Revisiting the Types: ISTJ
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- čas přidán 20. 08. 2024
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Original ISTJ video: • The Sixteen Types: ISTJ
Table of Contents
General Sketch: 0:56
Dominant Si: 3:02
Auxiliary Te: 10:34
Tertiary Fi: 14:04
Inferior Ne: 17:15
Type Relations: 20:20
Sources: 22:29
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Thank you for this video. I am an ENFP married to an ISTJ. This is the most accurate depiction I’ve heard on CZcams. It seems most people don’t want to understand ISTJ, so they keep promoting these really shallow misguided stereotypes. I completely agree with the wild, often self deprecating, sense of humor. Few people can make me laugh like my ISTJ.
This is the first time that I'm hearing the ISTJ spoken about in such a positive light. I've always tested as a INTJ but there was something about Si that always interested me. Maybe I'm one of the many ISTJ that are mistyped as an INTJ. Perhaps this will be a nice journey for self actualization for me, or maybe it will reinforce what I already know. Regardless I want to thank you for this video. It was really well done and very informative.
Any updates? I felt exactly the same way.
I think the same. Although i know i am INTJ but i still have a huge respect for ISTJs out there.
@@arty7542 Sorry for the rather late reply. I've kind of somewhat distanced myself from MBTI since I disliked the rather religious zealotry that I seen in various communities. While I do see some truth to what is said, and still occasionally return to the subject. In regards to my type I'm definitely an ISTJ through and through. I have a lot of difficulty understanding abstract thoughts without any concrete evidence to back it up. This is very obvious when talking to a friend that has a rather..... interesting philosophical outlook on life. While I can engage in long form discussion with him he tends to lose me when he goes too far into his ideology, and since his ideology lacks any concrete standing in my mind I'll either sit there confused, or I'll push back on his assertions. I'm speaking rather vaguely about the subject since some things he talks about are rather of a personal, and sometimes taboo nature & I value his friendship, and rather not put his personal business on display for the world to see. He can do that on his own.
Another thing that led me to my conclusion of being an ISTJ is extroverted intuition, or more specifically being in the grip of it. I'm not an imaginative person by any means, but when stressed I do tend to focus very heavily on the worse case scenarios. Without a concrete focus to keep me grounded I become lost constantly going from worse case scenario to scenario. Not sure if I described that perfectly, but that's just an example I can come up with on top of my head.
At the end of the day everyone's experiences are different. Life shapes us in different ways. Just because you have two people who are ISTJs doesn't mean they're going to be the same in anyway.
You have painted an accurate picture of my husband an absolute istj. He is so funny, so smart, relentless, completely reliable and just a rock of a man.
And you have just described my boyfriend ♡ future husband dare I say, given that he is so loyal and ready to move forward even though he's only 24
I have finally found my correct personality type, it's ISTJ and this clip answered lots of questions, no wonder I was mistakenly typed as INFP, or even ENFP. Now I know why I am always gathering informations, and why my notepad full of written down informations and observations about the world around, I have always opted for practical products with proven brands, my taste is mild and risk taking is not my area, thanks
i might carry a notepad but I lose it.
@@monabiehl6213 you can buy trackers for pretty cheap. Plus some are only like a dollar fifty so they're easy to replace.
personalityjunkie.com/03/judging-perceiving-ijs-ips/
How could you ever have been confused with ENFP?
@@dontbeadogsbody3564 Exactly. The two are VERY different....especially the T vs. F.
This is the best description of an ISTJ that I've ever heard. I've been looking for something that captures the twinkle and explains it for so long. Thank you.
“. . . it [Fi] gives the impression to the close observer that the ISTJ sometimes even secretly wants to be an INFP.”
As an ISTJ I think this about myself. How I wish I could experience my Fi-Ne like they do.
Me too, it’s like the inner child in me wants to be an I/E NFP
I'm an infp with an istj husband. What do you wish that you could experience? Why do you secretly want to be an infp?
"like a sea captain used to being in dangerous storms." Great description. This video has the best explanation of Si that I have ever seen! Your visuals in the videos are also great, keep up the great work.
I’ve surveyed a lot of resources discussing ISTJs, and that was by far the most accurate description I’ve ever come across. Wow. Thank you so much.
My boyfriend is ISTJ and I am INFP. And that description, of "a sea captain used to be in a storm" is exactly what I needed to hear to get him. This image consolidated my intuitions. I always said he was the anchor to my kite. Recently I had strong winds and stormy events and of course he was there, at my side, putting words and directions to get us to port. I love him.
