Hi all - thank you for these great comments! Tim is very busy putting the finishing touches on our new museum. He hopes to eventually answer your questions on this thread. We are excited to see all of you at our brand new history center that will open in April 2023! We are so grateful for your engagement with ACHS and this page!
Amused when you joked about starting a restaurant named the shoe factory. Alton IL once had restaurant that specialized in selling “Horseshoe” sandwiches. Which was a dish created in Lincoln’s home town of Springfield, IL. The sandwich is two pieces of toast with ham - the shoes - topped with French Fries - the nails - covered with a cheese sauce.
You're great Tim. Always love listening to you about anything regarding Gettysburg. Extremely well informed, well read, well researched. You are also very entertaining.
Tim has a likeable quality that the other presenters do not have..I do respect the others on this channel and I know how much time they put into their videos..achs is such an amazing resource to future generations... remember the work they perform...Ty
Thankyou so much Tim, especially in clarifying Buford's role on July 1st. There are still far too many people who firmly believe that Buford was at Gettysburg on his own initiative and that he was solely responsible for choosing the battlefield for the entire AoP, apparently due to his recognizing the value of the "high ground". I refer to appeals to "high ground" as a Sickleism.
2 small peeves. Decades ago there seemed to be a perception that on Day1 the first Brigade of the !st Corps to arrive to the relief of Buford on McPherson's ridge was ? Often portrayed as the Iron Brigade ... It was not, it was Simon Cutlers Brigade. "about 10 a.m. The Second Brigade, Brigadier-General Cutler, led the column, followed by the Second Maine Battery, Captain Hall, the First Brigade, Brigadier-General Meredith, bringing up the rear. " not a biggie, but it s what it is.... They all get into the fight pretty quick..... #2 was just that Baxter and Paul on the Right of 1st Corps don't get a lot of attention or credit. An underlooked part of the brawl
One of my 1st day pet peeves is the narrative that the XI Corps tucked and ran. Barlow and Ames placed them in an untenable position then, in true governmental CYA fashion, denigrated the men of the corps in letters, and reports. Their word was, and seemingly continues to be taken as Gospel. Love the content!
I have been to Gettysburg two times and was awestruct by the size and the complexity of what happened there. After seeing this and one other of your excellent videos I realized these battles were a roadmap, to the Battle of the Bulge. Bastogne and Gettysburg have many similarities. It's spooky.
Go to Hanover, there are a lot of Farms with yellow barns that represent a company that makes shoes today. In June there was action in Hanover, Rebs looking for Nike,Addias et al .lol
Not only was it not an "accident", Lee noted when he had the maps prepared for his campaign that the road network came together at Gettysburg and projected that a battle of some sort must be fought there during the course of the campaign he was planning. ("citation needed") It would be closer to accurate to refer to the location as having been chosen by General Lee before he began his invasion.
Tim, you manage to pack more information into a 15-minute video than I usually find in two-hour documentaries. Each of your ACHS videos is filled with interesting content that I had no knowledge of despite having been a GB Buff for 30 years. From still observable battle damage to battle babies, you have expanded my knowledge base significantly. I appreciate and often re-watch many of the great videos you and Garry have published over the years, but I have to say, you do a fine job in these stand-alone presentations from the ACHS. Now, regarding "pet peeves". At the beginning of this video, I thought you were going to bring up the horse's hooves myth that is often still passed on as fact. I've given up arguing about that one, so I just point out that the Longstreet statue doesn't fit in. After watching this video, I couldn't help but wonder what Eric Wittenberg thinks of your peeve. ;-) Quickly, my #1 pet peeve occurs nearly every time I post a photo of a fallen soldier on the battlefield, I get comments claiming that these ghoulish photographers were constantly moving corpses around to produce more dramatic images. Every time I see a comment like that, I feel obligated to defend the honor of the photogs by pointing out that the only documented case of that occurring was the Gardner image of the sharpshooter's nest. Often, when I ask for a source for their claim, I usually get something like, "I read it somewhere" probably from another erroneous FB comment. Like you, I've got more pet peeves, but this comment is probably too long already. Once I start talking Gettysburg, it's hard to stop. Keep up the great work, Tim, I look forward to your videos every day. Greg Ainsworth
As Reynolds arrived at Gettysburg, he paused near the Codori Barn on the Emmittsburg Pike. As soldiers removed some fencing down, he observed Cemetery Ridge and mentioned to a staff member that that was the position to hold. Reynolds wanted to spare the Town from being shelled and he did delay the CS advance as he had ordered Sickles and Howard to consolidate with him.
Tim I agree with you 100% about the things you bring us in your videos. The one thing that used to bother me most when I was hanging (every week!) around there (1960's & 70's argg) was the relatively little you could learn about the people who lived in the town and surrounding farms. You have really brought the town to life in a way with your honest details and accurate presentations of what was there, and what is fact and what isn't. To "peeve" in the dictionary is to annoy and for me it begins and ends with the ghost hunting tourist traps. Lincoln said ..."from these honored dead.." and we hope they all rest in peace regardless of their 'elevation and windage'. To me ghost tours distract from understanding the real tragedy and suffering of a battle like this.
Thanks! I’d be interested in your pet peeves from the 2nd and 3rd days too. I always get a great new way of thinking about the battlefield listening to your analysis.
My pet peeve about the First Day of the Battle is the park’s lack of interpretative displays about the Rodes’ Division debacle, as well as the exact location of Iverson’s Brigade and the carnage at Iverson’s Pits. It seems more likely that Iverson’s Brigade initially advanced from the area of the Peace Light Memorial rather than from that distant area beyond the memorial that is generally cited. Also, where was the Forney Farm originally located?
Forney farm was at the intersection of modern Buford ave and Mummasburg Road facing Mummasburg rd. The farm remember was also surrounded by a fence (and on Pa farms a small orchard n the yard). From what a LBG told me, they diverted around the farm and fence so as not to divide the Regiments. I think that is accurate.
Great job Tim, Your knowledge comes from the tremendous amount of reading and research you have put into understanding the battle. I have had the opportunity to visit Gettysburg twice and I recommend everybody to visit and do a tour to really understand what transpired on July 1st to July 3rd.
The one that always gets me being a Virginian is how it always said Ewell was a coward and betrayed the greastest general of our time Robert E Lee but no launching an assault on Culps Hill, and Stonewall would have gotten them up that hill. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and while I do not know exactly what was going through Ewell's mind he was given an unclear order with a disorganized and exhausted force that he had only begun to command 6 weeks prior. It just plays into the old trope that Lee was a genius and everyone else messed it up for him, I have a great deal of respect for Gen. Lee but he should be recognized for his faults as well as his strengths
I’m very new to Gettysburg history but what I’ve read is Lee had directed his army far north of the town aiming for Harrisburg and the Susquehanna River: his second invasion into Northern Territory. However after getting information about Buford’s cavalry at Gettysburg and not really knowing I whether it was an advance of Union infantry he ordered his army to reverse course and head to Gettysburg. Definitely not an accident. As for shoes, the only thing I’ve read is the Confederate Army was on a foraging mission for almost anything from the local areas they marched through. Shoes was just one of the many they needed most. Thanks for this video!
So I have always thought that John Reynolds knew that they were probably not going to be able to win the first day. but that wasn't going to stop him from trying. But knowing that there was better ground on the other side of town. He decided to hold to allow more of the Union army to get up to either win the first day or to prepare a better defensive line further back. As for Buford he was doing exactly what cavalry was supposed to do in that situation. He was fighting a delaying action to buy time for the infantry to move up. I think his goal was to allow enough time for the 1st corps to take the crossroads and the town before meeting the confederate troops. I think you forgot a textbook cavalry versus infantry delay engagement.
