The death of street photography
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- čas přidán 5. 07. 2024
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CHAPTERS
00:00 Remember when you fell in love with street photography
02:21 Street photography is facing an existential crisis
04:17 KEH is Awesome!
05:57 The second technology killing the decisive moment
09:59 Good news!
My thoughts on the global shutter for street photography: I think the fact that people often miss the "perfect" moment often results in far more interesting shots. If every street photo suddenly is "perfect", it will just be boring, and people will lose interest. It's alredy happening now, that's why photographers have started limiting themselves with shooting film, using rangefinders, old digicams, jpeg only etc. I think we'll be fine. Great video!
As a street and doc photographer, literally anything that captures you an authentic real life moment is street photography. Even spray and pray. I don't use it, but not because I think it devalues a moment. Moments last way longer than a frame a second. I just don't do it, because I'm absolutely not scrubbing through a Tb of images later. 😂
Honestly, if I built a robot that went about shooting images of the street like Google street view and it captured something awesome, that's still street photography in my eyes.
"Honestly, if I built a robot that went about shooting images of the street like Google street view and it captured something awesome, that's still street photography in my eyes.". It is, in that the street is being photographed. But you get no credit for it or satisfaction from it?
@@m.s.g1890 obviously. It would be all street photography bot and chance.
I love this definition.
Andrew, I decided to return to photography in my mostly self imposed retirement. I got caught up in all the new gear and toys available and that side tracked me, but when you said "scrolling through 100s before and after, the shot" gave me the light bulb moment to explain why I'm getting back into photography.
Who has the time, who enjoys scrolling through a gazillion photos for just the 'right' one, that's too much like scrolling social media. Where is the love and joy in that for your soul!
Seriously, I left photography for this very reason, staring at dozens of proofs for others, not myself. Burned out, doing it as a profession, for weddings, portrait and events, too many sessions with clients demanding it 'their' way or no pay. It took the art from my heart and as cheesy as that sounds, I think that's what you are trying to convey in this video.
I miss the gift of my Dark Room days, watching, hoping I got my shot, then the elation of saying, "YES!" as the image appears. Of course, I was disappointed if I missed it, but that's what gave me the impetus to go out again and again.
I have always, ALWAYS loved catching the sublime once in my lifetime moment for myself.
At first it was just for me, then it was to illicit in others the 'ooohs' and 'aahs' so I could turn it into $$$. That was a mistake, a mistake I see millions of people making daily on Social Media for content creation!
Now, I will decide 'If' I want to share a moment with others, that singular point along the timeline of my life. I'll chose the point and with whom.
The best part, I can put the camera down, to embrace the moment fully with all my senses, storing it in the original device, my memory, maybe never to be shared.
Thanks
Even though I don't do street photography, this video got me really thinking about what's important to me about photography, why I do photography and what I want out of the experience.
I really like what you say. Your channel stands out and above some many so-called and self-proclaimed photo masters who put no thought into their content. Your words are provocative and your photos back up your philosophies…and your philosophies back up your photos.
I feel in some ways like AI, along with a general weariness with social media, the "metaverse", etc., is making people crave *real* experiences more than ever. It's casting a pretty big spotlight on the fact that sitting in front of a computer or phone all day is not the same as being out in the world experiencing things. I recall someone pitching to me that with AI being able to crowdsource photos and video from around the world, eventually people won't have to travel anywhere - you can just experience it virtually in a sort of extreme composited Google Street View. While this may be a great resource for education and for people without the means to travel to those destinations, I felt revulsion at the thought. I've been to Kenya, the UK, Portugal, France, Iceland, Denmark, Germany, Sweden... there is no substitute for setting foot in a place and experiencing it first hand, seeing things in true stereoscopic vision with my own two eyes, smelling every scent. This in turn informs what I photograph and how I photograph it. The world is also changing all the time in a way AI can't accurately reflect until it's been fed the information. As someone in the software industry, I think AI has some interesting uses but I find it to be neither the world-ending force or ultimate human achievement that the two loudest camps declare it to be.
