How Many Fights does Shulk ACTUALLY Lose?
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- čas přidán 30. 12. 2021
- Let's end the year in style and release another video just to prove the haters wrong! I'm 95% certain I made at least one math error in at least one out of this and the Rex video, but if nobody notices who cares, right? Yes, I do have a math degree, but that doesn't all of a sudden mean I'm too good at arithmetic to ever be allowed to make mistakes again; I haven't done a math problem with actual numbers since high school.
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Luxin: “BORN IN A WORLD OF STRIFE!”
*releases spirits video*
Luxin: “AGAINST THE ODDS!”
*releases sympathies video*
Luxin: “WE CHOOSE TO FIGHT!”
*releases shulk loss video*
Luxin: “BLOSSOM DANCE!”
*PARTICIPATES IN XENOLYMPICS*
This made me laugh so hard!!
What for “blossom dance”?😹
And then wind the Xenoolympics
Good work, everyone!
Shulk getting more what you call bail-outs makes perfect sense for the story, since he spends most of the game being unknowingly guided by either Zanza or Alvis
Those instances are literally deus ex machina, since they are proper divine interventions.
Monado III is not a bail-out, and I don't see a valid argument to say otherwise.
Zanza was already on the back foot during that cutscene, and Shulk "finding the one true Monado" had been foreshadowed for the entire game.
Heck, Monado III and the "Kami" kanji that appears for the final blow are payoffs for about half a dozen different pieces of foreshadowing, so saying that any of it was unearned is absurd IMO.
Took the words out of my mouth. I always wonder why people complain about Zanza's appearance at the Core being jarring and out of place when the entire story is Zanza guiding Shulk to be in the right places at the right times with just enough power to keep going.
To be fair, he didn’t count it as a bail out exactly, probably for the reasons you bring up here. But it’s still very sudden and doesn’t exactly feel earned. Like, it just happens, similar to learning new arts. The most logical explanation is that Alvis just…made it happen, which again is similar to the stuff that happened before.
The argument being made in favour of these bail outs is that Shulk himself didn’t win these fights. Someone else intervened to make sure he could.
@@yamigianor6750 The problem with the Zanza twist isn’t that it’s out of nowhere. I’d argue it was foreshadowed, and isn’t unexpected…but the problem is that it adds nothing to the story. It takes away the interesting conflict between the protagonist and antagonist and makes the rest of the game more hallow in comparison. It even destroys Dickson as a character, making him a generic bad guy with as much complexity as a lackey to the real big bad.
And Zanza himself is just a powerhungry god. How original. I don’t think the game was amazing before this, but it at least felt like it was trying to do something interesting. This just loses all of that in exchange for a boring cliche end game that doesn’t feel earned at all.
@@studio_1 Klaus is right there, are you kidding. Zanza allows Xenoblade 2 to have all the more weight and is very integral to the story and it wouldn't exist if it were not for him.
@@HollowPurple-if2co Still doesn’t make Zanza himself any more deep. I’m not giving him a pass cause another game fixed his character.
Another argument in favor of treating Zanza as a win: Shulk having his own Monado is explicitly stated by Alvis in a vision as far back as the end of Colony 6. While it can't be planned for, per se, it was clearly foreshadowed.
Personally, for the final boss, I think it counts as a win regardless of the all the explanation since it's pretty clear Zanza is struggling to beat the party even before the Monado III enters the picture. Monado III just solidifies the party's victory. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
I actually think that the first telethia in makna forest should be a win, because Alvis clearly knew about Monado purge, and he’s a party member for this fight alone. Due to the rules stated, since one of the party members for that fight knew about the power, it should be a win, since even though Alvis only fights in that one battle, he is still a party member who knew about the ability the party would be granted
He only joins for that fight after the cutscene where he unlocks Purge, though. So I'm not sure it would count in that sense.
@@WhyFi59 A party member for one fight is still technically a party member, and thus, since a party member knew about the bailout, it isn't actually a bail out
@@greatestbud750 That's not my issue with it; my issue is that he only joined *after* he unlocked Purge to save Shulk. He wasn't in the party before then. Otherwise, we should consider the Metal Face encounter outside the Ether Mine a success as well, since Alvis is the one who saves the party and he knows about Telethia and has his own controllable one.
@@WhyFi59 Again, good point, but I do still feel like it should be a victory. Party members who only join for one fight should be treated based on that one fight, like with Dickson. Alvis saving the party outside colony 6 shouldn't count because he isn't fighting alongside them, the telethia just shows up, bails them out, and they don't even see Alvis, even though he bailed them out. Compare that to the telethia. Shulk has seen Alvis, spoken with him, and then the telethia appears. While I would definitely agree if Alvis just showed up out of nowhere AFTER the telethia appeared, the fact that he shows up BEFORE it appears, makes this a win. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this, as with a topic like this, there are going to be some points of contention
@@greatestbud750 I do see your point, it is a bit of a nuanced issue yes. Ultimately I still think it goes along with Luxin's point that Shulk gets all Monado arts apart from Cyclone and the optional ones completely out of nowhere without any effort, especially if we consider the endgame knowledge that Alvis is the embodiment of the Monado itself, hence, him unlocking Purge personally is no different from Shield or Speed unlocking themselves out of nowhere (in Speed's case, Shulk even questions himself whether he can save Sharla and Alvis' voice speaks to him that he can). But yes, you definitely have a point from a "characters in a fight win that fight" point of view.
Not going to disagree with you. I do think randomly obtaining these powers should still count as a loss. However, I do have a thought. Aren't these powers given to Shulk because he wills it? He doesn't realize it, but just by thinking "I wish I had a way to stop this" isn't he manipulating the world around him with the Monado? He creates a way to prevail.
Like the Alvis teaching Shulk purge, I'd say it's because Shulk doesn't understand what the problem is. He can't change the world around him because he doesn't know what's wrong... You can say, like, if he has control then why doesn't he just make it dead? Or not exist? But I'd say Skulk doesn't know he has such control over the universe.
I dunno. Maybe that's giving it too much credit.
