It has the rating of Mythos-points, which were calculated earlier. The other points can be calculated as followed:
CMI = Mythos-Points / 3 (round down)
CMF = Mythos-Points - CMI
MR = (CMI + CMF) x 3
Another rule sounds also very interesting (and motivating): If only the chosen-skill roll is successful the player could check if the rolled value would have been a success if astronomy / occultism (etc.) was rolled. If so the source could at least be a bit occult and might develop into a mythos-source later.
Now we get to the next point: developing the own mythos-source. It works as stated above. If the roll was successful the value raises to the mythos-points value, which was calculated before, otherwise nothing happens. If the investigator fumbles, the source would loose some mythos-points. Now you can use the following "table", which I made, inspired by TUO:
Source-rank 1 --> Mythos-Points 1 - 2 --> no. of spells 0 --> SAN 1d2 - 1d3
Source-rank 2 --> Mythos-Points 3 - 4 --> no. of spells 0 - 1 --> SAN 1d4 - 1d6
Source-rank 3 --> Mythos-Points 5 - 6 - 7 --> no. of spells 1 - 1 - 2 --> SAN 1d4 - 1d6 - 1d8
Source-rank 4 --> Mythos-Points 8 - 9 - 10 --> no. of spells 1 - 2 - 3 --> SAN 1d6 - 1d8 - 1d10
Source-rank 5 --> Mythos-Points 11 - 12 --> no. of spells 2 - 3 --> SAN 2d4 - 1d10
Source-rank 6 --> Mythos-Points 13 - 14 --> no. of spells 2 - 3 --> SAN 2d6 - 2d8
Source-rank 7 --> Mythos-Points 15 --> no. of spells 4 --> SAN 2d10
Source-rank 8 --> Mythos-Points 16 - 17 - 18 --> no. of spells 5 --> SAN 10+special
Source-rank 9 --> Mythos-Points >18 --> no. of spells 6 --> ????
All of that might sound a bit confusing, therefore an example is following:
Harvey Walters experienced a bout of madness seeing a Byakhee for the very first time and got + 5% Cthulhu-Mythos. He's a writer and has a total value of 70 % in art (literature). His total value of mythos-points, which a source created by him could have, are 3. If Harvey would succeed in a combined roll (maybe he gets some bonus-dice - keeper's decision), the player can add 0 number of spells to the source. Reading that source would cost 1d4 sanity. The source would have the following stats (7th.): CMI (1), CMF (2), MR (9). It is up to the keeper, if he / she rewards Harvey for coping with his experience (e.g. + 1d4 san) or punishes him for taking the first steps behind the veil of the mythos (-1d4 san).
If Harvey wouldn't make the Cthulhu-Mythos roll, but would have been successfull comparing the result to his value of occultism, he'll create a strange book about winged creatures of the night - some report telling about his confrontation with a "real vampire".
Time has passed and much happend to Harvey... He's very close to indefinite insanity and already experienced a paradigm shift long time ago (more Cthulhu-Mythos than SAN). He has 51 % of Cthulhu-Mythos and is head-warlock of a bigger circle, who worships Nyarlathotep. Harvey wants to create a "holy scripture" for his cult, which is meant to be the central scripture of that group - even after Harvey's death. Since he developed his writing-skills further (80%) his source's max. possible mythos-points are 13. Looking that value up, the player can add 2 spells - e.g.: Contact Nyarlathotep & Summon / Banish the Black Man. Reading that source would cost 2d6 san. The other stats would be CMI (4), CMF (9), MR (39) IF Harvey's combined roll is successful. It is and he develops the scripture on the basis of his former unholy text, which starts with Harvey's resurrection experience (Confrontation with the Byakhee).
In another reality Harvey isn't that lucky and didn't make the combined roll - he even fumbles. The source's mythos-points are decreased by 1 or 2 (He erased, adds lines of text... he just just rewrites it for the worse... Checking the table: if the number of spells decreases, Harvey just erased those pages, containing that number of spells. Blessing in disguise: The SAN-damage also decreases.)
Now we hope for the best, since Harvey helped us in the keeper's guide learning the rules. He is totally fused by the power of Nyarlathotep and got an extreme success. Now the source's max. possible mythos-points raises up to 14 (from 13) - with all the other influences regarding the table.
Wow - that was quite a lot to write down. I hope you can follow my sometimes confusing rules. I'm looking forward to read some ideas about it. :-)
Magic is always more powerful when a Buffy rerun is on.
I see that you are a writer. Do you write your own Call of Cthulhu scenarios?
I have. Though with CoC, I tend to prefer the pre-made scenarios that provide me with all the handouts and what-not, and then just tweak them for our group.
Funny you basically asked for Cults of Cthulhu in this review!
if only more people played CoC in Philly
Just as a poured a bourbon and looking for something to do.
"A whole book about cults"....looks like that wish was granted.
New hat Jack?
Excellent, as usual. However, more Conan, by Crom!!!
With respect to wither limb. Maybe both are correct. One of the wizard was just better at creating the spell then the other.
I'd personally love to see a video game as a mythos tome.
Phone apps would be neat, stuff like Simulacra or Sara Is Missing
Hi Seth, any chance for a review of Petersen's Field Guide to Lovecraftian Horrors?
HOW IS BABBY CULT FORMED
Great video there and I totally agree. (As I actually do a lot of times)
But concerning your false expectation. There Actually is a book giving you exactly the information you mention about mythos tombs. It's from 2008 and called Necronomicon (how inventive) and it is all about the more popular books of the mythos. On 260 and some beautyfull pages it gives you general ideas about occult and mythos tomes, expands on the lists from the rulebook and the old Keeper Compandions and even details many of the different editions of some of the books. You get a list of suggested spells as well as descriptions of the books and what topics they might contain. And on top it gives you suggestions how to drive home the alien nature of those books.
- Spoiler -
Like how the “Cultes des Goules” has a sickening stench wich makes it near impossible to read without blocking your nose with parfumed balls of cotton or the like and how this slowly grows less but you start to take one a disgusting smell as you progress studying. And than your food and groceries start to go spoiled and rotten in basically no time. But you don’t mind because it tastes better that way anyway.
- end Spoiler -
Unfortunatly the book has two gripes. First it is a german publication from Pegasus Press (which wouldn’t be a problem for me being from Germany) but it has been out of print for years now and because of some copyright Problems Pegasus was not able to publish a PDF version. And so the prices that are asked on ebay (if you can find it at all) are astronomical. I got my hands on a copy just a couple days ago and it was comparatively cheap, but I have seen prices as high as 250€ (that’s close to 300$).
So I guess my intent (aside form picking a little bit in open wounds and what keeper doesn't like to do that a little mti) was to say is that there actually used to be such a publication and I hope that Pegasus in germany and chaosium in the US (who according to the authors were in close contact during the development) will bring out a new edition for 7th Edition sometime soon.
Oh wow. I've not heard of this one. I hope they do bring something like this back for 7e (though I hope they change the name). In the meantime, hold on tight to the one you got. It's practically a Mythos Tome itself.
@@SSkorkowsky Actually I just read a post by the editor in chief of the german call of cthulu game that a new version of the book is planned for next year. But the name will be changed to "De Vermis Mysteriis" wich is a lot better in my opinion. I think I will prod a little bit if a backward translation to english is planed. I would love to see that. Basicaly I could care less but the stuff Pegasus has been putting out for the last like 20+ years has been great and I do not understand why there is not more excange towards the english. You guys are really missing out on some great modules and books. Which is a shame.