Low Recoil Need? .22 Mag or .38 Special? Hornady Critical Defense Ballistic Test
Vložit
- čas přidán 3. 07. 2023
- Testing some .22 WMR and .38 Special in my 3" revolvers. The .22 WMR is a 45 gr FTX rated at 1,000 FPS from a 1.875" barrel and the .38 Special is a 90 gr FTX rated at 1,200 FPS from a 4" barrel. I do a 10% Clear Ballistics test. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.com/user?u=5828221
Music - Sport
Got a few guitar comments. I used to be into it big time and have from time to time uploaded stuff. I don't remember why I recorded this, but I think it was to my Patreon members that asked if I did my own music for the channel. czcams.com/video/wgYW67wRXHo/video.html
Well, I'm neither a Navy SEAL or a firearms instructor, but I am an elderly musician with dysfunctional fingers who has switched to playing guitar with a bottleneck slide!
Don't take the naysayers too seriously, Sam. Besides being one of the few CZcamsrs who actually evaluate revolvers and ammo, you are probably a better shot than most of these "experts," even with your RA! Your content is top-notch.
Correct. He's a great substitute for when Paul Harrell is not on. I hope Mr. Harrell over comes his cancer.
Thank you so much Sam. Always been a fan of 22mag. At 60 years of age, just diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. Currently carry 38 special, just can't handle the recoil of the +p anymore. Videos like this give me real world facts about my options.
Thanks Sam - this one has a lot of real world applicability. Many people have disabilities like rheumatoid arthritis. My wife suffers from that disease and has a hard time with trigger pull and recoil.
Thanks for watching. I am hopeful as being pretty young along with new medications that the disease can be controlled better. Been taking one of the new JAK inhibitor medications, been a few weeks and I am hopeful it will have some positive results.
@@GunSam Good luck.
@@GunSamGood luck, Sam
@@GunSamcheck out Mikaela Peterson on the tube, she had severe juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis. So bad that she had to have a hip and an ankle replacement by age 17. Through trial and error she figured out that if she only eats red meat, water and salt her RA symptoms go into complete remission. She calls it the "lion diet" which is a more strict version of the carnivore diet. I don't have RA but I have been doing carnivore for 16 months and corrected a bunch of health problems including osteoarthritis. I'm 50 and it feels like I have a new set of knees now. I highly recommend trying it if you haven't done so already. Dr. Ken Berry and Dr. Anthony Chaffee are great resources too. They have both had tons of patients improve RA dramatically with just dietary changes. Some patients have put their symptoms into complete remission.
I think another choice that could be thrown into this test would be a Ruger LCR/x chambered for .327 Fed, but using something like a Magtech .32 S&W Long SJHP. The trigger pull would be lighter than the rimfire trigger and the penetration potential at a bit longer distance probably higher than .22.
I know what you mean. You're not the only one who has those issues. Nice to know what the options are out there.
Thank you for the presentation and covering the subject.
Thanks for watching
For a snub it's 38spl, 357mag, and 327mag for me and in that order. With 135gr Gold Dot +Ps, light 357, and HST in 327. Someone very close to me recently discovered that he could no longer operate a revolver in DA. Thankfully he owns a fine 1911 and a Glock. This is one more reason practice is so important. It'll shine the light on any problems before they become a matter of life and death. Getting older can suck. Wishing you well with that RA.
Thanks. Yeah that lighter .327 Hydrashok has always been a good go to for me. I prefer the 125_P Gold Dot in .38 Special.
Try the Buffalo Bore 125gr .357 Magnum. That performs amazingly well, even out of a snubnose.
It's amazing how many former Navy Seals there are on the Inter Webs.
Many. Frankly i'm surprised they have the time to watch youtube while saving the world. I bet they are watching on the long chopper ride like Arnold and Jesse Ventura like in the beginning of Predator.
Morale of the story,have an eight or nine shot 22WM,in a light carry piece RUGER!
The .22 mag. loading won this contest. The .38 cowboy loads or 148 grain SWC target loads might be worth a try as a low recoil option if a .22 mag revolver is not available. Thanks for another great video.
These 38 lite are my second load. I usually stick with good old 158gr lrn or 148gr wadcutters
I enjoy your vids, one thing I noticed in the last few months is that you are addressing the Internet critics, and I sat the heck with them. I've been a firearms instructor since 1996, and one thing I learned is that everyone is different. What works for me may not be for you.
