6.5 Creedmoor vs 6.5x284 Norma Nosler 129gr Accubond Long Range
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- čas přidán 27. 10. 2020
- Can an Old School 6.5 whoop up on the Creedmoor? Let's find out!
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I enjoy your videos. Pretty well done for DIY.
You omitted some information on the 6.5-284N. You didn't mention that the 284 parent case is a rebated rim design. This means that the case rim, which is the same as 308, 30-06, 8mm Mauser, ect., is smaller than the case body. This gives equivalent case capacity of a 270Win or 30-06, in a 54mm case, as opposed to 64mm for the 30-06.
I shoot and reload for a Cooper MDL22, 6.5-284Norma, 1/8", 26'' barrel. This a single shot heavy barreled varmint type rifle. I am used to very heavy recoiling magnum rifles, like 340WBY and 300WBY, presently. I always wanted a very, very accurate varmint rifle that will kill a moose. The recoil of this cartridge in this rifle is very light, about equivalent to a 223 in a light sporter rifle.
The 6.5-284, first saw life as a wildcat, made popular by long range competition. I remember the article in Accurate Shooter. In this article they talk about how this woman, shot a 1.59", 5 shot group at 1000yds. This was a world record at the time, not any longer.
The 6.5-284 has a reputation for being a barrel burner. Competitive long range shooter often reported loss of accuracy after as many as 800-900 rounds. A casual varmint shooter can go longer, before accuracy falls off enough, to require attention.
Cooper Firearms of Montana offers a barrel replacement policy. Shoot out one of their barrels and for $125, they will replace, fit and test a replacement barrel. Plus shipping and all. I may use this very generous policy, eventually. I can save shipping by just driving over to Stevensville and taking a tour of their plant. I have talked to the fellow that tested the original barrel and they offered me a tour if I was ever in the area. They offered tips on COL, bullet jump, primer and powders. I would love to see their wood blanks and learn how they are able to see, in that blank, what becomes a mind-blowing rifle stock.
Awesome. I'm getting .25 moa with handloads. Will be black bear hunting v with this all spring
@@AlaskanBallistics is this with the 6.5 creed? .25 moa? Do you think than kind of accuracy could be done in a308 ? I’m pretty exited!I finally got some large rifle primers and as soon as I did a friend found 800 more in an OLD stash. When it rains it pours :) I need more powder . I know I asked you this before but I tried and tried to find your reply to no avail. What powders do you use? I promise I’ll write them down this time :) thanks for posting these videos!
@@danielandrews7028 powders all depends on caliber. I like blc2 for .308.
I get .25" with my 6.5x284 Norma and my 127gr barnes lrx
That's fantastic! See? The Norma has been around all my life, hiding in plain site.
Why doesn't their website mention this barrel replacement policy? Not calling you a liar, but plenty of people can shoot out a barrel every few years on Magnum and overbore cartridges...
Great video and comparison Chuck! God bless you and the family brother 🦅🇺🇸
Well done, and very informative sir. Thank you for the great comparisons.
You're welcome. Thank you for watching
Chuck, first off great content! Enjoy all the videos as well as the music! I’ve always loved shotguns. Maybe do a bear protection for 12 ga? Various buck, and various slugs? Just a suggestion. Congrats on the child on the way! God bless, and continue with the great content!
Thank you Ian.
I plan on filming 12ga vs .45-70 for bears. Soon
A 6.5 PRC would have been cool to see in there, but near video anyway! Thank you very much!!
You're welcome. Thanks for watching. I want a 6.5 PRC but can't afford the sako i like
Not affordable... ryger made their m77 classic in 6.5x55 a while back
@@AlaskanBallistics It's not the rifle, it's the price of 6.5 PRC ammo that hurts.
Yeah i box 3 boxes the other day
@@AlaskanBallistics How bad was it? At one point the only places selling Hornady 6.5 PRC wanted $140/box. It's back down below $90/box last I checked.
