What an absolutely fantastic video. Massively appreciate such a detailed explanation and the fact that such a qualified individual has taken the time out of their day to make the video itself. Double happy considering I love the e39s. Good stuff.
Great explanation! TBO, car manufacturers having to rely on all-wheel steering to get a useful turn radius (also cornering, when super wide tires are not cutting it) just confirms the ongoing development of ever growing vehicle sizes and weights.
Awesome video. Would love to see some of your visualizations of the difference between the AP1 and AP2 S2000, particularly with how they calmed bump steer in the second generation. And maybe go into how the car manages to feel so planted while braking (anti-squat).
Thank you! All of your videos contain excellent information. I have over 40 years experience training techs/ engineering suspension components and would love to get your take on roll induced rear steer. I have developed a 4 link rear suspension for my street/ track C3. It utilizes toe links with cams which will allow setting roll induced rear steer for over steer, under steer, or zero toe change.
I recently bought one and I have to agree. Not just suspension, the whole car is really well made. I use it as a drift car/daily and it can suprisingly do both really well. Best car I ever owned👌
Appreciate this video a lot, as a three time (two currently) E39 owner, all wagons. Currently a manual swapped 540iT and a factory manual 525iT. Would love to see a video about the Weissach axle on the 928, with a 944 rear suspension as a comparison, since I also own both of these. Lol
Your videos are something to look forward to. Always something new to learn. Can I put in two requests? One about the Jaguar XJ40 pendulum link rear suspension and Ford's control blade rear suspension. I know that Ford here in Australia had major issues getting this fwd suspension to work with a powerful rwd car. They were bending blades like bananas!
wow this is amazing knowledge. i am an aspiring engineer and want to make electric cargo vehicles for the next 10-20years. Thank you for your wonderful clear and nice sounding narrative.
Great video. I now also understand why the E39 rear end feels so nervous when the rear subframe bushings are worn. Replaced the ones on mine and it made a huge difference!
I agree , after replacing every possible wear item in the rear , I replaced the subframe bushings (even though they looked good rubber hardens over time) and I now have my rock solid and totally stable feeling 97. 540i/6 sport sedan back. I just love this thing . For only 282 hp it’s really impressive how fast it is. I also own an M5 so I get to jump from one to the other and the biggest difference I believe aside from the obvious power increase is the lack of an Limited slip differential in the 540i. Eventually I’ll put a wavetrac in it .
Excellent video, I think a video about the rear suspension in the alfa romeo gt/147/156 would be very interesting, relatively simple setup with passive steering In any case, keep up the good work
I owned an E39, and it was the best ride/handling compromise of any car (except the MX-5 ND Mk 4 but they weighs considerable less). BMW's I owned afterwards never resolved the compromise so well. Don't even get me started on run-flat tyres!
BMW did well adapting the e31 integral axle to this. Some models had rear wheel steering. Bravo Wolfgang Matschinsky. My personal favourite is the w201’s multi link that matured to the w140 version.
Just got a 1991 850i/6. It’s now running next on the list is the entire suspension which I’m not looking forward to at all.. speaking of the W140, we owned a 95 S420 and that thing was the best highway car I’ve ever driven.
Love the videos, can you make a video explaining why the stabilizer bar links have changed from being a simple bolt with 4 bushings to links with 2 ball joints turning with the front strut, i don't understand this design, and why doesn't this type of link is attached to the lower control arm instead of the strut.
Please do a video or something similar for the Peugeot 407 suspension. Front double wishbone with a decoupled lower joint (like GM hiperstrut or RevoKnuckle) and 5 arm multi link rear suspension. All that on a French saloon/SW/Coupe. Thanks
I would like to see a video on the rear suspension on the first Ford Focus. I still think it was a clever design which got used in a variety of vehicles afterwards.
Great video Huibert, excellent use of CAE to illustrate the benefits and compromises of the Integral Link -v- DWB. With regard to the subject of RWS, I've also found some interesting complications to the traditional view of Ackermann, which might be worth you focusing your intellect on, if you have time (unless you've done this already). All the best - Pete
Hello Dange! Good to hear from you and thanks for the comment. Hope you are doing well. Making these CAE models is half the fun of making these videos. Interesting point about Ackermann with 4WS though. I haven't thought about it but it would certainly change things. Worth looking into.
I want to reiterate what Moneyshifters said, absolutely fantastic, massively appreciate your informative video/s, thank you. Any chance you might speak about anti-dive? Learning anything suspension related feels as good as money in my pocket. I had thought sub-frames were designed for production efficiency only, thanks for teaching, more please.
I would like to know more about Miata's multilink rear suspension and some front suspension designs where the upper "A-arms" are two separate rods with ball joints.
