@@eduardopipinel This wasn’t before professionalism. The post-Alexandrian period had some of the most professional armies ever in the history of mankind. The Early Middle Ages killed professionalism in the west for a while, but then it re-emerges with the rise of the man-at-arms.
Many people in the comment section complain about how easily the phalanx formations broke apart, but to me this looks like an example of how hard it is not to break battle formation in real life. Humans are not NPCs from Total War games after all.
Most humans aren't actively suicidal. The attention-seeking jumping around slamming into each other is therefore most probably highly unrealistic, and it's what caused the majority of the loss of order shown in the video.
I would attribute the phalanx breaking apart more due to the lack of training on the part of the participants and a absence of any real "fear" to keep them huddled together in numbers for strength. When you're playing at war there are probably different motivators at work when c compared to actual war scenarios.
You cannot have or keep a formation with such a few men. The strength of the phalanx comes from several consecutive rows of men, which prevent the line being pushed through.
@@sunpallinkarvat no, they could maintain a formation but maybe they are just amateurs or bad or don't care, anyway the video is cool would only be better with a formation hehe
@@greengrassisgood most of the greek cities militaries were as unprofessional as these guys. still, they'd be a little more careful being at risk of actually dying
They had at least one war and battle ecperience , dont forget the many mercenaries who was professionals also fighting for their cities or that after the peloponnesian war many men the only art they knew was the art of war in the greek penninsula specially in the poleis world. Greece as a land lost its warfare after the Romans. The pike and also most ugly was the peloponnesian war time following by the diadochi wars but there the main battlefields and powers was outside of Greece , still with much men power came from Greece .
@alessandro benvenuti, that is not how gallic warriors fought. There is no way they would have terrorised the whole mediterranean world, and be bought as mercenaries in each and every army around that sea.
I know, but mine was a joke because it’s common knowledge that the celts were trashed by Caesar and the roman emperors that sucseeded him. The gauls were scary and brave fows, but not disciplined. My joke was an exaggeration of this feature.
@TheCrazyKid1381 actually baltic tribes are ancient ppl who keeped their language and culture for tousand years. byt this what they showd is realy bad fight in phalanx. if ppl cant take critique to improve themselfs, than its childish
TheCrazyKid1381 ‘scythians huns and other steppe people’ from that generalising comment of nomadic cultures, i wouldnt consider your opinion over the OPs even if Jupiter himself told me to.
@themailman43 Dude, first of all i am Greek and i have PERFECT knowledge of my country's history. There is no such thing as Spartans hating Greeks because Spartans were Greeks. Its like me saying Texans (from Texas) hate Americans. Choose your words wisely next time. Only in the time of civil war between city states, Spartans didn't like other city states. We are very touchy on this matter because during the last decades, several nations around us, are trying to steel our countries history although they were never in the region back in the ancient world.
@themailman43 Spartans hated Atheneans. That is not the same as hating all Greeks especially since "Greece" wasn't a thing back then. You are a history ignorant.
@@VirtualVictoryTM The main problem with being cool and holding it at your waist (arced upwards) is, that you can hit the enemy's shield, legprotection or helmet. That''s it. If you hold it high (either grip) pointing downwards you can reach over the shield. This allows to hit the guy behind the shield.
I think this is a very realistic vision of how inexperienced hoplites might fight. Relative loose formation and looing it altogether. Upon crashing one guy even ran ahead one his own, only to be pushed back.
I don't think there was something a "inexperienced hoplites". If your armies use a formation that relies so heavily on discipline, I don't think that you'd get away with breaking formation. If you charged off and survived, you'd probably be executed for endangering yourself and your allies.
True. But a lot of hoplites would have been inexperienced as they were not professionals. I think the order would have been maintained with deeper ranks and putting experienced troops on the flanks. Essentially boxing in the front line soldiers to stay with the group. Would also explain why armies were so quick to route
@@VirtualVictoryTM That's in the city of Hyère in southern France. I saw myself one of their reenactment in the archaeological site of Olbia. That was not that impressive, but they are just amator reenactment not done by professional.
The right flank charge at 1:47 was amazing! I don't know what those guys on the left flank were doing breaking from the formation and moved back. I guess they didn't want to die too early in the battle or tried to defend the formation from flanking attackers because it looked like the left side army formation was a little smaller then the right side.
Seriously now just try to imagine a fight like this for real...no wonder most fights in history were won by pure bravery I mean the first to break is the one to lose...you can see it even here ...amazing!!! That’s why the biggest winners in history had ether a great leader of a great goal
If you watch the ride side of the formation on the team that advanced from the right, that was a very good phalanx charge. They charged with shields locked and in a line. The rest broke formation and would've caused the battle to be lost.
