Why You Shouldn't Use Free Orchestral Libraries (Edirol Orchestra Etc.)
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2024
- Some of you aren't going to like this, but here's my thoughts on Edirol, Sonatina and the likes.
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🎻 LIBRARIES & SOFTWARE:
(For each module, the libraries are sorted based on how much I like them).
- STRINGS: Metropolis Ark 1 & 3, Nucleus, Cinematic Studio Strings, Fluid Shorts, Cinematic Strings 2, Jaeger
- BRASS: Metropolis Ark 1 & 3, JXL Brass, Nucleus, Twelve Horn Ensemble, CineBrass CORE, Century Brass, Jaeger, Angry Brass
- CHOIR: Oceania, Metropolis Ark 1, Stormchoir 2
- WOODWINDS: CineWinds CORE, Nucleus, Metropolis Ark 1 & 3
- HYBRID PERCS & LOOPS: Damage, PercX, Decimator Drums, Cerberus
- BIG CINEMATIC PERCS: Los Angeles Modern Percussion, New Epic Toms Ensemble, New Epic Dhol Ensemble, CinePerc
- ORCHESTRAL PERCS: CinePerc, Rhapsody Orchestral Percussion, Kontakt Factory Library
- PIANO: The Giant, Woodchester Piano, Spitfire LABS Soft Piano
- HARPS & OTHERS: CineHarp, Kontakt Factory Library
- SYNTHS: Juggernaut, Serum, Harmor, Jaeger, Evolution Atlantica,
- ORCHESTRAL SFX: Metropolis Ark 3, Palette Orchestral FX
- SOLO STRINGS: Tina Guo Solo Cello, Solos of the Sea, Cinematic Studio Strings Solo
- SOLO VOCALS: Jaeger, Vocalisa
- GUITARS: Basic Live Guitars & Bass routed into Waves GTR / Guitar Rig, Metropolis Ark 1, Heavyocity Atlantica
- TRAILER SFX: Custom / Private Samples, AVA Instinct, Cinematic Trailers Designed, Epic Sound Effects Quantum, Scenes From The Multiverse Vol.1, Juggernaut, Jaeger, Evolution Atlantica, AizerX Classic Trailers Toolkit, AizerX Trailer SFX Tools
- REVERB: ValhallaRoom, ValhallaShimmer
- MIXING & MASTERING: iZotope Ozone 9 Advanced, iZotope Neutron, FabFilter Pro-Q3, FL Studio Plugins
- DAW: FL Studio 20
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💻 HARDWARE & PC SPECS:
- Desktop PC: 3.7 GHz Intel Core i7 8700k / 32GB DDR4 RAM / 2TB Samsung Evo860 M.2 SSD
- Laptop PC: Asus ROG GLW752 (2.6GHz Intel Core i7-6700HQ / 16GB DDR4 RAM / 1TB Samsung Evo860 M.2 SSD)
- Audio Interface: M-Audio M-Track Plus
- MIDI Keyboard: M-Audio Keystation 49 MkIII
I also want to stress this was a comparison with a VERY simple track.
If I tried to do the same thing with my acutal complex orchestrations, such as this one, Sonatina / Edirol would be blown out of the water: czcams.com/video/tJ9wi_eoQpA/video.html
PS. Obviously this only applies if you aim to do music professionally in a field that does not accept lack of realism (which means most of them).
There's some fields though, such as indie game soundtracks, where soundfonts would match the aestethic of games and are thus not a problem.
I challenge you to make an One Punch Man style track
Hi @Alex Moukala Tutorials :) I just wanted to ask you which DAW is the best to use? I'm a pianist but I am also interested in getting into orchestral arranging.
@@kduy1383 I think he'll recommend FL Studio because that's what he is using...
Unfortunately practically all freebies required Full version of Kontakt which already costs 400$. But still thanks for the comparison.
Great video, Alex. I just started out with FL studio and I'm using DSK Overture. Is Metropolis Ark a full Library for orchestral? It's not just like a string library or something?
Why you shouldn't use 500 dollars libraries. I don't have 500 dollars.
Although, I do understand your point perfectly
You can get very, very decent orchestral libraries for 250-400 bucks nowadays, especially during sale.
@@WrektSK Or some libraries are available on subscription, like SoundsOnline's ComposerCloud (he mentions it in the video as a suggestion - and some of those libraries in EWQL are used in films and trailers)
@@giftheck Yeah those as well. I am personally not a fan of subscription services though. As someone just entering his 20s, it's hard to keep paying for something monthly. But yeah, what's worth it is worth it.
@@WrektSK That's an understandable position.
@@WrektSK It's better to know when the sale happens and where. I've never seen any yet. I'm a complete beginner in this stuff.
