STAR TREK: TNG, Sub Rosa, S7x14, GALLIFREY GALS GET WARPED
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
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It seems there was a little hiccup during the export of this episode. The first few minutes in the reaction the alignment will be a little off but it goes back to normal the moment the reaction starts!
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PAULA DEMING
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KATRINA ALYSHA
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It looks like today's CZcams cut of Sub Rosa uploaded early but there's no going back now! Never got a notification that it went live so I'm not sure how that happened... Maybe I should have blown that candle out last night.
I just assumed you couldn't wait to get this one out😄
DINNAE LAI THA CANDOO!
Lol Paula getting more and more smiley right from the start, trying not to spill the beans? To wild eyes poking out over a stuffed narwhal. Priceless 😂
I was just impressed she kept it together while confirming the episode title before it even started haha
I love Troi's reaction to Beverly telling her that whatever else he was, he made her grandmother happy. Not horror, not compassion, just a blank stare. Yeah, you found that One episode.
I like to think that even Troi, counsellor, therapist and empath, is just looking at Bev and thinking "nope, I got nothing"
I think that's the "Sure, honey, if it makes you feel better to think that" look.
lol I never remembered that (only having seen the episode once before, for obvious reasons). It's not just a blank stare - I think she's slightly raising an eye brow, as if to say "guuuuuuuuuurl????"
This one episode is a bigger insult to Dr Crusher than an entire season without her.
"I did fall asleep reading a particularly erotic chapter in my grandmother's Journal" how did they even get passed that line I wonder how many takes that took.
Shows us these people are Professionals! *insert Patrick Stewart “Acting!” gif*
must have been particularly dozy if she fell asleep while reading it.
Paula is shielding herself from the embarrassment
My birthday present came early
The episode of Gates McFadden' podcast where she's explaining this episode to Kate Mulgrew is hilarious
Oh, I have GOT to hear that. 😆
@@Tuning_Spork "Gates McFadden Investigates: Who do you think you are?" podcast. Episode 203.
That whole episode is wildly insightful.
Episode 203 at 55:38
I love the little nerdy detail, of where that's a 100 year old weather control station, the screens have TOS-movie style LCARS. Mike Okuda was always on that shit.
“I’m gonna go live in my grandma’s house and wear her clothes “. 😂
McFadden and Frakes would love your reactions! She is very open about this episode's less-than-great reputation. I knew this video would be great, but your reaction literally had me laughing out loud from almost the first moments of the episode.
I remember her mentioning it on one of her podcast episodes, though I don't remember if it was with Frakes and another Star Trek cast member.
@@Quirkyalonester It's at the end of the Kate Mulgrew episode, she explains the plot to Mulgrew who can't believe it. McFadden calls it completely stupid or something along those lines and Mulgrew answers Voyager had some of those too, it's pretty funny.
This is a bigger test of character for Gates than the Kobayashi Maru test.
at the time that this episode came out, cheap 'romance novels' were all the rage with women, and this episode played out like one of them. I think it's one of those episodes where you had to understand the fads to really see why it was made and (at the time) liked
Dorn had called it a rip-off of an Ann Rice novel.
My mom was into romance novels right around during these years, and still remember first starting to find a couple lying around the house and realizing she was reading them.
Fabio was all the rage… and Ron Moss.
@@brendanfalvy1281 clearly the only thing that could have improved Sub Rosa was casting Fabio as the ghost 😄
it was fun watching paula hide behind the stuffed purple shark-dolphin-unicorn-whale as she tried to hold it together.
@ice44 Narwhal (Monodon monoceros) is the animal represented by the stuffed toy.
In TV soundstage circles, it's bad luck to mention this episode by name. You have to call it "The Scottish Planet Episode".
.....
MACBETH
Sub Rosa is a Latin term meaning “under the rose”, a flower that is a symbol of secrecy.
It usually refers to a clandestine meeting or a forbidden relationship.
today on Maury Povich "I had an affair with my dead grandma's, ghost boyfriend, and regret everything"
Here it is! That episode we've all been waiting for... "you're not nana! Nana's dead".
The groundskeeper is pure cartoon.
Dinna light that candle!!!!!!
I wish his name was William, named after Groundskeeper Willie on the Simpsons....
It's the 24th century and he's a human being living on an alien planet controlled by technology! Why is he ranting about ghosts snd curses?!
@@brianstraight9308 Haha, good call, he should've had lines like "tha house is haunted, by an incorporeal alien! Dinna light that candle, which emits an inexplicable number of tetryon particles!"