That shit was so good that you have to do more.
My brother is an ISTJ and I can say you did a beautiful breakdown of exactly how I would describe my brother. The pessimistic optimism is always so funny and the spontaneous Ne is surprising like a present, then the stubbornness kicks in....
And I'm glad you've supplanted Socionics' positive to negative scale of type relations with a more realistic familiar-unfamiliar scale.
+John Barnes I agree. Some people don't feel bad, per se (that's more up to things like maturity, mental health, being comfortable being who they are and the like), but just alien sometimes.
Another interesting angle to examine might be dosage - that is, some people you can tolerate being around a lot before they start wearing you down, some people are enjoyable in short bursts but start being draining relatively quickly. Looking at whether type relates to any of that would be fascinating, I think.
+Nate Claussen My formula was to place more weight on the judgement axis -- so the types within the same 'quadra' would recognize each other well, then the quadra with the differing perceiving axis, then the differing judgement axis, and then the quadra with both differing. The most different type would, in this conception, be the one whose dominant function is the same kind as the other's repressed function (INFJ dominant Ni with repressed Se, so I decided the ENFP, with dominant Ne, would be most different). Obviously, this is up for debate -- some might argue that the ESTJ is more alien to the INFJ, but its a starting point.
+Michael Pierce This part of the video went by pretty quick so I imagine you'll get loads of questions about it. For example, what made you decide to put more weight on the judgment axis?
+Michael Pierce I like the method also, but my feeling is that you've placed a lot of weight on a type's approach and not as much on their goal.
What I mean by that is, from my personal experience, when an Xe type meets and Xi type and vice versa (like say Ne and Ni), the response usually is something like "well, their heart is in the right place, but maybe they're doing it wrong." There's often some sense of camaraderie, as if they move in the same direction, but their approaches serve to compliment each other. Like two people who start in a city and meet in another city, but one travels by plane while the other travels by boat.
Meanwhile, when Xy and X'y meet (like Ti and Fi), there tends to be a similar approach but applied to different ends. Something like, "well, I appreciate the way he conducts himself, but maybe he's missing the important part." I think there is more friction here, as each will say "the world needs these kinds of people I guess, but I am not one of them." Think two solo sailors, but one is headed for the Bahamas and the other is headed for Antarctica.
And lastly, when dominant judging types meet dominant perceiving types, I think that is also a source of unfamiliarity, because the two are trying to get very different things out of the world. Even sister types like ENFJ and INFJ, who take the same approach and understand each other quite well can still feel unfamiliarity here. Imagine two people cooking a meal, but one is doing it because they enjoy cooking, and the other because they enjoy eating. Or to keep it about travel, imagine two people go on a boat ride, but one goes because they enjoy the journey, but the other goes because they enjoy the destination.
So for ENFP and INFJ, they indeed have very opposite approaches. But since they are both Intuitive Feelers they have fairly similar goals, and I think this makes them more familiar to each other; they meet in the same city. Less familiar and with more friction I think would be INFJ and ISTJ. Those two both sail, but they sail towards opposite ends of the globe.
But at least everybody in the preceeding paragraph agreed they wanted to travel. Between the INFJ and the INFP, they might end up in the same city, but one took a plane and enjoyed the journey and the other took a boat and enjoyed the destination. And in my opinion the worst, between INFJ and ESTJ, one sails to Antarctica and enjoys the journey, while the other sails to the Bahamas and enjoys the destination.
(And for completeness, when Xe and X'i meet (the opposite ends of the axes, like Se and Ni) they'll tend to recognize the approach well, and just think that the other is wrong. They can look at the same thing, interpret it the same way, and one will think "why would anybody want to do this?" while the other thinks "why would anybody NOT want to do this?" This is more like matter and anti-matter annihilating each other, it just ends up being a fight.)
Well, I hope I didn't get too carried away with the travel metaphor...I'll just ride the subway, thanks.
FromBehindTheBoard I think you've made an excellent point, and I've actually been wondering if ENFP is the best choice. Normally I would be inclined like you to say 'ESTJ' -- but I need to think about it more.
This is great. I love the comparison of the ISTJ and INFP. I've always conceptualized the ENTP as a sort of upside down ESFJ, so seeing how this observation can be generalized is particularly cool.
+John Barnes Nardi says that in his brain scans (somewhat flimsy as they are) people show predominantly the patterns of their primary functions - I'd show a lot of the "flow" pattern from Ni, your brain would have a lot of the christmas tree pattern that's characteristic of Ne, and the same pattern would show up, but less often, in an INP type.