00:55 conducting the orchestra with a mouse pointer like a boss
pahahahahahahahahaha
😂
But maybe I want my music to sound like Age of Empires II.
But then you couldn't do Age of Empires: The Movie.
@@TallicaMan1986 that is a hilarious concept for a movie!
Lmaoo
I've actually been looking for the Age of Empires II Hammered dulcimer sample for years now
@@LordComradeAnarchoCapitalus ask Steve Melin
Obviously when listened side by side it will sound like a large difference, but if you are just using the free stuff from the start you will really not notice any lack of quality. Obviously the people in the film industry etc. are really snobby about everything being as expensive and 'premium' as possible, but if you are just releasing the music yourself you shouldn't go out and waste all your money on some overpriced library.
It is very difficult for music producers to ever get noticed at all. It isn't a matter of talent, there is loads of amazing music on CZcams and Soundcloud with only a couple of plays, much of it is luck. It is also easy for those who already have loads of money and exposure to go on about how simple things are, or how cheap things are.
Oh man this is very true.
Indeed
Very true.
Well, if you just care about practicing composition or orchestration, then I'd just prefer using NotePerformer 3 + good mixing and extra reverb. It's cheaper than samples and can sound amazing out of the box. Though, the quality of the composition is a big factor. Large Ensembles/orchestras tend to sound the best and busy/fortissimo sections sound superb (I tried it with Flight to Neverland in Finale and it blew me away, haha...).
Shut uuppp, he's not talking to those people.
If you are just learning to score like me and its just a hobbe, use this:
sonatina for windwoods, violin section and maybe the horn(in sustain(
vsco: for solo violin or organ
spitfireLabs: for string section, atmos, piano, mandolin
The free orchesta projectSAM: some powerfull brass, and violon Staccato and more
And last, percussion i download some samples from difrent places and use it with sforzando
where did you download the percussion samples, pls tell me
Like I said in another post, if you just care about practicing composition or orchestration, then I just prefer using NotePerformer 3 + good mixing and extra reverb. It's way cheaper than samples ($125) and can sound amazing out of the box. Though, the quality of the composition is a big factor. Large Ensembles/orchestras tend to sound the best and busy/fortissimo sections sound superb (I tried it with Flight to Neverland in Finale and it blew me away, haha...).
The free one sounds like runescape music lol
ikr haha insane how bad it sounds compared to the pro
woah, don't shame runescape.
I used Edirol Orchestra for two years, hahah. It's okay, if you're composing for a low budget game or something like that.
Anybody else think that Sonatina at 8:50 sounds amazing?
Lmfao XD
Doesn't it make more sense to buy something that sounds good out of the box? Yeah sometimes but sometimes it is also extremely helpful to get along with free stuff because your own creativity will be more challenged.
I‘m a Hip-Hop beat maker but still found this tutorial very useful. The knowledge you drop is very valuable no matter what type of music the viewer creates. Great video.
I actually really like the free ones. Sounds like some dope dungeon synth. Guess it depends on your artistic intent and what you want to do with your sound.
Same.
Stylistic Choices
I used to use free libraries such as fl keys as piano, but now I can’t stand the sound, it sounds like playing plastic instead of playing the piano
Keyzone Classic has two pianos that sound pretty well, and if you have Kontakt "Piano in 162" by Ivy Audio is really good
Keyzone classic is the best free piano VST hands down
@@vodun270 pianoteq 6
4Front Piano is an AMAZING Free Piano VST
Try the piano packs from DirectWave
Just a quick note: soundfonts aren't synthesized. That doesn't mean that they don't usually sound bad: they do typically. But to the best of my knowledge they are sampled. VST is a replacement format for SF2 etc. The differences you're hearing are all in the quality of the recordings (player skill, recording hardware quality, number of velocity layers and round robins recorded), the the ability of the programmer (who designed the package, compensating for the oddities of making recorded strings sound natural), and the limitations of the format (Kontakt via VST or SF2). I would hazard to say that if a large company decided to use SF2 to sample a professional library (as some have done) it would sound quite good, although not as good as Kontact because of the programming limitations of SF2. Sonatina was a university project I believe.
this
Sonatina was made 10 years ago and you can hear that. I use the Sonatine because Spitfire BBC Orchestra has no choir and I also use the flutes. When using free libraries we need to be more flexible. I'm using a few classical compositions to evaluate the instruments from different plugins - sound and range.
"VST is a replacement format for SF2"
Mixing your metaphors.
SF2 is a sound font, a format to hold sound and some formatting to be triggered by a midi instruction/device.
VST "is an audio plug-in software interface that integrates software synthesizers and effects units into digital audio workstations."
