I got one of those stands just days ago. The linear bearings for the arms for holding the hub was a bit sloppy for my liking so they had a bit too much play. I solved that by moving the 15mm rods further apart from each other at the ends but I also had to file the holes of the middle section a bit more elliptical and put shims forcing the 15mm rods further apart. (Also had to change the zero for the two indicator arms by bringing it up to he hub holding arms and losening the screws just a little bit and tapping the plate holding the arms.) Don't use the aluminium plate to check for up and down play just use the top of the plastic on the indicator arms!
I feel it's worth noting that 'conventional' use of dial indicators isn't to have them at their outer extent. Normally, you would move the indicator body in towards the work so that the needle rotates at least once round. Then, at that arbitrary point, you zero the outer ring. From there the indicator is able to show plus/minus deflections as the work-piece wobbles towards and away from the indicator body - the arm/point of the indicator remains in contact with the work-piece throughout. I say conventional because the common use of dial indicators is centring work in a lathe chuck (or similar along with height measurements on a surface plate). Most dial indicators are calibrated/certified for use in the centre portion of their travel. The outer extent is in some respects where they are least accurate (especially some digital versions). The downside with many bike wheels is that the running surface for the dial indicator may not be that smooth (textured rim brake tracks on some carbon rims for example, or logo stickers on disc brake rims). As you note, the visual guide of simple caliper arms is usually the fastest option - the eye is just very good at seeing a small gap vary.
Yeah would save a lot of time and get more precision if he used your method. This whole idea of spinning the wheel around and trying to get the indicator to barely touch at one spot is just wasting time.
I used a similar spoke tensioner, made setup much easier. Interesting that sound tuning, pinging the spoke, once up to near full tensioner is equally telling! :-) The analogue dial is fine and no battery needed, or the corrosion that they often cause.
I just got this truing stand in the mail four days ago! I did need to center the calipers by aligning them to the legs. Easy to do by loosening the two bolts attaching them to the arm.
14:30 You should use the plastic pointers to measure the vertical movement, you don't want to scrape your rims. The micrometer should start with already some tension in it, then you glance the extremes and put your "0" roughly in the centre of the displacement. You should also check with a vernier that the distance from the side of the rim to the carrying arms is roughly the same and use it as the "0". I also measure the the opening of the carrying arms when inserting the wheel because it's an aluminium bar and it has more flex that the "U" shaped Park tool one. I have the exact same tool and I've noticed that the supposed centre is a bit of so I don't use the plastic pointers as reference for fine tuning because it may put your dishing off, verify with a vernier.
@@stevenleffanue No need if you use this method, in the end (or occasionally) you can reverse the wheel to check any issue but I discarded it because it is true and symmetric everytime. One thing that I'll be adding is one roller tip to the lateral micrometer.
A good truing stand has a mechanism to ensure the alignment of the prongs before you start on the wheel. The bonus of this is that once calibrated, you don't need a dishing tool. SuperB has one, as does Unior. Park also used to do one but it's getting harder to find. All are basically a block of aluminium laser cut - you insert into the prongs and ensure everything lines up. Super-B has a great video explaining how it works.
Many thanks, excellent presentation of up to date truing tools. The spirit of cycling is surely freedom and simplicity , and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in building perfectly true and tight wheels within the bike itself, using nothing more than a good fitting spoke key. That said, I feel there could be a market here for a particular type of truing device designed to work by attaching to your bike frame....come on manufacturers, you're missing a trick here! 🚴
I had such a tool that I bought here in Holland roughly 25 years ago, it was attached with a simple clamp with a knob that had a hard wire with a Presta valve cap as the feeler! I'll see if I can find it. On the other hand you can do as I have done in the past, when rebuilding a wheel while on the road with a new rim, my tools of choice was 3 popsicle sticks and 4 rubber bands, remove the CALIPER once the rim stansfer is complete reinstall the wheel with no tire then go at it from there.
i have many spoke tensiometers. this one fails at the spring. use 2 zip ties to prevent the spring from creeping to have consistent reading. I made my own calibration testbed to spec and spoke for more accuracy. cheers
if you check both sides you can see if the rim is pinched or bent in another way. .18mm on the non-drive side, but can be allot more on the drive side. I've had a few issues with damaged new rims in the past.
14:28 ouch, this awful sound. I suppose, you should use the side indicators for the radial adjustment (just move them under the rim), just as you do it on the parktool stand. That's why there are protective white caps to save your rim from getting scratched.
I like these "new" tools. I prefer frugal. I made a universal, adjustable wheel truing jig out of a broken spoke. It fits in my pocket. I true a dozen wheels a day. Free. No waiting. No shipping. No grease.
@@marshall2389 Nearly. It looks like the cyrilic letter "Б" or a stick figure of a giraffe looking backwards. The "head" is the spoke fastener (nipple/nut). It has a "neck." The "legs" and "body" of the giraffe are the rest of the spoke. To make the Wheel Truing Fancy? Tool: 1. Measure from rim to stay. 2. Put a fastener on a spoke 3. Make 90 degrees bend at #1 distance from head to make the "neck" 4. At 70mm (2.75 in) from head, make 180 degress bend back towards "neck" to make the "front leg" (spoke should be doubled over onto itself). 5. At 45mm away from the "front foot" (up the "front leg") make a 90 degrees bend away from the "front leg" to make the "belly" 6. At 20mm (7/8 in) make a 90 degrees bend "down" to make a second "leg" 7. Perpendicular to the "front foot" make a 180 degrees bend "up" toward the "belly" to finish the "back leg" 8. Cut the remaining spoke off at the "belly. 9. Apply adhesive tape (masking tape is good - non-slip and 'gives') to both "legs" to hold your new WTF? tool on the stay 10. Adjust the fastener ("head") in/out as you would on any hundred-quid truing stand for rim trueness. Let me know if I was unclear at any point.
iv had my eye on that truing stand one iv got is verry basic its served me well iv been looking into ether that one or a park tools one but couldent find anyone reviewing it so ty for the vid from uk
Just saw the video. Looks like a great trying stand. If you want to mount it to your bench but make it removable you can put threaded inserts in your bench top and have threaded knobs to install and remove the stand.