I wrote a blog on how a double balljoint lower arm works here: The concepts rare the same: www.theautopian.com/our-former-tesla-suspension-engineer-describes-why-the-double-ball-joint-suspension-is-so-incredible/ The idea is that same whether it's an upper arm or a lower arm. It makes no difference.
Whaoa, This is a very good video answering a ton of questions I had when looking at Tesla's S and X suspensions. These cars are known for «eating» rear tires due to an heavy negative camber on the rear Integral link suspension. Some companies even sell adjustable camber arms to correct this and reduce camber from 2.5° to 0.5° expanding a lot tire life. Could you elaborate on the impact of this rear camber change on handling and comfort ?
It probably won't make any difference for comfort but handling will likely get worse. The extra camber helps the rear suspension resist lateral load so with less camber in the rear I would expect the car to have less understeer. The steering feel will also be affected with the car becoming more twitchy, especially at highway speeds.
This is the S550 rear suspension. It is also the leading reason why the rear end seems so vague under performance driving thank to too many rubber bushings.
Thank you for your videos! They are very informative. I work on e39 for drift application, and I think that getting rid of the integral link and switching to the double wishbone style suspension with a custom knuckle will keep all the anti-squat properties of the subframe and provide clean motion of the knuckle through the entire range without unwanted deformations. Do you think this might work? Hope one day I can make a model of the e39 suspension to see how it going to behave in this case.
Agree… I own an e60 with active roll bars and think it handles wonderfully. It’s an underrated chassis IMO. I refreshed all bushings with OEM recently but added poly subframe bushings and am very happy with the results.
@@DaSixSixOne the ride will be sportier with poly bushings indeed. If you want to reach the pinnacle of handling in a E60, fit Koni Special Active shock absorbers.
@@hanynowskyI had the Koni’s but did not like them so replaced them with Bilstein B16 coilovers and they are much better. The Koni’s were underdamped. Bilstein’s handle considerably better and are adjustable.
"Multi-link" is a catch-all name for any suspension with multiple links. It really doesn't describe any specific geometry while Integral link is specific to the architecture I described.
Wow, did not know you worked at tesla. Amazing video! Would love to hear how you compare this to the newer teslas with 5-link suspension. And , maybe also why some of these cars (also the taycan) is very sensitive to having enough toe-in. Seems like they easily get in to a situation where they wear out the inside shoulder fast (toes out under acceleration? Big torque from stand still? Low profile tires? Heavy car?)
Agree!! I have lots of experience of Citroën CX's and to me it seems that many of the suspension issues in this example are solved differently and effectively. Instead of two separate sub frames it has front and rear sub frames connected with longitudal 'frame beams' and the whole body is 'floating' on soft bushings connecting it to the frame.. and if I remember correctly, Rolls Roys used the same concept. All bushings are metal to metal with no flexibility whatsoever except the lower front control arm that has a bushing with a small amount of flexibility. All other bearings are of roller bearing type. It made the whole car behave extremely well and predictable in 'ruff' conditions. I would also love to have that reviewed here. Great video 👍
I bought this car on 2016 because its confort, but let me tell ya after 300k losts of repairs need to be made, f.e. silent blocks, water hoses, rods rubbers rotten, etc..
Great video! As an FSAE student, I appreciate you making videos like this so easy to understand and accessible.
What an absolutely fantastic video. Massively appreciate such a detailed explanation and the fact that such a qualified individual has taken the time out of their day to make the video itself. Double happy considering I love the e39s. Good stuff.
Great explanation! TBO, car manufacturers having to rely on all-wheel steering to get a useful turn radius (also cornering, when super wide tires are not cutting it) just confirms the ongoing development of ever growing vehicle sizes and weights.
Awesome video. Would love to see some of your visualizations of the difference between the AP1 and AP2 S2000, particularly with how they calmed bump steer in the second generation. And maybe go into how the car manages to feel so planted while braking (anti-squat).
I was going to ask for the same video haha
Thank you! All of your videos contain excellent information. I have over 40 years experience training techs/ engineering suspension components and would love to get your take on roll induced rear steer. I have developed a 4 link rear suspension for my street/ track C3. It utilizes toe links with cams which will allow setting roll induced rear steer for over steer, under steer, or zero toe change.
I thought I was the only one who recognized the greatness in the e39 suspension compromise. Thanks for a better understanding!
I recently bought one and I have to agree. Not just suspension, the whole car is really well made. I use it as a drift car/daily and it can suprisingly do both really well. Best car I ever owned👌
No problems with the mic now! The information packed into this 12 minute video is just incredible!
Thank you. I guess I'll be ordering a new mic now.
I put poly subframe mounts in my e46, and for some reason I can feel everything!
Appreciate this video a lot, as a three time (two currently) E39 owner, all wagons. Currently a manual swapped 540iT and a factory manual 525iT.
