THE WHEEL OF TIME BOOKS RANKED!
Vložit
- čas přidán 16. 06. 2019
- I have been asked to do this for years. I finally Rank every wheel of time book, and let you know where they fall in my list. I would love to see your all's wheel of time rankings down below! Let me know how wrong I was.
Patreon: / danielbgreene
Discord Server: / discord
Twitter: DanielBGreene?lan...
Instagram: / dgreene101
GoodReads: / daniel-greene
WorldHoppers: / @worldhoppers8021
Start The Wheel of Time here: amzn.to/2IQsnys - Krátké a kreslené filmy
What’s your ranking?
On this ranking system, I would say pretty much identical except for The Great Hunt, which i have always considered more of a B or C tier book in the series, that is mainly held up by all of the great world building in the precious book. Still good though, but one of the ones i least look forward to reading.
We have more or less the same list. My top three are
1. The Shadow rising (my favorite fantasy book of all time)
2. Fires of heaven
3. Knife of dreams
Also spot on with reading new spring after Fires of heaven being the best spot. Really ties the aiel and Lan stuff together.
Damn, I feel a reread on the horizon.
S - TDR, TSR, FoH, AMoL
A - EotW, TGH, ToM
B - NS, LoC, CoS, PoD, TGS
C - WH
D - CoT, KoD
I don't rank the books. I rank the storylines. The books are very uneven as far as I'm concerned, and they are very arbitrary as far as how they break up the story. I see it more as one long narrative, given to us in more or less linear chunks.
S Tier: Egwene chapters and other White Tower storylines, Forsaken POV chapters.
A Tier: Nynaeve/Elayne and Rand chapters, Black Tower chapters, Moiraine chapters and New Spring.
B Tier: Everything not mentioned in other tiers.
C Tier: Mat chapters. I dislike Mat, but sometimes interesting things happen in his vicinity.
D Tier: Perrin chapters. I would like Perrin the person, I have no doubt, but Perrin the character is dull as dishwater.
S. the dragon reborn (I love how Matt and Perrin get to develop as Rand moves from them),
the shadow rising
the fires of heaven (I love how Rand and Avienda's relation comes to fruition, the breathtaking speed at which rand conquers new lands, the siege of cairhien and matt accidentally playing the hero, the conflict with rand and the maidens, also the whole circus arc for nyneave and elayne that was alot of fun)
towers of midnight,
a memory of light.
A. Eye of the world
the great hunt,
crown of sword
winters heart (love the part where rand comes to caemlyn in secret and gets bonded, more parts with matt (always good), great job at cleansing saidin, at this point the white tower still feels like it is doing something rather than just waiting for egwene to take over)
knife of dreams
B. Path of daggers,
crossroad of twilight
the gathering storm
C. lord of chaos (aside from dumai's well and a few other scenes, this book mainly feels frustrating after all the progress in the previous books it feels we are just waiting, the way way nyneave and elayne get treated in salidar (though understandable) gives me a lot of irritation just as it does for them)
D. New spring (no desire to reread this one)
As an aside I have never felt the supposed slog of books 9 and 10, they are only 20 hours long in audio form, whereas lord of chaos is 40 hours, with only dumais wells to look to, that book felt like a real slog to get through instead.
I just finished this series 20 minutes ago. Time to binge all the WoT content I've been putting off 😌
Same
A bit late, but congratulations!
me right now! what a story!
@@nomchicky7515 Congratulations, Mate
Same
I had so many moments I adored in The Gathering Storm. I could be biased because it’s the first Sanderson novel I ever read, but I thought the book did wonders for the characters of Rand and Egwene. There are moments with both of them that are among the best moments ever in the series for me so I was shocked that it not only didn’t land in S tier, but landed in B tier. That’s cool and all, but it was just surprising how different I feel on that choice.
Finished the series a couple of days ago, and the more I think about the whole journey and try and remember what happened in the earlier books the more I think I'm going to have to do a re-read at some point in the future!
i think this guy likes WoT #hottake
i dunno he dosent seem super passionate
S - The Shadow Rising, A Memory of Light
A - The Eye of the World, The Great Hunt, The Fires of Heaven, Lord of Chaos, Knife of Dreams, Towers of Midnight
B - The Dragon Reborn, A Crown of Swords, The Path of Daggers, The Gathering Storm
C - Winter's Heart
D - Crossroads of Twilight
Poopanator1000 wow, my thoughts exactly
I nearly agree, except that Winter's heart is one of my favourites and I preferred The Gathering Storm than Towers of Midnights ^^
Correct
@@themegastudThis is my list as well. The Dragon Reborn almost went down to C for me because it just felt very telegraphed. It just felt like there was an obvious nature to what was going on... but the story built up as if th reader was in the dark.
