If you listen to some of these guys our arrows should have bounced off deer in the 90s and 2000s. Gold tip 5575 12grain insert 100grain broadhead 12 grain nock 375 grains total. A good Broadhead is more important than arrow weight
@@joshuadouglasarchery 😂 gotta give you a hard time. To be fair though 650 might be the bone breaking threshold, but at the same time you are suppose to shoot the heaviest arrow possible with the most acceptable trajectory. Some people just get caught up on stupid crap. For me 600 grains is normal with my 32” draw, but a normal sized guy will do fine with 450-500
@@longdrawarcher4857 I say if one guy gets the heaviest arrow possible with acceptable trajectory, and another guy gets the best trajectory possible with acceptable weight, both guys with get the same end results.
@@longdrawarcher4857I’m shooting a 400 grain arrow and a 440 grain arrow, 73lbs 28.5” draw and will do just fine with my T. rex arms I haven’t any issues yet.
Lol ranch fairy definitely advocates for accuracy, and even has multiple videos of him showcasing the best spot to aim for: the vital v. And to his credit as a surgeon he even shows the aftermath that his arrows do.
No sir it don't take much to kill a deer. I am a traditional bowhunter. 4 decades. I have shot through Elk with a longbow with 100gr 2 blades with relatively light arrows as for whitetail. Almost anything sharp that flies decent will blow right through them even from a tradbow. Shot placement and arrow flight is most important in that order. It is all hype.
For the love of God, Fowler shoots pigs at 20. Of course on balance a heavier arrow is going to be beneficial. Even Dudley admitted that he shoots 500+ on Elk. Elkshape shot heavier arrows on whitetail than he did on Elk. See a trend here. When you are shooting short distances it doesnt hurt you in terms of drop to be heavier. It helps you. Dudley doesnt shoot pigs at 20. Fowler doesnt shoot antelope at 77. No one can win this 'argument' because its apples arguing with oranges in terms of the hunt scene and the quarry. Why is everyone trying their hardest to be a bitch and fit in with a tribe when they probably agree on more than they disagree on. Its pathetic to watch.
I dont understand why if you choose heavier arrows everyone says you dont shoot accurate? I dont shoot crazy heavy but somewhere usually around 500 to 580g and the arrows broadhead tune and shoot really accurate. I really dont care what grain anyone shoots. Iv done my own testing actually killin shit and not shootin foam is why im where im at. I like accurate arrows and 2 holes.
I think I should Clarify, I never meant to imply that if you shoot heavy arrows that you’re not accurate. I more so mean that the guys who promote heavy arrows on CZcams tend to focus on arrow weight and builds more than shooting accurate with good form and being able to know your bow and how to tune it! If you can do both, good on ya!
People forget that a compound bow is twice as powerful as it needs to be to get the job done. The only way to introduce major limitations is to take it to the extremes (super heavy, super light, etc). With any reasonable setup, your choice of equipment is never going to be the limiting factor.
@@joshuadouglasarchery The other thing that people forget is that a compound bow is so easy to shoot, that guys with basically no interest in archery can hit the vitals every time from 40 yards. With a compound, you can be a greatly skilled archer, but if you are not an archer at all, you can still be a bow hunter no problem.
I have very long arms, and I do not like heavy arrows. I shoot negative front of center. 30" draw length, I shoot 60 pounds, with a 400 spine arrow, with a 100gr. glue-in point, cut at 28.5". No need for heavy arrows.
I highly dought you have negative FOC and hope you're joking or exagerating. You'd have to purposely build it that way with unnessesary weight in the back. That would be as unethical as it gets.
I went slightly heavier this year but really still pretty light. 450gr TAW, 28" carbon to carbon Black Eagle Carnivores, 42 gr brass insert, 125gr Swhacker hybrid. Still doing 277fps with my shorty draw length, and I can put them where they need to go, which is the most important part.
Some of us have been killing things with “heavy” arrows decades before you were born. XX75s and Camo Hunters had a heavier gpi than carbon and most broadheads were around 150 grains. Those arrows were in the 500 grain range and pass-throughs weren’t a problem. In fact it wasn’t even a question we asked our hunting partners l. Strangest part is we pulled that off with 50# bows generating a whopping 175 fps. Weird. There are undeniable facts when it comes to laws of the universe with regard to projectiles. Those laws are true no matter what you think. Don’t waste the potential to grow your channel with good content due to an arrogant presentation.