These new, latest, greatest calibers are just retreads of old school calibers that have been around and taken game for years. The 6.5 PRC,26 nosler, 6.5 Creedmoor are all game killer's. So are the Swede, Norma and 6.5× 300 Weatherby. Let's also not forget about the .264 Winchester magnum and the 260 Remington. All great calibers, not all gained traction because they were going up against the big 3. The 30 06, 270 and the 308 are trusted and have a large fan following .
Good comparison. I think they gimped the 6.5 - 284 Norma by shoving it down so far to fit everybody's mags. The F class guys are loading them out further and buying long-throated barrels to eke out more ballistic coefficient while handloading. The Norma has a lot of potential and is very accurate. Still, CIP has the Norma as having 32% more case volume and can at least match the Creedmoor in accuracy at longer ranges. Hunting guys have ~100-150fps boost in speed for improved penetration. Norma is probably the most powerful 6.5mm round that will fit a .473 boltface. I can't think of anything hotter than Norma without changing out the bolthead. God bless you too and your viewers and contributors.
Thank you Jeff. I appreciate the info.
Educated comment 🙏👍
Interesting, thanks for sharing. Take care.
You're welcome
Right on man! I did not want to get a 6.5 creed because everyone has one. I am going with the norma because it is obviously better. The only reservation I have is that the I have been reading that the norma has throat erosion problems after 1000 rounds. I am thinking about building and reaming my own with either a harder barrel or carbon fiber.
Yeah you really want a nuclear grade steel for this round. Anything above the creedmoor seems to have this problem, 6.5 prc, 6.5-06, 6.5x300 weatherby, for most hunters it's not a problem
Gotta love Norma. And I’d love to see you add the 6.5 PRC to the roster.
Yeah standardizing that round was a smart move by them
Thanks for sharing!!
Thanks for watching
Yes a 6.5 PRC video would be great!
When i can find one to use
Great video. I’m starting to think you started a channel as an excuse to buy new guns and shoot more without mama getting upset:)
You found me out
Totally my excuse.
Nice comparison 👏
Thank you
All the 6.5mm cartridges have good killing power
To bad the
6.5x57 never got any love in the USA
It’s definitely a hidden Gem in the rifle world
Can be pushed to those limits and beyond
But thanks for the video
Really like seeing the old school carts still kicking behind
Thanks i wish i had some to test as well
6.5x55 loaded with 140 grain Accubond gives me 2750-2800 fps from a 23 inch barrel. Inside 150 yards it gives excessively blodshot carcasses. In my book any more speed than that really starts to limit the practical ranges it can be used for. Sure I want to be able to shoot animals on the moon. But if that means lots of meatloss on the sensible ranges then I'll pass.
I can understand that.
that blood shot meat is all dependent on the bullet shoot a barnes 127 LRX and it is a total different would channel...
I love barnes Lrx. All i hunt with
@@magwamagwa45110 That might be I have not tried it. 👍
@@karlantonlillester4884 i have shot over 20 elk with both 7STW and 270 with 140 and 130 barnes ttsx and the ild x bullet and the biggest difference between solid copper and cup and core bullets is the amount of bloodshot meat the coppers really make a difference and no lead in your meat....
Awesome video old 6.5x284 is the winner. Both will work but 6.5x284 will give better punch on bigger game at longer range.
Very true
Have both calibers. My wife wanted a rifle other than her Mosin for Wisconsin whitetails. So, I bought the 6.5-284 to replace my 6.5 Creedmoor, which went to her. Love both rounds.
Me too. Hoping to kill something with my 6.5x284 this year.
@@AlaskanBallistics me too. Got my dope load worked up, and my dope sheet ready
Your measurement of the Nosler Accubond Long Range bullet 129 grain 6.5 mm shows the bullet is not as sturdily constructed for weight retention at high velocities from short ranges as many would think. But then again, this is basic physics. Would like to see this comparison between Swift A-Frame vs Nosler Partiton in these similar bullet weights in these two calibers.