Its kinda educational to see how an real ancient combat would end quickly and relatively bloodless because if your life was on the line and you felt like your were loosing by just a little bit how fast the line would disintegrate and rout
Do you think it was really bloodless? This made me think people in frontline would just get shredded in the first moments of the battle! Not a historian tho
@@tomking5290 for sure the front was a meat grinder. there were battles fought with such bravery and hate that they had to be chronicled. Masses of people dying upright from the mounds of corpses piled so high, people fighting on top of the fallen and the like. But for the most part, the countless skirmishes fought throughout time must have been fought with a kind of self preservation that made retreat a priority
@Eduardo Kiryu Most of the killing happened when a unit would rout because they would then get mowed down by cavalry and skirmishers, assuming this wasn't just a phalanx vs phalanx battle.
Que pensez de cette vidéo... Je me permets quelques commentaires, sans prétendre que ces derniers soient véridiques, mais issus d'un passionné d'histoire qui donne simplement son point de vue : J'ai cru comprendre que l'affrontement opposait deux "associations", dont la Française Hoplitai en Galatia à droite. Certaines remarques ne vous concerneront surement pas alors. En ce qui concerne le matériel de reconstitution : vraiment top, des superbes linothorax, grèves (cnémides), casques corinthiens (bien qu'il soit trop présent), des aspis de 'bonne' taille. On retrouve une certaine disparité dans les costumes (peut-être pas assez), véridique au temps de l'antiquité. Le hoplite devait payer lui même son équipement, attention toutefois à la multiplicité des cimiers. Bien qu'il est difficile de retrouver des sources tangibles, il est admis que le cimier en crin de chevale symbolise d'une certaine manière le rang social mais aussi militaire du porteur. Alors je suis d'accord, ça claque, c'est imposant, c'est beau... mais doucement (je sais bien que cet élément ne dépend que du bon vouloir des personnes). Concernant la formation : je reste dubitatif et déçu je dois l'admettre... la formation phalange reste globalement respectée à l'arrêt. Toutefois, dès qu'il est question de mouvement, c'est la débandade. Personne ne va à la même allure, certains romps les rangs au premier contact. La formation phalange en contact, à durée quelques secondes tout au plus et ne reflète en rien la prétendue réalité historique. Toutefois, est-ce un reflet, reflex de la réalité. Historiquement seul les Spartiates étaient formés à la guerre, à disposer d'une véritable armée de métier. Mettons nous dans la peau d'un jeune artisan Athéniens devant se mobiliser pour défendre sa 'patrie' face aux perses. Aurais-je le temps nécessaire pour me réapproprier mes formations militaires (éphébie)? telle est la question. Toutefois, en l'état, si le but rechercher est bien de démontrer le fonctionnement d'une phalange, arrêtez tout et entraînez vous longuement. La discipline est la clé. Pour l'instant, une mêlée de rugby est plus représentative que cette démonstration je le crains. Autres remarques : essayez d'avoir un front linéaire en premier rang avec des hoplites ayant une taille similaire afin d'éviter le phénomène des frères Dalton. Mettre également les soldats les mieux protégés (casques, lino, éventuellement brassards mais surtout Cnémides) au premier rang. Stop aux archers grecques avec des casques corinthiens. Les peltastes sont généralement devant ou sur les côtés à courir partout pour harceler les troupes ennemies. Bon je suppose que vous n'aviez pas bcp d'espace pour faire une énorme bataille donc bon... :) Voilà, ne prenez surtout pas mal ces remarques. Je reste envieux de votre démarche (j'aimerais énormément pouvoir me constituer un costume) et vous souhaite une pleine réussite dans vos futures reconstitutions devant public.
I love how funny that they are formed and when made contact with the enemy, they just run and chasing each other. but you know what, This is really good reenactment
This is amazing for conceptualizing ancient battles. It makes sense now why they had deep ranks of 6-8. With only 3-4 here the formations easily break on first contact. Also shows that the fighting would be much looser than it is traditional portrayed as
Keep in mind we can really only speculate at how these confrontations played out. Alot of critics I think forget about the logistics side of things and even human condition when they talk about ancient militaries and warrior cultures. As I understand it hoplites were esstiently citizen soldiers, more like a militia than a traditional professional military like we're used to. You don't really hear historians talk much about practices like "drills" and "mock battles" until the Roman legions so only the most experienced warriors would likely know how best to handle/manage formations and battlefield tactics. I think I read somewhere hoplites even had to provide their own gear in some cases, which makes since, and really would make it difficult to enforce certian standards. So in any case let the history nerds have their fun and not be so critical over abstracts - even the pros don't know it all ~ end rant (this looks so freaking fun! And am I the only one that's impressed by the picture quality? That's not a phone camera is it?!)