I agree Tim, always refreshing to hear an analysis from someone who has dug deep into the history of what led up to the battle .... and yes, large armies on the move need good roads (and good shoes .. lol) ... so Gettysburg being a large road hub in the area makes sense for the "how and where".... and perhaps timing and fate played a role
Lee’s “Mean Old Man” Jubal Early was in Gettysburg in the last week of June . He reported there was nothing of value In the town and headed to York. You could argue Buford’s greatest failure comes on the 2nd. Rather than staying to protect Sickles left he rides off to Taneytown to be refitted and bivouac for the night. When Buford leaves Sickles he becomes blind on his left flank. The rest is 3rd Corps history.
Thank for sharing your knowledge and personal perspectives as well. The shoe story is a singular, if not anecdotal scrap of evidence as it relates to its origins and the start of the battle. Likely true on some level in the minds of the people who were involved that day. The fact that there were no shoes in Gettysburg doesn't mean they didn't get a report that there was, even if by error. I read somewhere that Hanover the next town over was known to have them, perhaps the communication was misinterpreted, who knows. The armies were hunting and probing for each other, that is fact. The confederates were on a probing/foraging advance as I see it, and they encountered federal forces instead of militia. Lets not forget that both armies were scattered and strung out over a very wide area. Lee had troops in Carlisle and Wrightsville. That initial engagement was accidental (but inevitable) in the fact that it was not planned and steadily grew in intensity as more troops arrived to the sound of the firing from both sides. An event like Gettysburg had literally thousands of participants and each had their own unique perspective based on their very limited circle of information at the time. Now add on top of that thousands of other perspectives since the battle and yes things can certainly get distorted, misinterpreted.
On June 26, elements of Maj. Gen. Jubal Early's division of Ewell's Corps occupied the town of Gettysburg after chasing off newly raised Pennsylvania militia in a series of minor skirmishes. Early laid the borough under tribute but did not collect any significant supplies. Soldiers burned several railroad cars and a covered bridge, and destroyed nearby rails and telegraph lines. The following morning, Early departed for adjacent York County. Early certainly would have laid his hands on any available supply of shoes so it's absurd to presume that any Confederate general following in his wake would expect to find much of anything left behind. Reading the map, Lee had sent Ewell's Corps towards the Susquehanna River in order to create a feint that he intended to concentrate at Hanover for an attack on Baltimore or DC. Jeb Stuart's ride around the AoP was intended to sell that feint as why else would Lee's cavalry be there but to lead the advance? Meade, who could read a map as well as Lee, knew that Lee's main body was still off somewhere behind South Mountain and thus was put on the horns of a dilemma as to whether Lee intended to concentrate at Hanover or Gettysburg. Thus Meade adopted his broad front strategy on the 28th and chose the Pipe Creek line to defend against both possibilities. Meade sent his left wing under Reynolds in a movement to contact to locate Lee's main body with orders to fall back to Emmitsburg once contact was developed. For Lee, possession of Gettysburg would give him control of the roads south he would need to turn Meade's left flank at Emmitsburg and get to Frederick where he could establish a defensive line behind the Monocacy River, threatening DC, reestablish his supply line to Winchester, and await attack. As it turned out on the first day, Lee couldn't have asked for a better scenario to defeat a portion of the AoP in detail, Heth having performed his role in conducting a holding attack to fix the Union forces in position on the open fields west of town, but Rodes botched his flank attack on Oak Ridge necessitating Hill to conduct costly frontal assaults on the Union positions on McPherson's and Seminary Ridges.
Pet Peeves- very little mention of the 71st Penn regiment running from Cemetery Ridge as Pickett's man approached leaving the 69th Penn regiment exposed on their right flank. The majority of Pettigrew and Trimble's men refusing to charge Cemetery Ridge and running away during the battle and leaving Pickett's men to do most of the fighting and most of the dying on day 3.
Tim's restaurant should take care that 'heels' don't eat there and leave without paying. The restaurant should offer some specialty items like 'sole food'.
mine is the where abouts of the split rail, from the Emmitsburg road fence is. the old museum had it on display, it had over 800 bullet holes in it. Those poor men from the Pickett/ Pettigrew charge had to climb over that fence. and speaking of museums, why is the parking lot SO FAR FROM THE NEW MUSEUM, ITS like walking the Pickett/Pettigrew charge all over again.
E.P. Alexander in "Military Memoirs of a Confedrate" does talk about shoes but that account was written 40 years after the battle and he may have been influenced by the article referenced. I do agree that shoes did not bring on the battle.
Tim we saw you back during WW2 weekend while having supper at Sweeny's tavern in the beer garden you were busy talking with others so we didn't want to interrupt you guys. great job with the info
I have a second comment. I'm 46 yrs old and live in nearby Fultom cty, PA and been into civil war history since a child going to battlefields with my dad. Back in mid 80d or perhaps earlier, a local union reenactor actually told me that gettysburg happened over the confederate army searching for shoes. I think he is still local and alive, so I'd like to correct him on that after all these years. I never forgot that
I was in Gettysburg this Summer, and in the evening, I was sitting in the garden area next to the Farnwworth house having a drink with my wife, and could not help but overhear a reenactor portraying a Southerner explaining to another reenactor portraying a Northerner, how Lee and the Army of Northern Virginia came to Gettysburg precisely because they heard that a shoe factory was there. I tried not to face palm too overtly.
Shelby Foote’s comprehensive history talks about the need for barefooted or poorly shod Confederate troops to get those much needed shoes which they were trying to get to.
Gotta love these pet peeves of Tim Smith. Lol. We need more for Day 2 and 3. I’m guessing he has a big one about the 20th Mass! Lol. Keep up the great work and see y’all at the 160th anniversary
This is not a pet peeve but a curiosity. Did the north really win day 2 or was it a draw? Secondly, was Sickles move good, essentially a delaying action forcing Longstreet to fight bfore he wanted to or was it an overall disaster. What is it?
My guess is that Ken Burns' film, "The Civil War", that aired on PBS in September 1990, is responsible in large part for the modern propagation of the "shoe factory" story. As I recall, David McCullough, the narrator, recounts this story at the beginning of the episode on Gettysburg. It is presented as factually accurate and not subject to any doubt.
I keep seeing this and it just won't go away. The myth that Buford's Cavalry was armed with repeating carbines. They were armed with breechloading carbines. The only unit at Gettysburg with repeaters was one of Custer's regiments. I think they were armed with Spencer repeating rifles which were replaced with repeating carbines after the battle.
I, too, have always thought Reynolds' message about 'getting to the heights beyond the town' meant McPherson's Ridge not Cemetery Hill. Going cross-country at the Codori house was an effort to engage the rebels west of town and defeat them there, not an attempt to have a delaying action until the rest of the army could fill the 'fishook' line.
I believe accidental is the proper description. Grant PLANNED on attacking Vickburg. Sherman PLANNED on attacking Atlanta. Most other battles of the war were accidents in that nobody specifically determined where the battle was going to take place, it just happened as troops found each other.
I think the point is that the battle was going to occur somewhere. All meeting encounters meet somewhere, it is not an accident that they meet. It is just where they run into each other. However, very few accidental encounters occur away from roads. With ten roads there was a better chance of the encounter at Gettysburg than elsewhere between the two armies.