These powers are bestowed upon him by Zanza. Shulk's ability to use the Monado and the visions that he had all came from Zanza, and this was confirmed by Dickson in the cutscene where Zanza is fully awakened. Therefore, he was unlocking these abilities in the most convenient moments because Zanza needed him to stay alive until after the confrontation with Egil. Therefore, it's a bit of a stretch to say that it's an asspull when Shulk was housing the soul of the Monado's master who is also a god. These moments where Shulk randomly unlocks these abilities are meant to serve as a mystery that would then be answered by the end of the game rather than events that could be disregarded as an asspull. I don't think it's an asspull when all of the events in the game until the last arc was orchestrated by Zanza, and Zanza's plan hinges on Shulk surviving and becoming stronger.
If these moments where Shulk unlocks a new ability don't count as a win for him, then it would be accurate for them to be a win for Zanza. I think it's a stretch for them to be a loss for Shulk, but I don't think it's a win for Shulk.
@@Naruxos07 Well, yes and no. Remember, and Dickson won't admit it, is that Zanza was supposed to possess Shulk's body at the end of the day, and what was supposed to happen. But ultimately that plan fails. Which is what leads to Dickson doing what he did. Also remember, Alvis is interacting with Shulk, independently from Zanza, to where he doesn't even know about the whole thing of Shulk getting his own true Monado.
So who knows, maybe Zanza wanted to take over his body earlier, but Shulk didn't allow it. Perhaps wanted to throw in some early deus-ex-machina to Shulk earlier, but he wouldn't allow it. Until he gives in to his desires/is desperate of wanting too much power from the Monado. Such as releasing the shackles on the previous host Zanza was in. Too many things to call into question here. Although with Alvis, and how he taught him to use Purge, and how the Monado works, the previous times probably was just ultimately him asspulling his previous victories still.
Monado III shulk was clearly built up over time. Even so far back as Fallen Arm, he'd been using his own strength to power the monado. Cyclone is a byproduct of that and his breakdown in the Core is definitely the same thing
Forget the haters luxin, I love your videos and just listening to you ramble and overthink every tiny detail in xeno games. Hell, you’re the reason why I shaved today!
He can't see you
@@BranJohn98 Its the top comment. I think he saw it
@@sushi287 I mean he can't see his face
@@BranJohn98 what I meant was that this video gave me something to watch for 20 minutes which is how long it takes for me to shave.
I would like to see the most over the top, over analyzed video on the most trivial Xenoblade stuff. Like how Eryth Sea can lie on top of Makna or the Newtons of force Shulk had to use to stop Yaldabaoth's or Noskcid's sword or what the fuck is wrong with DE Otharon's eyes or going into detail into the Noponic Cartel/Mafia
Or the fact that Eryth "sea" is more like a lake
The geography of the Bionis is fucking ridiculous, most of the time you’re walking horizontally and somehow you end up travelling upwards from the leg all the way to the head. It’s less of a problem in the Mechonis because the design there feels more vertical
Probably should have added a fourth 'bail-out' category for the count. Would've made things clearer IMO
Does it count as a deus ex machina if you are the god?
Luxin: *mass uploading out of spite*
TheRussianBadger: "What did I tell you? Bullying works"
the monado giving Shulk seemingly random arts to win is actually the passage of fate putting everything and everyone where they need to be for Zanza to return but that still doesnt excuse how cheap it feels in the moment especially when you are playing blind
Spite is the most powerful motivator in existence
You'll need to do this for Noah in XC3
Shulk having "asspull" wins or having wins unearned makes total sense in the story of 1, so I see no issue with it. But you were sounding like it was the end of the world for some reason.
No he didn't, he just called it for what it is. You didn't like that because you're emotionally immature and can't handle criticism of things you like.
@@mechadracula3193 ok
@@mechadracula3193 you need to chill out
@@sirdiesalot7626I don't value your opinion
@@mechadracula3193 unnecessary criticism is fucking useless and does nothing but start wars. You Xenoblade fans have issues. Get a job. I literally can’t even enjoy my favourite game series anymore without some person coming along saying I shouldn’t enjoy it for “this” or “that” reason. Immature? That’s what this entire fanbase is. Full of immature man-children.
I completely disagree with the monado arts being "asspulls." They're all foreshadowed, and don't get me wrong, they are frustrating at the time, but when you get to the end they're all actually explained why they happen. If it feels like shulk has plot armor, it's because he does, and the game knows this, and justifies it. Calling it an asspull is doing the game a disservice and completely ignoring context.
In the over-arcing story they are important, I'll agree with Lux that in the moment they seem abit like ass pulls
Idk man it kinda just seems like your huffing copium.
@@elbeak7493 or he's just wrong lol
Yea, as much as on a first playthrough they may seem like asspulls, all of the monados power is zanzas power. Though you could say the moment in which alvis teaches shulk purge is an asspull. It is literally the monado itself showing up to teach him how to use it when zanza hasnt granted him that power. However, even then alvis' actions at the end are seen as a betrayal by zanza so we could be operating under the assumption that alvis and zanza are in direct contact. At this point all of this is conjecture though.
It also would make sense for Shulk to learn the arts during emotional distress. Also, counting purge, although it is taught to shulk before a fight is just complete bs and makes the creator just look like a hypacrit, especially after not counting mythra appearing as a complete asspull.
Zanza quite literally states that the Monado is able to alter ether and reality to the will of its master. Shulk needed something save someone, the Monado gave him that something.
In the moment learning Monado Arts out of nowhere seems like an asspull, and I agree that a literal weapons researcher should acquire arts through studying the Monado, but they’re not asspulls in the grand scheme of things. (Spoilers for the end of the game)
Zanza is doing whatever he needs to to keep Shulk alive until Zanza gains the strength to exist without using Shulk as a vessel. That’s why Shulk even got the visions in the first place when Dunban didn’t; Zanza allowed Dunban to use the Monado to drive the Mechon back up until the battle of Sword Valley, but Zanza wanted Shulk to be the one to take it up and be guided to the Mechonis to kill Egil and crush any opposition before Zanza awoke. That’s what Shulk learning Monado Arts spontaneously is in my eyes: Zanza gradually bestowing more of his power on Shulk so his vessel can survive until he’s ready to awaken
tbf, shulk getting saved constantly by dei ex machina actually makes plot sense
I just realized that Deus Ex Machina is quite literally applicable to the story of Xenoblade 1
Just recently found your channel! Super underrated! I'm starved for xeno content great work
Going to go out on a limb for the three early Monado bailouts and try to make a case for them in a way that isn’t “it’s fate” or “it’s Alvis/Zanza”. Those are cases of “Makes sense but not compelling” to me, and I think I have something.