Another great video! Having seen many of yours DYI videos, it would be very usefull if you could make one on how to build a home truing wheel stand ;) Regards.
I look at this tension meter. But I'm afraid of it is not well calibrated. And as I see the principle of working is opposite Park Tool tension meter where I don't use my hand force to measure. I need to use force for appling tension meter on the weel spoke.
Hello Oz, great to see this video, I bought exactly the same tools for my first wheel build. The tension meter is a copy of the DT Swiss tool as far as I can tell. The only downside of this design is that you have to learn to use it consistently i.e measure at the same spot on the spokes, hold it the same way not at an angle because it's very sensitive and will give different readings every time you measure if you are not careful, and the table provided is for round spokes only. Overall it's a very good tool to check spoke tension to have all spokes at the same tension. The truing stand is good but the way it is made i.e the arms holding the wheel slide in and out which means they are not as stable. You can tighten the wheel down and fix it fairly securely however if you are not careful it is possible to move the wheel unintentionally and then you have to reset your wheel and gauges or callipers. Also the callipers are not centered which means you will need a dishing tool in practice and you will be using one caliper arm only unless you center the calipers as with the park tool. I replaced the gauges with digital gauges, same as the tension meter and replaced the pointer with a roller. This is where this tool really shines, with this setup you can simultaneously check the wheel for roundness and side to side trueness. I could build my first wheel with a precision down to less than 0.2mm. I highly recommend using digital gauges , they are much more readable I would set them up i.e 5mm in , press zero then the gauges gives you a + or - readout side to side and up or down at the same time, super easy and convenient when building a wheel. I agree for a workshop this truing stand is not as robust as the park tool ts2 (which is fairly agricultural in comparison imo) but with some mods could be perfect for a home mechanic and it gives more precise readings than the ts2 and makes the wheel building experience easier and more enjoyable once you get the hang of it. Overall both tools are highly recommended for a home mechanic like myself, for professional use this would have to be modified or you would have to spend a lot of $$$ on a P&K Lie stand to get something better. Thanks for the vid Oz you are a treasure trove for the home mechanic out there.
@@horukuru just search for roller dial indicator on ebay or aliexpress, i use only one for the side to side truing, for roundness i use a big round flat pointer very useful, all have 2.5mm thread
The wheel truing stand looks very similar to what I have. I purchased mine from a local bicycle shop in San Francisco called Furgerson's Bike Shop. He was a machinist who operated a bike shop near my home. I purchased mine almost fifty years ago. Yes, 50 years ago.. I still have it today sitting in the original box since I don't use it very often . Watching the video brought back fond memories of the great people I've met through cycling, especially in my youth. I think the truing stand will last many lifetimes. Thank you.
Thanks for your review! I want to use this tension meter to build wheelset on steel blade (aero) spokes such as Sapim CX-Ray 0.9 x 2.2mm in the central section. But in their Conversion table there is no data for this kind of spokes, only round ones. What should be done in this case? Thanks
a question for anyone who owns the Tenybike truing stand - is it possible to calibrate the centre position of the main jaws? there doesn't seem to be an obvious adjustment (and I can see one of the comments below says that because they don't tend to be centered you just need to use one indicator at a time in practice) - but perhaps there's something I'm missing!? cheers
Could you make a Video on how to use the spoke tensiometer? I bought it and I'm confused, because the list in came with says, more deflection quals more tension. And I'm a little afraid of just having a go at it. Most info online is with the park tool, which has a different index.
I have been looking at both of these tools for some time. Good review. I think another tool is needed to calibrate spoke tension meter. I haven't found one anywhere.
I use a cheap digital hanging scale for that purpose, the accuracy ist good enough for the tension meter. Take a rectangular frame and use a threaded rod to bring a test spoke to the needed tension. I learned, that my parktool tension meter was not really accurate when I got it, it needed a calibration.
@@georglinde3910 +1 Exactly what I did as well. Scale doesn’t need to be perfectly accurate as long as it’s in normal acceptable range of +/- a few percent. By far the most important is equal tensioning, far more important than the absolute tension.
I would like to see an in depth look at wheel balancing. Not just road but heavy dh or enduro wheels. Maybe even a look into the effects out of balance has on the hubs as well. There have been a few people touch the subject. I recently had a few riders spin up the rear wheels on trail bikes and I've seen some severe cases of extreme oob on trail bikes.
@@stevenleffanue well i dont know but being out at the trail head testing peoples bikes. All of them vibrate badly. That has got to put a lot of stress on rear hubs. Idk just brainstorming. People put a lot of miles on these bikes. Also take a look at my other post about an external chain cleaner. Im trying to bring a device to market that is cheap, light and easy to use and clean.
External chain cleaner: Pop off chain from bike. Put in external 3d printed chain cleaning box. Add some spirits, close lid and hand crank for a minute or so. Completely clean and strip a chain. Take out let dry and add what ever lube you want. I would think individuals, bike shops, race teams would love something like that. Nothing on the market i have found like that.
Thanks OZ for this information and vid. The two products are really interesting and at a reasonable price. Unfortunately, shipment to France is near the price of the products (70 euros for the wheel stand). That means that a european product, less complete without gauges, can be more interesting : Rose, Parktool... Shipment to Australia is logically more affordable. But very nice products, indeed.
