Love your videos. I’m pretty sure “surrogate” means the speaker playing the performance is a stand in (or surrogate) for the performer, so the performance is the same each time, and ideally only the mic and mic technique changes.
@@sommerklange Yes, you've got it. The ADAM S3H was by far the best-suited existing studio monitor for this application. The ATC SCM45A was a very close second that we also employed. Thanks for your comment! -Alex
Whilst the fabled u47 may deserve being held in such high esteem, I think it's impossible to get its sound dead on. There are so many variables down to circuitry, and components. Some of the clones are remarkably different in comparison to it. However, that may work for someone better than an actual u47 in certain use cases as no two recordings are ever going to be identical (factoring in recording space, musicians, instruments/tuning, etc.). So while I don't appreciate the snake oil side of it, I can see that they have their place in someone's mic locker. As you said it's 100% best to test out an expensive microphone yourself and see how it works for you.
There are some extra handy comparison features in Audio Test Kitchen which your viewers can also use, such as 1. Showing individual frequency response curve/ analyser as each mic selection automatically appears 2. Play a 'loop' section, rather than keep resetting the start time with your mouse like you did. Very helpful website indeed.
Sound On Sound found a really interesting way to compare gear a few years ago. They have used one of the modern Yamaha player grand pianos (essentially, a grand piano that responds to MIDI), miced it up, then used this setup to test different mic preamps. Their result - there's much less difference than we thought there was. :) I think a similar setup could be used to test mics in a setting more natural than recording a monitor, but I don't know if SOS has ever tried using that setup to compare mics.
Yes, it's a smart approach we also used. Yamaha loaned us a self-playing Disklavier acoustic piano which we recorded in close and far mic positions in EastWest Studio 2. Thanks for your comment! -Alex
Alex Oana at @AudioTestKitchen team did an amazing job with the testing and site. Where I live, I have no access to 1/3 of the microphones on the list. ATK helped me narrow down my selection to a Vanguard Audio Labs V13 that more than met my requirements and desires. Alex has done a number of podcasts and can easily be found talking about his background and process. I can't wait until they are able to expand on the mic selections and different components.
Hi Wyste. I posted a comment thanking you for your awesome video and clarifying a few details about ATK, but I can no longer find that comment. It's helpful information for everyone here. Do you have a policy against posts by the subject of your videos? Thanks -Alex (Founder of Audio Test Kitchen)
4:13 Even if its not the same, if all of them were done the same way, you can at least compare to mics that you know which already seems pretty useful to me 5:58 If you purchase online in the Netherlands (or maybe even the EU) they are required by law to let you send it back within 14 days as long as you unpacked it neatly and there is no damage etc. So yes, this is very possible with for example Thomann.
That speaker is an Adam Audio, they have ribbon tweeters. Although many aren't a fan of their high frequency sound. That one looks like an S3H but their A7x and A5X are more widely used.
@@abrahamortiz9812 our first library includes only LDC microphones new for sale. We asked AKG to provide a C12 VR, but one was not available. And we did capture the Neumann U67 reissue on some sources, but the microphone wasn't released in time to have complete content. I recommend joining the newsletter so you can learn when we release new content and gear. thanks! -Alex
I'm currently using an Antelope Audio Edge Solo microphone on my vocals for a solo project I'm working on during the down time. The microphone sounds very good without models when I'm tracking and it cuts the track well. I don't really notice the difference between models with my voice soloed but I do notice large differences between models when mixing down. I've noticed that the mic model will make a difference in how my vocal sits in the mix.
Nice, you put my favourite and main mic on your list (the c414). One mustn't forget the effort these people put on that page. You're right I would like to hear some vintage mics as well, but then again, people can't buy them and the more vintage they are, the more they start to be different copy by copy.
Yes, and the cool thing is that each of us can make our own conclusion based on what's important to us. Now that there's a trustworthy information database, we don't have to rely on the hype, and marketing, and what other people say. Thanks for your comment! -Alex
Audio test kitchen taught me that the Telefunken U47 has a magic that the clones don’t. But I couldn’t afford it, so I hired Monheim Microphones to clone it. Don’t know if it’s exactly the same, but it sounds delicious.
I question their method, due to the results. I lined up several contrasting mics, including the SM7B and the AT4033a. I compared the solo male vocals; I tried looping some of the most sibilant phrases and comparing; I tried looping some of the high-range singing; I tried looping some of the low-range singing. The fact that they were so close in sound makes me sceptical of their method. I own those mics and I would not be able to get them to sound so similar without using EQ! While a lot of LDCs sound very similar, I know for a fact that the SM7B and the JZ Black Hole (for example) do not sound that close on a male vocalist. The fact that bright condensers sound similar to dark dynamics on their tests makes me curious about the methodology, as I would not be able to replicate their audio results with those mics without trying quite hard!
I had the slate microphone modeling system and was TOTALLY unimpressed! I've been moving away from plug ins in general and more towards analog. Just bought a GA ribbon mic for less than $200 and it's by far the best mic I've ever used!
If you have the best mic that will outperform all other mics you can in theory use a plug-in like this, so it is a snake oil story. But again, you can only add distorsion. The question is if they do that in the right way or do they only add a EQ curve ? Adding distorsion is difficult i think, there is a lot going on in tubes, wires, diodes, transformers that cant be emulated, i dont think this emulation is doing so.
I love getting the you tube link in patron because then i can see it on you tube and smash that like button. Could this be done with impulse responses? Also re: testing mics with recording a guitarist with different mics -- record the guitar track as a DI, then *play it back* through a guitar amp and rotate the microphones through? That way you get the same performance with only the cabinet and mic different.
Yes, only valuable for relative comparison of the similarities and differences between mics. Especially if you can start with a mic you already know well.
What you are looking at is a mixture of cloned mics and virtual mics, I have that Antelope Solo's and they are actually 12 mics, you can select the model before or after you record and the mic is good for recording without any software too. The Flea is a hardware mic made to emulate one microphone, likely the U47. Why are they mixing them together?
You make a great point about the importance of good monitoring. In our experience, when there are differences to be heard, they can be heard on any monitoring reference the listener is familiar with. An interesting result of removing all variables except the mics themselves is that sometimes the differences between mics are quite small. Thanks for your comment! -Alex
@@AudioTestKitchen Alex, I completely agree. Here in my space, between my ADAM A7x's and the little iLoud MTM's, I could hear the difference the greatest with the MTM's. They're surprisingly good little monitors. Hope all is well with you guys!
I went to Vintage King in Hollywood,Ca. after NAMM SHOW 2020 to buy my Condenser. This is where Eric ( AudioTEST KITCHEN ) worked. I tried all 47's up against the Telefunken 47 FLEA, WUNDER.... all responded different as we Recorded my Vocals (dry )then COMPARED. they all had different. Frequency Responses but were close. ( big difference in Price ) AT one I did a Shoo-Out with 4 -47's in Vocal Booth singing 1 time. for best comparison.
