3 Benefits of SIPs Framing vs Traditional Studs
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- Structural Insulated Panels are a framing method where panels are built in a factory with insulation already installed. In this video I'll show you 3 advantages of SIPs over traditional stud construction.
-Matt Risinger - Risinger Homes in Austin, TX
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I'd love to hear your thoughts on SIPs construction vs. the perfect wall system. Other than SIPs seeming to be a lot faster upfront it would seem the cost of the the perfect wall would be lower (minus labor) and the performance would be a lot higher unless you wrapped your SIPs house in a continuous layer of foam also.
Using OSB sounds like a great idea! It's resistance to humidity is legendary, and I am sure these panels will work as well as the floors so commonly built in the 1970'2. Remember that? It was plywood sub-floor then, for a smooth surface under carpeting. This worked so well that it virtually created a new industry: FLOOR REPLACEMENT by the late 1980's. One can only wonder how houses will be re-framed and sheathed in place when the OSB does what OSB does...That should be fun to watch, at least.
OSB wasnt approved as a floor decking until the late 1980's. Plywood is a different product altogether, and there are many types and grades of plywood. I believe you are thinking of partical board, AKA, pressboard. The Type 1 exposure rating of SIPs OSB is very water repelant. When assembled properly, there should be no water getting to the OSB anyway. There are literally tens of thousands of SIPs structures in service today. They've been fairly common since the early 1980's.
Great video as always. Any concerns re utilizing an air barrier over SIP? Could that possibly prevent drying should there joints ever fail to prevent air penetration? Whether inside out in cold climates or outside in in warm southern climates?
Though sip panel construction has many advantages especially for initial construction, one of my main concerns has to do with more long-term problems home owners & contractors might face with a home built with sip panels. How do you repair / replace panels that have been damaged by dry-rot or termites? How easy is it to remodel or alter a home built with SIP panels i.e run additional wiring, or resize/install new doors & window? It just seems like just doing the few simple things I mentioned in my examples above would be much more challenging and limiting, let alone trying to do something more advanced. For this reason I would much prefer a quality stick built home over a sip panel home. I know that now and in the future I can always go to any lumber yard in any city and get materials to do anything I want to do.
SIPs is wood based framing. With R-Control SIPs the EPS foam does not rot, and has Performguard termite resistance built in. As far as running wiring or remodeing, its very similar to a stick built home. You still have to get behind the finished drywall, then its just like it was during new construction. On site modifications are easy. They are many projects where SIPs is used in an addition to a stick built home or even sticks used in an addition to a SIPs home. Simply put, its just wood framing.
Pbs or youtube or netflix long form show in the future?
Realizing this vid is nearly two years old, the question in my mind is what VOCs are off gassed by that foam over time?
John, We provided the SIPs for this project (www.geofaze.com). The panels are made with expanded polystyrene foam (EPS). There is no off gassing from EPS because the bubbles inside the EPS are filled only with air, they can't off gas. Polyurethane foam (spray foam) does off gas a little but we don't use that type of foam.
@@Geofaze ok but one thing you guys need to clarify here.....
Is it pronounced “sips” as in to sip a drink? Or rather saying the letters S, I, and P (‘s) 🤣🤣☺️☺️
Haha I enjoy Matt’s content. But the sips was killing me!
I am curious how hurricane straps/wind straps attached roof to wall. We are considering building with SIP in Florida.
EPS is a great insulator but extremely flammable. That's not a problem when a building is built to code, but after a home has been lived in for a few years and alterations are made eg cutting through the sips for plumbing and wiring, then fire will spread very rapidly.
Shaun, i would hope any holes would be filled with fire mastic after.
I read somewhere about SIP panels in hundreds of homes in Alaska with mold issues. Moisture coming thru the walls and no air in their to dry them out. I believe that was on the roof.
Which waterproofing system do you prefer with SIP homes? Delta Waterproofing or Blue Barrier Liquid Wrap? Or would they both be completely fine with a SIP built home?
I think the future of construction is prefab housing using traditional framing techniques or better yet Advanced framing techniques. This would offer the advantages of having a home built with traditional building materials but have the added benefit of reducing construction time and increased quality of construction.
Would you be able to make a metric version, for the rest of the world? By the way, P U R SIPs are preferred in Britain and many parts of Europe.
What's the cost per sq. ft. for a home made of this?
probably a lot more affordable than stick built house using spray foam insulation
How do these panels effect the electrical work and what about drywalling?
We provide predrilled 1 1/2" wire chases in all of our panels (2 horizontal @ 16" and 48" and vertical chases every 4' OC). Electricians typically can wire a SIP house 20% faster than having to drill through studs each 16". Visit www.geofaze.com to learn more about SIPs.