How does the spoke tension meter compare to the DT Swiss one? A fraction of the price... I'm torn between getting one of these Chinese digital knock offs or the Park Tool mechanical tension meter (which I've hears is also not that accurate...)
Do manufacturers have a minimum and maximum spoke tension for carbon wheels? I am worried if I over tighten a spoke that it will crack or break a carbon rim.
Hi, thanks for the vid, those tools look great. I've only started out building wheels and i was wondering if you had to recommend one tool to buy first, which would be better? the truing stand or a the tension meter? cheers!
You can get by without a tension meter by feeling and listening (plucking technique) to the spokes. A good trueing stand on the other hand saves a lot of time and aggravation. So yes a truing stand would be the priority. I only use a tension meter to verify what I already know.
Thank you for the video on the tools, have you had a chance to use the tensiometer? If so would it be a worthy purchase for home wheel builds? I’ve only ever guessed the tension of the spokes, that being said nobody has ever moaned about wheels I’ve built for them.
How do you like the stand now that you have been using it for a while? Are the arms stiff enough? Is it precise or sloppy? Are you using your Park or the TenyBike more? Can you remove/replace the wheel and have the dials go back to the same position? If you can get repeatability on the dials you no longer need a dishing gauge. You may want to cover that process on a future video. (watch the P&K Lie truing stand video).
Great video, I bought the tensioner after this video, however they do not seem to have a chart for bladed spokes, ala CX Ray. Anyone has any idea where to get one?
Buy a cheap digital hanging scale. Build a simple rectangular frame in which you on one side can mount the digital scale and on the other side a threaded bar with nuts. Have one of the spokes, or maybe buy one extra spoke and secure this in between. Now tighten the nut to get tension on the spoke. The scale will tell you how many kg of tension is on the spoke. Start somewhere meaningful, maybe around 60 kg. Once the scale shows 60kg you measure the deflection with your spoke tension meter. Increase tension to 65 kg and do this again. And so on and so forth. Really easy and you can make as many measurements as you like. Keep recording your measurements and you’ll have your own table made in no-time. Remember to make new measurements for each different type of spoke you are using. I made my own tables like this, also for the same CX ray spoke. But with a different tensiometer so useless for someone else
Nice . Trouble is , spoke tensions also vary with different rims & spoke arrangements. Some rims are reinforced at the spoke nipple area others are not. Too many combinations 🤔
@@stevenleffanue that is probably very true. But still I think you’ll get quite very close with above described method nevertheless. And more important than the absolute tension in the spokes is that all spokes are tensioned equally. An equally tensioned wheel will distribute the forces much better and be longer lasting. I think people should not overthink the tension too much as long as it’s within the rim and hub specified limits and equally tensioned. And better a little bit more than less tension…
Hello Oz, I'm a long time lurker first time posting a question if you don't mind? I'm working on a new build and have my choice of groupset narrowed down to sram force 22 vs chorus 11(both mechanical) My biggest concern is the functionality and reliability of the bottom bracket. I have researched a lot online on the ultra-torque system, and the drawback of wavy washer wearing out over time thus requiring the use of shims to compensate tolerance. I prefer Campagnolo's built quality, longevity and aesthetics. But with the sram I have the option of using wheels manufacturing's thread-together Press fit BB, which is basically fit it and forget it. What might you recommend?
@@stevenleffanue Oz, without a doubt the sram gxp crankset coupled with a proven wheels manufacturing BB is demonstrably better than ultra-torque, but to what degree is my question. Suppose we compare both groupsets head-to-head, would you choose the sram over chorus based on that merit alone?
Nice video and nice tools! I'm a big fan of tools as well! I was considering those tension meter as well to have something a bit more precise than the park tool one. It looks like the DT Swiss one but it costs almost 10 times less...and this got me thinking a bit. Probably the DT one is a bit overpriced but do you think one can really rely on this tension meter you got? Did you have the chance to compare it with another one that you probably already had in your tool set? Cheers!
@@paolocapozzi927 get a hanging scale that goes to ~250lbs. Attach the type of spoke you want to calibrate for. Attach gradations of weights to the bottom of the spoke and measure the deflection. Use this to make your own reference chart, or attempt to use the grub screw to calibrate it to their chart.
Hello, I would like to know if you would still recommend the truing stand? I'm looking for a new one right now, so I watched the video again. Because I remembered, that you reviewed this model, wich was presented to me by google. Thanks in advance and greetings
Can you check if there's a data port on the digital dial gauge? It should be somewhere next to the battery port. Can you check what type of port is it: spc, microusb?
@@stevenleffanue mini B? Ok, thanks. You know, you can source a special cable from China, which consists of the connection cables and a special box, which emulates a keyboard. When you press the button on the box, it immediately reads the current value and enters it as a text into any text editor or spreadsheet. You can also attach a foot switch and use your leg to rapidly register all the spokes' tension readings into a spreadsheet for later use. To identify the cable, you need to check which brand the dial is, but chances are it will work with the generic one as they are all made to same standard. It is a RS232 over USB.
@@stevenleffanue I just talked to a seller of similar tensiometer, he sent me photos of the port. There was a micro USB port, not mini USB. Are you sure yours comes with mini USB?
@@stevenleffanue yes, you can still get the cable and keyboard emulator box, which will read the current value and transfer it to the spreadsheet or any other text editor. I'm currently ordering one for myself.
