Beugels tbv Meyer Burger zonnepanelen op dak ontbreekt niet gemonteerd..geïnstalleerd door Zongeschikt BV in Dordrecht Bedrijf gebelt en foto's opgestuurd via e mail maar geen reactie tot nu toe..onverantwoord situatie.
great to hear that the plant will be in Arizona soon. +1 Also, I really appreciate that you added those all important questions about how they will actually sell the panels, who they will sell yo and how to get in touch with them.
There should be another category added to compare the panels for example power output per square inch or mitre of area. That will compare apples to apples.
100% agree. This can be calculated, but it's a shame, IMO, that manufacturers aren't competing with this metric. I think an argument could be made that for some homeowners, this metric is more important than many others.
Panel companies hate that, BTW there is a simple number that includes want you want it is called "efficiency" . Here we see a lot of talk, no numbers no price no nothing.
@edmundzed9870 efficiency doesn't reflect frame size, though, correct? If not, just ⅛" thicker frame would add nearly 5" with a 20 panel wide array. That's certainly enough to make a difference in some designs.
@@ThomMurphy Well don't quite understand what you are saying, 20 % = 20 % so a panel with a efficiency equal to another but which is 10 % larger, will put out 10 % more energy. It is pretty much the definition of the word "efficiency".
@edmundzed9870 a panel's efficiency is rated at the efficiency of the panel. The surround of the panel is not reflected in the number. If a (hypothetical) panel has a surround that is ⅛" and another (hypothetical) panel has a surround that is 2", and they are otherwise the same size more of the panels with the ⅛" surrounds may be able to fit into a particular space. In some instances, choosing a panel that's less efficient but has a smaller surround may result in more production, a.k.a total efficiency for a particular space, because more of the less efficient panels would fit into that particular space. Basically, efficiency isn't really a number that directly shows "power output per square inch," as the surround isn't represented in the efficiency number. The impact of the surround size can be significant, especially when "efficiency" is being considered because space is limited. Manufacturers don't share a number that directly represents "power output per square inch," including the surround, but rather the efficiency of the solar cells. There is a surprising amount of difference in panel surround sizes. Panels' surrounds can add up quickly as the number is a bit more than double when 2 panels are butted up against each other.
Panels that have good temperature coefficients are definitely better panels to buy, because most rooftop temperatures are going to be 100 degrees Fahrenheit or more especially in the summertime when the sunlight is more abundant.
Great presentation. That girl is worthy of a lot of compensation. Sounds like the ole STC rating will become a poor metric for comparison. We need a test standard at varying irradiances and temperatures. However, that would be prohibitively expensive. Maybe a single testing lab that manufactures would send their panels to for testing. Similar to how cars are rated in crash tests.
Datasheets are 404 not found There are sunlight maps to show you what level of sunlight you can expect in your area. For example if Sun averages 1000W/ m^2 and your area receives 600W/ m^2 then your 400W panel is a 240W panel (on average).
No, they're not even close to adequate, IMO. They said, several times, something along the lines of "it's important to understand time and temperature", but failed to satisfactorily explain them or their relevance. They also a poor job explaining degradation and production over time across a day and years. Also, they tried explaining degradation over time with an imaginary graph but poorly set the parameters of the graph and drew imaginary lines and set points (with her hands) from her perspective (in Western culture), rather than the perspective of the person (or people) she was presenting to. Additionally, she gave just flat wrong information, such as their panels performing "their best" rather than relatively better, at higher temperatures. If this was their first time doing this and it isn't their job, like someone got sick and they were filling in, then they did an adequate job. Otherwise, IMO, they need a lot more training and practice. This isn't to say that for folks that understand these things that the presentation didn't make sense, or that it didn't have value. It was fine for someone who understands these things, just not so much for the typical consumer and there is plenty of room for improvement even when presented to those otherwise familiar.
Huge panels aren’t always better unless they’re on a ground mount. Roof space is often limited and more efficient panels are better on limited roof space.