A VST might have no sound fonts at all, using a synthesis engine to create sound.
Some VST's might use a sound library of samples to build sound and it might use any format it chooses, one being Sound Fonts.
Pretty simple for me: if you want to be a professional music composer, invest.
If you are doing things for fun, or for learning purposes, well, sonatina it's a good option.
I personally use versillian chamber orchestra 2, (the free sfz version) and with velocity, key-switches and timing taken into account, i'd say it could be one of the most realistic sounding orchestras out there, with everything from organ, glockenspiel and nearly every drum and percussion instrument you'd find in an orchestra.
So not the most epic sounding, but the most realistic.
I bought the paid version of that library and it was also easily worth it. I still find useful nuggets in there on certain projects I generally couldn't find anywhere else.
Convolution reverb is the key to make them sound like pro!
I know there are all these freebies going around, but I just can't afford Kontakt to run them in....
@@da5idnz there's a free version of kontakt called kontakt player but it wont work if the library doesn't support it.
I understand the comparison. I've felt that the free ones are good for theory and those songs that need to sound synthetic. But if you really want realistic sounds save up and invest.
Yes, but I believe companies like Spitfire have good free options too (LABS) with more expensive ones, aswell (Kepler Orchestra). Not all free samples sound bad, for example most of the LABS collection is sampled from an actual orchestra.
High quality fee orchestras on the market:
- Palette Primary Colors by Red Room Audio. (requires full version of kontakt)
-The Free Orchestra by ProjectSAM (works with Kontakt Player)
-BBC Discover Orchestra by Spitfire Audio (they have an own host)
- X3M Taikos by Strezov Sampling (requires kontakt full version)
- The Big Bang Orchestra by Vienna Symphonic Library (they have an own host, but you will need to download ilok to use as an e-licenser that is free btw).
- Labs by Spitfire Audio (isn't an orchestra, but have nice samples to use when creating a score/soundtrack).
“Why you shouldn’t be poor” 😂
Tough love that may have just persuaded me to go ahead and use my savings. Your channel is awesome man.
Dude, this is the first video of yours I've seen, and you are really inspiring. Keep it up!
For those starting out I think the full version of kontakt has to be a good option. You get a decent orchestral library and lots of other instruments but also the full version will allow you to use lots of the free and paid libraries available.
Just so you know, Sonatina isn't synthesized, it is all based on recordings. Not as many nor as good quality recordings(samples) as modern paid libraries but recordings none the less.
I think Edirol is also sample based at least some of the instruments, again very old and very few samples.
The rest is fair advice.
correct: the point is "use good samples" not "use samples that were expensive". The advice here could lead someone to ignore a great sound just because it was free, or use an expensive (but bad) library without additional thought.
And there are many expensive but bad libraries :) (and there are some magnificent free sounds out there too!)
The only reason I've used Edirol is for very specific sounds (for instance, certain percussion - or if I want the oboe from Nathan McCree's original Tomb Raiders) but I much prefer using the instruments I've got though the ComposerCloud subscription. I've even played around with other packages in the past. I know some of the stuff I've written certainly would not have sounded great or even come around if I had been using Edirol to make music.
Edirol has its place, but I agree that it definitely shouldn't be used as a crutch.
Ok, you are right, but here's my counterargument
Me no have extra 500 dollars to spend on music that's gonna be in my project folders for all eternity
I recently using Sonatina, because im still learning orchestration, mixing and music theory. But i'll bought quality sample library someday
This comment really bothers me for some reason.
@Soul Muzic Productions No, I think it's the fact that it got 26 likes.
Sillonius Aeldarian Same
Not a lot of us have spare cash lying around, so the free libraries will make do for the time being.
free libraries are fine if you're just learning
Sonatina seems to be a little outdated now. Aside from the freebies you mentioned (unfortunately they all require a full version of Kontakt except for the labs ones) there are better free alternatives to Sonatina, such as VSCO2 (CE) and Virtual Playing Orchestra which are much more complete in terms of possibilities (keyswitches, articulations, dynamics for VPO, etc.). Indeed they can't compete with the sound of premium studio recorded libraries like Metropolis Ark or Albion but I think they may be enough for specific use of instruments (eg if you have a generalist but limited library) or for sketching.
I’ve tried making some orchestral tracks over the years just for fun, and only ever used the Logic Pro stock plugins. It took hours upon hours to make it sound even close to decent, but I learned a lot about how to get closer to the sound I wanted by utilizing what I had available to it’s fullest potential (relative to the degree of skill I had), and it forced me to pay very close attention to how I arranged my tracks.
After coming across your videos recently, I pulled the trigger on Metropolis Ark 1-4 on a massive sale, and after a few hours of learning how to use it, it really feels like pay to win. But I also feel like what I learned from using free libraries for so long plays a big part in how easily I can use the instruments and articulations to get the sound I want, and identify the problem when something sounds off.
