The real Tyrion Lannister

  • čas přidán 1. 10. 2023
  • Tyrion Lannister is not who you think he is.
    Tyrion Q&A livestream: • ASX Podcast: Tyrion Q&A
    Alt Schwift X Tyrion rap: • Tyrion rap
    Get a free audiobook with an Audible trial:
    This is a censored version of the video. You can watch the uncensored version on Patreon:
    Subscribe: / @altshiftx
    Twitter: altshiftx
    Podcast: / @altshiftxpodcast
    Video clips from Game of Thrones used under fair use.
    Images from The World of Ice and Fire used with permission from Random House.
    Graphic novel artwork by Tommy Patterson and Mel Rubi.
    Tyrion portrait by Bella Bergolts:
    Full art credits here:
    (Too long to fit here on CZcams)
    References & further reading:
    George Martin “He's the villain” Amazon interview 1999:
    George Martin “probably something I could have left out” 92Y interview 2014: • George R. R. Martin: T...
    George Martin on Shae and Tywin, Entertainment Weekly 2014:
    George Martin says Daenerys and Tyrion are “coming home”, Entertainment Weekly 2014:
    George Martin hints Tyrion will fly, Not A Blog 2007:
    George Martin says we will find out where whores go, Algoritam 2015: • George R.R. Martin Sky...
    George Martin says Tyrion is morally grey, SF Site 2000:
    Adam Feldman on Tyrion:
    PoorQuentyn on Tyrion in ADWD:
    History of Westeros and GrayArea on Tyrion I & II TWOW • Valar Rereadis: TWOW -...
    Joshikins29 on Tyrion’s dark ending:
    BryndenBFish on Daenerys’ violent future: warsandpoliticsoficeandfire.w...
    BryndenBFish on Tyrion’s adaptation: warsandpoliticsoficeandfire.w...
    Radio Westeros and Emily on Tyrion in TWOW: • The Streams of Winter,...
    Chebyshov on Tyrion and Sansa:
    secretlyatargaryen on Tyrion and Tywin:
    JoannaLannister on Tyrion as villain:
    SporadicSheep on Tyrion as genetic chimera:
    Special thanks to Patrons Cameron Weiss, Michael Appell, Ryan Steele, Harry, Shane Veglia, Brian Sentient, Ria McDoodle, Tim Cunniff, NotGac, Cara Akame, Ilhuilkamina Urdiana, Gareth, T. Ledoux.
    0:00 Intro
    8:15 A Game of Thrones
    14:06 A Clash of Kings
    21:15 A Storm of Swords
    34:40 A Dance with Dragons
    49:55 The Winds of Winter
    1:05:52 A Dream of Spring
    What happens to Tyrion Lannister in the A Song of Ice and Fire books? Why does Tywin hate Tyrion? What’s the point of Penny? Will Tyrion ride a dragon? Is Tyrion a Targaryen? Will Tyrion find Tysha? Is Tyrion a villain?
    #GameOfThrones #ASOIAF

Komentáře • 0

  • Kate
    Kate Před 2 lety +4792

    I feel so bad for Peter Dinklage. As far as I can tell, he's a smart guy, it must have pained him to portray Tyrion's descent into stupidity after season 4.

    • neuralmute
      neuralmute Před 2 lety +616

      Can you imagine what an incredible performance an actor of Peter Dinklage's calibre could have given as the *REAL* Tyrion Lannister post S4? It could have been even better than his first 4 seasons put together! From everything I've seen of him, he's a remarkable actor, and the last 4 seasons completely cheated him.

    • Kate
      Kate Před 2 lety +51

      @neuralmute #JusticeForPeterDinklage

    • Smoking Amalek
      Smoking Amalek Před 2 lety +283

      He has all those paychecks to wipe his tears with.

    • JanjayTrollface
      JanjayTrollface Před 2 lety +174

      A few interviews I've seen parts of, you can see he hides his disappointment/frustration etc. poorly. The same as a few of the other actors also I guess. For such a good actor, I'm sure that they were not a mistake or oversight on his part.

    • neuralmute
      neuralmute Před 2 lety +139

      @JanjayTrollface I've got a feeling that he, and more than a few other GOT actors (Emellia Clarke anyone?) are just biding time until their non-disclosure agreements have run out so they can give the real scoop. I'm expecting at least a couple tell-all books every bit as heart wrenching and gruesome as anything GRRM has ever written to show up in a few years!

  • Agus Puig
    Agus Puig Před 5 měsíci +96

    props for Tywin, he really did not only get himself his own brothel but decorated it with his houses colors like a cartoon villain

    • Максим К.
      Максим К. Před 5 dny +6

      I think he just built a tunnel to an already existing brothel😂

  • DiveShadow
    DiveShadow Před 7 měsíci +655

    Tyrion in the show: mostly clever sad rejected boi
    Tyrion in the books: we live in a society

  • Manol Georgiev
    Manol Georgiev Před rokem +1651

    It's crazy how Tyrion's dark side makes him even more compelling. As someone that has been exposed to only Show Tyrion, I like this version more.

    • Celieboo
      Celieboo Před rokem +11

      I don't! 😳

    • Karl Glenn
      Karl Glenn Před rokem +63

      I kept waiting for his redemption arc in this video, but halfway through it didn't come, and maybe it won't, he's written to a wall it seems. While I agree that the Tyrion in the show is likeable, he seems written too pristine too, like too "good" to be interesting.

    • Viridiana Cortes
      Viridiana Cortes Před rokem +44

      I feel the show version would have been better if he was consumed by hate after he kills Tywin. And he only went to Dany to get his revenge on his family. Maybe if they wanted they could redeem him when he sees how his hatred got the people of King’s Landing killed and decides to redeem himself when he helps defeat the Night King. When Bean becomes king, He sends Tyrion to the Night’s Watch to help with the library or he could be sent to look for his wife without his tongue (an impossible task).

    • Chair
      Chair Před 10 měsíci +34

      @Karl Glenn He was starting to become less good in season 4 but then the shorunners just stopped caring in the later seasons. His speech at his trial and then killing Shae and Tywin, while justified, was pretty dark

    • realhillkell
      realhillkell Před 4 měsíci +1

      ​@Celieboo I also prefer s1-s4 Tyrion over book Tyrion

  • cdedberry
    cdedberry Před 10 měsíci +329

    Maybe it’s just me, but I honestly find the villainous Tyrion in the books more sympathetic and generally compelling than the righteously framed Tyrion of the show. His actions and moral inconsistency repeatedly confused and angered me, he never felt morally gray in the way many other characters did… he felt sloppily written and too easily forgiven by the writers when he would display cruelty and treason and the show presented it as just in whatever convoluted sense

    • Alex Chavez
      Alex Chavez Před 3 měsíci +17

      Like it could've made more sense why Dany destroys westeros and and wants to kill his family

    • CholericImp
      CholericImp Před 6 dny


    • Kato
      Kato Před 4 dny


  • Chandra Wagner
    Chandra Wagner Před rokem +3000

    I really wanted to see "evil" tyrion. It would have really given dinklage something to chew on. After that trial scene I was waiting with so much anticipation to see this great actor givin a complex storyline that would challenge the audience that loved him, and then they threw it away and gave him nothing but stupidity 😔

    • Joseph Wong
      Joseph Wong Před 11 měsíci +63

      Would love to see it too. It would subvert our expectations big time, from a Lannister who is supposed to be different from the other Lannisters (who are evil) to the evilest Lannister of them all.

    • Alana Gibbs
      Alana Gibbs Před 11 měsíci +19

      I agree with this, but I will say that I am not one of those people that hails the books as the only way his story should've or could've been told. After season four I definitely think that D&D could've found different ways to take Tyrion down that darker path,. even if it didn't happen exactly how it did in the books. I also wasn't that crazy about his storyline in A Dance With Dragons, because he doesn't really do that much but be melancholy and ask where whores go. But overall the more hopeless, resentfful side of him was embraced in the books much more than in the show. There's also the fact that, book Tyrion's story isn't over. Sure he's on the war path now, but will he stay on it? It's not as simple as the video kind of makes it seem. Book Tyrion is a little more conflicted, at least about Jaime, in terms of revenge. That could be something that makes him rethink whatever plans he has. Something will only know when TWOW, finally comes out.

    • Alana Gibbs
      Alana Gibbs Před 11 měsíci +7

      @Joseph Wong I wouldn't say he had zero development, but it the writing for TV Tyrion definitely lost it's complexity after season 4.

    • SidheKnight
      SidheKnight Před 11 měsíci +9

      I don't see book Tyrion as evil. Just spiteful and lashing out.
      Unless Winds of Winter has already come out and I just missed it.. (?)

  • Sam Costello
    Sam Costello Před 2 lety +4791

    "Tywin is not a golden lion. He is a deeply flawed man full of shame and spite and lust just like his son, Tyrion."
    Dude, that was beautiful.