This is my list too
Memory of Light was for me the best. I remember reading it pretty much in 24 hours just in different positions around the house hogging the story in. I was so immersed i got all teared up at times. Oh boy, I might have to read it again.
Can you rank Brandon Sanderson's books next?
do the Cosmere yeaaah
Most of his works would be either S or A tier in my book. Compared to other authors, at least.
@@Chalken376 No argument mate.
I think he has already done Cosmere ranking. czcams.com/video/nEJCL-MNUhs/video.html.
dude he just did ;)
I am reading the series for the first time and just got through the “slog”. I tried my best to go into those books with my mind open and minimal external influence but after reading then, I can see why people don’t love then as much. The whole Perrin, Faile and Shaido plot actually made me throw my book against the wall once.
I just bought the Eye of the World! This is going to be an adventure! Oh and i really love your videos, man! 😄
Please let us know what you think I just finished it yesterday and I wasn't too impressed. It was enough to get me to buy book two but if it doesn't get better I have to say I'm going to probably move on.
@@knocks101prime8 It really turns into a different kind of style of book after the first couple
I just started it also, it's awesome
@@knocks101prime8 stick with it. Remember, there is a grand story arc that is happening and you can't judge the series as a whole on the performance of any one book. I know people who would put the entire series in S and A. To them it doesn't get any better. Just stick with it and you will see for yourself why it's considered arguably to be one of the greatest fantasy series of all time.
@@knocks101prime8 I would suggest at least read up to 3rd or 4th. If you don't like even then It's probably not for you.
In my opinion, a memory of light is one of, if not the most, impactful conclusion to any story I’ve ever experienced in any medium. Robert Jordan is one of the greatest writers to ever live and Brandon Sanderson is absolutely sitting at his side. I can’t wait to see how he concludes Stormlight and if Kaladin dies I’m going to be an emotional wreck lol.
When you were talking about a great scene in ToM, I thought you were going to say Matt's scene in the tower with the snakes and foxes. Man, that scene was one of the best for me, as was that book. 💜
I literally come to this every time I'm about to start the next book
Same -- just started LoC and look! Here I am.
I’m so glad we agreed on the shadow rising. To me it is where the series takes off like a rocket and gets you unconditionally hooked.
Agreed , TSR is my favorite.
Gathering Storm is S tier. Rand's descent into full time crazy and Egwene's tower rebellion is a narrative 1 - 2 punch. It's great
Agreed, I just finished reading gathering storm and I just had shivers
I even think it's my favourite wot book. Even though Brandon didn't do a good job at mat, but I love Rand, Egwene and of course Verin makes the book even better. I think Amol and tsr are close to be my favourite too, but the gathering storm is slightly better in my opinion.
@@hierkonnteihrewerbungstehe5587 imho the book featured so many major threads that were resolved in a more than satisfactory manner
@@BiologicalRiley yes and I think it's the darkest wot book too and I'm a big grim dark fan soo
Dark Rand is perhaps my favorite character in fantasy history
Are we just gonna ignore how genius the concept of ta'veren was? It made it so much more believable as a story. I mean look at the timeline of any of the minor characters. The ta'veren experience more in ~2 years than most will in 2 centuries.
Thats what stood out to me in LOTR. From the few pages ive read it seemed like a series of short stories loosely chained together in an acid trip-esque manner.
I finished "The Wheel of Time" last week and boy did I enjoy the journey. I read it all in one go so it was a little exhausting in the middle(around the slog), but it was worth the struggle. I really liked your character examinations, and I'd like to thank you for introducing me to this amazing world.
I started watching this video after finishing the third book and being halfway through the fourth - I've come back every time I've finished a book to see how you ranked it. I've now finished the wheel of time and finally the video. It was a weird ritual, but I enjoyed it.
Love your videos. I haven't read WoT yet but because of you and your community being huge wot fans i thought i would give it a try and become a part of that :)
How'd it go? Did you finish the series and did you like them?
