Old oscilloscope with unexpected internals
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- čas přidán 7. 07. 2023
- Taking a look at and into an old big oscilloscope with a round CRT. You'd expect this heavy crude tank to be full of tubes, but... this is Czechoslovak KŘIŽÍK T565/531-79.
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Restore it please. I never expected transistors either.
This looks quite good especially regarding the metal chasis. Seems to be stashed away and forgotten in a dry place. This definitely deserves to be preserved!
Dust free, no rust, no bugs. Definitely well preserved and well made.
My first college class was Electromechanics.
The lab was to disassemble, test everything and reassemble an oscilloscope. All glass tubes.
I’m old.
Amazing, I didn't expect transistors in it, pretty cool 😎👍👍👍👍. I hope you can keep it, I would love to see it fixed and running again.
I love that the designers oriented the X and Y input jacks differently from each other. While they matched the common orientation for the vertical deflection terminals they missed the opportunity to have up mean up and over mean over.
If you take a week or so to power it up gently with a voltage and current limited supply (think Variac with series night light bulb) any power supply capacitors on the fence will have a chance to recover if they can.
Toto je veľmi pekný kúsok historickej techniky, tiež som vnútri očakával elektrónky. Napadlo mňa, či sa nejedná o veľmi zdarilú amatérsku prerábku starého, možno nefunkčného elektrónkového osciloskopu na novšiu polovodičovú techniku. Ten Tesla IO MJA111 je starší ekvivalent MH7472 - JK klopný obvod, tesla na konci 60. a začiatku 70. rokov takto označovala svoju neskoršiu MH74XX sériu, takže sa jedná už o TTL IO, len so starším značením, je možné že amatér, ktorý toto staval (ak je moja domnienka o amatérskej prerábke správna) mal tento obvod už dlhšiu dobu v šuplíku a aj keď v 80. roku, ako si odhadol rok výroby, už Tesla značila TTL obvody USA štýlom (MH74XX), tak daný amatér použil tento obvod so starším značením. Za mňa určite si osciloskop ponechaj a rád by som videl aj video, prípadne videá z opravy/reštaurácie tohto zariadenia.
Tohle určitě byla sériová výroba. Ale zatím nevím, jestli si to můžu nechat, ono to původně mělo být poslané někomu jinému. Na mou adresu to ten člověk poslal omylem, prohodil adresy dvou zásilek.
I half expected it to be a "Cossor Oscillograph" from the 1950s, until I saw the mains input socket. Then I thought maybe a Cossor from the late 1970s!
Definitely needs to be returned to working order.
The model year is 1979, as indicated by “KŘIŽÍK T565/531-79”. I could only find a schematic for the vacuum tube version, perhaps you could ask the sender if they have a copy. Anyway, I’m sure you could reverse-engineer it if necessary, you’ve worked on more difficult equipment before.
Also thanks for demystifying the green plastic components, I have a few on a shelf and now I know they’re capacitors.
I've only found the tube version schematic too. The green capcitors are Tesla TE002 - TE006.
@@DiodeGoneWild I found their datasheet, and they’re pretty bad by today’s standards. Also, it says “NOT TO BE USED IN NEW DESIGNS” - does it mean they were discontinued or superseded by modern components, or that they were found to be unreliable?
@@vaclavtrpisovsky probably types that were discontinued, just warning potential circuit designers, that such components aren't a great choice for a series production with risks of finding suitable equivalents in near future.
@@teslakovalaborator Their loss factor is absurdly high, 0.20~0.60 at 100 Hz. At this point, you can replace them with a modern capacitor, and add a series resistor if you need to simulate the several ohms of ESR. I don’t see any advantages of the plastic ones and why anyone would think they were irreplaceable.
A glitch in the matrix at 4:18. Suddenly the cooling fin on one of the transistors jumps!