@@MrDontcareify True. I sell a lot of ground mounts though. Up north, where the sun sets behind the rows, bifacial panels are amazing on a ground mount.
Hi Joe, I am planning on replacing my roofs (I have the house, two patios, and a storage unit) with groups of GAF's Timberline solar shingles. Are you going to review them? My main attraction is you can walk on them. However, since there are several small panels in large rectangular groups (each shingle is 64" x 17" or, is that just the solar part?), I want to learn/know how they are connected and if you have a single string inverter or are there several string inverters, one for each group. In listening to one salesman at a convention, he said there is an advantage to having multiple small panels grouped together. Please explain that.
Ik heb 10x Meyer Burger zonnepanelen laten monteren door Zongeschicht BV in Dordrecht 10 maanden geleden en ivm reinigen van zonnepanelen komt ik achter dat aantal beugels ontbreekt..ik heb de Zongeschicht BV gebelt en foto's opgestuurd maar wil niet meer reageren..wie kan mij helpen met de onverantwoord werk van Zongeschicht BV...
You´d freak out of what is happening in Mexico, effectively is a cinese dumping of their utility scale panels, extremely cheap, and most companies are installing 550/600W panels on residential roofs =/
Interesting, so I assume REC puts their own touches on what they got from Meyer Burger, would be interesting to hear what those tweeks are. I was going to go with REC but if I can wait a bit, I wonder what the difference in underlying tech is.
REC does the total module manufacturing where Meyer Burger owns a specific step of the cell manufacturing only. The REC panel overall is a fine product. I wouldn’t necessarily wait for one over the other.
Sorry Michelle, Sanyo, which is now Panasonic, invented Hetro Junction solar cells almost 20 years ago. Im not saying you guys don’t make a good product but passing HJT as Meyer Burger’s technology is patently false.
yep I was thinking exactly this when I heard her talk about HJT. I was like "huh?" For that reason alone, I would not consider buying Meyer Burger panels. I guess thanks goes to Joe for helping me eliminate a choice for consideration and making the process easier LOL.
Guys..... HJT was invented in the early 80"s buy some Japanese smart dudes. It was first commercialized by Sanyo with their 170W 14.4% module in 1997. Later Panasonic purchased them as we all know. In 1999 it was Meyer Burger that designed/patented the diamond blade saw technology and machines today most companies use for both PERC and HJ Cells. Then Meyer Burger heavily invested R&D into the HJ Technology inventing all the tools and production machinery to perfect it raising the efficiency to what it is today. The former Panasonic and now REC Manufacturing production lines are all Meyer Burgers products. MB is the only "tooling" manufacture to embrace HJT for the last couple decades and now moved 100% into using their talents and investments toward their own Module not selling their technology protected by their over 40 patents in solar perfecting both PERC and HJT. My first modules installed were 100 Watts with efficiency around 11%. That was 2002. PV of course invented in the 50's. It is investment of R&D on the tech but of course it can only be made with the right tools from the tool shed. I will put my money on the Swiss and Germans all day long for ingenuity and perfection of quality. Here is a great video on their company: video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=mcafee&ei=UTF-8&p=Meyer+Burger+Company+Video&type=E211US0G0#id=2&vid=c2a04bbae66d773ac7dcc8a906276768&action=click
A little HJT History: HJT was invented in the early 80"s buy some Japanese smart dudes. It was first commercialized by Sanyo with their 170W 14.4% module in 1997. Later Panasonic purchased them as we all know. In 1999 it was Meyer Burger that designed/patented the diamond blade saw technology and machines today most companies use for both PERC and HJ Cells. Then Meyer Burger heavily invested R&D into the HJ Technology inventing all the tools and production machinery to perfect it raising the efficiency to what it is today. The former Panasonic and now REC Manufacturing production lines are all Meyer Burgers products. MB is the only "tooling" manufacture to embrace HJT for the last couple decades and now moved 100% into using their talents and investments toward their own Module not selling their technology protected by their over 40 patents in solar perfecting both PERC and HJT. My first modules installed were 100 Watts with efficiency around 11%. That was 2002. PV of course invented in the 50's. It is investment of R&D on the tech but of course it can only be made with the right tools from the tool shed. I will put my money on the Swiss and Germans all day long for ingenuity and perfection of quality. Same reason my old dirt bike and now Adventure Touring bike is made by KTM in Austria! Best quality there is. Here is a great video on their company: video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=mcafee&ei=UTF-8&p=Meyer+Burger+Company+Video&type=E211US0G0#id=2&vid=c2a04bbae66d773ac7dcc8a906276768&action=click
The Tier rating is meaningless when comparing the quality and performance of different panels. Panasonic HK's are rebranded REC Alphas.. they're literally the exact same panels.. but REC is considered Tier 1 where as Panasonic is not.