Clearly, you can hit the target, so I suggest you stop explaining yourself and ignore the Monday quarterback.
And keep up the good work.
Thanks, but I often enjoy addressing some of what I hear. I find it better to address it than to ignore it, just makes me feel more satisfied. You suggest that I stop explaining, but your suggestion is just not what I want. I want to explain things because the same comment is so incredibly often that obviously it needs some explaining.
Several years ago I was diagnosed with stress fractures in my hands. Lesson learned is be it a smaller caliber gun or softer recoiling ammo keep something in your safe
Always enjoy your comparison!
The .22 Magnum did amazingly well out of that relatively short barrel. It's a highly underrated round. You should do some testing with the Walther WMP. It has a longer barrel, so performance should be even better.
Your comparisons are the best.
Thanks for the info!
Thank you, thanks for watching.
The 38 Spl 148gr Target Wadcutter load might actually do better than that 38 Lite, and still have modest recoil.
We used that as a range load for the annual qualifications. 148 gr. SWC at 650 fps from a 4" S&W Model 10. It was a low recoil, low blast load, pleasant to shoot and easy to qualify with.
@@AK-ky3ou On Sams test it made 20 inches.
Much appreciate your thorough explanation of ballistics…you are unequivocally a stats & facts man which lends itself to real-deal credibility in your video clips. Thx❗️
Thanks for testing. Hope you have a happy 4th!
Thank you
Great video. I always appreciate your info.
Sam, you're the man! I love your videos and am grateful for the work you do to put out such great content. I would love it if your health improved and stayed good and you could keep shooting!
Listen. I have had debilitating rheumatoid arthritis type symptoms, partial paralysis, neuropathy, and other inflammatory autoimmune issues for 8+ years. The ONLY thing that has had any results in eliminating symptoms has been diet. I'm symptom-free and actually able to grow stronger instead of just learning to manage pain and discomfort a little better as it gets worse over the years. There are lots of ways to do it, I personally do best with the carnivore diet but you can achieve the same results even with vegetarian diet modification.
Do your own research, just take a look at metabolic therapy. Simply put, it's diet modification, maybe some partial fasting, and maybe some supplements depending on your personal situation and health goals. Dr. Peter Attia and Dr. Ken Berry are good starting points. Good luck and thanks again.
Thanks. I did Atkins for years, and while it tamed the ulcerative colitis I had a bit, I started feeling sick all the time. I have tried to do it again and I just start feeling sick so I have to go more balanced on diet now days.
Always good information.
Regards from Washifornia.
surprising results, thanks
I am really enjoying your clear ballistic test because I live in Puerto Rico 🇵🇷 USA 🇺🇸 and almost all year long, all people wear is very light clothing and this helps me decide which caliber to carry so that I don't get over penetration and hurt someone other than the criminal. Great video as always Thanks 🙏
Thanks. Are gun laws there the same as mainland?
Puerto Rico acknowledges the CCW licenses of the mainland. No open allowed and your Handgun must be well.concealed or it's an expensive ticket or fine
@@GunSam it is a shall-issue state you apply for a cost of 200.00 dollars for 5 yrs and renewal is 100.00 your license is an automatic ccw lic. the only bad thing is that all guns are registered with the chief of Police and you may only buy ammo for the weapons that are registered in your name. Sadly Puerto Rico does not have reciprocity with any of the 50 states so if you don't inform at arrival, yes you will get fined and imprisoned.
@@jimmyj5035 not true, if you bring any weapons to Puerto Rico upon arrival at the airport you have to direct yourself to the police station at the airport and turn in your weapons until you start the process for weapons lic for Puerto Rico if you are planning to stay. if you are just going to attend a shooting event then you must contact the police commissioner's office in advance to get a special permit.
I wouldn't worry about overpenetration, as the human body is a lot more dense than ballistics gel, and it contains bone, muscle, cartilage, etc. You are much more likely to get into trouble by missing your intended target than overpenetrating. Just make sure you can shoot accurately and whatever round you choose can stop a threat immediately, without requiring follow-up shots.
Good video I appreciate the way you explain things
I learned something new. I think that is the first time I’ve heard anyone explain that ballistic gel, and such are 2:1 On penetration.