Good overview. Would like to see it restored, running. Measuring actual current draw would be interesting, 150VA at 220V is only 0.68A and I suspect the CRT takes a fair proportion of that.
The CRT doesn't draw that much. The heater maybe 4.5W and the anode surely not more than 1 or 2W.
I suspect that maybe the nameplate VA rating was left unchanged from the tube versions, and that the transistorized version actually uses a lot less.
@@tookitogo I won't sleep now, until it is actually measured.
@@ralphj4012 :D Are you doing OK? I hope the delirium isn’t too bad yet! ;)
0:39 I'm french and I am proud to report that I can pronounce it!!
Yes, it would be interesting to see it working. And it would also be good to know what to watch out for when restarting long-standing old electronic devices.
Damn, 😂😂.... I was fooled as I was expecting to see some vacuum tubes...!!! Nice.
How does someone “accidentally” send you something like that?
I also have difficulties understanding it :).
@@DiodeGoneWild It's most likely a surprise gift. Looking forward hearing about the results of the conversation with the person who sent it!
@@DiodeGoneWild What were you expecting to get? Something good?
Restoring involves first mapping the circuit, then change-out the dodgy components. About a month's work?
Using - that is where it gets interesting... With XY available, could do reactance bridge, octopus component tester, vector/circle graphics, valve tester, or fault/noise tracer.... (Build extra equipment into this casing to do this.). Then you get a valued tool.. ❤
Actual power drawn in your instrument, probably less than 30 Watts.
I am playing around with vintage oscopes as well. I discovered that from 1961 all new oscopes used differential amplifiers / long tailed pairs that acted on both deflection plates on each of X and Y. Before then, Pentodes and any phase inverting accomplished with Anode-to-grid-via-capacitor.
Diff amps work *so* much better !
They surely don't make them like that any more! What a wonderful find.
It's built like a tank that you can keep operational for decades.
Finders keepers.
I'd love to see this scope running if you can negotiate keeping it for a reasonable cost. I've always had a facination for Soviet Bloc technology since it started appearing on second hand markets in the 90s after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. People often dismiss it as "primative" but I prefer to think of it as simple tech made from standard parts that would be easy to maintain rather than the equipment made in the west that contain many irreplaceble custom parts.
Super clean!
For sheet metal enclosures you could punch the holes out on a turret punch press where you punch out one hole at a time with an x-y table and this was good for low volume production. Alternativly you can get a punch out everything in a single stamping die which is extremely fast but also very expensive. I am guessing they made all the tooling expecting that they'd make millions without change and then when things did change they did not want to spend money on new tooling.
Thank you. Keep working, good luck.
There were a few transistorized recurrent sweep oscilloscopes built in the west too in the 1970s, not common though. I have a Heathkit 5MHz scope like that, all discrete silicon driving a round 5 inch tube, uses TV video driver transistors for the final amps.
Fix it please, I love your videos. You are such a smart man, and I have learned so much from your watching and listening to you. Thank you for all you do.
“Maybe someone cleaned it so thoroughly the graticule came off”
Oddly specific there.
Great to see a piece of old tech. Go ahead and do the restoration. Should be interesting.
Whoa! Unexpected indeed, especially with ICs. Nice build quality too. This scope would make a nice component signature tracer, like @MrCarlsonsLab made... but who needs that anymore when you have the MTester? :)
150VA still waaaaaaay too big. Maybe they re-used not just the old chassis, but also the nameplate from the tube era.
BTW, I see the Zopan PFL-23. Greetings from Poland :)
Plenty of VA just keeping the transformer warm...
They did have good engineers. Remember that the world's first technical university was established in Prague all the way back in 1707.
At least they can’t be blamed of copying Tektronix or HP. Or even Heathkit. Simple and modest design. Really funny to have transistor boards in a 1950’s tube chassis.
It would be a fun retro piece to repair at least to the point of being able to display waveform images, pictures, etc. To decorate your lab/office.
Nice museum piece! Great video!