I got the first book with not knowing it was over 700 pages. Can’t wait to read it, the biggest book I’ve read
Late to the party here, but Crown of Swords is the single most underrated WOT book. I refuse to believe that's part of 'the slog.' I feel like I'm the only person in the world that rather likes Winter's Heart as well. Yeah, sure, the Perrin/Faile thing is infuriating at times, but so many cool and important things happen with Rand and Nynaeve obviously cleaning the taint (so much of the series builds to this moment, and it's so important it happens. Great payoff imo) and Mat meeting Tuon. When he kidnaps her is one of my favourite scenes in the series. Laugh out loud stuff at times there. My ranking:
S: The Shadow Rising, The Fires of Heaven, A Crown of Swords, Towers of Midnight, A Memory of Light
A: The Eye of the World, The Dragon Reborn, Lord of Chaos (although Dumai's Wells is S tier), Winter's Heart The Gathering Storm
B: The Great Hunt, Knife of Dreams
C: New Spring, The Path of Daggers
D:
E:
.
.
Z: Crossroads of Twilight
Wow, I can't believe I've found another Crown of Swords fan! I thought ACoS and even PoD were actually really good, just natural continuations of the series and some really interesting and satisfying things happen in them. Winter's Heart wasn't that bad either, it was really only CoT that hurt to finish.
Every time I finish a book I come back and watch another minute or so of this. One day I’ll finish the video. One day…
I’m only on book 6 so here is how I rank them(not including 6 since I haven’t finished yet)
5. Fires of heaven
4. Shadow Rising
3. Eye of the World
2. Dragon Reborn
1. Great Hunt
Not sure how book 3 is not S class. Egwyain's acceptance is the first glimpse into the depth and clarity of the authors vision of the world. It took the series from a fantasy adventure into a world beyond ours. I read it in awe at the mental machinations that were churning inside of Jordan's head and his ability to weave such an intricate story without leaving us bored by the weeds. Truly impressive.
Egwene’s acceptance?
A short summary for each book's main plotline would have been helpful here. I read most of them so long ago that the titles don't mean much to me anymore and i can't remember what happened in which book. They just all kind of blended together in my mind ....
Couldnt have done this any better, I like how you are such a fan and still being honest about the whole series, your list is my list tbh :P
Do one for witcher! P.s. We are still waiting for Lady of the Lake! Much luv Greenish Daniel
Robert Jordan: Commits Murder
Daniel Greene: Brilliant, Utterly Brilliant
I can agree with almost all of this. Except new New Spring. I personally love that book. The insight it gives to Moraine and Lan and Siuan really makes it one of my favs. Plus re reading it after you know all of the black sisters makes it really fun.
yessss i was looking for this comment. i would put it in s or at least top of the a tier
i loooooved fain's closure, it was funny as hell, from the moment he shows up i busted out laughing. it was all "bwhahahhahaha i am sooo powerfu...wtf..ow ow ow ded."
It was fitting, perrin had slayer, rand had Ishamael, and mat, with his connection to shadar logath, made fain the closest thing to his nemesis. And sence mat is generally the comic relief, its fitting that his nemesis goes down in a silly way.
Fain and the gholam I feel were Mats main archenemies, the way he took out both was awesome
I actually liked Fain's ending as well. Like you said, he showed up and just started _deleting_ people. When Mat got impaled I seriously thought that was the end. I thought the reveal that he was immune was actually epic, and loved that he was the one to actually finish off Fain.
Padan Fains death headcannon for me was the Wheel setting up the possibility of another dark one to balance the pattern just in case Rand killed The Dark One.
Late but completely agree
I almost completely agree with the rankings except:
- Fires of Heaven is firmly B tier for me (pretty much all of Elayne and Nynaeve stuff in this book can be cut out and nothing would change).
- The Great Hunt is S tier for me, so many awesome moments, great world building, great character moments, the world really opened up in this book.
Right with you for The Great Hunt. It is so much fun. Love that book.
Agreed. CoT is really C and Winter's Heart is a solid F.
I personally love that you rated the final two books in the series so high. They were my two favourite books in the series, and they had me far more hooked than any other book in the series. I agree with your ranking for the most part. I would rank The Gathering Storm in the A tier, but besides that, pretty well the same! Awesome job!
