BMW N54 | Single Turbo or Twin Turbo Upgrade?
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- čas přidán 22. 12. 2022
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We are converting our TT N54 into a ST N54. Make sure to follow along in the process! • BMW N54 Single Turbo C...
In this video, Zach goes over N54 upgraded turbo options. Being our go-to BMW guy, Zach is very knowledgeable on this topic. A common topic in the BMW N54 community: Single or Twin Turbo upgrades? He goes over the pros and cons between N54 upgraded twin turbos and a single turbo such as cost, performance potential, reliability and more. We have two in-depth turbo upgrade guides for the single and twin turbo, so make sure to check those out below.
BMW Single Turbo Upgrade Guide: bmwtuning.co/n54-single-turbo...
BMW Twin Turbo Upgrade Guide: bmwtuning.co/bmw-n54-upgraded...
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01:39 - BMW N54 Turbo Upgrade Cost
05:02 - N54 Single Turbo Upgrade Pros
10:27 - N54 Twin Turbo Upgrade Pros
13:18 - N54 Single Turbo Upgrade Cons
14:18 - N54 Twin Turbo Upgrade Cons
16:02 - BMW N54 Turbo Upgrade. What is the Best Route for You? - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Before upgrading turbo set ups. New injectors. New coils. Water pump and thermostat. Gaskets all round. Plugs. Uprate the valve cover and pcv setup. Once you spent the 5k to 7k on getting this ready for higher boost you can start to think about spending a good 1500 to 2k on fuel upgrades. Fit new turbos or a single with a good custom map. And start saving up for an lsd and uprated driveshafts. Now your a good 20k into a build. Now if you wish to push your builds to next level your looking at aftermarket ecu. And the only option out there for Di and pi is syvecs. Don't let this put you off. I love my n54 but not my daily
Adam - Thanks for the valuable insight here. We couldn’t agree more! We have two N54s in the garage and are converting our 135 into a ST in the near future. Love them both.
Water pump and thermo, huh.
Did mine for way cheaper. 535_i_drive on 19t's e40 tune fbo. Yes did new injectors, vanos, boost, wp & thermo, mosselman oil thermostat, b58 coils, mfactory lsd. Got the car for $6,500 originally. 540whp on 19lbs stock lpfp too (535i has stronger lpfp than a 3 series)
Grizz - Thanks for sharing your experience!
Do maintanance ------ Injectors, coils, plugs, gaskets etc. Then buy LSD preferably inside of M LSD... good suspension... Then VIV V4 19T with inlets etc. + oil pressure sensor.. = no need for single turbo and you have basically small M4
If you want to keep some ability of daily drive etc.
Great in depth video!
Tren - Thanks for the feedback!
Stage 4 twin turbos do exist by the way, stage 3s can push you into the 800s on twin turbos too. They are also a cheaper option then a big single turbo as well. Just want to comment on that.
Stages are really just a marketing term. The common differentiation on N54 twin turbos is TD-03 and TD-04, which refer to the size of the center section. TD03 upgraded turbos utilize OEM size center sections with larger than TD03 internals. True TD04 turbos (like RB Game Finishers) use a larger center section throughout.
Anyway, we did reference the TD03 vs TD04 sizing a few times throughout the video. Any TD03 turbos should ideally be kept under the 600whp mark. Yes, they can make more power but these small turbos really stress the engine above that power. TD04s are a good option for 575-650whp goals. The right twin turbo setup can make 700+whp, but the N54 is best suited to a large single turbo above 650whp. That's especially true on a stock engine.
@@8020Media Agree with your power thresholds for twins vs single 100%.
15T-17T twins are the sweet spot. Bigger twins just equals bigger problems.
@@8020Media Ik that to be true, but if you are chasing bigger power with a single you will have to swap out internals anyway, you will blow the motor at 700+ on stock internals
@@BMW1Mwhat does 15-17 mean?
@@malinoisnation9392 Hybrid twin turbos for N54 usually come in one of three sizes: 15T, 17T or 19T. For most of them, the exhaust turbine is the same (TD04L) - the "T" numbers refer to the compressor wheel size - each step is ~2mm larger diameter. The stock N54 turbos are 10T, and have a smaller TD03 turbine wheel.
Good information 😌
Menji - Thanks for the feedback! We'll have some exciting content regarding this topic in the near future.
Wonderful video
J - Thanks for the feedback! We hope it helped.
Great video. When my stock twins suffer the inevitable, I'll go with Pure Stage 2. But honestly don't need more than 500 crank.