The interesting thing is that people show the tertiary-inferior pattern just as Michael outlined it - an ENTP would sometimes show ESFJ-like traits, an INTJ would appear like an ISFP (which matches up splendidly with Nietzsche's division of the INTJ concsciousness into an Apollonian and Dionysian part), an ISTJ like an INFP, an INFJ like an ISTP, and so on.
Where it gets even more interesting is that the pattern is reciprocal - an ISTJ, using Si-Te-Fi-Ne has a little INFP inside him, but if we look at the INFP's Fi-Ne-Si-Te stack, we see a little ISTJ. Curious that it mirrors out that well.
+Komatik +John Barnes That is *fascinating* -- I've heard a bit about that and it makes me really happy there's actually some preliminary evidence for the function axis idea; I've come to see the ENTP and ESFJ as very related too, but only more recently when I started working on the theories behind these videos. Awesome you've found the same thing!
@@MichaelPiercePhilosophy Why does the formula to compare these apparent similar types work the way it does? It's basically the sistertype of the dual type. But why that one? I get that they share functions and introversion, but are opposite overwise?
One of my favorite things about your videos is that even though this is supposed to be about ISTJs, your explanations are so versatile and insightful that you naturally learn so much about other types and typology as a whole. That being said, what's next??
+Anh Ngo Thank you, I really appreciate that -- glad I could be of service! I am planning to do the INFP next: I plan to follow a pattern of 'flipping' the type upside-down and doing their 'shadow' right after them.
+Michael Pierce wouldn't the 'flip' of istj be enfp? istj= si te fi ne, enfp= ne fi te si?
+Andrew T People tend to represent the unconscious side tertiary-first, it's the stronger function, after all. So ISTJ Si-Te-Fi-Ne => Fi-Ne => wee little inner INFP. With the INFP Fi-Ne-Si-Te => Si-Te => ISTJ. The reciprocity is intriguing, IMO.
+Komatik Oh I see. So the 'unconscious side' involves the third and fourth functions. Then what are we to make of 5 thru 8? Are they even more deeply unconscious? And does their order mirror the first four? (istj= Si Te Fi Ne Se Ti Fe Ni)?
Andrew T You don't really need to assume a stack of eight functions to explain people.
I mean isn't it four functions in attitudes in the first place? Isn't one key part of Jung's original definition differentiation? If the inferior is already very unconscious and not that differentiated, does it even make sense to speak of something even more muddled as a function?
More than those technicalities, functions are not tools we need to do something - they're differentiations, preferences, predilections, ingrained go-to habits for doing certain things in certain ways unless we take effort not to.
It's not like the types or functions are straitjackets that determine us - we can consciously choose to act "contrary to type" and produce things typical of other functions.
Basically, what I'm getting at is "why do you assume eight functions?"
Because the function-attitudes are typically talked of as eight separate things, because you see the functions as tools needed to do tasks typically associated with them, because you want a beautiful, symmetrical, theory where people feel complete and four just doesn't feel enough? Because you've read Beebe or Socionics or just absorbed it from the background noise on forums?
Really enjoying your approach Michael. It's so refreshing to hear someone with prescience, who can articulate the invaluable contribution of all personality types, within a community.
I really appreciate the Walking analogy. It does a great job of illustrating the unconscious yet conscious control of the dominant function. Also how screwing up with the dominant function can feel like tripping over your own feet.
Btw, movie "The Age of Adaline" is very ISTJ, there are two main ISTJ characters and whole storytelling is like from another world (i am an INTJ)
Brilliant as always, Mr. Pierce.
Wow, my husband, who has been a corporate leader of financial systems for decades, heavily involved with data analytics, and to stay extremely calm as he leads other analysts and programmers, has been very difficult for me to figure out on type because he does have this whimsical, passionate, INFP-ish side to him. You have just cleared it up for me. He's tested as an ISTJ but his INFP-ness has made me question the tests until now. BTW, 50% of the time I have tested as an INFP and the other 50% as an INFJ. I think I could possibly be an INFP that thinks she is an INFJ as so many INFP's do think, but it's interesting to think that my hubby is so attracted to what I see as my weaknesses, and it's also interesting that if I am INFP we also share the same four functions just in a different order. We work together very well. I've got to watch more of your videos. My husband definitely fits the sea captain description. He slept peacefully when the eye of Hurrican Irma was going right over us, while I sat up and listened to the weather radio all night long.