As much as people criticise this episode, they miss the full experience I had watching this as a Scottish kid.
It's like watching an episode where people decided to create a planet of Native Americans - except doing it 1950s cowboys and Indians stereotype version
That does sound...surreal haha.
OMG, I was a young man when this first aired! I'm glad you found it as ludicrous and dumb as I did 30 years ago!! There are a few good ones still to come, hang in there ladies!
“sub rosa” means “under the rose”; the Romans would hang a rose over the banquet table to indicate that everything said at the table was to be kept confidential.
You know we've all been waiting for you to react to this. You did not disappoint!
Having never re-watched it, I missed that Frakes directed it. I do think his "yeah, the fog just rolled in on us" line is really funny. In hindsight I like to think Frakes delivery is subtly telling us that he knows nothing about this episode really makes sense.
It's such a sign of the times that most of the Troi or Crusher -centric episodes involve some kind of "romantic" involvement. Although compare this with "Remember Me" which is one of my favourites with this absolute trash fire.
I'm not sure I've even seen this one all the way through one time. I was considering skipping this video until I'd gone through it as part of a personal start-to-finish watch I have planned, but I just had to see their reaction haha.
That Frakes line is great. I also enjoyed Picard's "what the hell is this??" in the transporter room followed by Crusher's super casual "I'm resigning energize"
Everytime I think that TNG is a perfect show.... I always think of this episode, and correct myself.
This is one of the episodes I describe when listing extremely silly premises of Star Trek. Another is when Data subconsciously attempts to commit murder when the warp core is invested with space ants which results in Picard being unable to get to a party. Or the time a little kid kidnaps Riker and gaslights him for the better part of an entire day and then Riker, upon learning the kid's name, purposefully uses a made-up name. Or the time Yar got a robot drunk and had sex with him. The difference between those and the time Crusher got caught having sex with her grandmother's ghost boyfriend is that those episodes were all actually pretty good.
The women who loved this episode read romance novels and that's probably where this came from.... Back in the day, supermarkets and CVS/Walgreens like stores were filled with romance novels. This really "feels" like it came from there.
I read romance novels and no, I didn't like this episode.
You can imagine the book cover with Fabio in a kilt.
For those keeping count this is the 6th unexpected or surprise relative appearing this season
A pivotal episode of Star Trek, in that it reminded you in the last season that this was the same TV series that made Code of Honor.
This was just bad, though, not racist. It's got that going for it, at least.
@@StarkRG This episode was very offensive to the incubus community!
@@theevilascotcompany9255 Well, _now_ who's being bigoted. The *cubus community has been gender neutral for over a decade now. They accept in-, suc-, and everything in between and beyond.
@@StarkRG I never understood what made code of honor a racist episode. I always thought it was (to use present day terms) a very inclusive episode towards the Black/African American culture.
@@DrummingWriterTrekfan84 And what part, exactly was a positive depiction of Black Americans? The "we own women" bit? The "we are savages with death duels" bit? The over-the-top tribal culture? They are depicted as backwards savages. The only episode which comes close to being that racist is Up the Long Ladder.
This episode is one of the best sources for Star Trek memes on Facebook.
Yay! Ghost-Sex-Candle! :D Single handedly the best science fiction story in history. Can’t believe they didn’t make it into a movie!
Pretty sure I saw Ghost Sex Candle at the Isle of Wight festival in '74.
Woah, Paula mentioned Naren Shankar as "a writer and producer on the show". He was a writer on TNG (not producer), in what looks like his first job in the industry, but what I recognised his name from is as the showrunner for the entire run of The Expanse and, apparently, executive-produced a season of Farscape.
Naren Shankar? Finally, some "The Expanse" content on this channel! (Shankar would go on to be the showrunner for The Expanse).
The Belt remember's the Canturberry
On IMDB, the only TNG episode ranked lower is Shades of Gray, the only clip show in the series.
No science explanation. Nothing.
Everyone is just like "Scottish ghost in a candle- sure, makes sense."
I think the science explanation is that he isn't a ghost. He is an alien life form that used her family's energy to survive.
@@LB-gz3ke Yeah,I am surprised more fans didn't bring up that they did try to explain that it wasn't technically a ghost.
The Narwal of Shame seems to have been needed for this episode! Two things:
First, I saw this episode as a young man when it first aired and looking back have to credit it with my, ahem, awakening. My lovely red-headed wife of 17 years must never know!