I really like this representation. I think it displays well many aspects of what warfare of the time, and you have a glimpse of what could be achieved with more practice and experience. I personally wanted to see an example of what happens when shield walls clash, and this showed it beautifully.
You need to do it every day for like 6 months before it will start working. I did never train for phalanx, but in the army, I was trained to march in perfect square box formation from Napoleonic times. It takes a lot of time before recruiters can move properly in real tight column and column is much easier than line.
@@tatumergo3931 Yes, 'recruits', that was typo. And Yes initial training is 2-3 weeks, but! If you need to teach them to turn column or line smoothly, to rear and redouble line (not sure how it is called in English), it will take bit longer. But agree my 6 month is bit of exaggeration. In army I started feeling more or less comfortable with everything going around in around 4 months.
Loved the charge from the group from the side. You do have to rewatch again and again to see what went on. They made a spectacular charge with their shields perfectly locked with one another. Sent the left group flank flying.
This is a great example of why the Spartans were so feared in ancient Greece. They were trainrd from young to never break formation as if it was like breathing air. They were the masters of this type of warfare. Nice video though.
@@slimebeingslimey8266 they were worn out by that time though, years of war during the Peloponnesian war against Athens they were depleted and Thebes was up and coming and had a great general in Epaminondas. Prime Sparta was a different animal altogether.
I love the fact that the right phalanx broke formation when they charged but the Left maintained formation and quickly pushed through the center of the broken right phalanx.
People don’t get it. Instinct wise we don’t do formations, and Tactics. We form strategy like wolves. We flank, and Set Ambushes. Naturally they broke apart. But if they spent even just a WEEK in hours of training. Some 200 hours at least…. They very well could be less likely to break formation until Tired, Uneven ground, or a handful fall over or simply The clashing is enough to make them forget the discipline. Edit: I meant Wise towards Formations. Forming a Hoplite Phalanx wasnt easy. I’d argue Vikings that are givin praise, would look similar to this but of course way more organized. To which. Formations are part of that. Or should be. A Sarissa Phalanx would’ve been even more difficult. So much so… theyd be utterly useless in this scenario. Everyone would be confused as to how they even do it. Their just having fun, not anything really going on.
Because no one comments here at least for the past 4 yrs or so. I’ll go ahead with a second comment. Back in those days men were driven to battle and brought up to fight to aspire in becoming warriors, not coming back home was good to some, nowadays you have to go home you have family, house, work, sports, fun, entertaining. Why would you try to get injured not killed lol, here !? Times change but I know they could’ve been more aggro but towards the end gave me that battle feeling, was cool 😎
It would actually make a quite accurate reenactment of classica Greek hoplite battlelines, contrary to the most commentators' criticism on their lack of discipline. We should always remember that until the very end of the classica period, the Greek hoplites remained untrained, undisciplined, and unruly citizen militias; ancient authors such as Plato, Xenophon, and Ainias continually complain about the lack of obedient discipline and professionalism of the Greek troops, especially the heavy infantry, i.e. the hoplites. The reenactors here actually did well by showing such amateurism. That's where we get all of the complaints of Plato and Xenophon - both with extensive military experience - and the former general Thucydides' accounts of many extremely chaotic battles during the Peloponnesian War. Also a note: these guys did each drift their battlelines to the right instinctively, a good proof for the Thucydidean theory of "Hoplite Drift."
I like the video is about a bunch of ancient warfare hobbyists having a whale of their time, and the comment section is like "aS A MilLitAry EXpeRt, BecAUsE I pLaY TotAL WaR, tHEir foRMAtioN iS nOT prOfeSSiOnaL"
Another rule of the formation defense strategy is: sacrifice the numbers not the formation. There will always be casualties. But structure equals safety and survival.
@@tatumergo3931 The opitomy of battle formation fighting were the Romans with their interlocking shields and the Gladius (thrusting swords). The Romans were masters at letting other armies spend time and energy trying to penetrate their formations. Then when the time was right. Just mop up the melee.
very good, not breaking their formation is vital, the other boys fell into total chaos, imagine that that would have happened to Crassus in the third servile war. Total madness
Aren't those spears short? Are they using the same measurements as ancient ones? If thats the case then the spears should be propotionally short because of the massive increase in height from Ancient days.