Well said, bravo! Additionally, AI is fed by real photographies, and I'm not sure what happens when it will start to feed itself by its own "creation". And soon enough the terms and conditions of using real-life material as "fodder" for AI training will be regulated.
100%
Enjoyed very much your thoughts. Especially the end where you talked about the act of photography. I get a lot of joy photographing even if I don't come back with any keepers.
By the way, ProCapture feature is not related to global shutter. Olympus/OM SYSTEM cameras has had that feature for years.
8:50 afaik A9III can shoot raw externally, and I thought of exactly this kind of workflow for street photography. Bottom line is that it is still YOU who choice the exact frame, and you cut through the unnecessary frames, but now it's just much more frames than before. Arguably it'll be harder than choosing from like hundreds of raw photos. I don't think it's cheating it's just different workflow. And people can still appreciate single shooters, film shooters etc.
Perfect summary! Thanks for the time you put into these videos.
Definitely brings up a good conversation. I don't consider images created by AI as photography or the person creating them a photographer. The result is an image but it isn't a photograph. The word photography means to draw with light, capturing photons to create an image. I see a lot of people calling themselves photographers on social media platforms but everything they post is generated by AI.
Certainly
I've been shooting classic street photography since 1999. I've gone through so many cameras and lenses. I have a ginormous catalog and led a street photography group in my city in Atlanta for many years and I hardly self-promote so no one knows my work. Here's the thing: those AI cheaters or global shutter shooters in the world do not affect me and never will because I shoot for myself, mostly. I disagree that the classic street genre is dead because it lives on in my work forever and in the work of others who still try to emulate the beauty of the works of Bresson and others. Joel Meyerowitz is one who comes to mind as a kindred spirit.
Well said
Wow, this is the most insightful and thought provoking video I've seen on CZcams I'm some time
Love this content and hope you keep making the good stuff 👊
It’s like secretly hiring Michelangelo to make a painting for you just to call it your own…
10:33 we have contact sheets tho, and sometimes they show the masters spent a whole roll (if not more) on one scene just to get that final image.
A relevant topic and well delivered Andrew. I think you nailed your introduction; it IS all about the emotion associated with the image and the experience of being out therefor me, and I recognize that this would be different to commercial photographers etc. My best images communicate my emotion or at least relationship with the subject at the time of making; very different to the photojournalistic approach of others as you point out. The social networks are by and large quite fickle; I always get more likes from a selfie than from an image that moves me (recognizing that I don’t have a community nor am i trying to build one). Keep up the great content, saludos Cleve
Exactly my point when I discuss new technologies both in my area and regarding photography. Tech enables us to further develop new ways to express our art. Will it change it? Certainly! It always does, but I’m willing to bet it won’t ever kill our drive to shot.
Very amazing and enlightening video on some sad truths of modern AI image processing.
However, just as you so eloquently pointed out, the human need to develop art from the street photography experience can never be replaced.
Your videos, in my opinion, really do open doors to me. Keep making your amazing videos. They are so human to me. Thank you for the experience my friend.
Thanks for your kind words!
Thanks for the warm words - it's not as bad as it seems :D
Cameras come, cameras go… for me, the memories made and experiences shared through my work as a photographer are far more important than any AI or camera developments. As a graphic designer by profession I use computers everyday. When I shoot I want a camera experience and not a computer experience, so it’s no surprise that I’ve taken several steps backward in my gear choices, notably a very battered Leica M9 and the OG Canon 5D Classic. No regrets.
You've hit the nail on the head. More than ever the and the are separable. Where once you needed a camera to create a photographic image regardless of how edited it was, now the camera is entirely optional.
As for me, I want real moments, in-opportune moments of awkwardness that comes with reality, and I couldn't care what anyone thinks of them. So I'm going to enjoy my film/instax/dslr cameras that bring me joy and keep me from getting sucked into the pursuit of visual perfection at the cost of reality or interrupting real life.
I'll leave the airbrushing/composites/HDR/AI to the unfortunate people stuck behind a computer screen straining for the illusive perfection under ever changing perceptions of beauty.
DUDE. Thank you for making this! This was incredible. Absolutely loved every minute of it!
Glad you enjoyed it!