The shoes made it into "John Brown's Body." --Fabulous shoes of Gettysburg, dead men's shoes, Did anyone ever wear you, when it was done, When the men were gone, when the farms were spoiled with the bones, What became of your nails and leather? The swords went home, The swords went into museums and neat glass cases, The swords look well there. They are clean from the war. You wouldn't put old shoes in a neat glass case, Still stuck with the mud of marching. And yet, a man With a taste for such straws and fables, blown by the wind, Might hide a pair in a labelled case sometime Just to see how the leather looked, set down by the swords.
In other words, all roads led to Gettysburg. Both armies were searching for each other. It was no accident they met there but an obvious and ultimate conclusion of running out of places NOT crossed by each other
Great points Tim. The South won the first day because they had the most soldiers available as they were physically closer to Oak Ridge at the start of the fighting. Most of the Union army was still marching on the road many miles from Gettysburg. If the North had an equal amount, they would have held that position and would not have needed to fall back through the town. Then what would Lee do - perhaps listen to Longstreet's advice and fall back and defend the Cumberland Valley? Hmmmm....
My pet peve is anyone (with the exception of any soldiers on that field at the time) in our generation calling the 11th corp the flying Dutchman. To dishonor thousands of soldiers who fought, bled and died on that filed or dozens of other fields during the war is just simply wrong and cowardly. Point your disdain upon leaders and lack of leadership. The men who bled for victory would do so just the same in defeat.
The Union Troops fought like hell on 7/1/1863. Sadly they were out numbered by the Southern army. Nobody had a grand plan in mind. The fortunes of war and confusion left an out.....on cemetary ridge.... great video
I agree with you, Tim. Perhaps there is an assumption that the the Union troops wanted to pull back to Cemetery Hill since Oliver Howard kept troops up there during the first day. However, I suspect he was preparing a fall back spot in case things didn't go well. It was fortunate he did that, but it does not seem logical that he or anyone else intended to stage a retreat there regardless of the outcome. I also do hear people say the whole battle was an "accident'." Why are these armies both on the prowl if they were not looking to destroy one another at the best opportunity? Thanks as always for your expertise and for stimulating discussion!
The fact that there was no “shoe factory” at Gettysburg doesn’t necessarily mean that Heth invented that story as some sort of excuse for bringing on the battle. By the time the post-war article was written he certainly knew there had been no supply of shoes in the town. My interpretation has always been that it was a false rumor that the Confederates acted upon in order to get something that they needed desperately. I also think the idea that Reynolds was fighting a “delaying action” only exists because of the battle accounts of Gen. O.O. Howard. The 11th Corps didn’t have easily defendable terrain to the north of the town. I’m sure Howard saw that the plains north of the town could only be defended for a short period of time against greater numbers and that it was vulnerable to a flank attack from the Northeast (Early’s Div). Why else would he hold one of his divisions on Cemetery Hill as a fallback position? I agree that Reynolds intention was to hold his positions on McPherson and Seminary Ridges to keep the town (and road network) out of enemy hands, but he died hours before it was clear that his Corps was flanked to the North and Northeast by Rhodes and Early. Simply stated, Reynolds felt the 1st Corps could hold it’s position from attacks only coming from the west, but Howard (who had a more complete understanding of the terrain and battle situation) realized that the lines to the west and north of the town couldn’t be held indefinitely and that gave rise to the idea that Reynolds must have known that too. Just my 2 cents.
Here’s something you may want to consider. Its difficult to explain going into a town of 2,400 residents with two battalions and over 20 cannon simply to forage for shoes. In going into Gettysburg you may want to look into the reorganization of Lee’s army and the impact Ewell had on Hill after looking like the second coming of Jackson at 2nd Winchester.
@@richardcashman7671 I'm guessing you meant two brigades (Archer & Davis) right? They were the two lead elements of Heth's division. And you're right. The "shoes" story doesn't explain the movement of a whole division. According to accounts Hill & Heth apparently didn't believe Pettigrew's story of running into Federal Cavalry, but he did quadruple the number of units sent the next day. I'm curious what you meant about the impact Ewell had on Hill that would lead him to move to Gettysburg. I don't understand the relevance there.
@@fredlist7091 Hi Fred, I used two battalions to illustrate that even battalion strength of 1,400 men (1863 combat strength) would be overkill foraging for shoes. In a town of 2,400 residents many who had already left town in the face of Lee’s Army. If you try to defend it with 2 Brigades you look as if you shouldn’t even be in command of a company. In the reorganization Jackson’s corps is divided in the command of Ewell and Hill. When Ezell looks like the second coming of Jackson Hill wants to answer. Gettysburg is his first opportunity. That’s why when asked if he had any objections he replied none at all. It was his chance going up against militia. Even if Buford was in town cavalry is no match against infantry. Cavalry doesn’t have the range and every 4th man was offline holding the horses. Here’s where your two brigades come in shutting the door on the shoe story.
@@richardcashman7671 Ah, I understand the battalion reference now. Thanks for clearing that up. The Hill/Ewell competition is an angle I'd not seriously considered before. Hill was certainly aggressive on July 1st and did well (eventually). He apparently lost much of that aggressiveness on the 2nd and 3rd. But my original point wasn’t to imply that the Confederates DID go to Gettysburg for shoes, it was just to suggest the possibility that there may have been a rumor to that effect at that time. And Heth writing years later may have brought it up as a convenient excuse for his blundering into the battle against Lee’s orders. We know why the Confederate corps converged on Gettysburg. Lee ordered them to.
@@fredlist7091 Hi Fred, you may be 100% right and I could be completely wrong. To me thats what makes history so much fun. Especially when you’re talking to people who are smart and know the subject. The Civil War is a great study, but I think we all have to worry about those who write too well. Everyone knows Chamberlain and the 20th Maine and hardly anyone knows about David Ireland and the 137th Nee York. Stand on LRT and you know militarily it’s a worthless piece of real estate. Read Chamberlain and its Gibraltar.
I have *_never_* read an account that Reynolds and Buford planned to retreat through the town or that they intended to lose the first day of the battle.
Not necessarily a peeve, but next time I visit, I intend to spend time at the site where the 11th Corps found itself and, in the meantime, study more on whether "the Dutchmen ran" or whether they were placed in an untenable position, or, more likely, both.
May I suggest that you pay very close attention to the decisions and actions of Brig. Gen. Francis C. Barlow. For context, I recommend Christian Keller's book, "Chancellorsville and the Germans." (Yes, it also covers Gettysburg.)
Tim. I'm in Australia but I have an extensive US Civil War library (perhaps 300+) among my much larger hoard of general history, biography & military history books. I have around 14 books specifically about the Gettysburg battle, including Pfanz's very detailed 3-volume study. What do you think of that work ? I have no doubt you've read it. Also, how do you rate Stephen Sears as a Civil War historian ? I find him the most 'readable' CW writer since Bruce Catton.
i agree, but also disagree regarding reynolds on the first day. He was trying to win. BUT, his intent on winning was also that he could hold out long enough for the rest of the Army to arrive. when the rest of the army was not going to arrive first, he could not win. even had he not died, he would have realized this and would of had to leave the field south anyway. I would argue if he was not killed, he would have eventually realized this and ordered the i and XI corps from the field south before the Xi corps got caught. Reynolds was very capable and i do not think would have allowed that to happen under his watch. that is my opnion. i do not see this as a southern victory either. they failed to secure the defensible ground, the failed to gain control of the road network, the failed to knock the union troops from the battle. they failed to even convince the union army to not fight here. 11th and 1st corps troops would engage them again. Southern "success" is pyrrhic at best. so i do not necessarily buy that. obviously, the rest is obvious regarding the shoes and the "accidental" battle. i agree wholeheartedly.
