How Many Speeds? (Brompton Gearing)
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- čas přidán 1. 09. 2020
- Out of a dozen gearing options to choose from, which one is good for Brompton Touring?
Brompton 44T Chainring and Guard assy (amzn.to/3oxrLAG)
Brompton 50T Chainring and Guard assy (amzn.to/3kwbb1x)
Brompton 54T Chainring and Guard assy (amzn.to/3jElMGB)
Music Copyrights: All is not lost, Audiomachine.
#Brompton #2bikes4adventure
![Explaining Brompton Gearing - [Including P & T Line]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7uVwMx9OZ94/mqdefault.jpg)
![Explaining Brompton Gearing - [Including P & T Line]](/img/tr.png)
NOTICE: The standard chainring for 1 and 2 Speeds Brompton is 54T while 3 Speeds and 6 Speeds standard is 50T
I was about to comment but thanks for the clarifications! I have a 2 speeds standard and am happy with it. Anyway, thanks for the great explanations, will keep this as my reference.
The new A-Line uses the 3-speed Sturmey Archer hub and its stock chainring is a 44 tooth, effectively giving the fabled 12% reduction right out of the box. It is also the least expensive Brompton selling here in the US for $1,150 USD at the time of this writing.
This video is so intelligently designed with a great use of basic graphics to explain very difficult concepts and it goes to the core of how & why the Brompton is such a well designed engineering and sculpted masterpiece of a transportation machine.
Out of all of the videos on Bromptons I have ever seen, it is definitely one of my "Top 10" videos!
Wanted to say the same thing. Great video!
I bought a second hand 6 speed Brompton in mint condition that had sat in a cupboard under the seller's stairs for two years since he purchased it new. It came with a lot of the extras (including a heavy dynamo set up I don't really need and may yet sell) and a 50t chain ring. I live in a very hilly area of mid Wales and knew my arthritic knees would need something smaller even before I rode the bike. My first thought was to swap the 50t for 44t, but after riding the bike a little and doing a lot more research, I decided to go for major surgery and installed a double with 38t/28t chain rings with shorter cranks to match my short legs. It took the bike down to mtb climbing ratios and I am thrilled with the result, happily whizzing up and down my local hills. My need for speed has long since evaporated, so I don't mind the lower top speed and I am planning to start my covid-delayed touring adventures next year before my 72nd birthday.
Coming a few months after a hip replacement, our welsh lock down was much more restrictive than the rest of the UK, meaning I was unable to ride for most of the summer and am too unfit to set off this year. I am however, now enjoying the process of regaining my fitness in my local area and the fun of being able to take the Brompton anywhere I choose to ride in the boot of my car. It is truly a liberating machine that makes me smile every time I ride it. One day, I may be strong enough to revert to a single 44t chain ring and a slightly lighter bike, but until then, I am just happy to be able to ride it wherever I choose.
How to you switch between 38T to 28T? Does the chain stay in place or fall sometimes?
For most of the time, I stay on the 38t, only going down to the small ring when I hit a particularly steep hill. I stop and change gear manually where necessary. More skilled riders can change down by pushing the chain with their foot. In a hilly area, I stay on the 28t and just go a little slower until the terrain becomes less steep. I don't pedal down steep hills anyway, so no spinning out. I plan to make a wire hook to move the chain back up to the bigger ring while still moving, but find it quite easy to do by hand and I am usually glad to take a few moments break after a spell of hard climbs, anyway. I keep a bit of rag or an old wipe handy to protect my fingers from the oil.
I have had no problem with my chain coming off, even though it is really a bit too long. When I installed the new rings, I was afraid of removing too many links, so erred on the side of caution. I intended to shorten it some more after test riding, but it worked so well, I have not bothered to do it. It has not come off even once since the installation last year. I have read that it may cause this problem when folding the bike if the chain is on the small ring, so I make sure to always have it on the large one before folding. This is easy because I don't think I have ever finished a ride on the 28t, anyway.
My chain set is actually a very cheap steel touring triple with the 48t ring replaced by a lightweight aluminium chain guard. The bike is the 2013 model with the newer bottom bracket and I didn't need to change it to get a very acceptable chain line. It all works really well, the only downside being a little extra weight.@@2Bikes4Adventure
It's possible to add a front derailleur with adapters. Just use a brazed on FD.
You are an inspiration. I hope to be as fit as you as I age. Best of luck on you journeys
Well done, Richard! Keep on biking! I had one hip and one knee replacement done a few years ago; I currently ride a 50T chainring on my 6 speed Brompton.