When ammo or bullets are available agaim
Partitions are my favorite hunting bullets, just keep them 350yds and under, not the most accurate.
Chuck, which brand and line of ammo have you seen be the most consistent with velocity?
Honestly, they've all had problems. Nosler is usually the best, save this video.
I own a .260, 6.5 Creedmoor and a 6.5-284 Norma. The 6.5-284 can be loaded up easier with heavier bullets, their 156 grain Oryx is a real hard hitter for a factory loaded cartridge.
Yeah i have that on order with a local gun shop, but you know how that is these days lol... just got dies, thinking about loading up some 127gr lrx like i use in my creedmoor.
I've never shot a .260, would like to though.
@@AlaskanBallistics The .260 was the first I purchased and have killed more whitetail with it than any other caliber I own.
Shooting it you don't have a nickles worth of difference to the Creedmoor.
That's what I figured
Very interesting.
I used the 129 gr ABLR in my 260 Rem with H 4350 and got right at 2900 fps. I bet the 6.5-284 could get up to 3050 fps pretty easily with handloads. I thought hard about a lefty savage 116 stainless in 6.5-284 but the guy wanted too much for it. Great round in my opinion. My wife has a Tikka in 6.5x55 and it's a sweet set up too, loaded up to it's potential it is actually capable of more speed than the Creed or even 260. European companies load it up to a higher pressure compared to the American ones on average.
Yeah i agree, I'm getting 3050 with 127gr barnes lrx with rl22 (video on it) in my 6.5x284.
American companies don't want to be sued
I have been waiting for this video lol i will admit im a 6.5 creedmoor fan lol not ashamed at all to say its my favorite hunting caliber, not because its the most powerful round ever but because the opposite actually. Its very capable of elk and moose if youre a disciplined shooter and you can make good shots like all hunters should. But it shines in the fact that it has the mid range locked down tight in the fact that it has a very versatile grain range. Its not too small to shoot an elk or moose with a 143gr eld x or something of that grain range but its also not too big to shoot a 90gr vmax at a bobcat or coyote and not wreck the pelt. The norma is the same .264 cal bullet just faster so it would perform really similarly i would assume on a live elk or moose or be so closely matched in live game that there wouldnt be much noticable difference besides recoil. They both stopped in the same water jug, but the norma hit a little harder at impact. Also, it would be something probably pretty hard to find ammo in without buying brasd and reloading yourself. I dont have any 6.5 norma at my stores where i buy my 6.5 creedmoor. The creedmoor would be good for smallish to medium to big game while the normas more devastating initial impact would remove it from the varmint list due to it probably not being very fur friendly, even though it is the same .264 projectile. Thats just my 2 cents on the matter, if you just hunt big stuff or have money to not mind buying 2 seperate rifles for each task then get a norma if you have that ammo in your local stores. However, if you want to conserve money and only get one rifle that covers a larger spectrum of game then the 6.5CM would be a better option. Also like i mentioned i believe the creedmoor is an easier bullet to aquire at a store than the norma. With the 2020 election looming it is crucial to vote for your gun rights because if biden gets in he will make bullet sales online totally banned and rifle sales and even accessory sales like grips, lasers, stocks, chassis, anything gun related would be banned online and taxed ridiculously in stores.
Cool video
Thanks brother
I can't wait!!!!!!
Lol... patience
I have both an AR10 6.5 Creedmore and a Savage F Class 6.5 x 284 the CLass has a 30 inch tube and I got 3050 fps with 140 gr Berger match this is a great 1000 yard combo but barrel is shot out in 1000 to 1200 rounds. The best group I have shot is 6.84 inches at 1000 yards. The AR10 has a 24 inch barrel and I have shot under 4 inches at 600 yards. Both are great rounds.
Awesome Jay. Thanks for the info. What's your load? I've been running 127gr lrx for hunting over a Max charge of rl22 getting 3050 with 26" barrel.
