Grouper/ Invasive Lionfish Live Open Water Kill: Believed to be the First Recorded Observation
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- This video is believed to be the first photo documentation of a grouper making an open water kill of an invasive lionfish without encouragement of any kind by a diver. Footage by Jim Hart, co-founder and executive director of Lionfish University.
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That grouper knew it was dancing with the devil, and it knew all the steps
I fuckin love this comment so much. It perfectly encapsulates the encounter
@T Wilson if it weren't in danger, it wouldn't have calculated its attack so meticously
@@leonpaul6198 oh yea, like how cats calculate their attacks on small insects so meticulously, because they could be killed attacking them... The grouper wouldn't eat this lionfish as though it was a common thing for it if it was that affected by its venom, the spines don't just go away because the grouper swallowed it. That grouper had venom coursing through it's body the second it ate the lionfish, eating too many too quick would actually harm them.
@@leonpaul6198 what? That behaviour is demonstrated by many animals in land, sea and air. You're just seeing the action condensed into 4 minutes. Ever seen Orcas killing a larger whale?
Same process but that takes hours.
Only thing missing Charlie Daniels violin with The devil came down to Grouper lol
If we rented a ballroom at the Sheraton, and had this grouper give seminars to other aspiring groupers, we could be done with the lionfish once and for all.
theres covid dude... they gotta make a seminars via zoom meeting
Funniest thing I've read all month
Invite him for a tedxtalk
That grouper needs its own TEd talk
we should play the footage on a big underwater screen for the other groupers to see
when i was shooting this lionfish and the grouper, I knew very quickly the grouper was not waiting for me to take an action to assist any kill or injury to the Lionfish. The Grouper in my view was working the LF the way a Cutting Horse does a steer, or a sheepdog herds sheep. As the interaction escalated I kept saying to myself, "don't run out of battery. don't run out of memory. and don't run out of air." at the end of the dive, my dive buddies watching during their safety stop and I looked at each other and just said. "WTF! Did you see that?" My go pro did not go back in the water for anymore dives that day. The footage was too precious. I can only hope, learned behaviour or not, Grouper are repeating this observation all over the Caribbean. JV Hart Writer/Diver
@Jim Hart I have a lot of experience teaching sports and doing movement analysis. From what I have heard, Lionfish aren’t good swimmers, thus tier out quickly.
What I saw, was the grouper not only herd the Lionfish into open water, but make it struggle to stay safe. I noticed a lot for tail fin action, from the Lionfish. If the grouper only needed to get the Lionfish into open water, it was effective in that much earlier and didn’t need to move it towards the surface.
I realize this video is 5 years ago, has this behavior been noticed or studied since then? Could this be a reason why moray eels eat, but don’t don’t hunt Lionfish? If other predatorily species learned this, it could change the hunting and eating habits.
I have some thoughts on how to achieve this. Thanks, and reply if you’re interested in continuing this conversation.
@Jim Hart By the way, great film work and documentation. I would love to dive into that world.
Since I was 15 I've been diving the Caribbean near the Colombian Panama border since 1975. I witnessed the death of entire elkhorn coral banks and many other environmental disasters in a sea located far away from industry. Today I regret being involved in catching & killing 2 giant groupers. For a diver the adrenaline generated while swimming along these giants is worth much more than the excitement of spearfishing. Today I use my speargun responsible only to provide protein every other month... but while diving I cry internally because the last giant grouper I saw was about 15 years ago. I beg all fellow divers and fishermen, stop hunting for these magnificent creatures.
My question is, did the grouper live after eating the LF? Or did it die, in a relatively short time afterwards, from internal damage? I’d very much, like to know.....
@@tiffanycoates431 we don't know. but a particular grouper called mini me by legendary dive master Dottie Benjamin in Little Cayman routinely hunted lionfish together like a birddog and a human for almost 2 years and survived until a fisherman in protected waters caught MiniMe. I filmed early footage of Dottie and Minime hunting and the grouper ingesting lionfish without reaction.
This wasn’t this Grouper’s first Lion Fish. Lets hope the Grouper has lots of groupies.
Yeah the grouper knowing not to just bite where the spikes are
I believe the grouper has eaten Lionfish before. You notice how it avoided the spines until it got a chance to attack. It looks as if the Grouper herded the Lionfish into open water for it's attack.
agreed. not this grouper's first rodeo. but capturing on video was a first so far as no other video evidence has been produced.
@DIPTA DAS not sure how old your video is but that Nassau is much bigger than the Grouper in our video. also no finning or herding was required with our Grouper so I doubt the same grouper would have required that kind of interaction. as a rule we do not recommend or support the feeding of lionfish to predators. it changed the shark's behaviour within 2 weeks of spearing lionfish in little cayman. and moray eel attacks on catch bags and zookeepers and divers with speared lionfish have injured several divers. please do not feed lionfish to predators. hopefully it is a learned behaviour that can be passed on by the fish and not humans. thank you for the video.