Matt what is your opinion Polyurethane SIPS vs EPS?
Why do you run your Air/Vapour/Moisture control vertically? Would running the material horizontally and overlapping it similarly to siding (starting at the bottom and moving up) not be a better system?
Thanks Matt!
That's how it is installed, shingled
I have built a house for customer with sip not something I would recommend. Idea behind it that you loose heat through studs in regular home. With sips you still have to add bearings and top plate. If you looking for something that has continues insulation it would be tstuds and it doesn’t cost that much more
Would you recommend using SIPs in an earthquake prone area?
Yes, R-Control SIPs are rated for all siesmic zones , including D, E and F according to ICC ESR-2233 Code Report
who do you order your SIPs from? if you can't say, can you please share with your fans what criteria we as builders should be using to evaluate a SIPs provider/manufacturer? also, what in your opinion should be the target SIPs cost/sqft ratio?
Hi Chris. What part of the country do you build in?
Chris, Matt purchased the SIPs for this house from GeoFaze SIPs (www.geofaze.com). We are the largest provider of CNC precision cut SIPs in Texas.
why not use Magnesium Oxide covered SIPs instead of OSB and worry much less about water , mold and fire?
From my understanding imported MGO quality is spotty (varied formulas). There is a company in Florida that makes quality panels domestically but they cost more than the osb panels. Furthermore, they weigh more. Spackling the interior MGO seam means a visible seam seam is subject to the slightest movement of the exterior panel. Furthermore, termites aren't as common up north.
Metal panels are available cheaper as well but can't handle the shear.
But like I said, this is all here say mostly conveyed by the manufacturers. I'd love to see more data regarding MGO sip builds in the US.
my concern is the foam deterioration . How long will the foam last? will the house fall down in twenty or thirty or fifty years?
It will last 1000 years
Pretty sure that foam will outlast the human race, we humans excel at plastics that don't biodegrade lol
Foam disintegrates over time. After a few years, cycling heat and freezing it crumbles between your fingers. If it’s adding structural support to SIP then that house will not hold up in 20-30 years. Its risky business trusting foam to hold up your walls.
@@kmattar , EPS foam is a lifetime product. Ever heard of Geo Foam? Might want to look it up. EPS foam will not rot or disintergrate, even when burried underground. It is quite commonly used as structural fill. Highways, overpasses, railroads and even the new Amazon headquarters.....all built over EPS foam.
@@kmattar What kind of foam are you talking about? There are many different plastic foam chemical compounds. I've seen dozens of SIP homes built in the Mammoth Lakes and June Lake area over the years, some that are already close to 30 years old, still solid.
DIY SIPs home build.
The First panels of our SIPs house finally go up. czcams.com/video/adQ2nhvmh4w/video.html
In Canada many builders SIP has polyurethane foam for its higher R values (not EPS) which disintegrates over time. Longevity and structural safety beyond 50 years hasn’t been proven.
In 1930 they used plywood, which lasts far longer than that inferior chipboard.
Yup I would use plywood anyday over that GARBAGE. The stuff takes in moisture and swells up and rots. Seen it in many homes.
Chipboard? Do you mean OSB? Chipboard is not the same as Oriented Strand Board. OSB has been just as time tested and structurally proven. It's not good to let any building material sit soaking in water for any extent of time. That's usually what causes problems for OSB. However, if it gets wet from a day or two of rain, it just needs to dry and it's fine. Any wood building material, OSB, plywood, solid beams, that's left in partly submerged in water, through capillary action, will saturate and begin to rot in a couple days. The rot can be stopped and material salvaged, but then any structure built with those materials will be at risk for future mold growth. Like a ticking time bomb of health concerns waiting for the first pipe leak. So in my opinion, if the builder is so careless as to let their material soak like that, I'm fine with it falling apart. It won't end up in our homes. The builder is the one losing money for their own negligence.
Economic Darwinism.
@@jackovoltraids5937 just want to correct one thing. OSB doesn’t jjst need to dry and then it’s ok.
Plywood will shrink back mostly when drying, OSB won’t shrink back nearly as much after drying.
So the wood loses density and therefore holding power on fasteners (roofing/siding nails etc).
While true it’s not good to have any building material get wet, OSB is less resilient than ply for sure.
@@justinstevenson2061 if it gets a little rain on it, it'll be ok. A lot of rain is a different story. An extended soaking underwater is kind of the end of story, For Sure. Before the OSB has had time to absorb the moisture, allowed to fully dry, and it'll be fine.
Sorry, if I at first gave a confusing or in complete explanation. And if you have anything else to share, please do.
