Russia’s horrors in Ukraine could make Eastern Europe ‘extinct’
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- čas přidán 27. 05. 2024
- ‘They share a history of being in the Russian empire, so they all rally together and there is a real alignment’
The identity of Eastern Europe is at risk of becoming ‘extinct,’ says Author of Goodbye Eastern Europe Jacob Mikanowski.
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I´m from Czechia and I agree. Calling countries like Lithuania, Poland, Czechia, Slovakia or Slovenia "Eastern Europe" was valid in the 1980´s. But nowadays, it´s just emphasizing the 40 years of ties with Russia at the expense of the 1100 years of ties with Germany, Austria and northern Italy.
those countries weren't tied to "Eastern Europe", they were enslaved by Soviet Russia.
Agreed 👍
I agree with you. Except for one point: the ties of Czech elites with Russia lasted for much longer than just those 40 postwar years. Remember Karel Kramář, the entirely russophile first prime minister of Czechoslovakia, remember Václav Beneš Třebízský who, as a Catholic chaplain in Klecany, publicly hailed Russian weapons and prayed for their success at a time when Russia had just committed horrible genocides in the Caucasus. With this goes that Karel Havlíček-Borovský warned our nation already in deep 19th century against building too close ties with the Russian Empire...
You must be young and unexperienced.. Anyone familiar with western values and mindset soon recognise that Eastern Europeans has another mindset, not always leaving a positive impression 😉
I have ties to Hungary and I agree to your assessment. However, I think, what is developing now, is a very strong "new Eastern Europe" in a positive sense - Baltics, PL, CZ, SK, UA, RO, BG, maybe GR. Basically, Russias' dream, but without Russia. This new Eastern Europe will be a dominant factor in the EU with close to 120million people and a lot of economical strength. If the Russians refuse to join this at some point, they will turn into a forgotten province of China very soon.
In Hungary, at the same time, KGB agent Viktor Orban dumbly follows orders from Moscow, and shoots more and more wounds into his own feet - this is my assessment since about 20 years, and it gets less and less deniable by the fascists in FIDESZ - who are, similar to Putins regime, mostly ex-communist secret agents and their families.
The Poles, being "historical good friends" of Hungary, exposed Orban's government on their undeniable close ties to Moscow, and as Orban denied to change his policy, Polish government decided to entirely stop communication with Orban. V4 is dead, sadly due to Orban, and New Eastern Europe emerges instead.
After UAF liberated Moscow 🤣 , they should ring sby in Hungary.
Even as a tourist I can really feel the change in Eastern Europe. I first went to Easter Europe as a 23-year-old on a young persons tour from Australia. I remember going to Sofia in Bulgaria and it felt and looked grey, the people seemed sad, the shops were basic, etc. Then going back to Sofia at 59 years it was then bright and colorful, the people smiled, the shops were plentiful. Sofia had turned vibrant as had most of Eastern Europe. Hopefully, the Russian people can undergo the same transformation in time.
I would hope so but Russians could be living much better than they are. The Russian state has made huge riches from the sale of energy products but it has been stolen and hoarded by an untouchable elite who live very well but have managed to convince their population that the West is responsible for their poor standard of development. Until Russia allows representation then its people will wallow in the ill effects of its aggressive and greedy policies.
Unlikely Russia will be doing that anytime soon, their country isn't exactly prospering at the moment. Further sanctions and being bogged down in Ukraine isn't going to help them.
I pray for that miracle along with others.
@@TheBub753 hahaha major city in Ukraine?? What a BS. Tell this to your Russian propaganda TV because they like to hear this....
@@TheBub753 Pollution monitors are showing a huge drop over Russian industrial sites. Have they changed to a more green technology lately?
Eastern Europe will be come part of Western Europe and Russia will become Eastern Europe, from the Russian border backwards.
But how long east-wards?
Xi, putin the little poisoners bff already making moves in far east provinces/republics of russia.
If Russia breaks apart, China will be ready to welcome those "new countries" into the Chinese sphere.
'Backwards' how far? At what point will 'Eastern Europe' become 'Eurasia' or Asia? Will China and/or India have the final say in that?
You may be right - I do not forsee that Russia is going to enter a war with Nato in order to conquer eastern europe, that is a ridiculous notion. It will instead focus on trading with China and other BRICS nations. Western hegemony does not sit well with those BRICS nations nor the tens of other countries who want to join BRICS - they are fed up of being pushed around by USA in particular. BRICS exists so that countries can trade with each other, help each other in developing their economies, no sanctions or other impediments to trade nor industry, that kind of helpfull thing.. It is not good for us if Russia turns towards the East in my opinion - it is a source of massive amounts of oil and gas, coal, steel, uranium, grain etc etc
It is up to the Russian people to define their future. The old generation that actually believes in all the propaganda will be gone in a few decades.
A proper working democracy should have Russia eventually lean West. I do not see many reasons for them to get much closer to China.
But it might take decades before Russia and the Russians come to their senses. This time they will have to prove themselves worthy. The gullible decades are over in Europe.
Russia will stay the outcast of the world.
Nothing creates brotherhood more than a common enemy.