I'm still reading the series and I appreciate your ranking. I'm struggling thru book 8. Path of Daggers so I'm glad to see you agree. A struggle. But I will keep preserving as the overall story is wonderful, exciting and I want to share that ending with everyone!
Totally agree about The Shadow Rising. I loved every page of that book! Your channel is inspiring me to finally finish the series.
The most noticeable Brandon writing aside from the scene on Dragonmount is how he handled Matt in general. It just felt like a different person to me.
I've heard that he said mat was the hardest character to write in Jordans style.
I personally enjoyed the change.
Sanderson's word choice can also be jarring. Modern slang feels out of place in medieval fantasy.
@@brendanmckenna7613 I think he didn't understand Matt at all. Matt jokes in the face of danger because it's his coping mechanism; if he can make himself laugh then he isn't focused on being scared. While he may constantly talk like a man who doesn't want responsibility, he's highly responsible and follows through on everything he says he will do. Before the last three books Matt's jokes are more off the cuff chances to laugh as an attempt to lighten the mood. In the last 3 books his humor is almost forced to the point the becomes the butt of the joke.
Such a great video! I agree globally with your rankings, though since it's been a while since I read most of the Wheel of Time books. Based off my memories and ratings of the books at the time though, I think we'd mostly agree. I really enjoyed this video!
Great watch. Great to find you. Remember reading Shadow Rising in 2004 ish...in 2 days. My quickest WOT read. Need to do them again..
D: Crossroads of Twilight
C: Path of Daggers, Crown of Swords and Winter's Heart
B: Eye of the World, Fires of Heaven, Knife of Dreams
A: The Great Hunt, the Dragon Reborn, Towers of Midnight
S: The Shadow Rising, Lord of Chaos, the Gathering Storm, A Memory of Light
Omg I can finally watch this video and all your other wheel of time videos coz I just finish the series! It’s a day for celebration 🎉
Daniel, Crossroads got so much hate because the fandom was very concerned the series would never be finished. One of the things on re-reads is that once I knew the series had a finale I enjoyed the extra character development we got in the whole series. In retrospect none of the books are "bad" like you said, but the Amazon review hate this book gets is only because a majority of the reviews were concerns about the series ever finishing.
The ending of WoT was maddening, glorious, unexpected, saddening, confusing, perfect, and a relief all rolled into one tidal wave of emotion. Such a great story. R.I.P. Robert Jordan you are loved and missed by so many (and a huge thank you to Brandon Sanderson for bringing the final pages to us so respectfully).
I just started with the Wheel of Time yesterday so I left the video when you said there were spoilers ahead, but love your videos man. Keep up the work. I'll compare my list with your when I am done reading the entire series. However, good job mate. 👍
Agree with you about Shadows Rising. Oh man I’ve probably read that book ten times. Your ranking on WoT is on the ball and my thoughts align almost exactly with the strengths and weaknesses of the middle books.
Fantastic, I’ve just started Shadow Rising so I’m looking forward to book 4 even more now!
I'm almost through crossroads of twilight, and I am SO glad to hear it's getting better soon!
I've read this series twice and have listened to it another 5 times. I ty to listen to it at least once a year while I drive. With that being said, I agree with your rankings. The struggle of Rand in the box is probably my favorite though. The slow build up in tension untill an explosive narrative crescendo in an epic battle... so well done..
I know this comment was two years ago but I saw on Wikipedia tonight that listening to the audio books takes over 19 days total listening time.
That's pretty much 100 days of your life listening to WoT.
So my introduction to wheel of time was 20 years ago I was given a crown of swords by one of my platoon sargents ( I have a habit of picking up books mid series) didn’t know who half the characters were till midway and I was like are there more of these. Lo and behold it was number 7 and when I read eye of the world I was like holy crap that’s who they are!! Never made it to the end tho life got in the way. But rereading from 1-7 then I can get the rest
The Shadow Rising has always been my favorite. Interesting that so many people seem to agree.
Love your content man, keep doing you !
So I have one question about your rankings i noticed you didn't mention Matt's arc very much. I had a harder time following anything Perrin did. But Matt easily had some of the best moments in the wheel. I agree with your rankings I just felt like Matt's story wasn't represented at all.
Matt’s is pretty much s tier book 4 and onwards. Not much to say there.
its impossible to rank them, they are all my favourite.
...but if i have any favourite at all its evrything Mat after fires of heaven.