I like learning all I can
How is it possible that they installed a panels so thick onto studs?
It's post and beam and not studs.. it's called timber framing
I would like to know How many levels are supported by this type of construction?
However many you design for.
Any wood framing is typically limited to 4 stories. SIPs are no different.
So what's better SIPs or Advanced Framing? I like the quality of these videos but why put this much money into producing a 4 minute video when you could make it 10 minutes and show some of the process? Thanks
George B Well the future doesn't need craftsmanship it needs salesmen. No cashiers you really don't see it planned obsolscence in housing now so we will have only the wealthy and the poor. No more middle there will only be a top and bottom!
SIPs are better. The dimensional lumber in the SIPs are typically 4' OC. This means less thermal bridging and more insulation. The SIPs have an interior OSB surface which if taped forms rigid air barrier. I like doing a SIP with an interior service wall so the SIP can be as untouched as possible to help keep the AB intact.
I was thinking the same thing. It looks more like an ad.
I worry about moisture forming at the sole plate where the warm wall meets the cold foundation.
It depends on what your wall/foundation interface looks like. My walls are 12" thick and my foundation is 8" thick. The concrete wall gets another 4" of continuous insulation interior side. The interface b/t the 4" concrete insulation and the wall is air sealed so no air should really be getting to it. Even if water did get deposit onto the concrete wall, concrete wicks water so it would tend to absorb the water. You still have a sill gasket between the wood and the concrete as well which would prevent the water from wicking upwards into the plate.
not actually SAVING labor cost. you're just changing who is getting paid for labor and how much.
that is semantics.
That’s an interesting point. Considering the future of insulation. If a house has been completely insulated from outside in I wonder if there would be any real need for HVAC technicians other than air purification.
@@RubbinRobbin www.phius.org/home-page
You are saving on energy.
The real gain is that you can do most of the structure in a controlled manufacturing environment instead of having people up extensive scaffolding and in weird corners and angles doing the job on-site.
Quick question sir, how fire resistant are the panels? I've been hearing that some of the wooden I beams are more dangerous and fail faster then 2x4s in fires.
not good for fire...
use MgO SIPs ... fireproof!
czcams.com/video/sgbdgvMo5ew/video.html
Ya I hate those floor joists. Load rating are tested obviously in perfect conditions to be considered a good product for the use.
But now add a damp crawl space etc and a 2x10/2x12 lumber will hold for so much longer (in case problem goes unnoticed by homeowner etc) than these ever will.
Their only as good as their weakest point, which is OSB..... ewwww
Couple 2x4 are not at all strong especially as their faced inward to eachother, when looking at the OSB in the middle failing.....
I would actually use this to build my house if it had internal wooden of metal structure along with the foam.
it does , every 4 feet between panels there are 2x4 or 2x6 depending on the thickness of the panel/wall
We built a SIPS home in 2000. The only studs were in the corners and at window / door openings. When the men were setting the trusses they said" walking on top of the walls was like walking on a sidewalk." The house is easy to heat and cool.It's a nice place to live and raise a family. We are going to build our retirement home and it will be Sips top to bottom. Take care and God Bless.
If it’s air tight how does the house breath? What about black mold? You’re essentially building a bubble. What about condensation and changes in temperature? Doesn’t make sense to me
You have to install air exchanger systems to keep the air fresh. Matt has a video about ERV vs HRV systems. They have this stuff figured out.
@@adamelcewicz8486 Sounds like extra costs/worries to keep your house from getting moldy. I’d say that’s a major downside to this style of construction. Can’t the house be Typar’d so there’s some air flow to dry the inside out?
I'm wondering how much the OSB and foam offgas over time, especially considering how tight these construction methods are.
Doxie, We provided the SIPs for this project (www.geofaze.com). The panels are made with expanded polystyrene foam (EPS). There is no off gassing from EPS because the bubbles inside the EPS are filled only with air, they can't off gas. Polyurethane foam (spray foam) does off gas a little but we don't use that type of foam.
@@Geofaze malarkey, everything offgases. Depends on what is offgassing though that makes it harmful or harmless.
You didn't tell us how many flavors it comes in.
Are you going to seal all the interior joins to prevent vapor migration into the sips panels? I've heard that's is a common failure point in SIPS buildings.
With SIP, air penetration is the enemy that moisture rot problems. Vapor migration is minimal, but should there ever be a failure of the joint, moisture will be a problem unless the panels are allowed to dry.
59, I watched a house put together with these and before the panels were put together, they used a spray foam and a 4x6? sandwiched and screwed between the panels. The foam was oozing out everywhere so it looked pretty darn air, water tight. Also I think you can get the exterior of your panels with some type of serious black sealing paint.
so the house is made out of glue?
watch the video @ 1:15
That and wood chips. How long do you thing it will be before that OSB starts swelling?
