Thor: Love and Thunder - This Film Hates You
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- čas přidán 16. 07. 2022
- Anyone hoping Phase 4 of the MCU might have decided what it's for and what it's all about will be disappointed by Thor: Love and Thunder, which is the perfect example of cheap jokes ruining a story.
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"Gods don't care about anyone" proceeds to kidnap children, banking that thor, a god, will save them because he cares about them
Woops!
If he didn’t he would have died, and so would have many more of his friends. The fight was selfish as much as It wasn’t.
You are WRONG. Gorr was trying to defeat Thor at the beginning of the film but understood he couldn't do so even with the Necrosword. And he understood Thor will do anything to protect his people during the fight. So he kidnaps all the children and move them to Shadow World where Gorr is more powerful and can defeat Thor when he comes to get the children. This strategy of Gorr works and Gorr managed to reach the Eternity but as Jane destroys the Necrosword, and the Necro Sword is no more corrupting Gorr and he can think freely and realise his chance to save his daughter rather than killing all the Gods. And he did it
You don't understand that a God is made by you believing they are. An alien with magical power that can live 5k + years didn't see themselves as gods. Humans called them that. Also most hopeless people want to be proven wrong so they can have hope again. People need hope but they need a reason to push on. He wants to be proven wrong. He wants love back in his heart instead of the ever growing hatred. That hatred is painful
@@abhi5540 You just proved his point right, and yours wrong, with “And he understood Thor would do anything to protect his people during the fight”.
"Why did you not help against Thanos"
"We were on a break" - The Eternals
"We don't do that stuff" - The Egyptian Gods
"We were on Epstein Island" - All other Gods
Same with captain Marvel and the first two avengers movies. Fury had the call Button since the 90s.
@@paha4209 Captain Marvel could have happened after avengers and would have changed nothing... Just make Amanda a little bit older and that's it.
The Galaxy is so much bigger. And sometimes, everyone has their own shit to deal with.
@@danielramsey6141 Considering the Eternals were on earth scratching each other's asses, the definitely didn't have something else to do.
@@danielramsey6141 except Thanos affected the Entire Universe.... So anything anyone had going on would automatically be affected by Thanos... Even the birth of Celestials were affected by Thanos
Imagine if instead of kicking out the Gaurdians of the Galaxy and making the film a laughing stock, they tie the Gaurdians in the plot somehow, have Thor struggling to come to terms with Jane's losing battle with cancer, and have Quill put away the comedic rivalry in order to extend a sympathetic supporting hand to Thor because he's reminded of how he had to struggle much the same way with accepting his mother's decline and death.
This is a very good idea
^
That would have been a brilliant movie
Guardians*
It's amazing how they didn't use that. Peter Quill was someone rather well positioned to play a good supporting role here. Could have also nicely shown his overall character growth from where he was as a kid. But no, write him and the Guardians out before Jane even enters the picture and make zero use of that potential presence in the story.
As a Scandinavian person, it bothered me so much that they named Heimdall’s son Astrid. It’s a female name here (and as far as I know, in history and origin as well).
11 guys in Sweden are named Astrid as their given name. But yes, that kinda irkked me.
omfg who caresssssss
@@qwoovy2359zip it nerd
@qwoovy2359 it matters in the sense that when I first heard this description, I assumed the character was trans. It would've been awesome to see casual trans representation, especially transmasculine, especially a black person! but no, we got a lame senseless mera joke.
@@qwoovy2359
Because it’s weird? Why give a male a female name. You wouldn’t name a male character vanessa because that is not a name for a man
One other thing bothering me that a lot of people fail to mention (probably because there’s so much else wrong with the movie): Thor seems to have COMPLETELY lost his powers of lightning and has gone back to being the god of hammers. Ragnarok was all about him finding strength without his hammer, yet now he’s back to being in a literal relationship with them…
This annoyed me so much, I kept waiting for him to just use lighting
Literally the whole time on that shadow planet when Gorr was like “Summon the axe” I was practically shouting at Thor to just hurry up and Lightning his grey a**
Ignoring character arks and developments is one of the most frustrating things a story can do, I also feel your pain.
That idea got retconned in Infinity war. He had to get stormbreaker to beat Thanos, implying that he's indeed the God of Hammers and not lightning. He cannot summon his full powers without the hammer and axe.
I didnt even noticed that, now im more hurt....
Something that bothers me about this movie is that Thor accidentally casts a spell on Mjolnir asking it to protect Jane and that's the excuse for why she could wield it but the problem is that Mjolnir is killing her, doing the exact opposite of protecting her.
The mjolnir killing her was explained in the comics. The thing that bogs the movie down is the fact that she made mjolnir reassemble itself, and the fact that she already knows how to wield it like a pro.
@@cosmicluna5783 You can't rely on comics and third party media to explain plot holes in movies. Most people don't read the comics or know anything about them so your job as a writter is explain it in a natural way to the audience
To add to that, Mjolnir is better in its "broken" form, with the projection shenanigans. The entire Wakanda v Thanos battle would be over in two minutes.
And also, Odin just told him he's not the God of Hammers, AND the axe is wayyy cooler man. Everything, from how it was forged, to how Thor wields it to stop Thanos is amazing.
Not saying Mjolnir is unimportant to him. Just that he should be emotionally bound to Strombreaker as much as Mjolnir.
Also, the entire point of Hela shattering Mjolnir was "Fuck, she's really strong and means business. How is Thor gonna take her on without his weapon?"
Those little pieces of character building are now retroactively destroyed and Ragnarok as a movie has been retroactively cheapened.
This movie was so fucking stupid. & the director didn’t give a shit about anything previously before. What a waste.
The fact that Thor was set up with the Guardians to begin this movie that includes a cancer subplot but Peter Quill is already out of the story when it occurs is criminal. I would’ve LOVED to see Starlord and Thor bond and comfort each other over a very similar trauma, how well that would’ve rounded each character. The MCU is not dead because the stories can’t top the Infinity Saga, it’s because they don’t stop to think about nuance and tone and the broader picture.
Ironically this would have been a gratis way to combat "toxic masculinity". Men sharing trauma, feelings. But nah. Undress the bloke and girl Power from there on out.
Imagine a scene where Peter tries to tell Thor that he should try not to leave anything unsaid with Jane and he should take opportunity to spend as much time as possible with her because of how much regret he has from running away from his own mother as she died.
And it shows that you don't have to dial up the stakes with each installment. Sometimes going back to a small scale situation works great.
No way in hell that would have happened. That would mean making men seem like decent human beings.
@@richardsanchez5444
Correction: that would mean taking the film seriously, and we can't have that.
If your using a character like Gorr and you using Jane Foster and her cancer. Then Waitit is the wrong director for that story. This could be an amazing story to tell, dark and emotional.
have you seen jojo rabbit? emotional, taboo-breaking, dark humour, oscar winning (or i think so) movie? it's been done by waititi. he is a superb director, just a shitty writer (especially if his creativity should be constrained by the rules of the existing setting (as in this case), but is not since he's been given way too much trust)
@@kretgwiazdonos7397 if it’s true this movie was cut in half for the kids
@@kretgwiazdonos7397 that’s a great film but just because they’re both about horrible things doesn’t mean they’re the same. The point of jojo rabbit was to almost take the piss out of hitler, to turn him in to a joke and that’s what Waititi does well. Janes cancer story isn’t about making a joke about her illness. Waititi isn’t the right director to tell such a serious story like janes.
I was hyped for this. Zeus, Gorr, Lady Jane, all of it. I thought we would get another innovative spin on the tired Marvel formula, much like Ragnarok, and it’s unique style. This had potential to be a dark, disturbing, horror-esque story. With this being post Endgame, the stakes weren’t too high, the villain wasn’t too big, it would have been just right. Instead, I choose to forget this movie happened, or basically anything since endgame. The shows are meh, the movies range from awful to uninspiring, and the direction it seems they are going is completely uninteresting as a fan from the beginning.
you're
This really should've been a darker movie. Gorr is one of the most wicked and evil villains in Marvel, the guy freaking bragged about torturing a God of Torture until said god was begging for mercy. He slaughtered countless gods, cut one gods eyelids off so he'd be forced to watch Gorr torment other gods, enslaved numerous deities to build a bomb to kill all other gods and even fought off 3 Thors at once despite one being on the same level as Odin.
Gorr is a monster and a badass. He's like Thanos without any kind of restraint. This could've easily been the darkest Marvel Movie in history...and then handed it over to the guy who made the Hulk and Thor into complete clowns.
I’m not familiar with Gorr at all but with a title like “God butcher” I was questioning the lack of gods killed.