    • aesir1 ases
      aesir1 ases Před 2 lety +233

      tywin being full of bullshit in regards to his image and dying literally shiting is beautifully poetic, another layer from this great tyrion x tywin arc i hadnt realize before

    • 夜場K
      夜場K Před 2 lety +125

      @aesir1 ases Don't forget Shae mistook Tyrion as Tywin, and called him my lion. If you were Tyrion, you will be deeply disgusted by this merciless but hypocrite father.

    • Hidden Dagger
      Hidden Dagger Před 2 lety +88

      Tywin himself married his love but forced his children to marry for geopolitical gains

    • CynicalFinch
      CynicalFinch Před 2 lety +5

      It would be beautiful, except that Tyrion is *_not_* Tywin's son.

    CRIMSON Před 8 měsíci +419

    I actually never realized Tyrion was supposed to be seen as a villain, since while reading the books i could relate to a lot of his struggles and could understand why he became so full of hatred and malice. I'm don't condone his actions, but think about what YOU would do, being born in the time and place he was, with the body he has and with a family that despises you for something outside of your control. I don't know what i would do but i'd be REALLY overestimating myself if i said i could stay being a sane, kind man

    • Matias Luukkanen
      Matias Luukkanen Před 5 měsíci +35

      I mean, that is what makes a hero and upstanding person.
      When you have every reason and possess power to reflect back the poor treatment you have received hundredfold, and instead break the cycle with kindness.

    • Light Bringer
      Light Bringer Před 5 měsíci +7

      Me too! I do now realize that he's becoming more villainous but because I was reading his chapters from the beginning I had an attachment with his character and couldn’t see his action as evil but justifiable, it's not

    • sinwithagrin
      sinwithagrin Před 4 měsíci +8

      I was in Afghanistan for a while. Learned very quickly what i was willing to do. I don't like Tyrion just because he goes into excess which is why I always felt closer to Tywin.

    • 3rdEarlRussell
      3rdEarlRussell Před 3 měsíci +11

      That’s why Martin said Tyrion is the greyest of the grey.

  • Diego Rodriguez
    Diego Rodriguez Před rokem +222

    I like to imagine that Shae really just was intimidated by Cersei and Tywin in order to be used against Tyrion, thereby making Shae really just an unfortunate soul lost in a Lannister Blood Feud

    • BlenderBanana
      BlenderBanana Před 5 měsíci

      Oh, Roxanne 🥶

    • Alex térieur
      Alex térieur Před 3 měsíci +31

      Even if she wasnt, she was still a teenager. She didnt deserve to be caught up in the family feud of madmen

    • S
      S Před 2 měsíci +16

      She was malicious. Saying things in the court that she didnt have to and mocking him.

  • Muntu Msutu
    Muntu Msutu Před rokem +446

    Tywin building a tunnel to a brothel is the funniest thing in the series

    • Dutch Van Der Linde
      Dutch Van Der Linde Před 2 měsíci +23

      Imagine if he tunnelled into it like a mole

    • long w lenguyen
      long w lenguyen Před 12 dny +5

      Show how much hypocritical Tywin is behind his Lion pride image.

    • Jim
      Jim Před 8 dny +2

      @Dutch Van Der Lindeit’d be bad if you miscalculated

  • Kiss Slowly Love Deeply
    Kiss Slowly Love Deeply Před 7 měsíci +74

    Good point about Tyrion really failing in book 2. He thinks he's a player, but Varys and Littlefinger are the real masters of the game.

    • Kris
      Kris Před 5 dny +2

      Theres actually a scene in the show in this context I really like. Tyrion asks Varys what he *really* wants. Varys makes Tyrion tell him his motivation and then shift the conversation to avoid the original answer. He says Tyrion is smart and a good player and Tyrion agrees, not realising he was just played

  • samiam2088
    samiam2088 Před rokem +2453

    Tyrion: "I want to be loved"
    Penny: "Um...hi?"
    Tyrion: "No, not you..."

    • Penguen Efendi
      Penguen Efendi Před rokem +45

      Lmao why should he love a dwarf

    • lil bunny
      lil bunny Před rokem +374

      @Penguen Efendi why does it matter that she’s a dwarf

    • PhebusdesTours
      PhebusdesTours Před 11 měsíci +102

      Not to mention she grew fond of him after trying to kill him. Many people would be less forgiving.

    • samiam2088
      samiam2088 Před 11 měsíci +413

      @Penguen Efendi You don’t find it a bit ironic that Tyrion whines about how everyone belittles him for being a dwarf, but he can’t extend the same humanity/dignity he craves towards another dwarf? Like the thought hadn’t crossed his mind at all?
      Not interested is simply not interested, but not interested based on her Dwarfism, when he’s also a dwarf is a bit dense.

    • Arno🔌🐰
      Arno🔌🐰 Před 11 měsíci +34

      @samiam2088 except it's not because she's a dwarf that he rejects her

  • ThisIsJaysWorld
    ThisIsJaysWorld Před rokem +4728

    What I think pissed Tywin off so much about Tyrion was that he was the son he wanted. He had a brain, an ability for finances and he had the head on his shoulders to rule...if Tyrion had been born with Jaime's body he would have had the perfect son

    • Zorhun
      Zorhun Před rokem +618

      Also Tyrion is who he is today in response to the people treating him as less (because he's a dwarf). If he looked like Jaime who knows what kind of upbringing he'd have, he could just be another Jaime

    • Horse M.D.
      Horse M.D. Před rokem +309

      Also the fact that Tyrion killed his mother made Tywin hate him even more.

    • bascal
      bascal Před rokem +29

      @Zorhun that isn’t great point

    • david lewis
      david lewis Před rokem +271

      @Horse M.D. its a horrible combination of things: his body, Joanna's death, and the belief he is Aerys' son. If one or two of those things were removed, I think Tywin could deal with it. And honestly I think they are in ascending order of problems. Joanna being gone is probably worse than Tyrion being a dwarf.

  • Aaron Cohen
    Aaron Cohen Před 10 měsíci +292

    This actually made me realize something about Lord Tywin. He isn’t really an intelligent lord because he can’t visualize consequences coming out of his own actions. It’s like he can see himself doing anything wrong, not in a moral sense but in a political one. Turning his children against each other practically from birth, torturing one son mentally while using the other two like pawns. It’s hard to imagine he cares about them in any way other than political. Consider one of his most devious actions, the Red Wedding, that was more Robb’s mistake than Tywin’s cleverness. Roose Bolton was always opportunistic concerning the Starks and Walder Frey couldn’t be trusted as an ally. But Walder was kept in line by the promise that his grandson would not only be born into one of the strongest houses in Westeros but also as a prince. When Robb screwed that up that is what allowed Tywin to conspire with the lords Bolton and Frey to perform the Red Wedding. If Robb never screwed up what would Tywin have done? Robb was WINNING, even having the Mountain on the run and Amory Lorch killed. It’s always prudent to capitalize in your enemies mistakes but horrible to not notice your own.

    • MR GAMES
      MR GAMES Před 9 měsíci +5

      Even Robb wasn't winning it was either luck or Grrm screwing The story to make robb stark win's his battles. in His first battle ( the whispering wood ) it was luck Who Made jaime the third BEST knight in asoiaf randomly mislaid his sword in someone so he can't kill robb stark that was so funny for me i mean he can't even get a random sword from his soldiers and continue the battle ??. Then robb sneak's to golden tooth And his wolf use's "Some random magic Wolf powers" so the Lannisters don't recognize him and a lot more hilarious battles. The point is robb stark won most of his battles by luck

    • Aaron Cohen
      Aaron Cohen Před 9 měsíci +38

      @MR GAMES Well with Jaime it was an ambush. He wasn't expecting a battle in the first place. And even then getting your sword stuck in an opponent isn't all that common.

    • Stinger Johnny
      Stinger Johnny Před 8 měsíci +19

      @Aaron Cohen Did you mean to say “not all that uncommon?”

    • Aaron Cohen
      Aaron Cohen Před 8 měsíci +10

      @Stinger Johnny Yes

    • Stinger Johnny
      Stinger Johnny Před 8 měsíci +1

      @Aaron Cohen Lol ok just making sure

  • Josh
    Josh Před měsícem +22

    Basically, Tyrion's line at the trial "I wish I had enough poison for the whole lot of you" was squandered. At this point he had anger and a desire to destroy those who looked down on him for being a dwarf. These feelings should have propelled him to Dani so that he can join her and use her desire for the throne to achieve his own revenge. Instead we get a drunken dwarf who fails upward every scene.

  • Nathan
    Nathan Před rokem +681

    I always felt like having a powerful “T” name was a particular honor in the Lannister family. So the fact that Tyrion was given a coveted name and turned out to be an abomination in Tywin’s eyes makes it all the more unbearable for him.

    • Collaborative Learning
      Collaborative Learning Před 5 měsíci +10

      yes it is said in a scene that tywin thought that tyrion was punishment for him, iirc it is also in the books.