Secondly, keep reading the IMDB comments for the episode - the actual writer of the episode shows up there to provide some clarity around a scandal involving accusations that she had plagiarized the story that I think is very much worth knowing.
This episode is SO bad, but Gates is such a good actress that I find myself skipping rewatches out of a sense that I am actually witnessing a few private moments I am not meant to see…
I always found Gates McFadden/Dr. Crusher an attractive lady as well! Maybe I also just like redheads? lol
Here it is. Finally. Star Trek's greatest achievement.
Lol
Hot take of the last millennium
no...we didnt cross that "threshold". it is a close runner up though
@@dustinherk8124 Ha....I was thinking about that.
The countdown is finally over. The two episodes I was most excited about is Sub Rosa and The Inner Light, obviously for very different reasons.
DANNAE LOIT THAT KHANNAL
AND DOONT GOO IN THE HOOSE
YOU'RE NOT NANNA
NANNA'S DEAD
I am Gen X and I watched first run - there was no internet to rant into when this came out and I was just alone with my seething about this Fabio romance novel cover of an episode.
BUT
While the episode remains a shit sandwich which only gets slimier with time - the conversations and fan community running commentary about Sub Rosa ARE EVERYTHING.
The ghost candle memes - the cosplay! The evolution of still images that have become internet lore about Crusher being a stoner.
The cast responding to its mention on panels. Gates herself embracing it with much humor.
I would have never guessed 30 years ago when I seethed alone about this creepy episode that it would eventually be SO FUNNY.
Duncan Regehr who played Ronin also played 90's TV Zorro, and Dracula in "Monster Squad". His Dracula wasn't sexy or campy, but an actual scary bastard. He was great.
Also Earth Star Voyager!
Whatever you think of this episode (I for one think it's very dumb), your reactions were both very funny.
Sub Rosa literally translates as 'under the rose', but it also has a meaning of 'something done in secret'.
Ooooof, this episode never disappoints my disappointment.
An episode so bad they made it up to McFadden by letting her direct an episode - or so legend has it
08:03 Kat's face... 😂😂😂
Oh god... Ghost sexy times on Planet Scotland. FML.
If there was a sign TNG had run its course and it was time to put it out of its misery - THIS was that sign!
If you're seein' Nana
Visions in your head
Who you gonna call?
Ghostbusters!
But you know it ain't real
'Cause Nana's dead
Who you gonna call?
Ghostbusters!
***The fact that the Ghostbusters could have shown up in a Star Trek TNG episode and it would have 1) actually improved the episode, and 2) probably not been the weirdest, most out-of-left-field development in the story is a testament to how dumb/insane this episode truly is.
What's most surprising about this for me is that Jeri Taylor went on to be one of the co-creators of Star Trek: Voyager the following year. She's a phenomenally talented woman. The fact that she provided the story for this turd of an episode boggles my mind.
I swear they forgot how many episodes they were contracted for and had to pull an all-nighter throwing something together to fill their order. It's about the only way this many talented, Star Trek veterans could be involved in something this awful. They can go on record with all of the behind-the-scenes stories they want about how this episode came about ... but I'm sticking with my own head canon on this one.
I had forgotten the episode existed, probably with good cause 😂😂
Treks kinkiest and most gothic episode, I loooove this one.
I'm binge-(re-)watching your TNG reactions while stuck at home with COVID, and Kat's sudden "WHOOO AAARE YOUUU" nearly brought on SUCH a coughing fit from laughing :D
I never comment on videos, but this time I have to. When the street racing happened, the thought that came to mind instantly was, "Yeah, they're trying to get the fuck away from that episode."
As a kid who grew up obsessed with TNG, this was the episode where I kinda thought, "perhaps its a good thing we're not getting a season 8!" How this script got all the way to production I'll never know. The only thing "good" about it is that its laughably bad.
As for the women who thought this episode was romantic, I can tell you exactly who they were - the same ones who think Twilight is romantic. I don't get it, either but some people think guys being scary, forceful and creepy is attractive, so long as the guy is hot. Nah!
And he made nana feel good in exactly the same way heroin does. God, this episode is horrible!
I don’t know why in my mind we had already past this episode. Once it started, I said, “Oh no! Not the ghost sex!”
I've watched this episode exactly once in my entire life, think I'll stick to the comments section 😆
Sounds like it really haunts you
I've never been able to sit through the whole episode without getting distracted at some point. The episode is just a fucking bore.