Yes, it clearly seems experienced with this method.
Yeah that's what I was going to say. So. Now I don't have too.
B)
Yup, that wasn't his first rodeo.
For the first time in the lion fish's life, it felt fear.
It also happened to be the last.
Lion fish are tasty. Not hard to filet either.
Hunter x Hunter reference
Amazing!! A great display of predatory intelligent tactics. It was obvious that the LF was keeping its' back spines facing the grouper. And you can see the grouper intentionally waiting for the LF to make a small mistake in its' maneuvering. He seemed to be intensely focused. Great stuff.
Yes. The grouper was waiting until he could swallow it head first. No chance for the fin rays to inject the toxin.
Not worried bout the venom but trying to expel the spikes out of a grouper anus
Would this grouper be dangerous to eat, and did the grouper suffer any adverse effects??
Right up until the point where the grouper swallows the lionfish, thereby impaling his insides on its spines...
@@justincase5272 who knows, the grouper's acid stomach fluids might be able to digest the spines, like other fishbones...
I wrote a paper on grouper activity in college. They have intelligence equal or greater than Labrador retriever. They feel pain. They stalk prey. They are adaptive to fishing techniques and can communicate with other grouper, based on the information that I found years ago.
Certain fish are far smarter than you think.
We see less than 0.1% of a fish's life as it's coming out of the water on our line, only to suffocate to death and think, "fish are dumb".
🤦
DAMN, that's awesome!
Years ago I went in a restaurant in Ischia island (Italy) and the owner had a big grouper in the aquarium. The behavior of this grouper was like a pet, extremely intelligent and emotional. I couldn't believe my eyes
They feel pain? You needed research to establish that fact? Wow, science, eh? 😶
For those who are concerned with the grouper, it is known that grouper are not affected by the venoms of the lion fish. That looked like a Nassau Grouper to me…the first was definitely. I wish our groupers up here in SE florida coast would learn to eat the lion fish. Great video….Keep learning groupers….we need your help. HA.
I didn’t know they had venom I was just like eat it, eat it, eat it.
@@kerrynicholls6683 yeah a lion fish has barbs in its fins, and has a very painful venom. The grouper isn't immune to the venom it still stings, but if the grouper swallow the lion fish from the front it pushes the barbs backwards so they are not sticking up.
Seen barracuda learn to eat them to. This is why in the video the lionfish is trying to keep the top barbs pointed towards the lionfish at all times.
Real problem in the usa ive herd
@@Robert53area yes, this here is the only correct observation in the entire comments
@@thepervertedmonk2353 thanks, yeah seen lion fish off the coast of Florida, invasive little bastards glad nature has found a way to deal with them.
The fact that the lion fish knows how not to get eaten despite having barely any predators is worrying
Animals brains are different man, pure survival instincts.
The lionfish has virtually no predators _because_ of its instincts in how to position its fins like that to block attacks and sting its would-be predators. If it was a naked stingerless fish, or if it kept its fins folded in, any bigger fish would have a go. So it has to keep those instincts sharp to keep other fish from _being_ predators.
The defense mechanisms are insane
@@williambarnes5023 exactly which also means animals think an can learn even more than instinct
That one must have missed the seminar on "how not to get eaten"!
That grouper was thinking really hard. It had the same look in its eyes as our dachshund when he really wants something just out of reach.
Internal monologue: Don'tgetstabbed Don'tgetstabbed Don'tgetstabbed.... Gotcha :3
What a game that was, and the lionfish knew exactly what the stakes were. My opinion is the grouper absolutely maneuvered the lionfish into the open water. He got between it and the coral, came up from behind, and just manipulated that lionfish into doing what the grouper wanted. No doubt in my mind.
Once in the open water, the grouper studied it for a bit. constantly looking for an opening. The lionfish did a great job fighting an unwinnable battle by constantly rotating his body, keeping the spines facing the grouper and leaving it's soft underbelly out of harm's way
But alas, in the end, he was lunch.
That grouper had to have experience with a lionfish before. Or it just learned very quick. You see early he gets aggressive by the coral and looks like he takes a spike or two, but that first showed great strategy pushing him off the coral, kind of seemed like he kept going to target the tail. Kind of impressive tactic.
Further to Robbie H's reply, my impression was that Grouper was not only 'feeling' for spines, but also electrical and/or chemical protrusions by 'brushing by' multiple times. The degree of stalking is profound.
The grouper was so preternaturally smart it sensed the diver was video recording and went to great lengths to put on a good show for him. The grouper knew this was his chance for a break into show biz.
Grouper was definitely trying to figure out how to eat the Lionfish.
If that gets oassed down, then Lionfish wouldn't be as "invasive" anymore
Not just the groupers, but the sharks as well.
@DIPTA DAS Oh wow, it does looks like the same grouper, the stripes look the same
Go Darwin go!