@@PoeOutdoors wasn’t a problem when beman came out with carbon arrows either. Didn’t even hear about penetration problems til mechanical broadheads became popular. A 650grain arrow at 220fps (69.87ft-lbs) has less kinetic energy than a 400grain at 300fps (79.95ft-lbs). Also your 500grain at 175fps was 34ft-lbs
I still don't understand where people get the heavy arrow guys don't preach tuning and accuracy thing. Especially the mechanical guys who say this. Since mechs were kind of designed so you can get an untuned bow to shoot with your field tips.
I decided to go heavy 3 years ago. Havent looked back. Simply wanted pass thru. My shots stay under 35 yd while hunting. Lose some speed but not enuff to change my mind. Any thing past 40 it drops incredibly fast
It would be more interesting to do a similar build but with a RIP XV where the 300 spine only weighs 7 GPI. You could probably build a 350 spine with negative FOC pretty easy with that shaft and be under 400 grains.
That’s fantastic you’ve never made a bad shot and lost an animal. But not everyone is that fortunate. I watch videos from both sides and personally land in the middle. But I don’t recall anyone saying you need to shoot heavy arrows. I think they’re making a point for “plan b” so if that does happen. I’m a horrible archer that didn’t practice enough I guess and put a sevr right in shoulder last year. Deer lived. But made me wonder if a heavy arrow would have gotten that deer on my wall seeing I’m not a perfect human….
I'm building some amazon arrows and need an opinion. 50gr insert and 125gr point or 75gr insert and 100gr point? I think it comes down to availability of points. Seems 100gr has more selection. Your thoughts?
There is definitely more options with 100 grains heads but if you know what broadhead you want to run and it has a 125 option then I would use that, I figure more weight might mean more structural integrity!
@joshuadouglasarchery got Pinals. 46 bucks ready to shoot .003 straightness advertised. Since I'm still adjusting draw weight and playing with draw length I decided to keep it cheap but still play with foc. Coming in at 475gr with 100gr points. 10gr heavier than my Blackout X5 with 125 points
My son shot his first deer last year with a 390 grain arrow out of a 55lb 2014 pse dna sp. he used an annihilator xl and the arrow blew right through the deer no problem.
Joshua, how many sessions do you practice a year? Not how many arrows, how many sessions? Some one asked me this and i thought about it and i told them about 15. I feel like i practice way more than i used to and i think most archery hunters are more like i used to be: practice two or threee times before season and then thats good enough and assume bh shoot same as fp.
Hey there! Honestly a great question, I would say that number is in the high 200s, maybe pushing low 300s. I try to shoot everyday, if I’m looking to just be capable in the woods i definitely don’t need to shoot that much, but it’s a passion for me and I use it as more of a stress reliever!
Great video, never really cared much about how heavy my Arrow is. Most of my arrows are 425 grains and I practice 5 to 7 days a week €30-€50 each day and I believe the most important thing is practice practice practice, and trying to be as accurate as possible. Another great video!
Great video addressing the heavy/light arrow debate. It would be interesting to see what arrow you shoot the best in terms of average group size. I actually shot a speed bow better than a target bow in terms of group sizes at 50 yards and shot best with higher FOC (17%) on a mid-weight arrow (460 grains). I went from a micro-diameter arrow (best groups) to a 2317 in my tests. Just for fun, I'm gonna hunt Wisconsin whitetails this fall with the 2317 arrow (more like a log) and a 125 grain broadhead. Also, check out what Randy Ulmer says about arrow weight, speed, and FOC. He is a bit more measured in his assessments but does shoot a heavier arrow than normal and considers FOC important in arrow flight. Thanks for the fine content.