Augustus Caesar was an INTJ. Through and through. his public persona was definitely an ISTJ. But reading his history he was a master at manipulation. All the details of wars were handled by his right hand man marcus agrippa. He was a very future oriented person living in an extremely traditional patriarchal society. Of course he will support traditions, behind the scenes. I hope this helps. Great video.
This is the most fascinating analysis of a personality you have made and I have heard. Thanks!
Thank you Michael. I really enjoy your videos. I'm looking forward to watching the rest of them. Thank you for putting a list of the functions in the description. I started to watch the video and I thought "I wish could see a list of the functions as I watch the video" I clicked on the description and there it was.
I am ISTJ and very happy to be so. Major introvert too. The rest is true.
I'm an ISTJ...a tax accountant. My great grandfather was a ship Captain. After a shipwreck, he got is crew back home months later. At one point, I told a coworker, "if you are in a foxhole, you want to be with me".
The opposing personality you describe was dominant in me whilst in my prime. Sigh. I am glad to have found your channel. Thankyou
I'm so tired of feeling like I don't fit into any type. I get typed sometimes as ISTJ but it seems to fit my mom so much more than it fits me. This description fits somewhat better than most. Thanks.
very accurate! and even you saw the golden heart! Im married to one as ENFP and its very difficult and very very good same time. Bc opposites but also same homebase.
Also he is very funny and often lazy too, while the stereotype is way too stiff, strict, boring. They are all that but they have two sides. Just like ENFP has a serious side and can accomplish stuff while the stereotype is way too fun, irresponsible.
And hes the master of hobbies. Every some yrs he finds a new one and then learns every detail until perfection.
Something I've noticed since I started studying Socionics is that people are generally of the same attitude in regards to the first two functions; in this sense, the tertiary and inferior become the opposite attitude.
For ISTJ, this would look something like:
Si-Ti-Fe-Se
The third function is normally posed as being of the opposite attitude as the second -- however, in reality, it's closer to "I want my Ti to be Te, so I can interact with the world" (which is why they're not, say, ESTJs, or ENTJs, who are just naturally like that and can't help it, lol).
The tertiary, in a similar sense, is, in reality, *easier* to achieve the opposite attitude of, because, by definition, the first two functions are stronger, so in the case of the ISTJ, they can come off as cheerful, but also robotic, repetitive, and given to an almost Ti-dominant like "discomfort" when conventions are broken. This is because of the exacting nature of Si, which compares things to other aspects of real time Se events, and then matches them to what it sees as applicable situations. Over time, this leads to less and less experimentation (Ne), and more and more of an ear for "consistency" in the case of social interactions -- things must be said and done the same way, or else be deemed a "party popper" by the ISTJ for not following specific party_guidelines.gather(), because your behavior doesn't match their rigid comparison of past events and acceptable guidelines, and because you've broken Ti protocol.
Sometimes it's hard to tell my INFP girlfriend apart from an ISTJ..
By far my favourite explanation of my type, good gob, sir!
I'm ISTJ I work hard, people hate me. But I don't care, my work eval is always great as I stayed on top of things, Promotion after promotions is my reality. I'm in control of my life. I am also a Capricorn like Bezos, which make me an earth element knowing to be the most hard working zodiac that is great with money.
Astrology is deep once you get to it, that's why so many of us are extremely vigilant of giving our energy, power and resources to anyone.
22:04 I found this super interesting! My girlfriend is an enfp and I was really surprised to find out we were opposite types, yet understand each other so well
I wouldn't say ISTJs and ENFPs are complete opposites. More like opposite ends of the same scale. Both rely on Ne-Te-Si-Fi but to different degree.
that's great. It really goes to stereotype-breaking deep areas. Looking forward for the next video
The robot... is back. Great video. Looking forward to ENTJ, INTJ and ESTP. Those were my three types based off a random cognitive function test.
+Orion Atlantai Have you tried 25quiz.com? None of the tests are great, but that one seems to be the best IMO.
XOmniverse
John's test? Yes. That particular test gives you percentages of your likely type from highest to lowest? For that test I got INTJ and ENTJ. I can't remember the last ones, but I do remember those two being the first two results.
Ah, fabulous.
I'm looking forward to the rest of these :)
Funny, when do you use the metaphor of rugged but cheerful sea Captain because not only is that what I always wanted to be like, but that’s what I feel like I’ve become
Love your work man. keep it up!
I'm an ENTP that doesnt get along with ISTJs because I perceive them as too stubborn. This was helpful in understanding them better. Thank you.