I won’t really defend how Shulk just wills these Arts out of nowhere(In the writing, buildup and payoff sort of way anyway, the plot reasons still exist), but the criteria for the bail-outs counting as loses seemed to be asspulls or deus ex machinas that completely bailed the party out and won them the fight. But that’s not really true for the three encounters. Yes they prevent an unwinnable situation or certain death, but the party still has to fight them afterwards and win. Even when viewing the cutscenes themselves, only Speed really comes close to being an impossibly OP steroid that makes it impossible for them to lose. Even then, if you’re really charitable, you could argue that the characters still had to move precisely and properly like they would normally when fighting, just they can move fast enough to dodge those specific attacks now. The other two are much less of win buttons. Shield is only really seen blocking what ends up being the Talent Art of the Aracno. Even the second attack it does in the cutscene doesn’t bonk off of Reyn like the Talent Art did and he had to guard it like normal. The cutscene itself shows that it doesn’t work on everything. Meanwhile, Purge only removed the Mind Read of the Telethia, and Shulk had to fight it like it was anything else afterward. Same applied with the party later on in Makna. Don’t forget these are Telethia too that they had to fight. It’s not only the mind reading that makes them strong both in story and in gameplay.
Speaking of story and gameplay, I think you can make this a lot more interesting and compelling when you apply gameplay-story integration to it. Just like in the cutscenes, there are attacks these new abilities completely neuter, yet they aren’t win buttons and they don’t work on everything. But it’s really the gameplay that communicates that there’s a margin of error and an amount of strategizing when using them. Shulk used these properly and everything the first time in a deus ex machine moment, but who said he mastered them on first use? Who said he’d start nailing these abilities to neuter the appropriate things all the time? Well he might, but he still has to work to use them properly because they don’t work on everything and there is a margin of error. Not to mention not being able to use multiple of them repeatedly for the most part, which I believe is consistent in cutscenes and in gameplay.
I get using this as legitimate reasoning and not just a nice bonus in gameplay is iffy because there isn’t one fixed playthrough for everyone like there are fixed cutscenes that are the same for everyone. But regardless of how well or badly someone does and across everyone playing the game, there still is that underlying need to strategize and that potential for mistakes that would still present in the “canonical” version of events. Even if those has him winning everything and not failing a single use(which would fit the criteria in the video for a win as there would be deliberate strategizing around an ability).
That in mind, him getting these abilities out of thin air is still not very compelling, but I think having to work to continue using them properly throughout the journey against ramping threats is still plenty compelling. Or if you’re not counting any gameplay implications, at least win the encounter itself because only one or two things the boss can do are neutered. I do think a number of Xenoblade 2’s instances are handled better, but you can’t finagle this type of thing out of stuff like the Aegises making you unable to die.
XC2 was definitely the worst of losing in cutscenes yet winning in gameplay.
I hated fighting Morág since I wanted to see how she would react to losing to Rex
Years later and others have said it but I like how the deus ex machina is a literal story point with zanza making sure that Shulk succeeds
So, we gonna do one of these for XC3?
I just imagine the Xenobois fighting over who caught more Ls.
Just watched both video and now i think we need one for 3 too
Luxin you’ve been pumping em out! Congrats man! Let the trolls rage
3 Xeno videos within a week, this was a welcome surprise 😁
Looking forward to the next one. 😁
Thanks for your vids!! Always a good watch
I really liked the voice lines, they made me chuckle more than I needed too.
Love the edited Shulk sounds, perfectly chosen
I've been wanting to watch more Luxin videos the past few days and now we got 3
I didn't expect that This is Thancred lmao. Good video :)
Happy new years luxin
Happy New Years!
Absolute chad, this is the opposite of a dead channel. This is an alive channel, no it's a LIVING CHANNEL. Great video dude
Shulk’s early game survival depending on bailouts by Deus Ex Machina makes sense given that Zanza wants to keep his future vessel alive and also explains his future winning streak. His learning of Monado Arts reflects his status as an unknowing puppet of Zanza, he doesn’t get to make his own, he’s given them. It’s only after Alvis cuts the strings and sets him free that he can make his own Monado Art.
While Shulk is a literal chosen one being tossed between two reality shaping beings, Rex is just a kid, a regular person before he meets Pyra.
I agree that they never properly show Shulk struggling against the Apocrypha Generator, which they could easily have done by Shulk looking more winded and exhausted during battle scenes, maybe even needing to be bailed out by Reyn a few times. I always saw its effect as Shulk needing to amplify the Monado’s output with raw willpower to the point that the generator doesn’t cancel out its powers anymore (like a fancy radio jammer)
Happy 2022 Luxin
Now to do the Noah fight wins
I agree that xc1 has a lot of Deus ex machina turns to fights, but I think all but monado speed fit into the theme of thr game
Seeing shulk get shield when he does really gives you this idea of "wow so shulk can change the future on the fly"
Speed is more of the same pretty much so it doesn't hit as hard
Purge I think is beautiful, cuz it actually gives the player more questions than answers and looking at the scenario from the perspective of a first time player really helps seeing it this way
Cool vid tho, very glad I watched it
Luxin: STRIKE WITH ALL THE PLAGUES
What I'm about to say is entirely subjective and mostly my opinion, but I feel like the level of intelligence and ingenuity is higher across Shulk's permanent party than it is Rex's. So, it doesn't really bother me when Shulk has an asspull victory because I feel like, given enough time to fall back and regroup, they would find a solution of their own. Meanwhile I feel like Rex's party just kind of relies on Rex's hope that things will work out, so even under the same stipulation they just feel less capable to me for a lot of the game. I'm not gonna say Rex never thinks his way out of problems, but things like collapsing a water tower aren't going to help against real threats, you know? Like, Rex has the entire game to think on what Jin and Malos are capable of considering how early he meets them and then just...seemingly is almost never prepared to deal with how strong they are? I just never get the feeling he's even thinking on it until so late in the game. (Edit: I could be wrong about that, there's a lot to remember when talking about these games and I'm not 100% confident he never brings it up.) And I feel like thats something Shulk would actively have on his mind the whole journey were the situations reversed, and I kind of just feel like, even if Shulk still lost in Rex's situations, the loss would be lesser? Because Shulk, being pessimistic, would probably be prepared to end up in an unwinnable situation?