Both of my 6.5x284 are my favorite rifles to shoot
How far have you stretched them out?
400 yards so far hopefully further
The new calibers while very similar to older cartridges are improvements over their older counterparts by use of fast twist barrels and modern throat/lead dimensions. As well as considerations obviously for modern short actions… this with modern bullets allows us to shoot longer ranges and often due to better throat and lead design with better accuracy.
That said, if you chamber and older cartridges with the longer throats in a fast twist barrel you may have no difference at all. Just the ammo for a 260rem will almost always be lighter bullets for the slow twist and seated shorter due to shorted throat. In a Creedmoor or PRC for example Bullets are heavier higher BC and seated out to make use of the standard chamber throat design….
My first 6.5 is being cut to 6.5x257 Roberts (x57) Ackley Improved (also known as 260 AAR) with a Rim cut for use of rimmed brass and a Creedmoor spec throat. Rim brass in my Encore as an option. So 257 Roberts +P or 7x57 brass and 7x57R brass as bass brass for conversion to AI. Also can start with 444 Marlin brass.. end result guys shooting nearly identical velocity to 6.5x284.
Why the funny cartridge? Simple just for fun…
And i hope you have loads of fun with it!
Can I get a Savage left handed bolt action in 6.5x284 Norma? Nope. But they have 6.5 Creedmoor...and I'm not a hunter so that works for me for long range shooting. Thanks for all the videos and hard work you put into them.
Yeah that'd be a rare bird the left hand
@@AlaskanBallistics I'm wrong-handed. Lol But I do love my left-handed Savage 10 BA Stealth in 6.5 Creedmoor.
Sweet I'm glad you love it. What c kind of groups are you getting?
@@AlaskanBallistics .75" groups but I'm sure, and they claim, its capable of half inch groups.
@@AlaskanBallistics Love the Hornady ELD Match 140 and 147gr ammo.
Can an Old School 6.5 whoop up on the Creedmoor? Every day of the week and twice on Sunday!
Lol yep
I had a 6mm/284 for a while. It pushed a 75gr Amax at 4109fps avg. Stoopid fast and did great damage to coyote pelts ...
How long did the barrel last?
@@AlaskanBallistics about 200 rounds. I bought it used and it wasn't great when I received it. I just finished it off to see what that caliber was capable of. Too bad it remained a wildcat. The 6mm-06 Would be very similar ballistically I think just in a long action.
Would love to get my hands on the 6.5/300 Weatherby also. I like overbored calibers even if they don't last long.
The fine print says the creedmoor achieves 2850+ fps out of a 28' barrel. (I saw it on the bottom of the cartridge box once)
Weird... I get most velocities with a 24" . 28 inch is crazy
Does the 6.5 Creedmoor use the same bullets/projectile as the 6.5 284 Norma? I have the Creedmoor and am thanking of getting the Norma and was wondering if I can use the same bullets/projectiles in my hand loads. Thank you for any information you can provide.
Yep...
@@AlaskanBallistics Thank you, and I liked and subscribed to both your channels, I love both guns and classical music a perfect combination in my opinion.
Bank you very much I've got to do more with the classical music channel I just don't have the time. Hopefully you'll like the anti gun control song I'm writing now
@@AlaskanBallistics Haha I most definitely will, I’ll be waiting. I’m listening to your music now great content definitely keep it up. 👍
Thank you so much!
What about 6.5 carcano round is that the same. always wondered about that old round
No clue about it
Interesting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you sir
How well does the 6.5-300 wby and 30-378 compare in terms of drop at 1000 yards against the 284 norma
I'm pretty sure they will do way less but both are barrel burners... meaning average barrel life is going to be 500 to 700 rounds for match grade accuracy
@@AlaskanBallistics my last option would be 338-378 Weatherby would you pick that over the 6.5 284 norma? I just want something that shoots very flat up to 1,000 yards for long range shooting.