Good information. Thanks for the video
GS. Always a good interesting and informative video. Nice shooting. And thanks for sharing. Also, happy Independence Day!
Thank you, happy 4th
so I'm a former firearms instructor and navy seal.and upon closer inspection I agree that you're not really a spring chicken.but seriously,22 mag at self defense distance is still pretty spicy.i see the tests but I really really would not want to be on the receiving end of one.even the naa minis can be useful.
... plus, my .22 WMR Breathes Fire! Lots of Noise and Flash! Unless the attacker was a former firearms instructor or a navy seal, the intimidation factor of the WMR out of a snubbie barrel is not to be ignored.
The Walther WMP shows real promise. Better ballistics from a longer barrel and 15 rounds per magazine are no joke.
Look into the new Smith n Wesson 22 mag auto. It holds 30 I believe in the mag. About the same size as the WMP
Calling Don Shilpley, Calling Don Shipley………
@@jaredbaratono897😂😂
.22 magnum is a popper! At conversation distance works very well. Mass and velocity, Sam!
Moringa is great for arthritis. My aunt has it very bad in her hands, but taking a few Moringa pills every day makes her hands work like normal again. Big family homestead on youtube has a bunch of videos on it.
Interesting comparison. I’m a lot older than you so when I think of low recoil I go old school. In other words another vote for 148 gr wadcutters. Which back in the 70s/80s 20:47 were everywhere now they are harder to find In factory loads. I’ve never shot the 90 grain 38 special but no 38 I’ve shot is even close to the recoil if my Smith 351pd. Keep up the good content.
What I do like about wadcutters is they are cheap and hard to mess up. Like, even no experience a person could easily handload them with nothing more than the scooping powder measures and just seat them flush. The Hornady 250 count was like 25 bucks the last I bought them.
Thanks Sam. It looks like the .327 was made just for you. Hopefully that RA won't progress at a rapid rate. Happy Independence Day to you and yours.
Good video. Some people seem to think you need a 45 Win mag all the time. Thanks to the Army and a couple deployments I have pinched nerves in my neck that cause numbness in my right hand and arm, or sharp pain depending on the day. It got to the point that some guns I had I could not safely. For instance I fired a round over the backstop with my LCR 38 and I could not pull the trigger on my LC9. The Sig 365 became my new carry gun and for a while now I kind of feel like I am learning to shoot handguns again. A good option for me was also the 327 Federal. I like to carry it while I am hunting or fishing and load my own snake shot for it. But I also have the option of 32 mag or 32 long for self defense while camping.
Great review! Thanks! 👍👍💥😊
Beretta storm full size 9 mm. Rotating barrel. Smooth.and light.😊
Filmed 6-27-2023
Great info. Thanks for continuing revolver reviews especially snub nose.
Thank you for consistent testing methods.
GS
Another great video
Informative and applicable
I too have physical limitations and the Snubby provides an excellent self defense tool
I utilize S&B 148 gr WC AND H 38 90gr for my EDC
Please keep up the great revolver work-!!!
When the Critical Duty was factory tested,, it likely might have met all their performance criteria. On the other hand, there are retired LE and military types involved in firearms training who have also tested all of the popular and/or latest and greatest .38 Special self defense ammo and found that none of them seem to perform well in testing, either not expanding, under penetrating, or over penetrating gel. That’s why the 148 grain wadcutter is back to getting attention as they seem to at least penetrate deeper and more consistently. And I have no idea how many of those loads are rated in official FBI ballistics tests. Street performance with the Speer Gold Dot 135s for shorter barrels seems to be decent based on real world reports. I haven’t been able to find any, however, during my casual shopping at my local outfitters. Another issue that many folks don’t realize is that small revolvers and +p rounds aren’t as accurate, especially with bullet weights lighter than 148 grain. Lighter bullets from two inch barrels tend to not shoot to sights the further back from the target so accuracy also becomes an issue. The only experience I have with short barreled .22 handguns has been with Beretta 21A Bobcats and four inch S&W revolvers. The little Berettas tend to perform POA/POI with just about any .22 LR round than I’ve experienced with short barreled .38 revolvers and lighter, higher pressure .38 Special loads. Too much or too little penetration or expansion becomes a moot point when one cannot hit anywhere inside a scoring ring. My long term plans due to my own share of hand and wrist injuries and a touch of arthritis include .22 LR pistols and revolvers.