@@AndrewGoodCamera been following your journey for a good long while, you do such a great job 💪
Thanks, my friend
Probably an unpopular opinion: Consumption of street photography is much less about the photos these days and much more about sharing in the experience of engaging in street photography.
And as I wrote that you hit the point. Haha
Andrew! Good lighting. Good audio. Good content. Thank you. Tim.
Thanks Tim!
Excellent presentation, Andrew. Thought provoking. However, change is inevitable and the new generations growing up and getting into photography now won't give the latest developments a second thought or worry about if they are cheating in making AI photos or extracting images using a rolling shutter. I still listen to a transistor radio in the morning with my breakfast but my grandkids came over recently and had no idea what that thing was sitting on my kitchen counter. They would also wonder what they were looking at seeing a picture of a photographer with his head under a blanket covering something sitting on top of a large tripod. All technologies are undergoing constant change. I loved and agree with your commentary but it really is one just for now by people of our time.
My honest opinion there is two sides to any art.
1. the side of the creator, the joy of doing art, of showing it to others and saying look what I made, this side is unaffected by the AI
2. the side of the consumer, the joy of seeing a striking image and the feelings things because of the picture, or needing that commercial piece of art to advertise your product, in my opinion this is only getting better with AI
So whats the bad news ... what connects 1 and 2 is money. We are currently able to make money from 2 for 1 ... the joy of creating art can be lucrative to a few individuals that chose to do this as their profession. This aspect of it will die.
But how is it any different than 100s of other professions that died at the altar of progress. You cant really be a professional seamstress sawing together pieces of fabric to create lovely shirts. That job is gone. But people that saw their own clothing for the joy of it still exist.
There is also countless other jobs that are just far less numerous. We used to need a huge amount of musicians for example but recording technology killed many of these jobs leaving only select few "popular" artists to thrive. But there is countless of people enjoying music as a hobby (they just don't get paid for it by others)
To summarize, I think consumers both commercial, and art concourses will benefit from AI generated art. The society in general will benefit as more and higher quality art becomes available to the masses. And yes a lot of folks will no longer be able to get payed for the art, but this is neither novel problem, nor a particularly sad one in my mind.
Is this what it felt like when photography was invented and some were worried that one day color photography would make painters obsolete?
On a brighter note: No AI could replace Mr. Goodcamera's enduring charm and authenticity.
😆 why thank you!
As always, thought provoking content.
Thanks! Glad to see you are still watching Paula. :)
I love this video! And you are 100% correct. I lean more on the side of the purest, I would never want to shoot video and then use a frame of that as a photo. But if I was a professional shooting at a news worthy protest for example a camera like the A9III would be a godsend. (On a side note I did buy the Nikon Zf...you're still to blame lol)
Thanks! And I'm happy you've found joy with the Nikon Zf. Go ahead and send me the invoice. ;)
Completelly agreed. I am convinced for 5+ years that classic street photography is already dead. On top of what you said, imagine global shutter on 360 camera capturing video 24/7 for you. Imagine you then ask AI to pick the best photos from that limitless footage. And you could even ask for different style of photography or train the AI whichever way you want. And then use AI to enhance that into whatever you want. For that reason any public presentation of any photographs will be more and more meaningless. But there is still meaning and it grows even stronger and stronger by all that. This meaning is mine own documentary of my life and my family life. These photos will always create emotions, albeit to only small group of people, but will always be special, in fact more and more special as time goes by.
Well said
I worked as a Sports photographer in the pre-automation days. Getting the decisive moment right was the difference from a great shot to an award winning shot. I was lucky I did get that award winning shot. Some buzz…
That AI is looking so good. Unbelievable.
I see no issue with AI. It simply means that from photographers we are shifting more toward painters, just using digital tools.
Actually- the “technology” which threatens street photography the most, is privacy legislation- laws protecting people from being photographed in plain public sight… A truly stupefying concept - rules applying to merely recording people in plain sight, the way they choose to present themselves to the world.