    • Meghan Lunger
      Meghan Lunger Před 5 měsíci +24

      If "T" names were honors, Tyrion wouldn't have one. He was born "malformed" and Joanna died birthing him. Tywin wouldn't have honored him, he hated him from day 1.

    • Enki
      Enki Před měsícem +7

      Taime and Tersei

    • InitialPC
      InitialPC Před měsícem +3

      you do know it would have been tywin who gave him that name right? since joanna died and they knew from birth that tyrion was deformed?

  • Psycho Airsoft
    Psycho Airsoft Před 9 měsíci +653

    this actually explains a lot that happened in the show to me. the more the Show diverged from the Novels, the Worse that these characters became. because then the writers had to come up with character-development on their OWN to show what the Show-Version of Tyrion was becoming vs the Novel-Version... and that's when everyone realized the Show-Writers simply could not write...
    it definitely explains the turning-point of Tyrion better to me, after he kills Tywin. never read the novels and was disappointed at how he became so useless and brooding after that moment in the show. but it makes sense now. his character was ACTUALLY fated to become a total bastard who wished to watch the world burn... but the Show Directors wanted to to a total 180 from that fate because they had built such a beloved tragic-hero character already with Dinklage's superb acting because TV ratings. so they literally had to try and re-do his character from scratch at that point and simply couldnt match up to the writing of an actual book author in terms of character-development

    • James Leonard
      James Leonard Před 9 měsíci +13

      You hit the mail right in the head. Tv shows always turn the bad guys into a livable hero like you said because of the great acting as well as trying to please the audience. I call it the Fonzy effect.

    • Rudolf Horváth
      Rudolf Horváth Před 9 měsíci +20

      Yeah, it's not just Tyrion. Once they started to ran out of the books they were somewhat forced to make changes to simplify the plot. In S5 and S6 they butchered multiple storylines such as Stannis and North, Dorne; and the Tyrells and High Sparrow to keep the focus on 'main' characters. They also had to quickly change Jon and Daenerys in order to bring them into 'main' conflict. All of this would be fine if it weren't done with complete disregard for the characters themselves. S7 and S8 were just a poor attempt to make sense out of the bad decisions made before and a huge fan service.

    • Stinger Johnny
      Stinger Johnny Před 8 měsíci +8

      @Rudolf Horváth The fact that they were rushing towards the end certainly didn’t help. They cut out SO much from the books it’s almost fascinating. I mean look what they did to Euron!

    • Rudolf Horváth
      Rudolf Horváth Před 8 měsíci +3

      @Stinger Johnny Oh yeah... I totally forgot about him. Thanks for pointing that out.

    • AB1988
      AB1988 Před 6 měsíci +7

      @Stinger Johnny To me that's not Euron it was the wih version of Ramsey with no teeth. I'm so mad about how they completely deleted Dorne. ESPECIALLY with such talented actors like Pedro Pascal who opened the door in such a great fashion.

  • Evildoughboy 777
    Evildoughboy 777 Před rokem +334

    "He spent the last few seasons looking sad and helpless." We know how he feels and that sums up the finale of the show very well.

    • Roz W. Brazel
      Roz W. Brazel Před 5 měsíci +4

      seeing it again out of context, I thought this was talking about Peter Dinklage.

  • Amatthew123
    Amatthew123 Před 2 lety +1491

    When you read the books your drip fed all this intrigue and its hard to take the account of one characters story and really analyze it while your going from POV to POV. But with a video essay like this you really get to see the fucking remarkable web of trauma, emotions, politics, and relationships that Martin has created in his books for just one group of characters.
    It all feels real, every one of the Lannister's does fucked up things for real reasons connecting back to their childhoods, fears, and desires. I know I don't have to sing the praises here but it's just impressive when put into this format. Really nice video.

    • Joshua Graham
      Joshua Graham Před 2 lety +25

      season 7 and 8 was beyond garbage
      not even spinoff or prequel wont help

    • Feynstein 100
      Feynstein 100 Před 2 lety +40

      Agreed. I love the books and even though they're amazing, a lot of times it's hard to understand why characters are acting this way. I love analyses like these because they clearly explain everything.

    • benny savage
      benny savage Před 2 lety +52

      in a way i can now understand why the book takes so long to write.

    • Aniquin Stark
      Aniquin Stark Před 2 lety +18

      @benny savage I can only imagine how much of a mess GRRM office is. How does one even keep track of so many plots at one time?

    • neuralmute
      neuralmute Před 2 lety +15

      @Aniquin Stark I Imagine that GRRM's entire house is one big conspiracy wall, with every surface covered with plotlines, subplots, sub-subplots, character arcs, character histories, family trees, etc, with one small table and laptop for writing hidden somewhere in the middle of it all.

  • Penicio Del Toro
    Penicio Del Toro Před rokem +158

    Tywins character is some seriously good writing from George about trauma and the cycle of abuse

    • Catherine Cao
      Catherine Cao Před 8 měsíci +12

      Say it louder for the Pro-Tywin-ers in the back.

    • Gud Boah
      Gud Boah Před 3 měsíci +4

      @Catherine Caob-b-but Tywin is so cool and smart he’s literally me!!

  • Gerald L
    Gerald L Před 8 měsíci +84

    Thank you for reminding me what a remarkable writer GRRM is. The terrible ending blinded me to that, this video reminded me of just how much we still have to look forward to in the books.
    Now he just needs to finish them.

    • HoneyNutReviews
      HoneyNutReviews Před 2 měsíci +2

      no shot he finishes them I am so sorry

    • The Longest Page
      The Longest Page Před měsícem +6

      @HoneyNutReviews yea, he's gonna kick the bucket before Dream of Spring is done
      heck, maybe even before Winds

  • Vercingetorix Avernian
    Vercingetorix Avernian Před rokem +155

    It’s amazing how most of the evils in this world are because of parental cruelty

    • FatSkeleton
      FatSkeleton Před měsícem +4

      yea a baby isn’t born evil

  • Avijeet Kartikay
    Avijeet Kartikay Před 11 měsíci +74

    Hope they make an animated series out of this story, that is completely faithful to the OG books. That would be awesome, that why they don't have to deal with an aging cast.

  • Dippy
    Dippy Před 9 měsíci +98

    Please do more of “The real” GOT characters. Please do that for Stannis because he is not as much as a straight villain as I try ought him to be since i’ve been listening to the audiobooks.

    • Trevin Wolverine
      Trevin Wolverine Před 9 měsíci +10

      I'd want "the real" tragedy of Jeyne Poole. That poor girl has been through some shit hidden from the eyes of the reader

    • Dippy
      Dippy Před 9 měsíci +8

      @Trevin Wolverine I wish that he’d do more character development videos but it probably takes a lot of time

    • kendrickLamar_FeetPics123
      kendrickLamar_FeetPics123 Před měsícem +1

      Stannis the mannis the king who cared

    • Chad Farrell
      Chad Farrell Před 24 dny

      I disagree, but I think it's really interesting how Stannis gets this response so much. I think it's because we only directly see him through the eyes of people who will make excuses for him like Davos or his Maester

  • Jon Umber
    Jon Umber Před 2 lety +5698

    More people need to realize how badly David and Dan neutered the character of Tyrion.

    • Long Johnathan
      Long Johnathan Před 2 lety +609

      More people need to realize how badly D&D neutered the entire show/source material in general.. Like it's even worse than most people think it is, most think the show went to shit at Season 6/7, in reality D&D's stinky-smelly-bullshit is visible even in S2..

    • Crowbars2
      Crowbars2 Před 2 lety +340

      @Long Johnathan Yeah lol, in the earlier seasons, they had the books to just copy off of, and GRRM had a lot of input then too, he even wrote some episodes himself. The show was able to be good despite D&D and was only bad when D&D chose to streamline storylines and whenever they felt like writing additional bullshit.
      When the books ended, and D&D were too proud, arrogant, or retarded, to ask for GRRM's help beyond "How do you think the story ends?", the show took a huge nosedive after S6. From what I heard, GRRM wanted more input in the show, and he wanted the show to go on longer, but D&D told him to fuck off pretty much because "We have a Star Wars to go ruin." And we got the trainwreck of pure rushed D&D writing in S8, with no input from anyone else.
      I hope D&D never write anything again, ever.

    • Vic IV
      Vic IV Před 2 lety +103

      @Long Johnathan Yep. Red flags were there in the earlier seasons. More people need to know that.

    • andromidius
      andromidius Před 2 lety +103

      @Long Johnathan Yeah, for sure. Was still a watchable show in the early seasons, but it really does pale in comparison to the books on almost every level.
      Not the fault of the actors or crew - it was purely poor writing decisions and lack of caring. I managed to shrug it off for season after season, but Barristan being killed off really was the first unforgivable choice they made - even the actor was appalled at being written out like that!

