Subtlety Levelling Explained Further (WoW Classic)
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- čas přidán 1. 07. 2024
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Follow-up video (04-10-19): • Video
I apologize for all you guys that have been waiting patiently for this, it actually took me a little longer to make than I originally thought. If I missed anything then please comment and I will get back to you.
If you would like any more guides/tutorials or whatever then comment what you want.
Regarding my comments on evasion: Trying to teach new rogues about overpower, everything is situational but a few people have already commented about this and I agree you should pop evasion but not every situation is black and white, it's hard to give clear cut advice when it comes to this game because circumstances are always different but I'm planning an advanced video in the future to cover this better and to patch up some inconsistencies in my explanation, evasion can save your life but depending on RNG can be your downfall too, it's like a double-edged sword but the easiest way I thought about explaining it to beginners was to just say not to pop it against them, which I realize isn't exactly the best advice I could give out when I think about it after the fact but like I said, not every situation is the same in this game, but at least it teaches the beginners about overpower, as I said I will definitely patch this explanation up in the future in more depth for further understanding.
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0:00 - Discussing Levelling Efficiently As Melee
3:14 - Discussing Talents & Showing Build Order
4:32 - Discussing What Happens If You Find A Sword
5:04 - Dagger Ambush Macro / Sword Hemo (Sinister Strike) Macro
5:45 - Explaining Poisons
6:18 - 2 Shotting A Mage With Level 1 Dagger
6:31 - Rotation Explained
7:37 - Fighting Warriors
8:20 - Fighting Warlocks
8:37 - Fighting Shadow Priests
8:58 - Fighting Other Rogues
9:14 - Fighting Hunters
9:42 - Things You Shouldn't Bother Training
10:33 - Dungeon Rotation
10:58 - Slight Lockpicking Talk
world of warcraft subtlety rogue, world of warcraft subtlety levelling, wow rogue sub levelling, wow rogue sub spec, wow rogue spec, wow rogue specs, wow classic rogue specs, wow rogue pvp, wow rogue levelling, classic rogue levelling, wow classic rogue levelling
#subtlety #wowclassic #classicwow - Hry
this guide is actually making the good point.. I did all the green quests and I also joined STV when I was 35~36
Man I've switched from combat to sub to assassination to sub and finally back to combat after your video last week. My gold suffered greatly but honestly trying out different builds have been really fun. Thanks for the enlightenment :D
I had a buddy that swore by this back in the day and those old school Tarren Mill /Southshore battles were very fun seeing him just now people over and almost never die unless he got focused
i like subtlety sooo much more and was enjoying it for leveling but thank you for this guide. can always learn something new
I actually specced slightly into sub with my build but only to get ghostly strike and it worked it pretty well. Also just generally made the gameplay more interesting because I had an extra ability.
There is an extra button in combat aswell after 5 point in parry cant remember name but thats the route i went to lvl, it hits as hard backstab and procs a lot, also only costs 10 energy
@@freddiet8639riposte
@@freddiet8639riposte, it’s rng on parry tho. But the proc is pretty good even if you dont have more then the +5% parry from talent.
Loving this Azamous, made a rogue currently at level 28, has been pretty good, hitting 450 ambush crits, also thanks for the macro it works really well, i just made a few adjustments so i can swap my main hand to my off hand and equip a sword on main hand to spam sinister strike.
Since i couldn't get a hold of prison shank to save my life, i had to buy of Talon of Vultros from the AH , 5 gs, is there another good dagger around this level that you know???
Absolutely love that you made a video that basically could classify us as twins. This spec in your video is 99% what I do while lvling in vanilla and now in classic. Stumbled on you video while bored at work. Cheers mate, glad someone is leading the community on rogue right.
Really appreciate comments like this. Glad to see other people found the spec even without my assistance, just shows we're on the same kind of 'wavelength' in regards to playstyle. Have a good one mate.
love this video, thanks for the option, it is nice to hear something other than the combat echo chamber.