S - That's what we did! Replaced our twins with aftermarket twins when they went out on us.
You just saved me spending a lot of money on the twin turbos which will not even a way to achieve my goal, after watching your video I’ll deffo go for the big single turbo instead the upgraded twin turbo. What single turbo do you think is best option for achieving the highest power on N54? My goal is around 900-1000whp!
My car running around 500bhp right now it’s on a stage 2+ and the list below is what I’ve done to my car, what else do I need to do to achieve that power? I’ll be much appreciated for the advice:
Aluminium charge pipe upgrade
Bigger step turbo intercooler
Stainless steel downpipes
Bimmerlife r8 coils
Silicone 1.75 Inlets
Platinum plus spark plugs
Oil catch can
Oil temp pin change mod
Engine cowl delete + filters
Upgraded pev valve and alloy cap
Index 12 fuel injectors
Ramair Cone filters
Stage 3 low pressure fuel pump
Xhp stage 3 transmission remap
Mhd stage 2+ engine remap
Protool coded out wingmirrors and bleep sounds
Danny - to realistically hit those power numbers you are going to need a built motor on top of a fat single turbo, a bunch of fueling mods, and a ton of other serious stuff. FWIW I'm about $10k deep into my 135i single turbo build (shooting for 700-750whp) and I still don't have an LSD or proper wheel/tire setup yet. A built motor for those power levels will probably run you like $8k and then figure $10k for your turbo setup and to handle 900+whp you're going to need to upgraded axles, a built transmission, and a bunch of other stuff as well which is going to run you thousands more.
Not to be mean but if you're asking what it takes to get to 900-1000whp you probably aren't really ready for those power levels. I'd say drop a single turbo on it and start with the 700whp mark and go from there. Getting much past 750whp without building the motor and trans and upgrading the axles is just asking to blow up all of these things. Even with the mods list you've got going hitting 900+ is going to cost you probably $25k, and that's assuming you DIY all of the work yourself.
700whp is fast as crap so start there. I'm expecting my 135i should be able to hit 750whp on the dyno, but I'm going to keep it around 650whp on the street since you really don't need much more than that to have an insanely fast car and it will help keep me within safe limits of the stock motor, turbo, rear end, and trans.
07 335i AT here… Great insight! So to reiterate what you’re saying, if my goals are 550-600 wheel I should probably just go upgraded twins versus spending the extra money for big single?
That said, it may be arguable, but who makes the most reliable twin setup for my power goal?
Luckee - Thanks for the feedback, and yes, you are correct. We would say TT. We've got a great guide on our BMW Tuning site: bmwtuning.co/bmw-n54-upgraded-twin-turbo-guide/
@@8020Media Thanks! Checking it out right now!
Keep us updated!
Check out the Arashi Twin Turbos for the N54 , they are ball bearing, will make way more power then Viv 19T V4 . A little more expensive
Can someone tell me if a 2016 535i m sport would benefit having a single turbo vs a twin set up that it already has.
Extreme - a 2016 535i has the BMW N55 engine. BMW used the rather confusing marketing term, "Twin-Power Turbo". The N55 is a single turbo engine that utilizes a twin-scroll turbo. You could convert the N55 into a true twin turbo setup, but it wouldn't be worth the money.
For track use what would you prefer? I think the twins.
I personally prefer the twins for a track setup and believe that would be the better option for most people looking to track an N54. Anything over 450-500whp is way overkill for most track days, most race tracks, most drivers, etc. Of course, you can make more power and simply turn boost down for a track day. Anyway, the quicker response and low-end torque of the twins will likely be ideal. A small single turbo like a PT5558 or PT5862 (or equivalent size/specs from another turbo manufacturer) could be a good option too.
That’s what I think too. Thanks
@@8020Mediahad an issue trying to track and didn't know about the xhp torque reduction upshifts and launch control until after. Always on stage 3 but never tweaked anything for the track until after.
I’m curious why you decided to go with RB Two’s at around 500whp when you said stocks can make 470ish whp
Zach is currently running around 600whp on his current tune and turbo setup. But it's always smart to upgrade earlier than you need to and to get a bit more than you intend to use. Running the stocks full bore at 470whp is going to impact reliability quite a bit. Just like running a turbo setup that maxes out at 600whp at 600whp on a daily basis. Building in some power margin is the best bet for reliability in your setup - you don't want your turbos kicking 100% all the time.