Bro gorr was literally Thanos on steroids in the comics 🙌
Yeah. Waititi should've used this chance to make a more dramatic story. I mean between Gorr, Jane Foster's cancer and her dilemma, the ingredients were in place for a darker, more personal tale.
Unfortunately, Waititi and the writers felt otherwise.
dude. what? damn. any more factoids on Gorr?
[[ 3 Thors at ONCE!? ]]
@@fxsantazo Well he captured and enslaved a younger version of Thor who he tortured for several years I believe and in an alternate time line was responsible for wiping out all of Asgard.
Something I realized just now: There's a fundamental difference between how Taika Waititi and James Gunn writes their films.
Waititi takes things you're supposed to care about and makes you laugh at them, and Gunn takes things you're supposed to laugh at and makes you care about them.
"He may have been your father, but he wasn't your daddy." --still one of my favorite Marvel lines
and didn't Guardians of the Galaxy 2 helped Chris Pratt to grieve over his father's passing?
@@NymeriaLupin damn
Don’t do that. Waititi is a really good director. And in Ragnarok, you care about Odin’s death. And the moment when Loki is revealed to be alive. The Valks all dying out. And even the destruction of Asgard is treated seriously.
In this movie, he doesn’t make jokes around the cancer, especially right before the final battle. Or around Gor’s reasoning. There’s still serious moments. Just surrounded by and led up to by an insufferable amount of jokes
@@TubemastaC you’re joking right? There was no feeling in those events.
I can still hardly believe that the SAME MAN who did Jojo Rabbit-one of my top 100 movies to date, with a perfect and healthy balance between grief and loss and humor…also did Thor 4. What corrupted all that amazing talent?
I was thinking about Hunt for the Wilderpeople and Boy, but I totally spaced that Waititi did Jojo Rabbit too! Such a masterpiece of a film...
I just can't believe there wasn't something else going on in production on Thor 4...
Clout
After the last two Thor movies I’m genuinely convinced he just despises MCU and therefore cannot make a good faith effort when he works on it.
Take those “community theater” gags mocking the previous movies. When he did it in Ragnarok I took it as dissing the previous team who worked on Dark world - not particularly professional move but at least understandable - but then he does exactly the same unfunny painful to watch gag again, this time targeting his own previous work.
At this point I genuinely can’t find any explanation for that other than Taika doesn’t care for MCU, really doesn’t want to work on Thor but the money is just too good to refuse the job.
My theory is that he’s let the fame go to his head, and no one wants to tell him “no” when he has a bad idea.
Fame most likely.
Though the guy seems like he's always been an insufferable twat. One of those people who think everyone loves them, but really can't stand to be around. >__>
This is one of the biggest problems I have had with nearly every mcu movie since phase 3, especially starting in Avenger's Endgame. Everything is treated as a joke, even moments that should be dramatic. Fat Thor was treated as a joke after Thor's tragic inability to prevent Thanos' "snap".
Phase 4 should have been a time to tell smaller scale stories with the heroes dealing with lower stakes. The problem the movies have now is that _every_ movie has to tell a big epic story. Not every comic book is about saving the world or the multiverse or the quantum realm or whatever. The movies being like that combined with no one taking anything seriously leads viewers to wonder what the point is.
Ragnarok was the start of the mcu downfall , they did something that worked for the standalone movie and roled with it for the rest of the mcu which ruined it in imo , if you watch beginning mcu vs current the two tones are night and day.
@@mrorganic13 Indeed, and I hated Ragnarok from the first viewing because of it. Thor isn't supposed to be a comedy / slapstick character, but more of a Greek tragedy, or Shakespearean (edit: it was Thor's niche in the MCU, and set those movies apart, which by itself supported the rest of the MCU)
The problem is adults watching silly children's movies and complaining that those movies aren't mature and respectful enough 😂
@@FINNSTIGAT0R arguably, children's movies should have superior writing, that respects its audience, not the opposite
I just find it really funny that in Free Guy, Taika Waititi plays a vapid, narcissistic, entitled game director, who clearly doesn't understand the product he has control over (because it wasn't his to begin with) and would be willing to literally destroy said product just to have his own way. Oddly prophetic?
He's playing himself.
Neil Drukkman lol
He obviously lacks self awareness.
@@WithoutForm911 unfair comparison
@@mahyardavarzani1945 nope
The reason Thor was loved by fans in that tiny of stretch of time between Ragnarok and Endgame was because he became loosened up and funny but at the same time wiser and more aware of himself. His vulnerability (when he speaks to Rocket) leads him to extraordinary strength. Thor at this point in the MCU should've been one of the older but more powerful heroes that make their appearance every now and then to drop a little nugget of wisdom, then dip, much like Odin did. I think this would've been the ideal way to go, but again we live in THIS timeline, so big welp.
Great point
The Russos did thor amazing. Thor was at his best in infinity war, sadly endgame was a miss
He should've been the next "leader" after Cap's and Iron Man's death, but unfortunately....
@@Oskar0424 Exactly
@@Oskar0424Nah I don’t think he’d fit the role
"Thor punches a vending machine because some moron made a fridge without a door" was way funnier than it should've been
That is the level of situational comedy that works great with Thor.
The biggest issue with the MCU is that every movie or strain of movies are directed by different people. The directors don't sit down and go "Hey this is what I'm doing let me know what your doing so I don't cause problems with the pacing story and set emotional significance of these characters" everything would be better of they all collaborated. For example Dr. Strange's fighting style in infinity war is crazy cool but yet he gets the crap beat out of him by a tentacle monster and only uses like 3 spells in MOM.
Thats one small yet significant example in a long list of sad inconsistencies
And there even fighting each other like back in mom the director admitted to only using the scarlet witch as a villain was so no one else could use her
Maybe the directors should be required to at least see the previous movies 💀
The plot: A man disillusioned by gods and their indifference is given the ability to kill them. Meanwhile a woman in the terminal stage of cancer is given powers that both strengthen and inch her closer to death with each transformation.
The tone: Happy-Go-Lucky party time!
Aka Waipeepee time!
That's the same problem Ragnarok had. Slavery, the inevitable destruction of your entire planet, mass slaughter and the death of a family member were mostly treated as a joke. The only reason why Ragnarok worked is because everyone was getting tired of the overly serious thor, and Ragnarok at least took the heavier stuff more serious than L&T
@『W E A T H E R B O Y』 Yes, I had my issues with Ragnorock but still liked it and was o.k with it. But Love and Thunder is just bulit on all those issues and made them worse.
Imagine love persisting despite all the dark.
Don't forget about the 90s rock for a little bit of nostalgia bait. This movie was plain bad. I left the theater feeling nothing.
The whole "Mjolnir being his ex" thing did not need to be dragged on for that long.
Yeah, I mean, did Gordon Freeman’s crowbar cry after he picked up the gravity gun?
@@lingricen8077 no but the companion cube would cry if it sees Chell with someone else
Neither did the goats.
That shit stopped being funny after two minutes, and they kept bringing them back!
and endgame mjolnir didn’t seem to mind being used by him or cap.
Just crazy
@@ELeeHammThey were too fucking loud and annoying.
With your opening story. The problem is not in the child. The problem is the parents allowing the child to run off 10 times without punishment and the adults around that continued laughing when the kid did the same thing until no one could enjoy it anymore. Same thing with Waititi
I agree in the story the child is the problem - but the analogy fails because Waititi is a grown ass man
Most British parents don't teach or discipline their child for fear of being seen bad in the child's eye. They want to appear as a nice person. The child annoys all around them and the parents do absolutely nothing. A child once had an actual hammer and hit another kid in a play area. British people are very scummy at heart, look at how they adore Boris Johnson & Margaret Thatcher and hated Neil Kinnock, Michael Foot and Jeremy Corbin (but he has become a joke now).
@@graceyeah3926
Allegedly.
"Adults" in this variant should've been other people, who usually are holding the leash on narc directors.
Not gonna lie, i actually laughed when you referenced the joke about thor calling a vending machine a fridge without a door. It reminds me of a meme with Gaston in the original Beauty and The Beast where he's holding one of Belle's books and the caption reads "Fascinating! A sandwich, with words!!"
That was always a bit of the fun about Thor. He comes from somewhere else and has different views and experiences. A great opportunity for situational comedy.
@@HappyBeezerStudiosman I remember back in 2011 this was my favourite thing about Thor. Him coming down to earth and not understanding many customs and social rules. It really felt like a comic hero had woken up in reality
thanks for not lying
Throughout the entire movie, I thought Thor's humor was a coping mechanism. I was expecting a scene before the third act where he just breaks down over the weight of endgame and jane, but that never happened and it drove me a little nuts after the movie
I mean, there was one scene in the movie that I felt did that. It was after the black and white planet stuff where Thor finds out that the hammer is weakening Jane's ability to fight off the cancer. He hears the status from the doctor, gets frustrated about his situation and punches the vending machine. Jane hears this and looks at the doorway to see Thor, all smiling and joking with a bag of snacks. That was, I felt, him using his humor as a coping mechanism. But, obviously, it should have been capitalized more in the film rather than just this moment.