Great video as always. You are by far my favorite evaluator of handguns and ammunition and don't understand why you don't have more subscribers! I'm sorry about your arthritis and very sorry about having it effect your guitar playing. As music teacher, guitar is my first love, -my revolvers down the list a bit. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on the Chiappa Rhino and it's lower bore axis. I recently purchased the 3" model and found the recoil on standard pressure .38s, including the 110g Hornady CD rounds to be really comfy - a dream to shoot. Also, I noticed Magtech has .38 wadcutters, semi jacketed hollow points, and soft points (standard pressure) readily available at the moment. I'd love to see rounds like that tested that you can buy fairly cheaply in bulk and still use as a home defense option.
I have not tested the Rhino but know a lot about them. Personally I am not too convinced that the small bore axis shift really helps with recoil all that much, but now you have a cylinder gap that is more dangerous. My main concern over the Rhino's is that their single action hammer cocking is false, where the actual hammer spur isn't striking the firing pin. I don't have all the details on how that works, but thumb cocking and not taking a shot and lowering the hammer spur slowly seems like it would be questionable. I like the old school design where everything is connected and I know where the cylinder gap is and all of that. Not to say it's a bad revolvers, it's just not for me.
@@GunSam You know your stuff, have done good research into the Rhino, and are not wrong about the hammer. Also, I haven't read anything about this from others, but the single action pull on my Rhino is like glass, lightest of any revolver I've owned, which also makes me wary about de-cocking it from ready to fire. However, I will say that I've practiced that with snapcaps and, understanding the squirrelyness pulling back on something attached to the hammer instead of it being the beast itself, it doesn't feel much different or any less safe. Things (thumbs) can slip and any single action activity needs to be done with the revolver pointed in a safe direction regardless. As far as the Perceived recoil.., that's somewhat subjective. The rhino is about .5 ounces heavier than my all steel Taurus 856, but in my experience the Rhino behaves more like a semi-auto in that I'm much faster back on target and I can only assume that is the bore axis thing. It may confirm all your opinions, but I still think you should shoot one. Bill Hickok did as you are probably aware, but I'd have more fun hearing your take on it! :)
*Hickok45 I mean. PS) I'm probably in the minority in that I think they look cool and modern as well.. Also, I only think you should try one if you get a chance to borrow one of course. -Way too pricey otherwise!
I liked the momentum discussion. Shooting a rifle dueling tree with 17 HMR out of a rifle won't swing the plate to the other side, 9mm pistol will. Both have similar energy but the momentum is much different.
You do good videos, and I enjoy them. Arthritis sucks and I understand.
Thank you
Very informative video Sam, those .38 CD are a big let down, one of the poorest performing self defense’ loads I’ve ever seen. Thanks to your testing I’d use standard pressure 158gr LRN long before those and wouldn’t feel undergunned. They have excellent penetration and can generally be counted on to tumble, especially in a snubbie. My arthritis already has me downgrading from the big magnums, I’m maxed out at .357 & .38+P now. When I can’t deal with those anymore I’ll forego all the rimfires and use my .32 S&W Long. It’s done well in your testing and recoil is like a .22 but with better reliability and more punch.
Keep up the hard work on these outstanding videos and good luck with the RA. 👍
.327 FEDERAL MAG/.32 H&R MAG make for a good balance: more power than .22 Mag/.32 ACP, less recoil than .38 Special in the same size revolver.
My EDC is my .327 Federal LCR (1.875") currently with the new Federal HST .327 Federal, but at other times I carried the Double-Tap 75 gr copper HP's, Federal Hydrashok 85 gr or Buffalo Bore 100 gr XTP in either the .327 Federal or .32 H&R Mag+P ammo.
Federal Punch 22 WMR and 148 hard cast DEWC at 900 fps are the way to go with those cartridges in a short revolver.
I haven't been about to find Punch .22 WMR for a year now. Never in stock anywhere.
@@GunSam Same here. I bought 5 boxes, still have 4 that I'm hoarding.
Honestly with these results I wouldn’t carry either of these loads. I’d rather have a 158 gr LRN. At least that one would penetrate and hit with a little more punch. Also you seem to be very accurate and these didn’t shoot for you well either on the target for the chronograph. Left and low for the 38 and low for the 22mag.