@@tatumergo3931 indeed, I’ve corrected it. So frustrating when you see people wielding spears like fools and thinking they aren’t as effective with shields
The overhand spear grip is cringe. But that is the problem with using artistic interpretations on jars. What is the point of being so tightly packed together so you are combat ineffective? Is it not possible that they had a little space so each soldier can thrust, block and maneuver a little?
Harsh criticism, as you can see they are reinact they are not proffesional trained soldiers and mostly do it for entertainment i presume. What everyone in the comment section wants to see requies training and discipline and i think those guys have jobs and dont have the time to put it in training.
A but old so it can explain why this kind of fromation but now some associations of passionates had experiment battle formation of Hoplites and it's quite diferent as they fight tight like Romans or like in rugby and it's much more efficient
First rule of phalanx is never break the phalanx!
Is there historical evidence that phalanx had formation? Its all fiction bro.
Hahaha! What phalanx? 😂
@@cgavin1 they are hoplites 🤣
@@KeyhaneBishomar phalanx is a formation :)
@@marjanciric3358 no phalanx is a unit !
Just goes to show you how crucial discipline and uniformity is in phalanx warfare
Facts
I'd say in every military operation. But, you known, before professionalization came in to the military, confronts should look just like this
@@eduardopipinel ye the moment i step out of a phalanx is the moment im dead so id doubt it
Its greatest strength was its greatest weakness. Exploited by the Roman maniple.
@@eduardopipinel This wasn’t before professionalism. The post-Alexandrian period had some of the most professional armies ever in the history of mankind. The Early Middle Ages killed professionalism in the west for a while, but then it re-emerges with the rise of the man-at-arms.
To the wanna be hero who broke phalanx and jumped into the enemy ......
"Your father should have taught you how a phalanx works." - King Leonidas
Many people in the comment section complain about how easily the phalanx formations broke apart, but to me this looks like an example of how hard it is not to break battle formation in real life. Humans are not NPCs from Total War games after all.
Most humans are also not trained solders either.
Not everyone is trained to be a soldier and don’t bring Humans to compare to a Video Game
Most humans aren't actively suicidal. The attention-seeking jumping around slamming into each other is therefore most probably highly unrealistic, and it's what caused the majority of the loss of order shown in the video.
I would attribute the phalanx breaking apart more due to the lack of training on the part of the participants and a absence of any real "fear" to keep them huddled together in numbers for strength. When you're playing at war there are probably different motivators at work when c compared to actual war scenarios.
And their lives werent on the line if it was they would be compacting like sardines in a can to increase survivability.
they have no formation at all
You cannot have or keep a formation with such a few men. The strength of the phalanx comes from several consecutive rows of men, which prevent the line being pushed through.
@@sunpallinkarvat Yes you most certainly can, they just aren't doing it.
@@sunpallinkarvat no, they could maintain a formation but maybe they are just amateurs or bad or don't care, anyway the video is cool would only be better with a formation hehe
@@BBD1 they literally american football charged each other
Is there a better demonstration out there where formations are kept? That seems really difficult once contact is made.
It seems to me much more like the gallic wars: charging without order breaking formation instantly. Vercingetorix would be proud
Haha. The barbarian way of war
@@greengrassisgood most of the greek cities militaries were as unprofessional as these guys. still, they'd be a little more careful being at risk of actually dying
They had at least one war and battle ecperience , dont forget the many mercenaries who was professionals also fighting for their cities or that after the peloponnesian war many men the only art they knew was the art of war in the greek penninsula specially in the poleis world. Greece as a land lost its warfare after the Romans. The pike and also most ugly was the peloponnesian war time following by the diadochi wars but there the main battlefields and powers was outside of Greece , still with much men power came from Greece .
@alessandro benvenuti, that is not how gallic warriors fought. There is no way they would have terrorised the whole mediterranean world, and be bought as mercenaries in each and every army around that sea.
I know, but mine was a joke because it’s common knowledge that the celts were trashed by Caesar and the roman emperors that sucseeded him. The gauls were scary and brave fows, but not disciplined. My joke was an exaggeration of this feature.
That was horrible
faxx
what was this, my eyes bleed and my ancestors are rolling in their graves.
@TheCrazyKid1381 actually baltic tribes are ancient ppl who keeped their language and culture for tousand years. byt this what they showd is realy bad fight in phalanx. if ppl cant take critique to improve themselfs, than its childish
TheCrazyKid1381 ‘scythians huns and other steppe people’ from that generalising comment of nomadic cultures, i wouldnt consider your opinion over the OPs even if Jupiter himself told me to.
@TheCrazyKid1381 so what great your ppl done thses days? living in their father shadow , while ather have evolution
@@ipk801 you re just cringe af
@@emanuelmaldoileacont8253 well what will be next imperial stormtrooper can really shot in bulleye from 1km?