@@sakethvenkatesh2492 I felt the same way. It was clear to me that’s what was happening, but I felt it could have been handled a bit better
@@sakethvenkatesh2492 that was legit the one moment in the film that gave me hope and made me feel something towards Thor.
I'm still holding my breath to see Berserker Thor caught in the grip of Warrior's Madness just one fucking time. He has the entirety of the odin force and he used it to LARP with some kids to barely beat an emaciated albino twin of Drax...
People talk about Hulk being nerfed but nobody's talking about Thor being cucked despite him getting the biggest level up in the MCU.
If James Gunn made this movie, I think that is a scene we would have got. People criticize Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 for its humor, but they forget that when we get to the third act that Gamorra is reeling it back in when Peter tries to deflect serious topics with humor. The jokes in the third act of the movie are true to the character. Yondu’s death is treated with the weight it deserves and the movie ends on a heartfelt somber note. Love and Thunder tries to do this with Jane dying and Thor becoming a dad, but it’s undercut by superpowered kid shenanigans and a Korg monologue.
I kinda wish the makers of Puss in Boots 2 handled this movie. Puss in Boots 2 is a very funny movie that’s also about the fear of loss and death, and they’re also trying to get to a Macguffin that grants any wish. However, it also knows when to step back and allow characters to talk or reach an emotional low point like with Puss’s panic attack. Death is what they tried to do with Gorr by having this omnipotent threat lingering in the background who steals every scene he’s in and makes the room so quiet that you can hear a pin drop no matter what happened in the previous scene. Gorr had the potential to be just as memorable as death and God knows Christian Bale is giving it his all, but he’s just not given enough to do.
Why couldn't we see more of Gorr actually killing gods, rather than the main driving force for Thor to go after him being that he kidnapped kids. Actually seeing Gorr kill a lot of Gods would been so much better.
Considering in god butcher he basically went on a thanos style crusade against gods, it’s just disappointing
What
A
FUCKING WASTE
Especially when this movie is very gory, but they all bleed gold to keep the rating down. So they could have shown Gorr easily just cutting down gods by the dozens in horribly violent ways.
@@vehimouchas9743 I feel like marvel staying primarily pg-13 hurts them and their movies
@@lonelyloser9376 with 2 orgy jokes from zeus, VERY pg-13
The screaming goats were really pushing the envelope for me. The first time they appeared I chuckled a bit, but after that it felt like that corny uncle at a family barbecue telling the same joke over and over again expecting everyone to laugh
I love the way you worded the title, because after I watched this I legitimately felt like Taika hated the audience. I felt talked down to like a toddler. And then I watched some behind the scenes stuff with him and I think he might actually hate us "peasants".
Honestly, one of my biggest complaints about the MCU (even before phase 4) was the lack of reoccurring villains. I've seen so many people make the (completely fair) point that its hard to feel like there's any stakes when the good guys almost always win, or win by defeating the villain in a way that stops them from ever being a threat again. Having villains that return in several movies, or even have arcs that span multiple movies would be an incredible way to keep people invested.
I swear, just the sheer thought of that sounds amazing. I never really gave it much thought to begin with, but yeah, I'd totally love for that to happen.
Infinity war fixed that until you fools enjoyed endgame
@@seriousnesstv7902 Infinity War is the best Marvel film period. It's the most notable Marvel film that doesn't follow the typical "formula" that most of them do
The problem with marvel is it is vague on killing being a rule about superheroes. Some villains survive, some die. It poses no philosophical question to what it means to be a hero beside the fact that one arc has been wrapped, another is on the way. DCEU attempted this before but was hampered by Snyder's self indulgent writing - which didn't give the debate as much it needed to develop leaving it to the audience to piece together. Basically, Superman and Batman both start as people with conflicts about killing. Superman kills Zodd and feels guilty, but batman is killing people guiltlessly from a mental break that was teased but never developed - robins death. Then we find out some of Batman's killing is engineered by Lex(bat brands). They both come into conflict in the BvS over their methods. But remember Batman knows the hypocrisy in superman criticizing him for killing. He watched many die in his clash with zodd due to the disregard superman had to civilian casualties (ala civil war, which did a great job at exploring this). By Justice League, the focus shifted from human casualties to aliens which threw the whole arc out by making it okay to kill aliens cause you know, aliens. Something we also saw in infinity arc after civil war - none of these heroes care for alien casualties. Its been a whole murder fest since civil war with horrendous acts being excused because of the inherent message. Grief makes it okay for Wanda to leave a kill trail across the multiverse after enslaving a whole town - taking away from the reality of civil war that unchecked power is dangerous whether it be wielded for good or bad reasons....
All in all, they are speedrunning their source material for the grandeur, not the story. And most villains you'll see henceforth won't last unless they are some top tier big bad like thanos - who's power level has been dwarfed since endgame with the introduction of celestials, gods, and the multiverse so good luck with that I wish to them.
the irony of Tessa Thompson going to the emotion gods is actually great
Hey, Einstein. Where's Doc? ;P
"Everyone was excited for Thor to travel with the Guardians." God that is so true. I remember how everyone talked about that after everything. It's actually really disappointing now that you remind me of it.
Honestly my main problem was they didn’t show us how much of a threat gorr was. He’s the god butcher but we BARELY saw him doing anything. No reason we didn’t get more individual gorr time like ragnarok did with hela
The really bad thing about this movie is that it does not hesitate to sh*t on the films made by other directors and writers. It's not enough for Watiti to not care about or even actively dislike the content of his films, he takes moments to slander and cheapen everything that came before. The montage where Korg goes through all of Thor's loss and says "And this guy, and this guy, and whoever that was..." when talking about the Warriors Three is such a slap in the face of Thor fans. These are his best friends, these are loved characters, and they're nothing to him. Everything Kenneth Branagh, Alan Taylor, Joss Whedon, the Russos did for the character is stupid in his opinion, and as such needs to be castigated. He makes fun of their films and the effort they put into their projects because he doesn't believe in his own. He's obviously jealous and insecure about his own talents or lack thereof. It reeks of such a cowardly and unprofessional thing to do. Christopher Nolan doesn't take time in his Batman films to shit on the work of Joel Schumacher, because it's not germane to the story.
The way he unceremoniously killed them off with little effort or fanfare was already pretty bad, but then he doubled down on the slap to the face by pissing on it too
I really doubt those characters were killed off with the intent to shit on previous writers and directors. The first two movies were really shitty and Thor needed to be fresh again, Ragnarok was a comedy so the already shitty characters were killed off in a comedic way. How did you get to the conclusion that Taika’s jealous and insecure? People just love making shit up nowadays LMAO Funny enough though his new Thor after Ragnarok felt way too excessive and went back to being shitty, even if not as much as the first two, but it’s also funny to see retarded comments like these 😂😂
@@qqNai What about Thor's friends made them shitty characters exactly?
Also, what was "comedic" about their deaths? They just seemed more lazy than anything else.
Imo that isn’t true it was just a rushed movie and stupid decisions where made I personally loved thor Ragnarok it balanced the humor and the the main plot brilliantly and the humor didn’t take me out of the film too often while in this one it felt like a first draft script a first draft screenplay this shouldn’t have come out when it did and they should have worked on it for a few more months or years to flesh it out and that’s what is wrong with the movie industry now it’s not just marvel movies getting rushed and thus there are a lot gaps in logic that wherent thought of cus they wherent thinking about the actually story instead trying to get as much money as possible trying to rush flims to make money
This.
Has anyone ever call out Valkyrie for, you know, selling countless slaves to their deaths for drinking money? If Thor becoming a drunkard for 5 years (while hurting no one) made him unworthy of the throne, then Valkyrie becoming a drunkard for millennia (while killing a lot of innocent people) should make her way less worthy. She deserves to be called out a lot both in the movies and in real life.
In real life? You know its not real right?
@@michaelelmes2135 I mean video essays criticizing her character. At least Wanda has a lot of them.
@@nont18411 yeah, and Wanda was literally corrupted by a book of pure evil, and no one except me is giving her any slack. I’m not saying what she did is justified, I just saw the SHEILD show and know what the Darkhold can do to a person, and a literal robot
@@deadpooldan9862 Not exactly, she was already a bad person before the Darkhold (Westview was 100% her fault, the darkhold only amplified her evilness) but you got the idea, at least someone called her out, unlike Valkyrie.