Hi George. You make a good point. You were able to have an in-person experience with the microphones in a great showroom. For 99.9% of the world, they won't be able to do that. I'm confident that when people listen to a number of the available 46 sources on Audio Test Kitchen from the comfort of their own home, they'll be able to discern the differences needed to make a very informed and confident microphone choice. Thanks! -Alex
@@AudioTestKitchen Yes Eric, hen I Saw you with Warren Huartt there years back on CZcams made me start buying Gear there plus hear the difference between all 26 Condenser MICs. What you did with Audio Test Kitchen what very helpful too to me to make my decision for a Vocal Mic for me :) George Amodei. Thank again
@@AudioTestKitchen Bought FLEA, WUNDER & Telefunken U 47's Brought Home to Vocal Booth all set up fora DRY Audio File ( saw the Frequency Response on Audio Spectrum.... Plus took my Room in concentration ( Wore Head Phones also). I went with Wunder CM7 GS with M7 Capsule., didn't compare the K47 Capsole. FLEA was very good too. Telefunken was the BEST but for approx. $4K MORE I can be Happy and tweak w/ EQ :) Hope you staying SAFE & HEALTHY Thx Again, George Amodei
@@AudioTestKitchen Wunder CM7 GS M7 Cap. not K7 Cap. Flea was very good also but BEST was Telefunken but for the difference of approx. $4K I can be happy w/ what II Bought. Hope your staying SAFE & HEALTHY!!! Thx Again for your Hard Work :) George Amodei
Well, I'm not sure that this isn't snake oil. I own several of the mics the website provides, and honestly they sound nothing like the "samples" that they have on the website. For one thing, the SM57 sample they provide sounds quite scooped... no 57 I have ever used sounds scooped. I've used SM57s since the late 1970s in dozens of different studios and live events and it doesn't sound like an SM57 to me. The Soyuz Bomblet in there is dull and flat on the top end, while the one I own has loads of top end sparkle. I actually have the frequency curve print out of my Bomblet and compared it to the one on the website and its very different (and the audio samples don't even sound like what that curve should sound like)--not at all what I would expect from a high-end hand made mic... very weird. I found this again with several other mics, such as the AKG 414XLS (I have 4 in my studio) which I am also very familiar with... they just don't sound like I would expect. Also many of these mics have different polar patterns, pads and shelves that could change the sound dramatically, but there is no indication if any of those were used. Since there is no such thing as a perfectly flat, colorless microphone, speaker or room, I understand why they would try to eliminate those variables. But the fact that they record this with essentially a calibration mic and play it back through an Adam studio monitor (interestingly, I also own two sets of Adams and know them very well) in an anechoic chamber (which 99% of people have never experienced) just means that the entire concept is flawed. No one ever records or listens that way and recording mics weren't designed to be used that way. Comparing things in an environment you will never use is like smelling flowers in space. Pointless. I think that this site is going to be very misleading for a lot of people. The collected knowledge of professional engineers and producers who know how these mics perform in typical recording environments on various instruments has worked pretty damn well for many decades. I'm sticking with that.
You know these mics being used in real environments, this is all tested in an anechoic chamber so it makes sense that it sounds nothing like a real room. In addition they use some impulse response filter to 'remove' the speaker and other influences. (I really doubt if this is really possible tho... it's still a recording of the speaker you are hearing) To me this seems more like a tool to compare mics, you don't really get a sense of how they actually sound when being used in a real recording.
Well put! My AKG 414XLS stereo pair is very different sounding depending on the polar pattern. The polar pattern of any mic affects the recorded sound A LOT in any actual space that isn't an anechoic chamber, even more so if there are multiple instruments being recorded at the same time in the same space. Basically, if you intend to record audio that isn't supposed to be totally dry, I don't see the point of comparing mics in this particular way...
Hi Wes. Thanks for sharing your concerns. I can see why you would make these comments without having a complete understanding of our process. You can learn how we eliminated variables, captured 46 real sources and recorded all the microphones in 11 different acoustic environments in 4 studios on our blog www.audiotestkitchen.com/behind-the-scenes and our CZcams channel. Please let me know if you have any questions. I also left a general comment under Wyste's excellent video. All the best, -Alex
Nice video, tried this web long ago and find it useful, I compare my mics using a guitar looper pedal, strumming at different levels in a riff, for example with the neck pick up of a less paul that have lots of lows and then change to bridge to get also higher highs, then I can record all my mics in different positions, angles and combinations with exactly the same take every time, I measure the distances and take notes in protools etc.. so I can recall the sound I need.. very easy, right now my go to for guitar is an SM58 (without the shell cover) or a vintage Sony F230A very close facing the edge of the cone but perpendicular to the side for the higher mids, and a R102 Ribbon for the low-mids further away facing straight to the center, having to deal later with phase issues of course.. but the blend of those two is amazing, unfortunately that Sony isn't there, is too old, and cheap! :D stay up!
For me the ultimate snakeoil is vst instruments promising all sorts of sheeet and when you start using it and hold a chord theres just prerecorded lines on a key. Or when you put on a plugin that is gonna give the sound some awesomeness you notice theres just a recorded effect meshing and crushing your beautiful track
DareTheDragon I don’t know what kind of plugins you’re buying, and I have no clue what the hell kind of effect or “audio fix” you’re talking about. Can you be specific? What plugins do that? And what are they supposed to be doing?
@@russellszabadosaka5-pindin849 dude. It was just an example. I never buy snakeoil. I research different option sometimes for months before i spend money. Have a pleasant day
DareTheDragon sorry man, I didn’t mean to come off like an asshole. I just couldn’t figure out what kind plugin you were talking about. It’s no big deal. Anyway sorry about the way I came off.
How you get the guitar to soundthe same every time is you direct input to your audio interface and use the same recording, then put the microphones in the same location, the same distance from the speakers and you use a SPL meter and there you have it.
I'd guess they leave out vintage microphones since they are all different from one to another one after decades of aging, and also as a result of whomever serviced them over the years. It is a fun site.
Flea are great. We have known Flea a long time and they wanted to participate in Audio Test Kitchen at a much deeper level with more microphones. Unfortunately the timing was really bad for them and they weren't able to send us any production examples. ATK had to independently source the two Flea mics you hear on our site. We're confident Flea will be fully represented in the future. Thanks! -Alex
Oh, watched it now... not what I thought... the beauty of click bait lol Interesting way to find new things to look at closer. I love your thomann mic collection, it's pretty similar to mine... big fan of the u47 FET
Many microphones 'can' work in many situations. You can get creative with whatever you've got. I've recorded CZcams voiceovers using just my iPhone and some processing. Whatever works! But, I have to say, an amazing microphone can make it so much easier to sound amazing. Thanks for your comment! -Alex
I too, love that they tried to write on a whiteboard! I actually think they might have succeeded (based on the evidence)!! Very funny off-the-cuff comment. :)
Haha. Fake it until you make it, they say. Those guys standing at the whiteboard are the Harman scientists we work with. Day #1, conversation #1 started at the whiteboard. That was just the first baby step in several months of R&D to get it right. You can read and watch more about it here: www.audiotestkitchen.com/behind-the-scenes. Thanks! - Alex
I find mostly, the sound is almost the same, but they don't ever replicate the feel... it's the feel that is more real than you... a sound that inspires greater part of yourself... if they designed a clone based on our own chemistry, that might become better than the originals and even make the next gen of analogue equipment that will become the next classics. Can't watch now, not got time, but this is a very thought about subject for me so I'm interested to hear your thoughts. Love the channel, always, keep pushing through to greater depths we always find
Plus also the fact it greatly narrows down the batting field for product decision. You might already have this, I haven't had a chance to look properly yet but search filters like price range would help also.
@@AudioTestKitchen It very hard to have a universal method that is perfect for this, but this doesn't really matter too much when you consider it to be a a tool for narrowing down the selection to then research and small amount of microphones. Often with microphones or gear you often get sold on the idea of a sound and not the sound. Whenever you get something high end if you're not used to it you'll always be pleased with what you get, but you could have fine tuned that sound a little, a impossible task when you can't compare side by side the products. The amount of difference sometimes is minimal and that difference preference can change with too much of a gap. I've learned myself that I should not only listen to a sound but check how it makes me feel, that is what I have learned in this journey myself. A good feature to have is a blind test option once a set of microphones are found and 1 to 5 scale of rating as they play through multiple times each and then tally it up at the end, this would also be great information for the companies of microphones to want to buy. I would be really nice to see a small amount of preamp selection, which might be easier through the line level signal. Just to get a idea of how the microphones sound through different types of preamp. Have a two levels prices, mid and high, then different types, like Tube, Transformer, solid state etc... I'm looking myself the have two Rupert Neve 517's and two AMS Neve 1073LB's, it would be nice to get a idea at least with the 1073 or something close what the microphones might sound like through Neve transformers. But if I was to think that there are cheap alternatives and it would be good to hear those also. Lindell Audio do a great 500 series Vintage line, Golden age project and etc etc. The issue I know with this will be you will need to make, if you have 6 preamps, make 6 times more recordings. So would be something that would be nice in the future when it is finically viable. You intend on doing other equipment at some point so I'm sure something like this is already in the works as my ideas are quite basic. Although, they are important. As someone not so fortunate in finical success I spend most of my time researching, thing like this will see me better buys when each time comes. I've now seen the site properly and can say it is very well thought out, not go in to it properly, not had time recently. I would say there's not much to complain about, only a wealth of ideas of what else there could be. I really hope you have good patterns for this idea, as the first, you deserve to be the main provider for this. I'm already a big fan of the online analogue services, where I can process a few key things and get that last little bit I need. For, really, you must have everything correct before then to really utilise them. But Microphones, you need those here, so this is a good format to start from. I'm sure in time you'll find more innovative ways to do this and then even converters could be tested as well as maybe there being a digital booking in process to allow people to control it how they want. You'd need a bit of a factory to do that and that is me being over ambitious with ideas as like to, I like to because why not?... If I can't make a idea happen someone else might be able to... it only the formalities of a capitalist system that makes it necessary to protect ideas, I personally live how I would live in my most favoured system structure, one with out hierarchies that is simple about us working together for each other with a massive emphasis on individual creativity... Dream Dream... I will say more once I've had a good look at the site and do the process to find what I want in different price ranges. Currently my choices before using this are Neumann TLM 107, Neumann KN183, Coles 4038 and a EV RE27N/D... Or... Just get one Neumann U47 FET. My choices might not change but my confidence might increase or decrease to keep searching... either way or any it will be a positive experience Certainty is the greatest pursuit
Its not impossible. Just use a looper and record something. Then you can play it back out of the amp and record with whatever microphone afterwards. Or in a studio you can use reamp techniques. Does that make sense?