The square ceramic caps are USSR I believe (they used them a lot in transistor radios).
We've had those TR-0458/B function generators in the lab when I was in college - back then (in 2006) it didn't seem all that outdated, I guess they just kept them because they're easy to fix)
They are Czechoslovakian (Tesla)
The TR-0458/B is Hungarian. It's just partially working, I will fix it in the next video.
@@DiodeGoneWild EMG, Elektronikus Mérömüszerek Gyára (translation: factory of electronic instruments), subsidiary of Orion (famous for TVs)
Repurposed cabinet from earlier times. Lots of holes to provide cooling from hot tubes that it no longer will be using.
It is a space waster as the cabinet has lots of room now because nothing else inside is not needed. Great surprise gift to
you to evaluate.
Yes, want to see it restored and working!
That cat knew the score...
Hard wait see it restored 😊
I hope you can keep it, I would love to see it restored!
After 15 seconds of watching, I thought the surprise was the dog inside the scope. 😁
Wow I was expecting Valves/Tubes so the use of Solid State Electronics must have been very expensive given the age of the device...
Looks well preserved and would be a great Full Restoration project...
Amazing device.
That's a very nice looking oscilloscope and is in good condition for it's age.
It is quite slow by today's standards I think, but it could still be put to good use by you I'm sure.
It would be a very useful addition to the workbench especially if you install an oscilloscope clock generator module and a bluetooth audio receiver, you could also make them switchable so it could still be an oscilloscope too.
Sometimes it's useful to have audio amplification and I little built-in speaker to hear the signals that are being tested.
Congrats, it's interesting.
in the old days (when eBay was still fun) I once got some felt slippers instead of a computer, the seller just mixed up our addresses but in the end everything went well and I got my computer and the one who ordered them got his warm shoes 😁
The way the glass is mounted in front of the screen looks as though it's intended to be interchangeable. That would explain the lack of units on the controls - the units used would depend on what particular grid glass was installed.
I bet it was not sent by accident, more like a surprise.
If I send you accidentally my mother in law, do you keep her?
It fool me for good, i thought that was built in the 60's at most 70's, but at same time the exterior was in pretty good shape which made me think twice, and obviously i also was expecting tubes not transistors. And yes, that thing with a pair of crawlers become a tank, it already has a "cannon" lol and some aiming nobs 😅💣
Look at those cool heatsinks
Go for it.
Yes, restore it!
Keep it. Transporting such a heavy box over post office costs a fortune.
This video raises so many questions, each phase seems to be ending with a question mark.
I also thought it contains vacuum tubes. But after seeing all this, when the question came when was it made, I guessed 80s or even 90s. 90s because Eastern Europe back then was very conservative and designs that were made in the late 70s were still used and manufactured throughout the 90s or even until the fall of the Soviet Union.
Docela by mně zajímalo, že co ti mělo přijít původně místo tohohle 😊
All the internals look very clean and free of dust, which makes me wonder how much use it has seen. Considering its limited function, it's possible that its owner found a more capable replacement relatively soon after purchase of this unit.
It's quite possible. But it's hard to imagine anybody buing this in 1980 in the first place, other than some school.
big transforrmer is for good mechanical table stability.
East Germany made plastic electrolytic caps too. They were horribly leaky even when new. You probably have seen them marked with Frolyt or Elyt. Way back when i was a student....
"Křižik: You cannot pronounce it unless you're Czech..."
...or Polish, or Slovak😊
I have driven through Czechia on motorbike a couple of times. Nice country, the language 🤯so many consonants, so many accents and things... Reminds me of Syldavia in Tintin
"Absolute anvil", haha, legend!, 😂
This makes me think of the Vintage DuMont Laboratories Inc. Cathode-Ray Oscillograph, Type 2559a and HICKOK OS-8B/U OSCILLOSCOPE 😎 Thank you.