@@nont18411 again, she wasn’t a bad person before the Darkhold, yes, she made an entire town slaves, but she didn’t know that they shared her pain, and let them go when she knew she was torturing them, she would never willingly hurt people who didn’t deserve it before the Darkhold, the Darkhold turned her bad
One strange aspect of the MCU is the Egyptian gods (as shown in Moon Knight) appear to actual divine beings, whereas all other gods from earths pantheons just seem to be a super-powered aliens.
So it turns out that the Egyptians were right all along
@@RoyalKnightVIIIthey forgot slifer the executive producer
There's nothing wrong with having fun in a movie, even serious movies can have goofy moments. But it's about contextualizing those moments in a way that doesn't take away from the overall message of the movie.
Exactly. It's all about context. Have funny moment, have serious moments, but don't let one destroy the other. Think of the dance off. That was a great comedic moment. Or when Vision casually hands Thor the hammer, after all of them having a party trying to lift the thing.
One is silent comedy where the fun comes from context, both in the scene and the wider universe. The other seems like gallows humor, but fits within context because it acts as a distraction.
One is comedic to the audience, from the beat exactly before, the other is comedic in-universe, because of how badly timed it is. From their perspective.
You Can’t take away from a message if the movie doesn’t have one
I feel like Taika is a victim of his own success in some regards. He has a solid filmography and I think he is pretty good about balancing down to earth characters and moments with humor, but it seems like ever since he became a Marvel darling he's grown wackier and wackier to live up to his image as the "zany" director while losing that careful balance between humor and human moments that makes his other work... work. He's typecasted himself, and Thor Love and Thunder feels like a movie he's trying way too hard to be a worthy vehicle for his image as the "funny" marvel guy.
Preach!
@@ichhabssatt 🍑
Yes but he also is very vain and his style just sucks, his two Thor movies are not funny at all. Thet also fail in many levels but the problem is also the direction feige and disney took the mcu.
Well Shylamalan lost his way when he got too big.
I feel like his current movies are a cry for help
Taika seems like the guy that would laugh at people having a funeral because it’s ruining his good time and he can’t stand to have social anxiety and stress when it comes to real world high stress situations.
TAIKA IS A JOKER AND SPOILS EVRYTHING HE TOUCHES, HE'S A NARCISSIST! A FCK A-HOLE!!
Taika David Cohen?!
Yeah, it's true what they say about them: They will cry out while they are striking you..
@Nick Gur fuck you asshole, there are much more anti semites out there being a worse person that Taika is
@Nick Gur f uck you as shole, there are much more anti semites out there being a worse person that Taika is
@Nick Gur what the fuck are you talking about?
We've seen countless examples in the past, of studio interference ruining a movie, it happens all too often. But in this case, "Love and Thunder" is probably one of the worst examples of giving too much creative control to one guy. Disney probably thought, that with how well received Ragnarök was, that Taika could do no wrong, big mistake. Ragnarök, despite being a decent movie had it's flaws, the emphasis on comedy was always just shy of completely ruining it. Love and Thunder on the other hand was utterly overwhelmed by it, practically drowning what little story there was. I'm just glad Disney saw sense (which is rare), and kicked Taika out.
Taika's problem is he's not as funny as he thinks he is, and he's a quarter as clever as he believes he is. Valkerie is completely unlikable and should have been left on planet trashheap, I know its name but I will not stain Planet hulk by calling it Sakarr so it's planet trashheap.
His humor seems to revolve around patting himself on the back and being a smarmy jerk you have the urge to punch.
He's really his character from Free Guy.
I think one big fix would be instead of the kids getting granted the powers near the end, Thor should’ve called the guardians and they show up to help. It would’ve made me happy and almost redeemed a lot of the terrible shit in this circus of a film
I LOVED Christian Bale as Gorr. He was creepy, well acted, genuinely good at being a villain and visually one of the best characters I've ever seen in the MCU. He looked like a horror movie demon in a superhero flick.
So you can imagine how much I loathe the fact that they wasted that good of an actor and that good of a villain in a film that doesn't take itself seriously. It reminds me a lot of Ultron. Great performance, James Spader has a great villain voice... And then they waste him for jokes.
That brief moment at the beginning where Gorr is laughing alongside the gods, not realising that they are laughing AT him - that was brilliant and Ive no doubt that Bale improvised that detail.
Yeah, I loved Bale's performance, like always he gave in all, just to get smoked by the director and writers,
take away the kidnapper thing for gorr and he would have been the creepiest villain
Truth, I always underrate Bale but he is really good. In fact even in this he managed to keep the character on track and quite possibly was the only thing holding the whole thing together (if you can even call it that). Saying that I actually quite liked Crowe's Zeus character but completely out of place in this film - would watch something centred around him but not in the Marvel universe.
Didn't see TLT, but it is the same I feel regarding Cate Blanchett in Ragnarok. Hella is one of my favorite Thor's comic characters and the trailers showed Cate embraced the character... then Ragnarok happend.
Taika's desire to make the message about love is less about the characters in the movie exploring that but his love of himself. And oof this movie proves how much ego this man has.
Oh absolutely true. Taika is so in love with himself and pats himself on the back so much for his 'cleverness' that his shoulders must constantly hurt.
And then Khorg is gay, because of course he is 🙄.
Finally someone is saying that. Not only I can't stand his movies or his acting, but even during interviews he strikes me as the most superficial unempathetic person i've ever seen.
That Oscar win went straight to his head, and it shows.
@@nicohope4 He's fucking clown lmao. Acts like 6 year old.
Your points about Taika's lack of sincerity and fear of being genuine is very true. Saying love is cringe. LOL.
Meanwhile the best movie of the year (Everything Everywhere All At Once) was completely sincere in its love stories, even when it was absurd. Everything in the movie was absurd. Except for the feelings, which were deep and genuine and relatable.
Considering the fact that in the comics Gorr's powers come from Knull, the King in Black, it's a shame that he wasn't even mentioned or hinted at, as I think he could be the next main villain of the MCU.
Given that the character is most likely under Sony’s ownership, I’m not surprised they didn’t even mention Knull.
you can't do gorr without the knull storyline gorr is fundamentally tied to that
It was a missed opportunity to not have Jane's cancer be a side effect of having the Aether/Reality Stone inside her in Dark World...but that would require Taika to pay attention to the previous Thor movies.
I have to disagree with that, having Jane's cancer be based off of an infinity stone will set a precedent that they could affect people and give cancer. There would be theories everywhere about Wanda, captain marvel and anyone else who came in contact with them having cancer. It's fine how it is but they should had taken it more seriously.
@@arielc.9081 Difference is that Jane isn't a meta human
She's powerless, whereas those you mentioned have powers. You can just say their tolerance is higher or something
Also she reacted completely differently than someone with stage 4 would. My grandad had stage 3 and he couldn’t even move he was so tired and hurt.
@@arielc.9081 It WAS also a precedent that Infinity Stones were normally dangerous for humans (and other species/races), both in direct contact and just being in proximity.
In fact, the Aether WAS slowly killing Jane (hence the urgency to remove it from her).
The Infinity Stones all tended to emit Gamma radiation aka the same thing that caused things like Hulk and Abomination. Radiation can cause cancer.
That’s honestly what I thought it would be when I first heard about the cancer thing
One factor I think is related to Thor’s characterization struggles in the MCU is that they’re pretty clearly taking Hemsworth’s willingness to keep coming back to the role for granted.
Besides the Thanos arc, Downey and Evans’ clear desire to not be eternally bound to their Marvel contracts acted as a driving force toward advancing their characters each time they were used in a film in a set direction toward a given resolution.
With Thor, they’re just spinning their wheels because there isn’t really much of a behind the scenes imperative to resolve him as a character that would motivate directors and writers to do anything with him beyond make him comic relief.
He’s kind of the personification of the post-Endgame MCU. It’s all just kinda…there. Like playing side quests after you’ve completed the main game. There’s some nice bits but a general lack of direction that the series had (particularly in Phase 3, which not coincidentally, was the best stretch of films).
This is crazy
Very insightful and I think you’re spot on.
Kinda true but multiverse of madness wasn't great either even tho I recall benedict cumberbatch saying that he doesn't want to Play doctor Strange for ever because he doesn't want to be limited to the role or smth.
Chris himself wanted thor to be more comedic
You've summed up how I feel perfectly. We had the epic conclusion to the videogame story and even sat through the credits. Now we've been tossed back into the game world again but all the best characters are gone and all we can do now is wander around an empty world picking up things we don't really care about. It's time to let go and I have (with both marvel and star wars).