I’m gonna use my looper and experiment with real-time adjust knobs on the amp while recording the amp. Like and fully analog automation like with a synth
I LOVE emulation microphones. They will NEVER replace the hardware they are trying to but as far as solid quality Mics with Great sound.. Paying $500 for Slate system and getting 12 mics is pretty dope. We have bought 2 Slate ML1 and 5 Slate ML2. Fantastic for drum micing
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the problem is that all microphones (within on line, so if you buy 100 Rode nt1 mics they will all be slightly different) differ from each other ... even measurement microphones. There are studies on that and everybody knows that ... the problem now is that there is a fixed filtercurve in these modeling programs so the results will fit better or worse ... i love the technology and already had the slate ml1, ml2 and the antelope edge duo but idk ... the manufacturer needs to make a source calibration file for every mic and then let the software match to target curves instead of just applying a fixed IR to match the sound of other mics... and even cheap measurement mics come with individual calibration files so price wise this should be possible ... i think once they do that there is not much left to do ... i also think another problem is the price, townsend audio does this right ... slate, suffers from their low price, The ml2 breaks easily, and the decoupling is bad but the software is amazing, antelope offer better source mics but the simulation is less accurate ... townsend is the best of both imo
Excellent observations. Yes, you're right - every microphone varies slightly due to manufacturing tolerances. It's typical that the more expensive the mic, the better the quality control, and the more closely it will match its own spec. Our audio samples accurately represent the character and tonal personality of the microphones. Thanks for the comment and sharing your experiences with modeling mics. Is this what you hear on ATK? -Alex
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@@AudioTestKitchen Oh thanks a lot for the answer! What an honor! I love Audio testkitchen! :) My last purchases were all made with checking the mics on audio test kitchen first! ... What do you mean by "Is this what you hear on ATK?" (My english is not that good sorry)
@ Your English is great and you answered the question perfectly! This is so wonderful to hear - music to our ears. Thanks so much and stay in touch :) Alex
The polarity options of the l22 are the most amazing part of it. It's something you can't achieve with "a little bit of eq" and I feel like I really learn something by using them.
I wouldn't necessarily call snake oil. They need to adjust their claims a little maybe, but if you're on the market for a budget tube mic, some of these fill the need!
Couldn't get the site to work properly- can't hear any difference between mics at all. Plus it's buggy, doesn't do what you expect. Grab a mic to move it- it vanishes. A total waste of time. Snake Oil? Answer: Yes.
03:38 This setup is most certainly possible as I use this “kind/type” for clients that are no longer able to record live to update let’s say an old song. In other words I have a client that has old DATs with vocal tracks and to give them some real world upgraded texture I run it through a system such as this one. You’d be surprised how much life this gives old recordings instead of just over stacking plugins. Sometimes less is more. Old Prerecorded vocal 16bit@44k recorded to 32bit/48k (32b/96k) with some dynamics coming in makes things shine in a big way quick. Here in Houston TX we unfortunately have artists that either passed away or are incarcerated and this is how some of those clients continue to make tracks. Of course it is expensive as this process is very slow to calibrate the right sweet spot position(s) for the track(s).
I tried different browsers but the website doesn't work very well for me. The microphones disappear and the entire website doesn't react anymore after a few minutes
what i hate about these clone mic emulations is that, if i wanted to run the mic into a neve 1073 it will change the mic source characteristics and thus make it not useful
Just for the ''catalogue'' option of recordings with those mic I feel it is a valuable resource to at least potential help you choose a next microphone if you cant try it.
the 47 clones wont all sound the same since the vintage ones dont sound the same you are assuming every company modeled the exact same 47. and they all did similar things to the full mix. If you had 5 different vintage 47s in the same test i bet the results would be very similar
this principal should also be taken into account when you do snake oil videos on plugins as well. this idea is the thing that all of your snake oil videos fail to address
Discovered ATK just the other day when GAS was kicking in and I wanted to listen to a few mics in the £3-500 range. Really helpful tool for comparing the Aston Spirit sound blueprint with a bunch of others at a glance. I guess the transients are going to be most affected by this process especially if various instruments will translate differently through speakers vs recording directly? Would love to see more Sontronics and Soyuz mics in there!
Watch the videoes how they did it. They used laser measurements on placing the mics on exactly same position, on drums they used some robots who played the drums exactly the same every single time, etc. Everything is done in a scientific way, in an controlled environment bla bla bla. But what you hear on each mic is an exact recording of the exat source every single time. Because you asked yourself how was possible for them to do it. I personally know Alex Oana, the guy who did all this. I know they put tons of work in doing this the most precise way.
Hey BASSADY! That is so cool of you to say. We indeed poured everything we had into making a reliable, trustworthy resource for the audio community. We didn't want to let anybody down. :) -Alex
The premise of "We're gonna reamp some stuff and your mic will become a different mic at the end" seems like total BS. :P What are the virtual mics doing, apart from slapping an EQ band onto the track?
Yeah, that wouldn't be very helpful. We used a traditional re-amping for electric guitar and bass. But then there were robots, self-playing piano, and vocal surrogates. All the recordings you hear are the microphones recorded live in front of an acoustic source in 11 different acoustic environments. You can find out how we did it here: www.audiotestkitchen.com/blog. Thanks! - Alex
It's not meant as a service to reamp your stuff, it's a library to compare different mics if you don't have the chance to test a bunch before purchasing one.
Yes, that's right. Every microphone varies slightly due to manufacturing tolerances. It's typical that the more expensive the mic, the better the quality control, and the more closely it will match its own spec. Our audio samples accurately represent the character and tonal personality of the microphones. Thanks for the question! -Alex
Yes, genuine vintage u47s will all sound a bit different from each other depending on how the mic was stored and how it has aged (this is due to component degradation over time from dust, heat, humidity...) . New, genuine Neumann reissue u47s all sound nearly identical. IIRC Neumann doesn't even offer "matched stereo pairs" because their manufacturing tolerances are so tight, every mic sounds the same. Once those new mics float around in the real world for 40+ years, they will all sound different.