I'm glad, you're welcome, thanks for commenting
instant like and sub. your build is amazingly fun and a shreds through content
Perfect
Nice video my man, I leveled as sub myself and it was amazing, just as fast as combat with improved gouge and backstabbing
holy frick as a brand new player to wow this was exactly what i was looking for. every other guide seems to assume youve been playing the game for over a decade. ty so much. i will be going through all of your vids and liking every single one of them. you da best
Great help sir! Thank you! Even a mouth breather like me can follow along!
This logic works awesome with a warrior.. stv at 30 is insane for the kurzen and medicine men.. but at 35.. sweeping strikes and cleave works wonders!!
I am loving leveling as sub!
You’re so right i have been questing in tanaris and farming ZF as a rogue lvl 52 and it has been a real help i xp from 46 to 53 and im at 410 gold i bought my devilsaur set at lvl 51
I'm sincerely and honestly glad that I could help you, it's nice to see.
How what ?
Definately going to respec to this today! Thanks for the awesome vid!
Love this spec, modified it slightly but largely following it. When I have world buffs active am sometimes 1 shotting cloth mobs my level! Awesome stuff.
Love this - thanks so much for posting ! Quickly subbed your channel for great content
Subbed to you my man. Really helpful videos. Im enjoying my Rogue so much and i'm already lvl 18! Also dont pay attention to haters and trolls because they want you to get mad! My advice is to just ignore it m8.
Will do, thank you for your support!
Thank you for the video Azamous!
Awesome vid, im glad to see im not the only one loving ambush spec for leveling/world pvp, its super fun blasting clothies and prep is kinda broken af xD
The only thing I kinda disagree with was the comment about evasion vs warriors. It can be a double edged sword with the warriors overpower but id much rather deal with that then having to tank a warrios mortal strike, whirlwind, hamstring, auto attack, disarm, and even execute. The other thing being that rouges generally have a decent amount of dodge anyway, meaning a good amount of the time a warrior is going to be hitting you with overpower even without using evasion. But obviously you dont always need evasion vs warriors if you manage to get a good opener or something like that, but rogues are super squishy vs the crazy physical damage of a warrior the best way to fight against them is stun lock and crippling poison kiting and restealthing
Great vid, I look forward to seeing more of your rogue content ^.^
I entirely agree about evasion, but it's hard to give clear cut advice especially when I'm trying to aim the video towards beginners, I'm glad you wrote your comment out because it has good points regarding evasion, if you don't crippling kite warriors then you'll be seeing the spirit healer, and thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed the video
I loved the subelty spec on my original vanilla account, it's worth using sharpening stones on daggers before poisons come about and even then main hand dagger + weapon damage enchant with a sharpening stone can often heavy crit stuff of similar level.
New to WoW and this was VERY helpful. Thanks
Love your guide Azamous, so excited to see you if you come play during the Road to rag on the classic Fresh :D
So if you are leveling a rogue I would recommend designating two zone. For example silverpine and barrens. Go to one and do the quests that are roughly the same level as you ie yellow quests. Get them done then go back to the other zone and now those quests will be green and you can absolutely blow through them.
No leveling guide in classic wow doesn't do zone hopping.
Bro best livlig guide ever! Played rogue from start back in 05 to now and still play rogue. And I always play as hemo. Respect my rogue bro
You’re right, I’m doing the same with my rogue, during vanilla I leveled as sub, and was going to lower quests, it’s faster to kill mobs, less time on healing my self.