The few entp I know are the most stubborn people I know. But maybe they are on the unhealthy side of the spectrum
I am actually torn between ISTJ and INFP, strangely enough. There are things i identify with within both types. I believe that I am feeling-dominant, but identify heavily with Si as well. I feel
That I want to be secure and organized and stress myself out about those those things. It is hard for me to stay organized and I actually feel pretty insecure. My Te is blunt and untactful and my Ne is neglected except to aid in drawing conclusions due to being in a stage of life where I cannot really have any hobbies or do anything that I enjoy doing....I feel like I have hardly any imagination anymore.
I can relate. Maybe an unhealthy INFP?
I’m not going to lie to you.
If you’re torn between INFP and ISTJ, then you must an unhealthy mix of either.
Unhealthy ISTJ or unhealthy INFP.
It’s a confusion that shouldn’t happen.
Although, I’d reckon you’re an INFP though.
That strong Ne you have is most likely the culprit concerning why you’re so torn
it begins!
I'm an ENFP and I love your videos
My wife is an ISTJ, it's rough. Your videos have helped me :)
Thank you for such an insightful analysis.
I am an ISTJ who has a ENFP friend.
It seems obvious but in my experience {I am an ISTJ-A} I cannot hardly comprehend the ENFP personality; everything about an ENFP is alien to me, no matter the functions. I work with four ENFP's and it is a challenge every day {thankfully I have my own separate corner to do my work alone}.
ESTP's, on the other hand, I love. The "ST" core is, for me, an absolute must if I am to get along or truly understand someone. ESTP's Extroversion combined with the ST core is truly impressive when seen, and the "Perceiving/Prospecting" function, while at times being highly difficult to deal with as a Judger, is amazing to watch in action when swift comprehension of something is needed. Two of my favourite well-known people in the world are ESTP's {comedian/actor Bill Burr and, ironically given Burr's inclusion here and his opinion of the latter, presidential candidate Donald Trump}.
Likely the hardest thing to deal with when speaking of ESTP's is their overall trouble with long-term commitment.
About the chart, you mentioned that it is not about types getting along but, I've found that I can get along and chat most easily with ENFPs.
When I put something forward, they can explain it back to me in their own terms, and it is very refreshing. I think they allow me to use my shadow functions somehow and deep down we can understand each other quite well.
There's this ESFP guy at the office. I've noticed that while I can't get along that well with him, he seems to get along very well with ISFJ males.
I think same would apply to ISTJ and ESTP in that they are actually each others" shadow versions so deep down they can feel kinship. ISTJ has a sleeping ESTP on the inside (which rears its head from time to time) and ESTP vice-versa.
It's like looking at your reflection in a mirror.
+yeghor I'm an ISFJ male and my best friend for 20 years is ESFP so maybe there is something to it. I find that we help each other grow in ways that are challenging but not overwhelming.
I love these "mirror" relations !! They are the most interesting and inspiring, I always feel some kind of magic spark I can not find in any other type relation. Especially when both persons are well developed and psychically healthy, if not, from my experience, they will very easily misunderstand and dismiss each other and their opinions and approaches. Simply because they work exactly the other way around.
I generally don't get along with ESFPs too. I think it depends if they're very far along the ESFP spectrum or not.
This world is destructive and out of control and full of waste and nonsense. No wonder istj have been undervalued in the face of irrational and hurtful and disloyal standards. I wish I had known my father. He was an istj. A statue of solid, precise, respectful ground. He looked like these people too. A very respectful look. Ideas kill people. Idealism kills people. Personal standards that others can't ever satisfy, kill people. I've been ruined by my mother, by chaos, disloyalty, expectations, emotions, ideas, and especially an out of control, materialistic, nonsense, egotistical, idea filled, wasteful, disrespectful, greedy, disgusting world. I don't want any part of it or of whoever I've been even, anymore. Risks=distruction ideas=distruction IN the end, we all die. But, istj hold tight while they watch the other fools go down without dignity because they made their own demise.
Stoic philosophy embodies the ISTJ ideals very well.
Amazing!
I'm not familliar with the MTBI system but undoubtedly I'm amazed!
Thanks so much.. now I understand why I fit in the more logical as well as the more emotional/sensing (whatever that mtbi word is).