Best explanation of the Brompton gears I‘ve ever seen. Thank you for it
The level of info and editing quality of this video is absolutely incredible…
Top shelf video. Concise & very helpful. Thank you!
What an amazingly clear video!
Excellent video! Thanks. I love the visual comparison of different gear options compared to an average touring bike.
Thanks for the chart. Really useful!
The graphics in your videos are always top notch and readily help explain your points. Thanks for the clarity.
Excellent video and well explained on the gear options of Brompton!
Fantastic video and graphics :)
Always remember to get a 44T chainring when you get a 6-speed. 50T is way too heavy for normal people to pedal. If you want to use your 6-speed to cycle some hilly places like I do, I'd recommend people to change the sprockets to 13T-17T or even 18T. Trust me. That will make your life so much easier.
I can't agree. I own a 6-speed Brompton which currently has a 48T chainring. I also live in a hilly area. I am mostly pedalling in 2+ gear occasionally going down to 2-. Only when there's a very steep hill 20-25%, I need to go down to 1-. Now I am looking to change my chainring to 54T and see how this works out for me.
A comprehensive overview on Brompton gearing. Excellent video, thank you!
Great channel. Thanks for all the info. The production quality is great too.
Excellent video as always.
Excellent video. After 3,500 miles using the 50T, I changed it to a 44T on my 6-speed and love it even more. Having covered 1,000 miles with 44T, I would now be unlikely to go back to the 50T. I would recommend the 44T /6-speed set-up to anyone who is undecided, and wants good future proofing. Having said that, the 50T is a good starting point. Changing to 44T later is simple and in the UK costs around £55 for the components, comprising chainring, chainring guard, new chain, and new sprockets (if worn). Changing these components can easily be done at home for anyone familiar with removing the rear wheel (for puncture repair for example) as the upgrade is only a few more simple steps on from that. If the rear sprockets are not worn, the wheel does not need to be removed and there is a small cost saving. If getting the bike shop to install, labour costs will need to be added.
Cannot agree more.
Hullo Adrian, I am investigating replacing my Ammaco Pakka (20" wheels, six speed) with a Brompton and becoming very interested as I learn. Please, am I right in thinking that replacing the 50T (pedal?) chain ring with a 44T ring lowered the overall gearing? My main reason for asking is concern about maintaining a good speed on level and downhill roads while sharing the road with cars and vans travelling at 40 - 50mph.
@@tim2015 - Hi @ Tim2015 - your concerns are much the same as I had before I took the plunge for the 44T. In fact it was a comment from another poster that persuaded me to give it a try.
Yes, the 44T lowers the overall gearing, meaning easier hill climbing but a lower top speed technically. In practice, I find the top speed of the 44T to be entirely adequate. On the flat in still conditions, if you are fit and strong, you will be able to keep up 15-20 mph. On downhill sections pedalling to 25 mph is possible but beyond that you may get a bit of bounce! To be honest I have found no issues in traffic. Unfortunately, cyclists are never rewarded by having downhill ride sections all the time!
Most of the time I will be alternating between gear 5 and gear 6 on the flat and cycling at between 15-20 mph (I am no athlete!). The advantage here is that you are then only needing to use the 2-changer which is the “derailleur” one, so you keep pedalling. When I had the 50T on, I was having to use the 3-speed changer as well a lot more on the flat (as alternating between gears 4 and 5). No where near as convenient as you have to use both shifters to achieve the change up or down.
Hopefully this helps your decision. In summary, I prefer having more hill-climb ability and less flat road gear complexity rather than having a not often used all-out top speed. 🙂
One final thing - if you are worried about top speed, you may also be concerned about drag from bulky bags on the front carrier block. A decent back-pack is a much lower-drag alternative, and will aid top speed.
Hear, hear! I did the exact same thing when I got my ML6 nine years ago. I wanted to change to the 44T right from the start but the sales boys at my local store weren't having any of that! LOL! One of them even told me I'd seem like a hamster on a wheel. So I got the standard 50T and went with it for about 3 months. But nope... it just didn't feel right. Still, I was glad I gave it a chance so I could have a point of comparison. In came the 44T and I couldn't be happier. My legs are very short and I'm not in the best of physical shapes. On top of that, I encounter a few hilly streets on my rides quite often. Making that change was one of my best decisions regarding my Brompton. The others are Ergon Gp1 grips and Brooks Cambium saddle
@@misstubbie1313 Great to hear from you, and your experience! I’ve retained standard grips, but I swapped out the factory saddle for a B17 Standard black leather and it has been brilliant right from the start. And yes, the 44T is perfect. Incidentally, I have Marathon Plus tyres, puncture-resistance peace of mind🙂
Absolutely amazing explanation on the Brompton gearing options! Thanks for the dedication you put into making it!