In the real world, you get more usable kWh from this panel compared to a standard panel. The Meyer Burger degradation rate is lower and the temperature coefficient allows more production in extreme heat conditions.
The price is going to fluctuate depending on the country, state, and distribution channel. I would expect the price in the US to be right on par with REC.
My installer upgraded us to Meyer Burger! I thought they were cheaper but very happy after all that they did!
That's a great upgrade if they didn't charge you extra!
Beugels tbv Meyer Burger zonnepanelen op dak ontbreekt niet gemonteerd..geïnstalleerd door Zongeschikt BV in Dordrecht
Bedrijf gebelt en foto's opgestuurd via e mail maar geen reactie tot nu toe..onverantwoord situatie.
Waar kan ik aanklacht indienen door nalatigheid van deze zonnepanelen Bedrijf Zongeschikt BV.
great to hear that the plant will be in Arizona soon. +1 Also, I really appreciate that you added those all important questions about how they will actually sell the panels, who they will sell yo and how to get in touch with them.
Yep, Sanyo first developed the HJT back in the early 80s, some 40 years ago!
There should be another category added to compare the panels for example power output per square inch or mitre of area. That will compare apples to apples.
100% agree. This can be calculated, but it's a shame, IMO, that manufacturers aren't competing with this metric.
I think an argument could be made that for some homeowners, this metric is more important than many others.
Panel companies hate that, BTW there is a simple number that includes want you want it is called "efficiency" .
Here we see a lot of talk, no numbers no price no nothing.
@edmundzed9870 efficiency doesn't reflect frame size, though, correct? If not, just ⅛" thicker frame would add nearly 5" with a 20 panel wide array. That's certainly enough to make a difference in some designs.
@@ThomMurphy Well don't quite understand what you are saying, 20 % = 20 % so a panel with a efficiency equal to another but which is 10 % larger, will put out 10 % more energy. It is pretty much the definition of the word "efficiency".
@edmundzed9870 a panel's efficiency is rated at the efficiency of the panel. The surround of the panel is not reflected in the number. If a (hypothetical) panel has a surround that is ⅛" and another (hypothetical) panel has a surround that is 2", and they are otherwise the same size more of the panels with the ⅛" surrounds may be able to fit into a particular space. In some instances, choosing a panel that's less efficient but has a smaller surround may result in more production, a.k.a total efficiency for a particular space, because more of the less efficient panels would fit into that particular space.
Basically, efficiency isn't really a number that directly shows "power output per square inch," as the surround isn't represented in the efficiency number. The impact of the surround size can be significant, especially when "efficiency" is being considered because space is limited. Manufacturers don't share a number that directly represents "power output per square inch," including the surround, but rather the efficiency of the solar cells. There is a surprising amount of difference in panel surround sizes. Panels' surrounds can add up quickly as the number is a bit more than double when 2 panels are butted up against each other.
The best panel meets your budget and requirements.
Panels that have good temperature coefficients are definitely better panels to buy, because most rooftop temperatures are going to be 100 degrees Fahrenheit or more especially in the summertime when the sunlight is more abundant.
Great presentation. That girl is worthy of a lot of compensation.