Yes, he's contributed so much to our community. To clarify, Warren and Produce Like A Pro are not financial sponsors of Audio Test Kitchen. We had a co-promotional agreement with Produce Like a Pro and Sound On Sound, that's why you see their logos. Thanks! -Alex
Hey Wytse! If someone says 'I like the U47', you have to ask 'which one'? I've been recording for 50 years,and there are no two 47s that sound alike.... so the virtual mic guys find the best one the can and model it. Townsend Labs and Slate both do a pretty good job at that, but they WILL sound different - they've modeled different microphones. I'm sure you know this.... love your channel! Tony Carey
@@TjMoon91 Absolutely, yes. So when comparing U47s clones (analog and digital) one can assess the degree to which the soul of the U47 is captured. Great point. -Alex
No two vintage microphones sound the same even ones from the same model and manufacturer. If a microphone is a recreation of a vintage microphone it will be subject to the same magical flavor (production inconsistencies) as the vintage model was. Tubes and sometimes transformers can vary greatly. Outside of the capsule, transformers and tubes are the next most impactful thing on the sound of a microphone. It is also mostly impossible to know if a modern recreation of a vintage mic sounds like the a true original because many of them have been repaired or updated. For example I don’t think there is single original M7 capsule in operation as the PVC would have long since dried out and broken down. Most mics in operation now (even vintage ones) have reskinned capsules or have a more modern K47 style capsule that use Mylar or some kind PET film. The PVC skins were not consistent on the old capsules so even back in the early 1900’s no two mics sounded the same.
Would be great to hear your opinion about the Logic Pro X built in EQ, to me it looks like they took the Fabfilter EQ and embed it as regular onboard channel EQ...?
I can't nor could ever get this service to work! On 5 different browsers it wouldn't work. And I've been trying since it came out! Was one of the testers and told them about it but it still don't work! And I've got 1gb internet speeds and a good computer blah blah blah.
Back in the day, some snake oil sellers would go around the whole country telling people about the benefits of snake oil, it could help with headaches, colds, cure cancer and make your dick grow 5 inches. Obviously that’s bullshit so nowadays snake oil refers to bullshit pushed to you with crazy marketing.
3:02 You could record a guitar performance running a cable from the speaker output of the amp directly to the board or interface. Then mic the monitors on playback.
Every original U47 sounds different cause it was released in 1947. For example. Your grandmother´s voice doesn´t sound like back in the days, doesn´t sound exactly like every other granny nor your mother nor your sister. Never the less all of them are beautiful in their own way. Greetings to you family
You should do a video on antares mic mod as it allows you to emulate over 100 microphones. I personally think it's amazing and others will probably feel the same about it.
Hahaha, yes. Those guys standing at the whiteboard are the Harman scientists we work with. That was just one step in two years of R&D required to get ATK right. You can read and watch more about it here: www.audiotestkitchen.com/behind-the-scenes. Thanks! - Alex
That “tiny bit of EQ” makes a huge difference in the right situations. Obviously most producers/studios don’t need a vintage U47 in their mic locker, but the real producers/engineers who do have one know to always do comparisons anyway and not just reach for the most expensive tool. Sometimes a cheaper audio technica mic beats the cool vintage one, every singer is different. But the fact all you think of it’s capability is “adding a tiny bit of EQ” says a lot...
Hey STAR0SS. I'd definitely recommend to continue listening to many more sources on your own on the ATK website (the differences might not come through the CZcams audio codec). At the end of the day, we wanted to give your a sense of what it would be like if you owned these microphones. That's where the 'Stacked Effect' and all the 46 sources in 11 different acoustic environments will collectively reveal the true personalities of these mics. Thanks! - Alex
@@BeastlyAnteater Maybe I'm wrong, but I bet those "real producers" wouldn't be able to tell mid-range from high-end apart in a blind test if you EQ and loudness match them. It's the same thing with cameras ; the colors look a bit different out of the camera, but you can almost always match them in post in a way that makes them indistinguishable. If the information has been recorded it doesn't really matter if it's presented in a slightly different way.
Yeah, it's so good. The band is People Under the Stairs and the song is "The L.A. Song." Here's the spotify link: open.spotify.com/track/6Gkdq550XBZoACE78rYD6g?si=bQvLPivSQlCudIBa-ndjkw
While what you are saying is valid as to the type of personal characteristic one prefers from a hardware unit, for the cold hard facts it is worth checking out Julian Krause if anyone has not come across his work. Yes he does use graphs but he is comparing apples with apples. He performs technical analysis of many items in the audio field and explains what the graphs are showing. It seems to me as a starting point for selecting a piece of mainly consumer equipment in the life of the channel to date, the results point to the best contenders or the "snake oil" avoid at all cost hardware. Talking of clones - Julian Krause - Behringer SL75 C vs Shure SM57 (Review and audio samples) czcams.com/video/tV1qO6dRuGE/video.html The end result may surprise some.
"Yes, I do have friends" LOOL
that's dope, really!! lmao
Love your videos. I’m pretty sure “surrogate” means the speaker playing the performance is a stand in (or surrogate) for the performer, so the performance is the same each time, and ideally only the mic and mic technique changes.
Exactly. The brand of the speaker is Adam Audio, probably the S3H model.
@@sommerklange Yes, you've got it. The ADAM S3H was by far the best-suited existing studio monitor for this application. The ATC SCM45A was a very close second that we also employed. Thanks for your comment! -Alex
Yes, you've got it, Jimmy. Thanks so much. -Alex
I think he was joking guys.
Whilst the fabled u47 may deserve being held in such high esteem, I think it's impossible to get its sound dead on. There are so many variables down to circuitry, and components. Some of the clones are remarkably different in comparison to it. However, that may work for someone better than an actual u47 in certain use cases as no two recordings are ever going to be identical (factoring in recording space, musicians, instruments/tuning, etc.). So while I don't appreciate the snake oil side of it, I can see that they have their place in someone's mic locker. As you said it's 100% best to test out an expensive microphone yourself and see how it works for you.
I'm heard other people say, "yes - I have friends!". And it's not been funny but when he said it for some reason. I laughed aloud.
Lol same here. But you can't have a personality like that and not have friends. He probably has to sort those who would be his friends.
I'm glad that sarcastic joke hit home for all of us
🤣😂🤣😂
You forgot to show the "blind test mode"... best feature - hides the mics and mixes them up!
Yes, totally! Glad you dig that feature. Thanks so much for your comment:) -Alex
There are some extra handy comparison features in Audio Test Kitchen which your viewers can also use, such as 1. Showing individual frequency response curve/ analyser as each mic selection automatically appears 2. Play a 'loop' section, rather than keep resetting the start time with your mouse like you did. Very helpful website indeed.
Ah, excellent points, Rocko. Thank you. -Alex
Sound On Sound found a really interesting way to compare gear a few years ago. They have used one of the modern Yamaha player grand pianos (essentially, a grand piano that responds to MIDI), miced it up, then used this setup to test different mic preamps. Their result - there's much less difference than we thought there was. :) I think a similar setup could be used to test mics in a setting more natural than recording a monitor, but I don't know if SOS has ever tried using that setup to compare mics.
Yes, it's a smart approach we also used. Yamaha loaned us a self-playing Disklavier acoustic piano which we recorded in close and far mic positions in EastWest Studio 2. Thanks for your comment! -Alex
Alex Oana at @AudioTestKitchen team did an amazing job with the testing and site. Where I live, I have no access to 1/3 of the microphones on the list. ATK helped me narrow down my selection to a Vanguard Audio Labs V13 that more than met my requirements and desires. Alex has done a number of podcasts and can easily be found talking about his background and process. I can't wait until they are able to expand on the mic selections and different components.
Thank you so much, Matthew! Great to see you here. -Alex
Hi Wyste. I posted a comment thanking you for your awesome video and clarifying a few details about ATK, but I can no longer find that comment. It's helpful information for everyone here. Do you have a policy against posts by the subject of your videos? Thanks -Alex (Founder of Audio Test Kitchen)
Wytse should have pinned that comment
4:13 Even if its not the same, if all of them were done the same way, you can at least compare to mics that you know which already seems pretty useful to me
5:58 If you purchase online in the Netherlands (or maybe even the EU) they are required by law to let you send it back within 14 days as long as you unpacked it neatly and there is no damage etc. So yes, this is very possible with for example Thomann.
Definitely a fun tool to play around with and to get a first impression. Thanks for the video!
Thanks Valerie! If you like your experience on ATK, please spread the word:) -Alex
I love the slate mics. I use them almost exclusively. I have 14 ml2's and 2 ml1's. Sold a lot of my cool mics because I didn't need them anymore.