To get to the point, those “hours you’re giving away for free” are hours well spent if you use them wisely, because you’ll learn a lot of valuable lessons. And when you finally move over to more professional libraries, it will give your music (and motivation) new life.
Great insight
totally agree. I scored my first film using only logic pro and ozone imager! This means i get hired based on this as well
Edirol Orchestral isn't free. It's just discontinued obsolete commercial virtual instrument.
TLDR: Don't drink beer.
Alex: Creates the best, most complex music I've ever heard in my life, something that I can only dream of even getting close to-
Alex: Now that's not really a good compisition, even a bad one maybe.
Man stop being a s@ck @ss, this is a melody from Lord of the Rings OST, not even his own (he does make great music though)
youre mom gay
Let artists criticise their own music
I tend to use two separate softwares for the sound I want.
I use Finale for my original orchestral pieces, and FL Studio for my remixes and original gaming music. For FL Studio, I prefer more synthetic sounds, because it matches the atmosphere of gaming.
However, you are absolutely correct. We *do* need legit libraries if we want high quality orchestral pieces.
The problem with freebies like in 4:00 is that it still requires kotakt (full version) for like $300+... At that point you can get almost full one, good library that runs on kontakt player.
Yep, you could get BBCSO Core on sale for that price.
Edirol is amazing if you play around with it, honestly
Heh, didn't think of seeing you here!
True. EQ work , compression, panning, etc. can bring out a pretty organic sound.
So.True.
And I can only agree with the « freebies » tip.
Performance Samples & Spitfire Labs are great choices (don’t know the others, will try them!), as well as the ComposerCloud.
wow, really well done on the Shore Mockup, sounds very great and big! I'm a huge LOTR fan myself!
Cheers!
I think I'll do a full one someday. Got a bit of a weird idea already
@@AlexMoukala Yes please!
Alex u r the best man and I don't want any other tutor. U r at the top man, keep teaching us. Thanks for your services Sir!! ❤️😊👌🙏
In my opinion I like the lower quality version, it gives the music a certain sound and feeling that I really like. also getting random soundfonts and using new samples really peaks my inspiration.
I think many people in the comments misunderstand this video, it's not really aimed at hobbyists or keen amateurs but it
is aimed at anybody who is serious about composing music commercially and in many fields they expect music to sound as realistic
as possible otherwise it will be rejected. But if your creating music just to share it on CZcams and your in the hobbyist/amateur camp
then there is no "right or wrong" answer on what you should use, there are many different people on CZcams who like different kinds
of music. Also as this video was made 4 years ago things have changed since and you can now get half decent libraries for free like
Spitfire Labs and BBCSO Discover.
I think that there are definitely some bad VST's out there, but I have to admit that Ediro and Sonataina, while not professional, can stand on their own. Especiallyfor being free lol.
That's easy say when you're made of money. To pay that much for a plug in, is more than some people earn in a month.
Everything is free when you look hard enough, though I wouldn't recommend using it commercially and attaching your personal name to it.
tbh i feel like the better title would have been "Why you shouldn't use *this* Free Orchestral Library" There are plenty of free ones out there that really aren't all that bad, Spitfire Audio LABS are pretty decent, and have their own Mod wheel settings for reverb, attack, release etc, and i've been seeing a lot of talk about a free library that Project Sam has (though you *do* still need the full version of Kontakt in order to use that one, but as gh jkl said, there are free library's out there that can do what you need them to do
Also, I would say that while still learning, during all this patching and manual stuff is going to improve your technical skills and understanding of sound. You probably aren't making anything that great yet anyway. I would say a few months of the harder way is worth the learning experience.
Dropped my free library for Jaeger just now. While I am unable to get anywhere close to its full utility as compared to you, a beginner like myself will eventually have to make the switch some day. It's not going to be cheaper on "some day" so I might as well get it now and in the meanwhile face marginally less amounts of frustration while learning.
Next level tip with the FL Patcher and VFX Color Mapper. I had been wondering how to switch articulations and I figured you just had to include the control keys like the low C# into the piano roll.
I totally agree with your points but everyone has to start somewhere so probably the free stuff are good for starters.
I use all plugins. Stock, free and omnisphere. It all sounds fire.
I'm broke and don't even drink beer. lol The sound is amazing in the non free one, but sometimes people just can't afford anything extra at all. Don't discourage people from using what they can until they can afford better.
You (and many others) seem to have missed the part in this video where I recommend free software that is almost as good as the paid ones.