It’s more a case of nazis stick together clearly
@Yanks Bigly wvil Latvia Lithuania Estonia Finland Czechoslovakia Hungary Georgia Ukraine Chechnya Crimean Tatars. Russian crimes are in to the millions dead. The Holodomor.
Yes! Thank you! This gentleman knows what he's talking about. Post-occupational post-colonial Baltic and Slavic block would agree with all that's been said here.
The last thing anybody wants is to be associated with russia lol. There's a reason people queue to get _into_ the EU, and queue to get OUT of russia lol.
Agreed! Probably with the exception of Serbia. Greetings from Czechia 🙂
@@martavdz4972 Serbia has always been a "Mini-Me" or Russia rather than being under Russian control.
@言行一致 Your keyboard is broken, it's writing english backwards and grotesque
Victory to the Ukraine 🇺🇦 🙌 💪
GLORY TO UKRAINE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Yanks Bigly wvil Thank you for your Russian perspective!
I agree you are our European brothers now after the cohesion you have shown during the last year, there is no Eastern Europe anymore, only Europe! Thank you, we are indebted to you !
Eastern Europeans don't want to be associated with russia. Never thought I'd see the day the Czech people are laughing at russia because russians don't have toilets lol.
Yeah right, be back when you had to work for a living with these primitive people 😂🤮
Great talk and wonderful guest but too brief an interview .
RS. Canada
Mr Mikanowski, knows what he is talking about! Kudos
yes, but could you please tell me the name of the presenter?
Much of what the writer mentions has been covered in Anna Reid's book, "Borderland". Granted, she has a bias toward Ukraine, but her historical research is most excellent. The roots of the current war are readily obvious and well laid out.
I am interested in that book would you recommend it ?
Everyone with any trace of humanity has a "bias" towards Ukraine. Who'd support child-murdering rapists?
Many Poles exited Poland in the early 1900's due to war and disease. The borders of Poland, Ukraine, & Russia
shifted like sand in the desert during this time. Polish General Pilsudski dreamed of the Baltic states being united
as a bulwark against Russia. He also said that Poland will not be free unless Ukraine was free as well. My hope
is that someday the Russian people will want to be part of the Western world. They came so close after Gorbachev
but Putin took control. Someday I hope this problem is corrected and all the nations of Europe can live in peace,
prosperity, and freedom. So sad to think that one "insect" could damage so much grain.
SLAVA UKRAINI HEROES 🇺🇦✌🏻🇺🇦🔱💪🏻
Defenders of the front of Freedom and Democracy in Europe 💙💛
If you think Ukraine is democratic you're a very deluded person.
Excellent and important interview !!
Great choice of guest, and a good interview. thank you
I won't pretend to know the history's but I will say that we should all learn to live with each other. Thank you 💛 and Slava Ukraine 🇺🇦
To a large extent we have. Hence, the EU The Russian government are perpetuating a conflict that does not really exist. It maintains that any country that wishes to be independent is really joining some Western club against them.
Pity that you contradict yourself in your comment. You start with an admirable plea for us to learn to live with each other, and you end by nailing your colours firmly on one side.
@@zulubeatz1 Russia has captured bakhmut uraaaaaaa 🇷🇺
@@mickaylin5992 and is about to be surrounded was it worth it?
@@robertatkins9419 Because one side is Invading the other maybe?
🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦💪💪💪love from the UK.🇬🇧
You are sooo brave
@@liveuser8527no tanks
He probably watched the Eurovision Song Contest with a box of wine 🍷 and some tissues
@@Kodakcompactdisc don't need tanks when you got shovels
@@robbiekop7 You're projecting.
The concept of Eastern Europe has aggravated me for 60 years only because I am 66. or it would have bugged me longer The Eastern European bloc woud have NEVER existed had it not been for the unadulterated prejudice of those who didn't speak French, German or English languages. The Pole and Czechs were betrayed before and after WWII first when the treaty for protection by France signed in Versailles was never going to be honored by France and British and Italy and then again in Munich. As if that wasn't enough betrayal, They were handed over to the USSR for post war oversight first at Yalta and again in subsequent agreements with the US and Brits. And they didn't get investmentment from Marshall plan because of the Soviets. IT IS ABOUT TIME IT IS EXTINCT EXCEPT AS A GEOGRAPHICAL DESCRITION
Poland is NOT anti-EU and are not any where near as contentious as the Brits were in it. Prague is west of Vienna. The Czechs are solidly in, not one foot out.
It's always funny (and telling) to look at the difference between post WWII countries rebuilt by the Marshall Plan vs. those that were controlled by the USSR.
Allied country: Rebuilt by America and GB, prosperous, democratic, free, maximizing human potential.
Axis: Poor, totalitarian, terrible infrastructure, wrecked potential. Same with with South Korea v. N. Korea. Just a shame that the US left Vietnam before a "South Vietnam" could be established. They'd be living like South Korea right now.😪
I'm curious how you would have proposed to get the Soviet Army out of those countries after WWII?
@@Seytom Europe was divided into USA oversight and Russia oversight at Yalta and Potsdam conferences before there was Soviet occupation without the participation of the contries affected. The answer is I would never had let it begin in the first place.
@@jeanneknight4791 correct. And several American generals wanted to continue eastward. It was a huge mistake not to let them....US could have defeated russia in eastern Europe. Instead, those countries had to live under repression and communism for another 45 years.