Funny that a video on pet peeves can strike a nerve on one of my own: The use of the term "decimated" to mean something other than "to reduce by 10%." Many of the Union regiments on July 1 were reduced by far, far more than 10% - which is what Tim meant, but is not what Tim said. : ) The shoe thing is funny. The confederate army had been through Gettysburg in the days prior to the beginning of the battle. On their first trip in, it appears that they did in fact confiscate some shoes (perhaps a couple hundred pair?), but not anywhere need the numbers needed to shod their army, let alone even a brigade, division, or corps. From what I have read, the fact of the intersection of roads, the fact of the oncoming railroad, and other minor factors may have contributed to that large of a number of shoes being in Gettysburg relative to the size of the town. It is absolutely conceivable to me that a rumor of additional shoes arriving in Gettysburg may have reached Heth on 30 June, and that may have added the extra incentive to conduct his recon in force - but it clearly was not the main reason. But having served as a soldier, in the ranks and as an officer, I can also understand how that rumor may have been as certain as a fact to the Joes (Johnnies) who did the fighting and dying. That would carry a lot of weight through the decades.
Buford’s 2 Brigades fought all day. First in trying to slow down the Confederate Advance on 2 fronts and holding the line until the 1st and 12th Corps infantry came up, but also fighting on both flanks, as they should have. At around 5 Pm the division was ordered forward to stop the Confederate attack. Lining up the division on Long Lane was demonstration enough to stop the Confederate advance there.
Tim objects to the battle as having been started "By accident". Well, I'm no military man, but I'm under the impression that when battles begin, the commanding generals usually have something to say about it. Like one of them at least had a plan. In this case, elements of the two armies encountered each other, started shooting at each other while each commander was miles away wanting to know "What in hell is going on over there"! Case of "There they go. I must make haste and catch up, for I am their leader"! :). My pet peeve is calling that assault on Day 3 "Pickett's Charge." Good Grief! It wasn't a "charge" and it wasn't Pickett's. I call it "Lee's Folly"! OK, so at the climax, some men of Pickett's division did make a "charge" at the stone wall, a few made it over, but Pickett himself was well in the rear.
Tim, about the shoes, I would posit that many things can be true all at once. Heth could have been told (mistakenly?) that there were shoes at Gettysburg. Heth could have ordered his men there to check out this possibility. Lee did decide to concentrate there shoes or no shoes. I’m having trouble finding anything in your argument that precludes this.
My pet peeve is when you "historians" name someone, by always including their middle name. It gives the appearance of almost arrogance.... this constant use of a soldier's middle name, when speaking to us, the "unwashed masses," somehow reminds us we need to bow down in your presence. I don't know if it was common to refer to or call someone, "Hey, John Fulton Reynolds, how are you doing?" ... back in the day, but the use of his middle name, is rather demeaning and tedious. "Hey George Gordon Meade! What's the plan?..." I could be way off base here... Maybe the use of the middle name was common back in the day?. Your thoughts?
It seems pretty clear that the Confederates just needed shoes, that would be something you would want to tell your foragers when they go to an urban area. it doesn't necessarily mean that you think there's a shoe factory there it just means get all the men's shoes you can find in town we need 'em. I guess would be that Lee's ordered a concentrate there, together with the resistance of the Union on the first day is what precipitated the whole thing. Somewhere between Lee's plan and circumstances. The existence of a shoe factory doesn't really enter into it. You should definitely open that restaurant, and you ought to serve Civil War period food. Love the cobbler theme, the only dessert should be...cobbler, cherry for us bluebelly fans, and peach for the Johnny Reb sympathizers, in some of each for those of us who just like cobbler, or believe in reconciliation.☺️
Do you actually think "townspeople " wear army Brogans? NO.......their shoes would fall apart without the heel plates. Besides, have you ever worn straight last shoes that were never broken in?
@@DonAbrams-hq7ln you make a good point but I still would think that an urban area would be a place he could get shoe leather cuz in those days leather was used for a lot of things, and if you did know there was a shoe factory it would have a lot of leather you could use to make your brogans with or at least resole some of the ones you have.
"The Shoe Factory Cafeteria" featuring Mid-18th century recipes and for a slightly higher cost - the food choices that citizens & soldiers "enjoyed" during the campaign - Confederate choices slightly le$$ 🤪 Brogan burgers, shoestring ff, rifle rolls, etc.😁😎 I'm going to apply for that trademark tomorrow! Oh well, I'll think about that tomorrow (Gee ... which Civil War movie was that from? 😆)
My pet peeve is the myth that Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain was the savior of the free world by stopping the exhausted 15th Alabama with his bayonet charge. If the 20th Maine were driven back, there were reinforcements to destroy the Alabamians. I get that Chamberlain is a war hero, but c’mon! So many Chamberlain fan boys and girls because of that damned “Gettysburg” movie.
Hi all - thank you for these great comments! Tim is very busy putting the finishing touches on our new museum. He hopes to eventually answer your questions on this thread. We are excited to see all of you at our brand new history center that will open in April 2023! We are so grateful for your engagement with ACHS and this page!
Amused when you joked about starting a restaurant named the shoe factory. Alton IL once had restaurant that specialized in selling “Horseshoe” sandwiches. Which was a dish created in Lincoln’s home town of Springfield, IL. The sandwich is two pieces of toast with ham - the shoes - topped with French Fries - the nails - covered with a cheese sauce.
You're great Tim. Always love listening to you about anything regarding Gettysburg. Extremely well informed, well read, well researched. You are also very entertaining.
Have heard Tim numerous times on Addressing Gettysburg. Can't get enough. Very glad to have found him here.
Tim has a likeable quality that the other presenters do not have..I do respect the others on this channel and I know how much time they put into their videos..achs is such an amazing resource to future generations... remember the work they perform...Ty
Thankyou so much Tim, especially in clarifying Buford's role on July 1st. There are still far too many people who firmly believe that Buford was at Gettysburg on his own initiative and that he was solely responsible for choosing the battlefield for the entire AoP, apparently due to his recognizing the value of the "high ground". I refer to appeals to "high ground" as a Sickleism.
2 small peeves. Decades ago there seemed to be a perception that on Day1 the first Brigade of the !st Corps to arrive to the relief of Buford on McPherson's ridge was ? Often portrayed as the Iron Brigade ... It was not, it was Simon Cutlers Brigade. "about 10 a.m. The Second Brigade, Brigadier-General Cutler, led the column, followed by the Second Maine Battery, Captain Hall, the First Brigade, Brigadier-General Meredith, bringing up the rear. " not a biggie, but it s what it is.... They all get into the fight pretty quick.....
#2 was just that Baxter and Paul on the Right of 1st Corps don't get a lot of attention or credit. An underlooked part of the brawl
One of my 1st day pet peeves is the narrative that the XI Corps tucked and ran. Barlow and Ames placed them in an untenable position then, in true governmental CYA fashion, denigrated the men of the corps in letters, and reports. Their word was, and seemingly continues to be taken as Gospel.
Love the content!
Thank you for the laughter! The shoe factory restaurant! Brilliant!