Couldn't agree more!
even COT?
hellz ya, mat is both awesome and funny as hell especally after being that queen's plaything and his new affinity for lace.
Joakim Nybäck Mat is such a fantastic character. He outshines Rand after the sixth book...
Daniel- I would love a similar video where you rank the original book covers (I know you don’t care for them as much as the newer ones- but you could rank them and even poke fun at them- I think you could have a lot of fun with it and it would be infectious).
I can just imagine you dissecting how Nicholas Cage would do in the WOT world.
Michael Feeney I have & love the ones Daniel uses in this video, although all of them may not be well done. I think the hardcover ones are Ugly!! Britain sell them with just the symbol of The Wheel Of Time in different colors but the print is too small for my bad eyesight. Good request.
I’m going to start this series for the first time in the next few weeks and I couldn’t be more excited
Glad you put book 4 in S tier (not surprising really) that book is absolutely amazing. Also I love the cover with Mat holding the Ashanderi, the events surrounding him in that book were awesome
Solid video, and it was great hearing how you arrived at each decision. Maybe I'll post my rankings later, but the main issue I have is crown of swords. I think the storyline in Ebou Dar takes too long to really make progress. Once it does, you are really going to not want to put it down. But before that, once Rand returns to Cairhen, it slows to a damn crawl. Definitely B at best.
Knife of dreams had the best impression on me. Especially that cliffhanger ending with Pevera meeting Taim and says "Let the lord of Chaos rule" which he then starts laughing maniacally with all the Ashaman by his side. I got so scared for the Red Ajah members there it gave me goosebumps :(
I might be a little weird, The Gathering Storm was my favorite book. Set up the last two books fantastically, and for me, was the strongest Egwene book. Nicely wrapped up a couple of plot points and felt the fastest paced book since the beginning of the series.
S - Gathering Storm, A Memory of Light, Towers of Midnight
A - The Great Hunt, The Dragon Reborn, The Shadow Rising, Knife of Dreams
B - The Fires of Heaven, The Eye of the World, A Crown of Swords, Lord of Chaos
C - Winter's Heart (for me the best of the slog, kinda felt like a tier of its own)
D - The Path of Daggers, Crossroads of Twilight
I also ranked them within their tiers
Hey Daniel. Just hopping on the video to give it a like and save it for later. I’m weary of spoilers for this series so I’ll be coming back to see your rankings. 😊
I want to start this by saying A Memory of Light was the first WoT book I bought when it was released. Everything else I bought and read in a 20 month marathon, broken up only when the new Dresden Files came out. The series had gotten me through my toughest time in university, both through the "hell year" for my major and the dissolution of most of my social life. I would become known on campus as the guy with the books, because I would take almost any chance to read them that studying couldn't be done.
That said, it is my opinion that A Memory of Light is the single best WOT novel. It was gorgeously written, immensely satisfying, and gloriously entertaining. Egwene's last scene, along with others, drove me to tears with how beautiful and touching they were. After finishing it the first time, I was driven to reread it four more consecutive times.
The Shadow Rising is definitely an incredible book and I agree with everything Daniel said about it. However, A Memory of Light just hit me so much more that I have to say it is the best WOT book. It is what drove me to read more of Brandon Sanderson, leading me to Mistborn.
Me who knows absolutely nothing about wheel of time: *interesting*
I have liked again, Daniel Greene.
I was really enjoying this series and could not finish book 9 when I got to it, it’s nice to see that the sentiment is shared and it gets better from there, I’ll attempt it once more with that in mind
I agree completely with what you said about Memory of Light. The fact that it managed a satisfying ending to WoT is such an epic literary feat.
I am about 1/3 into eye of the world and just bought part 2 3 today. I got bot for €10 in my local bookshop. I’m happy out.
A ranking of all the Brandon Sanderson books you’ve read and the same thing for Steven King would be really cool!
Fuck yeees
As for the lists: could you do a list of top 10 (or top 5 if ten's too much) best magic systems?
WoT is number 1, that is known, but I'd like to see more of the ones you like
You could probably fill a list like that with Cosmere-magic alone... I mean; I still haven't read one where I didn't wish I could use the magic system. Forgery, AonDor, Surgebinding, Allomancy, Biochroma, and Sand mastery all sound awesome.
I think the more important question to go over especially for the Uninitiated is what order does New Spring falls in the series
How Elayne and Morgase treated Perrin regarding the Two Rivers was a low moment for me.