Also got myself a 2007 335i coupe, stock and ive been overthinking sooo much which route i wanna go haha. Its gonna be a daily but like a daily street car.
HockeyBeast - Nice! We hope this video has helped a little bit in your decision. Let us know what you end up doing! If you haven’t seen it, we’re turning our 135 into a single turbo! Check it out.
Update me on the car what’s you end up going with bro
The most important first step when deciding on upgrades is to set a power goal and stick to it. If you don't you'll just waste time and money.
If your aim is *big* power, your first consideration has to be the transmission and running gear. The ZF 6AT really isn't reliable above 600whp, even with XHP stage 3. The stock clutch in 6MT will start slipping at around 450whp.
In MT cars, the 550i clutch will allow you to put down around 600whp if you don't abuse it. Above that power you are going to need a twin plate and all the unpleasant noise and harshness that comes with it.
In AT cars, if you want >600whp you can spend a few grand building the 6AT, or a few more grand and do a ZF8HP70 or 90 swap, with a CanTCU or Lamik controller.
If you're doing this in a 135i or 335i, your rear axles will be in mortal danger at the low 600 range. So you'll need to upgrade them, While you're at it, you'll want a diff too, because you're now at a power level where you really to need *both* wheels putting it down.
Which brings the topic to rubber. Even with an LSD and sticky street rubber (Cup2's A052's etc) you're going to start running out of traction above 500whp. With some boost-by-gear tweaking you'll extend their usefulness to 600'ish.
Above 600whp you'll either need xDrive or Semi slicks (R compounds). Semi Slicks make genuinely awful street tires though, so be ready for crap ride quality and noises so bad it sounds like you've lost your wheel bearings.
IMO, anything over 600whp pushes you into full race car territory. If you liked your BMW because it was a wolf in sheep's clothing, you're gonna start hating it with the compromises >600whp necessitate. If you want full racecar, go for it though!
So IMO the real question is, do you want a street car (=650whp)?
For a street car, just buy good quality hybrids like the PS2, RB's or Mosselman's. On a budget? roll the dice with some eBay 17T's.
Forget about larger hybrids like 19T's, Flowmax, GC, GF, F-RB's etc unless you're stuck with only pump gas (in which case your power will be limited by the fuel), or are willing to build the engine. The\ bigger hybrids absolutely *will* bend rods and/or crack ringlands on a stock motor once properly dialed in on E85 or meth.. it might take a few months, but it will happen.
Going to a big single moves the power band enough tot the right (i.e. is laggy down low) that you can probably go to maybe 700-750whp before you'll need to build the motor.
At 800whp or more, you need a built motor if want anything resembling reliability. But then you have to ask yourself is it really worthwhile putting that much money into the N54 platform?
I'm putting my single n54 with syvecs into an e30
1M - Thanks for the valuable in depth insight here. This will certainly assist N54 owners in the future!
Ok so after reading this I want my n54 a street car with around high 400-low 500 what you think single or upgraded twins
@@shaqazoolou5749 15T’s (stage 2) twins are all you’ll need for this target, and if you buy Pure, RB or Mosselman you can expect them to last for years.
Thanks for the advice I wasnt sure how to achieve my goal I always had my head stuck in the maintenance bucket
What bumper is that?
M - Not too sure, we found this photo on the internet.
Hey I know im a year late😂 but I really need some advice for my recently bought 335i, I REALLY hope you see this. I just bought a stock 335i, and looking to put money into it. It has 105k miles and after watching this video I’ve decided to go the single turbo path. I don’t know where to start!!!
Can you please tell me like a checklist of things to do before I even think about installing a single turbo, it would help me a lot. Thank you in advance
A lot of it can be done while converting to a single turbo. I'd recommend checking and potentially preventatively replacing some of the following:
-Serpentine belt & pullies (when the belt snaps it can be pulled thru the front crank seal)
-Oil filter housing & gasket, valve cover & gasket, oil pan gasket
-Coolant hoses
-Fuel injectors (check/test for leaks)
-Walnut blast intake valves
I could add more to the list, but that's a good starting point and there are a number of other things you'll be in the area of while installing a single turbo. Best of luck with your build! Let us know if you have any more questions.
How much did you spend on the 335i ?
G - A lot at this point lol. 5 figures easily.