@@dpelpal The Czechs, Poles, Slovaks and Hungarians weren't communists to begin with and then this happened at Yalta and Potsdam. Churchill, Truman and Stalin. interfered with them in what I consider to be the second great betrayal. I am in the USA, btw, so this iwasn't my skin that suffered but I have always had a great affinity to that region for many reason.
I totally understand Jacob's point. I used to travel to Poland in the 60's 70's and 80's. The atmosphere and culture was so different from today. Poland is like any other Western European country now.
The things which stick in my mind.
Walking across a path / fields to get to a village or town
Small kiosks everywhere selling newspapers, cigs, snacks, etc.
Pop in bottles with a wire hinged top which you push to open (Grolsch beer type)
Sense of community - everyone would help each other
Having breakfast in a smokey Milk Bar in Warsaw or Katowice
A 3 day wedding on a purpose built outside pergola with a huge band and dance floor and the whole village attending.
Walking along a rail track to get to a tiny station and getting onto an old double decker train
Getting a cabin on a overnight sleeper train
Eating at a restaurant with waitresses in black with a white aprons, who would take your coat and hat as you enter.
Elevators with a double steel cage doors in the middle of staircases.
Warning - there may be some rose tinted spectacles involved here.
Sounds like fun to me. In the past, I never wanted to visit Poland or a Baltic state.
Now I really do want to visit.
Poland certainly went against the grain when it came to muslim immigrants ....rose tinted spectacles *removed* 👓🌹
It was exactly what you described.
It was wonderful!!!!
Yeah, walking in Warzaw today feels like any other european city. The old part of warzaw feels like walking in Haarlem in Amsterdam.
@@TheBandit7613 I on the other hand really wanted to see and visit Eastern Europe during the cold war - and did. I went to Russia, Hungary, Bulgaria and the German so-called Democratic Republic and saw how life absolutely shouldn't be: Grey and dull and full of people who seemed miserable. It also showed me how lucky I was to be a Dane living in a rich and well functioning country, Denmark. So these 'contrast tours' in many ways did a lot of good. And on behalf of those 'occupied' countries (Eastern Europe minus Russia) I'm happy to see that they are now on a better road towards the future. Communism just doesn't work!
In the same way that the Russian army was perceived to be the second strongest in the world, one could say that the perception that France and Germany were the core EU powers has dissipated. They have shown themselves (for various reasons) to be prone to vacillation. That has not been the case with the countries bordering russia, and it seems clear that one of the outcomes of the russian war in Ukraine will be the shift of EU power to a Central European block. Of course, for those who only ever knew the Iron Curtain it is easy to overlook the fact that these countries have ancient and often intertwined histories. Not always conflict free, but the commonality is a burning resolution never to be subject to Soviet/russian dominion again.
It's right what you said, there is this perception that France and Germany lead the EU. This perception was always false. We have a veto system in the EU, so all laws and decisions need to be approved by all sovereign nations of the EU. That's why we already have countrys like hungary and poland being able to block sensible initiatives (hungary blocked the latest round of money for ukrain)
I dont believe there will be a "Wirtschaftswunder" in ukraine like in germany after the WW2. Its because Russia is not the udssr and we dont live in a bipolar world anymore. for the US it is enough that there is war in ukraine. while there is war, the US can run its sanctions regime and western EU follows. When there is no war, W. EU wants to trade with russia and the LNG business in the US will collapse.
Platitudes. Vacillation, in the case of Germany, to spend about 5 billion Euros, does not sound like it aka the biggest supporter of Ukraine after the US. At the beginning Germany was moving slowly, understanding its history and their strong desire for "never ever again" it's quite understandable but now they are a fast moving supportive force. Smaller countries like Poland often were very vocal about their support though it did not always match the reality. Also understandable. For sure those Eastern countries knew better what we all could expect from the Russian criminals. Nevertheless we all are working together, I give a f*ck who gives more, this is not a party this is a war situation and a friend in need. We all help, not just the US, Europe and the UK but many other nations around the globe
it`s conflict free except serbia albania we dont have wars
@@tacticalsapper Bear in mind that at the start of the war, Germany's contribution was 5000 helmets. Your description of it being the second biggest supporter of Ukraine has only happened in the last couple of weeks despite the war being over a year old. Vacillation is therefore a valid description for the first 12 months. I'm glad things are changing now.
As a 40 year old, he cannot possibly remember what Poland was like, Im 52 and properly remember it, going on holiday there, where everything was rationed, but U know how it goes, U always knew someone who could sort things out ;) And yes Poland has changed, Ive lived here now for over 20 years, and its exactly the same as every other place these days , shopping malls etc, so no longer the wild east , which was certainly a eye opener, and exciting back in the day ....
Yeah right, just don't criticise anything Polish or question how heroic they all fought against the Nazis and saved all their fellow Jews 😉
Aggressions are never far away among Polacks 🤔🤪
@@OmmerSyssel What on earth are U on about????
Only one problem, Poland and Czechia are not in eastern Europe, but rather in central Europe. Eastern Europe was defined as those countries dominated by eastern (Orthodox) Christianity. In the 1950s, somebody in the Pentagon got tired of writing central and eastern Europe, and just dropped the "central" and created a false definition of eastern Europe.