Good point
I wouldnt say i hate it or its cheating, but i dont like it. I really enjoy watching and reading about cameras, but have been a little disapointed that many of the videos i watch always mention topaz or some other de noise program to clean up images or photoshop the crap out of the thing. I am not a profrssinal, so speaking as just an enthusiast, i just capture whatever my camera gets, in the camera. What excites me is taking the ohoto and having that moment, not sitting in front of a computer running that image through various programs. I believe people should do what they want and if they enjoy theae sorts of programs, be my guest. However, ill reiterate, i dont like it. Great video man, i really appreciate you and hope you are well
Street photography "CZcams" style isn't what I would call street. Unfortunately shots of Petrol stations in the dust bowls of the mid west, abandoned buildings, street side discarded trash or out of focus backs of heads just don't cut it.
Ai replacing street photography or any style of photography doesn't worry me, and it's people / "creatives" passing Ai creations off as a real photograph.
Any photographer worth his / her salt won't be taken in by all of this, and will carry on practicing the art of real photography. Just look at all of the new analogue photographers out there who are falling in love with real photography.
I really need to make a video about street photographer gatekeepers. It's gatekeeping like you are promoting that really sower and take the simple joy out of just being on the streets and taking photos.
However many frames per second a camera can shoot it won't give you the 'eye' necessary to choose the right subject and angle to shoot it. It won't give you any more imagination, or feeling for the scene. A Sony a7iv for example, will already give you 10 frames per second, which is already plenty good enough to get the 'keeper' shot when someone is just about to reach the right spot. As for ai, I mean, people have been cheating for ever, with one of simplest ways being to simply stage the shot. And there's plenty of photoshopping going on. I like to shoot just one single frame and get in bang on. It's surprising how good you can get at it if you stick at it. And it's soooo satisfying. I never use 'motor drive' or whatever it's called, on my 'ancient' omd em5 mki.Cheers!
As far as I'm concerned, street photography is a style of photographic process as much as it is a genre of final photographs. For me, rangefinders are street cameras. I usually take out a Barnack-style Canon or my digital Leica M. I would never want to do street photography with an SLR or mirrorless style camera, so this "decisive moment" thing is just a part of the process for me. If I'm shooting film, I only have 36 shots.
Yea and no. Yes the times they’re a changin’. No because somebody still has to aim the camera, choose some viewpoint, sort through the zillion shots and pick something that resonates with their inner vision. Even HCB shot thousands of “ outtakes”. So what? For instance, that shot of the puddle jumper, did he stake out that spot and shoot jumpers galore, I bet. Do we care? Hell no! But we all know which pic I’m referring to. So, nothing’s dead yet….until machines decide to go out and shoot then scan zillions of shots and present them to???other machines? Until then I’m not worried.
I think you are correct about AI but I don't buy your arguments for a big change with the global shutter for reportage or street photography. Especially in street photography I would like to see a photo that was destroyed by electronic shutter / rolling shutter. There are already cameras out there that take photos before the shutter action. What's the difference now? If you don't see the rolling shutter effect, the existing cameras do exactly that, what you describe. None of those took over the world for street photography. I doubt that an event/wedding photographer would like to use the pre-burst function a lot. Now he comes home and has to sort through a couple of hundred photos. Using that technique the photographer gets zero money more for the job but has to sort through thousands of photos to find one that is slightly better. Does this make sense for a business? Not sure.
I think you'll find I agree with you, if you watch the conclusion of the video
Basic photography can already fake photos by adding and removing elements etc. I think in the case of an artistic image the only question is, does it appeal to to he viewer. If it does, how it was made does not matter. If an image is supposed to be real life then it matters. But if we can't judge whether the claim is true or not then photos simply become inadmissible in court
Maybe Leica's new verification system may work. We'll just have to wait
Yes, I am worried about AI and global shutter technology, and that’s why I’m glad I started my street photography before all this came about. People already know who I am and what my work is like, but somebody who just comes on the scene nowadays, is going to be under the microscope for legitimacy.
Where I do take issue with you is on only following people who are on CZcams or some kind of video channel talking about their photography. As an older photographer, I’m not comfortable being on video, even though I’m passionate about my work. I do teach what I know to other photographers that I meet, and I don’t think that makes me less legitimate as a street photographer, because I don’t have a CZcams channel! 🖖
I don't only follow photographers on CZcams. Four examples I gave are not on CZcams. My only point was that these days successful street photographers produce a lot more than just photos that substantiate their work.