Politics and real world power, very realistic honestly.
Great rankings. Towers of midnight is my favorite overall and Crosswinds of Twilight is usually skipped when I reread the series.
Hi, I bought the first 3 books after looking up some good fantasy books and decided on Wheel of Time. I'm new to reading books. Normally I like comics and I struggle reading books as I always lose focus and start reading the words with my mind somewhere else, I have ADD so I don't know if that's the cause.
But I have noticed I am getting alot better I'm on the first book still but its gripping me more and once I'm focused I don't read sections again and the story is great it's exactly what I wanted. Can't wait to get further in the story and into other books that I hear you mention on the channel.
That B > C > D > S ranking sequence is for sure shared by a LOT of us.
This is surprisingly close to my own. I'd flip 8 & 9, and then knock down 1, 7 & 13 a single step. That's it. I especially enjoy that you're also a Knife of Dreams fan and your view Sanderson hadn't quite figured out WoT in 12 (particularly his Mat scenes [Hinderstap] rubbed me wrong - but fixed by 13).
Daniel, I don't know if you have already read part or all of it, but I think you would love Robin Hobb's Realm of the Elderlings (Farseer Trilogy, Liveship Traders Trilogy, Tawny Man Trilogy, Rain Wilds Chronicles, Fitz and the Fool Trilogy).
It's a bit of a grower. Farseer, Tawny Man, and Fitz and the Fool center around one set of characters and places, while Liveship and Rain Wilds are in a different place with different characters, but there is absolutely some overlap and you'd miss it without reading them, not to mention they are great reads.
The series is sad at times, but it does get happier later on, with one of the best endings I've seen.
The magic doesn't seem all that interesting in Farseer, but it's another one of those "the knowledge is lost" bits and it gets much better later.
I 100% agree with Shadow Risings rank. That is the book that got me hooked! I would place it higher than S tier if a higher rank existed
The final book was only missing an appropriate epilogue. We spent 14-15 books along with hundreds of characters, and we get what seemed only a few pages. I know RJ wrote the epilogue, so maybe Sanderson just wanted to respect that.
I just wanted more after all the time we gave into this universe.
Great list! You were very generous with book 7! Way to be boldl lol good stuff
Actually helps because I struggled on book 8 and after months of putting it off I finished book 9. I agree they both have good moments but it does feel dry alot. Now that I know what to expect from book 10, I think I'll not put it off as much since there's light at the end of the tunnel.
YES HE DID IT, THANK YOU DANIEL
Ranks differ from day to day, expected to hit the slog much earlier, but reading book 10 now and the only wall I hit has been the preamble in chaps about 16 to 20. Was going to do as you suggested read after 5, but after I finished 5, I decided to go on to read up to 10 - and see how I feel then. but definitely will read New Spring after 11 ...
The gathering storm ranking surprised me, in hindsight it makes sense but still veins of gold is my favorite chapter of a book I have ever read, which brings the book way up in my eyes.
Been thinking about jumping into this series sometime-good to know most of the books are rock solid.
Good thing to note...we all refer to the "slog" in the late middle of the books. When you read them for the first time, it may or may not actually be a slog. It is only REALLY a slog when you read for the 2nd time and beyond. You know what is going to happen, and you know how long it takes to get there. That's what makes it a slog.
@@jonhall152 I agree with this, they could be boring at times but still entertaining on a first read through
Really excited watching until "There will be spoilers in this video from here on..." I´m OUT!!!
Rodrigo Santos same. I was super excited because I just finished book 3 like 15 minutes ago. When he said spoilers I noted out.
Mute the video and got to the end if you want the ranks
Winter’s heart at tier C? *pulls braid*
*YANKS*
Okay, 5:13, I'll leave 😭 but I'll come back! Currently reading the Shadow Rising, you set the stakes really high there! 😂
Can you do one where you do more spoilers, deeper analysis, give examples of special scenes that ranks the books for you? I haven’t read the books in so many years now. It’s difficult to know what’s in what book nowadays. Thanks!
Alexander Johansson I wish Daniel would do a Book -by- Book of what Should be cut, loop holes closed up and what should be improved upon. That would be a great idea for a series of videos.
New Spring after 4! Reading it before Fires of Heaven makes some of those beats hit harder I think. Good list!