I love the way the packaging for the dial gauges looks almost the same as Mityutoyo packaging and the gauges themselves look like Mitutoyo knock-offs. Ah, good old PRC. Still, I have seen and briefly used this stand in real life and the quality is reasonably good, not great and like you say it is lacking in stiffness somewhat but for the home gamer it is fine and it does look quite spectacular when new! Good to see you weren't "Neutered" by this purchase :-)
That is really fancy wheel truing stand you got there really high accuracy but i was wondering what is the purpose of that air fryer near your tool hanger wall? I think you should also give us a “how to use” air fryers video on that thing Maite
I would love to have something that i could take off my chain. Put in a box, add fluid and spin a few time to clean and strip out a chain. Been working on a cad design that is 3d printable. Anyone can use it. Has a drain port at bottom. Has a chain ring and external handle to spin it. Since everyone has quicklink chains. It should be able to strip a chain clean in 2 minutes with mineral spirits. Would anyone be interested in buying something like that? Will have a separator at the bottom to remove debris. Working on a few design changes to make it easy to clean.
AU $169.31 20%OFF | Professional Bicycle Wheel Truing Stand With Adjustment Rims Dial Indicator And Gauge Set MTB Road Bike Wheel Repair Tools a.aliexpress.com/_mquwzY8
I purchased this from AliExpress. But why didn't you purchase the Park Tool TS-2Di for you TS 2.2. wish I had the park one as it holds th wheel better I think.
Just a warning for you guys here: The new version of the ZTTO TC-02 is printed as "SPOK Tension Meter" and it has only 1 screw instead of 4 screws on the back block of the meter. I feel like driving a Fiat with a Toyota emblem.
For me spoke tension gauges are as useless as tits on a chicken, especially on ridged carbon wheels. I build wheels with a run out of 0.25mm dish, round & side to side. I judge the overall spoke tension by sheer experience as some spokes will need to be tensioned slightly different to achieve a near perfect round wheel with 0.25mm run out. If you use a tension gauge to try and get the spokes at an even tension to achieve a 0.25mm run out wheel is practically impossible.
I totally agree. When "correcting wheels", it's impossible the have even tension, for sure. Now if you build from scratch with good parts, you're nearly there but you're right. A carbon rim is maybe not having the exact same thickness and stiffness all around. Such as alloy rims where the junction is always harder.
I think you hit the nail on the head about it looking impressive, and unfortunately that's probably its biggest asset. I'd say the biggest single improvement they could make is removing the flex from the uprights, they're way too squirrely for me. Having a dedicated stand with DI's for a final accuracy check is a nice bonus, that's how I'm using it currently.
I find spoke tension is determined by wheel truing anyways so I just use feel and pluck and listen for pitch to get things close, then go from there. I've never used a tension gauge though they might be useful. Now - truing stand, definitely jealous! Building a wheel sitting in the bike frame has its limitations 😄
I got one of those stands just days ago.
The linear bearings for the arms for holding the hub was a bit sloppy for my liking so they had a bit too much play. I solved that by moving the 15mm rods further apart from each other at the ends but I also had to file the holes of the middle section a bit more elliptical and put shims forcing the 15mm rods further apart.
(Also had to change the zero for the two indicator arms by bringing it up to he hub holding arms and losening the screws just a little bit and tapping the plate holding the arms.)
Don't use the aluminium plate to check for up and down play just use the top of the plastic on the indicator arms!
Hey, I am looking to buy one of these in the next few weeks. How is it holding up for you?
I feel it's worth noting that 'conventional' use of dial indicators isn't to have them at their outer extent. Normally, you would move the indicator body in towards the work so that the needle rotates at least once round. Then, at that arbitrary point, you zero the outer ring. From there the indicator is able to show plus/minus deflections as the work-piece wobbles towards and away from the indicator body - the arm/point of the indicator remains in contact with the work-piece throughout. I say conventional because the common use of dial indicators is centring work in a lathe chuck (or similar along with height measurements on a surface plate). Most dial indicators are calibrated/certified for use in the centre portion of their travel. The outer extent is in some respects where they are least accurate (especially some digital versions).
The downside with many bike wheels is that the running surface for the dial indicator may not be that smooth (textured rim brake tracks on some carbon rims for example, or logo stickers on disc brake rims). As you note, the visual guide of simple caliper arms is usually the fastest option - the eye is just very good at seeing a small gap vary.
just my thought. always have some pretension..
Yeah would save a lot of time and get more precision if he used your method. This whole idea of spinning the wheel around and trying to get the indicator to barely touch at one spot is just wasting time.
That is the idea indeed. Using feeler gages is not the way to go about.
Grigor is correct. Really good instruments would have a zero button. Get a round or two on the dial, zero, and then go to work.
Thank you OZ for sharing your review for the true stand which i was looking for.
I love that tension gauge I might have to get one of those 😀
I used a similar spoke tensioner, made setup much easier. Interesting that sound tuning, pinging the spoke, once up to near full tensioner is equally telling! :-) The analogue dial is fine and no battery needed, or the corrosion that they often cause.
I just got this truing stand in the mail four days ago! I did need to center the calipers by aligning them to the legs. Easy to do by loosening the two bolts attaching them to the arm.
You provide so much wonderful information and the videos are well made. You seem like a great person. Keep it going!
14:30 You should use the plastic pointers to measure the vertical movement, you don't want to scrape your rims.
The micrometer should start with already some tension in it, then you glance the extremes and put your "0" roughly in the centre of the displacement. You should also check with a vernier that the distance from the side of the rim to the carrying arms is roughly the same and use it as the "0". I also measure the the opening of the carrying arms when inserting the wheel because it's an aluminium bar and it has more flex that the "U" shaped Park tool one.
I have the exact same tool and I've noticed that the supposed centre is a bit of so I don't use the plastic pointers as reference for fine tuning because it may put your dishing off, verify with a vernier.
Good suggestions.I use a seperate dishing tool.