    • Vic IV
      Vic IV Před 2 lety +71

      @andromidius it’s such a damn shame for all the actors and other crew members. Pouring out you heart, souls and effort in giving a great performance and beautiful visuals and soundtrack and it all goes down the drain thanks to shitty writers.

  • Johny Christ
    Johny Christ Před rokem +60

    I can honestly see Penny facing a death, but not at the hands of Tyrion. And Tyrion realizing that he truly loved her, maybe not romantically but as a friend. I can see Tyrion instead of falling deep into the hatred, but deciding to honor her words to him. And become more of the show Tyrion

  • J G
    J G Před rokem +52

    I think whats great about this character is even though hes done some really bad things, you can't help but really want him to become a better person.

    • Gwen
      Gwen Před 16 dny

      which is probably why the showrunners made him good in the show. it was the wrong decision for the story, his character development was completely thrown away, but i get why D&D wanted Tyrion to be good, because we're all rooting for him to be better. but i don't want to read/watch a story where i get everything i want, that would be boring

    • FriarTucksHops
      FriarTucksHops Před 14 dny

      I have the same feeling towards Bojack in Bojack Horseman

  • Hempsey
    Hempsey Před rokem +600

    I worked with Tywin Lannister (Charles Dance) on a couple of films, he was a gentleman and a marvellous actor to watch on set. Humble and friendly, a real pleasure to work with.

    • Haroun Farhani
      Haroun Farhani Před 9 měsíci +32

      So he is the complete opposite of the character he plays lmao

    • Poi Pen
      Poi Pen Před 9 měsíci

      Sure bud

    • witch, please
      witch, please Před 9 měsíci +23

      @Haroun Farhanimost actors are nothing like their characters…

    • Haroun Farhani
      Haroun Farhani Před 9 měsíci +5

      @witch, please that really depends, but most of the time you are most definitely correct.

    • The Spark
      The Spark Před 6 měsíci +6

      @witch, please I mean, imagine being like Geoffrey and there are humans who are. His actor was however the complete opposite in real life.

  • Scott Cameron
    Scott Cameron Před 11 měsíci +59

    Would love to see this as a new series The Real characters of the books.
    In this you've perfectly outlined how the show (though not entirely through faults of its own) took the broad narrative of Martin's final books but completely and utterly failed (again completely intentionally) to vet and provide the context and background for WHY these things happened.

  • pedro6720
    pedro6720 Před rokem +4422

    Can this become a new series with all the character from Game Of Thrones please?
    The REAL Sansa Stark
    The REAL Cercei Lannister
    The REAL Bran Stark

    • TheMichael
      TheMichael Před rokem +266

      I'd love to see the REAL Stannis the Mannis

    • Augustus Freeman
      Augustus Freeman Před rokem +98

      The REAL Theon Greyjoy
      Because TV Theon is almost a completely different character.

    • ATWDigital
      ATWDigital Před rokem +66

      In interviews GRRM has stated that there is no "real" versions of characters. There is simply tv Tyrion and book Tyrion, because Tyrion is not a real person. I do agree book Tyrion past book 3 is more interesting.

    • DatBoiLos
      DatBoiLos Před rokem +1

      Please pretty please!

  • Roz W. Brazel
    Roz W. Brazel Před 5 měsíci +13

    A book-accurate Tyrion behind Daenerys, feeding all of her worst instincts with his own would have been so compelling. It could have been. It *SHOULD* have happened. But what we got instead...

  • Jacques Braz
    Jacques Braz Před 10 měsíci +27

    It's been almost 10 years since I've read ASOIAF and I've always been curious about how Martin portraied Tywin's death. I could never guess the meaning behind of it all... The scene felt strange to me. Now It all makes sense.
    Thanks for bringing peace to me.

  • Bobbi Guile
    Bobbi Guile Před 21 dnem

    Peter is a passionate actor and portrays Tyrion with great talent. He makes one travel with him through all his pain and grief, and loves his work and he's so good that one feels anger, sorrow, even hatred .

  • Alecseus Alec
    Alecseus Alec Před 8 měsíci +15

    If you think about it, Tyrion had a surprisingly decent relationship with all his relatives except his father and sister.

    • Catherine Cao
      Catherine Cao Před 3 měsíci +2

      It’s also very telling that those relatives worship the very ground that Tywin walks on.
      Remember, Uncle Kevan was there when Tywin sent his son out to die and was the one to tell Tyrion to trust Tywin, and look how that turned out.

  • Marjoss1
    Marjoss1 Před rokem +58

    I really hope there’s a happy ending for Penny, she is one of the few characters who truly deserves it.

    • The Film Advocate
      The Film Advocate Před 9 měsíci +9

      This is G.R.R.M. we are talking about
      He doesn't care about "deserve"

    • Stinger Johnny
      Stinger Johnny Před 8 měsíci +19

      @The Film Advocate after a while, endless death breeds apathy to it. One or two happy endings act as a nice palate cleanser so that the deaths still have impact.

    • Jacob Enke
      Jacob Enke Před 7 měsíci +5

      @Stinger Johnny except that penny is so pure that you have to expect her to die. Tyrion killing her would be a nice touch, symbolic of killing the last bit of his innocence and decency, not that he has much remaining.

    • Stinger Johnny
      Stinger Johnny Před 7 měsíci +16

      @Jacob Enke But that’s the thing, when you expect someone to die, in my case just rolling my eyes the second I realize it, it’s a lovely surprise when they survive.
      Sorry dude, but I’m done with the cynical shit, I’m burnt out on it and I like to see some happy endings. I was genuinely shocked when Castlevania had a happy, satisfying ending after everything that happened in that show, and it made that ending all the sweeter to see.

    • Diamond
      Diamond Před 4 měsíci

      ​@Stinger Johnny that's too cliche

  • John Masters
    John Masters Před 2 lety +1952

    This confirms in my mind that D&D never actually understood any of the characters in the series. They just had a superficial liking towards certain characters (Tyrion, Renly, Starks), and preferred to either whitewash them to be better than they were (Renly supposedly caring for the realm, Catelyn supposedly feeling guilt over Jon), or paint opposing characters far worse in comparison (Stannis being a murderous horndog, Edmure being an incompetent gloryhound). They took what should have been gripping psychological dramas of inner conflict, and dumbed them down into good/evil dichotomies, with characters flipping between them like an on/off switch.

    • Regenmacher175
      Regenmacher175 Před 2 lety +40

      Or maybe...just maybe they understood them but you disagree with their views of the characters? There is more than one way to interpret a fictional character.

    • John Masters
      John Masters Před 2 lety +297

      @Regenmacher175 There's a difference between understanding a character differently, and outright changing the character's actions to avoid those parts about them you don't want to depict. The former can happen in areas of ambiguity, where it's not clear why the character did what they did. But in the absence of that, if you are creating new motivations out of whole cloth, or in contradiction to others plainly stated in the source material, then you are no longer adapting the character from the books, but creating a new character with inspiration from the books.
      Considering what happened with many of these characters' concluding arcs in the show, it's clear they either never understood the source material, or weren't skilled enough to create character arcs to replace what they changed. Ye shall judge them by their fruits.

    • Jean
      Jean Před 2 lety +34

      @John Masters I think it's more complex than "understanding" vs "not understanding".
      The show made choices which were justified by its format yet had HUGE impact on character development.
      In the case of Tyrion, they "removed" Taisha, only mentioning her as a prostitute, and kinda replaced her by Shae (emotionally). For the show, it made sense because bringing a character who was only mentioned in the 1st season, up to the end of the 4th, would not have worked well - make more sense to give importance to the character the audience actually SAW with tyrion. You can contest this choice still, but it's quite a logical one. Right or wrong, this choice completely changed the relationship between Tyrion and his brother, as well as his perception of the world. Show tyrion and book tyrion HAD to take different path in order to keep coherent story telling.
      To be honest, I completely buy both versions of Tyrion... up to a certain point in the show, where he seemed to have lost his main trait: his intelligence è_é but the whole rant about the "real" Tyrion sounds absurd to me.

    • PaulfromBearTown
      PaulfromBearTown Před 2 lety +215

      Books: “Edmure is so upset at the passing of his father that he drank his sorrows away, only to have a huge hangover at the wake. His aim was a bit off.”
      D&D: “haha, Edmure is dumb.”