@@AndrewGoodCamera
Some people have no interest in video or the limelight! After working 38 years in a factory because I couldn’t make enough money to live off of photography, I’ve been reborn in retirement! But when you’re 66 years old, it’s hard to keep up with the youngsters!
I think AI is good becouse this will increase the value of a person and the value of a real capture photo with all the meta data.
Andrew: maybe this is a judgment of my work, perhaps sickly not, but I can guaranty that there is not a single way that AI could ever confuse an image that I have made with not being from me. Maybe this pushes people to not create the creatable outside of their eyes, and it keeps us all honest? Maybe it enforces our humanness? A thought. You will never be able to punch in an image request for what comes through my eyes, in that moment, with that intent. Never. And more importantly, you the AI, will never have that affect on the viewer, because I connect, as a human. And we can tell the difference in our guts and soul. Or you just don't have a good eye (AI). Then you need to learn, and you can walk around like a fat fed robot.
That's definitely one perspective.
@@AndrewGoodCamera Maybe that is your life then?
What does this tell me? Not a ton, because the AI generated stuff just lacks a documentary quality. It’s not real at the truly detailed level. It’s not a “tell the difference” kind of thing-it’s what’s missing. The details that people are constantly trying to get rid of as “distracting.”
Street photo isn’t dead, it’s just pushed in a new, more documentary direction. More like paper LIFE magazines of the 40’s, less like Instagram Artiness. It’s still about the audacity to go into places you maybe shouldn’t or wouldn’t-but it’s not for the sake of the exotic or the otherworldly. It’s to get real dirt and reality into images that just can’t be synthesized believably.
People will know and care. So long as they look at these images on screens or prints bigger than a phone.
Regarding global shutter:
I find it’s incredibly rare for me to clog up my workflow with bursts etc. to me the biggest advantage, it’s a very big one, the flash sync. Not everyone will be comfortable strobing strangers on the street, but it’s about to get a whole lot more feasible
I have a gut feeling that amateur/ semi-pro photography is dead. Advent of smartphones and a whole generation raised in a world where 'taking a photo' = selfie or a random snap caught with a phone (no association with a need for a dedicated device AND SKILL), Advent of cheap DLSRs and now mirrorless cameras make 'everyone a photographer' so less and less people feel a need to hire an event photographer. Now product / stock photography will be generated by AI. So more and more market area pushes out a dedicated individual with a dedicated device and skillset to use it. What I decided to do is to settle for 'my last camera' as - for me - the hype around 'shiny new thing' is over.
So what was your last camera? And btw, I like your username.
@@AndrewGoodCamera I am actually disappointed with my recent choices. I love my x-pro1, the way the sensor renders colours is unparalleled. But of course the rest of the camera is lagging behind because of its age - autofocus, low-light performance, colour processing customisations etc...
I loved my x100f, but... a single lens = lack of options (I found myself using the wide-lens adapter 99% of the time, so obviously I'm not 35mm guy, I'm 28mm guy!).
So I was thinking about x-pro3 to be my next/last choice. But when it came to purchasing decision, I faced a dilemma - either I buy x-pro3 - already slowly ageing camera, or do I pay LESS and buy the latest and greatest (technologically) x-t5. Went with the latter and I am not happy with my choice. If It won't grow on me over time, I guess I'll have to let it go and hopefully x-pro4 will be my last? I am not a big OVF shooter (I prefer EVF with my customised color grading applied so I constantly see my final image in the viewfinder) but having that option came handy a number of times with my x100f. Also, only after returning to the DSLR-style ergonomics (centrally placed viewfinder) I realised how convenient it was for the camera to not obstruct my face.