I started doing this at 20 and I finding im leveling up way faster. Now I did a bunch of runs of DM to get me a few levels ahead of the quest I was doing. Sad, we Allies don't have a dungeon at 15 we can start doing like Horde has :/
But the best is one shotting opposite faction players drinking and eating at low health in STV
Coops lmao, I remember doing that in vanilla, next to camp nesing, I’d wait for people to duel then I’ll sprint and ambush, months later I realized they were rank 10 plus people dueling there, which made it hilarious, they didn’t kill me because of hugging the trees around and just going around them. Couldn’t spot me. Crazy days 😂
very similar to how i played my rogue in vanilla but i never used ghost strike, i was heavy pvp based though and use Prem, nice to see a video no ignoring Sub but clearly pointing out its uses and weakness
Sub is really underrated I leveled as sub back in vanilla and people made fun of me
But either way I always loved the style of sub
Thank you so much for this
Wish you create more guides like this. thank you.
i finally found a build that makes me start playing rogue
this specc is fun, i skilled it yesterday with my lvl 48. 😎👍
Wow that's something that I will try today, great f.ing video bro
Thank you greatly for your videos! Much appreciated thinking outside the box. Going along those lines, I wondered if anyone has tried a leveling build where you rush hemo (as here) but then, instead of going into the assassination tree, you go into the combat tree and pick up the 5% hit, riposte, and blade flurry. Any thoughts on this?
I love the way you speak like a true rogue in all aspects :D
I’ve always thought green quest were bad. Thanks for this
I didn't expect the guy who makes the funny videos about being a noob would have such an informative video i wish i'd discovered you years ago this is great
I would love a guide like this when TBC comes out
I'd delay everything by 2 levels and get Remorseless Attacks right away (or before lvl 15 at least) instead of lvl 40, you'll have it easier for a long ass time up to 40 where the 2 point delay will be well invested given the quicker fights up until then.
Great suggestion.
Was gonna mention this, I view remorseless attacks as a sort of sister skill to the priest's spirit tap. Just makes leveling so much smoother!
People always seems to make this recommendation. Remorseless attacks is a low tier talent choice. A single crit buff on a single sinister strike in a specific window after a kill IS NOT GOOD
@@thatsawesomelol You use it to crit ambush on a stealth opener...
Thanks for this helpful video. 👍🏻
Hello, i've been a fan of sub leveling since my first step on LK (at the release not classic version)
Got some questions : Why in your talent tree you don't go right away to take the remorsless spec in assassination (i can understand for malice) ? for me they seems to be really important to chain mob. Master of deception don't need to be maxed out ? Is backstab usable on mob ? usualy what happend is Gouge then backstab, but it seems not being consistant, since i didn't wait far in "strategy technique" maybe i'm missing something for backstab.
Ghostly strike is my love
Lvl 38 human combat sword spec here. Just respec'ed to sub after watching this vid. Also got my SM quest dagger just for this spec. Cheers mate. Thank you for the vid.
Thank you for taking the time to watch and listen.
i leveled using this build. it's a bit frustrating using hemo with daggers. i swapped to a standard prep/backstab/improved sprint/lethatlity build in the high 40s and it got better for both PVE and PVP. the 2% hit is big. as is the improved sap, and +30% backstab crit for pvp and dungeons. For solo leveling, SS is worth the 5 extra energy for the damage improvement over Hemo for me. Worth a shot if you're trying this and want a change of pace.
I thought green quests gave reduced exp!.... hum...well I going to change how I quest. Thank you.
1:21
😂😂😂😂
Thanks man it was a really good guide.
You are a god, this make levelling rogue soooooo much fun
Great guide mate, just about to hit 32, then switch over to sub!
Since classic servers startet becoming popular again I decided start a rogue. I stumbled upon this video and oh boy did it just make playing a lot more fun. I've leveled rogues plenty of times before in both vanilla and classic, but this is by far the most fun spec I've tried! Huge ambush crits and huge survivability. I don't play on hardcore but I honestly think I can count on one hand the amount of times I've died.
I know its an old video but I have one question: how do you spec for pvp when level 60? Same spec or do you have any modifications?
Should you maybe Macro ghostly strike with hemo? so whenever ghostly strike is available it will use it instead of hemo?
Hey mate great video.
For PvP, the Hemo spec is better using swords or daggers? Isnt Hemo more efficient using swords?