    • John Masters
      John Masters Před 2 lety +106

      ​@Jean I don't really think format is relevant to characterization. Aerys, Rhaegar and Lyanna are never seen, yet their shadow looms large over the setting through the characters that were affected by them. Doing that on a smaller scale with Tyrion through his side conversations with Shae (while also showing the toxicity of the relationship), could have easily elucidated Tyrion's brokenness and need for genuine love.
      Ultimately, I think they changed Tyrion because they wanted to change the direction of his character arc. They saw a fun, interesting character that they liked, and they wanted to take him in a different direction. That's not an implicitly bad thing in itself: adaptations shift character roles all the time, and sometimes that can lead to interesting new takes.
      But it behooves you as the adapter, when making such choices, to have a plan which accommodates the changes you've made. D&D clearly did not, which is why I assert they did not understand them. If they understood them, then they would have realized the changes to the plot that would have been required.
      Instead, Tyrion became a well-intentioned dunce, Cersei got a galaxy-brain and somehow becomes a ruling Queen, Euron turns into Great Value Jack Sparrow, Varys and Littlefinger become utterly irrelevant and race to see who can get executed by their liege first, Jon Snow becomes a simp, and the Wildlings decide they liked semi-arctic conditions after all.
      They did not have a plan. Because they did not understand the characters. Because they aren't actually good story writers. They can improve on existing material (case in point, Arya/Tywin's scenes). But they didn't actually know how to craft long-running plots, a part of which requires intimate understanding of your characters, their motivations, and how they propel the plot forward.
      I realize this probably comes across as super aggressive, so I apologize if I sound antagonistic towards you personally. I'm just venting generalized frustration.

  • Simbach Vazo
    Simbach Vazo Před 6 měsíci +29

    I have not read nor seen Game of Thrones, but this really does tell me an incredible story of a sad, little man.

  • Chris A
    Chris A Před 9 měsíci +37

    Really excellent take. Tyrion is generally portrayed as sympathetic, but antiheroes are never satisfactory if they aren’t sympathetic.

  • trackmaster152002
    trackmaster152002 Před 5 měsíci +11

    Yeah, I've always wondered why people called Tyrion a villain, but it makes a lot more sense now. He's definitely written as a protagonist and good guy by D&D, but he definitely sounds more like a villain in the books. Its also weird that D&D didn't just trust the fifth book instead of trying to deviate from it that point. The speculation that you did in this video sounds a lot better than the seasons 6-8 that we got from D&D. I like the idea of Tyrion convincing Dany to brutal and invade King's Landing, unleashing some of the Wildfire, and then teaming to help fight the White Walkers as his true redemptive character arc.

  • Serafima P.
    Serafima P. Před 6 měsíci +26

    Actually ideal Tyrion, a really deep character for me would be a combination between the one in the show and the one in books. His evolution in first few seasons seems reasonable, I think he should learn how to be gentle and feel true love from Shae. But after the court he should become the character we see in books, craving for revenge.

  • ViewTube Emperor of Mankind
    ViewTube Emperor of Mankind Před 8 měsíci +64

    What can you do if you are stressed but turn people into soup... Tyrion is such a relatable character...

    • Jacob Enke
      Jacob Enke Před 7 měsíci +1

      i'd eat singer stew

  • ptcharlesNYC
    ptcharlesNYC Před 2 lety +5675

    We've waited so patiently for our hour-plus of Tyrion content, and now we finally have it. Bravo, AltShift, you've outdone yourself

  • Chris
    Chris Před 5 měsíci +4

    I read the books as they came out year by year, and I never once considered Tyrion a villain. The show did paint him any better light, but honestly they painted everyone in a better light. Tywin was almost like a regular guy in the show, in the book he is absolutely a villain.

  • the random pineapple
    the random pineapple Před měsícem +2

    Tyrion is a complex character. His hunger for revenge and desire to kill the rest of his family is overpowering, but there is an underlying goodness there when he sees that his sister is upset and heartbroken to see her. Only daughter get married off to somebody. He does honestly try to comfort her. He does think of the people of king's landing and what's best for them when he makes decisions, unlike almost everybody else. Even though he clearly hates joffrey, he is still the fun uncle to his other nephew and niece and genuinely seems to like them

  • Der individuelle Klonkrieger aus der Hölle

    I just want you to know that your videos are awesome and got me into reading the books after being beyond heartbroken after this shitty series that was my life until I realised how much better the books are. Cheers to my hero.

  • Nowlibongo
    Nowlibongo Před 10 měsíci +348

    FYI Richard the 3rd did actually have deformities. They found his remains a few years ago and found that he suffered from scoliosis.

    • Jamie Baker
      Jamie Baker Před 9 měsíci +25

      When there is constant inbreeding within a family. They will almost always eventually end up having a ton of health issues and deformities. People who don't believe that he was deformed, or had some kind of issues with his health. Have obviously not done any research on the topic.

    • Stinger Johnny
      Stinger Johnny Před 9 měsíci +22

      @Jamie Baker The only reason it works for the Targaryens is because they have magic blood. And even then, half of the Targaryens are mad.
      That said, deformities are only really common with pervasive generational incest, and there were likely folks amongst his family who looked normal or were healthy, so I could still see him being mistreated for being a hunchback and his condition being used as an excuse for his behavior.

    • Anonomius0
      Anonomius0 Před 9 měsíci +6

      @Stinger Johnny depends on how pervasive the generational 'incest' was. While I've found no relation between Richard III's paternal great grandparents, his parents were something like second cousins once removed while his paternal grandparents were first cousins twice removed.

    • Anonomius0
      Anonomius0 Před 9 měsíci +18

      @Stinger Johnny Also, scoliosis is not a cause of being a hunchback (that's kyphosis), and it was conclued that despite how dramatic it looked it could be concealed by clothing.

    • AW
      AW Před 8 měsíci +11

      From what I've read (research based on accounts and portraits from his period, and then of course his remains), I think that the most likely version is that he had _some_ small but visible disfigurement which was later widely exaggerated by his victorious opponents as a terrible hunch for propaganda reasons. Most likely the truth, as always, lies somewhere between "a deformed monster" and "100% healthy".

  • Max Mustermann
    Max Mustermann Před 5 měsíci +4

    I disagree with Tyrion's plan to sent Myrcella to Dorne being a failure. Stopping Dorne from entering war against Joffrey was important given their relatively weak position and moving her away from Kings Landing was a good decision to not put all eggs in one basket. Arianne's plan to use Myrcella was laughable, no non-dornish houses would have backed a Queen over a King and most of Dorne even opposed her. Arianne had 5 adult companions, several of which were traitors lol.

  • BenderthePirate
    BenderthePirate Před 2 lety +9983

    “Tyrion is smart, but not that smart I guess.” -actual quote from Peter Dinklage after reading the script of Season 8.

    • Broken Drum
      Broken Drum Před 2 lety +1066

      I bet Peter dinklage would have loved to test his acting chops turning everyone's favourite character into a villain.

    • Karthik H
      Karthik H Před 2 lety +20

      Lollll. this cracked me uppp haha

    • Boyzby
      Boyzby Před 2 lety +304

      @Broken Drum We get to see some of that in the trial. He would have been so good.

    • King Edward "Longshanks" I, Hammer of the Scots, Lord of Wales and King of England
      King Edward "Longshanks" I, Hammer of the Scots, Lord of Wales and King of England Před 2 lety +506

      @Broken Drum That’s the most depressing thing. For a show that got famous for pushing lines you don’t cross, they were clearly terrified to make Tyrion a villain for being afraid of losing the audience and blurring the lines of morality in their “good” characters, leading to the collapse of Tyrion as a character- with that indecision being behind many of the shows later problems.

  • Veritas Invicta
    Veritas Invicta Před 11 měsíci +19

    Interestingly enough there seems to be a pattern of Targaryian infants turning out gruesome, with little wings and tail stubs. Maegor's babies, though I suspect Oldtown had a hand in that), Dany's child, Visery's son Baelor who was cut out of his mother which caused her death.
    There are other examples of this, some think there is a recessive dragon gene in them, that Targaryians are literally part dragon and there are those special attributes like dreaming and ability to withstand flames unscathed indicative of this assertion.
    My point is that Tyrion may well be half Targaryian, with that gene popping up (Though not near to the extent of most such Targ babies he lived and despite reports to the contrary didn't have wings and a tail. the Valyrians and first men share these things from opposite sides. One from ice and the other fire. First Men have greenseers and wargs.

  • Nate
    Nate Před 6 měsíci +9

    You mentioned how one issue with Tysha being The Sailor's Wife is Tyrion is not a sailor but this could be a lie. Here's an idea; what if the reason she calls Tyrion a sailor is because the occupation represents the young Tyrion that she knows. After all, Tyrion wanted to travel the world with Gerion before Tywin said fuck that. Thats just my idea though

  • Ironside
    Ironside Před rokem +38

    - How many psychological disorders will the Lannisters going to have?
    - George: YES!

  • A Cady
    A Cady Před měsícem +2

    In the book Tyrion's murder of shay is some of the darkest sh*t in the narrative... I always imagine him taking Shay with him across the sea and how that would affect his story/motivations

  • Arsene
    Arsene Před rokem +5686

    Honestly I'd really love a "The Real Stannis Baratheon" video, because there's still a lot of people who only watched the show and didn't read the books so they're missing out the great character that is Stannis

    • Blue is Not a Warm Colour
      Blue is Not a Warm Colour Před rokem +147

      Absolutely. That should be his next video for sure

    • Korawit Buttramee
      Korawit Buttramee Před rokem +484

      For all the bullshit writing in the show, Stephen Dillane did a great job portraying a character he admitted having a hard time understanding since the writing made no sense to him, a veteran and utterly professional actor, that Liam Cunningham had to help him construct his acting instead of, you know, the showrunners.