That speaker is an Adam Audio, they have ribbon tweeters. Although many aren't a fan of their high frequency sound. That one looks like an S3H but their A7x and A5X are more widely used.
I like Audio Test Kitchen. It makes comparing microphones extremely easy and intuitive.
Thanks so much! Music to our ears:) What would you like ATK to compare next? -Alex
@@AudioTestKitchen please compare AKG THE TUBE, Neumann u67
@@AudioTestKitchen It will be awesome if you can add AKG D 2000 to your list of microphones.
@@abrahamortiz9812 our first library includes only LDC microphones new for sale. We asked AKG to provide a C12 VR, but one was not available. And we did capture the Neumann U67 reissue on some sources, but the microphone wasn't released in time to have complete content. I recommend joining the newsletter so you can learn when we release new content and gear. thanks! -Alex
@@AudioTestKitchen Thank you, Audio Test Kitchen. His project and his attention are great. I'm excited to see more microphones.
I'm currently using an Antelope Audio Edge Solo microphone on my vocals for a solo project I'm working on during the down time. The microphone sounds very good without models when I'm tracking and it cuts the track well. I don't really notice the difference between models with my voice soloed but I do notice large differences between models when mixing down. I've noticed that the mic model will make a difference in how my vocal sits in the mix.
Nice, you put my favourite and main mic on your list (the c414). One mustn't forget the effort these people put on that page. You're right I would like to hear some vintage mics as well, but then again, people can't buy them and the more vintage they are, the more they start to be different copy by copy.
Hey Peter, your point about vintage mics is exactly right. And thank you so much for your supportive comment. Stay in touch! -Alex
Finally! :D I think its a really good idea, mostly to convince yourself that the price isn't everything when choosing the proper mic!
Yes, and the cool thing is that each of us can make our own conclusion based on what's important to us. Now that there's a trustworthy information database, we don't have to rely on the hype, and marketing, and what other people say. Thanks for your comment! -Alex
Audio test kitchen taught me that the Telefunken U47 has a magic that the clones don’t. But I couldn’t afford it, so I hired Monheim Microphones to clone it. Don’t know if it’s exactly the same, but it sounds delicious.
I question their method, due to the results. I lined up several contrasting mics, including the SM7B and the AT4033a. I compared the solo male vocals; I tried looping some of the most sibilant phrases and comparing; I tried looping some of the high-range singing; I tried looping some of the low-range singing. The fact that they were so close in sound makes me sceptical of their method. I own those mics and I would not be able to get them to sound so similar without using EQ!
While a lot of LDCs sound very similar, I know for a fact that the SM7B and the JZ Black Hole (for example) do not sound that close on a male vocalist. The fact that bright condensers sound similar to dark dynamics on their tests makes me curious about the methodology, as I would not be able to replicate their audio results with those mics without trying quite hard!
I had the slate microphone modeling system and was TOTALLY unimpressed! I've been moving away from plug ins in general and more towards analog. Just bought a GA ribbon mic for less than $200 and it's by far the best mic I've ever used!
If you have the best mic that will outperform all other mics you can in theory use a plug-in like this, so it is a snake oil story. But again, you can only add distorsion. The question is if they do that in the right way or do they only add a EQ curve ? Adding distorsion is difficult i think, there is a lot going on in tubes, wires, diodes, transformers that cant be emulated, i dont think this emulation is doing so.
I love getting the you tube link in patron because then i can see it on you tube and smash that like button. Could this be done with impulse responses? Also re: testing mics with recording a guitarist with different mics -- record the guitar track as a DI, then *play it back* through a guitar amp and rotate the microphones through? That way you get the same performance with only the cabinet and mic different.
You brought this video out a day after I bought a Warm Audio clone of the Neumann U67. 😮
Yes, only valuable for relative comparison of the similarities and differences between mics. Especially if you can start with a mic you already know well.
What you are looking at is a mixture of cloned mics and virtual mics, I have that Antelope Solo's and they are actually 12 mics, you can select the model before or after you record and the mic is good for recording without any software too. The Flea is a hardware mic made to emulate one microphone, likely the U47. Why are they mixing them together?
BTW the only way I could really hear a difference was when I was listening through my iLoud MTM monitors. You NEED to get them!!
Yeah! IK Multimedia is difficult to contact 😅... maybe I just buy a set, review it, and then sell it again? 🤔
@@Whiteseastudio Buy them.... you will end up keeping them. I love love love them!
You make a great point about the importance of good monitoring. In our experience, when there are differences to be heard, they can be heard on any monitoring reference the listener is familiar with. An interesting result of removing all variables except the mics themselves is that sometimes the differences between mics are quite small. Thanks for your comment! -Alex
@@AudioTestKitchen Alex, I completely agree. Here in my space, between my ADAM A7x's and the little iLoud MTM's, I could hear the difference the greatest with the MTM's. They're surprisingly good little monitors. Hope all is well with you guys!
I went to Vintage King in Hollywood,Ca. after NAMM SHOW 2020 to buy my Condenser. This is where Eric ( AudioTEST KITCHEN ) worked. I tried all 47's up against the Telefunken 47 FLEA, WUNDER.... all responded different as we Recorded my Vocals (dry )then COMPARED. they all had different. Frequency Responses but were close. ( big difference in Price ) AT one I did a Shoo-Out with 4 -47's in Vocal Booth singing 1 time. for best comparison.
Hi George. You make a good point. You were able to have an in-person experience with the microphones in a great showroom. For 99.9% of the world, they won't be able to do that. I'm confident that when people listen to a number of the available 46 sources on Audio Test Kitchen from the comfort of their own home, they'll be able to discern the differences needed to make a very informed and confident microphone choice. Thanks! -Alex
Which 47 did you ultimately buy?
@@AudioTestKitchen Yes Eric, hen I Saw you with Warren Huartt there years back on CZcams made me start buying Gear there plus hear the difference between all 26 Condenser MICs. What you did with Audio Test Kitchen what very helpful too to me to make my decision for a Vocal Mic for me :) George Amodei. Thank again
@@AudioTestKitchen Bought FLEA, WUNDER & Telefunken U 47's Brought Home to Vocal Booth all set up fora DRY Audio File ( saw the Frequency Response on Audio Spectrum.... Plus took my Room in concentration ( Wore Head Phones also).
I went with Wunder CM7 GS with M7 Capsule., didn't compare the K47 Capsole. FLEA was very good too. Telefunken was the BEST but for approx. $4K MORE I can be Happy and tweak w/ EQ :) Hope you staying SAFE & HEALTHY Thx Again, George Amodei
@@AudioTestKitchen Wunder CM7 GS M7 Cap. not K7 Cap. Flea was very good also but BEST was Telefunken but for the difference of approx. $4K I can be happy w/ what II Bought. Hope your staying SAFE & HEALTHY!!! Thx Again for your Hard Work :) George Amodei
I will probably never know what the actual mics sound like, but the Townsend Sphere has been a good investment.
You know, a great tool is a great tool. Glad you discovered one that works so well for you. -Alex
Very interesting.
RIP, wild timing if this version of Sandstorm was just a coincidence! And if it was on purpose, good on you Wytse.
Well, I'm not sure that this isn't snake oil.
I own several of the mics the website provides, and honestly they sound nothing like the "samples" that they have on the website. For one thing, the SM57 sample they provide sounds quite scooped... no 57 I have ever used sounds scooped. I've used SM57s since the late 1970s in dozens of different studios and live events and it doesn't sound like an SM57 to me. The Soyuz Bomblet in there is dull and flat on the top end, while the one I own has loads of top end sparkle. I actually have the frequency curve print out of my Bomblet and compared it to the one on the website and its very different (and the audio samples don't even sound like what that curve should sound like)--not at all what I would expect from a high-end hand made mic... very weird.
I found this again with several other mics, such as the AKG 414XLS (I have 4 in my studio) which I am also very familiar with... they just don't sound like I would expect. Also many of these mics have different polar patterns, pads and shelves that could change the sound dramatically, but there is no indication if any of those were used.