Thanks and keep these awesome vids coming ;-)
I think it's really based on preference, I use daggers and don't really bother using swords even to weapon swap, I just put the tip in for those that prefer to use swords. I weapon swap with daggers but people die so quick I haven't had much of a chance to utilize it. Thank you mate, I will :)
Is it a possibility to modify the spec to get improved sap? Could be handy for pvp and some pve occurrences
Sub'd! Keep up the great content.
good day Sir. I really like this spec for hardcore. for hardcore would you make any changes? TYVM!
So do you recomend we do Mining and Engineering as professions? And no Leatherwork and herbs?
@AzAmOuS would you be able to advice on Runes on this build in Season of discovery? i must say i am opretty bad at the game overall and this build was the most fun rogue i ever played! so even if you dont have time, thanks for this one, appriciate it!
I'm level 46 and I switched to your build yesterday. I gotta say I'm killing it way harder now and it's definitely way more fun! Also your videos have some pretty sick music. Do you create the tunes?
I don't make the music but I do plan on making my own beats in the future haha
that tank looks familiar
Thanks for the poisontip. My deadly poison fracks up the gouge. :)
question: are you using hemo or backstab in pvp? and in pve?
AzAMOuS,
Can I get your advice and your opinion on the talent tree in Lich King?
What are the changes or modifications to be made? If you can at least guide me I would be grateful. I want to level with the way you explain but for Lich King.
Hi love the content. I'm sub similar to your build lvl 33 really battling to use backstab efficiently, can't seem to be quick enough to use it and already waiting on energy build up . Would you maybe have some suggestions?
Thx dude you are awesome
The best part is when he said elitist scum bags I felt that xD
is it more fun to apply garrote and rupture and watch them bleed to death? or use ambush and bafkstab on them for fast kill?
nice vid, I like your attitude on people should just try it out for themselves.
I will spec into sub for ghostly strike and then go for riposte in combat and probably go all the was through to adrenaline rush on gurubashi private server that just launched.
Man i love your guide.
Subtlety Rogue is my favorite spec of all of em but when it comes to dungeons/raiding its really mediocre. I still do recommend using this spec to everyone for solo leveling, it will really make your solo journey easier.
it's not worth putting talent points into improved sap? it could be pretty good for PVP/leveling, or not?
Is hemo just a point builder? and the damage comes from Ambush and backstab? Should you be building 5 point kidneys and pumping out back stabs. Or just hemo spam 5 point evis ?
hello sir question. Is their a way to macro using BOTH my swords? I say this because their will be few times where I can't ambush or dont want to ambush like fighting mobs underwater like murlocs for instance.
THE WAIT IS FINALLY OVER, THANKS AZAM
Az just wondering, im currently a lvl 43 undead rogue on Skeram US, ive been combat swords with imp sprint and evasion talents so far. I have vanquisher's sword and blade of the omen currently and im melting mobs and doing okay in PvP but yeah my shadow priest friend beats me every single time we duel.
I've been on the cusp of switching to sub hemo daggers since I made the character but I feel like the two swords I have right now are too good switch out for some green daggers. Should I just say fuck it and do it? or maybe go hemo swords until I find some nice daggers?
Also, how does the macro work I thought you can't switch weapons while in combat?
@@tonykotlovski168 Hey man, those swords are pretty nasty, and considering you've got this far as swords without a struggle, I'd say you could keep doing what you're doing unless you really feel like swapping for the last remaining levels, you could go subtlety hemo swords using the spec I proposed with the weapon swap macros, an alternative to that is one where you could move the 3 points in Improved Ambush to Initiative, but if I'm being completely honest it makes very little difference and I recommend weapon swapping for ambush more than sinking points into Initiative as that would also make Remorseless Attacks redundant.