In complete fairness, Malos is damaged, and therefore unable to unleash his full powers for most of the game. So how exactly are you going to plan on fighting someone, who may or may not be back to full power the next time you meet him? Same with Jin, considering Rex never directly fights him until Temperantia, and including Morag and Zeke, as they may have never met him in person. Such as how Morag compliments Zeke, seeing his full power, and seeing him for the first time. Also Jin not pulling out his full power before on anyone, and that no one talks about it, or no one living afterwards to tell about it.
I mean, you're most likely right, all until the Cliffs of Morytha. He knows that Jin and Malos are very strong, and that winning against Jin, let alone both him and Malos at the same time, is next to none. But he knows what he must do for Pyra and Mythra, and obtain the true 3rd Aegis Sword from them, which is what he needs to turn the tides to their favor. That and I guess getting Shulk-esque like visions from the shell of the 3rd Aegis Sword, probably gave him some ideas of what to do.
So with that, and him knowing that they don't have to worry about Malos own destructive powers, as long as Nia is around. He was pretty confident on getting her back, as he needed for those two to be held off long enough for him to get his own Aegis back, and bring out their true power. As his one on one clash against Jin, for the most part, has shown, is that he's learned and adapted to most of Jin's strengths and speed. Well, until he decides to use full power, and blitz Rex at the speed of light again. But even without that, Jin proven previously of how much trouble he is to fight against, even before the light speed powers came in. Still, he held Jin off on his own, without Mythra's Foresight to boot.
Also gotta say, you're overselling Shulk and his team, when it comes to the ingenuity, and arguably the intelligence department. Like, Shulk was studying the Monado, for like, what, a whole year? And he only just recently figures out that the Monado is multi-layered glass in the middle, showing it has capabilities of more Monado arts. And Shulk barely even thinks of ways of getting that kind of power up to help out, during moments he sees in his visions, than he is trying his best to not end up in those situations in the first place. You know, he doesn't question "hey, can the Monado have a power to help me out here in what I saw in my vision?" Instead, it's "how do I prevent Reyn from being so far away from me, and being chased by spiders?" Hell, even after Alvis tells him how to do things, such as he can will things into existence, if he thinks hard enough, he doesn't really practice it all that much. Until the fallen arm, considering how much he was sitting duck, if he kept fighting the way he was.
Reyn. He's just way too straight forward thinking.
Fiora. Well, asides from the Meyneth part, she can't really stop thinking about Shulk.
Sharla. Other than that one time healing Melia, hasn't really been all that useful, or as smart thinking.
Melia. Arguably for the one reason of her not doing more of the full ether blasts, like she does when she destroyed that Telethia. Which would be helpful on the daily basis.
Riki. Well, as we should already know when we only look at the main story, he's just only there to pay off his debt. With only that one scene, where he made sure Melia was well rested.
Other than that, they're kind of average meddling in intelligence, when it comes to combat. With Dunban being the most experienced out of the bunch. That otherwise relies too heavily on Shulk's visions. Hell, even their defense against the Telethia before Shulk wakes up, was more of a losing battle, the moment Dickson brought out the bigger boys of Telethias on them.
@@byronlyons3548 Your perspective is fair, but I do still personally feel differently.
even if Shulk's entire party is middling in intelligence, Tora and Zeke are...not smart (outside of very specialized information.) Nia also is shown to suffer from impulsivity more often than stopping and thinking, which only really leaves Morag to count on to hold back and consider options, and I somehow feel like she does that less once she joins the party. Then there's pyra/mythra who are just...too wrapped up in themselves to help in any way other than just directly using their power. I do get it but I just feel like if they were asked to solve an issue unrelated to themselves, they would have no way to focus on that because they are so preoccupied with their own existence. The other respective party blades as well, while having their own personalities and quirks, are similar enough to their masters for me to not feel I have to go in depth about them.
Not counting any optional content, Shulk used his weapons knowledge and memories of his journey to remake his own monado arts and create unique powers the original monado never gave him in future connected. I don't think just anyone could do that. Whats more, the entirety of future connected is actually a super easy example of Shulk seeing an insurmountable problem, and relying primarily on himself and his ingenuity to solve it. You could argue its unfair to use future connected events for this comparison, but I don't personally think so.
Also, whether the game makes use of this point or not, Sharla does have actual training in combat and an understanding of ether that is likely better than anyone (sans melia.) The game simply does not care about her. If anything thats a point against the game's writing imo.
I think you are very right about the others (though I do think you undersell Melia) but as I sort of stated earlier, I just don't find most of Rex's party to be consistently reliable problem solvers, and the ways in which they are saved by random unexpected powers somehow bother me personally more than any convenient monado power unlock.
Like, the whole 3rd aegis sword thing as well imo is not a point in Rex's favor. Rex didn't find an answer to the problem, Rex got told "hey theres this hidden thing that I know about and no one else does. anyway go there and you'll be able to solve all your problems." He does obviously prove himself and grow as a character in order to obtain strength there, but that solution was as contrived as any monado art, from my perspective. And even then its like, they only actually got through that situation because Nia happened to be concealing her true self the entire journey. It does feel super cool in the moment, I really like that whole segment of the story actually, but when you think on it out of context it just makes the party look really inept. Rex's party can't even get a convenient new power without needing to rely on a convenient new power.