Since there is no such thing as a perfectly flat, colorless microphone, speaker or room, I understand why they would try to eliminate those variables. But the fact that they record this with essentially a calibration mic and play it back through an Adam studio monitor (interestingly, I also own two sets of Adams and know them very well) in an anechoic chamber (which 99% of people have never experienced) just means that the entire concept is flawed. No one ever records or listens that way and recording mics weren't designed to be used that way. Comparing things in an environment you will never use is like smelling flowers in space. Pointless.
I think that this site is going to be very misleading for a lot of people. The collected knowledge of professional engineers and producers who know how these mics perform in typical recording environments on various instruments has worked pretty damn well for many decades. I'm sticking with that.
You know these mics being used in real environments, this is all tested in an anechoic chamber so it makes sense that it sounds nothing like a real room.
In addition they use some impulse response filter to 'remove' the speaker and other influences. (I really doubt if this is really possible tho... it's still a recording of the speaker you are hearing)
To me this seems more like a tool to compare mics, you don't really get a sense of how they actually sound when being used in a real recording.
Well put! My AKG 414XLS stereo pair is very different sounding depending on the polar pattern. The polar pattern of any mic affects the recorded sound A LOT in any actual space that isn't an anechoic chamber, even more so if there are multiple instruments being recorded at the same time in the same space. Basically, if you intend to record audio that isn't supposed to be totally dry, I don't see the point of comparing mics in this particular way...
Hi Wes. Thanks for sharing your concerns. I can see why you would make these comments without having a complete understanding of our process. You can learn how we eliminated variables, captured 46 real sources and recorded all the microphones in 11 different acoustic environments in 4 studios on our blog www.audiotestkitchen.com/behind-the-scenes and our CZcams channel. Please let me know if you have any questions. I also left a general comment under Wyste's excellent video. All the best, -Alex
3:29 why do you have to play yourself? You can play s recording. 😅 How do you think convolution reverbs are done 😅
Nice video, tried this web long ago and find it useful, I compare my mics using a guitar looper pedal, strumming at different levels in a riff, for example with the neck pick up of a less paul that have lots of lows and then change to bridge to get also higher highs, then I can record all my mics in different positions, angles and combinations with exactly the same take every time, I measure the distances and take notes in protools etc.. so I can recall the sound I need.. very easy, right now my go to for guitar is an SM58 (without the shell cover) or a vintage Sony F230A very close facing the edge of the cone but perpendicular to the side for the higher mids, and a R102 Ribbon for the low-mids further away facing straight to the center, having to deal later with phase issues of course.. but the blend of those two is amazing, unfortunately that Sony isn't there, is too old, and cheap! :D stay up!
Very cool process! Thanks for sharing. - Alex
For me the ultimate snakeoil is vst instruments promising all sorts of sheeet and when you start using it and hold a chord theres just prerecorded lines on a key. Or when you put on a plugin that is gonna give the sound some awesomeness you notice theres just a recorded effect meshing and crushing your beautiful track
DareTheDragon I don’t know what kind of plugins you’re buying, and I have no clue what the hell kind of effect or “audio fix” you’re talking about.
Can you be specific? What plugins do that? And what are they supposed to be doing?
@@russellszabadosaka5-pindin849 dude. It was just an example. I never buy snakeoil. I research different option sometimes for months before i spend money. Have a pleasant day
DareTheDragon sorry man, I didn’t mean to come off like an asshole. I just couldn’t figure out what kind plugin you were talking about. It’s no big deal. Anyway sorry about the way I came off.
Was on the website, didn't hear any difference when switching. Only heard dry vocals.
How you get the guitar to soundthe same every time is you direct input to your audio interface and use the same recording, then put the microphones in the same location, the same distance from the speakers and you use a SPL meter and there you have it.
That's it exactly, 3n1. Thanks for your comment. -Alex
This is an interesting site. I will check it out before I purchase another mic.
What do people think about Slate's VMS One?
I'd guess they leave out vintage microphones since they are all different from one to another one after decades of aging, and also as a result of whomever serviced them over the years. It is a fun site.
Bob, that's exactly right. Thanks for making this important point. -Alex
Have you seen or tried te flea stuff??? Mainly the 47 version
Flea are great. We have known Flea a long time and they wanted to participate in Audio Test Kitchen at a much deeper level with more microphones. Unfortunately the timing was really bad for them and they weren't able to send us any production examples. ATK had to independently source the two Flea mics you hear on our site. We're confident Flea will be fully represented in the future. Thanks! -Alex
U tought me about mix analog and now audio testkitchen. I was just wasting away some hours there😂 . Love all the nerdy audiostuff keep on going
Oh, watched it now... not what I thought... the beauty of click bait lol
Interesting way to find new things to look at closer.
I love your thomann mic collection, it's pretty similar to mine... big fan of the u47 FET
Glad 'clickbait' got you to discover ATK. What do you think? -Alex
For modern / top40 music you can just use a built in mic in your phone
Many microphones 'can' work in many situations. You can get creative with whatever you've got. I've recorded CZcams voiceovers using just my iPhone and some processing. Whatever works! But, I have to say, an amazing microphone can make it so much easier to sound amazing. Thanks for your comment! -Alex
I too, love that they tried to write on a whiteboard! I actually think they might have succeeded (based on the evidence)!! Very funny off-the-cuff comment. :)
Haha. Fake it until you make it, they say. Those guys standing at the whiteboard are the Harman scientists we work with. Day #1, conversation #1 started at the whiteboard. That was just the first baby step in several months of R&D to get it right. You can read and watch more about it here: www.audiotestkitchen.com/behind-the-scenes. Thanks! - Alex
Woahh!! People Under The Stairs tune right off the top! RIP Double K
Yes. RIP. Double K made a big contribution to help people learn about microphones by lending his big voice to ATK. Glad you noticed. Thanks -Alex
I find mostly, the sound is almost the same, but they don't ever replicate the feel... it's the feel that is more real than you... a sound that inspires greater part of yourself... if they designed a clone based on our own chemistry, that might become better than the originals and even make the next gen of analogue equipment that will become the next classics.
Can't watch now, not got time, but this is a very thought about subject for me so I'm interested to hear your thoughts.
Love the channel, always, keep pushing through to greater depths we always find
Cool concept. Can you say more? -Alex
@@AudioTestKitchen yes, later when I return home.
A quick thing... could this not broaden in to all analogue equipment in some time?
Plus also the fact it greatly narrows down the batting field for product decision.
You might already have this, I haven't had a chance to look properly yet but search filters like price range would help also.
@@TheSakuraGumiLTD yes to both questions :)
@@AudioTestKitchen It very hard to have a universal method that is perfect for this, but this doesn't really matter too much when you consider it to be a a tool for narrowing down the selection to then research and small amount of microphones.
Often with microphones or gear you often get sold on the idea of a sound and not the sound.
Whenever you get something high end if you're not used to it you'll always be pleased with what you get, but you could have fine tuned that sound a little, a impossible task when you can't compare side by side the products.
The amount of difference sometimes is minimal and that difference preference can change with too much of a gap.
I've learned myself that I should not only listen to a sound but check how it makes me feel, that is what I have learned in this journey myself.
A good feature to have is a blind test option once a set of microphones are found and 1 to 5 scale of rating as they play through multiple times each and then tally it up at the end, this would also be great information for the companies of microphones to want to buy.
I would be really nice to see a small amount of preamp selection, which might be easier through the line level signal.
Just to get a idea of how the microphones sound through different types of preamp.
Have a two levels prices, mid and high, then different types, like Tube, Transformer, solid state etc...
I'm looking myself the have two Rupert Neve 517's and two AMS Neve 1073LB's, it would be nice to get a idea at least with the 1073 or something close what the microphones might sound like through Neve transformers.
But if I was to think that there are cheap alternatives and it would be good to hear those also.
Lindell Audio do a great 500 series Vintage line, Golden age project and etc etc.
The issue I know with this will be you will need to make, if you have 6 preamps, make 6 times more recordings.
So would be something that would be nice in the future when it is finically viable.
You intend on doing other equipment at some point so I'm sure something like this is already in the works as my ideas are quite basic.
Although, they are important.