Now I completely understand 🙂😁
I was of the impression that the ISTJ and ESTP are a golden pair
An ex friend of mine I’m pretty sure is ESTP. We were very different but complemented each other very well. He was always scheming and had the seeds for great ideas. I was always the one to make sure the plan was “full proof”, and o would even be able to use his seed to elaborate and make the scheme even more grandiose. He also brought out my Ne. However, there were problems, like I felt I wasn’t heard and I would be more a listener and follower than have equal footing
I wonder how other ISTJs think about outdoor activities and camping, I thrive on order and established rules as well, and on being able to operate within those systems. Out in nature, i find myself without familiar reference points, and hence I have never been into camping, outdoor activities etc
Hi Michael.. Just watched your CZcams on site. Excellent. You explained well. Your examples are spot on Good going. Alfred
you make the best type videos!
Might it be more accurate to say that ISTJs have a shadow ENFP lurking in them, as opposed to INFP (since ENFP is their exact inverse)?
+Mark Kemp That's a very good point, and I thought about that. I think one could certainly make that case, however, I think that the way in which the less conscious Fi+Ne manifests reflects the degree to which they are less conscious -- in other words, I shouldn't have said in this video that INFPs are an ISTJ 'upside-down', so much as...well some other word. The point is I think for all intents and purposes the ISTJ ends up manifesting themselves in a way more reminiscent of an INFP than an ENFP, because the Fi resurfaces more readily than the Ne. That's my belief right now, anyway.
This is fantastic
Thanks for a great video lecture,but it was a bit too technical and one tends to get lost at some places especialy for those who are well-versed in what fe and ne mean.
Thank you
Nice visual reference to To The Moon!
Sometimes I'm on the fence about being either I S/N TJ, now i'm sure I'm not an ISTJ, thank you
+flamingmuffin666 What pushed you over the edge, specifically?
love the music!
I don't understand why ISTJ is polar opposite of ESTP. ISTJ= SI TE FI NE (SE TI FE NI) so wouldn't the opposite be all the functions listed in reverse, and therefore INFJ= NI FE TI SE (NE FI TE SI)??
+Andrew T I suppose "mirrored type" would be a better description.
INFJ and ENFP do get along bc humanistic ideals but everything clashes also bc upside down for each, how the other sees things, also the different paces clash. I have a friend I love dearly but it is not working, we ate just not in sync. To me it’s frustrating, to her idk.
ISTJ and ESTP same: same fields of interest and methods then upside down.
these types appreciate each other but they function too differently.
it is bc of same club, STs, NFs.
in my opinion the most far away for ISTJ is ENFP, their polr is loud in the other type. For ENFP it is ISTP. But even that works. For me the ISFP is difficult and idk why but they have a different Fi blocked with Se and it feels just wrong together with polr Ne.
While ESFP works better bc we are both EPs.
the socionics intertype relations are really helpful for understanding all this more.
My mom thinks I'm the biggest pessimist in the world and it frustrates me thoroughly. I know the world is a dark place and quite frankly I'd like to trek through it without being blinded by the nice things, as much as I may enjoy them.
Samuel L Jackson's character "Preston Packard" in the movie "Kong" seems like a great example of this type.
So Caesar wasn't an ENTJ?
Also, do you consider the tertiary function completely unconscious? I've heard varying opinions on this, ranging from completely conscious to conscious but just barely to completely unconscious like the inferior function.
My takeaway from Socionics is that any relationship is doomed to collapse if it is based solely on the polarity of type.
+Chris Paquette Your take from socionics should be that it tries too hard and places too much value on theoretical "shoulds", symmetry and formulation ;)
+Komatik In Soviet Russia, personality types as you!
+Komatik oooooooooohhhhh snap. I feel like you're going to appreciate my next video.
John Barnes We'll see. ^^
When will it be out?
peter thiel is a Entj :) it's very clear for me. there is a video of him and gary kasparov. it's a very typical entj/intj interaction. i would know. and i agree on the humor part. my father is an istj. check out a comedian/piano player: victor borge. a good example.
At 1.75 speed Rhapsody in Blue sounds like the clarinetist is on cocaine.
Fellow ISTJ's what careers are best suited for us? Ive worked in sales and hated it
I am an ISTJ as well. And I'm struggling to find a job that keeps my interest. Usually a doctor, pilot, accountant, management etc. Where processes and procedures have to be followed works good for ISTJ.
www.trade-schools.net/articles/best-jobs-for-introverts.asp#social
14:35 Is this a good graphic to visualize which functions are our top two versus our second two? I'm confident in my top four functions and being very introverted, but I don't recognize much priority between the functions, like mine are neither strong nor weak and leveled out. So I often wonder: Fi Ne then Si Te for INFP or Si Te then Fi Ne for ISTJ? The graphic at this part of the video shows a lot of something else I've wondered: if you're primary world is your inner world, does that make your when-no-one's-looking thoughts and behaviors your more true personality, or is it the one that gets you through uncomfortable, unfamiliar situations? This graphic makes me wonder if I lean more ISTJ, because despite how vivid my Fi Ne world is, it is ultimately my personal, fantasy life. Meanwhile Si Te is exhibited in my behavior around others and new environments.