And the nations of central and eastern Europe are just as much part of the European Union as any nation in western Europe. The "one foot" thing is BS (except maybe Hungary). Jusf because they do not parrot France and Germany does not make them any less European.
TBH, Eastern( and Northern...) Europeans are ... and please don't hate me for this...more Europeans than French or Germans or Brits...
All that high horse intellectual equality blabla is completely irrelevant when you're dealing with Eastern Europeans on your Western European work sites...
Most of you romantic intellectuals obviously never experienced a single day with practical work and responsibilities! 😂
Very interesting. I'm definitely going to check out the book "Goodbye Eastern Europe"
Thank you!
My parents grew up in pre-war Poland and they were very West European in outlook as was Poland itself. They settled in the UK after the war having served in the Polish Second Army. My dad was from the Polish corridor and his society was a borderland where both Poles and Germans co-existed for centuries. A Pole, he was nonetheless fluent in both languages. He would not consider himself "East European" at all and lived closer to Berlin than Warsaw. My mum lived all over Poland as my grandad was a professional army officer (killed in action defending Warsaw on 12 September 1939) and so they lived where he was stationed. Her mum, my granny, had French origins and was very aware of that. Again my mum and her family would never see themselves as "Eastern" partly as an aspect of religion. The "East" was the Orthodox Russians, Ukrainians and Belorussians. It was the Communist occupation that made Poland "East European" given the forced location of Poland into the Warsaw Pact and Eastern Bloc of Soviet influence. This was all contrary to the Western oriented Catholic culture of Poland which eventually threw off the Soviet system in 1989 and rejoined the West from where Poland had been taken in 1944.
Yep. My Irish first cousin married a Polis refugee from a noble but impoverished background (and closely related to thh Czar and the Kaiser and the King of England). They lived in the UK. He often lamented that his family should have remained Danish Calvinist Lutheran rather than become Catholic. But the nobility chose to be Catholic in order to be tied to Paris rather than Moscow. BTW, his father, a Polish army officer, was ikilled in the Kathyn (sp?) e massacre by the Soviets as they acted to wipe out Polish intellectuals and leaders who would continue favoring western Europe.
So the Soviet Era is disappearing. You really can feel it, but a unified Europe is brighter. Poland actually did disappear and came back to where it is now, chilled out and modern.
Ukraine 🇺🇦 will soon become a fully united country again free from all russian interference and become a new member of the European Union 🇪🇺 and NATO while the entire russian dictatorship will be completely dissolved, stripped of their nuclear weapons, and russia will be turned into separate smaller countries with no military power whatsoever!
Glory to all the brave people of Ukraine 🇺🇦 and all those who support them against the tyrannical dictatorship of russia!
SLAVA UKRAINE 🇺🇦!!!!
Bakhmut has fallen
That's exactly what Pooty said the West was doing using the Ukrainians as a proxy.
Great plan but it's not really working is it.
What's actually happening is Ukraine is being demilitarised and depopulated.
@@matthewrussell6527 : for sure still UKRAINIAN.
Dream on I'm sorry to say but that is so unrealistic don't believe the EU or NATO its like a card game ( We were just about to deal you 5 aces in the big card game honest.) It pays the West to say that just before Ukraine goes down oh we nearly had it . Joke. That's political posturing. Take a look at any country that the US has set its war machine on and ask just before the end what did they promise 5 aces sorry to say. Whats a worrying thing is POLAND is itching to jump into the fire keep well away . Have look at all the war studies on this scenario its bad very bad CENTRAL EUROPE unlivable Poland right in the worst position back off as it goes nowhere good .The USA needs a war it will blackmail Europe and sell arms and make the USA great so they say and Europe ow money to the money lenders for the next 50 years.
@@matthewrussell6527 relevance?
very interesting, thanks
The border's of Western Europe have been fixed for the last 4 or 5 hundred years. Did he really say that?
Yeah , I caught that as well .
British perception gap. Definitely wrong.
Might have to give this a read. Sounds interesting.
Yeah the term “ Eastern Europe” has been meaningless for a good 20 years now
Recently, I met with some young people from Latvia. They referred to the period 1940-1990 as "the occupation years".
Exactly, they have some lost generations to make up for, before becoming equal parts of Europe.
If Russians want to live like North Korea that's up to them but they should stop being preachers of aggression and hate.
Finland, the Baltics, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, Slovenia, Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Albania, Montenegro, Moldova, Macedonia and Greece are ALL in central Europe, not Eastern Europe. And they always have been. Eastern Europe is Belarus, Russia, Ukraine, Georgia and Armenia. It could also be reasonably argued that Czechia is in Western Europe. Prague is further west than Vienna.
I spent the best four years of my life in Poland from 1989 to 1993. Poland and Hungary led the way to get rid of socialism. Now I live in Berlin and spend a lot of time with my son in Poland. It is a shame that Poland and Hungary are now the black sheep of the EU and are doing their best to follow the Putin method of power consolidation. I still have a lot of hope for Poland, not so much for Hungary. Watching Polish state-run TV is like watching Russian TV, propaganda on steroids and all one-sided. I expect the Law and Justice Party to eventually lose its grip on power, but I hope they won't be replaced by other populists with no respect for the rule of law. I love traveling in Eastern Europe and have learned every language on the EU's eastern border from Finnish to Greek as well as Russian and Ukrainian. Sadly, few people care about the history and languages of Eastern Europe. Both are rich and fascinating.