The thing I hated the absolute most while watching this was how painfully obvious it was that it was doing the "ok now its these 2 character's turn to talk with eachother"
The first thing I thought of when Thor shared his power is, boy that would have been really handy on the Asgardian ship. Don't think Thanos and kids would have fared so well against several thousand Thors and a Thor Hulk...
Stripping thor naked and objectifying him for revenge against the men who did it to women in past films just makes you as bad as the directors/writers that you're taking revenge on. Also, taking it out on Chris Hemsworth isn't the answer and two wrongs don't make a right. Be the bigger man/woman and don't repeat the actions of those you despise.
"As bad as the directors/writers that you're taking revenge on"... no, it doesn't. It makes you worse. Before we had the excuse that "sex sells and it is normal"... so those things would be considered fine, now "we" decided as a society that those ideas no longer apply, so the action becomes objectively worse since we are now "aware" of how "harmful" it is.
Also, to "take revenge" implies some sort of "evil intent" behind it, while in truth people were just a lot more ok with certain things in general... someone "Enlighted" by today's standards would've been seen as insane / extremely oversensitive in the past, not as a "better person" (by most men and women).... and by past I mean 15 years ago.
Let me put it this way: You could be a good person at heart and own a slave in ancient times since they didn't even have the concept of human rights (even tho the action on itself was always wrong , it was normal across all races and civilizations) ... there is ZERO way of being a good person at heart and owning slaves today (Tho disney will ignore it, it if gives them more money).
@@ricardokojin7 Well said.
This comment is invalid since Chris Hemsworth WANTED this scene to happen
@@Error_-ct2vp Even IF (big if) that is true, It doesn't matter...it is not about what he wants, it is about it how the viewers believe it is ok or not. It is about how we as a society accept sexualization for profit
@@ricardokojin7 Well said, the same thing could also be said about our generation by the generations that come after us. 30-40 years later, they might see certain things that we did as outrageous and immoral but we might call them insane or extremely oversensitive.
The problem with Love and Thunder is the same problem i had with Ragnorak, Taika for some reason decided to choose pretty serious storylines from the comics and turn them into comedy movies. Why use the God Butcher storyline for the backdrop of what's a rom-com movie? It doesn't make sense to me. Telling me you're gonna do Ragnarok, you know the end of Asgard and then follow that up with Gorr, i'm excited cuz i'm expecting something on the level and scale of Lord of the Rings for both movies. So just turning them into comedies is gonna automatically turn me off to the movies. Wanna do a rom-rom movie with Thor? Why not use Enchantress. Her whole thing is bewitching Thor and those around him. Toss in somebody like Ulik the Troll and there you go.
Problem is..Taika doesn't read comics..and is making movies to piss off people who do.. funny thing is, when asked about his bad comedic tone of Thor in L+T.. he used a tweet of someone defending him on this, showing a comic panel of him dancing with Luke cage.. problem.is..that was a Deadpool comic, and in Deadpool comics aren't so much Canon, he's always taking the piss of marvels heroes.. also, that scene, was when he was being mind controlled.. lol.. sadge..
@@darianstarfrog He did say he would ruin our mythos in a minute. He delivered.
Tbf Hemsworth was heavily disliking the character before Ragnarok and didn’t really want to continue the role.
Then Ragnarok came out where he was able to have fun with the character, and now he wants to continue the role until they don’t want him to.
So if Ragnarok was planned to be a serious movie like TDW, Thor would probably be out of the MCU by now.
@@vinny9256 honestly that's what I wanted, for Thor to get a proper trilogy and send off in Endgame with the rest of the avengers, instead we got...Taika completely disregarding all that made Thor: his friends, his family, his home, his values, his development.
@@vinny9256 Nothing wrong with leaving a character if he's disinterested with it, the problem that I see is that Hemsworth is now Thor much more than an actual actor, see people nowadays can't differentiate the actors from their characters cuz it's the only one they've ever seen for such a long time from him... some even say it's all he's got and without it he'll fall off faster than Waititi dropping the ball on this movie.
When it comes to giving the power to the kid's thing I took it as he realized after unknowingly giving the hammer its command to protect jane, that he could give the power to thor to others as a result, which, sort of... makes sense. as the hammer WAS originally given its designation that only someone that's worthy of thors hammer can possess the power of thor as a test for thor himself, it makes sense that after the death of odin, the new sole owner of the hammer would be that of thor, so basically with that he basically unlocked master control for the hammer and can make it do whatever the hell he wants now. Of course, the hammer was given the subcommand to protect her before odin died if I'm remembering correctly so maybe he only had partial control over the hammer in terms of its full abilities since he was worthy mixed with the fact he didn't know this power existed, to begin with, explains how it occurred as well as why he doesn't use it as an end-gaming powerup for all his friends in every movie, considering he only realized his hammer had this ability up till now.
of course, obviously, this is ALL a HUGE leap and is stretching so many lines for this to make only kind of sense so ya, he had no idea what the fuck he was doing with this. Sticking to making jokes in the writing room is all I have to say about this director honestly. you clearly can't handle anything other than that.
We can not pretend that Hemsworth didn’t read the script. He could have said “Hell, no”. There is no way that he could objectively read it, and said “This is how I envisioned my character”. At some point integrity has to come in to play, but the paycheck superseded it.
(Months late I know)
My hope was that CH was contracted to doing a certain number of films and did this just to get out of the contract
Contracts have a funny way of convincing people to do and say things they would likely not under normal circumstances.🤷♂️
I remember an interview with him where he said everyone one set had too much fun filming they didn't realize what was being made, if I remember correctly he said that they wished they were more serious (again this is from memory so I could be wrong)
The paycheck was indeed hefty to be sure
1 word: contracts
For a minor rewrite. The gods could've been scattered around their respective domains (which explains why Thor didn't call on them during the infinity war, lack of time to gather them) and when Thanos did the snap, it wiped out half of them. Scaring them into not believing themselves invincible any longer. Now with this rising threat of Gorr, they've gathered for protection in Zeus's kingdom (omnipotent city). With a final reference to how easy it was for Thor and the gang to break in, they would be terrified to the point of irrationality and caused them to not go out with Thor and attack Gorr as one. Boom.
That’s actually way better than what we got (and that’s coming from someone who liked the movie)
That's...That's... actually really good
@@bgcm1995 thanks
should've been on the writing team.....
Banger
It would have been interesting and shock value if Gorr killed the children he kidnapped, leaving Axel as the sole survivor, and to mock Thor, using it to further his claim and hate towards gods and how they fail to protect. Also, how does Korg have 2 dads? In the previous film, he mentioned having a mom and her boyfriend, whom he both hates greatly.
Edit: Everyone can now stop talking about the two dads scenario now. Most of the replies focus too much on that part of the comment.
They didn’t care for most things from the past.
THANK YOU. I mean jeez I would be fine if it was that way from the beginning but he literally said that. Taika HIMSELF said those line.
The director is following Disney's formula about homosexuality and I hate how Disney plus is pushing that crap way too much.
@@Thespeedrap You mean that "Homosexuality in name only" crap, give a couple background characters a couple lines about how they have a boyfriend or some gas, just make Korg gay, make him super fucking gay but Disney won't because a lot of anti-gay countries like Marvel movies I guess. So progressive!
@@mr.alpharius6409 of course.
I have all of the confidence that What We Do in the Shadows' success is due to Jemaine's involvement and not Taika's.
You can clearly tell which parts of the show can be attributed to which person.
Noooo you can't just say that and not expand on it a bit more?? Or at least tell me where I'd find more writing on Clement, I don't know much about him
It's weird that Dr Strange 2 took Wanda more seriously and made her much more of a threat than Gorr. Honestly not the plot twist of 2022 I was looking for
Scarlet Witch is one of the most popular characters in Marvel. I knew Gorr was just a throway character.
@@meia1855 Gorr is so popular too in the comics, Taika just didn't know what to do with him
Wanda was written like shit in MoM, but at least she was threatening for a while (no matter how dumb it was)
She’s a wasted villain imo. Scarlet witch should’ve been an Avenger level of threat, not Dr Strange alone. That woman is thousand times stronger than Thanos and can erase the X-men on her own. In Wandavision, it should’ve set up a good villain origin for her but instead trying to make her sound like a hero “sacrificing” for people 🤦🏻♀️
Because Raimi is actually a good director
I love the story of the misbehaving child. A perfect analogy. After greatly appreciating his earlier work I've grown to now despise Taika Waiti. He has become a one-trick pony and the next M Night Shyamalan.
Agreed. Actually enjoyed Free Guy, to me he also has a very punchable face.
Seems Waiti is the next Rian Johnson where he excels more at original works than franchises?