You cannot change armor in combat, but you can change weapons, I showed this at 5:20 after displaying the weapon swap macros. All it does is place the weapon you chose into your mainhand, and spams the desired ability, in this case the ambush macro puts a dagger in my main hand when I press it, so I can ambush right away, the same goes for the hemorrhage macro, as it puts a sword in my hand, you can do this easily yourself and I really recommend doing it to maximize your damage, subtlety is the best survivability spec and you will make the world hate you by being able to double vanish, double blind, double ghostly strike, etc.
It's like I said in the video, you really don't need good daggers to crit, that's why at 6:19 I showed a clip of me 2 shotting a mage with the Level 1 starting dagger, you can seriously just buy a dagger from the vendor or a really bad one from the AH, you just need to be able to use Ambush.
If you wanted to swap to the spec I proposed in the video, it would still work well with your swords, it would now just mean you have the potential ambush crit opener every time you open on someone. It's a pretty big advantage that a lot of rogues skip out on. If I missed anything or you have any more questions then reply to this and I'll get back to you. Thanks for watching and commenting.
@@Azamous When I try to use the macro, it equips my vanquishers sword onto my off-hand keeping my dagger in the main hand any ways to get around this?
@@tonykotlovski168 this is my fault for being lazy with the macros. Here's what will work for sure, I just tested it:
Hemo macro:
#showtooltip Hemorrhage
/equipslot 16 Vanquisher's Sword
/cast Hemorrhage
Ambush macro:
#showtooltip Ambush
/equipslot 16
/cast Ambush
If you need help with anything else, or if the macro doesn't work for whatever reason, just let me know.
AzAMOuS do you use any other macros? I use combat right now and wouldn’t mind a change. Don’t you need to swap dagger back after ambush? And hemo?
Yeah old viedo but hell .. i love looking for anything that can improve my rogue .
Subtlety since preTBC. Its the best for me. Just learn timing on your energy regen, use engineering and macros (got every single spell as macro)
Up to 25 level its like 4-5 hits kill and get only like 10% dmg thanks to dodge
(ambush>ghostly strike >gouge> backstab> eviscerate and gg next target)
For multiple targets use Target Dummy with stun granades and make distance while fighting main target. Also mouseover gouge offtargets.
I use main crippling poison , offhand instant . Later is even more fun with 3/3 sap, blind etc.
Thanks for this video!! I'd like to have this build, but I plan on doing mostly dungeons with my friends or PvPing while waiting for them or a group. Should I change anythung if I dont plan to do much solo leveling?
It's good for dungeons, just don't take the spec into raids. I'm going to make a short video discussing this tomorrow for everyone because I've had multiple naysayers turn up to my stream saying that the spec isn't good even though I was constantly at the top of the DPS meter using it.
DUDE! TY so damn much for answering so soon and I'm really happy to hear it will work :) I've auto attacked mobs to max level before in cata so Combat isn't my style. I need the pvp practice the most and I cant wait to try this out. Looking forward to the new vid!
hey AzAM, nice video! Why is popping evasion bad against pvp with warriors? thank you
It's bad because when you dodge a warrior they can use their overpower ability and kill you very fast.
Have you tried the hemo and blade furry build ?
I got remorseless attacks at 18, and it made a world of difference. I started slaying everything. It is definitely worth taking even if it means getting ghostly strikes at 21 or 22.
Do you have a discord group, would be easier for you answer questions...
Streaming in a bit on twitch.tv/azamous, I'll make a bot that links the discord on there too
Sub is so much fun to play. Much more than combat.
I play a variation of your build. Great point on the leveling zone issue. I got caught in that until 36 than I stopped that rat race attitude.
A ton of people really don't know how to level efficiently, I thought that this was common knowledge but it seems like it isn't, I'm glad I could help people because a ton of people give up during the levelling process because they find it too hard, but it's just cause the game doesn't explain itself to you like BFA does and you have to zone hop all the time to make the most out of quests. Thanks for commenting, it's good to read other peoples experiences.
Hello, thank you for your video.