Thanks. You put a lot of work on your videos as well.
I've never before understood that much about bike gearing, and it was even explained in just 6 minutes! Amazing video, thank you.
A really excellent video -- so clear and well put together. Thank you!
The latest version of the video includes P/T Line gearing.
Explaining Brompton Gearing - [Including P & T Line]
czcams.com/video/7uVwMx9OZ94/video.html
I have had a 6 speed brompton for around 6 months now and this is the first time I understand the 44t chain ring option. Thank you!
Thanks - I already had the stock available gear ratios tabulated but your visual aids brought the information to life. I thought your thoughts on which option to choose for different scenarios was also very valuable - you can only really get this sort of advice from people who have walked the walk - well, ok, ridden....
Maybe one of the clearest gear explanations for bromptons. Thanks for taking the time
Absolutely fantastic and informative. I've owned a 6-gear Brompton for over 7 years, but never understood the lingo or technicalities of it. Now I do, and glad to have chosen the 6.
Very high quality content. Amazed and thankful.
An updated version of this video [that includes P & T Line] is available here:
czcams.com/video/7uVwMx9OZ94/video.html
Excellent video, very clear and coherent. As someone who is involved in video production, I also appreciate how much work you put into this!
Very informative video and well explained!
Thanks for the much needed information explaining about ‘chain ring’ instead of just passing comment on ‘speed’...I am soon ordering a 44 chain ring as I live in hilly area.
Excellent information. Many thanks.
I've been considering getting a Brompton for quite a while now, but was unsure which configuration to get. This video gave me some clarity on what I should consider moving forward. Kudos for this very informative video. Cheers!
There’s a Brompton with your name on it.
Your presentation skills are amazing!
Very informative video! Thumbs up!
Thanks. Very clear explanation
Great video! Thank you for sharing.
Amazingly informative. Thank you.
Thank you for all your videos. Clear, concise and very well presented. They have been and will continue to be of great use as I embark on folding bicycling as I'm about to push the button on a Brompton H6R.
Phil, enjoy your new H6R. Smiles are included at no extra cost.
Phil, did you get your H6R yet? I got mine in black lacquer!
So happy I watched this today. Just brought a 3 speed, and had the 44T fitted to it on purchase. Thought I'd done wrong not buying the 6 speed. As an old person (70) unfit and not going too far, it seems an ideal purchase for me now. Cheers for the excellent content. Richard.
@richardbarrett4104, Our 3speed Bromptons have accompanied us on most of our adventures, yours will certainly do the same.
Best explanation I've seen so far. Subscribed. I have a M3R currently and thinking about changing the chain ring to 44T after winter or when I need to replace my first set of chain and sprocket.
This is the best information I've found to date on the various gearing options, the only thing it misses is a full section on the larger chainring but the info presented has convinced me that a three speed is what I want. Thanks!
You may be interested in this video as well:
Upgrading your Brompton Gears
czcams.com/video/-Q9wd8Ewlec/video.html
PS We released an updated version (to include latest Brompton models):
Explaining Brompton Gearing - [Including P & T Line]
czcams.com/video/7uVwMx9OZ94/video.html
I've just turned 70 and love my Brompton. My wife and I bought ours 2 years ago - both 6 speed (44T chainwheel) We travelled over Col de Tourmalet (with luggage!), also rides in Slovenia, and some climbs in Dolomites in 2019. The Brompton is VERY versatile and comfortable (It is our 'go to' bike - my road bike has barely been used) Last week I did a 100km ride in nearby hills with sections over 18%. Its tough, and some of my 'road bike' friends had to walk. This video is the best I've seen explaining the Brompton gearing - great graphics and will look forward to other videos on touring. Many thanks for excellent work.
Hi Peter and welcome. We don’t think we’ll ever cycle the Col du Tourmalet, but we will do our best to bring inspiring videos for Brompton Touring enthusiasts.
Fantastic channel!
Now subscribed. Thank for the great information.
This is a great video. Very informative. I love my Brompton. I have the 6 speed.
Thanks! Very useful 🙏
this is greatly helpful.
Wow! What a great video that explains everything clearly and practically! I have the 6 speed reduced gearing eventhough I live in a place with no hills (at all literally). However, the place I bought it from asked how windy it is, and I indicated it could get quite windy. He said they have found that the reduced 6 speed is useful against headwinds. And he was right. If you're riding a Brompton and commuting, you will probably find the lower gears more useful than the higher gears. The object isn't to get there as fast as possible... it's to just get there... and in style, of course. ;)
Headwind is like going uphill but with no reward going downhill.