Either way, I'm relatively too creative compared to ISTJ descriptions and people in ISTJ groups and too grounded compared to INFP descriptions and people in INFP groups. I'm even a science student that loves too many subjects to specialize and an adventure fantasy writer and nature artist--seemingly borrowing from the two personalities.
Would you say that an abstract form of the sea captain metaphor applies to INTJs? Where the ISTJ confidently navigates a literal storm, the INTJ navigates something like the intellectual or cultural storm?
+XOmniverse I'm definitely going to explore that in the INTJ video, but I honestly couldn't say right now. I mean, I don't see anything wrong with such a comparison and think its useful, I just don't know what metaphor I'll decide upon for the INTJ video. Specifically though, I think its more a matter of the ISTJ *weathering* through a storm of ever changing opinions and information, while the INTJ is more often *blasting* their way through a storm of inconveniences and obstacles to their ultimate goal or vision, whether those obstacles are intellectual or cultural or perhaps even literal. The difference is this curious reversal where the ISTJ's storm comes from intuitive capriciousness and changeableness, whereas the INTJ's storm comes from sensation-based obtuseness and refusal to change.
+Michael Pierce So in a way it's more about Se vs Ne than Si vs Ni. That makes sense.
+Michael Pierce I thoroughly enjoy your videos! Any idea of which type you plan on revisiting next?
+DiNozzo431 Never mind, looked through the other comments and found you already answered this! My bad.
ISTP's are the best!
Good god this is amazing
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This type relation diagram (with Translating-Operationalizing, Examining-Conjecturing axes) is fascinating--could you please post the source?
+elliot42 Thanks -- I made it myself. I just posted it here: subjectobjectmichaelpierce.blogspot.com/p/diagrams-and.html
Incredible insights Peirce, i love the video. i have a few points that i must question. first, i thought you said the ESTJ is the type that the infjs gets along with worst. i find this true, its that the sixth function of any type is the function that they identify with the least.
injfs>>Te, Intjs>>Fe Infps>>Se and so forth.
You also said an Enfp is more like an infj than an estp. I am incredibly interested in were you got the insights at the end of the video from. but more important than both of those, i want to know, are you going to do a revision of all types?
Thanks!1
+Matuvo Namiikaze Yay! I'm glad you liked it! Thank you!
Now, I've been torn actually. I do believe that INFJs and ESTJs tend to have the greatest conflict (as predicted by Socionics). The chart was meant to talk about the greatest alienation, however, whether or not the types get along well. Hence, the ENFP and INFJ can get along great and even find an odd mirroring of each other at times, but in general they are very alien to each other as far as functions go, simply because the one's dominant function is the other's inferior, so they represent consciously what is least conscious in the other. But some may contend that Ne isn't really that unfamiliar to Ni as they're both intuitive, and rather, Te would be more unfamiliar to the INFJ. I don't really have an answer for that yet, I'm afraid, but I am thinking about it. Suffice it to say that they are both, in terms of functions, rather alien to the INFJ's processes.
I'm not sure where I said that ENFPs are more similar to INFJs than ESTPs...perhaps because the ENFP mirrors the same kind of functions as the INFJ (N, F, T, S) while the ESTP reverses it. But the function axes are completely flipped between INFJs and ENFPs. In any case, the end part of the video was entirely my theorizing from function axes and somewhat arbitrary distinctions, e.g. deciding that an inferior/dominant swap makes types far more different to each other.
I do indeed plan to revisit all of the types! INFP is coming, hopefully, this Saturday.
Michael Pierce
Yes!! so glad you are doing them all again :)
and thanks for the explanation, however wouldn't all types that dominate with extroverted perception be less like the infj? enfps are just like the shadows of infjs; same function, opposite way of using it.
ty^^
Great video. OT, but can you remind me the name of the song you played in the intro? I adore that music piece, but can't for the life of me remember the name of it. Thanks!
+emptyboxcars Rhapsody in Blue; glad you liked the video!