Really like the testing but im not at all surprised you broke a arrow id absolutely except it to happen more..now me being a bit older i really don't understand the speed craze or the expandable broadhead stuff ..i remember when 240 was fast and we never had problems killing deer at 40 yrds .that being said i huny in the woods not out west or food plots so no need for supper speed
350grains(IBO 70#bow) at 280FPS kills Whitetails all day long. Don't shoot bad shot angles. Get some 3D experience. Hitting the Bulls Eye works every time for me. Vented fixed 3 blade or slide back 3 blade mechanicals like a meatseeker with a seal instead of a rubber band. I shot 26" 2013 Easton Superlights with 65 Grain Wolverines years ago. (325 grains with carbon Insert) 280FPS is a little conservative. Probably closer to 290 FPS. Very little FOC. 65 Grain Field point during 3D Season. Switch to Wolverines to hunt. Use seals instead of rubber bands. Only shoot Mechanicals out of a Fast Setup. I'd recommend 300 FPS. Nothing less than 280FPS or you're asking for problems. Don't use Mechanicals on slow heavy arrows. My scores went up when I came with the smoke. I can't afford those expensive Designer Broadheads and Arrows. I try to keep the cost of each hunting arrow below 15$. 80$ Arrows are only as good as the shooter. Cool Vid. Good Luck this Season and God Bless, C.
If you listen to some of these guys our arrows should have bounced off deer in the 90s and 2000s. Gold tip 5575 12grain insert 100grain broadhead 12 grain nock 375 grains total. A good Broadhead is more important than arrow weight
Absolutely!!
It’s always the guys with little arms that hate heavy arrows
Cmon man, talking draw length with “longdrawarcher,” is like getting boxed out by shaq…it’s a battle im bound to lose 😂😭
@@joshuadouglasarchery 😂 gotta give you a hard time. To be fair though 650 might be the bone breaking threshold, but at the same time you are suppose to shoot the heaviest arrow possible with the most acceptable trajectory.
Some people just get caught up on stupid crap. For me 600 grains is normal with my 32” draw, but a normal sized guy will do fine with 450-500
@@longdrawarcher4857 I say if one guy gets the heaviest arrow possible with acceptable trajectory, and another guy gets the best trajectory possible with acceptable weight, both guys with get the same end results.
@@longdrawarcher4857I’m shooting a 400 grain arrow and a 440 grain arrow, 73lbs 28.5” draw and will do just fine with my T. rex arms I haven’t any issues yet.
Lol ranch fairy definitely advocates for accuracy, and even has multiple videos of him showcasing the best spot to aim for: the vital v. And to his credit as a surgeon he even shows the aftermath that his arrows do.
No sir it don't take much to kill a deer. I am a traditional bowhunter. 4 decades. I have shot through Elk with a longbow with 100gr 2 blades with relatively light arrows as for whitetail. Almost anything sharp that flies decent will blow right through them even from a tradbow. Shot placement and arrow flight is most important in that order. It is all hype.
For the love of God, Fowler shoots pigs at 20. Of course on balance a heavier arrow is going to be beneficial. Even Dudley admitted that he shoots 500+ on Elk. Elkshape shot heavier arrows on whitetail than he did on Elk. See a trend here. When you are shooting short distances it doesnt hurt you in terms of drop to be heavier. It helps you. Dudley doesnt shoot pigs at 20. Fowler doesnt shoot antelope at 77. No one can win this 'argument' because its apples arguing with oranges in terms of the hunt scene and the quarry. Why is everyone trying their hardest to be a bitch and fit in with a tribe when they probably agree on more than they disagree on. Its pathetic to watch.
I dont understand why if you choose heavier arrows everyone says you dont shoot accurate? I dont shoot crazy heavy but somewhere usually around 500 to 580g and the arrows broadhead tune and shoot really accurate. I really dont care what grain anyone shoots. Iv done my own testing actually killin shit and not shootin foam is why im where im at. I like accurate arrows and 2 holes.
I think I should Clarify, I never meant to imply that if you shoot heavy arrows that you’re not accurate.
I more so mean that the guys who promote heavy arrows on CZcams tend to focus on arrow weight and builds more than shooting accurate with good form and being able to know your bow and how to tune it!
If you can do both, good on ya!
People forget that a compound bow is twice as powerful as it needs to be to get the job done. The only way to introduce major limitations is to take it to the extremes (super heavy, super light, etc). With any reasonable setup, your choice of equipment is never going to be the limiting factor.
Very well said!
@@joshuadouglasarchery The other thing that people forget is that a compound bow is so easy to shoot, that guys with basically no interest in archery can hit the vitals every time from 40 yards. With a compound, you can be a greatly skilled archer, but if you are not an archer at all, you can still be a bow hunter no problem.