@@stevenleffanue No need if you use this method, in the end (or occasionally) you can reverse the wheel to check any issue but I discarded it because it is true and symmetric everytime. One thing that I'll be adding is one roller tip to the lateral micrometer.
A good truing stand has a mechanism to ensure the alignment of the prongs before you start on the wheel. The bonus of this is that once calibrated, you don't need a dishing tool. SuperB has one, as does Unior. Park also used to do one but it's getting harder to find. All are basically a block of aluminium laser cut - you insert into the prongs and ensure everything lines up. Super-B has a great video explaining how it works.
Great video. Thank you so much!!!
Truing station looks amazing !!!
I use a small roller bearing at the tip of the dial, much better than grinding on the rims surface....
I attach my wheel to a wood lathe and shave off the high spots.
you must be running wood rims?
@@larstomasson9244 bamboo
Giga chad!
Always love watching an Oz Cycle video 👌
Many thanks, excellent presentation of up to date truing tools. The spirit of cycling is surely freedom and simplicity , and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in building perfectly true and tight wheels within the bike itself, using nothing more than a good fitting spoke key. That said, I feel there could be a market here for a particular type of truing device designed to work by attaching to your bike frame....come on manufacturers, you're missing a trick here! 🚴
I had such a tool that I bought here in Holland roughly 25 years ago, it was attached with a simple clamp with a knob that had a hard wire with a Presta valve cap as the feeler! I'll see if I can find it. On the other hand you can do as I have done in the past, when rebuilding a wheel while on the road with a new rim, my tools of choice was 3 popsicle sticks and 4 rubber bands, remove the CALIPER once the rim stansfer is complete reinstall the wheel with no tire then go at it from there.
Spoke tension meter looks like a quality piece of kit!
i have many spoke tensiometers. this one fails at the spring. use 2 zip ties to prevent the spring from creeping to have consistent reading. I made my own calibration testbed to spec and spoke for more accuracy. cheers
if you check both sides you can see if the rim is pinched or bent in another way. .18mm on the non-drive side, but can be allot more on the drive side. I've had a few issues with damaged new rims in the past.
Have had a Truing stand from the USA for over 30yrs. With the dials. 100th of an inch increments is good enough for me.
14:28 ouch, this awful sound. I suppose, you should use the side indicators for the radial adjustment (just move them under the rim), just as you do it on the parktool stand. That's why there are protective white caps to save your rim from getting scratched.
I like these "new" tools. I prefer frugal. I made a universal, adjustable wheel truing jig out of a broken spoke. It fits in my pocket. I true a dozen wheels a day. Free. No waiting. No shipping. No grease.
Please explain your setup. Spoke rubber banded to an inverted fork?
@@marshall2389 Nearly. It looks like the cyrilic letter "Б" or a stick figure of a giraffe looking backwards. The "head" is the spoke fastener (nipple/nut). It has a "neck." The "legs" and "body" of the giraffe are the rest of the spoke.
To make the Wheel Truing Fancy? Tool:
1. Measure from rim to stay.
2. Put a fastener on a spoke
3. Make 90 degrees bend at #1 distance from head to make the "neck"
4. At 70mm (2.75 in) from head, make 180 degress bend back towards "neck" to make the "front leg" (spoke should be doubled over onto itself).
5. At 45mm away from the "front foot" (up the "front leg") make a 90 degrees bend away from the "front leg" to make the "belly"
6. At 20mm (7/8 in) make a 90 degrees bend "down" to make a second "leg"
7. Perpendicular to the "front foot" make a 180 degrees bend "up" toward the "belly" to finish the "back leg"
8. Cut the remaining spoke off at the "belly.
9. Apply adhesive tape (masking tape is good - non-slip and 'gives') to both "legs" to hold your new WTF? tool on the stay
10. Adjust the fastener ("head") in/out as you would on any hundred-quid truing stand for rim trueness.
Let me know if I was unclear at any point.
iv had my eye on that truing stand one iv got is verry basic its served me well iv been looking into ether that one or a park tools one but couldent find anyone reviewing it so ty for the vid from uk
does the spoke meter come with a chart to show to KG settings as read from the meter ?
I would perhaps just use a couple of C-Clamps to fix the base to the workbench.
Oz does the tension tool give you measurements that need conversion or does it give you kgf no matter what type of spoke?
Just saw the video. Looks like a great trying stand. If you want to mount it to your bench but make it removable you can put threaded inserts in your bench top and have threaded knobs to install and remove the stand.
Good suggestion Ron , mite do that.
Another great video! Having seen many of yours DYI videos, it would be very usefull if you could make one on how to build a home truing wheel stand ;) Regards.
I look at this tension meter. But I'm afraid of it is not well calibrated. And as I see the principle of working is opposite Park Tool tension meter where I don't use my hand force to measure. I need to use force for appling tension meter on the weel spoke.
Gracias por difundir tus conocimientos.