My "pet peeve" is when Tim Smith is not enthusiastic about presenting facts of the battle! Another great presentation. Thanks
If there had been any shoes in Gettysburg, Gen. Early would have gotten them when he passed through the town several days earlier.
I have been to Gettysburg two times and was awestruct by the size and the complexity of what happened there. After seeing this and one other of your excellent videos I realized these battles were a roadmap, to the Battle of the Bulge. Bastogne and Gettysburg have many similarities. It's spooky.
I could have sworn there was an Adidas factory there during the battle?🤔
Go to Hanover, there are a lot of
Farms with yellow barns that represent a company that makes shoes today. In June there was action in Hanover, Rebs looking for
Nike,Addias et al .lol
Not only was it not an "accident", Lee noted when he had the maps prepared for his campaign that the road network came together at Gettysburg and projected that a battle of some sort must be fought there during the course of the campaign he was planning. ("citation needed") It would be closer to accurate to refer to the location as having been chosen by General Lee before he began his invasion.
Tim, you manage to pack more information into a 15-minute video than I usually find in two-hour documentaries. Each of your ACHS videos is filled with interesting content that I had no knowledge of despite having been a GB Buff for 30 years. From still observable battle damage to battle babies, you have expanded my knowledge base significantly. I appreciate and often re-watch many of the great videos you and Garry have published over the years, but I have to say, you do a fine job in these stand-alone presentations from the ACHS. Now, regarding "pet peeves". At the beginning of this video, I thought you were going to bring up the horse's hooves myth that is often still passed on as fact. I've given up arguing about that one, so I just point out that the Longstreet statue doesn't fit in. After watching this video, I couldn't help but wonder what Eric Wittenberg thinks of your peeve. ;-) Quickly, my #1 pet peeve occurs nearly every time I post a photo of a fallen soldier on the battlefield, I get comments claiming that these ghoulish photographers were constantly moving corpses around to produce more dramatic images. Every time I see a comment like that, I feel obligated to defend the honor of the photogs by pointing out that the only documented case of that occurring was the Gardner image of the sharpshooter's nest. Often, when I ask for a source for their claim, I usually get something like, "I read it somewhere" probably from another erroneous FB comment. Like you, I've got more pet peeves, but this comment is probably too long already. Once I start talking Gettysburg, it's hard to stop. Keep up the great work, Tim, I look forward to your videos every day. Greg Ainsworth
As Reynolds arrived at Gettysburg, he paused near the Codori Barn on the Emmittsburg Pike. As soldiers removed some fencing down, he observed Cemetery Ridge and mentioned to a staff member that that was the position to hold. Reynolds wanted to spare the Town from being shelled and he did delay the CS advance as he had ordered Sickles and Howard to consolidate with him.
Outstanding as usual
Tim I agree with you 100% about the things you bring us in your videos. The one thing that used to bother me most when I was hanging (every week!) around there (1960's & 70's argg) was the relatively little you could learn about the people who lived in the town and surrounding farms. You have really brought the town to life in a way with your honest details and accurate presentations of what was there, and what is fact and what isn't.
To "peeve" in the dictionary is to annoy and for me it begins and ends with the ghost hunting tourist traps. Lincoln said ..."from these honored dead.." and we hope they all rest in peace regardless of their 'elevation and windage'.
To me ghost tours distract from understanding the real tragedy and suffering of a battle like this.
Thanks Tim. That was amusing and informative, as always
Thanks!
I’d be interested in your pet peeves from the 2nd and 3rd days too. I always get a great new way of thinking about the battlefield listening to your analysis.
My pet peeve about the First Day of the Battle is the park’s lack of interpretative displays about the Rodes’ Division debacle, as well as the exact location of Iverson’s Brigade and the carnage at Iverson’s Pits. It seems more likely that Iverson’s Brigade initially advanced from the area of the Peace Light Memorial rather than from that distant area beyond the memorial that is generally cited. Also, where was the Forney Farm originally located?
Forney farm was at the intersection of modern Buford ave and Mummasburg Road facing Mummasburg rd. The farm remember was also surrounded by a fence (and on Pa farms a small orchard n the yard). From what a LBG told me, they diverted around the farm and fence so as not to divide the Regiments. I think that is accurate.
Great job Tim, Your knowledge comes from the tremendous amount of reading and research you have put into understanding the battle. I have had the opportunity to visit Gettysburg twice and I recommend everybody to visit and do a tour to really understand what transpired on July 1st to July 3rd.
Thanks for the kind words! We will pass this along to Tim.
Thank you, Tim!
The one that always gets me being a Virginian is how it always said Ewell was a coward and betrayed the greastest general of our time Robert E Lee but no launching an assault on Culps Hill, and Stonewall would have gotten them up that hill. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and while I do not know exactly what was going through Ewell's mind he was given an unclear order with a disorganized and exhausted force that he had only begun to command 6 weeks prior. It just plays into the old trope that Lee was a genius and everyone else messed it up for him, I have a great deal of respect for Gen. Lee but he should be recognized for his faults as well as his strengths
Agree but I think Lees bigger mistake was on the 2nd (not helped by bad reconnaissance) and an inexcusable decision for the 3rd
I’m very new to Gettysburg history but what I’ve read is Lee had directed his army far north of the town aiming for Harrisburg and the Susquehanna River: his second invasion into Northern Territory. However after getting information about Buford’s cavalry at Gettysburg and not really knowing I whether it was an advance of Union infantry he ordered his army to reverse course and head to Gettysburg. Definitely not an accident. As for shoes, the only thing I’ve read is the Confederate Army was on a foraging mission for almost anything from the local areas they marched through. Shoes was just one of the many they needed most. Thanks for this video!
Good stuff! I agree with all of your pet peeve’s. Thanks for explaining everything so easily. 👍😊
Glad you enjoyed it!
So I have always thought that John Reynolds knew that they were probably not going to be able to win the first day. but that wasn't going to stop him from trying. But knowing that there was better ground on the other side of town. He decided to hold to allow more of the Union army to get up to either win the first day or to prepare a better defensive line further back. As for Buford he was doing exactly what cavalry was supposed to do in that situation. He was fighting a delaying action to buy time for the infantry to move up. I think his goal was to allow enough time for the 1st corps to take the crossroads and the town before meeting the confederate troops. I think you forgot a textbook cavalry versus infantry delay engagement.
I agree Tim, always refreshing to hear an analysis from someone who has dug deep into the history of what led up to the battle .... and yes, large armies on the move need good roads (and good shoes .. lol) ... so Gettysburg being a large road hub in the area makes sense for the "how and where".... and perhaps timing and fate played a role
Tim!!!--Just delightful to view and listen too. And very correct. THANKS..
Pet peeve: when Buford's delaying action is described as a "defense in depth."
I would just add I hope this is the first of a set of Tim's Pet Peeves about each day of the battle.
We are working on more!
Lee’s “Mean Old Man” Jubal Early was in Gettysburg in the last week of June . He reported there was nothing of value In the town and headed to York. You could argue Buford’s greatest failure comes on the 2nd. Rather than staying to protect Sickles left he rides off to Taneytown to be refitted and bivouac for the night. When Buford leaves Sickles he becomes blind on his left flank. The rest is 3rd Corps history.