This is a good explanation of Brompton gearing. Thank you! I wanted to mention that it is possible to use chainrings with less than 44 teeth, down to 38. I use a 40 tooth chainring on my Brompton. I have a pedaling style that emphasizes “spinning” rather than pushing large gears. That works well when touring with the Brompton
You are right. 44T-50T-54T reflects the standard Brompton offering. After market chainrings (and sprockets) of various dimensions can also be installed (included dual chainrings configuration).
I have a 3 speed and strong legs . I would like to do some touring so will returning to a 6 speed when available, hoping for a H6R. Brillo good vlog on gearing so well explained thank you
This is the best explanation of the differences in Brompton gearing I've ever seen! I currently have a Brompton 3-speed with a 44T front sprocket , which I've ridden regularly since 2014 and can usually manage any hill I encounter. Now I'm intending to buy an electric Brompton in the not-too-distant future. Having seen this video, I shall opt for a 6-speed with a 50T sprocket. As I interpret the options [having used Gimp to combine both screenshots so I can see both the 44 and 50 sprockets side by side] I shall gain two lower gearings and one higher, which will suit me nicely.
I know the gearing may be less important with an electric, but there may [will] be times when riding without battery assistance.
A 6-speeds does future proof your purchase. The weight increase over a 3 speeds is less an issue considering the electric Brompton is already heavier anyway.
One easy upgrade (or should we say downgrade?) once you have your 6-speed is to (eventually) buy a 2-speed rear wheel (with sprockets). Replacing the rear wheel is not more difficult than changing a flat tire and it would enable you to have an other (and lighter) Brompton configuration to choose from when you cycle around town.
Great video. Subscribed.
amazing mate👍👍
This is even more interesting after a second viewing.. thank you.
This latest version ( czcams.com/video/7uVwMx9OZ94/video.html ) includes P & T Line gearing as well as expected climbing performance
Excelente explicación.
Thanks so much for putting this all in gear-inches! With that info I'm able to compare it to the bikes I already own, one with a Rohloff 14-speed and one with a Shimano 8-speed, so I can convert easily - "oh, that's a little higher than 3rd gear on my Rohloff bike and about the same as 1st on my Shimano bike... so I know I can ride up this hill but not that one..." etc. Most appreciated!
very useful info . for buying this bike!!! thanks
Thanks!
Very helpful
Great video! It would be nice to see a video like this including the new 4 speed derailleur on the new P Line and T Line.
We should indeed update it to include the new P and T Line 4speed configuration
This was VERY helpful to me! I bought the 6-speed, -12% for travel and I live in Utah. I needed something that could tackle hills. But I've been debating about upgrading the sprocket but I don't understand how that all worked. This video has helped me understand it-- thank you!
The 6-speed -12% (44T) is the best Brompton has to offer. To improve further its hill climbing capability, one would need to go “aftermarket”. User “milkywaychild” suggests a 39T chainring. It would not go fast, but it would certainly go up!
This is great information, I appreciate you helping me out. I saw someone posted your video on the Brompton Reddit channel, keep them coming, it's really helping the Brompton community!
Thanks Emily. With limited long distance traveling options these days, there is more time for videos. PS Been in Utah a few times (even biked in Moab). What an incredible landscape.
@@2Bikes4Adventure I'm glad you've made it out here! I was just in Moab a few weekends ago and doing some mountain biking. We do have a wonderful backyard for outdoors.
Hi, thanks for your video, you helped me to go for the 3 gears ;-)
Enjoy your new Brompton!
Fantastic video. I love my 3 speed S3L and I am currently playing with a 44 tooth chainring. So far im liking it as I do like to spin rather than grind. Also I use all 3 gears now as 3rd on the 54T was very tall. Great downhill or with a good tailwind but otherwise its pretty tough.
Hi i have the B75 which came 3 speed 44t chain ring and its just perfect, low enough for steep ish hills and high enough for flats, had a 6 speed and most gears above 1 and 2 was just too hard going for me, if you live in a hilly area and zoom around on your Brommy think about 3 speed 44t makes my brommy so much more enjoyable x
@@bromptinowner763 Glad to read you are having such a positive experience with your B75. Since fitting my 44T chainring I find im starting to spin out in 2nd more often but I will stick with it a little longer.
Great video! I've got a two-speed Brompton that I've used for daily city riding in Hamburg, Germany with occasional trips to other cities. Been debating going with a smaller chain ring or upgrading my gearing to 3 or 6 since I'd like to potentially do get rid of my other bikes (which I normally use for touring) for an upcoming move. Thanks for helping me think through the options in a useful way!