Hello Oz, great to see this video, I bought exactly the same tools for my first wheel build. The tension meter is a copy of the DT Swiss tool as far as I can tell. The only downside of this design is that you have to learn to use it consistently i.e measure at the same spot on the spokes, hold it the same way not at an angle because it's very sensitive and will give different readings every time you measure if you are not careful, and the table provided is for round spokes only. Overall it's a very good tool to check spoke tension to have all spokes at the same tension. The truing stand is good but the way it is made i.e the arms holding the wheel slide in and out which means they are not as stable. You can tighten the wheel down and fix it fairly securely however if you are not careful it is possible to move the wheel unintentionally and then you have to reset your wheel and gauges or callipers. Also the callipers are not centered which means you will need a dishing tool in practice and you will be using one caliper arm only unless you center the calipers as with the park tool. I replaced the gauges with digital gauges, same as the tension meter and replaced the pointer with a roller. This is where this tool really shines, with this setup you can simultaneously check the wheel for roundness and side to side trueness. I could build my first wheel with a precision down to less than 0.2mm. I highly recommend using digital gauges , they are much more readable I would set them up i.e 5mm in , press zero then the gauges gives you a + or - readout side to side and up or down at the same time, super easy and convenient when building a wheel. I agree for a workshop this truing stand is not as robust as the park tool ts2 (which is fairly agricultural in comparison imo) but with some mods could be perfect for a home mechanic and it gives more precise readings than the ts2 and makes the wheel building experience easier and more enjoyable once you get the hang of it. Overall both tools are highly recommended for a home mechanic like myself, for professional use this would have to be modified or you would have to spend a lot of $$$ on a P&K Lie stand to get something better.
Thanks for the vid Oz you are a treasure trove for the home mechanic out there.
Would it be possible to send me the link of the digital gauges and the roller as a replacement for the pointer? :D
@@horukuru just search for roller dial indicator on ebay or aliexpress, i use only one for the side to side truing, for roundness i use a big round flat pointer very useful, all have 2.5mm thread
The wheel truing stand looks very similar to what I have. I purchased mine from a local bicycle shop in San Francisco called Furgerson's Bike Shop. He was a machinist who operated a bike shop near my home. I purchased mine almost fifty years ago. Yes, 50 years ago.. I still have it today sitting in the original box since I don't use it very often . Watching the video brought back fond memories of the great people I've met through cycling, especially in my youth. I think the truing stand will last many lifetimes.
Thank you.
Thanks for your review!
I want to use this tension meter to build wheelset on steel blade (aero) spokes such as Sapim CX-Ray 0.9 x 2.2mm in the central section.
But in their Conversion table there is no data for this kind of spokes, only round ones.
What should be done in this case? Thanks
Sapim may be able to email you their conversion table
Great video. When you say "always check threads and moving parts if they need grease or not", how do you tell? Thanks
Not sure what you ask Brad? If the thread is dry it more than likely reqiires a lubricant .
a question for anyone who owns the Tenybike truing stand - is it possible to calibrate the centre position of the main jaws? there doesn't seem to be an obvious adjustment (and I can see one of the comments below says that because they don't tend to be centered you just need to use one indicator at a time in practice) - but perhaps there's something I'm missing!? cheers
Correct , you true one side at a time. I don't think it is possible to completely centralise the centre piece.
Kool stuff!
Wiggle LifeLine Pro Mechanic Wheel Truing Stand is pretty good for less cash ;)
Could you make a Video on how to use the spoke tensiometer?
I bought it and I'm confused, because the list in came with says, more deflection quals more tension.
And I'm a little afraid of just having a go at it.
Most info online is with the park tool, which has a different index.
When you buy a spoke tension meter it will come with a conversion chart.
Correction on run out 0.25 ~ 0.4know as some rims are a little rough when getting round.
I have been looking at both of these tools for some time. Good review. I think another tool is needed to calibrate spoke tension meter. I haven't found one anywhere.
I use a cheap digital hanging scale for that purpose, the accuracy ist good enough for the tension meter. Take a rectangular frame and use a threaded rod to bring a test spoke to the needed tension. I learned, that my parktool tension meter was not really accurate when I got it, it needed a calibration.
@@georglinde3910 +1 Exactly what I did as well. Scale doesn’t need to be perfectly accurate as long as it’s in normal acceptable range of +/- a few percent. By far the most important is equal tensioning, far more important than the absolute tension.
I would like to see an in depth look at wheel balancing. Not just road but heavy dh or enduro wheels. Maybe even a look into the effects out of balance has on the hubs as well. There have been a few people touch the subject. I recently had a few riders spin up the rear wheels on trail bikes and I've seen some severe cases of extreme oob on trail bikes.
So you saying out of balance wheel impedes hub function?
@@stevenleffanue well i dont know but being out at the trail head testing peoples bikes. All of them vibrate badly. That has got to put a lot of stress on rear hubs.
Idk just brainstorming. People put a lot of miles on these bikes. Also take a look at my other post about an external chain cleaner. Im trying to bring a device to market that is cheap, light and easy to use and clean.
External chain cleaner:
Pop off chain from bike.
Put in external 3d printed chain cleaning box. Add some spirits, close lid and hand crank for a minute or so. Completely clean and strip a chain.
Take out let dry and add what ever lube you want. I would think individuals, bike shops, race teams would love something like that. Nothing on the market i have found like that.
@@Hawlkeye-e9p I just got one and it's just as you described :/ Is it yours?
Thanks OZ for this information and vid. The two products are really interesting and at a reasonable price. Unfortunately, shipment to France is near the price of the products (70 euros for the wheel stand). That means that a european product, less complete without gauges, can be more interesting : Rose, Parktool... Shipment to Australia is logically more affordable. But very nice products, indeed.
Wow! Yes , its cheap postage from China in Australia , often free.
How does the spoke tension meter compare to the DT Swiss one? A fraction of the price... I'm torn between getting one of these Chinese digital knock offs or the Park Tool mechanical tension meter (which I've hears is also not that accurate...)
No idea , I don't have DT Swiss one to compare it to sorry.
Do manufacturers have a minimum and maximum spoke tension for carbon wheels? I am worried if I over tighten a spoke that it will crack or break a carbon rim.
Yes you can request a spoke tension chart if you need. Carbon rims take high spoke tensions.
Hi, thanks for the vid, those tools look great. I've only started out building wheels and i was wondering if you had to recommend one tool to buy first, which would be better? the truing stand or a the tension meter? cheers!