You're doing fine sam
I carry Hornady Critical Defense standard loading in .38 spl, .357 magnum and 9mm and when I can afford to get it .45 ACP. I decided to carry that after seeing an extended test Paul Harrell did several years ago on his meat target. He tested several different hollow point rounds in caliber from .380 up and in barrel lengths from two inches on out. The only round in that test that both never over penetrated and always opened up was Hornady Critical Defense.
Try the Buffalo Bore 125gr .357 Magnum and 124gr 9mm +P+. They blow Critical Defense out of the water completely. It's not even close. Underwood has some amazing Xtreme Defender/Penetrator rounds as well.
@@joshklaver47 I choose not to use such over powered rounds for two reasons. I am almost 59 and my hands can no longer handle the recoil of such rounds. Plus I don't care if the firearm says it is rated for such rounds they still will put stress on the parts and shorten the life of the firearm.
@@keithplymale2374 I don't recommend shooting large quantities of full power ammo, but if you can handle the recoil, it has significant advantages.
Have seen enough actual shootings with .22lr and .22mag shot placement. They work ! For recoil conscious people practice and stay safe and not an unarmed victim!
I mean, they can work...but if given enough statistical data one would find that they won't stop a methhead as fast as a .45 auto.
@@GunSamif a normal civilian hangs out near meth-heads that civilian is living an abnormal life.
.38 because it’s special
Paul Harrell also had very disappointing results with the Hornady CD lite. It's basically like a 380ACP that expands well so it can't penetrate. The test you did with the Hornady 110gr CD 38Spl+P vs Remington 110gr SJWC 38Spl+P showed that a fairly low recoil ammunition from a 2" 38Spl can work. I was impressed by the .22 WMR. At least the bare gel shot. I don't think I would carry it though.
As hand loaders, we can adjust the power on 158gr LSWC projectiles for recoil and, by their non-expanding nature, they can still get good penetration. Last I looked, these bullets were easy to get with that nice Hi-Tec coating to avoid leading the barrel. And loading light, say 750-800fps doesn't require gas checks. I wonder if there is a load that you can work out that would be satisfactory in terms of recoil and still penetrate. If so, is there a commercial load that is in that ball park?
You can also get 148gr plated wadcutters in 38Spl from the likes of Precision One. They are target loads. But they have the advantage of being factory loads for people who do not hand load. I know people will be suggesting full wadcutters. And other people say don't use hand loads for self defense. Factory loaded wad cutters are the answer to that.
Excelsior! ❤
All the years I blasted and painted in the shipyards has given me cp tunnel syndrome. And my wife has RA I understand where you’re coming from. I can still shoot 38+p 357 9mm pretty good I just can’t feel how much pressure I’m grabbing with my left hand. Good shooting sir.
Thanks. I even have pressure issues myself with RA. Like I drop stuff a lot, have to mentally tell myself to squeeze something, or I might think i'm gripping fine and then boom, there goes my coffee cup on the floor.
@@GunSam yes sir my wife drops stuff to she has essential tremors. I don’t have it
Age 86-s&w 642 with .38 spcl 148 grain wad cutter very low recoil-my Ruger .22wmr Lcrx snubby,no felt recoil.
I'm glad you go over low recoil options. My mom just got a s&w bodyguard 380 and the recoil in that tiny gun is prohibtory for her with any reasonable follow-up shots !!! I'm thinking of telling her to get either a 22lr or 22mag revolver!!!
If it should be a revolver rather take a .32 caliber.
Traditional but still good advice: Go to the range and rent the gun you think you want to buy. As Sam noted, trigger pull on a .22 revolver is going to be heavier than a center fire. That might be more of a problem than the recoil.
If I had to simplify all the noise in the firearms world about defense and low recoil needs, I would say this - "Steel .357/.38 snubby, 148 gr .38 wadcutters, done." This choice covers nearly everything when it comes to shootability and terminal ballistics for most people in most situations.
@@GunSam Agree, add: 3" Barrel on your snubbie to maximize .38 Special performance. Ruger SP101 or S&W Model 60, 3"
If she can handle a larger pistol, the Walther WMP might be an option.
I'd take .32 S&W long over .22 mag
You find that at your local gun shops much?