I would’t go that far since Reservoir dogs was great and i’ve heard great things about Our flag means that. I think he’s just stretched too thin.
Reservoir Dogs?
That's of *Tarantino*
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
My friend in college always had beef with Tessa Thompson’s acting so its extra hilarious to realize how much of the rest of the world has caught on 😂. I always thought she was decent at least
I don't get Tessa Thompson either. She can't really act but then she's not so beautiful that all she has to do is stand there and be hot. Whar is the point with her?
It could have been cool to have a team of Gods heading off to fight Neco-Wayne.
It wasnt Stormbreaker that opened the gate; it's the Bifrost. Stormbreaker just happens to be able to open the Bifrost.
You cant objectify Thor with the excuse "but you did it to women in the past", either its acceptable or its not. If "They did it, so now they get it" flies; then anything is permissible.
21:43 Excuse me, but both sides are not right.
There's no such thing as acceptable vengeance when your victim is an innocent person. Chris Hemsworth said this scene made him very uncomfortable and Taikai Watiti admitted that he had to pressure Chris into it.
If we can say it's wrong when a woman is put in that situation, putting a man in that situation is not suddenly right. It's still the situation of an actor being treated like a piece of meat by the production team. It's not men against women. It's tyrannical producers and directors misbehaving with their workers, male and female.
Exactly. Dehumanizing modern men to appease modern women (who aren't being dehumanized, at least not in the western world) is the worst brand of social "justice."
Perfectly stated. I was going to make a similar response to this effect but decided to scroll the comment section to see if someone already did. You succinctly summed up my thoughts and saved me roughly three minutes, so thanks. 👍
Totally agree. Waititi actually pressured Hemsworth similarly in _Ragnarok_ playing it off as "yes, you actually are a piece of meat" joke. It shouldn't be happening to any actors regardless of sex. Waititi's immature attitude to basically anything might have looked refreshing but it overstayed its welcome.
🤷
Just to jump in here - I don’t disagree with this, and in fact, the point I made - or tried to make - in the review wasn’t predicated on taking a side. I think the problem with both arguments is selective outrage. On the one hand, people who’ve spent years happily enjoying films that do this with women have become very upset that it’s being done to Thor. They (rightly) point to the double standard on which the other side’s argument is based - these are the people who ordinarily argue against objectification per se but selectively disapply that standard when a male character is objectified, on the grounds that the former group has spent years happily enjoying the objectification of women. Ergo, to them, “acceptable vengeance.”
The problem is we’ve all become more prudish without developing any consistent system of thought to support it. My own view is that sexual objectification is universal and natural, and attempts to yeet it from art and culture - kickstarted by Feminists, it must be said - are innately flawed. The key consideration, as you’ve mentioned, is the question of consent.
"Taika Waititi doesn't care"
This line sums up pretty much everything
I like how the kidnapped children all have pokerfaces, like they were kidnapped with their smartphones and didn’t care at all.
Considering comics Gorr killed his own wife when she compared him to a god, I find the idea that the power of love convinced Gorr to abandon his quest to be… ridiculous. Comics Gorr would’ve either been enraged or find it hilarious before returning to his evil plan.
I remember trying to defend thor's character back in endgame because, while he was reduced to a big lebowski ripoff, I still viewed him as the same Thor we saw during ragnarok and infinity war. While used as a punchline, he was still the over-serious himbo asgardian we had come to know and love over the trauma he endured during the first saga of the mcu. One reason why I was so disappointed with Love and Thunder was because Thor, the god of thunder, was reduced to Chris Hemsworth playing a muppet trying to impress an ex. The outfit he changed into when he first saw Jane as Mighty Thor was goofy and disjointed with it sadly becoming his outfit for the rest of the film. His facial expressions and hair styling was used solely for comic relief, never to advance the character like it did in Ragnarok. I guess I miss when Thor was made fun of for being a too-serious Asgardian and jokes flying over his head, not for being just a general idiot.
Put my thoughts into words right there - what made ragnarok a fun goofy movie was that you could still somewhat connect to thor as a lovable himbo, because that builds on his fish-out-of-water arc, but this movie just reduced him to an idiot with comical facial expressions, bickering with his axe....like cmon man..
The same things you are seeing now are why I didn't like Thor from Endgame. They ceased to take the character seriously at all at that point, if not before. You can't simultaneously portray him as pitiable and also a fat clown to be made sport of. It's trying to do tragedy and comedy at the same time. It doesn't work.
So… you don’t want character growth? You just want the characters to remain the same all the time? Seems boring
@@hitthegoat ¿En serio eres tan idiota? Mantener la esencia de un personaje (respetar los principios básicos de cómo funciona el ser humano, con una psicología creíble y un arco sólido) no tiene nada que ver con que "el personaje sea igual todo el tiempo". Tanto Thor como Loki, por ejemplo, cambiaron en las primeras películas sin perder la esencia: Thor pasa de ser un joven arrogante que no se detiene a pensar en las consecuencias de sus actos a un hombre mucho más sabio y reflexivo; Loki tiene un arco dirigido a pensar más en los demás y ver cómo puede alcanzar sus objetivos egoístas por un camino heroico. No hace falta destruir por completo lo que eran para que haya evolución y se mantengan interesantes.
@@hitthegoat You say that as if it's impossible to do character development terribly.
One thing I will say in defence of the goats existing is in Norse Mythology, Thor has a chariot pulled by two rams, so that was a neat reference to the original mythology. The fact that the were screaming goats was definitely overplayed.
Would it help if the goats doesn't scream at all?
@@georgeray1906 Yes
Its a sad attempt. Thors goats were used as food and revived every morning. But they didnt stick with anything else really so lol
@@ELeeHamm No. Mythology is simple minded people trying to explain what they don't understand. He didn't really need to have goats in the MCU because he's not doing a 1:1 of the Norse mythology.
@@pascalsimioli6777 Mythology is dope though
The worst part wasn’t the 1000 jokes but that not a single one was funny 🤣
Taika did a talk in dubai i think. The first thing he said was the i just flew in, boy my arms are tired joke. Then explains the joke...
I do have a problem with “Might Thor” as she shouldn’t be called Thor, Because it’s Thors name that’s not a mantle that’s the dudes name.
Thank you!
This.
I also feel the same about Valkyrie… but for the opposite reason. Her name is Valkyrie? Is she… the only one? Like I realize they are not just making a Norse mythology film, but why name her after a GROUP when there are so many appropriate figures whose names you can plagiarize?
@@KhorneBrzrkr Same reason Thor states one moment that he always looked up to the Valkyries since he was a child, and then says “about time a female fighting force existed” or some woke shit like that. Because Waititi is a moron who can’t bother to study what he’s writing for.
Yeah but the spell on the hammer basically says whosoever is worthy will be Thor
@@Dariusissocool “Will have the powers of Thor”, there is a difference between gaining powers and appropriating someone’s name as your own. Steve Rogers was still Steve/ Cpt America while holding the hammer.
Thor: The Dark World was just held down by a bad villain, it really wasn't a bad movie. I miss serious Thor
Christopher Eccleston deserved so much better than what the writing did for him.
Finally, someone who sees that The Dark World isn't bad
Thor, who is not only an asgardian god but a royalty among them, has been reduced to a court jester. Now, he DOES NOT exude authority, royal princely or kingly image, majesty, or awesome godliness. He is just portrayed as a dumb clown.
Ikr. Thor Was supposed to loosen up a bit an become more introspective, more aware with his place in the world and wisened by his experience. Thor was a chracter that was just as stoic a warrior as any good Sword and Sorcery characters, he hearkend to them while also having a tinge of warrior philosopher. In his recent films? He is super hero squad Thor.
Boring garbage movie
if that was his real singing voice.... goddamn the thirst is too strong for someone i havent even seen the face of. I'm upset with myself at this point
Great video. Entertaining and illuminating. You have this unique way of crystallizing the vague notions that I always leave with after having watched some of these movies. When I don't like something, I sometimes can't quite put the "why" into words. You are talented at bringing that into focus, so thank you very much for your efforts.
Every MCU movie Waititi touches seems to have the same problem with humor.
The larger problem is that as the universe expands, it becomes less and less plausible that you can split the superheroes up. Why would the other heroes not show up in a Thor adventure? What about a Spiderman adventure? With interconnected stories, it becomes impossible to have standalone stories, doesn't it?
Indeed. It’s spiralling out of control and it’s becoming increasingly difficult to see how it could be put back together again.
Every? He's only done 2
@@ninjanibba4259 more than enough
@@anom6707 no argument there, it’s time for someone else to take care of Thor and give him the treatment he deserves, I was seriously excited to see this movie cuz the trailer gave me fun but wholesome vibes, meaning I thought Thor would be on a quest while becoming the hero and finding his confidence again….