Its a type 1 exposure rated OSB, not the typical OSB you find everywhere in your stick built house, like, your floors, your roof and your exterior walls which all have OSB with traditional framing. You just have a much higher chance of moisture actually getting to the OSB in a stick built house, due to the massive air flow issues in a stick built house.
MGO SIPs
Framers might be happy and saving time, but wait till the electrician and plumbers show up on site...... iv wired one, it's not fun.
Alot of experienced eletricians will say its fasteer to wire SIPs, not drilling holes every 16 inches. It can be a difficult learning curve at first. As far as plumbers, they usually dont put plumbing in an outside wall.When totally necessary, they will need to build a chase inside of the SIP wall.
“SIPs Panels” structural insulated panels panels?
very toxic if a fire breaks out in the house what is the fire rating on sip i guess nil
czcams.com/video/sgbdgvMo5ew/video.html
SIPs go through the same fire rating testing as stick building and meet all US building codes.
Maybe same fire rating, but is the toxic smoke any worse?
are they structural insulated panels panels? you keep saying SIPs panels.
Doesn't sound environmentally friendly.
Foam disintegrates over time. After a few years, cycling heat and freezing it crumbles between your fingers. If it’s adding structural support to SIP then that house will not hold up in 20-30 years. Its risky business trusting foam to hold up your walls.
You do know the p stands for panel? So you are saying structural insulated panel panels! 😂
RIP in peace.
Why on earth has this house design got a massive timber frame inside the SIPs? It's a complete waste of time and money (baring the aesthetic appeal)...!
I wish there was more building instead of so much advertisement in your channel would like to watch you guys actually building something it seems like that primarily your channel is built all-around a sales pitch or advertisement I think I might watch a few more times but if it doesn't change I will probably unsubscribe because it's just not what I was looking for.
+Able Lock He has quite a few videos showing building in progress: slab-pours, wall-insulating, window installs, how to weather-seal, how to maintain a tankless water-heater, how to soundproof, and on and on. He mentions brands primarily because it is helpful for us to know who provides the best product or service, so that we can emulate his best-practice building closely as possible. And far as sponsor name-dropping goes... Much labor goes into making a high-quality CZcams video in the first place, costing time and money. And after a certain point, sponsorship can be crucial to maintaining and improving the quality and quantity of production. And that just covers CZcams production! Never mind that he concurrently runs a custom home-building firm. Seriously, check out his CZcams catalogue: you may be surprised just how much hands-on and how-to material you'll find.
+Able Lock More action shots of the building would be awesome. I don't mind the advertising as its mainly product awareness opposed to brand awareness.
50% cheaper assuming you can find cheap mexican labor.
Give me a conventionally framed home anytime over styrofoam and wood chips all held together with glue
If SIPs means Structural Insulated Panels, why do you call them SIPs panels? You don't need to say panels, it's redundant.
wow look at all that chipboard junk. would take plywood over that glued junk any day
you say that, until you research that the OSB "Oriented Strand Board" not chipboard seen in this video is 3X stronger than the same thickness plywood, more environmentally friendly and much less cost.
Pura Vida might be stronger but id rather have sheets of wood hold up my house then wood chips and glue boo boo
Not often one has the pleasure to witness someone contradict themselves in their own sentence.
Ben Coffee fuck you
I don't think that dumb ass realizes that plywood is glued chunks of wood also, lol
This is self-advertising and absoluyely not informative video. No building details, no construction details, nothing.
So let's remove the trades from the housing industry in favor of prefabed products. Quality will be suspect! No cashiers no framers guess home depot and Lowes will be all on line shopping soon enough?🤔🤔🤔 SMFH
OMG. Stop with this "looking off camera" bullsh*t! Why are people doing this? It is distracting, disruptive and counterproductive to the narrative! Just because some idiot DP thinks it's "trendy" does not mean it's a good idea! It's frustrating as hell and turns me (and a lot of your viewers) immediately off... Just stop it! Seriously!
I think the future of construction is prefab housing using traditional framing techniques or better yet Advanced framing techniques. This would offer the advantages of having a home built with traditional building materials but have the added benefit of reducing construction time and increased quality of construction.
The main cost of building is the labor of skilled technicians having to do everything on-site in an environment you hardly control and have to invest heavily in with scaffolding, safety, etc to adapt. It's like how every wardrobe and other product used to be hand made by tradesmen building is really one of the only industries where this hasn't changed towards automatisation, big scale plants with assembly lines. With SIPS and modules construction this can change and help make housing more affordable as well as more qualitative and consistent, standardized.