Also the Model: Oscilloscope K552 - Krizik, FR. A. S.; Praha Czechoslovakia 1960 ? A wonderful Czech T565 oscilloscope. 🥳 A little bit like a HeathKit.
I had to see it working
Hope you Fix it soon
Looks like a DIY upgrade of a valve oscilloscope to me. That would explain the incorrect rating plate and the low tech PCBs.
No, this came from the factory in 1980, including the low tech board. Believe it or not...
Electronics looks like some amateur osciloscope which were popular at the time (80s), we had such schematics in old polish "Radioelektronik" or "Młody Technik" journals.
They were basicaly using simple BF257 transistors, and as far as I remember, they were not using standard differential approach, just plain amplifiers, which was the cause
of poor maximum frequency. I suppose someone reworked the tube version.
It has both Y and X inputs...this is where the fun starts.
I think you should get it running would be good to see it working. Run it up on your variac it will be fine
Niiiice.
Strange that it has the y channel marked in mV /cm but there is no graticule or grid covering the face of the crt.🤔
"Absolute Envill"
great video thanks .. ❤pat a mat czech ❤ ....
So technically this is fully isolated through that transformer?
As punishment and fun, you have to use this scope from now on. No more fancy storage scopes. ;)
0:40 Any Slavic speaking person can easily understand, read and pronounce it.
0:40 I can pronounce it and I'm Croatian :)
Please let us see it brought back to life. It might be missing a calibrated face mask but it seems to have some calibration controls to set references.
Does anybody have more information about the multimeter M1T 242? It seems quite interesting.
Lubisz stare klamoty. Zrób coś na lampach, zasilacz, radio, albo co... 🙂👍
Please fix it :) have it in the background doing shapes and have odd sci fi beeps and boops playing over it lol. Your amazing :)
Can you measure the voltage of the CRT anode?
Ja sem byl v Brne !!! Je tam velmy hesky.
I expected it to have relays inside... 😀
That has to be an x-ray machine 😁
obnov to prosím
People who don't have an oscilloscope. Will understand
There is a ic-chip so my conclusion is that it is produced not earlier than the 70-ties.
krizik... half the characters are the special ones...
Interesting... What do You think, is it possible that somebody rebuilt a broken scope around 1980? I mean completely ripping out the inner workings with tubes and rebuilding it with what was modern technology at the time. Maybe not a private person but for example in the technical collage ?
No, this was factory produced this way.
I guessed right!!! 1980!
You say that the oscilloscope is from the Czech Republic?
Yes. Or actually Czechoslovakia back then.
Those old high voltage capacitors are probably full of PCB's!
Its safe until its not leaking. Even if its leaking its safe until you dont eat them.
I had many European made oscilloscopes, some were English, some German, forgot all the brands. Once it is yours, please show us the smoke!
Maybe this scope was intended especially for school use??
Was it a school scope, like a physics classroom aid?
keep it pls
looks like part of czechoslovakian submarine sonar
How can you possibly sand 20 kilogramme oscilloscope on accident??
I have hard time understanding that
Maybe its some kind of gift or something?
I found out that the guy sent two packages the same day and he swapped the addresses :).
@@DiodeGoneWild well that explains it. Its probably the only way this can happen:)
Please restore it
I was expecting Cyrillic lettering at first, but of course if it’s Czech it wouldn’t have that, unless meant for export mostly to the Soviet Union…
Plz restore it
Хорошечно..
I think it has been modernized. Look at the chassis, there are still the holes for the tubes and the semiconductor board looks as if it was added later.
It's also logical, in the eastern bloc a lot was too valuable to simply throw away. The housing and the sight tube look quite healthy.
More likely they just had leftover chassis and mains transformers from the tube version and decided to use those up before designing a new chassis from scratch.
To jeden z tých "nepresteliteľných a odolných proti jadrovému výbuchu" typov :)
Yes fix it
Interesting. The chassis looks like it was made to mount tubes.