@@ninjanibba4259 agreed I thought it be more of finding self and relate to some ppl that feel lost and everything and bring more depression elements of the cancer and of the time we have left with the ppl we love it felt bland but funny ngl
My greatest pain I felt within this film is that Thor is, without a doubt, the single most tragic character in the MCU... but he's routinely just played up for laughs.
The man loses his father, his brother not once but twice, just about all of his friends, the love of his life *TO CANCER.* Thor just keeps losing the people who are closest to him, over and over, and over again. Everytime he really starts connecting with people, they die or disappear. Like, how about the Guardians? Theyre his pals, right? He's had heart-to-hearts with Starlord, Rocket, Groot (who even gave his ARM for Stormbreaker to be forged btw)? Nope, this movie shows us they think he's cringe and want nothing to do with him, ditching him ASAP. So, even THOSE friends leave him.
The closest we ever got to addressing any of this was the bitter, depressed Thor we got in Endgame... which wasn't ever used to explore Thor's constant loss of all that's dear to him, but was instead a vehicle to make fun of him for being fat. Because, of course, as we all know, fat shaming *is* funny -- Disney certainly thinks so...
Doesnt Bruce Banner have a pretty rough time aswell, among other things attempting to Thanos snap himself with a bullet, only for Hulk to spit it back out
@@themug406
Banner's struggle with depression is pretty intense, but the MCU doesn't clown on him. They give him a *beautiful* girlfriend who he has a very stable relationship with, who seems to genuinely care for him as a person and not just as a giant green might machine. He makes deep and personal friendships, he's never really tokenized in the way he fears he would be -- in Avengers 1 he *fully* suspects, even *understands* that S.H.I.E.L.D brought him in because they want Hulk, not Banner. Over course of the films, that self depreciating view, that view of "They want Hulk, not me" is flipped on its head for the most part. *MOST* people want *BANNER* which, seemingly, has quite a positive effect *ON* him, since his suicidal tendencies slip off...
_Until Thor: Ragnarok decides to play that shit for laughs..._ but then, that just circles around to what I was saying about Thor.
Fat shaming is funny only if you are men.
The most damning indictment of this film is that I haven't watched it, but I do know the story because I watched four or five scene clips on CZcams. That gave me enough information to know how all the relevant characters began, their arcs across the film, the major action moments and where everybody is by the end. It also basically skipped all the jokes, and therefore I'm in a better position than anybody who actually _watched_ the film as a whole.
The one saving grace, I think, is that none of the events in the film actually happened the film depicts them. It's all told from the perspective of the narrator, Korg, who is - by definition - both unreliable and possessing of a weak, childish sense of humour. Which is to say...he has Taika Waititi's sense of humour, because he _is_ Taika Waititi's self-insert character. This is the only way in which what's left of the MCU can be saved from the wreckage that L&T leaves in its wake.
Every criticism I made of Ragnarok, lots of people didn't agree with and then replicated that criticism almost exactly for Love and Thunder, which thanks to my reaction to Ragnarok matched my expectations well and therefore couldn't disappoint or surprise me.
I was surprised that people were shocked by how bad Love and Thunder was. I mean, Taika was praised for doing this to the Thor franchise. Isn't This what people wanted?
Anyone else wanted to throw their popcorn/drinks at the screen when the scene with the powered up kids happened? Great way to make the villain and movie look like a joke when 5 year olds are fighting better than all the adults in the movie 😡
That was beyond dumb.
Honestly that was one of the few things that I liked. It made sense to me that Thor could give power to others, it was kinda foreshadowed by him unknowingly placing the enchantment on Mjolnir to protect Jane, and it is very similar to what Odin did with Thor's own power in the first movie. Also, it felt really funny that Thor was actually using child soldiers, way funnier that all the "jokes" in the movie.
It was absurd. But after how absurd the entire movie was, I allowed myself to embrace it lol
@@hugotrojanovsky7667 yeah, in Endgame, Cap gains the power of Thor whilst wielding Mjolnir, and enchantment of various items has been shown to be a skill that a lot of Asgardians have, so the actual principle is fine in that scene.
Why did you pay money to watch that obvious trash?
The tragedy is that Waititi is a talented filmmaker who can balance the ridiculous with the heartfelt - JoJo Rabbit is the perfect example. But Waititi with the MCU is like a chimp with a machine gun.
So much wasted potential in this movie, especially with the cancer subplot. A lot of moral and difficult questions were left unexplored here.
Great video! Subscribed.
Welcome aboard!
Waititi with the MCU is like Slippin Jimmy with a law degree
What a sick joke
This chicanery? He's done worse...
And HE gets to be a filmmaker??? WHAT A SICK JOKE
You put into eloquent words allll the issues I have with the MCU phase 4 and this movie in particular 😭😭 I wish the writers had put even a fraction of the thought that you had into these films!!
Movies like Spider-Man 2 feel like a lifetime ago, and it hasn't even been twenty years.
I'd like to point out that Crowe's portrayal of Zeus is... actually pretty accurate!
Sleazy, cheauvinistic, arrogant... sounds exactly like Zeus to me.
I've got a couple of questions:
-are we supposed to think gods are actually a thing in the MCU now? I mean, the first movies made a point in telling us that asgardians are not gods, but aliens, but now we have pantheons and, apparently, the asgardian one was one too... gods or aliens?
-is it just me or the whole "share the power with the kids" appears to be an obvious plagiarsm to Shazam?
-why isn't Taika Watiti unenployed after movies such as this one?
It's accurate in terms of our world's mythology. Not Marvels mythology. Though, the argument can be made that the MCU isn't 616. Although Waititi doesn't give a shit about any of that.
He generally doesn't care about anything in the MCU.
@@BeardedDanishViking sad but true... what is it with big companies and hiring directors & co that don't know/don't care about the franchises they are going to work with?
The thing with gods in the marvel universe as a whole is....inconsistent. Like Azazel is ancient but claims to be just one of the first mutants, cast away in hell by angelic like mutants, there he tried to conquer the throne of hell. Satan and Mephisto on the other hands are pretty much just demons in the universe and they are said to have fallen from the grace of Heaven.
Then you got the asgardians that are said to only be aliens with advanced technology and superior genetics. But you also have the Egyptian Pantheon that interact and behave/have powers like gods and also claim to be gods.
It seems like the MCU has the same problem, different writers have different ideas of what are the gods and how to use them
@@catalin2766 it could very much be that the Egyptian gods believe themselves to be gods when in actuality they're just more aliens
His real name is Taika David Cohen and he will exploit his jewish/minority status whenever it suits him. There's your answer.
The Loki that Thor grieved for is dead as far as we know. The Loki who stars in the TV series is a variant from 2012. He might as well be from a different universe for all the connection he has to the main timeline's Thor.
Wait, doesn’t he come back in Endgame? He snatches the Tesseract in the time-travel sequence and disappears.
I disagree...the Loki from Thor is the real core character. Everything is just a cartoonist gimmick..especially The Avengers. You just don't like MORE of the gimmick. Loki is Loki.
@@TheLittlePlatoon in Endgame, that's the 2012 Loki that nabs the cube and gets away, BUT it doesn't really matter considering in the span of an episode Loki is already unforgettably identical to our "Original" Loki. Basically, they ate their cake and kept it too.
@@grngrn7319 They stopped caring about continuity quite a while ago
@@grngrn7319 Loki's character development in the Disney+ show is a mess. However that's not the point of my comment. TVA version of Loki is entirely detached from Thor from Love and Thunder. If he wants to have a tattoo dedicated to his dead brother, that fine, because Loki is dead to him. No character in the main timeline is aware of the TVA.
The scarlet witch: went crazy cuz she mourned so deeply the loss of vision. Dreamed up a couple kids, and tries to kill dr. strange cuz the dream kids.
Vision:😮
Why doesn't she just track down the new vision that downloaded his mind?
The Critical Drinker: "Dont know!"
To put it simply, I would sum up Thor: Love and Thunder like this: It isn't a terrible movie on its own, aside from the frequent bad humor I don't have any huge issues with it. Unfortunately though, the greatest problem with Thor: Love and Thunder is the issues it creates for the MCU when looking at phases 1-3, as well as potentially where the MCU goes moving forward. It's like they forgot this film was connected to an entire universe of other movies altogether.
Let's just sink in part of the villains story.
Guy lost his daughter so to avenge her, he kindapps kids...
Okey... Somebody got payed your lifetime payment to actually write that script.
Yeah, but it was for a Reason. That reason was to bring Thor to his Realm so he could take the Stormbreaker/Bifrost from him!