PS - I would have loved to see the 2-speed with the smallest chainring included in video or images :-)
The 2 Speeds Brompton with 44T would give you a 1st gear of about 46 gear-inches and a 2nd of about 61 gear-inches. On the video graphic, it would be similar to the first 2 (low) gears on a regular 3-speeds Brompton. For some flat/leisurely destinations (ex.: Eurovelo 6), it would most likely be sufficient.
This would be the most inexpensive “upgrade” you could make to your bicycle (about $50). You can always upgrade your gearing to 3 or 6 speeds later on and keep the 44T chainring.
@@2Bikes4Adventure Thanks so much for weighing in! I actually think that things might be slightly more complicated. I just counted my Brompton's stock chain ring teeth and there are 54. It seems that the 1-speed and 2-speed Bromptons actually come standard with 54t chainrings whereas the 3-speed and the and 6-speed chainrings come standard with 50t chainrings (blog.brilliantbikes.co.uk/2015/02/brompton-chain-sizing-guide.html). This doesn't change any of the numbers, but it does complicate the video slightly since your graphic seems to assume that single and 2-speed Bromptons come with 50t chainrings standard. This table has the same rough numbers as you and seems to confirm that: www.bikefolded.com/brompton-gear-inches/. Don't mean to chime in with corrections -- I actually just stumbled into this myself now that I looked into things after watching your lovely video. Does it seem like I am reading things right?
In any case, I've always found on my 2-speed that the standard higher gear is perhaps too high; I only use it when I'm REALLY late for something or am really focusing on not spinning out whereas the lower gear is perhaps just a bit too low when I'm riding with friends on their full-size bikes. Sounds like I need to try out 50t chaining for my day-to-day and the 44t for the idea of being somewhere hilly or a minimalist tour!
You are correct, the standard chainring for 1 Speed and 2 Speed is 54T. The gear-inches on the video assume a 50T for all 4 setups. Maybe I should “pin” a comment at the top to clarify the situation. Thanks.
@@2Bikes4Adventure Single speeds are fine for 20 year olds and the dutch. 2spd to 6 is easy , and not too painfully pricey ˜$300 vs the $50 to swap chainwheels.
I have a 27-speed touring bike carrying 35 kg, I even trudge up hills. There is no shame in that!
Que buen video!
Thank you for another fantastic and informative video. I especially like your simple and clear graphics. What program do you use for them?
Basically, just Apple Keynote.
Your channel is a CZcams hidden gem. I feel lucky to find it, thank you for the amazing and informative videos! Cheers from Poland!
I ride big and bulky Dutch or touring bikes, but I always think, that internal hub bikes are geared too high. Anything above 60 gear inches is used very rarely. How often do you use gears 4-6 of your six speed Brompton?
Thanks for the feedback. Btw, Poland has been on our “to do” list for a while.
If I had to guess the % usage of each gear on our 6speed-12%, I would say:
4th (56 gear-inches) - 45%
3th (46 gear-inches) - 25%
5th (72 gear-inches) - 15%
1st (29 gear-inches) - 10%
2nd (36 gear-inches) - 3%
6th (88 gear-inches) - 2%
We are not fast cyclists, so the 6th is not too often engaged. We usually avoid long steep climbs, but if we have to climb, we quickly end up on the granny gear (1st) thus not staying in 2nd very long.
Keeping all this in mind, I would probably be willing to trade the 6th for a lower 1st (ie swapping 44T chainring for a 39T for example).
@@2Bikes4Adventure We need to collectively contact Brompton - and other bike manufacturers - to include shortest possible gearing option. Noone in your comments section asks for longer gears, granny gears ftw! :)
On the other hand, you should definitely visit Poland - although it's not as spectacular, as some other countries in Europe, there's lot of things to see, nature is beautiful, bike and tourists infrastucture is really good, especially in bigger cities. And foremost - it's mostly flat as a pancake, so you can survive with a single gear!
If you have any questions about biking in Poland, email me, I'd be happy to help.
I gave you a thumbs up because I'm totally lost in your explanation :)
Great visualization of the topic! I do ride 6 speed Brompton with the 39T chainring which is the minimum for the 130 bcd cranks. Almost any uphill is possible, but the speed on the flat roads is not enough, will try the 42t chainring next season.
A 39T could become quite useful for some especially hilly destinations. A traveller going on a yearlong trip could conceivably bring such chainring in his luggage and install it when the topography requires it (ex Pamir Highway). If the other is a 44T, I assume the chain length would not need be modified (ie the gear tensioner would take the slack?). Another option could be to “hack” a dual chainring installation.