8:42 another time when had it been O'brien still there he would have known when to leave the transporter room and leave them to it
Sam and Dean Winchester burst into the room and shoot the ghost with shotguns loaded with salt! The End.
The 90s were weird. Harlequin romance novels were very popular. Fabio was everywhere. Ronn Moss was also very popular.
Oh... THIS one. Oy. The episode inspired by grocery store romance novel. Just found you girls the other day and enjoying your reactions (wish I could access all of them.) Long-time Trekker here and TNG is my favorite.
This episode in particular? Ouch. But fun to watch in a "hate to watch" kind of way.
If anyone ever tries to claim Star Trek is hard sci-fi, just point to that time Bev Crusher's zombie granny started zapping folks with force lightning.
Sometimes I point out to people that Star Trek had science advisors, and you can make your best guess whether they ever consulted a science advisor while making the Star Wars trilogy.
One wonders what the science advisors thought of this one 😂😂
Brannon Braga and Jeri Taylor... Get used to those names because you're going to see them crop up again and again as you get into the trashier parts of Voyager
"Dinna light tha' candle, and dinna go to tha' hoose!" James Doohan is rolling in his grave and not only was he cremated, he was Canadian! :P And yes, this is THE stupid one. It is my personal opinion some episodes for the rest of the series aren't ideal, but this is The One With The Sexy Space Ghost. Keith DeCandido rated this one a 3/10 on TOR and I'm shocked it was that high.
Congratulations. You both made it through! 🤣
This must be the single most bizarre episode in television history!!!
The episode we've all been waiting for...
The next episode is much better and is also heartbreaking.
For such a great series it sure has its memorable missteps. The biggest shocker about this being one of them is it is season 7 and not a pre-Borg episode. I guess after 6+ seasons they were running low on fresh ideas. OFf course it is the nature of television that the schedule of a show like this force them to make filler or settle for sub-rosa... err sub-par scripts just to keep the schedule on track.
"I love lamp?"
They scrolled through all the fan fiction on whatever Tripod or Geocities sites existed at the time, and then just randomly picked one to make into an actual episode.
And happened to land on the one which was a pirated Anne Rice novel, according to the urban legends :)
If her grandmother's name is Howard and the entity has been preying on Howard women for centuries, the women of that family either retained their maiden name after marriage (or just had children out of wedlock) or there's some serious incest going on with that family. No wonder Wesley was such an annoying oddity in season 1; he was the product of centuries of inbreeding!
The only way I can rationalize this episode is that Beverly is basically mildly possessed. It wasn't just convincing and seducing her but actually influencing her behavior on an unconscious level. Either way though, it's pretty bad.
The only rationalization is that they're all on the holodeck after a malfunction in the environmental controls put peyote into the air system...
Is it just me or can you almost sense Paula trying to keep a blank face during the intro.
Oh yep she mentioned it later!
I wasn't sure if I was projecting, but yeah to me it was almost palpable haha.
Drugs had to be involved with the writing of this episode. Either the person/people were high when it was written and/or the person who green lit it was high.
It’s the only explanation.
More like it was written with one hand under the desk.
I assumed it was the time crunch and having to produce 26 episodes a year. And it being the seventh year and then wondering WTF? are we going to now.
Ah the infamous Beverly bones a ghost episode. I love when she says I read a detailed erotic passage in my Grandmothers journal, as if the words detailed and erotic are not overshadowed by the word Grandmother
Last time, Beaverly left the Enterprise Palaski came.
Negative reactions are hilarious!
''4.8 out of 10''.... that's generous!!
I think this is widely agreed to be the worst ST:TNG episode ever made, but I'd forgotten just HOW bad until watching you ladies react to it!! 😂😂
Emm....Shades of Gray?
@@meuspeus5483 That's not actually an episode :P
And to the extent that it was, whatever technobabble mystery they used as a framing device for the clipshow was probably better than this. (I admit I haven't watched it in a very long time.)
The Candle Ghost was . . . Nanna's old flame . . .
I love how Kat referenced Picard basically walking in on Beverly pleasuring herself. How does he think that is appropriate? That is beyond awkward.
Well, given that he was apparently intending on walking in on her and some dude together, I think he'd already crossed that particular Rubicon when he opened the door.
"On a very special episode of Gallifrey Gals Get Warped..."