Good video with unexpected results. My favored low recoil load is a 158swc with around 3.5grain of tite group
That's one of the first loads I ever hand loaded about 9 years ago, I think the same charge. They do tend to get pretty leady and smoky if pushed much more with Titegroup. That powder Titegroup is a very efficient lead base burner. My favorite load with that powder is a .38+P, 125 gr XTP with 5.0 gr. It shoots as fast as any factory load around 950 in a 2" snub, but shoots super clean and accurate.
@@GunSam I got some 125’s I was going to try in a 357 but i may have to load some 38+p as well with that kind of advertisemtnt
I have loaded both .38 Special and .357 Mag with the 125 XTP with Titegroup. The .38 Special+P is where it shines, but the .357 Mag loaded with 7.5 gr gave me something like 1,350 FPS in a 4" barrel, which isn't anything to brag about, but it shot clean and overall is about as powerful as typical cheap .357 Mag ammo like Remington HTP and the like.
@@GunSam thanks
Tks man
Honestly, I think I'd choose .38 wadcutters over both those rounds. Then again, I'm older and come from that school.
And that is a great choice too. I have told people basically, CCW=steel 2" snub/.38 WC and done. Not many people couldn't shoot one fine and not many bad guys would stay standing if shot with that. Really is a perfect option.
@@GunSam a lot of Chicago cops carried WCs in their Chief's Specials back in the non-expanding bullet days.
The problem with that Hornady load is a light load propelling a light bullet that may expand. It doesn't have much energy from the get-go and any expansion acts like a brake. Bullets are better nowadays but, to an extent, the old rule still applies, light and fast or heavy and slow.
Interesting. Neither one impressed me. Maybe I’m old school, but that .38 was just TOO light. For .38 I’d lean toward the old FBI load, the 158 lead SWCHP +P, and if I wanted low recoil I’d look for some target wadcutters. That .22 mag didn’t sell me over the .32 in my 1907 Savage (😉actually I carry a .45, the Savage lives in the safe). My wife has two J-frames, and none of her ammo is under 125 grain, most of it heavier.
One consideration is that in most revolvers you get greater capacity in a 22 magnum revolver.
Perhaps. I generally see them as 6 or 7 shot in the same size as a .38 Special 5 or 6 shot, usually one more round capacity. Not sure if that's enough extra to matter.
S333 Thunderstruck Gen II
@@The9toes uh...no
@@ftdefiance1 you said capacity!
@@The9toes firing two rounds per trigger pull you get the equivalent of four shots not eight. This ignores their horrible reputation for accuracy.
I’ve been a fan of the NAA Black Widow 22 mag with its 2” barrel, fat grips and very usable sights weighing in at 9.6 ounces. This is the gun you’re legit going to have on your person 24/7. So you practice until those reloads that are so challenging in the beginning are automatic and at across the room distances you can hit whatever you’re aiming at. For what it was designed for, a get off me gun for use at point blank range. Every foot of separation works against you so if it’s happening you don’t let them see it coming and in that last instant where they believe you’re toast …
I have seen many tests with the critical defense lite .38 .. hasn't been impressive in both expansion and penetration the way regular critical defense and critical defense p plus 38 has achieved..I personally found that Federal HST plus p.38 130 grain RECOILS LESS than critical defense light in my 11 oz 342 Smith centennial..!!! Federal HST achieves plus p velocities by seating it's humongous hollow point deep in the case.. with the mouth of the bullet level with the case like a wad cutter.. this achieves plus p velocities without adding more powder.. I go with Federal HST 38 100% of the time for self-defense in my 342 air light ti titanium cylinder 11 oz 38 special centennial
I have similar physical limitations. Life is about trade offs. I can carry more than 22 wmr but follow up shots are really fast with 22lr and 22 wmr.
A well loaded .32 Long hollow point or medium loaded .38 wadcutter seem to be where it's often at for most punch for the recoil.
This acoustic player feels your pain brother! I should shoot that well, Best YT videos. Thanks Sam
it’s summertime and shorts and T shirts are stander dress for me, carrying one of my bigger side arms are not very concealable, I very often carry a small 22 mag with defense rounds. I don’t love carrying small but better than a pointed stick and or nothing.. I do have micro 9 mm and micro 380’s but sometimes they just show to much also.. I would gladly carry my colt python or my 1911 but I think there could be issues walking around the grocery store with those hanging out from under my t shirt.. So thanks for showing I’m not crazy for using my 22 mag.. I am a retired old guy so I’m not as tough as I once was.. lol
Here in Michigan we have no obligation to conceal. I generally pocket my guns with a big bulge.