Does the accounting of plain facts include specific assets and liabilities which would be in balance? Minus owners equity of course.
Very, very good video. If you look at Jeff Bezos' rocket, you might conclude that Freud provides a better explanation of why he built it than Jung ever will.
18:57 That t-shirt
this is made for me lol.
ISTJs are the unsung heroes of society. P.S. Jeff Bezos is an INTP
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIVE NEW VIDEOS! つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
+DominaceMK It's dangerous to go alone, take this.
()==[:::::::::::::>
I found this excellent overall though I'm not so sure about the very end about familiarity. istjs being familiar with enfj more than estp? just going off the function stack well I suppose they both have the opposite functions but se si ni si ti te fe te fe fi se fi ni ne ti ne suppose it's up to speculation which is more unfamiliar at least enfjs are likely to be more orderly. but estps have the same functionality like se for the si ni for the ne ti for the te. I'd love to know why the estp is more alien note I'm an infj with an istj step father.
Yeah, I've actually discontinued using the "familiarity chart" in my Revisiting videos -- I think its not really as helpful as I'd envisioned it to be. (wouldn't be possible without you guys letting me know, of course)
And thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it! I appreciate the support!
Other than the socionics part it was a good video
so basically Si is safety
How do you deal with an ISTJ with undeveloped Fi?
images are to fast for no NJ type so for very lot's of us.
Please revisit intp. It's a long time coming.
Your voice reminds me of Mr. Rogers😄
From my opinion most of those famous istjs are not istjs...
+Maximiliano Roldán Why? Because they're actually smart people who achieve things as all too many people tend to assume? Do you have any concrete disagreements with typings, arguments as to why they wouldn't be?
Komatik I have a very successful ISTJ friend, i just find that the way they find success is more traditional, jeff bezos seems a natural ISTJ but Peter Thiel
is in my opinion intuitive.
Komatik well INTPs, INTJs, ENTPs, INFJs, arent brilliant for no reason
Is anyone else picking on a whistle with every other word spoken?
What song did you use in the beginning.
He used "Rhapsody in Blue"
Thanks
can you do a ENTJ one please
Could Bezos rather be an ENTP inventor?
www.referenceforbusiness.com/businesses/A-F/Bezos-Jeff.html
Hi Mr. Pierce. Is it possible to see the video script? I am not a native English speaker and do not understand some words. Thanks.
+Elvis Gabriel The script will likely soon be posted on CelebrityTypes or the Open Journal of Jungian Typology, but in case it takes a little while, I will send you the script via CZcams message -- let me know if you get it or if that's not a good way to send it.
+Elvis Gabriel I'll hopefully get that to you within the next 24 hours
+Michael Pierce That will be great, thanks a lot!
+Elvis Gabriel I am so, so sorry -- I am going to get that script over to you right now
+Elvis Gabriel Um...k -- so I'm not able to post it in a message to your channel; would you mind if I use your email address? Once again, so very sorry that I am 24 hours late with this.
when are you continueing with the "revisiting types"?
+alex mercer I will hopefully be out with the INFP video tomorrow. :)
thanks keep up the good work
Abcd
So does that mean the INTJs have an ISFP side to them?
+jellybutterpeanut1 Indeed! More on that in the INTJ video, of course. But yes, that's how I understand it.
what do you feel is the best way to determine type
+josh gonzalez Well, for now my answer is to determine the function axes, as described in my videos both in 'season 1' and 'season 2'. But that's obviously easier said than done. I do like Ben David's method of, once a person has narrowed themselves down to a few probable types, asking them what they think of certain other types opposed to their functions. For instance, if someone isn't sure if they're INFP or INFJ, Ben David would ask what they think of ESTPs vs. ESTJs. The INFP will find themselves rather more annoyed with ESTPs, while the INFJ is the opposite. Wherever the greater, sharper irritation falls.
thank you very much, im In the ntj vs ntp rut
+josh gonzalez I'm constantly surprised how it's possible to fall into that rut given how different the two types are in practice - then again, you'd need a friend to calibrate yourself against. The surface is very similar, but over time there's just an incredible number of smaller but intractable differences.
What makes you think you're an NTP or NTJ?
it actually me I was trying to type a friend I know my type
Ah. What is he/she like, then?
😍
Michael, what´s your enneagram type?
+John Andersson I have found that I identify very well with 5w4 (sometimes called the 'iconoclast').
+Michael Pierce Thanks for your answer! I'm a 3w4 if you're asking
You need to clean that noise man