It's really about finding the good free stuff, I think between Labs and Project Sam you can get most of what you need for free. And Spitfire has what I think sound really good for 29 bucks (Spitfire Originals)
I agree, but there's something to be said about using cheap, free, or mid-tier libraries (EastWest Composer Cloud for example) to learn with. What I did was use ComposerCloud to learn to nail the orchestration and composition aspect of this craft, so that when I moved up to better, easier to use libraries, my compositions could really start to shine. If you can make good music with bad/mediocre libraries, you can make great music with great libraries. I still think it's a good plan that others should follow, because I know a lot of mediocre composers with many different professional libraries that they expect to carry their skills. If you use this strategy, always remember that at some point you should switch if/when you can.
Very educational.
The working composers I know all buy huge numbers of libraries. As a humble synth-head I can sympathize, after all I have at least a half-dozen FM synths.
Yep, and the cool thing is that you can even be good with just 3-4 great libraries.
No need to spend an incredible amount either if you buy them on sale.
Then of course, the more you have, the more freedom you get but I'd argue it's best to build a collection over the span of many years, so that you have the time to master each library you buy 100% before hopping on a new one
This is super interesting even though I am not even producing orchestral music 👍🏽 I really enjoy seeing how people make their music and I always try to take notes for myself 👀
I loved that you used the beer = money analogy. I used it all the time whenever I try to justify an investment (you know, this Virtual Instrument/game is just three beers or two saturday night).
For most of those freebies you need full Kontakt, which is not free... That's why Spitfire LABS uses its own plugin, to be completely free.
And, well, you could also apply this topic to classical background composers who used all their life Sibelius/Finale/Dorico-like programs and expect people to listen to their music as they do... Oh, I can relate a LOT of this. I wish in my music school they have taugh us how to use properly DAWs and virtual instruments, not Notation editors (which are great, but far easier to master an less useful to actually do music). And it is related with the free instruments, as the problem is the same: Sound Quality.
You can't expect people to imagine your music as it would sound in an ideal world. You have to deliver quality. And this requires a lot of skill and training time!
Thanks Alex, great video!
The sounds from Sibelius and stuff sound terrible. Any free plugin in fl studio are more decent.
the harsh truth with the harsh lighting lol
thanks for the side-by-side though, thats a WORLD of difference.
Umm, if you just care about practicing composition or orchestration (not Midi Orchestration), and don't mind spending a tiny little, then I just prefer using NotePerformer 3 + good mixing and extra reverb. It's way cheaper than samples ($125 or so) and can sound amazing out of the box in Finale/Sibelius/Dorico. Though, the quality of the composition is a big factor. Large Ensembles/orchestras tend to sound the best and busy/fortissimo sections sound superb (I tried it with Flight to Neverland in Finale and it blew me away, haha...).
I m 42. Ive always wanted to compose scores. I am learning piano and have really good hearing for pitches etc and spent A LOT of my 20s playing with sonic foundary Acid - loved that. From your experience what subjects and software do you recommend buying and learning and in which order? Very excited!
Your beers are really expensive. I'm so sorry
@Fresh Burrito 10 dollars for a beer?
For real dude! Here in Portugal, the standard price for a beer is 1 euro, 1,2 dolars. And don't get me started on the beer quality
@@maruko8324 He mentions how you can save money for your expansions and said if you don’t have 10 beers you already save $60... That’s some expensive beer. I buy a pack of 12 for £10 😂
You're right especially about the end, that time, money and effort thing. really enjoy your honest opinions and need that sometimes ;)
Hey Alex, it was a few months ago when i subscribed to your chanel and back then you had 20k subscribers. I just noticed you've grown up to 38k and i just wanted to share my happiness for you with you. Keep going man. You're gonna reach 1 million in a blink of an eye...
Good luck man ;)
The Sonitina sounded pretty decent to me. But then I'm not a professional composer, I'm more into rock, funk, blues, jazz, disco, soul and retro 80's electronic music.
But when you drink ten beers you can't hear the difference! This is an awesome demonstration man!
You can actually trigger articulations in sonatina, we've discovered it accidentally because it isn't in the module, in the violin section the switches starts at C3 to G#3. In the Cello section it is in c2 to D#.
I still can't find a string sound quite as buttery smooth as the Edirol strings. I think with certain things, you cannot use free ones, but sometimes they get the job done, and in other cases (like in Edirol's case), it's something completely different. As far as I understand, it's not a real orchestra, but is a combination of synthesis and real instruments?
So I personally wouldn't really lump Edirol in with the rest of the free Romplers (based on RF samples).
But for sure, get the free versions of the high end libraries.
I bought Edirol about 15 years ago I think and I still use it from time to time. Sometimes a lightweight out-of-the-box tool like this fits perfectly (especially if you need your computer's ressources for something else at the same time).