Daniel, I would love for you to read the Farseer trilogy by Robin Hobb. Its a great and intricate series that I would love to hear your take on.
Kudos to you for finding redeeming qualities in the slog books. I would have put all 3 of them in D they were so hard to get through.
Great rankings. I still think EOTW and TGH are above KOD. I also think Sanderson did a great job closing out the series....but no better than Jordan did at opening it and getting us hooked. I could see maybe only elevating one of those two to the S Tier..which should be TGH. Good stuff buddy!
Sanderson was awful. Jordan's biggest flaw was how he handled the later books. To say that trio Sanderson excrete compares in any way to Jordan's opening is beyond absurd. Sanderson's writing is puerile, he destroyed multiple characterizations and he lacks genuine wit or subtlety. He does not have enough real life experience or knowledge to write political scenes plausibly or military scenes engagingly. He isn't smart enough to maintain the intelligence of characters. Look at how Sarene thinks in LoC, or the discussions between White sisters in KoD or CoT, and then compare it to the grade-school level debate Egwene observes and joins with Ferane. Egwene wins in negotiations for absolutely no reason.
Jordan's writing was good enough to get us to overlook that most of her successes came through loopholes in laws he invented, but with Sanderson, it is clear she is only winning by authorial fiat. The Sitters had no reason to vote for Egwene's proposal in the Hall, and the Sea Folk had no reason to sign on to her training agreement, since it gave them nothing they did not already have, and required them to surrender a number of concessions they had already obtained from the Tower. You're supposed to come away from scenes like that being impressed at Egwene's ability in getting them to agree, not wondering why they agreed at all. When Jordan had a scene like that, it happened off camera, like Egwene blackmailing Sheriam, so we can't say for sure that there is no way Sheriam would have agreed.
Sanderson lacks reading comprehension as well. Aviendha's tiresome conversation with Nakomi in the Waste was just a rehash of a soliloquy she gave in tFoH, when tending to Rand after the collapse of the watchtower.
Throughout Jordan's books, there is a constant refrain about leaders not going to the front lines, that commanders should stay back and command. We see it with the Aiel, where the kids make an effigy to be the chief so they can have fun playing fighters. Mat's final chapter has him quote that old general's book about generals fighting. Gareth Bryne is quoted by Elayne saying that "an army is a general's sword...a general who uses another blade has mistaken his job." The book with that quote ends with Egwene taking over the harbor chain operation and getting captured, only surviving, because Elaida is much more merciful and reasonable than she. Then Brandon Sanderson takes over and suddenly Gareth Bryne is a blademaster who owns a heron-mark sword. We get moronic lines like "Wake up the night guard and have them put on their armor"! We get Bryne leaving his army to lead a small commando raid WHILE A BATTLE IS TAKING PLACE! I already thought he was an asshole for blowing off his unofficial step-daughter just because he wasn't having sex with her mom any more, but until Sanderson started writing him, I didn't think he was incompetent and corrupt as well!
Jordan, the military veteran, wrote characters who survived a battle, merely relieved to have survived, thinking of victory as a compensation prize, and absolutely NO glory experienced by those forced to fight. Nynaeve's disgusted comment that war is men behaving like animals is not out of tune with what other characters experience when forced to fight a war. Elayne & Mat win victories that are entirely due to their brains and leadership and their attitude is simply "Fine, now what's the next job we have to do?" But Sanderson, unless he was trying to turn Egwene into a villain protagonist or an egomaniacal anti-hero, missed all that, and wrote Egwene's post-battle reaction to be reveling in the destruction and death she caused and the power she weilded. Just to make sure it wasn't a mistake, he had her celebrating her kills during Tarmon Gaidon! He even had her commit atrocities, without any indication that he was aware what she was doing when she uncollared damane and then burned their now-helpless sul'dam alive.
Another point made in Jordan's books was that Egwene giving speeches that openly appealed to emotion & idealism would not work in the Hall, but that's the only kind of speech Sanderson has Egwene give.
Sanderon's greatest strength as a writer, from what I understand, is in creativity, which makes him the wrong pick to continue a fantasy series where all the creative work is done. He is supposed to be clever in having characters utilize established magic in inventive new ways, but the scene where Takima is making a recon gateway for Gareth Bryne is just dumb if you know how gravity works.
@@Gunleaver cool!?!
@@Gbt31 Never!
@@Gunleaver I reject your reality, and replace it with my own.