I have very long arms, and I do not like heavy arrows. I shoot negative front of center. 30" draw length, I shoot 60 pounds, with a 400 spine arrow, with a 100gr. glue-in point, cut at 28.5". No need for heavy arrows.
I highly dought you have negative FOC and hope you're joking or exagerating. You'd have to purposely build it that way with unnessesary weight in the back. That would be as unethical as it gets.
@@douglasvaughn9530 It is close. With a lighted knock, I am in the single digits for FOC. With a standard nock, I just hit 10%.
Not even close to negative foc. You have a very standard arrow that has been standardized as a positive foc arrow for a reason.
I went slightly heavier this year but really still pretty light. 450gr TAW, 28" carbon to carbon Black Eagle Carnivores, 42 gr brass insert, 125gr Swhacker hybrid. Still doing 277fps with my shorty draw length, and I can put them where they need to go, which is the most important part.
Sounds like a killer setup!!
Some of us have been killing things with “heavy” arrows decades before you were born. XX75s and Camo Hunters had a heavier gpi than carbon and most broadheads were around 150 grains. Those arrows were in the 500 grain range and pass-throughs weren’t a problem. In fact it wasn’t even a question we asked our hunting partners l. Strangest part is we pulled that off with 50# bows generating a whopping 175 fps. Weird.
There are undeniable facts when it comes to laws of the universe with regard to projectiles. Those laws are true no matter what you think.
Don’t waste the potential to grow your channel with good content due to an arrogant presentation.
@@PoeOutdoors wasn’t a problem when beman came out with carbon arrows either. Didn’t even hear about penetration problems til mechanical broadheads became popular. A 650grain arrow at 220fps (69.87ft-lbs) has less kinetic energy than a 400grain at 300fps (79.95ft-lbs). Also your 500grain at 175fps was 34ft-lbs
@@HolledelMomentum is more important than K.E. Run those numbers.
@@HolledelKenetic energy doesn't mean much when talking about arrows and penetration. Calculate momentum, it's a better comparison for penetration.
@@scottfrederick8299 well for momentum the arrow has to stop.
@@HolledelWell bless your little heart and thumping gizzard.
I still don't understand where people get the heavy arrow guys don't preach tuning and accuracy thing.
Especially the mechanical guys who say this. Since mechs were kind of designed so you can get an untuned bow to shoot with your field tips.
I decided to go heavy 3 years ago. Havent looked back. Simply wanted pass thru. My shots stay under 35 yd while hunting. Lose some speed but not enuff to change my mind. Any thing past 40 it drops incredibly fast
Just completely glosses over the fact the an arrow self destructed simply hitting foam 😂😂😂
They called me a madman…
3:15 made me laugh so hard. I am on the light arrow side.
It would be more interesting to do a similar build but with a RIP XV where the 300 spine only weighs 7 GPI. You could probably build a 350 spine with negative FOC pretty easy with that shaft and be under 400 grains.
I might have to do that!
@@joshuadouglasarchery Then RF would REALLY hate you. Especially if you used a mech.
Use a 3dhv
@@longrangeredneck13353dhv is same shaft as the RIP XV but with nock bushings and no inserts
I would rather have the speed for less time for animal to react and smaller amount of drop if yardage changes
That’s fantastic you’ve never made a bad shot and lost an animal. But not everyone is that fortunate. I watch videos from both sides and personally land in the middle. But I don’t recall anyone saying you need to shoot heavy arrows. I think they’re making a point for “plan b” so if that does happen. I’m a horrible archer that didn’t practice enough I guess and put a sevr right in shoulder last year. Deer lived. But made me wonder if a heavy arrow would have gotten that deer on my wall seeing I’m not a perfect human….
I'm building some amazon arrows and need an opinion. 50gr insert and 125gr point or 75gr insert and 100gr point? I think it comes down to availability of points. Seems 100gr has more selection. Your thoughts?
There is definitely more options with 100 grains heads but if you know what broadhead you want to run and it has a 125 option then I would use that, I figure more weight might mean more structural integrity!