I would say it really depends on what do you want at the end, if you are looking for commercial standard output, then you definitely wanna spend literally thousands of dollars on the sound libraries. But if you are doing some basic mock ups and planning to record it later with actual orchestral band, then I would say free libraries are just fine
That`s the point. Creating something with all those libraries is one thing, beeing able to transfer that into a score playable (and well sounding) for a real orchestra is a completely different thing.
Tbh I like the sound of Edirol orchestral.
Most of the games I played as a kid used it (plants vs zombies, Maplestory, etc).
It has an aesthetic that I love..
Kinda reminds me of dungeon synth..
Edirol Orchestral is actually based on sounds from the Roland SRJV Orchestral sound module/
plugin board for the Roland JV/XV/XP keyboards and modules with a few sounds based on
Roland SC-88 samples. Those video games most likely used hardware sound modules for those
sounds. I think Alex is mainly talking about producing music professionally for trailers or music
libraries or any similar field with very high expectations. But if your only producing music as a hobby
then there is no "right or wrong" answer on what you should or shouldn't not use. I still use free
VST instruments like DSK Virtuoso and Sonatina. I also use stock plugins mainly for VST effects.
You can also spend 500 bucks on a wind controller and make almost anything sound more realistic. Personally, I don't find any amount of programming to be enough for a realistic track, you'll need real musicians for that, especially when composing something complex. Still, at the heart of every composition is the skill of the composer and the performers, even the freebies can sound amazing in the right hands. I'm just getting into Edirol (which is 30 years old for the record) and most instruments sound great for realism, although my main goal is to recreate the 00s midi sound, which is where they really shine.
tl;dr: Get a wind controller, realism is more than high recording quality.
Sorry lol, just my two cents.
I was about to get really triggered because of the title until I realized you linked LABS in the description.
To be honest, it's the absolute best free orchestral pack. Lots of instruments, they sound incredible, and if you're ready to move to something better they have literal *tons* of other instruments such as Kepler Orchestra, a 300$ pack that they advertise *on* the LABS website. They'll even deliver a hard-drive to you if you want!
Sonatina as well as VSCO2 are available as free Kontakt libraries with articulations, CCs, etc. Virtual Playing Orchestra is only available as sfz. All are sampled anyway, not modelled, and offer controls, performance patches and so on. Another free orchestral library is The Total Composure.
I kno this is 4 years old but still on point today thanks King BlessUp
Just another music snob. You don't need expensive instruments nor do you need expensive programs to get the job done. I personally use Mixcraft 9 Pro Studio and it's far less expensive, it's easy to use, and it has everything you need including a video editor so. And with the right eqing and mastering you can make free instruments sound more realistic.
I have done loads of projects in Mixcraft RS using just stock VSTs in the past and at the time I thought the Acoustica Instruments
sounds were good samples even though I don't really use them that much now. But when it comes to VST effects I nearly always
use DAW stock and only download free VST effects if there is something the stock plugins can't offer.
I think the differences is on what you intend to do and how much resources and skill you have. Like everything. You can have the money to purchase the best quality orchestras libraries and yet not posses the skill or the knowledge on how to use it therefore it will be pointless. like having a Bentley to go to the local market that is less than 3 miles from your home... What that tell me is that you just expending on luxuries that you will don't need or use appropriately. It is like buying a $5,000 keyboard and using 3 sounds that are piano, pad and an organ. You are using .1 percent of your keyboard plain and simple. With that in mind a it is important specially with orchestra to spend in knowing how an instrument sound and what an instrument can or should do and what it doesn't. Then how easy is to produce that sound in the library you want because if is not easy then you will spend tons of time trying to do the sound more than producing something. Finally get familiar with the sound of the library since it can be recorded professionally but sound vary and that is good depending on what type of music you want to produce. Each library have different sound and they can be a good tool if that is what you do for life, however, like I said a good library would never substitute the skills and knowledge of how an orchestra should sound.
Great video! Always enjoy your content. Really like the comparison. I still remember the first time I actually bought a hefty lib from spitfire. Blew my mind how much better it sounded and started a bad trend for my wallet. XD Just a side note, Soundfont files are sample based and then they use the samples to "synthesize" the rest of the instrument similar to making an entire instrument in kontakt with only a couple samples, so its really sample based, just nowhere near the level of proper libs. Shreddage is an example that exists in both .nki and soundfont files.
Looks like your point concerns what is software enough for Professional work. Not being Megan Randa Composer For Media, I'm not ready for an investment in EW libraries, just dabbling with Spitfire BBCSO Discover. But I know there'll come a day when I'll want Spitfire's serious libraries, so your point is well taken. I'm just taking my old stuff and advancing it past the Roland MT-32 synth box that was so state of the art back in the 1990s, for now. Gotta start somehow.