@@Razgriz85 sharks I'm pretty sure prey on Lionfish if I'm wrong I will admit it
Hmmm I will say that predation doesn’t always solve invasive species. What causes an invasive species to be so hard to root out is that they exploit an ecological niche that was not previously filled before their introduction. So groupers would have to prey on Lionfish at a high enough rate to make the niche less exploitable. Unfortunately this is not likely as the action of preying on a lionfish is much more energetically costly because the lion fish poses an inherent threat due to the poison as well as the energy that is clearly required to chase it around and eat it (at least in this case). Groupers will do as they have always done, eat the food that gives them the highest net energy gain, so in this case, probably not lionfish. However, there could be a scenario in which groupers become more adapted for hunting lionfish down the line as they could evolve both resistance to the poison as well as better hunting techniques of lionfish are exploited BY the groupers as an additional food source. However, this is still not likely because the lion fish is already so dangerous, that’s what allowed it to exploit the niche in the first place, and usually for something like this to occur we would need to see what is commonly known as an evolutionary arms race, where the grouper would develop resistance as fast as the lionfish could develop poison strength.
That looked just like a mongoose working on a cobra. Constantly moving around and around, causing it wear down. Only big difference being that the grouper can deliver the crippling strike in one bite.
The other grouper was observing and will learn from observing. Anyone who has had a marine fish tank eventually gains an appreciation of how intelligent marine fish are and their capacity for learning, even in comparison to freshwater fish. They observe, they learn, they even play. Perhaps it’s because of their natural habitat having such lushly inhabited environments with such varied prey and predators. Any individual that isn’t observant and quick to learn gets devoured or gets outcompeted for food by more successful hunters.
Unless I decide to eat that grouper.
Or was hoping for scraps from the kill. Must say though, when a grouper decides to swallow something... Bye!!
Anyone who spearfishes should have appreciation for how smart fish are
The groupers are the most intelligent fish in the ocean like their fresh water cousins the Cichlids.
@@Jezza_One you just say that or actually for real
That beeping noise of your battery running out of juice was the most tense part of this entire interaction.
More likely his dive watch alarm for ascending too quickly.
It was like a microwave, saying dinner's ready.
Definitely a warning for speed of ascension
Beeping noise was because he was going up to fast
He was ascending too fast so his dive computer put out the alarm. Nice footage but be sure to be safe first always. Its no joke and can be very dangerous.
That is cool how the grouper knew he had to eat him from the front.
Its surprising he knew where "front" was ! The lionfish kept on defense but didnt work
It's a Nassau grouper, their big and immune to Lionfish's poisonous fins
👏🏽 awesome. Took its time
@benji are you? Getting that upset about that lmao. Dude fuckin chill and stay lff the internet
@benji actually they do eat a lionfish head first. The spines lay down flat and won't stick into the grouper's mouth. So it really is looking for the right angle to attack . I'm sure you doubt that as true. A simple internet search can provide answers to whether or not that is correct
I am a Fisheries biologist and have to say this was fascinating to watch. The lion fish had a defensive strategy (flair the fins to artificially maximize size "Iam to big to eat" then float passively like a non edible item) and it was easy to see that it knew it was in trouble. It would be of great value to know if the grouper survived this encounter. I've seen grouper expel items they find after ingestion not to be of their liking. The jockeying position for a head first ingestion was interesting. It also looked like the grouper was distressed as it swam back to the coral head. Knowing whether it lived or died would have answered a few questions here.
head first take flattens the spines and make easier to ingest. You do not find dead grouper in my experience from eating lionfish. there is a certain amount of distress but cold blooded marine life do not register pain the way mammals do. it is more of how to ingest it. i have seen a group take a lionfish then cough it up to turn is around an re ingest it.
Jim, I’m no expert in this, but it seems to me that this video does show a deliberate herding behavior on the part of the Grouper. It seems to keep the LF moving upwards cutting off its available vertical space for escape which would eventually force it downwards (I assume) head first. It looks like before the strike it actually lets it drop a few feet.
Equally interesting to me is how it first blocked its retreat into the coral AND how the other Grouper then put itself into the blocking position. Amazing footage Jim.
You know I’ve watched this a few times now and it’s just as fascinating to me still as it was when you first showed it to me on Little Cayman.
-Andy-
we agree. there is a debate amongst scientists over who was in charge. we think the Grouper had the upperhand in spite of the LF constantly keeping its dorsals in the Grouper's face.
Yeah, the way it appeared to me, as a layman, was that the grouper knew the lionfish's behavior pattern and was using it's own defenses against it. Pushing it into an increasingly precarious position only to allow the lionfish to make a mistake and snap it up.
It seemed to use a few harassing tactics similar to those of wolves, including having a buddy take over blocking Retreat while the primary Grouper worked to drive the Lionfish into position for the kill.
Just watching the strategy was amazing. Lionfish spines protect attacks from the rear, which still means that a frontal or side assault is game-over. Someting the Grouper clearly knows as well (maybe even a trial by error thing). Very cool!