I’m sorry to hear what you are saying about Poland since I avidly watch TVP, Poland’s English speaking Public TV channel, and it seems very cool, a bit like my local Public Radio station in very blue California-Which is to say not at all like Russia’s State TV! I can’t imagine “Break the Fake” on Russian TV as hard as I would try, but it would be a better world if it were. Perhaps, Andy you should watch TVP World for a different voice from Poland. Alas, Hungary, home of my ancestors, does not seem to be faring so well, in that I must agree.
TVP is one sided propagand only for polish politics, world programming is pretty good😊
@@war-painter Sorry to disappoint you, but we have a huge internal conflict in Poland and half of the nation truly despises the populistic party in power, who's electorate is based on the country side and uneducated benefit seekers. One of the reasons they're still a leading power is that they were able to take over TVP and turn it into their propaganda tube. Myself and my circles truly hope they'll be beaten during the autumn elections, and if, Poland's stance on authoritarianism and EU integration will change dramatically.
@@war-painter - "Perhaps, Andy you should watch TVP World for a different voice from Poland."
I'm sorry, but according to my observations TVP's content is mostly well-made propaganda. It's alluring, as well made propaganda tends to be. The channel cleverly mixes truth and disinformation to a smooth package, which easily causes a viewer who isn't well aware of the related facts to get deceived. In regard to this war, the channel is of course very pro-Ukraine and anti-Russian, which is a good thing, but not in the least surprising for a Polish channel.
One thing that's pretty clear is that the current Polish government and the leading right-wing populist party are playing a game where they try to cement their power, and put end to (real) democracy in Poland, and also cause discord inside the EU so that other member countries would be distracted from the fact the Polish government is acting against the foundational values of the union, and that they wouldn't be able to do anything about it. The government is doing so by weakening democracy in Poland, attacking the independence of the judiciary, working against the freedom of the press, corrupting governing bodies and making it more difficult for other political parties to work in the country.
As one Pole recently said to me (and andriuss A wrote here), just like the USA, Poland is currently very divided both politically and as a society. One part is steering Poland to what I described above, and the other wants to develop the country towards the best European democratic values. The right-wing, authoritarian side is part of the same phenomenon as Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans in the USA, Jair Bolsonaro and Liberal Party in Brazil, Viktor Orbán and Fidesz party in Hungary, and ultimately, Vladimir Putin in Russia. The general anti-Russian attitude of the Polish people may cause you to not see the fact that the current Polish government is steering Poland politically to the direction of Russia, not western democracies.
You of course shouldn't just blindly trust what I say, but I suggest that you pay attention to what I described above. One of my biggest interests in life are what's true, what's not and what's somewhere in between, how words are used to manipulate people, and how people are able to make others to want to believe them. I'm over 60, so I've been around. I'm neither cynical nor naive. My natural character is such that I tend to trust people, but life has taught me to be careful and observant in addition to that. Luckily I live in a country that is one of the least corrupted, has one of the best-working democracies and has one of the freest presses.
I didn't vote for PiS in 2015, but I've been voting for them since 2019 and it will stay that way for now and before you ask I don't watch any TV, PiS seems to be the party that cares about Polish interests the most since 1989, although I have a lot of criticism for them. If leftist media with germans on the fore front want to paint Poland as a black sheep so to be, as the old Polish proverb saying psy szczekają, karawana jedzie dalej
Real life demonstration of the saying that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”.
Not just that. For example, Lithuanians and Latvians speak similar languages and have similar cultures. No reason for them not to cooperate. Same goes for Poles and Czechs, Czechs and Slovenians etc. Some of those countries have something in common, as they were part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire for 300 years.
Fine interviewer. Like John also with Times Radio, little jibber jabber when asking questions. Great interview.
yes, but could you please tell me the name of the presenter?
@@sebastianverney7851 John Pienaar. He has also been an editor with the Times Radio.
@@govinda102000 No, this is not John Pienaar.
A massive population decline in Eastern Europe in general hand in hand with population ageing.
I first went to Poland in 1982 and am still here today!
Hey do a video on Bakhmut!
Nice to have an idea seconded by someone smarter than myself- as a Brit living in Poland under 4 governments now, I too have the impression that a lot of the United Right's rhetoric towards the EU/Germany/conflation on the two is largely for domestic consumption.
Poland is in Central Europe, Eastern Europe begins in Belarus
Interesting note here. Nixon predicted this falling of Russia in his book. Just Google him in an interview back in 1994
Russia will go the same way which the USSR went.
Nixon's only virtue was a real talent for foreign relations
@@boink800 you wish but not gonna happen Russia has been around for a 1000 yrs No USA that time !!
@Yanks Bigly wvil Very good . Now collect your potato .
@Yanks Bigly wvil It's just a matter of time when Russia destroys itself.