@joshuadouglasarchery got Pinals. 46 bucks ready to shoot .003 straightness advertised. Since I'm still adjusting draw weight and playing with draw length I decided to keep it cheap but still play with foc. Coming in at 475gr with 100gr points. 10gr heavier than my Blackout X5 with 125 points
The veins are the only thing keeping it from tumbling like an ax
My son shot his first deer last year with a 390 grain arrow out of a 55lb 2014 pse dna sp. he used an annihilator xl and the arrow blew right through the deer no problem.
Sounds like he’s a straight killer, gotta love it!
Joshua, how many sessions do you practice a year? Not how many arrows, how many sessions? Some one asked me this and i thought about it and i told them about 15. I feel like i practice way more than i used to and i think most archery hunters are more like i used to be: practice two or threee times before season and then thats good enough and assume bh shoot same as fp.
With todays bows, releases, and consistancy, it doesn't take that much practice to be decent if you know a few basic things that keep you consistent.
Hey there! Honestly a great question, I would say that number is in the high 200s, maybe pushing low 300s.
I try to shoot everyday, if I’m looking to just be capable in the woods i definitely don’t need to shoot that much, but it’s a passion for me and I use it as more of a stress reliever!
Great video, never really cared much about how heavy my Arrow is. Most of my arrows are 425 grains and I practice 5 to 7 days a week €30-€50 each day and I believe the most important thing is practice practice practice, and trying to be as accurate as possible.
Another great video!
I appreciate it brother!
Great video addressing the heavy/light arrow debate. It would be interesting to see what arrow you shoot the best in terms of average group size. I actually shot a speed bow better than a target bow in terms of group sizes at 50 yards and shot best with higher FOC (17%) on a mid-weight arrow (460 grains). I went from a micro-diameter arrow (best groups) to a 2317 in my tests. Just for fun, I'm gonna hunt Wisconsin whitetails this fall with the 2317 arrow (more like a log) and a 125 grain broadhead. Also, check out what Randy Ulmer says about arrow weight, speed, and FOC. He is a bit more measured in his assessments but does shoot a heavier arrow than normal and considers FOC important in arrow flight. Thanks for the fine content.
I will make sure to check it out! Thank you for the support bossman!
I think you gonna smoke a giant with that thing, like dead center of the heart, and i dare the deer to catch it 😂😂😂
😂😂
Whats a good budget single pin slider sight
I’m pretty sure CBE makes a tactic single pin! I have the three pin on my backup and love it!
Really like the testing but im not at all surprised you broke a arrow id absolutely except it to happen more..now me being a bit older i really don't understand the speed craze or the expandable broadhead stuff ..i remember when 240 was fast and we never had problems killing deer at 40 yrds .that being said i huny in the woods not out west or food plots so no need for supper speed
love your channel!!! what binoculars do you got?
Currently using the Leupold Makenzies 10x42! I really like them and haven’t ran into any problems!
@@joshuadouglasarchery I have those exact ones they are really nice
Heavy arrows are gay.
I read that in a Shane Gillis voice in my head and started laughing by myself in my truck.
@@joshuadouglasarchery my opponents gay!
Let's go! 🏹
Yessir!!!
Speed=good cutting power=good penetration=MegaMeat mechanical=huge blood trails=recovery
You=wrong
you=don't have a clue what you're talking about
350grains(IBO 70#bow) at 280FPS kills Whitetails all day long. Don't shoot bad shot angles. Get some 3D experience. Hitting the Bulls Eye works every time for me. Vented fixed 3 blade or slide back 3 blade mechanicals like a meatseeker with a seal instead of a rubber band. I shot 26" 2013 Easton Superlights with 65 Grain Wolverines years ago. (325 grains with carbon Insert) 280FPS is a little conservative. Probably closer to 290 FPS. Very little FOC. 65 Grain Field point during 3D Season. Switch to Wolverines to hunt. Use seals instead of rubber bands. Only shoot Mechanicals out of a Fast Setup. I'd recommend 300 FPS. Nothing less than 280FPS or you're asking for problems. Don't use Mechanicals on slow heavy arrows. My scores went up when I came with the smoke. I can't afford those expensive Designer Broadheads and Arrows. I try to keep the cost of each hunting arrow below 15$. 80$ Arrows are only as good as the shooter. Cool Vid. Good Luck this Season and God Bless, C.