Boy, I woulda bet that the pronunciation of McFEARson’s Ridge was going to be up here! Lol
Thank for sharing your knowledge and personal perspectives as well. The shoe story is a singular, if not anecdotal scrap of evidence as it relates to its origins and the start of the battle. Likely true on some level in the minds of the people who were involved that day. The fact that there were no shoes in Gettysburg doesn't mean they didn't get a report that there was, even if by error. I read somewhere that Hanover the next town over was known to have them, perhaps the communication was misinterpreted, who knows. The armies were hunting and probing for each other, that is fact. The confederates were on a probing/foraging advance as I see it, and they encountered federal forces instead of militia. Lets not forget that both armies were scattered and strung out over a very wide area. Lee had troops in Carlisle and Wrightsville. That initial engagement was accidental (but inevitable) in the fact that it was not planned and steadily grew in intensity as more troops arrived to the sound of the firing from both sides. An event like Gettysburg had literally thousands of participants and each had their own unique perspective based on their very limited circle of information at the time. Now add on top of that thousands of other perspectives since the battle and yes things can certainly get distorted, misinterpreted.
My pet peeve is people saying that Gettysburg was the turning point of the war.
On June 26, elements of Maj. Gen. Jubal Early's division of Ewell's Corps occupied the town of Gettysburg after chasing off newly raised Pennsylvania militia in a series of minor skirmishes. Early laid the borough under tribute but did not collect any significant supplies. Soldiers burned several railroad cars and a covered bridge, and destroyed nearby rails and telegraph lines. The following morning, Early departed for adjacent York County. Early certainly would have laid his hands on any available supply of shoes so it's absurd to presume that any Confederate general following in his wake would expect to find much of anything left behind.
Reading the map, Lee had sent Ewell's Corps towards the Susquehanna River in order to create a feint that he intended to concentrate at Hanover for an attack on Baltimore or DC. Jeb Stuart's ride around the AoP was intended to sell that feint as why else would Lee's cavalry be there but to lead the advance? Meade, who could read a map as well as Lee, knew that Lee's main body was still off somewhere behind South Mountain and thus was put on the horns of a dilemma as to whether Lee intended to concentrate at Hanover or Gettysburg. Thus Meade adopted his broad front strategy on the 28th and chose the Pipe Creek line to defend against both possibilities. Meade sent his left wing under Reynolds in a movement to contact to locate Lee's main body with orders to fall back to Emmitsburg once contact was developed. For Lee, possession of Gettysburg would give him control of the roads south he would need to turn Meade's left flank at Emmitsburg and get to Frederick where he could establish a defensive line behind the Monocacy River, threatening DC, reestablish his supply line to Winchester, and await attack.
As it turned out on the first day, Lee couldn't have asked for a better scenario to defeat a portion of the AoP in detail, Heth having performed his role in conducting a holding attack to fix the Union forces in position on the open fields west of town, but Rodes botched his flank attack on Oak Ridge necessitating Hill to conduct costly frontal assaults on the Union positions on McPherson's and Seminary Ridges.
Pet Peeves- very little mention of the 71st Penn regiment running from Cemetery Ridge as Pickett's man approached leaving the 69th Penn regiment exposed on their right flank. The majority of Pettigrew and Trimble's men refusing to charge Cemetery Ridge and running away during the battle and leaving Pickett's men to do most of the fighting and most of the dying on day 3.
Tim's complaining skills are world class. I also enjoy complaining as I come from a long line of grumps. I wish I possessed his abilities.
Hah! Thank you Patrick!
Tim's restaurant should take care that 'heels' don't eat there and leave without paying. The restaurant should offer some specialty items like 'sole food'.
" NO Tarheels Allowed Within "
You'll mess up the rug
mine is the where abouts of the split rail, from the Emmitsburg road fence is. the old museum had it on display, it had over 800 bullet holes in it. Those poor men from the Pickett/ Pettigrew charge had to climb over that fence.
and speaking of museums, why is the parking lot SO FAR FROM THE NEW MUSEUM, ITS like walking the Pickett/Pettigrew charge all over again.
E.P. Alexander in "Military Memoirs of a Confedrate" does talk about shoes but that account was written 40 years after the battle and he may have been influenced by the article referenced. I do agree that shoes did not bring on the battle.
Tim we saw you back during WW2 weekend while having supper at Sweeny's tavern in the beer garden you were busy talking with others so we didn't want to interrupt you guys. great job with the info
I have a second comment. I'm 46 yrs old and live in nearby Fultom cty, PA and been into civil war history since a child going to battlefields with my dad. Back in mid 80d or perhaps earlier, a local union reenactor actually told me that gettysburg happened over the confederate army searching for shoes. I think he is still local and alive, so I'd like to correct him on that after all these years. I never forgot that
I was in Gettysburg this Summer, and in the evening, I was sitting in the garden area next to the Farnwworth house having a drink with my wife, and could not help but overhear a reenactor portraying a Southerner explaining to another reenactor portraying a Northerner, how Lee and the Army of Northern Virginia came to Gettysburg precisely because they heard that a shoe factory was there. I tried not to face palm too overtly.
Shelby Foote’s comprehensive history talks about the need for barefooted or poorly shod Confederate troops to get those much needed shoes which they were trying to get to.
Tim I completely agree with you. Love your vids.. 👍
Great presentation Tim. THANK YOU for never saying the word MYTH! What most historians mean is Pet Peeves not Myths!
Gotta love these pet peeves of Tim Smith. Lol. We need more for Day 2 and 3. I’m guessing he has a big one about the 20th Mass! Lol. Keep up the great work and see y’all at the 160th anniversary
One of my pet peeves is when people pronounce 'especially' 'exspecially'
I remember a Time Life Books commercial in the 80’s that began with “they came to town looking for shoes.”
I can see where Tim really wanted to drop a "BULLSH*T!!!" at 12:25, LOL. As a dyed in the wool curmudgeon, I love his pet peeves, more please. ♥
We try to keep it clean! :)
This is not a pet peeve but a curiosity. Did the north really win day 2 or was it a draw? Secondly, was Sickles move good, essentially a delaying action forcing Longstreet to fight bfore he wanted to or was it an overall disaster. What is it?
My guess is that Ken Burns' film, "The Civil War", that aired on PBS in September 1990, is responsible in large part for the modern propagation of the "shoe factory" story. As I recall, David McCullough, the narrator, recounts this story at the beginning of the episode on Gettysburg. It is presented as factually accurate and not subject to any doubt.
I keep seeing this and it just won't go away. The myth that Buford's Cavalry was armed with repeating carbines. They were armed with breechloading carbines. The only unit at Gettysburg with repeaters was one of Custer's regiments. I think they were armed with Spencer repeating rifles which were replaced with repeating carbines after the battle.
I, too, have always thought Reynolds' message about 'getting to the heights beyond the town' meant McPherson's Ridge not Cemetery Hill. Going cross-country at the Codori house was an effort to engage the rebels west of town and defeat them there, not an attempt to have a delaying action until the rest of the army could fill the 'fishook' line.
This is awesome Tim. I will eat at "The Shoe Factory"
I believe accidental is the proper description. Grant PLANNED on attacking Vickburg. Sherman PLANNED on attacking Atlanta. Most other battles of the war were accidents in that nobody specifically determined where the battle was going to take place, it just happened as troops found each other.
I think the point is that the battle was going to occur somewhere. All meeting encounters meet somewhere, it is not an accident that they meet. It is just where they run into each other. However, very few accidental encounters occur away from roads. With ten roads there was a better chance of the encounter at Gettysburg than elsewhere between the two armies.
The shoes made it into "John Brown's Body."