I've noticed that the "invasive stinkbug" in Eastern America has gotten the attention of the spider population, specifically the black jumping spiders. They seem to have grown fond of them as easy prey.
Thank god!
@@TomSolo128 I don't either, but it's the black jumping spiders that have taken an interest in them too. I looked for more information on them, but the 'net doesn't seem to be able to provide me with their actual information.
They're really common east of the Appalachian Mountains (and seem to be increasing in number, while the Stinkbug population is declining), they're black, slightly fuzzy, no bigger than my thumbnail, and can leap nearly 6 inches.
I've seem them a couple of times with Stinkbugs "kills" in their jaws (even watched one make their leap attack and get one, which surprised me since it was right above my head at the time)!
😅👍
@@soundspark To be honest, I haven't noticed (and I didn't want to put my face that close to either of them)!
🤣👍
Assuredly a learned behavior. Grouper are very smart, I observed them eating spiny lobster in Cuba. Chewed them up, spit out the shells. He seemed very pleased with himself. Hog snapper also have no fear, attack anything they perceive as lunch, or a threat to their patch of reef. Moray eels will also aggressively engage anything close to "their" coral head home.
Really interesting video. I have experience with volitans lions mostly from the aquarium trade but also whilst diving. They are largely sedentary, and will hang in the water or "roost" vertically or upside down in caves. They swim mostly when they want to herd prey with their pectoral fins into the target area for that massive mouth (I've witnessed them take on meals far too big for themselves regularly).
But this one knows it's being predated (not natural for them, they have very few natural predators - mainly because they are new and invasive in most areas) I don't read this as the grouper "herding" into open water - it seems more like the grouper knows what he is doing and trying to get the correct angle to take the lion, whilst the lion very obviously just tried to keep its dorsal spines facing the grouper (only the dorsal spines are venemous) whilst generally keeping itself as "large" as possible (all fins fanned out from body) to me the open water strike is just a by product of the lion keeping dorsal spines pointed at the grouper, and conversely the grouper looking for the right angle .... They just end up in open water.
Really interested to know how the grouper ate the lion without injury though even so - how did he avoid the spines ? He's done that before and gotten hurt for sure, that's learned behaviour.
Grouper are clever.
I thought the same thing as if it was checking for the best angle to attack!
"Of the known species to feed on lionfish in their native Indo-Pacific habitat, predators include moray eels, tiger groupers, and blue-spotted cornetfish. Sharks are also known to prey on lionfish, and it's believed they're immune to their venom."
I completely agree the way he grabbed it the whole lionfish just collapsed into his mouth perfectly In a way the poisonous quills didn’t affect it. It was definitely looking and waiting for the right angle. As you saw he nipped a few times but didn’t commit he must not have been 100% on those but waited for that perfect hit. So awesome.
Like a WW2 dogfight. 2 opponents locked in a dance of death, waiting for the *exact right moment* to strike. But, you know, fish, underwater. Very cool.
Edit: spelling
@@princequestly2218 if you look closer, the grouper gets a good bite of the lionfish's head which causes it to flip on its back. While on its back, the grouper then finished it.
Unfortunately, I don't have it on video, but I witnessed when a YF Tuna swallowed =, in one bite, a whole LF, just 3 feet away from me. We were scuba diving at 30-40' depth at Bonaire, N.A... The length of the LF was approx 15-16 inches. The year was 2011. I vividly remember the -unique-sound of the YF Tuna when it gobbled up the whole fish. It sounded like a "short" underwater vacuum bubble.
It seems to me that the grouper was trying to get around the Lionfish to attack from the front or face. I noticed the Lionfish was doing a good job of keeping its face away from the Grouper until it ran out of room to manouver closer to the surface. I strongly suspect that this Grouper has experience eating Lionfish.
Most reef fish are bony and spiny (groopers included) this is why any reef predator have evolved ton it really care about them. They either immune to the venom, or like sharks the spins won’t get through the skin any time soon. That Lion fish did a good job of defending itself but being invasive also gives it a disadvantage, in which they have no idea what to do when they do get preyed on by local fish. A lion fish that has evolved along side certain groopers will evolve to evade them but when matched with another will not instantly be able to adapt.
Yes, I agree. The Grouper was trying to get in front of the Lionfish. Ascribing "herding" tactics, it seems to me, is a little too anthropomorphic. I could be wrong, bit more collaborative evidence is needed, I think.
Great footage for studying Grouper behavior though.
Don't need to be an expert to see he was trying to keep him off the reef.
The grouper maneuvered the LF to the optimal swallow angle. The LF knew that quite well, kept trying to keep it's back toward the grouper.
It is hard to tell from the video...but these Grouper are nearly 6 ft long and over 800 lbs!!!! I worked with this team, Jim and Stacy and Dr. Steve for years and we dove together countless times. Awesome video team!
you have a good imagination deejay. i have never seen a grouper the size you are suggesting. not even a Goliath Grouper. But yes on this day this Grouper was a giant superhero..