I guess, at the end of the day, the real difference that makes me feel like Rex's party is just less able, is that I feel like Shulk's monado based powers correct unfairness he couldn't possibly prepare for otherwise, while Rex's party's various powers correct issues he didn't consider but probably could've imagined as worst case scenarios. Shulk can't be reasonably expected to know they were so close to a giant spider's nest, but Rex could reason "when I try to solve this issue keeping me from elysium, its probably going to attract attention from people I historically can't beat head on. oh well salvager's code #69: if you don't wanna die, pull out a new power to try." I do greatly enjoy both games, but I feel like both stories want to do different things, and what xc2 was going for ends up giving the vibe that the party spent a lot of time being incapable (although this is done in a way that works and isn't a negative to the overall narrative imo.)
@@Namingway248 But with Zeke, other than when he's being goofy, he knows how to really fight and catch on things before others do, when he gets serious. As we've seen during the 3rd fight against him. He's just as capable as Morag and Dunban. Just that Morag unlike the others, has soldiers she can command, although because she wasn't exiled by a sort of overreacting father, like Zeke did.
That's only true to Nia until a certain chapter, where she reveals the truth about herself. Afterwards, she doesn't second guess herself anymore, and uses her powers without hesitation.
I feel like you're forgetting parts of what Pyra and Mythra do throughout the story. Pyra is the one to stop Rex idea of attacking the front gates of the Ardainian base, at Torigoth, and instead suggests going on the ship from below. Mythra tells Rex how Foresight works, in such a short time, so he can use it properly. Mythra suggesting placing the Tornan members in a certain spot at the secret harbor, of the abandoned factory. So she can blasts the weak spot with Siren's laser, to where it doesn't need to collapse the place onto their heads. And then Pyra telling how they should head out to the far end port, just to get closer to use Pneuma to hit the towers on Indoline. With Poppi's boosters to help them get even closer for the shot.
Speaking of Poppi, part of why Tora is very smart. Such as him using the plan blueprints details, so as to be able to track down the bad guys who are using his father and his artificial blade Lila. Tora going with Morag's plan on saving up Ether, so as to use Poppi to help break out of possible prison that prevents normal blades from operating normally. Which proves Morag, even after joining the party, is still just as useful and tactical as she was before joining.
Now what suggests that the original Monado wouldn't be capable of doing what Shulk's Monado Replica EX (REX) does? Since the original is said to be capable of bending reality to the users will, which the Monado III definitely displayed such feat in full. Besides, it could just use a whole lot of Ether, to damage the Fog King, like Melia does. Or use it to close the rift that was powering the Fog King in the first place. If you're talking about the first replica Monado he got, then sure.
And I'm not entirely sure Shulk made the Monado Replica EX by himself, considering he has blue prints to work off of, and probably had help from the Machina anyway. Since they made the one he used before having Monado III in the first place. Which they also helping him, by mentioning what is affecting the Fog King, which lead to him wanting to slap some Ether crystals on his Monado REX to upgrade it. Like sure, he's shown making weapons before, and if not fixing some of them. But most of it was weapons for homs to use, normally, typical Colony gear stuff.
Ok, where's the random unexpected powers you speak of? Cause unlike with the main cast with Shulk, there is pretty much none for Rex and the gang. As the previous video shows, they've survived on their own merits more often than not. Hell, it's worse that Shulk and the others relied too much into the convenient Monado powers, to the point Dickson would have killed the group when defending Colony 6. Until Shulk waked up, and retains visions, as he was on his way of getting Monado III. Rex with his Mythra and Pneuma power up, is about as expected as Shulk's Monado Arts. Except hinted at multiple times, and very clearly at that. So you know, pretty much earned, unlike most of the Monado Arts.
Except he did, if you bothered paying attention. Unlike the previous Aegis Driver, he not only figures out the truth of Pyra/Mythra's feelings, but fully accepts them, power and all. Such as the nature of Driver and Blade. Which is what they needed, to use the 3rd Aegis sword. And only was he led to the fake one, when he was ready, with courage to and knowledge to meet the girls all the through. Any half baked bond between him and them, would have led to him being shocked, like Dunban with the Monado, but without the host shenanigans.
Also no? It's a power she had this whole time, that she even herself has shown and hinted at before. Unlike Monado arts, which aren't shown being used at all in visions. So if you want contrived "convenient new power", it was with the Monado arts more than anything. And as the video here explained, was more unearned, than Nia finally revealing her true self, and being accepted. Unlike the Nia part there, nothing built up to the Monado Arts being used or learned, not like Alvis teaching him Purge. And it makes Shulk and the gang look even worser, if we fully accept the asspull reason of it being all according to Zanza's keikaku. As it shows them being more incapable. Also you're forgetting they're in a place that's sucking everyone but Tora's Ether energy, therefore making everyone much weaker than they would be throughout that fight. The fact that Rex got a golden tether with Nia in that fight, truly speaks how strong they ultimately are, and the bonds with their blades.
Except, the fact is that he very much could have. If you know, he told the others much sooner. Such as Reyn saving Otharon. So yes, you can very much prevent the unfairness there, without always relying on asspulls from the Monado. Just that again, Shulk is sometimes half of his own problems (go figure), with the lack of warning others more than just himself.
Again, what are these "various powers" you speak of, that Rex and the gang use? Which you seem to be grasping straws with, as the evidence presents otherwise. And yes he could. Or did you forget the dead soldiers, and them running into spiders, before going further into the cave that leads to their situation? And as I said, he could have said to Reyn what he saw. Reyn may be straight forward too much, but he doesn't have rocks for brains.
Rex isn't given Foresight 24/7, like Shulk does visions. So I don't understand this parody strawman argument here.
And are you sure they are incapable, or are you just forgetting what they did? Because that's what it seems to be boiling down to, after reading everything you've said.