If you're handloading it doesn't matter. But i can only find the Norma ammo on the shelf. So i I'd choose the Norma... plan on replacing barrel at 1600 to 1700 rounds though.
I've shot 1000 with a .308 it's not easy but doable.
Will be great to have a 6.5 CM vs 6.5 prc video and 270 win vs 6.5 prc
I plan on filming 6.5prc vs 6.5x284 vs 6.5 creedmoor this summer.
Also plan on doing 6.5x284 and 6.5prc vs 270win
My wife’s 6.5 Norma is the most accurate round that I ever reloaded for. I mean it liked just about every powder and projectile I put together.
Nice... what were some of your favorite loads
@@AlaskanBallistics my elk load for the 6.5 Norma is 155gr Lapua mega bullet with 47.5 gr HV100 OAL 2.913 and for prong horn 140 gr Berger VLD hunt with HV100 49 gr. OAL 3.050
This makes me want to investigate 129 ABLR vs 140 gold dot.
Hmm i wish i could find the gold dot load
Maybe some same calibre tests comparing different ammo
Only two things i could find alike in Alaska
🍻👍
How about comparing them both in a short action magazine rifle
Had what I had
@@AlaskanBallistics when my 270 barrel wears out I'm replacing it with 6.5 284 or 6.5 prc most likely. Be nice to see how those compare to a 280 rem though.
True. I wish i had a .280 rem to play with
Nosler started the premium bullet business with partitions. Now they have E tip all copper. Would like to see accubonds, vrs E Tip vrs Partition out of 284 Norma. Probably take too much time and effort, have to reload.
If you can find and send me the bullets!
@@AlaskanBallistics no promises, I'll see what I can do. California still sux for everything.
Lol so does Alaska
@@AlaskanBallistics I'll go shopping tomorrow, pickings are slim to none.
I understand
Don't forget the insane 6.5-300 Weatherby.
I know where I've is at and i like it, but I've got to get 300 win mag for the channel first
Heck, you coulda just ask me and I’d of grilled us some ribs!
Anytime
Really like my Norma and 140 gr accubonds for a deer round Never felt the need for the creedmoor and it’s not the magic wand some folks would like us to believe. I’d be reluctant to carry either in big bear country and there’s lots better elk and moose rounds.
Understand. My creedmoor did fine on a caribou though. Bigger than whitetail but smaller than elk
And I agree
Pretty surprised by that SD at 60 bucks a box, lower 48 price.
Agreed
How about a 243 video
I have a 6.5 vs 243 video already with gmx.
Personally I like the straight accubond better. In my Norma they’re a hammer on Whitetails
That's great. The regular accubond did not perform well for me on a caribou at 250 yards. .30-06 180gr loaded to about 2600.
But at shorter range and higher velocities i can see it working well
@@AlaskanBallistics I’ve shot em at 440 yards here and they folded right there with the Norma. Makes me wonder how batches of bullets vary
Me too.
Think they might be more heavily bonded in a 180gr .30-06
6.5-284N isn’t that old. It’s funny to hear it talked about as though it’s ancient. lol
Yeah 1970s for wildcatting is pretty old.. closer to 50 years
Test some sake super hammerhead and norma oryx
I've got the orynx on order with a store
The oryx is excellent. I am trying those next. I used a Woodleigh SPRN to take a deer this year and it broke apart, I’ve heard the oryx is tougher.
I don't remember the question exactly but I asked him a specific question several times last year and he never would answer me🤷
No bueno on the gun father!
CZcams probably blocked the comment. I'm sorry i didn't see it. Sorry my friend
CZcams deleted the comment you just left on my latest 10mm video
You mention the 6.5 Creedmoor versus 6.5 Norma x 284 Old School. The Norma came out in 1999. I've had the 6.5 x 55 Carl Gustaf since 1998 and it was introduced in the early 1890s. Calling the Norma old school is a misnomer.