@@jvhart lol yes indeed
This is like watching my buddy Barney approach every lady at the club.
Hahahaha LoL
Barney must have been outstanding, one shot one kill kek irresistible to every lady
OMG, that's hilarious!!!!
😂
Amazing! That lionfish was eaten in the blink of an eye! Groupers are very intelligent fish, and there is no question in my mind that it herded that lionfish into open water. Great footage, guys!
This wasn't his/her first lion fish by a long shot. That grouper knew what he/she was doing.
Are you afraid to misgender a fish?
@@markwhalbergchevrolet9267 yes
Lionfish: STAY BACK, I'VE GOT DEADLY BARBS!
Grouper: *chuckles in fish* This ain't my first rodeo.
Most large fish try to swallow it's prey fish head first so their fin spines fold down.. It looked like the grouper was trying to get into this position but the lion fish kept presenting his back and spines. Then the grouper saw an opening and attacked the lion fish at the head stunning it. Then the grouper went for an easy swallow which involves the gills creating a water vacuum and spinning the lion fish so the spines folded and went down head first..
Good explanation.
ExMachina70 I mean, that's exactly what just happened. I guess that comment would be useful to people who didn't watch the video and just read the comments. But, is there anyone who actually does that?
Nigel H. Lol no reason to get snarky. I just thought he did a good job of explaining about the vacuum, and all. The actual attack happened so quick that it was tough to tell how it happened.
I agree but this wasn't the case. All the moves the grouper made were to avoid the lion-fish's venomous dorsal/anal/pectoral spines. But I guess he got tired of trying to get him on its front and pecked his lower dorsal and ate him from behind (don't really know if the fact of driving it to the top or even the light intensity had something to do with it). If you freeze the image between 3:80 to 3:49 (use space bar key as a pause/play button) you can see what I am talking about.
Rui Pedro Silva The groupers intent was to get the lion fish head on and not herd him anywhere in particular..
It appeared to me that the Grouper's attack strategy requires an anterior approach to the Lion Fish. The Lion Fish's defense strategy was to stay against the reef presenting its posterior (spines forward) to the Grouper. Against the reef the Lion Fish's defense strategy works effectively because it only has to maneuver from attacks in a limited number of dimensions. Once the Grouper worked its way "inside" it was able to force the Lion Fish into open water where its head was vulnerable in 3 dimensions, end of Lion Fish.
I was thinking 3dimensional as well. Like a fighter pilot.
It was also made more aggressive by the approach of the other two divers near the end, I am nearly certain they caused the attack to occur when it did. The grouper must have imagined it was about to lose his meal and went in more aggressively.
This was really sloppy work if they were serious about doing science. You must always include your presence, as well as the other two divers in this case, when determining what natural behaviour is going on.
Good video, but I don't see a lot of science going on. Also good to know that natural marine life is making a run at an invasive species.
It is a problem we are going to see more and more as climate changes occur.
@@larrystevens7410 Yeah, probably hard for most marine biologists too stay submerged, without floating quickly to the surface...inflated ego. lol
@@atomicwedgie8176 OK, that was funny. I'm always one for a pun. LOL
There's actually some real potential with that one, I'm already thinking about how to adapt it to a political gag.
Thanks for the laugh, needed that today.
@@larrystevens7410 I do my best!
I've been snorkeling a couple of times and have seen a ton of groupers. Always thought they seemed smarter than the average fish.
Looks like the grouper worked hard to get a shot at the lion fish’s head, and inside his spines/fins. He got it into open water so he could maneuver for his attack.
A very interesting video- from the way both fish behaved, it seemed that the grouper had encountered members of the other species before. It certainly circled the lionfish, looking for the right moment to strike. Whether the lionfish had ever encountered a grouper before is more difficult to decide: it's defense strategy of twisting and turning to present its poisonous spines to it's enemy may simply be a standard defense behaviour. It didn't seem particularly troubled by being herded away from the reef, where it might have stood a better chance of surviving. Could we have witnessed the very birth of new behaviours in this population of fish, I wonder? Will this behaviour of herding lionfish into more open water before attacking spread amongst the grouper population? Will it lead to the elimination of the invasive species? Or will the lionfish learn to dive into the reefs and rock crevices at the sight of a grouper, and refuse to budge for anything? This is absolutely fascinating!
When I was in Little Cayman, probably a few years before this video was shot, the DM's were spearing lionfish and feeding them to groupers. A large grouper approached me and started bumping my face mask with its head. I never touch the sea life, but in this case I pushed the fish away and it kept coming back. Finally I picked up some sand and threw it at the grouper, and it bit me on the ear and drew blood! Finally the DM saw what was happening and swam over and managed to get the grouper away from me. FEEDING WILD ANIMALS IS ALWAYS A BAD IDEA! A day or two later I saw grouper on the menu at a restaurant and ordered it as a revenge meal. It was delicious! Sadly, it doesn't seem to be available where I live now. Great video!