Sounds like the ole STC rating will become a poor metric for comparison. We need a test standard at varying irradiances and temperatures. However, that would be prohibitively expensive. Maybe a single testing lab that manufactures would send their panels to for testing. Similar to how cars are rated in crash tests.
Datasheets are 404 not found
There are sunlight maps to show you what level of sunlight you can expect in your area.
For example if Sun averages 1000W/ m^2 and your area receives 600W/ m^2
then your 400W panel is a 240W panel (on average).
She's a great presenter for her company's product!
She has no comfort in sharing costs.
No, they're not even close to adequate, IMO. They said, several times, something along the lines of "it's important to understand time and temperature", but failed to satisfactorily explain them or their relevance. They also a poor job explaining degradation and production over time across a day and years. Also, they tried explaining degradation over time with an imaginary graph but poorly set the parameters of the graph and drew imaginary lines and set points (with her hands) from her perspective (in Western culture), rather than the perspective of the person (or people) she was presenting to. Additionally, she gave just flat wrong information, such as their panels performing "their best" rather than relatively better, at higher temperatures.
If this was their first time doing this and it isn't their job, like someone got sick and they were filling in, then they did an adequate job. Otherwise, IMO, they need a lot more training and practice.
This isn't to say that for folks that understand these things that the presentation didn't make sense, or that it didn't have value. It was fine for someone who understands these things, just not so much for the typical consumer and there is plenty of room for improvement even when presented to those otherwise familiar.
I'd like to know more about Green Watts solar panels. They're huge and over 600W+! The 395W is kind of low these days.
Huge panels aren’t always better unless they’re on a ground mount.
Roof space is often limited and more efficient panels are better on limited roof space.
@@MrDontcareify True. I sell a lot of ground mounts though. Up north, where the sun sets behind the rows, bifacial panels are amazing on a ground mount.
OF COURSE!!!
not in a million years will i think when i hear the name "Meyer Burger" that they are selling solar instead of burger.
What about Canadian Solar compare to Meyer Burger???
Canadian engineering vs. German Engineering... please... lol
Hi Joe,
I am planning on replacing my roofs (I have the house, two patios, and a storage unit) with groups of GAF's Timberline solar shingles. Are you going to review them?
My main attraction is you can walk on them.
However, since there are several small panels in large rectangular groups (each shingle is 64" x 17" or, is that just the solar part?), I want to learn/know how they are connected and if you have a single string inverter or are there several string inverters, one for each group.
In listening to one salesman at a convention, he said there is an advantage to having multiple small panels grouped together. Please explain that.
Ik heb 10x Meyer Burger zonnepanelen laten monteren door Zongeschicht BV in Dordrecht 10 maanden geleden en ivm reinigen van zonnepanelen komt ik achter dat aantal beugels ontbreekt..ik heb de Zongeschicht BV gebelt en foto's opgestuurd maar wil niet meer reageren..wie kan mij helpen met de onverantwoord werk van Zongeschicht BV...
Great panels!
How do they perform in cold weather, 30°f to -40°f, like in North Dakota winters?
Very good performance in extreme cold weather as well.
You´d freak out of what is happening in Mexico, effectively is a cinese dumping of their utility scale panels, extremely cheap, and most companies are installing 550/600W panels on residential roofs =/
Interesting, so I assume REC puts their own touches on what they got from Meyer Burger, would be interesting to hear what those tweeks are. I was going to go with REC but if I can wait a bit, I wonder what the difference in underlying tech is.
REC does the total module manufacturing where Meyer Burger owns a specific step of the cell manufacturing only. The REC panel overall is a fine product. I wouldn’t necessarily wait for one over the other.
@@SolarSurge ah thank you for the clarification 😊 love learning from your channel. Keep up the great work.
Sorry Michelle, Sanyo, which is now Panasonic, invented Hetro Junction solar cells almost 20 years ago. Im not saying you guys don’t make a good product but passing HJT as Meyer Burger’s technology is patently false.
yep I was thinking exactly this when I heard her talk about HJT. I was like "huh?" For that reason alone, I would not consider buying Meyer Burger panels. I guess thanks goes to Joe for helping me eliminate a choice for consideration and making the process easier LOL.