The country that gave the world Philip schofield talks about inflicting horrors on innocent foreigners. We have to own our shame
How will Holly survive now
@@Kodakcompactdisc if we can provide Philip with f16s he can flank the sofa from the south and surround it trapping the new encumbants in a pincer movement
Eurasia, from the Atlantic to the Pacific is a result of 1500 years of both war and peace in which all the people have learned the extent to which their community could either expand into or defend against neighboring communities. As the war component of this learning is now influenced by each of a high-trust superpower and a low-trust superpower, the people are choosing which superpower to trust. As such, their notion of community becomes absorbed by the superpower they've chosen.
But then, all it takes is Genghis Khan to upset the apple cart.
I don't think there are any superpowers in Asia or Europe. If there were, they'd have toilets, etc.🤣
Very interesting..shame the quality of the connection was so poor.😮
You could have describe Britain the same way in the fifties. We were still being rationed.
Eastern Europe really has been reduced to just Russia, Belarus and Serbia
you forgot ukraine, moldova, romania,macedonia, most of yugoslavia.
Now only Russia is Eastern Europe. Everyone to the west is now Central Europe or Northern Europe or Southern Europe.
Interview stops in the middle. Seems like there was more , but cut off.
Once Ukraine wins the war and Belarus being liberated from the dictatorship, i do hope eastern Europe or the center and the end of Europe get as wealthy and prosperous as western Europe.
If the EU is a organization to benefit everyone then it should do its job properly so everyone gets its fair share in quality of life and conveniences without compromising the other.
So its not east vs west just all of Europe as one.
But in the meantime, its a growing pain to integrate former soviet countries into the EU collective that has to benefit them in the long term, and you´ll get oppositions like Orban or the far right Poland groups, but that will eventually fade away and non of these countries want to leave the EU as they are benefitting from it.
But it seems that eastern europe wants to rid itself from the soviet feeling and emotions towards a new defined Europe.
We need real change for Europe in the long term future.
Is it correct that the Balkan countries are emptying as the younger people head west, leaving the elderly in the villages to care for each other?
Why Ukraine need to wait all these years, than war, and only after that they must become wealthy?
He thinks...... the dude just wants to sell a poor thought out book.
I sit here in pretty much the same headset as the presenter and I can only think "straighten the headband! Good god, man, how is that comfortable?" But these Beyerdynamics sound lovely!
I met a man from Czech Republic and I said he was from Eastern Europe. He said, most definitely, no I’m from Europe.
Yep, I´m from Czechia and I´d say about 50-60% of people here hate being called "Eastern European". Myself included. It´s ignoring the fact that we had ties to Russia for 40 years but had ties to Germany, Austria, Poland and northern Italy for about 1200 years. Our history is all about conquering parts of Austria, being conquered by Austria, conquering parts of Poland, being ruled by Luxembourgers and Poles-Lithuanians, paying taxes to Germany, adopting German inventions, hiring Italian architects, marrying Italian noblewomen etc. etc. There´s nothing about Russia in our history till around 1805.
There is a lot of overblown pride in Eastern Europe.. Geography doesn't change a mindset!
Try working with these people and be back.. Undercutting wages and ruining safety standards while leeching on welfare benefits. Truely European standards 🤔🤪
As a political block, maybe, but we can definetely still see the ethno-linguistical thing going on. We, western Europeans, are a bit different from southern Europeans, and then eastern Europeans again are a bit different...
Oh and eh. I don't mean "different" as a negative. Nor do I see a problem in pointing it out. I love Europe! But we're not a monolith, and construing the European Union and Europa to be one and the same thing is simply incorrect.
A historian identifies when Eastern European history started 1,000 years ago. 👀
I guess the eastern Roman and Persian empires, Bulgars, the Celtic & Gothic tribes - they're all chopped liver?
The lines are blurred. Parts of the Western Roman Empire (Rome) are now in "Eastern Europe".
My country 'started' in 966 by turning from paganism to Christianity. We obviously had tribes and states before that, however, it's not written on paper. That being said every now and then archeologists find graves and contructions from a period before the 966.
@R C If were are just talking about the written history of the Slavs then the oldest Slavic script is the Glagolitic script, created in the 9th century by St Cyril (born Constantine, 826-869) and St Methodius (815-885)
@RC-ei5xi
the set of "whole recorded history of X" is an interesting point.
There is a finite body of historical documentation.
The further one goes back in time, the less documentation exists.
The question becomes one of "wholeness." At what point does the record become "insufficiently whole" to be considered complete.
Must all countries acheive the same level of documentation before the record is deemed complete?
Beyond the impactful ebb & flow of kingdoms, duchies, empires, etc. on the historical records, who determines sufficiency of the records?
Why would Byzantine and Persian documentation before 1000 years ago not count.
My point: it's artificial to present that history started 1,000 years ago.
The answer is not as crisp as you seem to think.
course not
I just left some "word salad" for a commenter. To highlight my point in a concrete way, I suggest:
- look up "The History of Byzantium" podcast
- author Robin Pierson maintains a website with maps of the Roman/Byzantine empires _and adjacent lands._ This shows that we have knowledge of "non-geologic" history before 1,000.
P.S. Do palimpsests count as recorded history or not?