I guess if your goal is realism sure, but for application to a hip hop beat or covered with effects, it can still be made use of perfectly fine. You should in fact use it if you can. it's easy to use and free.
NO! It is NOT a real brass section. A REAL brass section is a bunch of people playing the parts directed by a conductor. Or the composer for that matter.
there are free orchestral libraries that are recordings of real instruments though (check out spitfire BBCSO discover)
1. What do you think about SOVINOX instruments?
2. I've used Virtual Playing Orchestra. It's a free sound library that can be played with Plogue's Sforzando. It can be a good (free) start for music composition. But it has it's problems.
For what it's worth, I really like Sonivox. There are some great staccatos, the string sustains can be very nice combined with other libraries, I like the flutes and some of the other winds. The brass staccatos are great, the room in which the instruments were recorded sounds great. Though there is no proper modwheel dynamics on the instruments which is a pity. But I personally like them :)
Any free or paid sounds library/ vst are ok to use. It all depends on what is your aim or the purpose. Saying that this or that is no good is very wrong. In fact, some people prefer using lower-quality sounds for the mockup. On the other hand, some people are more inspired or driven by less. Less is more.
Okay... I am going to sound DUMB here but I really need to ask this.... How everyone on CZcams is clicking on the playlist in FL while keeping their plugin window open?!!!.... I SERIOUSLY NEED HELP WITH THIS ONE!
Man this video hit so many key points. I like how you are keeping it real about the craft. From all the CZcams tutorials I’ve seen, no one has kept it this real! Man I sat back and re-evaluated my entire career. Appreciate you bro! 🙏🏾 (also, I’m a hip hop/lofi producer)
Actually, Sonatina also is based on samples. Just short and not high quality.
For a good quality free orchestras, you can try Spitfire Discover and ProjectSAM - so much better than the old Sonatina and Edirol.
I don’t subscribe to channels quickly, but damn you know what you’re talking about
Composer Cloud is amazing. Can totally recommend it!
I understand what you are saying but I thought both renditions sound great and have a place - both remind me of audio from video games, but different games/era's etc. Thanks for sharing
do most musicians have the ability to figure out if I used free vs premium instruments? Like if I gave a random youtube song for example. I am guessing no.
I just bought my first orchestral libraries thanks Alex for all the tips!
I prefer simply yet genial music. With VST like edirol you can compose pretty good arrangements for smaller enables. At least good enough for me back in the days. But maybe not as a "end of the line"-production. But that's not exactly what it's for, so I guess you're right on that one. Still I think it's really usable for what I'm using it for.
One example is Plants vs Zombies OST music... just listen to it, the Composer used Edirol Orchestral and it sounds 11/10. Listen to Watery Graves (fast version)...
Edirol Orchestral isn't free and was never free
It's just discontinued, so the only way to obtain it is by pirating it
It was released in 2004 just so you know, so that explains many of its shortcomings
You're comparing apples to oranges. Here's the thing, while the expensive libraries sound great, they still don't sound like a real orchestra to me. Go listen to the Orchestre National du Capitole de Toulouse. Libraries don't even come close. I've been listening to real orchestras for decades.
I prefer the sound of Edirol for it's unique qualities- just don't use it to score a movie theme. Or for intricate orchestra compositions. Use Edirol for it's unique quality in music that doesn't demand a 'real' orchestra musician. In other words for a synthetic quality that's meant to be synthetic, not realistic. Then, nothing beats Edirol. For example the vibrato flute in Edirol is very musical. But not as realistic as in an expensive library.
So comparing Edirol to an expensive library is apples to oranges. IMO
BBC Symphony Orchestra by Spitfire Audio is free, if you complete a survey and it sounds freaking amazing and realistic, and has loads of articulations and key switches for them. They also have a really cool percussion section and some melodic percussion. The cool thing about it is that it only plays within the range of the instruments, which means that you can easily score parts for a certain instrument without going out of its range and therefore remain sounding realistic. I also think that the instrument all may be panned in 360 pan depending on where they're located in the orchestra, so you get a visual soundscape of the orchestra, as if you are there.
Alex, your talent is huge and I love what you do with your productions. I think dynamics are really a bit much, bigger than life, so perhaps the best game makers are employing you (or soon).
Did you find Tina Guo? She is an incredible cello player, but also composer, and master in Asian instruments. Her dynamics are so right on the spot. Perhaps some collaboration might become a win-win? She also works with a plugin maker, who records her playing for his products.