Guys..... HJT was invented in the early 80"s buy some Japanese smart dudes. It was first commercialized by Sanyo with their 170W 14.4% module in 1997. Later Panasonic purchased them as we all know. In 1999 it was Meyer Burger that designed/patented the diamond blade saw technology and machines today most companies use for both PERC and HJ Cells. Then Meyer Burger heavily invested R&D into the HJ Technology inventing all the tools and production machinery to perfect it raising the efficiency to what it is today. The former Panasonic and now REC Manufacturing production lines are all Meyer Burgers products. MB is the only "tooling" manufacture to embrace HJT for the last couple decades and now moved 100% into using their talents and investments toward their own Module not selling their technology protected by their over 40 patents in solar perfecting both PERC and HJT.
My first modules installed were 100 Watts with efficiency around 11%. That was 2002. PV of course invented in the 50's. It is investment of R&D on the tech but of course it can only be made with the right tools from the tool shed. I will put my money on the Swiss and Germans all day long for ingenuity and perfection of quality. Here is a great video on their company: video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=mcafee&ei=UTF-8&p=Meyer+Burger+Company+Video&type=E211US0G0#id=2&vid=c2a04bbae66d773ac7dcc8a906276768&action=click
A little HJT History:
HJT was invented in the early 80"s buy some Japanese smart dudes. It was first commercialized by Sanyo with their 170W 14.4% module in 1997. Later Panasonic purchased them as we all know. In 1999 it was Meyer Burger that designed/patented the diamond blade saw technology and machines today most companies use for both PERC and HJ Cells. Then Meyer Burger heavily invested R&D into the HJ Technology inventing all the tools and production machinery to perfect it raising the efficiency to what it is today. The former Panasonic and now REC Manufacturing production lines are all Meyer Burgers products. MB is the only "tooling" manufacture to embrace HJT for the last couple decades and now moved 100% into using their talents and investments toward their own Module not selling their technology protected by their over 40 patents in solar perfecting both PERC and HJT.
My first modules installed were 100 Watts with efficiency around 11%. That was 2002. PV of course invented in the 50's. It is investment of R&D on the tech but of course it can only be made with the right tools from the tool shed. I will put my money on the Swiss and Germans all day long for ingenuity and perfection of quality. Same reason my old dirt bike and now Adventure Touring bike is made by KTM in Austria! Best quality there is.
Here is a great video on their company: video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=mcafee&ei=UTF-8&p=Meyer+Burger+Company+Video&type=E211US0G0#id=2&vid=c2a04bbae66d773ac7dcc8a906276768&action=click
With these panels do you recommend enphase or solar edge?
Either will work, but I prefer Enphase.
The Tier rating is meaningless when comparing the quality and performance of different panels. Panasonic HK's are rebranded REC Alphas.. they're literally the exact same panels.. but REC is considered Tier 1 where as Panasonic is not.
No installers in FL?
We install in all of Florida. Please use the website to book a call www.solarsurge.net
In the real world, how does it perform vs other manufacturers, and over time? Do a video on that.
In the real world, you get more usable kWh from this panel compared to a standard panel. The Meyer Burger degradation rate is lower and the temperature coefficient allows more production in extreme heat conditions.
@@SolarSurge Would love to see numbers behind the claim.
WITH AT LEAST TEN NEW SOLAR PANELS , WHICH ONE IS BEST ???
Started good but started to feel more like sales BS at the end,
I’m going to miss Lydia
A big red flag that she had zero comfort talking about price, so much so she avoided it near completely.
The price is going to fluctuate depending on the country, state, and distribution channel. I would expect the price in the US to be right on par with REC.
I don't understand why the public isn't allowed to just buy the panels directly from the manufacturer??
@@SolarSurge Horrible answer, a range should have been given.
Manufacturers never talk about pricing to the public and have to keep it that way. This protects the free marketplace of course through distribution.
@@jeffbrown4135 Many do, the non smart ones don't.