I am French so I did not understand some things. ( sorry for the translation )
Why and when to use Hemo and Gosthly Strike? I do not understand ^^
use them as soon as you open
Thanks for the video Az
This is awesome
Great video :)
love your channel man, i swear by this build now. A question, in pvp, is backstab important? It costs quite a lot (60 energy) and wouldnt building combo points via hemo be more of a priority?
It depends how far from death they are, backstab is definitely worth it, you can open with ambush with a crit, then backstab crit, and a mage can die in two hits. If you have thistle tea (which you should have) they'll die even faster. Even better when you eventually get cold blood too. If they're close to death just build up points and evis :)
I have a lvl 55 enhancement shaman and bored as hell from playing it. This video made me create a rogue alt! And i'm going sub thx to u!
That's great to hear, I hope you have fun!
@Tautimaatti healing is boring
@Tautimaatti actually im playing as enh since my guild allows it. Lvling alt rogue at lvl 30 now too.
Hi, could pls tell me if a subtlety rogue is as effective as sword-combo in PVE (solo run in dungeons) ? I start to play a rogue on classic turtle wow and I'd like to be sure my efforts were not in vain. Because sub-rogue uses daggers only which are rare to find in the world. Thanks for your reply. And I consider PVE only
Finally someone understands that sub is just better for leveling combat can be usefull with sprint imp kick but I rather have 2 sprints tbh ty for clearing this up and
great video!
With a build like this what would be my best stat to focus on? agility?
amazing video, one of best guides ive seen on yt (im also a noob) but i gotta say i feel like first 5 talent points should go into Malice with any rouge build, since it gives you 100% increased crit chance on every single attk you do.. too good to skip imo
Cool guide, ty
could i swap dagger after ambush totaly and use 2 two handed sword after ambush instead ?
Just a small mistake I saw. At 3:30 your first talent point you put in leads you into level 10 not 11. So overall your level indicator is ahead by 1.
Does this build still work in TBC, if you start from scratch?
For everyone low level, I recommend using this build until you get Adrenaline Rush + Bladefury. I wish I did :(
0:07 Dude wtf that is exactly how my first rogue looked like! It was also my first character ever
As combat rogue undead first time I bought food was lvl30. Its so easy, I just stacked agility and mobs died in 2 crits
Nice video man! I'm playing NE rogue at classic and I'm 45lvl atm. Looking at guides before launch I decided to lvl as combat sword. It's efficient but very boring.. I used combat up to 38lvl. When I did full SM run with the quest I SKIPED picking sword of serenity from the reward (which almost every rogue got) and I decided to go sub hemo spec, so I chose the dagger reward (Black Menace)! Boy that was life! I spend right after I lvled my dagger skill, 4 hours ganking hordies in STV. It was glorious! One-shoting clothies was so much fun! After I resumed leveling I was trying to find a macro for switching weapons in order to use the Vanquisher's sword on hemo. I struggled at grinding because I was grinding mobs at my lvl or even higher. So when I reached 42lvl I respec back to sword combat.. It's damn efficient but I struggle at pvp, and there is ALOT of pvp in my server! One question, when I was sub spec, I had the combat talent for improved backstab, I think it's nice for pvp and for dungeons, what do u think? Also I think I'll stay combat because soon I'll get thrash blade from maraudon quest.
I also took Black Menace, great weapon. I'm happy to see you ganked for 4 hours straight, reminds me of the long nights I spend ganking people myself. Improved Backstab is great but if you get it, you can't get Cold Blood.
@@Azamous Probably a good option is to get improved backstab while leveling at around lvl 39 and when u reach 58lvl respec to get cold blood instead.
@@Azamous By the way, I wanted so much to buy Gut reaper from AH for 35g but I chose to respec combat... It's a slow dagger and it's crits are insane. If I saw your video earlier I'd say sub for sure.
@@Venakis1 I used Gut Ripper in a lot of my early PvP videos haha