--Fabulous shoes of Gettysburg, dead men's shoes, Did anyone ever wear you, when it was done, When the men were gone, when the farms were spoiled with the bones, What became of your nails and leather? The swords went home, The swords went into museums and neat glass cases, The swords look well there. They are clean from the war. You wouldn't put old shoes in a neat glass case, Still stuck with the mud of marching. And yet, a man With a taste for such straws and fables, blown by the wind, Might hide a pair in a labelled case sometime Just to see how the leather looked, set down by the swords.
In other words, all roads led to Gettysburg. Both armies were searching for each other. It was no accident they met there but an obvious and ultimate conclusion of running out of places NOT crossed by each other
Great points Tim. The South won the first day because they had the most soldiers available as they were physically closer to Oak Ridge at the start of the fighting. Most of the Union army was still marching on the road many miles from Gettysburg. If the North had an equal amount, they would have held that position and would not have needed to fall back through the town. Then what would Lee do - perhaps listen to Longstreet's advice and fall back and defend the Cumberland Valley? Hmmmm....
Great info Tim! Hmmm, a restaurant with the name, "The Shoe Factory" ....I think ya got something there 😉
My pet peve is anyone (with the exception of any soldiers on that field at the time) in our generation calling the 11th corp the flying Dutchman. To dishonor thousands of soldiers who fought, bled and died on that filed or dozens of other fields during the war is just simply wrong and cowardly. Point your disdain upon leaders and lack of leadership. The men who bled for victory would do so just the same in defeat.
They were also called 'Howard's Cowards.'
The Union Troops fought like hell on 7/1/1863. Sadly they were out numbered by the Southern army. Nobody had a grand plan in mind. The fortunes of war and confusion left an out.....on cemetary ridge.... great video
The shoe thing is in the Ken Burns documentary. Reading matters.
Meaning? That because Ken Burns mentions it so it must be true? I don’t follow your comment.
I agree with you, Tim. Perhaps there is an assumption that the the Union troops wanted to pull back to Cemetery Hill since Oliver Howard kept troops up there during the first day. However, I suspect he was preparing a fall back spot in case things didn't go well. It was fortunate he did that, but it does not seem logical that he or anyone else intended to stage a retreat there regardless of the outcome. I also do hear people say the whole battle was an "accident'." Why are these armies both on the prowl if they were not looking to destroy one another at the best opportunity? Thanks as always for your expertise and for stimulating discussion!
Howard placed one division of his corps there, as his reserve: to be sent where needed, if needed.
The fact that there was no “shoe factory” at Gettysburg doesn’t necessarily mean that Heth invented that story as some sort of excuse for bringing on the battle. By the time the post-war article was written he certainly knew there had been no supply of shoes in the town. My interpretation has always been that it was a false rumor that the Confederates acted upon in order to get something that they needed desperately.
I also think the idea that Reynolds was fighting a “delaying action” only exists because of the battle accounts of Gen. O.O. Howard. The 11th Corps didn’t have easily defendable terrain to the north of the town. I’m sure Howard saw that the plains north of the town could only be defended for a short period of time against greater numbers and that it was vulnerable to a flank attack from the Northeast (Early’s Div). Why else would he hold one of his divisions on Cemetery Hill as a fallback position? I agree that Reynolds intention was to hold his positions on McPherson and Seminary Ridges to keep the town (and road network) out of enemy hands, but he died hours before it was clear that his Corps was flanked to the North and Northeast by Rhodes and Early. Simply stated, Reynolds felt the 1st Corps could hold it’s position from attacks only coming from the west, but Howard (who had a more complete understanding of the terrain and battle situation) realized that the lines to the west and north of the town couldn’t be held indefinitely and that gave rise to the idea that Reynolds must have known that too.
Just my 2 cents.
Here’s something you may want to consider. Its difficult to explain going into a town of 2,400 residents with two battalions and over 20 cannon simply to forage for shoes. In going into Gettysburg you may want to look into the reorganization of Lee’s army and the impact Ewell had on Hill after looking like the second coming of Jackson at 2nd Winchester.
@@richardcashman7671
I'm guessing you meant two brigades (Archer & Davis) right? They were the two lead elements of Heth's division.
And you're right. The "shoes" story doesn't explain the movement of a whole division. According to accounts Hill & Heth apparently didn't believe Pettigrew's story of running into Federal Cavalry, but he did quadruple the number of units sent the next day.
I'm curious what you meant about the impact Ewell had on Hill that would lead him to move to Gettysburg. I don't understand the relevance there.
@@fredlist7091 Hi Fred, I used two battalions to illustrate that even battalion strength of 1,400 men (1863 combat strength) would be overkill foraging for shoes. In a town of 2,400 residents many who had already left town in the face of Lee’s Army. If you try to defend it with 2 Brigades you look as if you shouldn’t even be in command of a company.
In the reorganization Jackson’s corps is divided in the command of Ewell and Hill. When Ezell looks like the second coming of Jackson Hill wants to answer. Gettysburg is his first opportunity. That’s why when asked if he had any objections he replied none at all. It was his chance going up against militia. Even if Buford was in town cavalry is no match against infantry. Cavalry doesn’t have the range and every 4th man was offline holding the horses. Here’s where your two brigades come in shutting the door on the shoe story.
@@richardcashman7671 Ah, I understand the battalion reference now. Thanks for clearing that up.
The Hill/Ewell competition is an angle I'd not seriously considered before. Hill was certainly aggressive on July 1st and did well (eventually). He apparently lost much of that aggressiveness on the 2nd and 3rd.
But my original point wasn’t to imply that the Confederates DID go to Gettysburg for shoes, it was just to suggest the possibility that there may have been a rumor to that effect at that time. And Heth writing years later may have brought it up as a convenient excuse for his blundering into the battle against Lee’s orders. We know why the Confederate corps converged on Gettysburg. Lee ordered them to.
@@fredlist7091 Hi Fred, you may be 100% right and I could be completely wrong. To me thats what makes history so much fun. Especially when you’re talking to people who are smart and know the subject. The Civil War is a great study, but I think we all have to worry about those who write too well. Everyone knows Chamberlain and the 20th Maine and hardly anyone knows about David Ireland and the 137th Nee York. Stand on LRT and you know militarily it’s a worthless piece of real estate. Read Chamberlain and its Gibraltar.
Tim I adore you❤️🇺🇲
I have *_never_* read an account that Reynolds and Buford planned to retreat through the town or that they intended to lose the first day of the battle.
I would love to dine at the Shoe Factory!
The wandering Tim. 😄
Excuse it was the 11th Corp not the 12th.
Not necessarily a peeve, but next time I visit, I intend to spend time at the site where the 11th Corps found itself and, in the meantime, study more on whether "the Dutchmen ran" or whether they were placed in an untenable position, or, more likely, both.
May I suggest that you pay very close attention to the decisions and actions of Brig. Gen. Francis C. Barlow. For context, I recommend Christian Keller's book, "Chancellorsville and the Germans." (Yes, it also covers Gettysburg.)
11th Corps casualties where just as high as any other Corps.
ACHS does have agood vid up now on 11th corps. curiously...not by Tim
Tim. I'm in Australia but I have an extensive US Civil War library (perhaps 300+) among my much larger hoard of general history, biography & military history books. I have around 14 books specifically about the Gettysburg battle, including Pfanz's very detailed 3-volume study. What do you think of that work ? I have no doubt you've read it. Also, how do you rate Stephen Sears as a Civil War historian ? I find him the most 'readable' CW writer since Bruce Catton.