As someone not so fortunate in finical success I spend most of my time researching, thing like this will see me better buys when each time comes.
I've now seen the site properly and can say it is very well thought out, not go in to it properly, not had time recently.
I would say there's not much to complain about, only a wealth of ideas of what else there could be.
I really hope you have good patterns for this idea, as the first, you deserve to be the main provider for this.
I'm already a big fan of the online analogue services, where I can process a few key things and get that last little bit I need.
For, really, you must have everything correct before then to really utilise them.
But Microphones, you need those here, so this is a good format to start from.
I'm sure in time you'll find more innovative ways to do this and then even converters could be tested as well as maybe there being a digital booking in process to allow people to control it how they want.
You'd need a bit of a factory to do that and that is me being over ambitious with ideas as like to, I like to because why not?... If I can't make a idea happen someone else might be able to... it only the formalities of a capitalist system that makes it necessary to protect ideas, I personally live how I would live in my most favoured system structure, one with out hierarchies that is simple about us working together for each other with a massive emphasis on individual creativity...
Dream Dream...
I will say more once I've had a good look at the site and do the process to find what I want in different price ranges.
Currently my choices before using this are Neumann TLM 107, Neumann KN183, Coles 4038 and a EV RE27N/D... Or... Just get one Neumann U47 FET.
My choices might not change but my confidence might increase or decrease to keep searching... either way or any it will be a positive experience
Certainty is the greatest pursuit
Its not impossible. Just use a looper and record something. Then you can play it back out of the amp and record with whatever microphone afterwards. Or in a studio you can use reamp techniques. Does that make sense?
I’m gonna use my looper and experiment with real-time adjust knobs on the amp while recording the amp. Like and fully analog automation like with a synth
And ofc tweak the guitar boxes with looper playing
I LOVE emulation microphones. They will NEVER replace the hardware they are trying to but as far as solid quality Mics with Great sound.. Paying $500 for Slate system and getting 12 mics is pretty dope. We have bought 2 Slate ML1 and 5 Slate ML2. Fantastic for drum micing
the problem is that all microphones (within on line, so if you buy 100 Rode nt1 mics they will all be slightly different) differ from each other ... even measurement microphones. There are studies on that and everybody knows that ... the problem now is that there is a fixed filtercurve in these modeling programs so the results will fit better or worse ... i love the technology and already had the slate ml1, ml2 and the antelope edge duo but idk ... the manufacturer needs to make a source calibration file for every mic and then let the software match to target curves instead of just applying a fixed IR to match the sound of other mics... and even cheap measurement mics come with individual calibration files so price wise this should be possible ... i think once they do that there is not much left to do ... i also think another problem is the price, townsend audio does this right ... slate, suffers from their low price, The ml2 breaks easily, and the decoupling is bad but the software is amazing, antelope offer better source mics but the simulation is less accurate ... townsend is the best of both imo
Excellent observations. Yes, you're right - every microphone varies slightly due to manufacturing tolerances. It's typical that the more expensive the mic, the better the quality control, and the more closely it will match its own spec. Our audio samples accurately represent the character and tonal personality of the microphones. Thanks for the comment and sharing your experiences with modeling mics. Is this what you hear on ATK? -Alex
@@AudioTestKitchen Oh thanks a lot for the answer! What an honor! I love Audio testkitchen! :) My last purchases were all made with checking the mics on audio test kitchen first! ... What do you mean by "Is this what you hear on ATK?" (My english is not that good sorry)
@ Your English is great and you answered the question perfectly! This is so wonderful to hear - music to our ears. Thanks so much and stay in touch :) Alex
Jajajajaja “ Yes I Do Have friends “ nice man. Thanks for the video.
I´ll try the Townsend Lab in the next days. Thank u for this one.
The polarity options of the l22 are the most amazing part of it. It's something you can't achieve with "a little bit of eq" and I feel like I really learn something by using them.
Please let us know how it goes! I’m planning to get that one
Great video as always! Thank you!
I wouldn't necessarily call snake oil. They need to adjust their claims a little maybe, but if you're on the market for a budget tube mic, some of these fill the need!
Couldn't get the site to work properly- can't hear any difference between mics at all. Plus it's buggy, doesn't do what you expect. Grab a mic to move it- it vanishes. A total waste of time. Snake Oil? Answer: Yes.
03:38 This setup is most certainly possible as I use this “kind/type” for clients that are no longer able to record live to update let’s say an old song. In other words I have a client that has old DATs with vocal tracks and to give them some real world upgraded texture I run it through a system such as this one. You’d be surprised how much life this gives old recordings instead of just over stacking plugins. Sometimes less is more. Old Prerecorded vocal 16bit@44k recorded to 32bit/48k (32b/96k) with some dynamics coming in makes things shine in a big way quick. Here in Houston TX we unfortunately have artists that either passed away or are incarcerated and this is how some of those clients continue to make tracks. Of course it is expensive as this process is very slow to calibrate the right sweet spot position(s) for the track(s).
People Under the Stairs test audio. RIP Double K on the vocals
Here's a video going into more detail on how they recorded everything for Audio Test Kitchen. czcams.com/video/QbpoOhXslGQ/video.html
Perfect, was gonna comment this link. They explain how they do everything and it's definitely trustful.
Michael, thanks so much for providing this link. Great to have your support:) Be well, -Alex
@@johnnyboygomez7 thank you so much. It's great to feel the support of you guys. Please stay in touch:) -Alex
The 47s: Did they test a pair of mike with a pair of surrogate speakers? Because what I hear is in stereo.
Is it the case for other mikes?
Watch the video on how they record it.
@@ramspencer5492, thanks man! -Alex
I tried different browsers but the website doesn't work very well for me. The microphones disappear and the entire website doesn't react anymore after a few minutes
what i hate about these clone mic emulations is that, if i wanted to run the mic into a neve 1073 it will change the mic source characteristics and thus make it not useful
Just for the ''catalogue'' option of recordings with those mic I feel it is a valuable resource to at least potential help you choose a next microphone if you cant try it.
The monitor you have never heard of looks like an Adam, hard to tell with a small picture but the ribbon tweeter would be a dead giveaway.
the 47 clones wont all sound the same since the vintage ones dont sound the same you are assuming every company modeled the exact same 47. and they all did similar things to the full mix. If you had 5 different vintage 47s in the same test i bet the results would be very similar
this principal should also be taken into account when you do snake oil videos on plugins as well. this idea is the thing that all of your snake oil videos fail to address
Discovered ATK just the other day when GAS was kicking in and I wanted to listen to a few mics in the £3-500 range. Really helpful tool for comparing the Aston Spirit sound blueprint with a bunch of others at a glance. I guess the transients are going to be most affected by this process especially if various instruments will translate differently through speakers vs recording directly? Would love to see more Sontronics and Soyuz mics in there!
+1 for more microphone-talk 🙌
Right on! We'd be happy to help. -Alex
Can you make video of slate digital clone microphone and Track5 microphone?
Watch the videoes how they did it. They used laser measurements on placing the mics on exactly same position, on drums they used some robots who played the drums exactly the same every single time, etc. Everything is done in a scientific way, in an controlled environment bla bla bla. But what you hear on each mic is an exact recording of the exat source every single time. Because you asked yourself how was possible for them to do it. I personally know Alex Oana, the guy who did all this. I know they put tons of work in doing this the most precise way.
Hey BASSADY! That is so cool of you to say. We indeed poured everything we had into making a reliable, trustworthy resource for the audio community. We didn't want to let anybody down. :) -Alex
There are some good videos on exactly how they did it. Looks legit
Thanks, Simba:) Yeah, folks can check out the Audio Test Kitchen CZcams channel or our blog. -Alex
The premise of "We're gonna reamp some stuff and your mic will become a different mic at the end" seems like total BS. :P
What are the virtual mics doing, apart from slapping an EQ band onto the track?
Yeah, that wouldn't be very helpful. We used a traditional re-amping for electric guitar and bass. But then there were robots, self-playing piano, and vocal surrogates. All the recordings you hear are the microphones recorded live in front of an acoustic source in 11 different acoustic environments. You can find out how we did it here: www.audiotestkitchen.com/blog. Thanks! - Alex
It's not meant as a service to reamp your stuff, it's a library to compare different mics if you don't have the chance to test a bunch before purchasing one.