    • Angela Eris
      Angela Eris Před rokem +240

      Book Stannis would honestly kill show Stannis himself tbh.

    • Mani Thierry-mieg
      Mani Thierry-mieg Před rokem +221

      @Angela Eris I mean thé show stannis is told to be a great strategist but loses every battle he's shown to fight.

  • Vesko Slavchev
    Vesko Slavchev Před rokem +11

    Watching these videos really made me think I should re-read the books. Absolute masterpieces.

  • Alien Teknology
    Alien Teknology Před 7 měsíci +6

    Thanks for this eye opening analysis & summary. I haven't read the books, but after the travesty that the TV series became I intend to. Then when Martin writes the next installments we'll get a proper ending.

  • kaoskult
    kaoskult Před rokem +24

    Fantastic video. So detailed, well explained and argumented. It's clear you worked on it very much. Thank you!

  • JHawke
    JHawke Před 7 měsíci +11

    Please do some more “The real” versions of other characters, this is one of my favourite vids!

  • Nicholas Kandas
    Nicholas Kandas Před 6 měsíci +2

    I like the idea that Tyrion is Tywin's only true child. Jaime and Cersei are the secret Targaryens. This would make family reconciliation for Tyrion, weird, maybe impossible. But it would be a poetic end to his relationship with Tywin, cementing the fact that Tyrion is Tywin's only true legacy.

  • Rosie
    Rosie Před rokem +404

    The irony is Tywin constantly publicly humiliating Tyrion contributes to people laughing at him. If Tywin had supported him, shown him proudly and given him power, set his wrath on people that belittled Tyrion, people probably wouldnt have dared laugh

    • Stinger Johnny
      Stinger Johnny Před 8 měsíci +71

      “One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it.”
      It’s almost eerie how often this quote is appropriate Eh?

  • D P
    D P Před 11 měsíci +5

    The picture you show of Richard the third is exactly what he looked like. When they found his body, a replica was made of his skull and given to a woman, who is famous for reconstructing faces. She wasn't told who the skull was, but when she had finished, it matched the famous painting of king Richard. His bones also had a very prominent curvature of the spine. The only thing in any doubt is was he really evil? Unfortunately archaeology can't answer that one.

  • Raw Bliss
    Raw Bliss Před 11 měsíci +9

    Extremely well done sir. Was intrigued the whole time. You are such a great storyteller

  • Olorin
    Olorin Před měsícem

    Its hard for me to say how his story would end, but i hope he find redemption and peace. And i hope he gets to save the day in some kind of day and his history be put to paper and he earns the peoples love and is recognized for what he did. Im rereading the books right now and im in the middle of Tyrion's trial. Honestly the only person that acts somewhat decently and recognizes him is Ser Garlan Tyrell, who points to his best move to use his clansmen correctly as harrying the host of Stannis, killing scouts and so on. To my knowledge the only one who did it.
    And obviously fuck Cersei but she is mad. But Tywin? what the fuck. He is so overglorfied as a leader for his house, and a battle commander. There is no excuse for him. If not for the likes of Roose and Walder, and the help of Tyrion and littlefinger he would have lost. He was cunning, and thats about it. Most satisfying death ever.
    After all the misory of Tyrions life, without a loving family and only Jaime to somewhat behave towards him he still manages to be somewhat a good ruler when he gets into power. He has more chivalry than most knights, most of his decisions is just. Sure he goes bonkers but who wouldnt?

  • John Roberts
    John Roberts Před rokem +10

    I love your theories about the future of the next book. My friends and I had the same discussions when the show was still airing. Great work.

  • Kris Kimber
    Kris Kimber Před 2 měsíci +3

    Watching this video makes me realize exactly why I can’t watch the show over again. So many missed opportunities with just this one amazing character, it’s insane. Shame on Dan and Dave for their absolutely horrible work ethic and lack of awareness for their source material

  • Courtney
    Courtney Před 5 měsíci +1

    This was an absolutely amazing video! It went by so fast that when it ended, I got sad. Thank you for this ❤

  • BenderthePirate
    BenderthePirate Před 2 lety +864

    There’s also the parallels of Jaime and Tyrion’s arcs. As the story progresses, Jaime becomes more heroic, while Tyrion becomes more villainous.
    Post-ASOS Tyrion is indeed villainous, but I still hope that Tyrion manages to redeem himself in some way before the end of the series.

    • Manuel Gutierrez
      Manuel Gutierrez Před 2 lety +112

      I hadn't even realized. Now that I think about it his interactions with Penny seem very similar to Jamie's with Brienne.

    • S.
      S. Před 2 lety +51

      Which would you rather: Jaime completes his redemption arc into a full blown goody, while Tyrion completes his downfall into a full blown psycho. Or Jaime U-turns from his redemption arc (like the show) while Tryion U-turns on his downfall (thanks to Penny etc) ? Not sure which i would rather myself

    • Manuel Gutierrez
      Manuel Gutierrez Před 2 lety +32

      @S. Oh, that's hard. I guess if I had to pick the U-turn option. I want Jamie redeemed but I would rather see Tyrion not end fully evil at the end. But hopefully not be handled the same way it was in the show.

    • BenderthePirate
      BenderthePirate Před 2 lety +86

      Jaime needs see his redemption through. Especially after burning Cersei’s letter and his upcoming confrontation with Lady Stoneheart. It would be super jarring and counter productive if he crawled back to Cersei.
      Plus he’s my favorite POV character. Tyrion is a very close second.
      Tyrion, either way could work. Full dark side, or dark side until the few moments, both outcomes work really well and are very fitting for him.

    • Matt P
      Matt P Před 2 lety +10

      @S. I kind of liked the Jamie dying with his sister thing like the way they did it in the show was awful but him going back to try to save the only woman he ever loved despite how terrible and destructive their relationship was and dying trying to protect the queen is actually a pretty good ending. He goes back in for filled his Val like a true knife protecting his queen the woman he loves despite it all it’s not a happy ending but it’s bittersweet in a way I kind of like

  • Crasnicul
    Crasnicul Před měsícem +1

    your videos are honestly the last bit of hope I have left for this series

  • Mike Bramlett
    Mike Bramlett Před 9 měsíci +4

    I've listened to the ASOIAF books 2 times very recently, and I still missed a few of the observations you've made in this video. All the detail is excellent, in the books AND your essay. This is great work.

  • Matyas Taller
    Matyas Taller Před rokem +16

    Around 4:00, you mention how Richard III. was portrayed as this psychopathic orc and how modern history debates that.
    I believe that they found the late King's grave recently under some parking lot I think and found out that he was physically quite a normal guy and even quite tall for the age. I also recall the remains had quite a few signs of weapon damage and breakages, so he supposedly wasn't a craven chicken either.

  • Lord Mugfish
    Lord Mugfish Před 6 měsíci +1

    I love the foreshadowing of specific plot lines that just weren't in the TV show. Shows that even if GRRM sticks to the TV shows broad strokes, it'll still end up very different and make a lot more sense I'd gather. I have faith in Gurm, I don't mind waiting as long as it takes, although I'd rather not have to. Also I'm pretty sure Dany was wearing a burka or veil when tyrion is performing as well.

  • rationalmuscle
    rationalmuscle Před 11 měsíci +6

    Excellent review. Thanks for the work you put into this. It also points to the time when the show began to veer off the rails and mangle something once-great: after Tyrion kills his father. That said, Dinklage did a great job playing the character, however whitewashed from the books, until he couldn't fake it anymore.

  • Halberd-3
    Halberd-3 Před 2 lety +4408

    “…and Strong Belwas wants liver and onions.”
    Truly, the most compelling character story of ASOIAF.

    • mmarlaire
      mmarlaire Před 2 lety +108

      Fuck now I want liver and onions

    • Nic Bahtin
      Nic Bahtin Před 2 lety +75

      Better to stick to liver and onions think of how much pain these "normal" relationships did in the show

    • Gabe’s Workshop
      Gabe’s Workshop Před 2 lety +37

      Would you like a nice Chianti with that?

    • dilz
      dilz Před 2 lety +76

      Strong belwas is a fucking beast

    • Spaghet
      Spaghet Před 2 lety +141

      It’s a crime they didn’t have him in the show and replaced him with Dario. Strong Bella’s fighting that dude on the horse then shitting on him in front of the whole city, incredible. Then eating ALL of the poisoned honey locusts meant for Danerys, puking and crapping his brains out on his death bed, but SURVIVING. He’s the GOAT eunuch.

  • Mama Zannie
    Mama Zannie Před 9 měsíci +4

    Great summary and comparison between the books and the series. Thank you. I hope the next book is better than what HBO spewed out.