@@jiiaga5017 Absent any arguments, points of discussion or reasons, that doesn't mean a whole lot, especially because I absolutely reject the idea of a mutable or personal reality as firmly as I do a Flat Earth or geocentric universe.
I read these years ago, re-started them all a few weeks ago, started with the prequel, in the middle of Eye of the World now. Doing audio books, just no time to read anymore, but easy to find moments for audio books.
I absolutely agree with his rankings, time to watch his Cosmere video!
Watching this in 2023.
Been watching alot of Daniel's Wheel of Time videos en route to the Season #2 launch of the TV Show adaptation next month and I'm stunned to realize that Daniel has never actually done reviews of all 15 books in the series. The Wheel of Time is of course his all-time favorite Fantasy saga ever & he's made dozens & dozens of videos dedicated to The Wheel of Time but he's never done actual reviews of each book in the series. I really would love to see Daniel revisit each Wheel of Time book & review them one by one.
I have read through books 1-7 twice and I cannot seem to get through Path of Daggers. I'm starting again hoping maybe I can make it through this time, but I felt a little better knowing this is where the "slog" starts.
I think its fine. The stretch of The Great Hunt to The Shadow Rising, maybe including Fires, is my favorite 3-4 book stretch of reading of all time, I can spend a week sitting through that and be happy. My perspective of the WoT is a bit skewed because I started on Dragon Reborn as a youth, then picked up the series from the start. So the little bit darker development of some of the characters, some of their more nuanced personality, informed my reading of his first books, especially the great hunt.
Had to skip to the end in fear of spoilers, im only at The Shadow Rising rn, its pretty darn great. Its good to know there are even more great books ahead of me:)
I'm surprised TGS is so low, for me it's the best book in the series. The parallels of Rand and Egwene were great and the Dark Rand->Evil Rand->Veins of Gold was beautifully done. Mat's character was a bit wonky but he's barely in the book so it didn't bother me. Nice to see you going gently on the Path of Daggers though. It's a quiet book done well, and the end is just miserable and depressing which gives the cleansing next book so much more catharsis.
I think Sanderson wrote most of The Gathering Storm. It was my understanding that Jordan wrote much more of the ending before his death so when Sanderson took over he had the most to fill in early on in the closing book (so B1 of closing trilogy) I think it's not a matter of Sanderson not in the Jordan groove as much of just seeing more of Sanderson's voice on display early because Jordan had so much completed when he died....I agree with your list btw.
I'm pretty sure Jordan planned on it being one very thick book and when Sanderson sat down to work on it he realized (unlike some fantasy ppl cough cough game of thrones) that it wouldn't do justice to the source material to have it be so fast paced. So he decided along with Jordans wife to split the last book into a trilogy, which gave him the space to set the pace better and have events flow more naturally.
I have still only read the first three books. When I started book The Shadow Rising I noticed how much smaller the print was, which meant it would be even longer than the previous three, and it started introducing brand new characters with their own PoV chapters right off the bat. I am not a fast reader. I usually only read before bed and I'm a heavy sleeper. That said, I usually read a chapter before I'm starting to nod off. As a result of this, it usually takes me a few months to finish a 600-900 page fantasy novel. With TSR not hooking me in the first 50 pages, I decided to move onto something else. I really need to go back to it, but it's been several years. I've still never started the Stormlight Archive or Malazan, two series I have been meaning to start. Daniel, would you recommend that I start TWoT all over, or would reading Chapter Summaries for the three previous books be a sufficient refresher? Also, do you have any tips for getting through these books more quickly? I guess less gaming and television (ie. more reading) would be the only reasonable solution.
One thing in the final book I believe and maybe the second to last that was my favorite possibly out of all the series would be the building on lan heading to the blight as “the one became many” that arc of the story was so surreal it brought me to tears almost every time it popped up in POV but I can agree almost fully with your ranking
Such a great event, I loved how Nyneave traveled around and roused the fighting men of Malkier to go help him. The Golden Crane flies again! Tai'shar Malkier!
Winter's heart is the one that broke me and I still haven't started back up again. And I read that when it first came out in hardcover.
People may disagree but I would say read an online summary of Crossroads of Twilight and jump back in with Knife of Dreams. Especially if you like Brandon Sanderson (for the books after Knife of Dreams). The series ends strong.
Well done, good work!