Would love to see a video about the Weissach axle on the 928, with a 944 rear suspension as a comparison, since I also own both of these. Lol
Great explanatory video 💯
Excellent video. Thank you! 👍
Your videos are something to look forward to. Always something new to learn. Can I put in two requests? One about the Jaguar XJ40 pendulum link rear suspension and Ford's control blade rear suspension. I know that Ford here in Australia had major issues getting this fwd suspension to work with a powerful rwd car. They were bending blades like bananas!
Ohhh that pendulum rear suspension. ❤❤
Suggest a future video on the Lotus Elan (the 1960's version), I've heard many say that it is the best handling mass produced car every built.
wow this is amazing knowledge. i am an aspiring engineer and want to make electric cargo vehicles for the next 10-20years. Thank you for your wonderful clear and nice sounding narrative.
As my current goal car is the F10 5 Series, the more I can learn about this the better! keep up the good work, I hope to learn more here
Great video. I now also understand why the E39 rear end feels so nervous when the rear subframe bushings are worn. Replaced the ones on mine and it made a huge difference!
I agree , after replacing every possible wear item in the rear , I replaced the subframe bushings (even though they looked good rubber hardens over time) and I now have my rock solid and totally stable feeling 97. 540i/6 sport sedan back. I just love this thing . For only 282 hp it’s really impressive how fast it is. I also own an M5 so I get to jump from one to the other and the biggest difference I believe aside from the obvious power increase is the lack of an Limited slip differential in the 540i. Eventually I’ll put a wavetrac in it .
Just came across your channel the other day. I hope you do more car specific suspension design analysis!
Excellent video, I think a video about the rear suspension in the alfa romeo gt/147/156 would be very interesting, relatively simple setup with passive steering
In any case, keep up the good work
Great presentation. I really like to learn how things like this work together from people like you, who has proper knowledge.
This is a very neat description. Thank you.
I owned an E39, and it was the best ride/handling compromise of any car (except the MX-5 ND Mk 4 but they weighs considerable less). BMW's I owned afterwards never resolved the compromise so well. Don't even get me started on run-flat tyres!
I daily a '97 e39 with the 15' bbs wheels. The ride is superb.
BMW did well adapting the e31 integral axle to this. Some models had rear wheel steering. Bravo Wolfgang Matschinsky.
My personal favourite is the w201’s multi link that matured to the w140 version.
Just got a 1991 850i/6. It’s now running next on the list is the entire suspension which I’m not looking forward to at all.. speaking of the W140, we owned a 95 S420 and that thing was the best highway car I’ve ever driven.
What an absolute gem of a video, excelent work, you have gained a subscriber
Love the videos, can you make a video explaining why the stabilizer bar links have changed from being a simple bolt with 4 bushings to links with 2 ball joints turning with the front strut, i don't understand this design, and why doesn't this type of link is attached to the lower control arm instead of the strut.
Please do a video or something similar for the Peugeot 407 suspension. Front double wishbone with a decoupled lower joint (like GM hiperstrut or RevoKnuckle) and 5 arm multi link rear suspension. All that on a French saloon/SW/Coupe. Thanks
I would like to see a video on the rear suspension on the first Ford Focus. I still think it was a clever design which got used in a variety of vehicles afterwards.
Thanks for the suggestion. You're not the only one who is asking about this so I will put it on the list.
Great video Huibert, excellent use of CAE to illustrate the benefits and compromises of the Integral Link -v- DWB. With regard to the subject of RWS, I've also found some interesting complications to the traditional view of Ackermann, which might be worth you focusing your intellect on, if you have time (unless you've done this already). All the best - Pete
Hello Dange! Good to hear from you and thanks for the comment. Hope you are doing well. Making these CAE models is half the fun of making these videos. Interesting point about Ackermann with 4WS though. I haven't thought about it but it would certainly change things. Worth looking into.
So good! Thank you. Looking for something on the f10 / f01 suspension too.
I want to reiterate what Moneyshifters said, absolutely fantastic, massively appreciate your informative video/s, thank you. Any chance you might speak about anti-dive? Learning anything suspension related feels as good as money in my pocket. I had thought sub-frames were designed for production efficiency only, thanks for teaching, more please.
Thank you. Funny you should ask about anti-dive. I'm about 95% through a video on just that topic. Look for it in the coming days.
Amazing video, great explanation and illustration. Subscribed and can’t wait to see more
Really interesting video here, thanks for taking the time to make it.
Great video.. maybe the integral link is why im always thinking about my old e39’s and how well they drove
I read that comment over and over from former E39 owners. They miss their old car.
I would like to know more about Miata's multilink rear suspension and some front suspension designs where the upper "A-arms" are two separate rods with ball joints.