I'm currently using those free stuff.....sonatina and edirol are a couple of those. Its very time consuming. I did learn a few tricks over the 8 months since I start goin into orchestral music at the start of this year. However it's very frustrating sometimes to do alot of things on them just to get them sound alittle better than they originally are. I do plan to purchase a good library in the near future. But at the moment I can't afford one yet. Oh and Alex what do you think of Audio Imperia's Nucleus?
Alex, you are a treasure. A wealth of Orchestral plug-in info here. Not yet ready to buy but I did pick up Layers (free) from orchestraltools as a starter. I just found out about and downloaded Labs (free) yesterday from spitfireaudio. There is also BBC Symphony Orchestra which you can also get for free from spitfire if you fill out a questionnaire, which I did.
To have a pretty good free orchestral library, you can have the spitfire LABS (strings, horns, percs) , LABS Discover Orchestra (free if you fill a survey) and projectSAM The Free Orchestra (sampled from their costy libraries).
I have to add in my own experience. I had following your channel for some time now and love your tutorials. Thanks to you Alex., I had taken the EVENANT COURSE and today 5 days after taking class. I can say that, this is one of my best investment in my Recording Studio. You will see the change in my composition very soon. My youtube channel will tell the improve of my music. I got the tools and the piano skill, but I didn`t know how to do the orquestation. You guide me to the right place, and I will be gratefull all my life for it. Thanks
is it just me or did we not listen to the edirol version?? why would this video be called why to not use edirol when you don't even let us have a listen and instead focus on some other plugin, rather it be called why to not use sonatina. like i said, i am not sure cause i skipped through most of the video just to see if you would play it, maybe you did, but i didn't notice it, i was just curious about that one, not all free ones are the same, and some may have pluses and cons like all paid stuff too. i also played around with more professional ones which often just sound synthetic and crap too, and you can of course combine. but edirol is free, while other plugins don't cost 500 euros combined but even one plugin may cost 500 euros and you end with some synthetic sounding crap anyway. your arrangement sounds great but did you not use a gazillion plugins? was that really only 500 dollars? then i guess you found some cheap ones that are actually good. my experience is that most plugins are super expensive and marketed as being the best thing since sliced bread but then end up sounding like poop anyway. definitely try a plugin first if that is possible instead of being lured into these marketing schemes of sound libraries pretending to sound great, but that don't, and all the knobs just basically do the same, you fiddle around with the volume and velocity and still need to master/eq everything. if you are a professional and you have thousands of euros to spend, sure, but if it is a hobby, why not try to make the best of what costs less? if you are make a great arrangement someone else will master it for you professionally. isn't that what most "DIY" music artists do? Though, of course it's better if you can do that all yourself and have loads of money to spend from the work you are able to market and sell. That is ideal, but not everyone is so privileged.
Alex, very good analysis because you have what most people don't have. You have sensitive and refined ears! The average person listens to music on a speaker of a smart phone and they don't mind the "tinniness" of the sound. There is an orchestral sound VST engine called GPO 6. I have the GPO 4 and with the tight massaging it imitates reality pretty well. I don't have the patience to tweak it. I use it basically as a mistakes checker.
"Garritan Personal Orchestra" GPO 6, I hope that you decide to review it one day.
Instead of free libraries, going with something like Composer Cloud should be a no-brainer. Thank you, Alex, for putting this together, as I had the same question running in my mind for a while some time ago.
Please do a tutorial on the thing you do in patcher, that stuff could be so useful with hybrid stuff 🙏
A little reverb goes a long way with some of these free orchestral VSTs, and many of them are sampled from real players in orchestras too these days.
Please review Layers by Orchestral Tools. It's free and recorded using irl instuments. Just discovered and started using but idk what I'm doing wrong. If I use it as an instrument in a DAW, it just clashes with everything and sounds out of tune and idk how or why cos alone it sounds amazing.
I'm planning on using one paid orchestral vst plugin. Along with a bunch of other free vsts, With two DAW's in hand.
Nucleus Lite Edition
BBC Symphony Orchestra Discover
The Free Orchestra
The Free Orchestra 2
Komplete Start
Surge XT
BitFlip
Vinyl Guitar 2
Shreddage 3 Stratius
Shreddage 3 Precision
MT Power DrumKit 2
MFreeFXBundle
Mixcraft 10.5 Pro Studio
Cubase 13 Elements
You see, the composers and producers from japan basically are using the cheapest sounds and creates the best tracks, from 1980s until now. Can you imagine the Capcom is still using Sound Canvas?
I say it's never a harm to get your hands dirty, tweak some knobs, and try to make best tracks out of so called cheap sounds.
Do you recommend fl studio over N track studios? What's your thoughts
I use sonivox orchestral and it's the best u can afford when u r broke af (sometimes you can buy it for 1 beer on pluginboutique)