Geographically speaking , what you call Eastern Europe , it's actually Central Europe , with Eastern Europe being well inside Russia , up to the Ural mountains...!!!
so eastern europeans do not want not be stigmatised as poor and spiritual hence they prefer to be called central european. the problem is not with EE but with the outsiders perspective on EE. We EE are tired of colonial gaze on them. Remember that german reporter who was shocked that ukrainians are “just like us” (meaning germans). That’s what colonial gaze is, and that’s disappearing.
but we're poorer when compared to Westerners...but decades ahead when compared to Russians... It's a really complex topic, as complex as the subject of racism in EE....
Eastern Europe will always remain Eastern Europe.
It´s both a fight against stigmatization and for a simple geographic term.
@@DerDop Yeah, IMHO it´s when the term Central Europe comes in handy. It describes exactly this. "Somewhere in-between", for a lack of a more precise and complex term.
@@Exxperiment626 nope, it doesn’t. The average Polish will be richer than the average Brit by the end of this decade, and that’s according to British statistics…does that mean that UK is Eastern European?
Eastern Europe is extremely conservative. Nothing wrong with that!
Good to see polish author
Yeh. Now its just the east of Europe.
Good Discussion. ... Poland and Hungary may be authoritarian BUT Poland is thriving economically and Hungary is not. Ther's a historic reason for this. After the Soviet fall three Harvard Law graduates were invited to Poland to write a comercial law code for Poland, based on how contracts are made and how they are binding under the power of the courts. This made all the difference for German and western investment in the country. The other ex-Soviet vassals remained without clear, fair and enforceable commercial codes. They still operating in a leftover of Soviet ethos of replacing law with intuitive, personal; arrangements and/or with the authority of a local and national strong man. Such arrangements often arbitrarily change, with no concern for who gets injured. The Hungarian strong man does not get this aspect of the difference between Eastern Europe and Western Europe. Fairly enforced ommercial law and binding contracts are a key pillar of western European culture. This enshrinement of contracts has an eventual spiritual dimension including gradually inducing the notion that arrangements between men and women are contract based, between two equal parties, especially in marriage, and are not based on a "natural" law of complementarity. ... P.S. I knew one of the lawyers who went to Poland to write the commercial law code. ... P.P. S. Lack of the rule on contract law also plagues most of Latin America, with its tedency to fall back on strong man rule, form the right or the left. ... P.P.S. Good discussion. Of Irish parentage with collateral ancestors fled to Austria due to the persecution of Catholics, I have always been fascinated by the multi-ethnic, muti-religious nature of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.For instance, to go to university you had to have a perfect attendance record at your Catholic, Muslim, Protestant or Jewish place of worship. Jews went to the German speaking universities because the German culture within Austro-Hungary was tolerant and respectful of Jews even though it was in many ways anti-Semitic. And Austrian rule in western Ukraine led to thsi area becoming largely Catholic and transformed it economically from subsistence farming to export-driven commercial farming.
LATVIAN ice-hockey medal is IMPORTANT!
Of anti-ape dictatorship.
In Finland, we (most 90) rooted for you.
Do people of North or South Carolina or North or South Dakota in the US care ? It’s should be geographical not political.
👍👍👍
Eastern Europe is like yankee, never "here" but "there".
east europe still retains, at least among it's populace, a moral compass. Something the 'west' lost a long time ago.
Please can someone tell me the name of the presenter.
Interesting ,. Without getting messy ,ok
Call it what you want, it will do well.
Homeboy needs a better microphone. I can hardly understand him
pffffffft.
FIVE EYES PROPAGANDISTS FAILING
FIVE EYES FALLING
$LAVA, $LAVA
Victory to Ukraine 🇺🇦
Capitalism and the West are hugely flawed.......however they both look perfect when held up to the Soviet/Russian model of the last 80 years!
"The enemy of my enemy ..."
Hear, hear to every single word he said.
I´m sorry, Alex´ sound is so poor that I had to exit this video even though it was very interesting.
Also traveled in the area recently and visited many quote Eastern European countries. I found them to be completely different cultures different foods in different languages. And different customs although all of them are in fact Christian I think Lionel. I think the analysis here is very very overanalyze d
What about America and NATO horrors in Yugoslavia,Irak, Syria , Lybia, Yemen, exetera….
....Any association with russia, in other words, is embarrassing for them.😅 I can totally understand where they're coming from lol.
@sararot no
@@dpelpal Bakhmut is now in complete Russian control 😀 Sky news even admitted that Russian forces were effectively in control of Bakhmut for weeks!
@@dpelpal No surprise that Zelenskiy wants to be anywhere but Kiev!
@@dpelpal So when is this magical offensive happening 🤔 An offensive that Zelenskiy doesn't want to undertake because he knows it will fail and break his regime!
@@Robert-xy4xi I think that's what they said right before Ukraine took back Kharkiv and Kherson😂
I am Polish. If you look at Poland through Polish government and its acts you can not see the whole picture. Poland is split and devided. Western and Eastern Poland are two different worlds. Polish society is very pro EU. Polish government is not. Poland is a land of paradox. We can be the best and we can be the worst at the same time and there is nothing in the middle. This is who we are. When there comes a danger and we have to do something without a long term plan, we are united, we do what is right and we are the best.
Aggressions are never far away when among Polacks... No admirable habit! 🤪🖕🏻
@@OmmerSysselIvan, I know you are Russian propaganda troll from other channels, you never fail to lie. Check Russian aggressions: above 20 in the last 100 years alone.