And now we are at 4 desserts! Great video!
Deal! But the delivery is not included, you will have to come up here :-)
@@2Bikes4Adventure You’re right. Between a 39T and a 44T chainring, no real need to modify the chain. Thanks for this video very helpful ! I have a 39T chainring on my Brompton and I’m able to climb every steep hills in my area. I still have the original 44T chainring. When I will be a better cyclist I will put again the 44T chainring.
Thank you for this, I have now more confidence in getting a 3 speeds Brompton with a 44T
Enjoy your new Brompton. Smiles are included no matter the gearing options.
2Bikes4Adventure change to 34t will be better
@@2Bikes4Adventure This is true!
Thank you so much for your clear and succinct explanation. I now understand gearing! Now if only I could buy a brompton. They are out of stock everywhere.
Long distance adventures are also in short supply.
Caroline Wilson , Hi Caroline. I just bought a 6 speeder from eBay. It is two years old but virtually unused. I paid a tiny premium over list price and am overjoyed with it. Brompton are taking no more 2020 “appointments” and no opening their 2021 book yet so you’ll find it almost impossible to get a new one unless you see an almost new one on eBay (there are lots, but some hopefully sellers trying to cash in on the current high demand). Good luck, Neil
Neil McMillan Thanks Neil, I have my heart set on a white m6l. Then some luggage to finish it off and a tour of Scotland! Enjoy your brompton and I hope I will be overjoyed too once I get my own.
Caroline Wilson you’ll not be disappointed :)
I'm glad i have a 21 speed. New York have a lot of hills.
I have a 3 gear 50T and a 6 gear 54T. In the mildly hilly environment where I live, the latter is much more comfortable: you can put some pressure when going downhill which is more pleasant than having to have it run free.
Hullo Mark, I am investigating replacing my Ammaco Pakka (20" wheels, six speed) with a Brompton, and becoming very interested as I learn. Does your 6 gear 54T seem to be higher geared (in the highest gears) than your 3 gear 50T ? My main reason for asking is concern about maintaining a good speed on level and downhill roads while sharing the road with cars and vans travelling at 40 - 50mph.
@@tim2015 The 6 gear has more options up and down. I strongly prefer that bike.
Excellent Videos you make!
Just a quick question before I continue watching this one ... The saddle shown at 0.14, what kind of saddle is that, is it more comfortable, when would you recommend that?
I have yet to find one that fits me so i am verys interested and open to suggestions for "new" options.
Thank you for making such informative, well-structured and educational Videos. I wished more CZcamsrs would live up to those standards :)
Thanks for the compliments. Pam’s saddle is made by SpongyWonder, you can find some more details in our video: czcams.com/video/Kt5LyiivTZA/video.html
Good video sharing. Clearly explained. It helps one to decide which gear of Brompton to opt for when buying a new one. I have a question though, can one swap the front chainring to a smaller < 44T (obviously a third party chainring if there's one)? In theory, it should help with climbing for a 3 speed Brompton. Isn't it?
3rd party chainring smaller than 44T are indeed available (and easy to install). It would help climbing for any Brompton (not only the 3 speed)
For those that are wondering , you can have 2 "chainring" on a Brompton with a shlumpf drive or ATS.
This is the solution I have taken to gain more gearing on my 2 speed Brompton.
Great introductory video about the complex speed selection for the Bromptons.
There are some inaccuracies however:
The standard chainring (with 75 gear inch top speed) for 1 speed and 2 speed is 54t (not 50t)
The way to represent speeds as a spectrum is not really pertinent when we talk about gear hubs, because of the big jumps between speeds.
So to sum up my advice:
For a 3 speed - select the top gear as level-ground gear
For a 6 speed - select the second-highest gear as level-ground gear (i.e. the 5th gear)
So if you prefer 75 GI for level-ground gear then you need the 44t chainring for both the 6 speed and the 3 speed Brompton !
(The 3 speed with 50t will give you a 85 GI as the top gear, that might leave you without a proper level-ground gear)
@anonymusmester As you probably noticed, we pinned a correction comment concerning the 50T vs 54T inaccuracy at the top of the comment section more than 1 year ago.
As for the spectrum representation, our latest videos use a logarithmic scale instead which is more appropriate. We will eventually need to update this old (linear) one as well.
@@2Bikes4Adventure thanks. No I haven't noticed unfortunately. But my main point regarding the 3 speed stands.
I think it is best to have the top speed calibrated to fit the ground level speed, instead of trying to match as closely the optimal distribution presented for a normal touring bike.
Very nice explanation. Can you please make a video about the P Line and if it is enough to climb hills? Thank you!