Grouper are an endangered species just like us.
It was really interesting watching the lionfish keep it's spines facing the grouper and the grouper trying to get to the underside of the lionfish. Very cool video 👍
This is fascinating footage. Honestly very important stuff right here; what great luck that this diver recorded this footage, and that it wound up in the right hands. These lionfish are a huge problem.
Bit like humans then being an even bigger problem. Firstly destroying the earth on land, now trying to interfere in the sea. It’s called evolution! A thing that’s gone on for millions of years. The lion fish have their protection methods as a means of protecting themselves as they are not big or fast. Man playing god in a place they know less about than on earth
This is so awesome! Thanks for sharing this video. This gives ecologists a lot of hope.
Fingers crossed for a "grouper see, grouper do" situation emerging.
That is a great thing to see. From watching the video, as the grouper herded the LF up the water column, he was looking for a stun shot first. IF you notice, the first bite he takes at the LF ACTUALLY disabled the LF(causing the LF to turn upside down creating tonic immobility) you can see which at that point he grabbed the poison fins to see if the LF reacted and drew it close to swallow. Definitely was looking for the headshot to stun so the fins would relax and then BOOM, LF becomes grouper poop.
lmao
This was spectacular to watch. That grouper has lots of experience with this type of meal.
Grouper : bruh ,i just wanna see your face !
LionFish : No 😌
What a surprise reading the description. I grew up on Cayman Brac, a some 14 square mile island in the middle of the Caribbean Sea. I have fond memories as a kid sailing and tacking between Little Cayman and Owen’s island.
Great camera work and intuition that what you saw could be something important to marine biology. I would agree it did appear the grouper was indeed herding the LF in such a manner to avoid attacking it where the barbs would injure it. We can only presume that is a learned behavior. It will be interesting to see if anyone else now comes forward with additional footage of grouper-LF predatory behavior.
The other grouper said, "bet you won't eat a lionfish in front of cameras". First grouper, "hold my beer".
It's like dog fighters during the world wars maneuvering planes into the right position.
I’m just happy that you kept filming and didn’t look away to turn off your watch alarm.
So young, to go after such an invasive species!
Bravo, young grouper💪
Grouper be like - "Oh hell the no, you ain't moving into this neighborhood if I have anything to say `bout it!"
the color of that lionfish is actually black and blue.
lionfish are red
Gold and white.... obvs
Will be brown very soon
The Nassau grouper tried various approaches (tactics) to avoid the lionfish's spines. The lionfish looked practiced at having wandered over different predators. The grouper took several stings before his final attack but seem to know from the start where he needed to attack to have the best chance of success. In the pacific there has been film showing groupers, stonefish and other Pacific or Indian Ocean fish eating lionfish. My conclusion:
1) The lionfish that warded off the attacks if predatory fish stalking itself.
2) As a predatory fish itself the lionfish knew what the grouper was up to.
3) Because of the way the grouper took several stings the grouper acted as if he had attack and eaten a lionfish before probably a small one and had developed at least a partial immunity.
4) If the grouper survived devouring the lionfish, then the claim lionfish in the Atlantic has no natural predators is false. The lionfish had potential natural predators that had not develop the tactics to hunt and survive eating a lionfish yet.
5) Success in Atlantic fish eating lionfish is NOT a reason to put Pacific fish in Atlantic Ocean nor Atlantic fish in Pacific Ocean.
That grouper knew exactly what it was trying to do and the lionfish knew exactly what it was trying to do
To me it did look like the grouper was “herding” the lionfish. The LF body was always in a defensive posture and did not swim as casually nor as confidently as the grouper.
Thanks Nog. One of the scientists who analyzed the video posed the question: Did eating the lionfish have any adverse effects on the grouper?
Excellent question
Just a couple thoughts: Animals seem to learn quickly through experience those things which are not suitable food items, nature often using bright colors as a warning. This grouper seemed to exhibit having experience with lionfish as it did not just try to inhale it in one gulp. Instead it patiently positioned the LF until it was able to quickly strike and stun it. It also seemed to herd the LF toward the divers raising the question if in the past divers had speared LF and fed the grouper. While more study is needed, it may indicate that LF are a food item for large grouper that is not unduly harmful and they understand that LF must be "handled" with care.
@LionfishU I have a lot of experience teaching sports and doing movement analysis. From what I have heard, Lionfish aren’t good swimmers, thus tier out quickly.
What I saw, was the grouper not only herd the Lionfish into open water, but make it struggle to stay safe. I noticed a lot for tail fin action, from the Lionfish. If the grouper only needed to get the Lionfish into open water, it was effective in that much earlier and didn’t need to move it towards the surface.
I realize this video is 5 years ago, has this behavior been noticed or studied since then? Could this be a reason why moray eels eat, but don’t don’t hunt Lionfish? If other predatorily species learned this, it could change the hunting and eating habits.
I have some thoughts on how to achieve this. Thanks, and reply if you’re interested in continuing this conversation.