The disaster...spartans must turn over in their graves...
LMAO!
@Fuck inferior ugly usa So they don't like themselves? Make sense fucking uneducated moron with lazy parents
@themailman43 Dude, first of all i am Greek and i have PERFECT knowledge of my country's history.
There is no such thing as Spartans hating Greeks because Spartans were Greeks. Its like me saying Texans (from Texas) hate Americans. Choose your words wisely next time.
Only in the time of civil war between city states, Spartans didn't like other city states.
We are very touchy on this matter because during the last decades, several nations around us, are trying to steel our countries history although they were never in the region back in the ancient world.
@themailman43 Spartans hated Atheneans. That is not the same as hating all Greeks especially since "Greece" wasn't a thing back then. You are a history ignorant.
@@captainjim1010 Learn Greek history and learn English.
ehum... have you tried... you know... locking shields?
@the Achaean
was mostly for the guys coming from the right side of the video.
Left side did well enough.
@@szarekhthesilent2047 how would they lock shields?
@@simonphoenix3789 overlap the right side with the left side of your neighbour's shield?
Or holding your Spears at your waist instead of over your head like a fool? You're a hoplite right ? Why are you holding it like a peltist....
@@VirtualVictoryTM The main problem with being cool and holding it at your waist (arced upwards) is, that you can hit the enemy's shield, legprotection or helmet. That''s it.
If you hold it high (either grip) pointing downwards you can reach over the shield.
This allows to hit the guy behind the shield.
I think this is a very realistic vision of how inexperienced hoplites might fight. Relative loose formation and looing it altogether. Upon crashing one guy even ran ahead one his own, only to be pushed back.
B Welther great demonstration on how to get destroyed in ancient combat 😂
@@cytoroup1632 everything was tight allright, accept their anus.
I don't think there was something a "inexperienced hoplites".
If your armies use a formation that relies so heavily on discipline, I don't think that you'd get away with breaking formation.
If you charged off and survived, you'd probably be executed for endangering yourself and your allies.
True. But a lot of hoplites would have been inexperienced as they were not professionals. I think the order would have been maintained with deeper ranks and putting experienced troops on the flanks. Essentially boxing in the front line soldiers to stay with the group. Would also explain why armies were so quick to route
na, i dont think people just run straight to thier death, not at the beginning of a battle
lol wtf was that?!
a bunch of idiots who dont understand a formation lol
@@mattyicicles1608 hello
Bunch of imbeciles. Embarrassing... This is why people who are into history look like a joke...
@@VirtualVictoryTM That's in the city of Hyère in southern France. I saw myself one of their reenactment in the archaeological site of Olbia. That was not that impressive, but they are just amator reenactment not done by professional.
More brawlers, than soldiers. They make a wonderous mess of things.
🤣Underrated comment
Maybe because they're not actual soldiers from ancient times
Women: Omg, what should we do with our day out today?!?!
Men:
"mantened esa puta línea" 😆
El comentario que buscaba😂
The right flank charge at 1:47 was amazing! I don't know what those guys on the left flank were doing breaking from the formation and moved back. I guess they didn't want to die too early in the battle or tried to defend the formation from flanking attackers because it looked like the left side army formation was a little smaller then the right side.
"To lead untrained people to war is to throw them away."
This shows you why that the army with most discipline who stays in formation usually wins the battle
What it looks like when a bunch of untrained dads attempt what takes years of regular training to perfect
Seriously now just try to imagine a fight like this for real...no wonder most fights in history were won by pure bravery I mean the first to break is the one to lose...you can see it even here ...amazing!!! That’s why the biggest winners in history had ether a great leader of a great goal
1:23 "¡Mantened esa puta linea!"
Denle a ese capitán una puta cerveza!
Someone who could speak greece, can u translate this comment please
Ese hombre resumió el video con su frase, aunque se agradece la recreación...
@@baronhartono3058 Translation: Hold the fucking line
@@sauldecortes3204 thank you
Evil Leonidas leading Spartans be like: "Give them everything, but take from them nothing".
If you watch the ride side of the formation on the team that advanced from the right, that was a very good phalanx charge. They charged with shields locked and in a line. The rest broke formation and would've caused the battle to be lost.
Phalanx do not charge
do they understand how a phalanx works? :'D
Who needs to study a phalanx formation when you can throw a hand grenade?
@@MastaFista Do you live under a rock?
It's very movie accurate: break formation and engage into singular combat as soon as you can.