Excellent idea, we will look into it shortly.
Love your graphics and explanations. I was going to ask you about your trans-Korea trip, as I noticed the sign in Korean. Then you mentioned it toward the end of this video. If you don't mind, what about that bike trip did you enjoy? I ask because I taught English and lived there for over 7-years and never biked that route. Thank you.
Hi Stephen. If I remember, you were there from 73-75 and again from 2012 to 2017, living near Daegu at one point.
The quality of the infrastructure (bike path surface, isolation from road traffic, signage, rest areas, stamp booths, award at completion…), relative low cost and small elevation gain make this entire long distance cycling network an ideal destination for “easy touring”. We recommend it strongly.
South Korea “exotic nature” (for Westerners) is a big incentive as well.
@@2Bikes4Adventure, thanks for the response. I am so tempted to ask how could you possibly remember those personal details? I usually can't recall what I ate for breakfast. :)
We have the same breakfast every morning, this leave more room for other memories :-)
I have the S6L with standard gearing....if I understand the change to 44 teeth makes it the -12% model? Thanks for the video, you two are inspiring.
Correct, the 44T chainring is also known as -12%.
You could probably also use a Q-ring up front.
'Gearing for Dummies' this is! Super and Thanks!!!
Believe it or not I have several bikes including an 8 speed peco pocchi folding bike, and my single speed folding carbon bike is my favorite! I'm going to try my longest ride yet touring around Sapporo with a hennessy hammock hyperlite next month, we shall see how the single speed holds up! I mean, I can always walk or get on public transport/hail an uber right.
We believe you, there is no such thing as having too many bicycles (there is always room for one more :-)
Enjoy your trip around Sapporo (not too hilly for a single speed?).
PS The closest we cycled was in Muroran.
Thank you. I realize I never commented when you first put this out! Helped me to understand and led me to get a 6 speed with the 12% reduced gearing. My only wish is that I had one higher gear! I'm looking a dual chainrings and I'm curious if you have ever considered an "upgrade" to a 54/33 tooth gear ring or similar? H&H seem to have a good product with a few decent reviews. 🤔
I basically never use 1 around home except on one hill and I could struggle up that in 2 pretty easily... but I run out of pedal more easily than i would like on flats and even the most slight declines with the 44 tooth chainring even in 6th 😏
We haven’t had a chance to try the dual chainring configuration, but it’s probably the least expensive/easiest solution to extend the Brompton’s gear range. Other options include adding a 3rd sprocket (for a total of 9 speeds) and/or installing a Schlumpf Drive.
@@2Bikes4Adventure I looked into the schlump drive but I think that method was one you had to modify/widen the triangle? I do recall it was much more expencive! Thank you for mentioning it though
The Schlumpf Drive goes in the bottom bracket, not to be confused with a Rohloff hub which indeed requires a rear triangle modification (both are expensive)
@@2Bikes4Adventure yes! Yes yes yes! I hadn't had a chance to go back and Google it again yet. I heard about the schlumpf drive from you guys in another one of your videos and I am EXTREMELY interested in a future investment in that. My cheap and easy compromise was dual chainring. I haven't really had the time between work and contractor issues fixing some stuff on my house to commit to a deeper dive. The schlump drive is the only reason I haven't committed to the Dual Chainring yet. I have decided against a Rholoff Hub at this point though 😆
I was confusing this with the Shimano Alfine 8 speed in my head I think (I've done so much research over the winter but then tabled it around 2 months ago) There are more than just these two internal hub options I was researching and so many of them need to widen the rear triangle! The Schlumpf drive is a wondrous piece of engineering though 😍
This video has been immensely helpful for me and I hope, I finally understood what to look for now :)
If not, please feel free to correct me/help me out - I highly appreciate any help I could get in this regard ;-)
Cause right now I am searching for a second hand Brompton in order to convert it with a front wheel motor.
With the motor and my usual rather flat surroundings the lower gear range shouldn't be a problem.
However, I rather would love to continue riding as fast as I can with the Brompton even when the electrical motor support stops (for EU legal reasons) at 25 km/h or when I occasionally roll down a bridge etc.
And therefore I will probably need a 6 speed Brompton (maybe even considering a 54t chain ring).
Or is a 3 speed Brompton with a 54t chain ring sufficient enough? A 3 speed Brompton with a 54t chain ring should give around 90 gear inches, I suppose.
Would it be necessary to modify (extend) the chain length when installing a 54t chain ring instead of the usual 50t?
When it comes to 2nd hand Bromptons, we often have to make do with whatever models are available at the time (we bought our 2001 3 Speed T3s 2nd hand).