I know many wheel builders who do not use a tension meter. You get used to the feel of the spokes and the fasteners.
Absolutely. Its more of a gimik.
Truing stand
You can get by without a tension meter by feeling and listening (plucking technique) to the spokes. A good trueing stand on the other hand saves a lot of time and aggravation. So yes a truing stand would be the priority. I only use a tension meter to verify what I already know.
@@slasher9883 thank you! Appreciate that
Make sure you buy your spring tension adjuster for your spoken tension adjuster
Does the wheel truing stand works with 29 mountain bikes tires on the wheel?
No
Thank you for the video on the tools, have you had a chance to use the tensiometer? If so would it be a worthy purchase for home wheel builds? I’ve only ever guessed the tension of the spokes, that being said nobody has ever moaned about wheels I’ve built for them.
Used it couple times but only to compare wheels. Certainly not necessary for homebuilders Lee .
@@stevenleffanue I know you’re right but I’m a sucker for tools, especially bike related tools.
Then just buy one...it will add to your building experience knowing how spoke tension feels with different rims and spokes.
@@stevenleffanue it’s on its way.
Nice. They look good hanging up on the tool board too 😁
is possible to use for a MTB 29" wheel without removing the tyre?
No. Tyre must be removed first
How do you like the stand now that you have been using it for a while? Are the arms stiff enough? Is it precise or sloppy? Are you using your Park or the TenyBike more? Can you remove/replace the wheel and have the dials go back to the same position? If you can get repeatability on the dials you no longer need a dishing gauge. You may want to cover that process on a future video. (watch the P&K Lie truing stand video).
Park for building and truing , Teny for checking top quality wheels and rotor correction. Park arms are stiffer by far.
Oz, I'm trying to build my own personal repair shop, do you consider buying the park tool product is worth the money? (for a personal use)
Nice. Most of Park tools are good but not all are cheap for starting out. "Super-B" are great tools for cheap price.
Hi have you ever done a do it yourself tension meter calibration tool?
No. There is a good diy on that somewhere on CZcams.
Great video, I bought the tensioner after this video, however they do not seem to have a chart for bladed spokes, ala CX Ray. Anyone has any idea where to get one?
Buy a cheap digital hanging scale. Build a simple rectangular frame in which you on one side can mount the digital scale and on the other side a threaded bar with nuts. Have one of the spokes, or maybe buy one extra spoke and secure this in between. Now tighten the nut to get tension on the spoke. The scale will tell you how many kg of tension is on the spoke. Start somewhere meaningful, maybe around 60 kg. Once the scale shows 60kg you measure the deflection with your spoke tension meter. Increase tension to 65 kg and do this again. And so on and so forth. Really easy and you can make as many measurements as you like. Keep recording your measurements and you’ll have your own table made in no-time. Remember to make new measurements for each different type of spoke you are using.
I made my own tables like this, also for the same CX ray spoke. But with a different tensiometer so useless for someone else
Nice . Trouble is , spoke tensions also vary with different rims & spoke arrangements. Some rims are reinforced at the spoke nipple area others are not. Too many combinations 🤔
@@stevenleffanue that is probably very true. But still I think you’ll get quite very close with above described method nevertheless. And more important than the absolute tension in the spokes is that all spokes are tensioned equally. An equally tensioned wheel will distribute the forces much better and be longer lasting. I think people should not overthink the tension too much as long as it’s within the rim and hub specified limits and equally tensioned. And better a little bit more than less tension…
Best thing to do with new tools: take them apart and loose some of the parts.🤣
Hello Oz, I'm a long time lurker first time posting a question if you don't mind? I'm working on a new build and have my choice of groupset narrowed down to sram force 22 vs chorus 11(both mechanical) My biggest concern is the functionality and reliability of the bottom bracket. I have researched a lot online on the ultra-torque system, and the drawback of wavy washer wearing out over time thus requiring the use of shims to compensate tolerance. I prefer Campagnolo's built quality, longevity and aesthetics. But with the sram I have the option of using wheels manufacturing's thread-together Press fit BB, which is basically fit it and forget it. What might you recommend?
Personslly I'd use the bb that comes with the groupo.
@@stevenleffanue Oz, without a doubt the sram gxp crankset coupled with a proven wheels manufacturing BB is demonstrably better than ultra-torque, but to what degree is my question. Suppose we compare both groupsets head-to-head, would you choose the sram over chorus based on that merit alone?
Sram because cassette is Shimano compatable and Sram parts are cheaper than Campy. Sram red if you can afford it
@@stevenleffanue Thank you so much!
Nice video and nice tools! I'm a big fan of tools as well!
I was considering those tension meter as well to have something a bit more precise than the park tool one. It looks like the DT Swiss one but it costs almost 10 times less...and this got me thinking a bit. Probably the DT one is a bit overpriced but do you think one can really rely on this tension meter you got? Did you have the chance to compare it with another one that you probably already had in your tool set? Cheers!
The accuracy of this tension meter is sufficient provided it is calibrated.
@@stevenleffanue how do you calibrate it? I guess you need to build a rig on purpose for it
@@paolocapozzi927 get a hanging scale that goes to ~250lbs. Attach the type of spoke you want to calibrate for. Attach gradations of weights to the bottom of the spoke and measure the deflection. Use this to make your own reference chart, or attempt to use the grub screw to calibrate it to their chart.
make a simple calibration stand, just google it, very easy to make one@@paolocapozzi927
Hello, I would like to know if you would still recommend the truing stand? I'm looking for a new one right now, so I watched the video again. Because I remembered, that you reviewed this model, wich was presented to me by google.