Its kinda educational to see how an real ancient combat would end quickly and relatively bloodless because if your life was on the line and you felt like your were loosing by just a little bit how fast the line would disintegrate and rout
Well put
Do you think it was really bloodless? This made me think people in frontline would just get shredded in the first moments of the battle! Not a historian tho
@@tomking5290 for sure the front was a meat grinder. there were battles fought with such bravery and hate that they had to be chronicled. Masses of people dying upright from the mounds of corpses piled so high, people fighting on top of the fallen and the like.
But for the most part, the countless skirmishes fought throughout time must have been fought with a kind of self preservation that made retreat a priority
@@amantryingtodogood9061 Ooo nice turn of phrase. Homer would approve.
Can you give me some examples of such battles for my morbid curiosity?
@Eduardo Kiryu Most of the killing happened when a unit would rout because they would then get mowed down by cavalry and skirmishers, assuming this wasn't just a phalanx vs phalanx battle.
Que pensez de cette vidéo... Je me permets quelques commentaires, sans prétendre que ces derniers soient véridiques, mais issus d'un passionné d'histoire qui donne simplement son point de vue : J'ai cru comprendre que l'affrontement opposait deux "associations", dont la Française Hoplitai en Galatia à droite. Certaines remarques ne vous concerneront surement pas alors.
En ce qui concerne le matériel de reconstitution : vraiment top, des superbes linothorax, grèves (cnémides), casques corinthiens (bien qu'il soit trop présent), des aspis de 'bonne' taille. On retrouve une certaine disparité dans les costumes (peut-être pas assez), véridique au temps de l'antiquité. Le hoplite devait payer lui même son équipement, attention toutefois à la multiplicité des cimiers. Bien qu'il est difficile de retrouver des sources tangibles, il est admis que le cimier en crin de chevale symbolise d'une certaine manière le rang social mais aussi militaire du porteur. Alors je suis d'accord, ça claque, c'est imposant, c'est beau... mais doucement (je sais bien que cet élément ne dépend que du bon vouloir des personnes).
Concernant la formation : je reste dubitatif et déçu je dois l'admettre... la formation phalange reste globalement respectée à l'arrêt. Toutefois, dès qu'il est question de mouvement, c'est la débandade. Personne ne va à la même allure, certains romps les rangs au premier contact. La formation phalange en contact, à durée quelques secondes tout au plus et ne reflète en rien la prétendue réalité historique. Toutefois, est-ce un reflet, reflex de la réalité. Historiquement seul les Spartiates étaient formés à la guerre, à disposer d'une véritable armée de métier. Mettons nous dans la peau d'un jeune artisan Athéniens devant se mobiliser pour défendre sa 'patrie' face aux perses. Aurais-je le temps nécessaire pour me réapproprier mes formations militaires (éphébie)? telle est la question. Toutefois, en l'état, si le but rechercher est bien de démontrer le fonctionnement d'une phalange, arrêtez tout et entraînez vous longuement. La discipline est la clé. Pour l'instant, une mêlée de rugby est plus représentative que cette démonstration je le crains.
Autres remarques : essayez d'avoir un front linéaire en premier rang avec des hoplites ayant une taille similaire afin d'éviter le phénomène des frères Dalton. Mettre également les soldats les mieux protégés (casques, lino, éventuellement brassards mais surtout Cnémides) au premier rang. Stop aux archers grecques avec des casques corinthiens. Les peltastes sont généralement devant ou sur les côtés à courir partout pour harceler les troupes ennemies. Bon je suppose que vous n'aviez pas bcp d'espace pour faire une énorme bataille donc bon... :)
Voilà, ne prenez surtout pas mal ces remarques. Je reste envieux de votre démarche (j'aimerais énormément pouvoir me constituer un costume) et vous souhaite une pleine réussite dans vos futures reconstitutions devant public.
Archers on the side: “well we were on camera at least”
I love how funny that they are formed and when made contact with the enemy, they just run and chasing each other. but you know what, This is really good reenactment
This is amazing for conceptualizing ancient battles. It makes sense now why they had deep ranks of 6-8. With only 3-4 here the formations easily break on first contact. Also shows that the fighting would be much looser than it is traditional portrayed as
One man completely destroyed the whole event. The dude who broke phalanx... Yes, Leonidas is ashamed of him.
OMG, that first move was hilarious! These chaps need a drill-hoplite!
Spanish: Mantened esa puta linea, ostia . JAJAJAJAJJA
Why form a phalanx if u gonna break it
Somewhere cries one Leonidis.