  • Al
    Al Před 5 měsíci

    Great video! You did an excellent job explaining Tyrion from the books compared to the show. A real Ramsey Bolton video would be awesome!

  • Tom Guerrero
    Tom Guerrero Před 10 měsíci +6

    I truly think that Tywin’s relationship with Tyrion (and his demeanor in general in many ways) is derived from Judge Claude Frollo from The Hunchback of Notre Dame. Like the way he is disgusted with Tyrion but tries to occasionally use him for for his own means. His complete arrogance and grandiosity, looking down on so many. I swear it’s a parallel with that story.

    ULTIMAFAX Před rokem +1

    I agree it doesn't matter if Aerys is actually Tyrion's biological father; he is Tywin's son. Ignoring the plot though (which it makes sense so he's a dragonrider), imagine what the realization would do for Tyrion's character. I think it would be enough to tip him right over the edge.

  • Anya Abusable
    Anya Abusable Před rokem +6

    Honestly I'm starting to like the idea that Tyrion never learns for certain of his parentage. It allows there to be a continuing tragedy in the fact that Tyrion keeps being reactive, keeps pinning his Fate on the actions of others, assigns meaning about who he is based on his past. While Penny represents what he COULD be if he could just let that go, or at least refuse to let it have power over him. Think of the man Tyrion Lannister could be if he CHOSE what kind of man he wanted to be, rather than play the part his trauma has chosen for him.

    • A. Dubbs
      A. Dubbs Před rokem

      Frrrr I never realized how much his insecurity limits Tyrion and his potential to help people and form meaningful relationships. He reacted to his heartbreaking traumas by treating others cruelly and selfishly, even committing truly evil assaults and domestic violence. If he would just do the work to try and atone for those actions and allow people to care about him, he could use his crafty brain and political connections to help people and finally receive some real love again. At the same time, this video sorta showed me a lot of stuff I had forgotten about Tyrion and I can't really root for him no more 😬. He's crossed the line already I guess. But that's another great thing to think about! Can people like Tyrion be redeemed? This video was awesome.

    • Jacob Enke
      Jacob Enke Před 7 měsíci

      @A. Dubbs I'm not really down with the idea of atonement when the acts committed don't warrant it. Tyrion and Theon, in particular, don't deserve it.

  • ÅšH😏
    ÅšH😏 Před 2 lety +1376

    I haven’t been this thrilled for a GoT content ever since the disaster of season 8. Watching this made me fall in love with GoT all over again. Thank you so much Alt Shift! Please make more detailed videos like this for every major character (or House)of the story.

    • ÅšH😏
      ÅšH😏 Před rokem +18

      HBO should have definitely hired Alt Shift in the writing team for the upcoming prequel series House of Dragons. No one (besides Martin) knows the ASOIAF better than Alt Shift!

    • Garchomp2007
      Garchomp2007 Před rokem +4

      I second this, this is one of the most detailed and interesting ASOIAF videos I’ve ever watched and there are many main characters that need exploring and speculation.

    • ceb0lla
      ceb0lla Před rokem +2

      Same. This video made me reread the books. I really had forgotten how good the characters and story are. Also I got so much more out of it than the first time I read them/watched the show

    • ceb0lla
      ceb0lla Před rokem +8

      @Hello it's me I think they messed up Sansa too. That line about how she's glad she was raped and abused (????????) pretty much sums up how little they understand the character

    • ceb0lla
      ceb0lla Před rokem +3

      @Hello it's me and about that change I can't shake the feeling that they did it just because sansas actress turned 18 around that time and they could do the rape scene for shock value and as a cheap way to move the battle of the bastards plot forward. Also her Vale plot in the books is way more interesting and more in line with her outsmarting littlefinger and making allies in the north

  • Lew
    Lew Před 7 dny

    Just a point on Richard III, mentioned at 3:50. I don’t think modern historians doubt his disfigured body since they found him below a car park in Leicester in 2012. His skeletal remains clearly show a crooked spine, a man who suffered physically but still lead an army into battle, which of course didn’t end well for him.

  • Nova The Raven
    Nova The Raven Před 6 měsíci +7

    I feel like the fact tyrion is a lannister and has too be kind of open too the public and is always being monitored by his sister & father means he cant have as elaborate schemes as Varys or Littlefinger. He is too prideful for it as a Lannister, he still craves too ride out on a battlefield and spill blood for his house like the lion he is, whereas Littlefinger the mocking bird and Varys the Spider dont have direct combat as an option

  • Ktheter Kuceder
    Ktheter Kuceder Před 10 měsíci +3

    In defense of Tyrion there is a reason he is the way he is and eventually becomes. His father. The man who professed to put family first didn't give a shit about Tyrion nor did he do anything to make him feel loved. He claimed that family who put family interests instead of its children wishes first was better yet he didn't just not fulfill any of his wishes some of which were absolutely not in any way against family except for marrying tysha. He didn't allow him to travel in the free cities which is tradition for noble families nor did he even show him some affection or protection. He made him master of sewage and cisterns for fuck sake. Then there is of course Tysha. Now here he did to his son something so terrible and disgusting that a backstabbing,cuthroat willing to murder even children for a good sum of ransmom like Bronn was disgusted to the point of admitting he would kill the man who did something like that to him. Not to mention that he created the greatest enemy of house lannister. Tyrion is a good villain according to Martin but that is because he is a tragic one.

  • Colin Long
    Colin Long Před rokem +4

    Thanks for making my work days more enjoyable my dude. I love the show and these videos with insight into the books is super dope.

  • Gray
    Gray Před 10 měsíci +6

    While there's plenty of hints to Aerys being Tyrion's father, part of me thinks he could actually be Jaime and Cersei's father instead, it could explain their attraction to each other. It'd be an interesting way to flip the expectation and truly reinforce "No Tywin, Tyrion *is* your son, he is your *only* son."

  • Padaí Rua
    Padaí Rua Před 2 lety +467

    It should be noted that GRRM has pulled a master stroke of prose. Tyrion and Jaime start at way different places to readers (well, in my experience!) who loved Tyrion and despised Jaime - yet as the story goes on we grow to love Jaime as he crawls out of his apathy and turn a bit sour on Tyrion as he slides down into petty cruelty. I so wonder how this probably tragic tale of two brothers will end.

    • Archives of Fantasy
      Archives of Fantasy Před 2 lety +21

      Except Jaimes arc is obvious
      I wasn’t even aware of this darker interpretation of Tyrion’s story until watching this video. It’s a great video, but it picks and chooses a little to reinforce its point. Tyrion is still better than 99% of characters in this world

    • Cameron Yergeau
      Cameron Yergeau Před 2 lety +7

      @Archives of Fantasy exactly my thoughts. I agreed ultimately that he will prob end up killin his bro ☹️

    • camille
      camille Před rokem +6

      @Archives of Fantasy book tyrion is so so fleshed out i love it he's probably one of my fav characters along with cersei but tv tyrion is probably one of my most hated characters along with arya and jon they make him so stupid and though he's not as clever as he thinks he is in the id rather have evil tyrion over his stupid version

    • HebrewsElevenTwentyFive
      HebrewsElevenTwentyFive Před rokem +13

      Tragic ending incoming. Reading Jaime go from 'Kingslayer' to 'Goldenhand the Just'. Reading his POV's and how much better he has become as a person (Keeping his promise to Catelyn, doing justice, being less apathetic) is sad knowing that Tyrion is out there, stewing with rage and on his way back to Westeros.

    • Vlad Cirus
      Vlad Cirus Před rokem +15

      @Archives of Fantasy No, no he's not... the subjective structure of the book tricks the reader (and obviously D&D) but Tyrion does horrible things even in the first seasons/books. Just ask Symon Silver Tongue...

  • Green Man
    Green Man Před 5 měsíci +4

    It would certainly make more sense for the books to end in the way they the North, with Others and white walkers.
    Martin is a literary enough writer to understand and appreciate that type of narrative symmetry. If you read enough,, as he has done, you begin to understand that there are aesthetic choices that writers make for a reason.
    You could say, well, they make them out of convention. But very often conventions exist for a reason. This is true in composing music too.
    One of these conventions (for want of a better word) , a very important one, is how stories are structured. Creating what James Joyce, in his aesthetics, called harmony, meaning, roughly, that the pieces of the story must fit together in a way that feels right, isn't discordant, and that very often includes the harmony of the opening and closing.
    In short, I agree with this view, that the REAL ending for the series will be with Jon Snow and the struggle against what is still, in the books, a very unclear and not at all understood foe.
    Indeed, what I find most interesting is...what is the story of these chilly fellows and what is their intent. I do hope they are more than just some more blokes who want to run a country badly (in both senses). That would be such a prosaic denouement.