@@byronlyons3548 I never said the monado couldn't do what the monado ex does, I said that Shulk created powers for it that he was never given by the monado. You seem to getting really upset at me while also making bad faith arguments that I literally never said.
have you watched the digimon or pokemon anime? You know those creatures change and get stronger yes? Of course you do, everyone does. And every issue in those anime is solved by them releasing higher power and evolving at the most convenient moments. It wouldn't be a stretch to say this is bad writing and becomes unexciting over time. This is what I am calling a "random power up." It doesn't *matter* you come into those narratives understanding the premise which is that almost all of the respective creatures can do it, that doesn't make it compelling and that doesn't make the victory feel earned in the way a normal one would. Its a solution that might as well have randomly fell from the sky to solve the specific problem ahead of them. Characters who need to release a new power mid fight as they see it as the only way to win: pyra, mythra, rex, zeke (as an enemy and to his detriment), poppi, and nia. Could argue Vandam does it too honestly. If you apparently expect everyone to remember the stories to 2 100+ hour rpgs in complete detail, (or did you "forget what they did?") I shouldn't have to point out exactly when each of those are. And you can sit here like "its not a new power they had it the whole time, its hinted at or explained later" yeah, it is new. That power or transformation or whatever tactic it happens to be is written to be used as a way out of the conflict at that point in the script. Its meant to be new to you, its meant to be flashy, it doesn't matter if they wrote in explanations around it. Its the exact same narrative tool that is meant to give you dopamine and feel cool when you get a new monado technique, but its a cheap narrative tactic used to make weak story beats feel more "epic."
I already said and admitted right out the gate tora and zeke are intelligent when it comes to specific matters. You are choosing to ignore that to make me look like I am making bad faith "strawman" arguments when I literally already agreed with you.
You also act like Shulk has full control of his visions and gets a ton of them super ahead of time when that's just not the case? Other than the otharon vision the majority of what he sees throughout the plot is midway in the heat of battle, or very soon before conflict starts. Not only is this narratively true, but him telling people as soon as possible as to change the future is a literal gameplay mechanic that activates in almost every fight. You chose literally the only instance he hides his visions, and its also the plot point where Shulk grows as a person and learns thats exactly what he shouldn't do, and thats like, what, maybe an hour into the game?
One way or another though I made it clear from the very first sentence I wrote that most of what I had to say was subjective and mostly my opinion. Ultimately, its my *opinion* that Shulk has a more capable group. There is no exact metric or specific instance in which it can be 100% proven or disproven that one party is more capable than the other. They have entirely different journeys with entirely different circumstances. If you're going to sit here and assume that all of my arguments are parody and strawman while also pretending I made claims or statements entirely different from what I actually said, I see no reason to continue to engage with you. You have every right to feel however you want to about these games and draw whatever conclusions you want. I have the right to do the same.
@@Namingway248 Except not really. It seems similar to Enchant, in which the Fog King isn't hittable, about as much as normal weapons bounced off of Mechons. With Melia being the only one to bypass that with her abilities to use Ether attacks, and high Ether power. Also the Machina did give the first replica the ability to use Monado arts Shulk had used before. So while it's cool he put one in himself to use on the Fog King. But not so much when the Machina have done that for most of the other Monado arts.
I mean, if you want to read it that way, then sure. But it sounds like you getting more upset that I point out some of the things you're saying, that comes out like bad faith arguments. Whether or not you're joking or not. Like the unnecessary Rex bit, at the end of your last reply.
You see, there's a big flaw in your analogy. In that unlike the Monado arts, where visions don't show them ever on being learned. Those shows at least establishes pretty early on that you should expect it on them. Like yeah, that's pretty much the basics of them, of evolving makes them more powerful. So can't say "convenient", when it's something you've come to expect. What is convenient, like Monado arts, is when Pokemon don't evolve/Digimon going back to previous digi-evolution, and then winning a fight their evolved forms struggle normally in. Pokemon also establishes that early on, so it isn't as jarring as the show goes on. Digimon, not so much.
Again, you really aren't answering these "random power ups" you are talking about in XC2. So it seems you're forgetting what happens in the game, and putting in your own narrative of what you think happened in it, when that isn't the case. Also like I'm saying, they are shown capable of them most of the time. But as Rex along with the Aegis girls do most of the time, is holding back so as to not outright harm or kill someone. And despite that, they still kill the final boss by accident, even though they had intentions on saving them from themselves. It's like the 3rd Zeke fight thing I was talking about, that you've obviously ignored. Plus things like Mythra, and 3rd Aegis sword is made very clear on being a thing, and powerful as they are told to be. So no, they aren't really new, when they tell you beforehand, multiple times. Unlike with the Monado, where it isn't properly told until Alvis states it, after having gone through two Monado Arts, unearned.
And remember, their power operates based on how strong the bond/connection is between Driver and Blade, and that they grow stronger the more deeper their connection is. And that's why Pyra and Mythra gains a power that the final boss cannot, due to how their connection is with a certain asshole.
And before you say I don't recall all that well about the game, then you can stop right there. I've already watched multiple streams on XC2, and recently finished Chuggaaconroy's Let's Play of the game. That he was able to finally finish before Christmas last year. So it's more fresh in my mind for certain.
Yeah, but you go on saying they're "incapable", when they shown a couple of times of them handling things without Rex. Even after halfway through the game. Where as the Main cast of 1, where the times they did something without Shulk, is Reyn, again, saving Otharon by small explanations Shulk finally gave that one time. And the others beating the Bionite Order that tried to assassinate them in that comfy "jail cell." Which, kind of is before the halfway point of the game.
Even with how vague they are, he should have no problems figuring out what they mean. Which he does a couple of times, like Melia being in trouble at the High Entia Tomb. Other times, he overthinks about it too much, and second guesses himself and everything. Also again, Reyn figuring out the Otharon one, when he mentioned about the Ether river, which was enough for Reyn to put it together when they got to the place. And he has seen the others multiple times, sometimes even with more details than before. With only things such as Fallen Arm and onwards where he sort of sees less, or stops seeing them entirely, and more of "feels" for them. If you didn't catch on, I mean cutscenes, where most of the tragic, or crazy situations happen in, rather than gameplay.
So? You can have your opinion, but doesn't exempt you from criticism, when it's called for. And I'm just simply pointing out some of the bad faith arguments you've made. Is that hard to understand? You did say it yourself on how you don't recall everything in XC2. So, I'm explaining to you how certain things aren't as you recall them being as. And why Luxin says the things he does in this video, with better detail and context.