Yeah from Pontic mountains near the Black Sea 😂😂😂😂
Keep in mind we can really only speculate at how these confrontations played out. Alot of critics I think forget about the logistics side of things and even human condition when they talk about ancient militaries and warrior cultures. As I understand it hoplites were esstiently citizen soldiers, more like a militia than a traditional professional military like we're used to. You don't really hear historians talk much about practices like "drills" and "mock battles" until the Roman legions so only the most experienced warriors would likely know how best to handle/manage formations and battlefield tactics. I think I read somewhere hoplites even had to provide their own gear in some cases, which makes since, and really would make it difficult to enforce certian standards. So in any case let the history nerds have their fun and not be so critical over abstracts - even the pros don't know it all ~ end rant (this looks so freaking fun! And am I the only one that's impressed by the picture quality? That's not a phone camera is it?!)
u forgot the Spartans they where pros
I really like this representation. I think it displays well many aspects of what warfare of the time, and you have a glimpse of what could be achieved with more practice and experience. I personally wanted to see an example of what happens when shield walls clash, and this showed it beautifully.
Interesting how the line immediately turns counter-clockwise. This is something mentioned in sources as something the happened as combat dragged on.
That was interesting. The phalanx on the right broke up before they even pushed shields
You need to do it every day for like 6 months before it will start working. I did never train for phalanx, but in the army, I was trained to march in perfect square box formation from Napoleonic times. It takes a lot of time before recruiters can move properly in real tight column and column is much easier than line.
@@tatumergo3931 Yes, 'recruits', that was typo. And Yes initial training is 2-3 weeks, but! If you need to teach them to turn column or line smoothly, to rear and redouble line (not sure how it is called in English), it will take bit longer. But agree my 6 month is bit of exaggeration. In army I started feeling more or less comfortable with everything going around in around 4 months.
This is how we should still be fighting our wars. A great incentive NOT to go to war.
Second rule of the Phalanx is NEVER BREAK THE PHALANX.
Loved the charge from the group from the side. You do have to rewatch again and again to see what went on. They made a spectacular charge with their shields perfectly locked with one another. Sent the left group flank flying.
This is a great example of why the Spartans were so feared in ancient Greece. They were trainrd from young to never break formation as if it was like breathing air. They were the masters of this type of warfare. Nice video though.
But got easily defeated by thebes🤣
@@slimebeingslimey8266 they were worn out by that time though, years of war during the Peloponnesian war against Athens they were depleted and Thebes was up and coming and had a great general in Epaminondas. Prime Sparta was a different animal altogether.
Very cool to see a Boeotian shield wielded by a Hoplitai from the left Phalanx!
Alexander would've weeped, if dead could weep.
I love the fact that the right phalanx broke formation when they charged but the Left maintained formation and quickly pushed through the center of the broken right phalanx.
People don’t get it. Instinct wise we don’t do formations, and Tactics. We form strategy like wolves.
We flank, and Set Ambushes.
Naturally they broke apart. But if they spent even just a WEEK in hours of training. Some 200 hours at least…. They very well could be less likely to break formation until Tired, Uneven ground, or a handful fall over or simply The clashing is enough to make them forget the discipline.
Edit: I meant Wise towards Formations.
Forming a Hoplite Phalanx wasnt easy. I’d argue Vikings that are givin praise, would look similar to this but of course way more organized. To which. Formations are part of that. Or should be.
A Sarissa Phalanx would’ve been even more difficult. So much so… theyd be utterly useless in this scenario. Everyone would be confused as to how they even do it.
Their just having fun, not anything really going on.
I think also because none was afraid or cared for their lives.
And here you see the Greek PHALANGITES instantaneously break formation
At 1:43 you can see where the phalanx was broken. That guy got an arrow to the Achilles and lost the will to fight.
What a shameful display!
the fighters closest to the camera: awkwardly sizing each other up
fighters on the other side: smesh time
1:47 such a shameful display from the right squad when their left soldiers already shaking & give in LOL
This must have been fun as hell haha
Bruh, I could not play this game wearing Spartan armour, my Greek warrior would ascend on me really quick on the battle field.
the guy who just rushed out thought he was king Leonidas lmao.
Because no one comments here at least for the past 4 yrs or so. I’ll go ahead with a second comment. Back in those days men were driven to battle and brought up to fight to aspire in becoming warriors, not coming back home was good to some, nowadays you have to go home you have family, house, work, sports, fun, entertaining. Why would you try to get injured not killed lol, here !? Times change but I know they could’ve been more aggro but towards the end gave me that battle feeling, was cool 😎
How your elite hoplytes charge in RTW when hard difficulty is choosen
Nice attempt from the weekend warrior brigade
It would actually make a quite accurate reenactment of classica Greek hoplite battlelines, contrary to the most commentators' criticism on their lack of discipline. We should always remember that until the very end of the classica period, the Greek hoplites remained untrained, undisciplined, and unruly citizen militias; ancient authors such as Plato, Xenophon, and Ainias continually complain about the lack of obedient discipline and professionalism of the Greek troops, especially the heavy infantry, i.e. the hoplites. The reenactors here actually did well by showing such amateurism. That's where we get all of the complaints of Plato and Xenophon - both with extensive military experience - and the former general Thucydides' accounts of many extremely chaotic battles during the Peloponnesian War. Also a note: these guys did each drift their battlelines to the right instinctively, a good proof for the Thucydidean theory of "Hoplite Drift."