If you can handle the recoil, an LCR in .357 would be good for that. Some Buffalo Bore 125gr will blow your socks off.
Hey Sam for your rheumatism try DMSO (Dimethyl sulfoxide) this can help at least with pain. And I have heard of someone who even healed his rheumatism with CDS ( Chlorine Dioxide Solution)
38 special full wadcutters seem to do better when you want low recoil.
Yes
I had to explain the same thing about my injury I had making my left arm very weak it's there for a little added support but I have to readjust my grip constantly with my left hand. So I can't hold the same grip with a double thumb on the side of a semi auto.
I have both caliber pistols. They both will stop a bad critter, human or animal. Shot placement is key! I use 40gr lead round nose in my .38 Special and Hornady Magnums in my .22mag Sidekick.
I think the HBWC or cast cowboy loads would be a much better option in 38.
The 22 WMR also has the advantage of availability of 8-9 shot revolvers. Even though 22 mag costs more than 22LR it is still a bargain compared to most centerfire ammo.
In any test of 22mag, you always hear its the choice of the recoil sensitive. I’m not saying that’s false. However when it comes to carry, people I know that carry 22mag, recoil has nothing to do with it. It’s all about getting weight down to a minimum. Maybe that’s just a Florida thing where everyone is wearing shorts and tshirts year around.. I’d like to see a comparison of sub 12oz guns and how they perform ballistically and accuracy wise.
The LCR in .357 is also good for those applications. Just chuck it in a fanny pack holster with some speed strips.
The 22WRM is a more potent round than most people think. Just bear in mind that with very short barrels it can tumble and you lose velocity and therefore downrange energy. I suggest about 2 inches as a sensible minimum.
With that in mind there are still a large range of weapons available and I rate it highly for CCW.
If only there was a 2 inch version of the Thunderstruck.
I hear your pain. I played guitar since 15 years old. I have played in churches, local bands, and for decades I did coffee shops and a few bars, solo. A pinched nerve in my old neck has created a numbness and pain in two fingers of my left hand. I can still play, but only for a few minutes. Sucks. My advice, don't get old.
The results on the 38 spcl do not surprise me. There is very little sectional density in that light round. For me, 125 grain is minimum for a 35 caliber handgun round.
Thats about when I started. I have never really done it in bands, but I can definitely play quite well. It was either guitars or guns when I started my youtube channel 16 years ago, I settled on guns as more people seem to like them and there are a lot of better guitar players everywhere. Not everyone has unique land like I do.
There are some amazing strech exercises for fingers on youtube .
Same thing for me. I have rheumatoid arthritis, and had to give up the guitar after playing for 50 years. (Fortunately I can still play the keyboard.) A heavy trigger pull is now painful. And my hands are increasingly sensitive to recoil.
How did the recoil on the 38s compare to the wadcutters you tested a few months back?
At this power level you have to choose between good expansion and enough penetration, you cannot have both. I would rather use the wadcutters for better penetration.
Now that you have a 380 EZ it would be interesting to see a comparison between the 380 EZ and a 38 Special revolver with light loads. More about how easy it would be for someone with hand strength issues to load, operate and shoot the two than ballistic performance. Lots of people have hand strength issues. Sorry to hear you are in that group.
Wadcutters recoil about the same, just less blast and more muzzle jump but the recoil energy is similar.
Sam if you have time for some advice it would be greatly appreciated as I consider you to be the revolver guru. My question is when shooting my S&W 642 if I line up the top of the blade front sight with the top of the channel rear sight I shoot low. It appears that the front sight is to tall. Am I doing something wrong as that is the technique I've always used when shooting a rifle. Also my J Frame is quite snappy and have been considering using standard velocity self defence loads as I've gotten older. Thanks and i always enjoy your video's, very informational and always well presented.