Hey man maybe a selfish request here but I personally would LOVE to see your opinion on the best platforms for performance Cars, SUVs & Trucks maybe your personally ranking and understand it’s all your opinion but you know so much about these engines that I’m sure the community would like to see your two cents when comparing BMW’s B58s & N54s vs Ford’s 3.5L ecoboost & V8 vs Dodge’s 5.7L Hemi & Cummins … I currently own an N54 and looking to buy a second car to support the build whenever it’s under construction 😂 but really not sure what would be a good engine for a bigger car like an SUV? I’ve been looking at Ford’s 3.5L ecoboost in the Explorer & Dodge’s 5.7L in the Jeep Grand C or even considering getting another bmw and going for either an N55 or B58 SUV … In terms of performance potential, ability to rebuild(some platform are more rebuild friendly like the N54 that has so much information online on how to build them and lots of aftermarket support to buy affordable forged internals) and ofcourse reliability! Appreciate if you read this 🙏🏽
Thank you for the comment and feedback! We'll certainly considering doing some videos along these lines. It would likely take a few videos to cover so much different stuff between cars, trucks, SUV's, different budgets, goals/priorities, etc. I think all the engines you're considering in an SUV are solid choices. I'd personally rank them:
1) B58
2) 3.5 EcoBoost
3) 5.7 HEMI
4) N55
If you're after performance potential I'd probably nix the 5.7 HEMI. It has the potential but the NA design is a limiting factor unless you're willing to consider big mods like cams or forced induction. The N55 isn't as capable as the B58 or 3.5 EcoBoost and it's also the least reliable on the list. Less the injectors, turbo, and HPFP the N55 isn't any more reliable than the N54. Then again, if you're already comfortable working on the N54 then N55 reliability might not be a big concern since they share much in common.
I think BMW did an excellent job with the B-series engines and so far the B58 is proving itself to be very capable and reliable. To me, it's without question the best on this list and one of the best mass-production engines right now. I really like the 2nd gen 3.5 EcoBoost, too. I just can't give it the edge over the BMW B58. When behind the wheel, the BMW engine simply feels more exciting and refined.
@@8020Media thanks so much man, this is super helpful!
If I upgrade internals then surely large twins are better
That's a toss up. Really depends on your goals with the N54. Once you move to larger TD-04 twins you'll be introducing a higher boost threshold and more lag vs stock frame TD-03 turbos.
These TD04s can hit 700+whp but I believe, as discussed in the video, a ST is the best option at 650+whp. The PT 6266 or 6466 can spool very well (a tiny bit slower than TD04 twins but not far behind), give more headroom, better peak power, etc.
Ultimately, 450-550whp Id go TD03 twins, 550-650whp TD04 twins are a great pick, anything 650+whp then the N54 ST conversion is likely the way to go. That said, maybe your goal is 600whp with fast spool and excellent low-end and mid-range torque. In this case, Id be on board with building the engine and running RB Twos Plus (TD03 w/ ported outlets) at that power. Those are the turbos I run on my 335i and Id have full faith in running them to 600-625whp on a built motor.
@@8020Mediawhat if I want the simplicity of a single turbo but only want about 500whp? Could I just get a smaller single turbo?
M - Don't know if it would be worth changing everything if 500whp is your goal.
@@8020Media thanks only just seen this for some reason! Yeah I think the low end and mid range torque are best for track use so that’s the way to go for me!
J - Keep us posted!
THIS GUY HAVE A DREAM..
HE WANT EVERYBODY IN DA HOOD CALL HIM TURBOH.
???
The n54 platform is dead i thought this video was over 10 years ago lol bruh we on b58 s55 etc sold my n54 like 6 years ago
Sure, the N54 is getting old and the platform is certainly slowing down. However, it's far from dead and debatably still a better platform than the B58 at this moment. I'm not questioning the B58 is the better engine (especially the TU and now doubly so the TU2 with DI + PI from the factory).
The chassis' the N54 is found in make for more fun drivers cars, though. They're lighter, the 6MT is abundant, and they don't have the junky electric steering. When the B58TU in the "M-lite" models comes down in price and the TU2 makes its way into 240/340/440 models then the B58 becomes a much more appealing platform. For now, the N54 is still alive and well.
I smoked tf outta new supra with aftermarket exhaust and tune from what I heard in my n54 535i. Bang for buck way more than the b58. Yes the b58 is a good motor no doubt. But bro, I'm 600hp reliable dd on this and still have room to turn it up. My shit cost me $15k from the car to parts at the most! Supra dude I smoke probably took his car to the dealer after talking about "something wrong with this one" lmao 🤣
Grizz - Thanks for sharing this experience. We love hearing things like this!
Idk what world your in 🤦🏾♂️