But aren’t all ua7s different from each other out in the wild?
Yes, that's right. Every microphone varies slightly due to manufacturing tolerances. It's typical that the more expensive the mic, the better the quality control, and the more closely it will match its own spec. Our audio samples accurately represent the character and tonal personality of the microphones. Thanks for the question! -Alex
Yes, genuine vintage u47s will all sound a bit different from each other depending on how the mic was stored and how it has aged (this is due to component degradation over time from dust, heat, humidity...) . New, genuine Neumann reissue u47s all sound nearly identical. IIRC Neumann doesn't even offer "matched stereo pairs" because their manufacturing tolerances are so tight, every mic sounds the same. Once those new mics float around in the real world for 40+ years, they will all sound different.
Wait why does it always say “Snake Oil”.. I just subbed but I’m clueless to the Snake Oil thing. 🤔
Google it my friend and you will understand his whole premise.
Love your videos! 👌
Sir Warren Huart is a hero! Good tut, bro!
Yes, he's contributed so much to our community. To clarify, Warren and Produce Like A Pro are not financial sponsors of Audio Test Kitchen. We had a co-promotional agreement with Produce Like a Pro and Sound On Sound, that's why you see their logos. Thanks! -Alex
Well, if they write on a white board, then no question, it has to be legit!
Totally, lol!
The whole beginning of the video I was also thinking "How did they record all of the mics with the same vocal take?!" hahaha
Yes, great question. Check out our blog to see how we did it www.audiotestkitchen.com/blog. Thanks! -Alex
I decide before u got to the question - they play thru ns-10 and rec with each mic. All relative
Checked out Townsend Labs Sphere L22, tho?
Hey Wytse! If someone says 'I like the U47', you have to ask 'which one'? I've been recording for 50 years,and there are no two 47s that sound alike.... so the virtual mic guys find the best one the can and model it. Townsend Labs and Slate both do a pretty good job at that, but they WILL sound different - they've modeled different microphones. I'm sure you know this.... love your channel! Tony Carey
Even if there are variances, the U47 still has ‘a sound’ right?
I’ve never used any so this isn’t me telling you. Just a question.
Very well put, Tony. Thanks! - Alex
@@TjMoon91 Absolutely, yes. So when comparing U47s clones (analog and digital) one can assess the degree to which the soul of the U47 is captured. Great point. -Alex
The truth is, is that even if you compare different original 47's they will likely all have different characters between them.
That is true. They were all hand made with a fairly wide tolerance range.
No two vintage microphones sound the same even ones from the same model and manufacturer. If a microphone is a recreation of a vintage microphone it will be subject to the same magical flavor (production inconsistencies) as the vintage model was. Tubes and sometimes transformers can vary greatly. Outside of the capsule, transformers and tubes are the next most impactful thing on the sound of a microphone. It is also mostly impossible to know if a modern recreation of a vintage mic sounds like the a true original because many of them have been repaired or updated. For example I don’t think there is single original M7 capsule in operation as the PVC would have long since dried out and broken down. Most mics in operation now (even vintage ones) have reskinned capsules or have a more modern K47 style capsule that use Mylar or some kind PET film. The PVC skins were not consistent on the old capsules so even back in the early 1900’s no two mics sounded the same.
Would be great to hear your opinion about the Logic Pro X built in EQ, to me it looks like they took the Fabfilter EQ and embed it as regular onboard channel EQ...?
Snake oil gets a bad rep but have you tried cooking with it? Exactly!!
Hey Wytse, as I recall there are also no 2 U47's that sound the same.. 😉
That web site is SO GLITCHY - it's bordering on being useless.
You could test it with a di guitar track reamped into an amp for consistency:)
Good call. Exactly how we did it;) Read all about it on our blog. www.audiotestkitchen.com/blog. Cheers! -Alex
I can't nor could ever get this service to work! On 5 different browsers it wouldn't work. And I've been trying since it came out! Was one of the testers and told them about it but it still don't work! And I've got 1gb internet speeds and a good computer blah blah blah.
What is snake oil?
Edit: Sorry, im beginner
Back in the day, some snake oil sellers would go around the whole country telling people about the benefits of snake oil, it could help with headaches, colds, cure cancer and make your dick grow 5 inches. Obviously that’s bullshit so nowadays snake oil refers to bullshit pushed to you with crazy marketing.
"...and, well, write on a whiteboard" lmao
3:02 You could record a guitar performance running a cable from the speaker output of the amp directly to the board or interface. Then mic the monitors on playback.
Every original U47 sounds different cause it was released in 1947.
For example. Your grandmother´s voice doesn´t sound like back in the days, doesn´t sound exactly like every other granny nor your mother nor your sister. Never the less all of them are beautiful in their own way.
Greetings to you family
You should do a video on antares mic mod as it allows you to emulate over 100 microphones. I personally think it's amazing and others will probably feel the same about it.
Are analog summing mixers hardware snake oil?
Good one!
there are some audio clips of a few summing mixers on the zen pro audio clipalator
Can you make a video about the focusrite fast plugins?
the white board is key.
Hahaha, yes. Those guys standing at the whiteboard are the Harman scientists we work with. That was just one step in two years of R&D required to get ATK right. You can read and watch more about it here: www.audiotestkitchen.com/behind-the-scenes. Thanks! - Alex
To me the conclusion is that you don't need an expensive microphone, mid range is more than fine, you're paying a lot for a tiny bit of EQ.
That “tiny bit of EQ” makes a huge difference in the right situations. Obviously most producers/studios don’t need a vintage U47 in their mic locker, but the real producers/engineers who do have one know to always do comparisons anyway and not just reach for the most expensive tool. Sometimes a cheaper audio technica mic beats the cool vintage one, every singer is different. But the fact all you think of it’s capability is “adding a tiny bit of EQ” says a lot...
@@TheGARCK yes, that’s why I was saying the OP’s comment was reductive
Hey STAR0SS. I'd definitely recommend to continue listening to many more sources on your own on the ATK website (the differences might not come through the CZcams audio codec). At the end of the day, we wanted to give your a sense of what it would be like if you owned these microphones. That's where the 'Stacked Effect' and all the 46 sources in 11 different acoustic environments will collectively reveal the true personalities of these mics. Thanks! - Alex
@@BeastlyAnteater Maybe I'm wrong, but I bet those "real producers" wouldn't be able to tell mid-range from high-end apart in a blind test if you EQ and loudness match them. It's the same thing with cameras ; the colors look a bit different out of the camera, but you can almost always match them in post in a way that makes them indistinguishable. If the information has been recorded it doesn't really matter if it's presented in a slightly different way.
@@STAR0SS your bet is completely wrong lol, and once again your camera example betrays your ignorance on both fronts
What is that snake oil ?
where can i get that song?
Yeah, it's so good. The band is People Under the Stairs and the song is "The L.A. Song." Here's the spotify link: open.spotify.com/track/6Gkdq550XBZoACE78rYD6g?si=bQvLPivSQlCudIBa-ndjkw
While what you are saying is valid as to the type of personal characteristic one prefers from a hardware unit, for the cold hard facts it is worth checking out Julian Krause if anyone has not come across his work. Yes he does use graphs but he is comparing apples with apples. He performs technical analysis of many items in the audio field and explains what the graphs are showing. It seems to me as a starting point for selecting a piece of mainly consumer equipment in the life of the channel to date, the results point to the best contenders or the "snake oil" avoid at all cost hardware. Talking of clones - Julian Krause - Behringer SL75 C vs Shure SM57 (Review and audio samples) czcams.com/video/tV1qO6dRuGE/video.html The end result may surprise some.
11:51 amazing
Pretty sure we uploaded at the same exact time today! GREAT video as always!
I hope we didn’t do the same subject 😳
@@Whiteseastudio I guess you'll have to watch to find out.....
Just watched! Great idea!
@@Whiteseastudio Thanks man! I appreciate it!