  • Steven Bugenske
    Steven Bugenske Před 7 měsíci

    This was terrific! Way better than the version we got on TV. Bravo 👏

  • LTE Tomahawk
    LTE Tomahawk Před 7 dny

    Can we count on you making a similar video on Jon Snow? I started with a show and he was always my favourite character, but then i got into the books and realised how much better he is there. Considering how much the show has downgraded him in the last few seasons, it would be interesting to see your analysis of the differences between the two versions of his character. Jon Snow in ADWD becomes much more mature, harsh and even more serious than before, but it is justified by the circumstances and it also makes him even more of a badass imo. I think after his resurrection in the next book, he moght go even further down that path, becoming much colder and ruthless of a leader as he will face the Boltons and presumably take back the North. Later, this new attitude might bring him into conflict with his friends and family, yet they might be able to bring his compassion and kindness back. It would be an interesting take to see Jon still being on the "good" side, but at the same time operating differently than the other "good" guys which may result in some conflicts. It would actually be a take on his character that i wished he took in the show- since the beginning, he was always kind of an outcast, being a bastard, kinda being forced to join the nights watch, sacreficing a lot to defend the realm. Most of the other characters never really cared for him so why he would cooperate with them when he comes back from the dead? I'd love to see him trying to do the right thing on his own, maybe reuniting with others later in the story. I would really like to learn your take on Jon Snow's character developement and possible future plotlines

  • Trekking Albertosaur
    Trekking Albertosaur Před rokem +26

    Burning Kingslanding (dragons & wildfire) could also be done to stop a large portion of the White Walker army from adding the millions of people within KL into the army of the dead, especially if fAegon/Cersei fail in defense of the city and the undead pour into the city.
    Thanks for this great character summary and interpolation.
    P.S. There is also Darkstar... as another possible Targaryen.

    • Pedro Lucas
      Pedro Lucas Před 11 měsíci +1

      No, I think Darkstar probably is Oberyn's or Lewyn's son!

  • lluewhyn
    lluewhyn Před rokem +3196

    So, on the one hand, the show-runners made Tywin an extremely popular character with their slight revisions to the character to make him more sympathetic. On the other hand, they deeply missed (or intentionally distorted) the point that Tywin is "full of shit". This is a common theme in the depictions of Tywin in the books. When Tywin approaches Joffrey after the battle of the Blackwater, Tywin's horse drops poop all across the floor. Tywin dies on a privy, finally releasing all of his shit. At his funeral, barely anyone can tolerate being there because his corpse reeks horribly. After the funeral, it's commented that a general rain has cleared the air and made it smell better. Tywin was full of shit, and the world is a better place now that he's dead and buried.
    Unfortunately, Tyrion (and Cersei) absorbed all of Tywin's worst lessions.

    • Catermiller14
      Catermiller14 Před rokem +220

      I love this explanation. Tywin WAS full of shit!

    • blachdog
      blachdog Před rokem +282

      What truly skyrocketed tywin's overall popularity in the show was his relationship with Arya Stark, or at least that is my guess. There are a lot of villains and characters in media and literature who fit a similar archetype but not many done as well as him, especially how George RR Martin portrays him in the books is absolutely spectacular. The best thing to do with a marketable villain, place That character in close proximity with someone who wants to kill them through a thin veil of ignorance. It's quite genius really.

    • Eld1abl0n3gr0
      Eld1abl0n3gr0 Před rokem +8

      Do you know, how Ilyn Payne lost he's tongue?

    • BrentVB
      BrentVB Před rokem +329

      @blachdog No, what TRULY rocketed Tywin's popularity in the show is Charles Dance's amazing performance. If you put Tywin in the hands of a lesser actor he wouldn't have been nearly as popular. Tywin (both in the show and the books) is a character who overplays a hand that has long run out of cards and expertly hides that fact. His money and power are gone, but he continues to act and play the Game of Thrones as though they are still there and Charles Dance perfectly portrays Tywin with the gravitas of the man with all his former power and wealth and allows no one to dare question whether he could use it.

  • HyperYami
    HyperYami Před 8 měsíci +1

    I'm more of a casual Game of Thrones fan, but I always fro it so damn crazy how Tywin raised his children. What would have happened if instead of hating Tyrion, he endured him. He encouraged him, pushed him, taught him, actually invested time in getting to know his son and preparing him for his ascension at Casterly Rock. He demanded more from Jaime, making him learn to fight with both his hands and utilize other battle tactics.
    As for Cersei, he complexly started grooming her at a young age to become a general or whatever she wanted out of life, instead of think she was unworthy of his attention. Tywin would be cold, stubborn, but also be fair, supportive, and built his children up instead of tearing them down. House Lannister would have been very formidable instead of a group of savages hell bent on destroying each other.

  • Gabe Itch
    Gabe Itch Před 10 měsíci +1

    I’m not sure that I would want him to become so vengeful but to see him lose the empathy we’d seen previously and have that impact a later moment where he tolerates brutality and fucked up shit would’ve been great. When shae(shay?) died, it was such a heartbreaking moment, but I was so disappointed with the payoff.

  • scy77a
    scy77a Před rokem +11

    i didn’t intend to watch this all in one-sitting, but watch it all i did! excellent video, excited for more to help mend my still-broken heart after season 8 ❤️

  • AlexIsModded
    AlexIsModded Před 2 měsíci

    I still question Tywin referring to Tyrion as "ill-made". Tywin loved Joanna and if they had conceived Tyrion, then I can't think of a reason why that would make Tyrion ill-made. That leads me to believe that Tywin is really saying that Tyrion is the son of Joanna and someone else, possibly the Mad King.

  • Ketsa Official
    Ketsa Official Před 9 měsíci +120

    I always thought Tyrion was an opportunist and I never saw him as a villain

    • Hostile At Heart
      Hostile At Heart Před 8 měsíci +17

      Sounds like you're still very entranced by the show version of him. Tyrion is deeply flawed and let's his emotions get the better of him more often than not. He is both more and less than an opportunist. He does not know the limits of his abilities yet he tries to capitalize on them at every turn. He rarely learns from his mistakes up to this point. He's bitter and resentful and sure, he will use any opportunity to get back at his adversaries but he's far from the cunning opportunist he wishes he were.

    • Sid New
      Sid New Před 8 měsíci +2

      @Hostile At Heart You are right on all this.
      Still, he is no villain.
      At least not for me.

    • Gen Urobutcher
      Gen Urobutcher Před 8 měsíci +3

      @Hostile At Heart he isn't a villain. He is an overall good man who has done terrible things. Better than most ASOIAF characters for sure. And the best story telling wise.

    • qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm
      qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm Před 8 měsíci

      @Gen Urobutcher he's so good he wants to destroy the entire realm

    • Gen Urobutcher
      Gen Urobutcher Před 8 měsíci

      @qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm that's just posturing. He's too much of coward to actually do it.

  • Limas
    Limas Před 2 lety +5447

    i really hope we are gonna get an entire "The Real" series of videos of all the noteworthy characters. Great vid and i hope for more

  • Barnesofthenorth
    Barnesofthenorth Před 5 měsíci +5

    The show did what a lot of TV for general audiences did sadly, it makes people black or white, you are either good or bad. They don't think audiences can cope with the idea of a good person doing bad things, or somebody who is maybe more leaning towards bad but is still likeable and you can understand how they got there.

  • Christine Streeter
    Christine Streeter Před 5 měsíci +3

    The fact that they left the whole Tysha storyline out made absolutely no sense to me. I think the thing that makes me the maddest about the final seasons of GOT was Tyrion being so desperate to save Cersi! That enraged me!

  • Daniel Declue
    Daniel Declue Před 12 dny

    In terms of Tyrion from the books, I won't lie, I kind of naturally assumed that Tyrion may actually end up being the one character who takes advantage of the stores of wildfire under King's Landing, not Cersei. It would definitely be cruel, evil, and duplicitous, of him to suggest that Danny burn " merely a small part" of Kings Landing, only to sit back and watch the fireworks as one stray spark sets alight the entire city. My question isn't whether or not he would do this to hurt his sister, because at this point we know he would. My question is, does he still have enough good in him to not take advantage of such a wicked idea, when he no longer cares about protecting the people of Kings Landing, and when he knows it would hurt his sister and her rule so badly

  • dannytheman1313
    dannytheman1313 Před 4 měsíci +1

    To be fair to the whole no nose thing it's the same as with the chair, would have been a strain on the production, the makeup would have taken hours to do, CGI is an option but they would have had to do it for every frame he was in from season 3 onwards, and I could imagine it getting very uncomfortable for him to act through the prosthetics. Plus audiences would have been too distracted that scene during his trial and the scene where Oberin comes to be his champion to his aid would have been way less impactful if we were looking at a giant hole in his face.

  • Justine Harper
    Justine Harper Před rokem +6

    I don’t think we’ll ever know for sure if Tyrion is a Targaryen or not, and I kind of like it that way. I constantly go back and forth on whether he is or not. It sounds crazy, but the Tyrion chimera theory makes sense too. And then there’s the idea that Jamie and Cersei are actually the Mad Kings children.