Thanks in advance and greetings
For truing wheels, Parktool is a stronger stand. The one I use is really just for checking
You bought the same stuff as I did 😀
Can you check if there's a data port on the digital dial gauge? It should be somewhere next to the battery port. Can you check what type of port is it: spc, microusb?
It's a type b
@@stevenleffanue mini B? Ok, thanks. You know, you can source a special cable from China, which consists of the connection cables and a special box, which emulates a keyboard. When you press the button on the box, it immediately reads the current value and enters it as a text into any text editor or spreadsheet. You can also attach a foot switch and use your leg to rapidly register all the spokes' tension readings into a spreadsheet for later use. To identify the cable, you need to check which brand the dial is, but chances are it will work with the generic one as they are all made to same standard. It is a RS232 over USB.
@@stevenleffanue I just talked to a seller of similar tensiometer, he sent me photos of the port. There was a micro USB port, not mini USB. Are you sure yours comes with mini USB?
Mine is a square , older style port....type b.
@@stevenleffanue yes, you can still get the cable and keyboard emulator box, which will read the current value and transfer it to the spreadsheet or any other text editor. I'm currently ordering one for myself.
I love the way the packaging for the dial gauges looks almost the same as Mityutoyo packaging and the gauges themselves look like Mitutoyo knock-offs. Ah, good old PRC. Still, I have seen and briefly used this stand in real life and the quality is reasonably good, not great and like you say it is lacking in stiffness somewhat but for the home gamer it is fine and it does look quite spectacular when new! Good to see you weren't "Neutered" by this purchase :-)
Is your truing stand worth the money after these years?
Which stand?
That is really fancy wheel truing stand you got there really high accuracy but i was wondering what is the purpose of that air fryer near your tool hanger wall? I think you should also give us a “how to use” air fryers video on that thing Maite
It's a slow cooker...used for waxing chains
A man’s gotta eat
What's the name of the truing stand please?
"Proffessional bicycle truing stand" on 'Aliexpress'
Does it fit the boost standard hubs? (148mm)
Width is fully adjustable , so , yes
I would love to have something that i could take off my chain. Put in a box, add fluid and spin a few time to clean and strip out a chain. Been working on a cad design that is 3d printable. Anyone can use it. Has a drain port at bottom. Has a chain ring and external handle to spin it.
Since everyone has quicklink chains.
It should be able to strip a chain clean in 2 minutes with mineral spirits. Would anyone be interested in buying something like that? Will have a separator at the bottom to remove debris. Working on a few design changes to make it easy to clean.
Do it and buyers will come! 😂🤘🏽
Do we need to calibrate this truing stand?
No , only the dials if you need to
@@stevenleffanue Do you mean the moving arms?
Dont need to calibrate ams
What is the name of this truing stand?
Available from Aliexpress
@@stevenleffanue Yes, I am aware, but what name should I type in there to get this?
AU $169.31 20%OFF | Professional Bicycle Wheel Truing Stand With Adjustment Rims Dial Indicator And Gauge Set MTB Road Bike Wheel Repair Tools
a.aliexpress.com/_mquwzY8
I purchased this from AliExpress. But why didn't you purchase the Park Tool TS-2Di for you TS 2.2. wish I had the park one as it holds th wheel better I think.
Nice. Doesnt do rotor tho?
Yep DT-3 but it's not a guage as such.
Yep DT-3 but it's not a guage as such.
With covid i think i prefer tools this point.
+- 0.025 mm. I can also set it up. You can set it up better, but it's too long to sit. Absolutely does not rub.
Just a warning for you guys here: The new version of the ZTTO TC-02 is printed as "SPOK Tension Meter" and it has only 1 screw instead of 4 screws on the back block of the meter. I feel like driving a Fiat with a Toyota emblem.
Link pls to the tools!!! Chears
Both from Aliexpress
Now that I have a track bike I have to use zip ties to true the wheels! Don't build enough wheels to justify all that.
I'm a big fan of your channel here in the states so since you don't like the truing stand will you gift it to me if I pay the shipping? I need one.
Haha , postage would cost as much as the stand itself.
@@stevenleffanue I hear ya but I had to ask :-). Great informative video.
For me spoke tension gauges are as useless as tits on a chicken, especially on ridged carbon wheels. I build wheels with a run out of 0.25mm dish, round & side to side. I judge the overall spoke tension by sheer experience as some spokes will need to be tensioned slightly different to achieve a near perfect round wheel with 0.25mm run out. If you use a tension gauge to try and get the spokes at an even tension to achieve a 0.25mm run out wheel is practically impossible.
I totally agree.
When "correcting wheels", it's impossible the have even tension, for sure.
Now if you build from scratch with good parts, you're nearly there but you're right. A carbon rim is maybe not having the exact same thickness and stiffness all around. Such as alloy rims where the junction is always harder.
I think you hit the nail on the head about it looking impressive, and unfortunately that's probably its biggest asset. I'd say the biggest single improvement they could make is removing the flex from the uprights, they're way too squirrely for me. Having a dedicated stand with DI's for a final accuracy check is a nice bonus, that's how I'm using it currently.
I find spoke tension is determined by wheel truing anyways so I just use feel and pluck and listen for pitch to get things close, then go from there. I've never used a tension gauge though they might be useful.
Now - truing stand, definitely jealous! Building a wheel sitting in the bike frame has its limitations 😄
The stronger the truing stand the better Johan.
Who 'thumbs down' these vids? Huh?? Why?
Because there are A-holes everywhere.
@@litesp Unfortunately the evidence seems to support your hypothesis....
its just old guys without their glasses , shaken hands, trying to hit like button and miss !!
@@trelosenario Are you here!!?? :-)
Promoting precision with cheap copy tools maybe
Been building wheels for thirty years and have never used a tension meter. You aren't a wheel builder if you need one.