Does Buford at least get credit for significantly delaying the Confederate advance or is that untrue as well?
well of course he did its self evident right
Nice Job Tim! My biggest Peeve of the whole war is So many forget Stonewall was killed Friendly fire!
i agree, but also disagree regarding reynolds on the first day. He was trying to win. BUT, his intent on winning was also that he could hold out long enough for the rest of the Army to arrive. when the rest of the army was not going to arrive first, he could not win. even had he not died, he would have realized this and would of had to leave the field south anyway. I would argue if he was not killed, he would have eventually realized this and ordered the i and XI corps from the field south before the Xi corps got caught. Reynolds was very capable and i do not think would have allowed that to happen under his watch. that is my opnion. i do not see this as a southern victory either. they failed to secure the defensible ground, the failed to gain control of the road network, the failed to knock the union troops from the battle. they failed to even convince the union army to not fight here. 11th and 1st corps troops would engage them again. Southern "success" is pyrrhic at best. so i do not necessarily buy that. obviously, the rest is obvious regarding the shoes and the "accidental" battle. i agree wholeheartedly.
I would definitely go to the "shoe factory" for a nice Ribeye steak. And a glass of Cab. 😃
Funny that a video on pet peeves can strike a nerve on one of my own: The use of the term "decimated" to mean something other than "to reduce by 10%." Many of the Union regiments on July 1 were reduced by far, far more than 10% - which is what Tim meant, but is not what Tim said. : )
The shoe thing is funny. The confederate army had been through Gettysburg in the days prior to the beginning of the battle. On their first trip in, it appears that they did in fact confiscate some shoes (perhaps a couple hundred pair?), but not anywhere need the numbers needed to shod their army, let alone even a brigade, division, or corps. From what I have read, the fact of the intersection of roads, the fact of the oncoming railroad, and other minor factors may have contributed to that large of a number of shoes being in Gettysburg relative to the size of the town. It is absolutely conceivable to me that a rumor of additional shoes arriving in Gettysburg may have reached Heth on 30 June, and that may have added the extra incentive to conduct his recon in force - but it clearly was not the main reason. But having served as a soldier, in the ranks and as an officer, I can also understand how that rumor may have been as certain as a fact to the Joes (Johnnies) who did the fighting and dying. That would carry a lot of weight through the decades.
Good stuff. (26th NC descendant of real Tar Heels)
Thanks!
Ever been to Monroe, Company G
was raised there and suffered the
Most of any Regiment at Longstreets command,òver90%.
I worked for Cuddy Farms then.
It would be hard to imagine trying to march an army quickly without proper footwear. It is not a laughing matter
The great Hancock!
Buford’s 2 Brigades fought all day. First in trying to slow down the Confederate Advance on 2 fronts and holding the line until the 1st and 12th Corps infantry came up, but also fighting on both flanks, as they should have. At around 5 Pm the division was ordered forward to stop the Confederate attack. Lining up the division on Long Lane was demonstration enough to stop the Confederate advance there.
Tim objects to the battle as having been started "By accident". Well, I'm no military man, but I'm under the impression that when battles begin, the commanding generals usually have something to say about it. Like one of them at least had a plan. In this case, elements of the two armies encountered each other, started shooting at each other while each commander was miles away wanting to know "What in hell is going on over there"! Case of "There they go. I must make haste and catch up, for I am their leader"! :). My pet peeve is calling that assault on Day 3 "Pickett's Charge." Good Grief! It wasn't a "charge" and it wasn't Pickett's. I call it "Lee's Folly"! OK, so at the climax, some men of Pickett's division did make a "charge" at the stone wall, a few made it over, but Pickett himself was well in the rear.
Also, the other units and Generals involved, e.g. the 26th NC (sadly) and Pettigrew.
Why did the battle happen at Gettysburg? Because John Reynolds decided to fight there.
Tim, about the shoes, I would posit that many things can be true all at once. Heth could have been told (mistakenly?) that there were shoes at Gettysburg. Heth could have ordered his men there to check out this possibility. Lee did decide to concentrate there shoes or no shoes. I’m having trouble finding anything in your argument that precludes this.
No wonder they fought for three days when they found out there were no shoes!
Having a gg grandfather in the 105th PA there would have to be peach cobbler served at the shoe factory. Lol
My pet peeve is when you "historians" name someone, by always including their middle name. It gives the appearance of almost arrogance.... this constant use of a soldier's middle name, when speaking to us, the "unwashed masses," somehow reminds us we need to bow down in your presence. I don't know if it was common to refer to or call someone, "Hey, John Fulton Reynolds, how are you doing?" ... back in the day, but the use of his middle name, is rather demeaning and tedious. "Hey George Gordon Meade! What's the plan?..."
I could be way off base here... Maybe the use of the middle name was common back in the day?. Your thoughts?
Please open the Shoe Factory restaurant. I might be an investor.
It seems pretty clear that the Confederates just needed shoes, that would be something you would want to tell your foragers when they go to an urban area. it doesn't necessarily mean that you think there's a shoe factory there it just means get all the men's shoes you can find in town we need 'em. I guess would be that Lee's ordered a concentrate there, together with the resistance of the Union on the first day is what precipitated the whole thing. Somewhere between Lee's plan and circumstances. The existence of a shoe factory doesn't really enter into it. You should definitely open that restaurant, and you ought to serve Civil War period food. Love the cobbler theme, the only dessert should be...cobbler, cherry for us bluebelly fans, and peach for the Johnny Reb sympathizers, in some of each for those of us who just like cobbler, or believe in reconciliation.☺️
Do you actually think "townspeople " wear army Brogans? NO.......their shoes would fall apart without the heel plates.
Besides, have you ever worn
straight last shoes that were never broken in?
@@DonAbrams-hq7ln you make a good point but I still would think that an urban area would be a place he could get shoe leather cuz in those days leather was used for a lot of things, and if you did know there was a shoe factory it would have a lot of leather you could use to make your brogans with or at least resole some of the ones you have.
I thought it was obvious the union lost the first day at Gettysburg. They did not set out to fight a delaying action with exception of Buford.
I’ll have a cherry cobbler at your restaurant!
Hopefully the chops and steaks wouldn't taste like ... well, shoe leather!
"The Shoe Factory Cafeteria" featuring Mid-18th century recipes and for a slightly higher cost - the food choices that citizens & soldiers "enjoyed" during the campaign - Confederate choices slightly le$$
🤪 Brogan burgers, shoestring ff, rifle rolls, etc.😁😎
I'm going to apply for that trademark tomorrow!
Oh well, I'll think about that tomorrow (Gee ... which Civil War movie was that from? 😆)
My pet peeve is the myth that Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain was the savior of the free world by stopping the exhausted 15th Alabama with his bayonet charge. If the 20th Maine were driven back, there were reinforcements to destroy the Alabamians. I get that Chamberlain is a war hero, but c’mon! So many Chamberlain fan boys and girls because of that damned “Gettysburg” movie.
I agree. There was just as much heroics going on cemetery hill as well. Tremendous night battle as well.
Folks don’t read.
It made for good Northern propaganda. The "barefooted rabble," looking to steal shoes. But yes, the "shoe story" annoys me too.
Great idea to open the Shoe Factory in Gettysburg. Let me know if you need a partner.
lots of fuss over shoes, I’d say.
I find expsecially annoying.
Forgive Tim for this - he is from Baltimore (or "Bolimer")!
I had to tap out. Boring.
Yes, the shoe factory! Sounds like a fine place to dine!! Love it!!!
Are you offering," filet of sole"?
I like mine blackened with a side of
hardtack and truffles,please!!!