While maybe you can't 100% have the perfect metric on how to tell that. Although it's better to stick with the facts we know so far, as shown throughout the games, rather than going off on tangents and bad faith arguments. Like you did with your last reply at the end, as I've said. Honestly that part was pretty childish. Even with how you're ending with this one too. So I ask again, are you sure you aren't the one that's upset here? Either way, if you don't want to respond, that's fine. But if you do plan on responding, at least don't end it again like this. And cool it with some of these bad faith arguments, that don't really do anyone any good. All it does is make it a pain for those who have to properly explain these things, and mislead those who don't get this explained to them by the time they are done with needing to know.
Good, Good! Let the spite flow through you! Show those haters who's boss Luxin!
while I did find this video entertaining, the take that shulk won his fights in a "cheap way" feels like an incredibly reductionist take of the game's story and misses the point of the monado as a plot point.
Not only are those wins/art gains useful from a gameplay standpoint of introducing the player to the new mechanics, but they also serve a good story point about how the Monado is the only hope the Homs have for their world. It hits even harder when the game's twist occurs later, which really sells why Shulk gets so depressed while looking back at his journey. It elevated the story a lot more when you the player look back and realize that the "asspulls" had more than one meaning, and that perhaps you the player were on the wrong side of history and makes the twist all the more interesting.
A true asspull wouldnt have so much to do with the story and mechanics that the game is trying to set up.
I've seen a lot of fans of xenoblade 1 criticize its story in a way that they'd view anime and I believe that this trend doesn't hold a whole lot of weight when analyzed further.
Again, it was an entertaining video. I'm honestly surprised how low the loss rate was- when I went through the game I felt like every battle was framed in a way that was uphill for shulk and friends up until they got the monado II, and even then they had to work for it. I also feel as if the fact that the stakes were so high also lends itself to the narrative of Xenoblade- they literally need miracles to survive.
I guess overall I'm surprised that fans of the game consider what makes the story of xenoblades 1 as compelling as it is a weak point because Shulk "cheated in a fight".
12:25 I must say I disagree somewhat with this statement. Rex's final boss canonically (as per the final blow cutscene) requires basically the Pneuma version of the Monado III, so in a sense, it's an exact mirror of how Shulk kills Zanza (that's very much intentional imo). So it still requires somewhat of an overpowered hand-me-down, although Rex had his for a long time already by the time they reach the final boss while Shulk got his in the middle of fighting Zanza.
But, just like as others here are saying about the Zanza fight, even without that final blow power up, the final boss was on the losing end as it were. Also just saying, Pneuma herself, outside and before that final blow moment, is already a Monado III as it were.
@@byronlyons3548 I don't know if Zanza was on the losing end. Mentally, sure, he was absolutely on the losing end of that battle. But he's still a god, he probably doesn't take any actual damage from regular attacks, he's just incredulous that mere mortals are even able to stand against him and not be immediately obliterated. I wager that he probably could win by attrition (the party would eventually be too tired to fight and make mistakes) were it not for Alvis' intervention.
As for Pneuma, you're absolutely right, the "third sword" itself is the Monado III equivalent, I was just stating the final blow part to establish a parallel to Xenoblade 1 and due to the fact that, without that cutscene, you might be able to argue that Pneuma's powers weren't canonically required to beat the boss (even if you used her in gameplay). But since she shows up in the cutscene, that makes it canon.
Probably, it would be more accurate to say that the thing Pneuma does with the Siren beam and the wormhole is the Xeno 2 equivalent of the God kanji appearing on the Monado III, while she herself is the physical manifestation of that universe's Monado III.
need one of these for Xc3 now lmao
Wonder if the channel will have to die again to make that happen, anyone else down to make some alt's?
Listen I am a Xenoblade 2 fanboy but this seems a little too harsh on shulk just to make Rex look better imo. Shulk learning something or getting a power he did not have before is literally apart of the battle. Being saved by someone else is a result of shulk losing sure but his own powers being unlocked should not result in a loss.
Happy new Year everyone! Hope to get some news from one of our favourite franchise ,Xenoblade Chronicles this year🤗
And its also worth noting that Shulk never had to fight Jin
I would say that shulk's party would have won if shulk with the monado was there because I'm pretty sure because the other half of zanza was getting visions too or it was implied so i think he would have a pretty high chance of putting up a fight if he had speed by that point.
IF the monado was there not with the monado was there.
has thou ever heard of the legend they once called "The Four Great Ass Pulls"?
I like someone who can appreciate that arithmetic is not math. If it is, it's to the same extent that spelling is literature -- symbol manipulation necessary to convey the end result.
I'd argue that, although it's a frustrating way to drive forward a narrative, Shulk seemingly learning the Arts randomly is brought forward by Zanza inside him gaining more power, thus reclaiming more of the Monado. I still hate that the first time someone plays this game it really just is "lol here, have this power now"
Now I need a XB3: Future Redeem Shulk and Rex to versus each other.
So, when are you going to do this type of video for Xenoblade 3?
Xenogears wins and losses?
I’m really feeling it
Bottom text
Spite content always the best content, fuck the haters
Can't wait for the next Xenoblade cause we'll get more of this gold
Make one about Noah
You'd have a field day doing this for the trials games. Especially cold steel.
This is Thancred.
I personally don't agree with the notion that Shield, Speed, and Purge are asspulls as you claim they are. It has been properly foreshadowed that the Monado has other powers within it, it has been indicated in scenes of his visions of the future that he's actually interacted with Alvis, who asks if Shulk wishes to change the future. In fact, Monado Speed is something that activates when Shulk asks the Monado if he can save Sharla, to which Alvis actually replies that he can.
In all these instances, these are all Shulk being taught how to use the Monado, no different for when Rex somehow knows how to use Mythra and Pneuma's abilities without ever having trained for it.
If the Monado Arts are asspulls, then so are the awakenings of Mythra and Pneuma in XC2
His reasoning for them was that Malos knew about Mythra and Rex thought something would happen after getting the third sword
9:12 What do you mean by that? Bruh.