Yeah I'm pretty sure it was wildcatted long before then, it's just older than the Creedmoor's popularity
@@AlaskanBallistics You are right. The parent case .284 Winchester was created around 1963, but did not see extensive commercial use. Having said that it's nowhere close to the early 1890s like the 6.5 x 55.
That's true. Too bad nobody owns the 6.5x55 up here for me to test
@@AlaskanBallistics I hear you. You test what you have.
I enjoy your channel. I made a cartridge review on the 6.5-284 if you want to check it out
Yeah send me a link via Instagram or MeWe
Looks like the Norma kicks a little harder
Not enough to notice for me
6.5 300 weatherby would be cool
If i can borrow a rifle, sure
A lot of deviation for a high dollar ammo.
True
At 4 bucks a round, I'll stick with creedmoore.
3 bucks but yeah handloader's caliber
@@AlaskanBallistics lol creedmoor cost just as much now!! My comment didn't age well.
Lol true
I'm loading rounds right now for about $0.80. Got the lapua brass when i traded for the gun
@@AlaskanBallistics that's good, if consider that an achievement as to what's going on right now. All the gouging resellers have tested my faith in humanity.
243 barnes vs gmx
At some point we'll do that
Should be cool
6.5 wby rpm
If i could afford a rifle I'd test it
PRC is a good bit better. All are good rounds
Wish i had one to play with
@@AlaskanBallistics Surely you have a 264 Win Mag accessible up there. If my info is accurate the 6.5 PRC only slightly exceeds the velocity of the "Old School" 264 Win.
Just a thought. Hornady has an old school offering still in their line up.
I know no one who has one
@@AlaskanBallistics bummer. 6.5 offerings are definitely enjoying a season of popularity.
True
The old ones are always better
Most of the time.
You keep saying old school, the 6.5X55 is the old school calibre and still better than both.
Cartridge was standardized in 1999 but was first wildcatted in the 1970s... much older than the creedmoor. Funny how the 6.5x55 swede is old but doesn't shoot any better or faster than the creedmoor for that case Capacity
@@AlaskanBallistics Yeah that is were you are wrong. The 6.5X55 is 130 years old, it was a low pressure cartridge back then. You can reload it higher than the creed, about 10-15% more velocity. It's very similar to the 6.5-284 in performance loaded to a modern pressure in a modern rifle. Also the creed is good for shorter barrels, 550mm. Where the 6.5X55 and 284 are tapered towards 650mm + barrels to utilise their extra capacity. A 600mm barrel is common for both because its a good medium for ergonomics and velocity, it is not the ideal length for a larger case capacity of the time proven 6.5. The original mauser 6.5X55 had a 760mm barrel and its velocity was on par with the creed. The swedes designed around efficiency. Look at the grendel, its not much slower than the creed with a lot less powder. That is because it has a similar length barrel usually and actually burns all its powder. So if you compare different capacity cases, you MUST account for different barrel lengths to make it a proper review of their intended bore to length ratio.
Isn’t a 284 Norma a long action? Is so why are you comparing a short action vs a long action....
Nope it's a tweener
Why compare long range cartridges at short range? Obviously the bigger cartridge, pushing the same bullet is going to beat the smaller cartridge. I don't think we need much convincing about that.
most people aren't even familiar with the 6.5-284, it's just to show the difference. You got a long range place I can film in Alaska that's not too far of a drive?
I just can't figure put why someone would even want to do this comparison.. its apples and oranges
Some people like to learn about cartridges. Almost all comparisons are apples to oranges
At the prices of those 🍎 apples and oranges 🍊 . I'm thankful you are paying for that fruit to bring us results that you do. Thank you.
You're welcome, we'll said.
the needmore is over rated
Ehh not if you use it for what it was designed for
Wasn't designed to be a speed demon, was designed as a low recoil drift friendly round. Able to stay on target for correction. With today's range finders and ballistics calculators bullet drop is a nonfactor. Bucking wind much more important. Kentucky windage is a thing of the past.