I remember seeing the "Next Time on" promo for this and being like WTF? 😅
Ah yes, the episode inspired by "bodice ripper" novels that were so popular in the early 90's. Is it still a better love story than Twilight? Don't know, don't care.
Jeri Taylor kinda makes this episode over and over again with Jayneway with her victorian holonovel in Voyager.
This episode has the additional... "fun" aspect for Scottish people of being planet shortbread tin.
Scots language word of the day: "Boak".
The accents are just terrible. Yet still not the worst part of the episode.
13:10 "It was based on material by another woman". Not just Any other woman, though!
It's almost like it's not the best of ideas to take an Anne Rice novel about a ghost erotically haunting a witch and turn it into a Star Trek episode
(Yes, Really.)
Yeah, this is more how I remember season 7. Still excited for the finale!
Jeri Taylor is the writer who was obsessed with giving Janeway those weird gothic fantasy novel holodeck programs in early Voyager. I 100% believe her writing DNA is all over the worst elements of this episode. Everything about this episode points to being writen by a really foolish man, but she's the exception.
This episode shows you how times have changed. This type of plot was the basis for a few fantasy romances, in particular "The Ghost and Mrs. Muir" (she was a widow). There was even a 'Ghost and Mrs. Muir' tv show. The closest thing to it now was the "Outlander" show. Your reactions is telling me this idea hasn't been passed on, haha!
"The Ghost and Mrs. Muir" movie was one of my mom's favorites, and on the plus side they didn't try to shoehorn the story into a space sci-fi drama show.
This reaction video was a winner for me. Thanks ladies!
I can't believe you two didn't like this episode!! This is in my top 5!
I loathe this episode. An alien entity gaslights and sexually assaults generations of Beverly's female ancestors, and her takeaway is "he made her happy"? Just ewww.
There are good episodes of Star Trek, there are bad episodes of Star Trek, but there are very few so-bad-its-good episodes of Star Trek. This is one of them imo. Like, if it had been slightly less stupid, the gross elements would overwhelm it, but it's just dumb enough to make them hilarious instead.
Brannon Braga's TNG episodes tend to divide neatly between (usually well-executed) horror and hilarious stupidity. Jeri Taylor, meanwhile, eventually became notorious for repeated doomed efforts to insert Gothic elements into Trek. (Despite doing a lot of very good work at other times, it's her weird Gothic stuff people talked about.) Put them together and you get a weird, hilariously stupid Gothic horror episode.
"Brannon Braga, a man wrote the teleplay..."
**very meaningful look at camera**
"and Jeri Taylor wrote the story based on work by Jeanna F. Gallo, both women"
**move on to next topic**
EVERYONE writes some crap sometimes haha.
@@jerodast What on Earth does that have to do with what I said?
Science shows are not always about science. These characters have to live their lives as well which includes love, passion, etc.
PLEASE watch the movies, starting with the Star Trek: The Slow-Motion Picture (and don't let that one put you off from continuing)!
This reminds me to point out that there is an "Honest Trailers" of TNG!
Welcome to the meme of "Ghost-F*cker Crusher".
Geez, you F-k one ghost and you never live it down.
:22 Love this face by Paula! lol
Kat:" I can't wait until they try to explain it away with science!" The slightly disappointing part is the explanation by Geordi and Data was not shown nor talked about. Iirc,it was an alien parasite?
Yeah, pretty much. It needs a body to merge with to survive for very long. And it's where we get the term "anaphasic lifeform" for aliens that work like ghosts.
(It otherwise just refers to a stage of cell division in biology.)
So many feelings, mixed feelings 🤣😭
Come on, ladies. Who doesn't like a good plasma-gasm?
This one took heavy inspiration from Anne Rice's 'The Witching Hour'
DO NOT watch the recent TV adaptation: it's really bad
Yoooo Paula that's a sick mug. You guys should do X Files next. I feel like Kat would dig X Files.
It was terrible when I watched it as a teenager when it first aired and still terrible when I rewatched it on my star trek rewatch I’ve been doing recently.
I am breathing a sigh of relief that this episode is the One and not another. The other is a favorite of mine connected to the doctor and to avoid spoilers till you two watch it, I will not name it.
From what I've read & heard from all kinds of fans, cast, and crew, if you name a least favorite season 7 episode, it's like 99% it's this one haha. Maybe not least favorite of the show, but definitely this season.
Omg! It’s THIS episode!
Ah yes, the wonders of writing strikes 😂
This episode proves that James Doohan isn't the Trek actor with the worst Scottish accent.