I thought about it and I hope of XC3 branch off from both 1 and 2 that it will be something like a digimon story cyber sleuth type of game where you can play both side or like scarlet nexus where the two stories are happening at the same time like it had been between the 1st and 2nd games
An asspull that geta retconned into a story beat is still an asspull guys. Come on now.
So I tried this with X
Spoilers (duh)
Origin Blatta: Win
Elder Grex + 2 Callow Grexes: Win
Volkampf the Pursuer: Win
Prone Mooks: Win
Glennar + Minions: Win
Prone Mooks: Win
Goetia: Win
3 Turrets: Win (not counting it as 3 wins since they're ostensibly the same fight)
Chief Qmoeva + 2 Platoon Qmoevas: Win
Tainted Sphinx: Win
3 Tainted Spinxes: Blatant loss; bailed out in almost the same way 1's party was after the Ether Mines with a Telethia Ex Machina
Crap ton of Qmoevas: Win
Almandal: Win
Holding the NLA Front Line: Success, which causes the Ganglion to move to an aerial strategy
Daghan and Ryyz: Win
Ga Jiarg, Ga Buidhe, and other Wrothians: Success, since the goal was to test the party's mettle
Vasara and Deva Caladar: Success, since the goal was to test the party's mettle
Zu Pharg: Win
Prog Ares: Win
Vita: Win
10 Chimeras: Win
Lao: Win
Not counting required Affinity Missions, we have 18 wins, 3 successes, and 1 loss. Counting required AMs adds on another 11-ish wins
Xenoblade X is really a success-story.
10:15 YOU'LL WILL PAY FOR YOU INSULIN
I’m sorry, if the Monada/Zanza/Alvis acting alone to grant Shulk what he needs to win through the Monado arts is an asspull and a loss, then the same should apply to Visions, which are the same, meaning that every fight where Shulk gets a vision (also known as every fight) should be a loss
can you do one of these for Noah? 👀
Shulk randomly getting monado arts is pretty thematically accurate, it's supposed to be an ass pull I feel
I mean the four "asspulls" wins are not really issues as that's literally Zanza handing Shulk powers because he needs Shulk to survive and also from his Hubris and such. So I don't see them as an issue as you seem to but they are loses for shulk that is correct. Just not really asspulls in the traditional sense
imo, even if they arent asspulls in the traditional sense, those situations are extremely convenient even if justified. (Specially if the justification feels like an indirect patchwork)
Huh. So shulk was bailed 3 times in a row by plot armor
IT WAS ONLY TWO WEEKS!! People need to calm down, fuck.
these comments are so funny. girl it is a wii game calm down. like yeah i'm not totally on board with all your takes but that does not really matter. it's an opinion vid. that's gonna happen. you did a good job of editing, backed up all your points, and clearly like what you do, so, like, good work man
The major difference is that the new monado powers come BEFORE the fight that is a major difference. Less infuriating than the sequel
Xenoblade has NOTHING on the Trails of Cold Steel series when it comes to MC losses... Cold Steel 1 and 2 are basicly defined by the player getting bailed out of fights by every major protagonist, or even antagonist in some cases! It gets a little better in Cold Steel 3 and 4, but half the battles are basicly just a test of not dying until someone shows up and evens the odds...
This has me thinking, are there any explicitly lost fights in Xenoblade X?
You could count the loss in noctilum in the nest, if the telethia didnt showed up, everyone could got killed
@@KARLOSPCgame I'd also count moments where the villains destroy parts of the Lifehold as well as when the mech found in chapter 6 got stolen.
@@KARLOSPCgame true. That ones a pretty clear cut deus ex
@@TheIvoryDingo the lifehold pieces sure. Tho Elma makes a case pretty in line with Luxin's criteria for a "success" since all they were trying to do was stop the city being destroyed.
Definitely the part where your character's arm gets blown off should be a loss.
Luxin’s next video how many fights did Rex lose
Shulk getting arts isn't an ass pulls the game literally shows why this happens
Would you Xenoblade X? It's part of xenoblade series
People actually made accounts just to harass you for content? Bruh that’s a new level of low, I swear to god. That’s so pathetic. I hope they’re ashamed of that. You’re a human being
Don't listen to the people telling you to upload more because you took a break for two weeks or whatever. Your mental health is more important than some random dipshits on the internet, take your deserved break.
I do see your point about Shulk obtaining the Monado arts.
Many would consider it to be harsh, but the L label works for me because for most of the game, it illustrates that he's following a path that two higher powers planned out for him
And Shulk's journey was about the conflict between seeing ominous visions of the future... and whether or not he'd be able to change it with the help of his friends, while seizing his destiny and making it his own.
The stakes in the scenes with Monado Shield, Speed and Purge always stood out to me because Shulk was struggling to change the terrible future that he saw, and it was clear that there was a lot at stake during those moments.
**Insert rude comment to expedite next video**
You can really feel the spite in this video
he can't lose!!!!
I haven’t seen anybody saying rude comments. You always mention them, though I have not seen a single one. Maybe it is because of top comments? I don’t know.
Personally I never understand why people hate "losing cutscenes/winning gameplay", I think it's far better than to be forced to lose in gameplay too (unkillable boss for exemple, but with exception when it's at the start/prologue).
I disagree. Winning in gameplay but losing in a cutscene creates a narrative dissonance between what the player experiences as the character and what they see the character do on their own. IMO, either the gameplay should change to accommodate the narrative (ie making certain bosses unwinable) or the narrative should change to accommodate the gameplay (ie making a different cutscene for if you manage to win a fight you were supposed to lose)
@@alenor210 well agree on disagree, I prefere a little ludonarrative dissonance than a poor playing experience which are for me your two options.
@@evanpereira3555 How is being able to win or lose a fight with diffrent outcomes a poor playing experience?
@@lpfan4491 to make the player lose devs usually make boss impossible to beat, which if done poorly is a bad experience (for example if this boss doesn't deal enough damages while you have a defensive build the fight became just a long agony).
It's this kind of thing I dislike, I prefer either ludonarrative dissonance or straight up being one or two hits by the ennemy.
@@evanpereira3555 (I mean, that's not what I was asking, but it is nice that you found an alternative to the other option)
Xenoblade x video next