Basically all S&W J-Frames are this way. I had one that was basically the same as well, grouping probably 4" low at 7 yards. Nothing wrong with your technique rather it's just how they are. They are more or less regulated to shoot 158 gr ammo as in a revolver like that, the muzzle starts to rise before the bullet leaves the muzzle so they have them low so that your 158 gr bullets hit correctly. If you try lets say 90 or 110 gr bullets you will hit low, but 135 and 158 gr will hit more point of aim. The only real solution is to shoot heavier ammo or files down the front sight. While I gave my J-Frame to my girlfriend so I don't shoot it anymore, basically all I did was compensate automatically. Like I would purposely aim high for hitting where I wanted to.
@@GunSam thank you for the input Sam. I didn't know about the heavy ammo and the muzzle rising aspect, I learned something today!
I like the idea of the lower recoil, even at the expense of 2-3" of penetration. (I like the idea of not over penetrating the target and hitting something beyond the target that you did not want a hole in.)
Perhaps a good loading would be 3 rounds of the Hornady Lite ammo, followed by 2 shots of Hydra-shock?
82nd airborne here, not a seal or a shooting instructtor... shoot however you can shoot proper bro, people are gonna hate. I watched a guy with no hands shooting yesterday, and he killed it despite having an "improper" grip due to medical necessity. Anyone who watches regularly knows that you're a shooter 🤙
I have a S&W 351PD 22 MAG and I like it because of the less recoil
All I know is I hate 357 out of my snubby. I bet I’d be more accurate with 8rds of 22mag vs 5 rds of 38/357 out of my sp101. I def want to try the 22 mag.
327 Federal Magnum vs 22 Magnum !
Either one of those is probably less than ideal as a self defense round. A .25 auto is also less than ideal, however I wouldn't want any of them going off in my face at 7-10 feet. As far as the arthritis ( or nerve damage etc) is concerned, platforms like the S&W EZ may be more suitable, but for some with severe disabilities,sadly any handgun may be out of the question.,I don't have an answer for that problem,but maybe someone does.
90 grain that be good for practice but for self-defense I use something a lot heavier
Oh. I see you did make a video on the .38 manstopper
Is there any downside to hand loading some 110 grain FMJS really light, somewhere around the 900 FPS range? Seems like it wouldn’t be bad for low recoil self defense.
Maybe even lower into the 800 FPS range
I have done it before. The only downside is case capacity is massive, so it's not easy to get the best burn going on unless it's loaded to a +P level. I would say a good bulky powder would be best for that. It's been awhile since I loaded ammo like that but you often get a big pop and flash just like with this ammo but low recoil, the biggest problem is velocity consistency is usually all over the place.
Sam your 38 short videos showed better performance 😮
The reality of penetration is you only need 4” through the chest to pop lungs and the heart. In the gut there is not a dense wall of flesh, but squishy movable bags of guts. The so called minimum penetration doesn’t really hold water when shooting a person vs a block of gel
Best Low Recoil Load would be 32 S&W or 38 Short Colt or 32 S&W Long
I totally agree with you. With one exception. Both of those loads are kind of hard to find.
@@dougglaus9256 32 S&W Long has been affordable and easy for me to find
Id just get a .357mag. And shoot .38s in it if recoil is too much with the .357 mag. A .22 mag. Is nice too.
Hornady could go with a 90 grain wadcutter in that load at the same velocity... good shootability, decent penetration for self defense.
I still gotta say I don't want to be hit by either. BTW arthritis has taken my drums away for the most part. Anyway, Southern Rock On!
🇺🇸
Again? .32 S&W Long or .38 S&W depending if you prefer a six or five shot snubby.
I'll take the .22 Mag all day long! Eat raw Habanero peppers daily to help with that arthritis.
lol, I used to always see those capsaicin capsules commercials.
Sam, don’t forget the video you posted August 6, 2021. You used a snubby 38 and showed the Lite outperformed all others in the test. The Lite 38 did well. In this video, it seems you’re using a 3 inch. Has it since been invalidated?
I don't really see rimfire as much of a problem in a revolver as in an auto. However, for low recoil in centerfire, I would think something like .32 Long as a RNL in a .327 Fed Mag revolver
Yeah the .32 Long is about the same for recoil and penetration as this .22 Mag, it just needs a LRN to do it.
@@GunSam Have you done .32 Long videos? I don't recall, but it seems like you would have
@GunSam Maybe try out some 200gr RN Manstoppers like the Brits used.
He made several videos about these loads!