Likely closer to the truth than we would likely want to believe
I don't wanna know what Leonidas would have said to that. Where is the Phalanx in this mess?
"mantened esa puta línea!!!".... jajajajaja....ese debía de ser un mercenario celtíbero!!!
I like the video is about a bunch of ancient warfare hobbyists having a whale of their time, and the comment section is like "aS A MilLitAry EXpeRt, BecAUsE I pLaY TotAL WaR, tHEir foRMAtioN iS nOT prOfeSSiOnaL"
If Dan Carlin has taught me anything, the farmers & bakers had to go back to work the next day lol nice lil healthy dose of PTSD
I’m real life hoplite warfare might have not always been perfect phalanx’s so this is like super realistic sorta.
Another rule of the formation defense strategy is: sacrifice the numbers not the formation. There will always be casualties. But structure equals safety and survival.
@@tatumergo3931 The opitomy of battle formation fighting were the Romans with their interlocking shields and the Gladius (thrusting swords). The Romans were masters at letting other armies spend time and energy trying to penetrate their formations. Then when the time was right. Just mop up the melee.
Me looking at the thumbnail: This looks like pandamonium.
Watching the video: Yes it is.
Pandemonium....nice choice of a beautiful Greek word to describe this mess LOL.
very good, not breaking their formation is vital, the other boys fell into total chaos, imagine that that would have happened to Crassus in the third servile war. Total madness
Looks like a lot of fun!
What kind of age of empires is this?
Pero mira esos escudo papaaa... que guapos
The bloke with the red and yellow shield on the right side didn't want the smoke.
I honestly don't get why they went with round shields. Oval shields seem much more practical.
They crumbled like stale cookies.
Aren't those spears short? Are they using the same measurements as ancient ones?
If thats the case then the spears should be propotionally short because of the massive increase in height from Ancient days.
All this is missing is small children running around screaming, "I got you, I got you!"
I wanna do this so bad!
Spears need to be used in the overhand position like ancient depictions show not underhand.
@@tatumergo3931 indeed, I’ve corrected it. So frustrating when you see people wielding spears like fools and thinking they aren’t as effective with shields
These hoplites have no discipline.
why am I being recommended all these hoplite videos lately? what does this have to do with quarantine? Keep people at phalanx distance?
Being a peltast looks so fun. At least not in the real life
I suppose its like asking a bunch of civvies to march around a parade square
At one point, it stops being a battle to turn into a free fight all against all
Just a bunch of guys playing on the grass without any clue..."AU"? Really?
I hoped to see reenactment but I found LARP instead
Thar spartan guy just went leeroy jenkins
underarm spear grips in a phalanx always rub me the wrong way.
When in phalanx the pressure was such that you could be dead and stil standing. What was that?
If greeks fought like that, now I understand why Rome conquered them so easily...
@@tatumergo3931 I was just joking about. Really appreciate your history class, but I rather go on my own investigation.
The overhand spear grip is cringe. But that is the problem with using artistic interpretations on jars. What is the point of being so tightly packed together so you are combat ineffective? Is it not possible that they had a little space so each soldier can thrust, block and maneuver a little?
like lil children play war in the garden great^^
Harsh criticism, as you can see they are reinact they are not proffesional trained soldiers and mostly do it for entertainment i presume. What everyone in the comment section wants to see requies training and discipline and i think those guys have jobs and dont have the time to put it in training.
I would love to see these guys fight against Alexander’s army. Haha
Why are they holding their spears like that _--. You don't hold them overhanded like you're about to throw them --_
Very cool, but the guys on the right really need to drill in formation more.
I don’t think they are fighting like they only can live on earth once
Batle of Chaos. But very beautiful oplites.
what a mess ! were they drunk ?
Я не эксперт, но разве фаланга нужна не для того, чтоб драться в строю?
That escalated wuickly
These guys have seen way to many movies...there was northing accurate here
A but old so it can explain why this kind of fromation but now some associations of passionates had experiment battle formation of Hoplites and it's quite diferent as they fight tight like Romans or like in rugby and it's much more efficient