@@danielramsey6141 yes the reason being to prove that some gods actually care Hhahahahahah, what a dumb script
Reminds me of Big Hero 6's main villain
@@danielramsey6141 wouldnt thor coming to save the kids disprove Gor motivation that god dont care?
Also, it slightly more subtile. Because he could have killed all the gods kids here and there if he wanted to. But he spare them. So it's a clue to say that they inconsciently reminds him of his daughter. And it implies there's still good within him.
Regarding soft magic systems: You absolutely can introduce a soft magic system wherever you want to, even in the fourth movie of a series. But you HAVE to follow Sanderson's 1st Law, which is basically "Don't use soft magic to solve problems." Create problems, absolutely-- solve them, no.
Brilliant point. An awful lot of this comes down to whether or not said magic is integral to the plot. I’ll have to go look up Mr(?) Sanderson.
The first law is specifically: "An author's ability to solve conflict with magic is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to how well the reader understands said magic."
If the readers don't understand the magic system, they won't understand the stakes.
Sanderson is awesome!
Brandon Sanderson
You can, but wiyhth some logic. If Thor imbued kids with power of Zeus we wouldnt make a fuss. Gandalf solved many problems with magic but always with some consequences. He saved fellowship from balrog but he died, he got reborn but he is different character etcetc. You have to have checks and balances
The scene where Hymdal's son wants to be called Axle is to program parents to allow their children to choose their gender and be called their new name.
Love and respect the hell out of your vids brother, keep up the great work.
What really screws me up with this Jane as Thor, Odin told Thor "Are you Thor the God of hammers? It was never your source of power. It just helped you to focus it." So how did Mojnir give Jane powers??
And if thor could suddenly give away his powers to those kids why didn't he do that in infinity war or endgame? Or any of the other movies
The same way it gave powers to Cap in Endgame or to Thor himself in first Thor movie. Waititi pulled this crap out of his ass in Ragnarok and contradicted the first movie and the comics. And then in Love and Thunder he went and contradicted his own previous movie. The guy is a clown and he doesn't give a fuck.
Didn't Odin also cast magic to Mjolnir in the first Thor movie when he threw away wherein he said something along the lines that whoever is worthy enough to hold the hammer, will be granted the powers of Thor??
The Spell Odin casted on Mjolnir gives any person worthy of wilding it the powers of Thor. That's the spell, and that's why it's activated alongside the spell Thor casted on it. That spell also implies that Thor has his own thunder powers of his own. That's what he found out during Ragnarok, and has been perfecting after it.
@@riahw3750 He probably wasn't in tune with his powers that much as he is now, or maybe it was enabled to that magnitude thanks to Thunderbolt itself.
I was so disappointed when Korg survived being stabbed by Zeus's lightning bolt
Making anything nonsense ultimately nothing matters if Zeus bolt doesn't kill u meanwhile in comics its other stories.
@@words007 tf did you mean by this
@@words007 i had a stroke reading this
@@itsyo8871 lol, i dont remember writing this, maybe i was drunk 🤔 all i know is i hated the movie and my buddies hated it as well. 🤣
Extremely well done, sir. Keep 'em coming!
As a parent there is one primary reason you have multiple spawn.
When they get free the fourth time, you just let them go. You have a spare.
So glad someone finally pointed out the phenomenon of Thor's repeated character arch in practically EVERY movie he's ever been in.
Taika Waiti's style is just a way of seeming quirky and unique whilst also appealing to the lowest common denominator and being viable on the mass market.
Sounds like an Adam Sandler movie
Christian Bale saved this movie. Take him out & it’s very forgettable. And he’s barely even in it as is so that’s saying a lot.
His humor is just slapstick and “hee hoo look how dumb the characters are”
Sounds like the modern media meta.
Sounds like a transformer movie
Was bummed that Jane couldn't just get Mjolnir because she's worthy, like we have established and reinforced throughout.
Being real, that is maybe a bigger aspect of Thor as pertains to his character and role, than his own character.
It had to be undercut by the reasoning actually being the man who gave her Mjolnir, rather than her own merits.
It is BAFFLING that hundreds of millions of dollars doesnt get you more substance than this
One thing I will defend this movie from is your critique of Zeus’ depiction. It’s pretty damn accurate to the legends that Zeus is a horny asshole. It’s like his WHOLE thing.
ikr i was ecstatic to see a faithful zeus depiction for once. The entire movie was a miss but this atleast hit the mark spot on
@@coolbeans5911 Even Zeus' occasional descent into a bad "It'sa spicy meatball" Italian accent at times?
@@coolbeans5911 he was a r*pey kinda horny, not a dude who has women and men around his arm for fear his wife would kill them (ala, medusa). Russell crow sucks anyway
True but Zeus is rarely depicted as an overweight and feminine god who seems weak and not scary at all. That’s what people are missing. They reduced Zeus from a tough, menacing looking god to Russel Crowe wearing a tutu
@@lakerfan0243 agree, the tutu part waa cringe
This took a brief break from critically analyzing the film to breaking down Taika's psychological profile and exposing his insecurities.
Subbed
Glad to have you aboard!
@@TheLittlePlatoon You and Critical Drinker came up with funny insults for this joke of a film.
You: Necro Wayne, Tessa Thompsoms one facial expression
Critical Drinker: CGI Natalie Port person
@@Thomasmemoryscentral Love the nickname Necro Wayne, though I've heard it was actually the best performance in the movie.
@@RanMouri82 it is but that's not saying much
@@TheLittlePlatoon agreed it’s a great video….did you done for Multiverse of madness? I can’t seem to find it ?
Its so upsetting because Jane Foster Thor is supposed to be the darker, more relatable Thor. Like she is just a mortal who is rising to the challenge, even with cancer and knowing she will die, and unlike Thor, doesnt have an immortal soul
love your stuff man. deep dives and your mindset, you and drinker are my favorite by a mile
47:07 "The film views sincerity as its enemy." That's a pithy but fantastic criticism. The most sincerity happens in the opening scene and then the rest of the runtime is spent apologizing for making us feel any emotion.
Agreed, it was well-put. Sincerity requires vulnerability, but if that's not allowed, the movie ends up shallow.
Christian Bale as the phase 4 villain could've been brilliant, you're right.
He could've been built as this menacing unstoppable force with the single goal to destroy thor.
Thor could've needed all of the Avengers (whatever's left of them) to keep him safe from Christian Bale.
The Avengers could've had to make the choice between defending thor and saving pantheons of unknown gods.
Those stakes seem a little underwhelming for more than one or two movies
I still feel like the Mandarin in Iron Man 3 was one of the best twists they did with the MCU. Build him up as this threatening, powerful villain. Only to then turn him into an actor that is hired to play villain. The twist villain that turns out to be neither a villain nor of any significance at all.
Love your review, however I couldn't help but notice some mistakes.
1. The Necro sword didn't just HAPPEN to be there. It's said in the movie that the Sword actually called for Bruce Wayne to come get it, after its previous owner was killed. During that scene when Bale kills the God, the Sword came over to his hand and whispered to him to kill all Gods, it wasn't just lying around and Bale took it by chance. The Sword looked for another host and brought him there.
2. Still about the Necro Sword, it is said in the movie that the Sword corrupts its host. There is a clear difference between Cristian Bale's character because that's how it is supposed to be. In the beginning he is the humble father who wants to save hia daughter. After using the Necro Sword, he becomes this corrupt entity who will eventually die for using this sword. In the end of the movie after the sword is broken and they reach Eternity, Bale's character slowly returns to his normal self after seeing Thor embrace Natalie Portman. The sword's corruption fades away and he returns to his original character. I thought this was pretty obvious but it is actually annoying to see you summarize it as another "director quirk" rather than understanding what it is all about. This movie has more flaws than anything, but these are not mistakes at least from the movie's perspective. Agreed on everything else though
I'm 100% convinced that the whole Astrid/Axel bit was supposed to be some kind of commentary on transgenderism. This kid changed his name at some point when Thor wasn't around, and then Thor struggles to accept it, but the kid demands he call him his new name, until the rock guy (I can never remember his name) basically yells Thor to just call him the new name, so he does.
That entire bit was completely meaningless and had no purpose at all, unless you look at it from the lens of trying to be some kind of pro-trans message or something.
Idk, I could be wrong, but that's how I saw it.
when Jane said "I have cancer" to Thor I legitimately broke out into one of the hardest laughing fits I've ever had, but then almost immediately had to restrain myself from laughing because I was the only one in the full theater that found it funny :(
That sound's like huge fuckup on writting end.
It was genuinely hilarious
@@Chasling_ nope
Evil
@@petrfedor1851 nope