So, I think my mind settled on the specs of my 'last camera' - I need a Fuji rangefinder-style body (OVF is very much appreciated but won't be a dealbreaker), minimalistic design (no video/hdr/panorama/whatever gizmo dials littering the body), customisable shooting modes so I can set up some fujixdaily recipes :). I am slowly settling on the lens choices as well. Already have 10-24/f4 for architecture / landscape, 56/1.2 for tighter portraits, those lenses stay, other will go to ebay. Now looking for some causal street/portrait lens and one massive telephoto for airshows / plane spotting (but I might just as well rent that one when needed tbh) and I think that will be it for me.
If you give a damn about AI’s impact on your street photography, then you should reflect why you like street photography, or any photography. Art should be done for art sake, without quantifiable reason, expectations, and financial reasons. You should do street photography because you love taking it. No other reason. This way, nothing will challenge or sow doubt on your photography.
right on!!!
Exactly
You killed it
and I don't see how "that genre of street" is dead? There are plenty of people out there (me included if I may) that shoot the streets that way.
Dead in the sense that more than just the photos and even contact sheets accompany the work of most modern street photographers. For street photographers who have careers doing street photography, they nearly all give access to much more of their lives and experience and their audience expects this. I argue that a successful career as a street photography now requires this.
thanks for explaining what you meant. That, I agree with @@AndrewGoodCamera
Some photographers are painters, simply using the tools of our time. But for documentary or news photos, and for street photography that aims to convey reality, AI is completely unethical.
Interesting, so are WE Smith or Ansel Adams unethical because they manipulate their prints to the nth degree and present them as news or nature, respectively? I’m not making an argument, it’s a never ending debate. How about a Renoir, Picasso, Modigliani, et Al, portrait, not AI but certainly subjective and sometimes presented as a portrait of a “real” human being?
Proponents of AI 'art' and other deskilled creative disciplines claim that 'skill' and 'experience' and even 'luck' are privileges and they say that now, everyone can share in the 'privilege' of those who dedicated their lives to becoming skilled. yes, I know. it's psychopathic and sadistic, but there are a lot of these people who don't care about you. It's also the nature of capitalism - creating products more people will buy, they don't care about preserving the skilled. It's also the nature of socialism - giving everyone the ability to do what only a few could do before. Adapt or die but these 'conveniences' reveal new skills, trends, and tastes because people desire special things, and mass produced things aren't. watch out.
Hey Andrew. I disagree on both as well to be honest. A.I. images are just a phase in my opinion. No real photographer is actually interested. As for having to go through lots of images to pick one is just tiresome in the long run. Even with 10fps it can be a pain to pick shots let alone A9iii crazy numbers. Sure it can happen rarely when you know you won't have the chance to try taking the shot again. Definitely not what actual street photographers do on a daily basis.
I don't blame you for not watching the whole video, But you're not actually disagreeing with me. You clearly haven't actually heard the sum total of my opinion on this.
@@AndrewGoodCamera I did watch the video. I should had just phrased it better :D I disagree on both points regarding killing the decisive moment (or street photography in general). I understand these 2 points are brought up a lot lately regarding street photography. Hence why I said "I disagree on both as well" meaning as well as you end up disagreeing with these 2 points. I blame my poor phrasing.
I don't care or worry about the global shutter. My only dislike with AI generated images, is if they are presented as "real". To me that is a lie. But photo editing software has for a long time enabled processed images to be not true.
As soon as you start talking about equipment, you're not really talking about photography anymore. A camera is a tool, nothing more. New cameras may give you greater capabilities that older ones, this may give you the ability to get images that may have been missed in the past, is this a bad thing? I don't think so. I shot on film for many years because that was all we had. I would push Tri-X to 1600 to get night shots, today all of my cameras I set to auto ISO 1600 and they all can shoot at way higher iso's with nothing like the loss of quality you got with Tri-X pushed to 1600. Has this made me a better or worse photographer, I don't think so, I do get shots at night I would have never have gotten in the past.
Has street photography died? No. Will it ever die? No. Will it change? Yes, definitely! I think was Ansel Adams who said something like " the most important piece of equipment is 8 inches behind the camera". Cameras don't matter and someone will alway be predicting the death of some art form. Keep shooting, that's all that matters.
Well by definition ai generated images are not a photographic image, they are figments of someones imagination. Image yes, photograph no.