Waited for the Lionfish to make a mistake and let its guard down. New respect for the Grouper!
We need to show this video to all the groupers now.. How to eat a lionfish !!
take a lionfish to lunch and eat it!
That grouper was hunting for the belly, and the lionfish was very careful in not presenting it. Patience and skill.
After the lionfish had been persuaded into more open water but still no joy for the Grouper it appeared to be exhibiting signs of frustration.....but apparently that was a ruse cos' there was nothing frustrated about the way the Grouper took that lionfish.....a sublime strike 😎
It really seemed to me that the grouper did herd the lionfish out into the open water. I hope this has caught on.
Man that grouper took a long ass time trying to decide which is the best way to eat that sob!!! LOL!!
the fins are tipped with poison i think or maybe it was a different species
Kong Moua They are.
not poison - venom “Poisonous-often confused with venomous-means a plant, animal, or substance capable of causing death or illness if taken into the body. Venomous means capable of injecting venom. A Lionfish is not itself poisonous, because if you eat one it won't poison you.
Guys, Guys, Guys, these two have done that "act" many, many times. Once out of sight the Grouper spits out the Lionfish and they have a good laugh! But it never gets old for the divers who are videoing it. Gotta love the humor these two buddies of the deep have developed!
Just reviewing this video after two years. please visit our FB page at Lionfish University. Shooting this video opened a door for me and my colleagues at LFU. We have been supporting Dr. Steve Gittings of NOAA and his trap research to take invasive lionfish off the reefs 24/7. we could use all the donations we can muster from the community. Thank you. JV Hart LFU
contact his/her agent. This grouper star may be on tour.
for those of you who may be wondering, the grouper had terrible diarrhea for several days after eating the lion fish.
"There is controversy among experts who have viewed the video as to whether the grouper herded the lionfish into open water for the kill or whether it followed the lionfish"
Well.. BS! This was a very deliberate action on the part of the grouper and I had the impression the second fish you see early on in the video was observing to learn.
wondering now.. why is the grouper so careful before the first attack but after that pretty much eats the fish whole? I'd imagine the spines would still be a problem?
i believe the grouper is following the lion fish. grouper are bottom dwellers and rarely go up that high in the water column. the lion fish was trying to get away. the grouper was just hungry and got caught in the moment. this is just what i think.
Obvious that the Grouper herded that LF to be able to attack it better.
@@EPICxFUZZ
You also have to consider lionfish behavior. I've seen lionfish in captivity, they tend to avoid open water even within the confines of an aquarium. A lionfish would never swim out into the water column like that unless forced.
Fish that panicked and try to escape will usually head for the surface if they don’t have any place they can hide (this is why when encountering a shark for example you shouldn’t rush to the surface) now whether that was the groopers plan all along I’d say probably but you’ll have to ask it, either way it expected it. So in the end whether deliberate or not doesn’t really matter and unless you able to ask the fish you won’t know what it was planning.
@@EPICxFUZZ Grouper do go all the way up for food. Have seen them strike fishing lures near surface and take hooked fish right up to the boat.
Beautifully shot! I love how the camera 📸 filmed from underneath the fish 🐠 🐡 towards the water surface and sun 🌊 ☀️
Honestly, it looks like a learned hunt. Either the fish learned my watching other predator fish, or it learned how to eat it on its own.
It was interesting how the lionfish spread its spines and kept turning to face the grouper seemingly to make itself look big. Meanwhile the grouper seemed to be sizing up the lionfish, inspecting it from as many angles as possible to determine if it would be on the menu.
It was actually the opposite. The lionfish was facing away from the grouper the entire time to protect its own head and expose the to rear facing spines towards the grouper.
This guy dive computer was screeming all the way up i guess he was acending to fast ope he is ok in the end. No footage deserve risk of DCS.
@@rubyleopard I have no clue what his actual depth was, but you can stay up to 200 minutes at 40 feet without a decompression stop, and you'd run out of air before then. He didn't seem to be going up very quickly to me. As long as he wasn't holding his breath, which no experienced diver would do, he wasn't in danger.
That beeping was going on while he was still on the bottom. Do dive computers do that when you ascend too quickly? I learned to dive before dive computers were a thing, and it's been a long time since I've been diving.
Really didn't look like he was that deep down.
A local aquatics store had place Lionfish in a large tank with Grouper. When the store reopened ... no more Lionfish.
::Lion fish swims off reef:: “Why do I hear the jaws theme?!”
Grouper :: “You know you f-ed up, right!?”
Lionfish: Hey wheres this boss music coming from?
Ive witnessed groupers picking up an urchin by the spikes to access the tender/vulnerable area underneath.
That was Just Fantastic. Your Footage OMG 😱👍 Congratulations too you. Definitely the Groupers we're maneuvering the LF out like you commented afterwards. Too get that opportunity had too be just Coincidental, but also a Miracle that you were in the Right place, at the precise time. As for the Grouper He Definitely Knew His business, when He Finally Ate that BUGGER. HMMM.