I wrote a blog on how a double balljoint lower arm works here: The concepts rare the same: www.theautopian.com/our-former-tesla-suspension-engineer-describes-why-the-double-ball-joint-suspension-is-so-incredible/
The idea is that same whether it's an upper arm or a lower arm. It makes no difference.
Hi Hubert, Please could you do a video explaining the Ford 'Control Blade' suspension which was introduced on the First generation Ford Focus in 1998?
You might want to check out the new Can Am utv front suspension . It works but people don’t get the reasoning behind it .
Whaoa, This is a very good video answering a ton of questions I had when looking at Tesla's S and X suspensions.
These cars are known for «eating» rear tires due to an heavy negative camber on the rear Integral link suspension. Some companies even sell adjustable camber arms to correct this and reduce camber from 2.5° to 0.5° expanding a lot tire life. Could you elaborate on the impact of this rear camber change on handling and comfort ?
It probably won't make any difference for comfort but handling will likely get worse. The extra camber helps the rear suspension resist lateral load so with less camber in the rear I would expect the car to have less understeer. The steering feel will also be affected with the car becoming more twitchy, especially at highway speeds.
Do I have just find the best channel in yt? Pretty sure i do
Could you do a similar video of how to work out anti squat on BMW E36 rear suspension please?
very good video, thanks a lot!
This is the S550 rear suspension. It is also the leading reason why the rear end seems so vague under performance driving thank to too many rubber bushings.
Thank you for your videos! They are very informative. I work on e39 for drift application, and I think that getting rid of the integral link and switching to the double wishbone style suspension with a custom knuckle will keep all the anti-squat properties of the subframe and provide clean motion of the knuckle through the entire range without unwanted deformations.
Do you think this might work?
Hope one day I can make a model of the e39 suspension to see how it going to behave in this case.
One of the reasons I bought a BMW E60. It has the same rear suspension design as the E39 with slightly better anti-rolling.
The active anti roll bars in the e60 are crazy expensive and genius yet somehow very very rarely have issues. Great system.
@@moneyshifters totally agree.
Agree… I own an e60 with active roll bars and think it handles wonderfully. It’s an underrated chassis IMO. I refreshed all bushings with OEM recently but added poly subframe bushings and am very happy with the results.
@@DaSixSixOne the ride will be sportier with poly bushings indeed.
If you want to reach the pinnacle of handling in a E60, fit Koni Special Active shock absorbers.
@@hanynowskyI had the Koni’s but did not like them so replaced them with Bilstein B16 coilovers and they are much better. The Koni’s were underdamped. Bilstein’s handle considerably better and are adjustable.
Great insight to a very versatile suspension! Any idea on why Tesla later moved to five-link on the Model S?
gold
So could you explain how multilink suspension works?
What's your opinion of the Volvo 850 rear suspension, speaking of rear steering?
How does anti-squat work with an integral link and can it be adjusted/optimized for performance applications?
great animations
thank you
Would a ball joint in the toe link also help with performance?
Gues the mic on your Adams-Appel was not such a good idea... otherwise, a brilliant explanation.
Integral link first came with E38, though. 0:58
Insta-subscribe. Thank you very much, very nice video.
Doesn’t the rear movement affect toe?
Are multi link and integral link different designs?
"Multi-link" is a catch-all name for any suspension with multiple links. It really doesn't describe any specific geometry while Integral link is specific to the architecture I described.
Wow, did not know you worked at tesla. Amazing video! Would love to hear how you compare this to the newer teslas with 5-link suspension. And , maybe also why some of these cars (also the taycan) is very sensitive to having enough toe-in. Seems like they easily get in to a situation where they wear out the inside shoulder fast (toes out under acceleration? Big torque from stand still? Low profile tires? Heavy car?)
please review citroen
Agree!! I have lots of experience of Citroën CX's and to me it seems that many of the suspension issues in this example are solved differently and effectively. Instead of two separate sub frames it has front and rear sub frames connected with longitudal 'frame beams' and the whole body is 'floating' on soft bushings connecting it to the frame.. and if I remember correctly, Rolls Roys used the same concept. All bushings are metal to metal with no flexibility whatsoever except the lower front control arm that has a bushing with a small amount of flexibility. All other bearings are of roller bearing type. It made the whole car behave extremely well and predictable in 'ruff' conditions. I would also love to have that reviewed here. Great video 👍
Are you Mechanical engeneer?
I bought this car on 2016 because its confort, but let me tell ya after 300k losts of repairs need to be made, f.e. silent blocks, water hoses, rods rubbers rotten, etc..
Jaguar cars have the best integral link systems
🫂
What a great video!
A little advice, move your microphone away from your throat, so we dont listen how you swallow your saliva 😅
take a shot everytime you hear him swallow lol
I would be awesome if you could put the mic at another place so we dont ear you swallow 👌
Next time put your mic some place else so we do not have to hear you swallowing
Is it good? It is awful