Regarding the major subject: current government is not anti EU, they are anti federalization. They would be lost w/o EU and they know it. You do not get basics, going out of EU is impossible by Poland and EU knows it and pushes Poland to limits. Takes 30 sec to be informed that Poles present the BIGGEST PRO-EU support among all EU countries, according to polls. And it is afer 8 years of alleged anti-EU dictatorship🙄. How sny government would be successful in taking Poland out of EU in such situation?
Some argue that the East-West divide has its root is the Battle of Teutonburg; in early Roman times.
Very enjoyable discussion, being well versed on the subject myself it was a pleasure, except one thing.
I'm sorry, but I have to point out obvious misinformation, 'fake news", etc.
NO, borders of Western Europe weren't fixed for past 400-500 years.
It's ludicrous statement only possible if you know nothing about European history. If anything until collapse of the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth with first partition of it in 1772, Western Europe (west of line Oder rivier and northern borders of Ottoman Empire (modern day Hungary) consisted of like 100 various states, kingdoms, principalities, free cities, monastic domains and so on. Until age of absolutism when united France was born, Austria-Hungary, then Prussia, Italy, Russian Empire was at the line of the Vistula rivier, FLUID borders were normal state of affairs in Western Europe - everybody was at war with everybody - not in Central/Eastern Europe. Have you seen a map of so-called "Holy Roman Empire" at the zenith of its corruption & delusions of importance? No GPS would help you to navigate this mess.🤣
Just for quick reference (even if it lacks low level details) a YT video on the subject:
czcams.com/video/gzXoc8y2G0k/video.html
I agree, the fixed borders thing is simply not historically accurate. And I don´t understand where he´d put Austria-Hungary. It comprised of countries now considered "Western", like Austria and northern Italy, and countries now considered "Eastern", like parts of Romania.
If Eastern Europe can continue to resist Western Liberalism I think it could survive.
In regards to Poland and the EU, Poland saw it as a form of protection from Russia. It does not and will not agree with agenda that the EU has. There are many in other EU countries that do not agree with the EU but they are given little exposure by the London/msm media. As for Polish TV, well I watched some German TV during the covid crisis and it was like being back in the DDR - very one sided and very little tolerance for different views. Oh yes, one last thing - Poland considers itself to be in Central Europe.
Interesting how negative UK and Poland acts against EU, while having no issues with the economical advantages?
Both received huge subventions, while contributed as little as possible, except for quarrel and conflicts..
😂💸💸💸🤮
” Eastern Europe “ … in other words Kahzaria . 😊
U just discribed what I see when I go to 3rd world devolping nations.
So he wants to see people luning up for bread or what?
He's only discovering this now ????? 😂😂😂😂
Oh no, it is not disappearing… It’s the non-EEST immigrants and Western Europeans denying the struggles and disadvantages of EEST immigrants in the west. That’s the problem.
It was always going to vanish. Either it would be integrated into Europe and its way of life, or become ‘West-Russia’. No one wants the latter.
Goodbye, Eastern Europe: An Intimate History of a Divided Land. A new history of Eastern Europe, covering all the countries between Germany and Russia, from Estonia in the north to Albania in the south.
Starting in the first millennium A.D. and running up to the 2022 invasion of Ukraine, the book tells the story of a region long derided as the “other Europe.” ....It also narrates Eastern Europe’s tumultuous path through the 20th century, with the highs and lows of national independence, world war, Stalinism, socialism and finally, a return to freedom.
A long passage, sometimes comic, but usually tragic, which has ended in 2023 just as it began in 1914, with the region as yet again a flashpoint for global conflict. ... describes the life and times of a place riven by multiple borders - of religion, empire, class and ideology - which have combined to make it unlike anywhere else.
It's their war not the weat s to start with a nuclear war
Yeah, well Slavs are fighting each other. One side is about moving away from the East and moving more towards Western Europe (like he said at 2:20), 100% what the Ukraine war is about.
In other words bye-bye Perun, hello Odin. I remember it used to be a point of pride that the 2nd strongest nation in the world were Slavic, now it has been turned against itself and being torn apart.
It's all Europa. Or West Asia if you like
Glory to ukaine 🇦🇺🇮🇹👍👍👍
I get what this guy is saying but he might want to travel the world a bit, he may see the whole world has changed over the past 30years!
Outside of N. Korea you cant name me 1 country thats hasnt changed by progress and the internet world
Hmmm nostalgia for no food in the shops, polluted air... boy is he a sick puppy...couldn't listen.
Wagner have won this pyrrhic victory for Russia in this pointless war at the cost of tens of thousands of lives.
Pointless victory in a war tgey are loosing.
Slava Ukraine Glory to the Heroes.
The ONLY religions that are closest to my heart, and that i have any interest in, are the Nordic religions and the green religions. e.g. Wicca.
Russia has this fervent desire which borders on obsession to have the line between the Russian Federation and NATO become as short as possible, and if they keep proceeding as they are currently, they may indeed get their long-awaited wish. Because, if you draw the line and do the math, ironically, the _only_ way to minimize this _line_ is to reduce the size of Russia! - j q t -