Must of been Good.
Thank you. We showed the footage to a group of marine biologists that night on my laptop and by their reaction you would think it was the superbowl!
The grouper is a good stalker until finding the best opportunity to strike the lionfish.
Watching this suggest that it's far from the first time these 2 fish have encountered each other. Not the same fish of course but watch the way they move. The grouper knows he can only eat the Lion fish head first. And the lion fish knows he has to keep his head away from the grouper at all cost. This learning behavior doesn't happen that quick. This has been going on for a while. It gives me hope that the native fish are fighting back against the invaders.
I was thinking about that process today. Where I live we're having a problem with bears losing their collective fear of humans because we've stopped shooting them. This takes generations of bears not impressing their cubs with a 'stay way' signal. It takes generations for the change to happen, but bear generations happen a lot faster then with us.
The Grouper seemed to be looking for an angle to swallow the lionfish head first so the spines fold and go down the throat easy. The Lionfish knew this and kept showing the back. Grouper sort of nudged Lionfish out into open water where it is easier to outmanoeuvre it.
Grouper: Hey! Hey Lion! Hey! Hey! Hey Lion!
Lionfish: WHAT!
Group: *chomp*
you're talk like a orange 😀
The satisfaction watching the grouper maneuver to get its kill and meal, and reading the various interpretations of the process in the comments. I don't know how YT recommended this video to me, but it's good 👍
That must have been a young Grouper? It didn’t look that large compared to pictures I have seen but at least it knows a new source of food to go after!
That grouper needs a reward! It's amazing to see how intelligent the grouper is and more amazing to watch him study the LF, like he was studying every movement of the LF, looking for a weakness, until he found one!
Imagine the convo
Grouper: c’mon man just a little nibble that’s all
Lionfish: Bruh piss off!!!
Grouper: c’mon just a little taste 😂
Only a spoonful
Thank you for boring me to tears for almost 4 1/2 minutes watching fish swimming around. The split second finale wasn’t worth being bored for nearly all of the video.
I like the questions at the end. I too was wondering if there was any adverse effect after eating. Hopefully predators will learn how to deal with these non-native invaders.
Anyone else unsure which fish was gonna die? I kind of figured the grouper was gonna eat the lion fish, but I wasn’t sure till the end
I received my MD from Lionfish University, but whenever I go to a hospital for an interview they always tell me "this isn't a real degree" and ask "why aren't you wearing pants?".
That grouper planned that hunt step by step and waited for the lionfish to panic. Great footage
Thanks for posting this! VERY interesting! Nature is a wonderfully amazing thing!
I like how as the grouper swims around the lionfish, the lionfish always instinctively turns it's body with the spine facing the grouper.
Impressive. You’ve got to wonder how many it had taken previously for it to pull it off so smoothly.
Fish learn very quickly. My aquarium fish figure things out in 3-5 feedings. If I move stuff around normally a day a plan is figured out. 2 days most figured out when to take food from the plecos. Had a few get to bold and not survive their failures.
Once the angle was just right, it was over in a blink on an eye, literally. Seriously, I blinked and I missed it, had to rewind to the part where the Grouper attacked the LF. It was freaking awesome!
It seems this grouper has grown up around lionfish and knows exactly how to hunt them.
Just stalk the prey til it drops it's guard or makes that one little mistake.
fish are a lot smarter than most people give credit for. This video is a great example of their problem solving skills.
I have to know what happened to the Grouper! This is going to bother me for a while.
Same. I must know.
Perpetual Student Lion Fish are venomous not poisonous, so the grouper is probably just fine.
Giron Creations no it’s not haha, fish will be fine if the spines digested, fish probably adapted an immunity to the venom since the scorpionfish, a relative is also venomous. If the grouper were to eat those it would also be immune to the lionfish venom
@Giron the man i wouldn't bring religion into this argument if I were you ^ . ^
@@Rodentfisherman lion fish can only poison something if it gets stabbed by the fins. If not, no venom is injected.
I was at a restaurant in South Carolina called Wicked Tuna, and ate freshly caught Tuna Sushi, Bang Bang Grouper, Lionfish, and Hogfish all in one sitting. They were all AMAZING. Best seafood restaurant experience in my life.
This is like a baby crawling up and just eating a cat. It's such a little baby grouper. ❤️
The grouper quickly learned that it Needed A large dose of TUMS, several tablets of ROLAIDS, MAALOX and OMAPRAZOLE to kill the severe acid indigestion and bloating it endured shortly after. Weeks and months later, It still stayed away from Spicy Food, thorns, spines and fancy looking fins. It will probably resume normal swimming habits after the Indigestion and heartburn it endured. Update: After a few months, It needed a stomach transplant performed by a marine biologist/veterinarian onboard a nearby Oceanography vessel .
The grouper was trying to eat him head first. That's smart. It's how reptiles eat prey also.
I loved how his dive Computer always warned about going to fast up