A 3 speed/54T with its 92 gear-inches would be capable of going at 30km/h (17mph) at 70rpm, so not too bad, but you would likely need the electric motor to climb any hills you find on your way (1st gear would be 52 gear-inches). A 6 speed would certainly be more versatile, but if a 3 speed is available at a good price, it could work out.
Awesome video, crystal clear explanation. Thumb up and thanks for your effort. BTW, may I asked Brompton electric bike is worth for urban commuting with some slopes climbing? I am @ New Zealand but might occasionally travel to Thailand, Malaysia KL.
Unfortunately, we do not have experience with the Brompton eBike. But from what I have seen on YT (ex.: Brilliantbikes channel), it would do great in urban settings, with or without hills.
The main problem travelling overseas with an electric Brompton however (or with any other electric bicycle for that matter) is the airline restriction associated with Lithium batteries.
The rules vary between airlines, but the maximum is usually 2 x 160Wh batteries (in cabin luggage ONLY) per passenger. So, the Brompton ebike, with its 300Wh battery would likely cause some problems.
I looked at getting the Brompton e-Bike but the battery is too big to take onto a plane so useless for international travel, so I cancelled my pre-order. I stuck with my Nano brompton that lets me use Bosch 36v batteries for getting on a plane and larger capacity 36v ones for domestic/local travel.
2Bikes4Adventure Thanks for advice. 😊
TighBan Yeah, that’s a flexible choices. Thanks 🙏🏻
Would like to have your opinion about the Nano. You are satisfied with it?
Could one put the 54 tooth gear on a 2 speed Electric model to get it to go faster of straights?
Pam & Gilbert, hello. So this is Pali bike touring in Japan. Yesterday I went to the Brompton Junction in Tokyo. They expect models in the first week of Oct (whereas Los Angeles expects them in Nov). A 6 spd superlight will cost Y352,000. $3300. Crazy. I'll go back to L.A. next week and wait 2 mo for the Bromptons. Then it's Mexico! Maybe I'll do Gianni's (of Brompton Traveler) Las vegas to Utah ride.
Hi. Japan is not known to be a “cheap” place (except for 100Y/Daiso stores). Further more, if by “superlight”, you mean the titanium option, this would explains the premium price. Personally, I won’t go for it on a 6 speeds touring configuration. It’s $1000+ for 1 lbs saving, poor ROI. Have a good flight back and hopefully nothing like Japan Route 45 between Nevada and Utah.
Lightweight foldies make about as much sense as an obese corp de ballet .
You can do it , but why?
@@whazzat8015 , i took a gravel bike to Japan. B4 leaving Japan I had to go find a box. Not every bike shop will give you a box. Then take the box back to the hostel. Get my bags and bicycle and ride to the station. Disassemble the bike (handle bar, front disc brake, seat, rear rack, front wheel). Lug all that crap to the train. Etc, etc. With a Brompton you just fold it up and put it in an Ikea bag.
@@pali_aha2781 For a foldie not to flex like a rubberband, it adds 10-12 pounds to their weightover a DF. Add to that your packs and luggage. Titanium isn't going to affect that calculus much. I have a range of the beggars from a Mobikey to a BikeSatrday. If it's gonna fold and ride well , it ain't gonna be light, and weight reduction adds expense and problems. What you are describing is packable. Can you do it? yeah. The vietcong carried 100kg of rice from Hanoi to HCMCity on bikes ,too. Titanium would not have helped them with their goal.
@@whazzat8015 , whatever. it suits me.
Two questions: first, could you use an asymmetric chain ring (eg., Q-ring) and if so would there be any problem folding the bike? Second, I installed the SA SRC5 5-speed hub into a Dahon Mu Uno and experienced near constant problems when riding up steep hills, like shift jumps of two to three gears. Have you had better experience with the Sturmey hubs?
Funny, just realized I already posted these questions months ago (*sorry*). This video keeps coming up in my suggested feed.
Hi KWH. Replacing a regular chainring with a (BCD130) Q-Ring should be relatively easy to do, but I would pay special attention to the chain length. The recommended length varies from 96 links (for 44T/1 sprocket) to 102 links (for 54T/2 sprockets). So, depending on the Q-Ring dimension and number of sprockets, the chain length may need to be fine tuned to ensure the gear tensioner works within its design limits.
We have SRAM (formerly Sachs) and SturmeyArcher equipped Bromptons. The only time we experienced “skipping” problems, it was solved by adjusting the gear indicator chain. No other problem to report.
Can u get electric motors set ups for a 6 gear plane brompton. Which i got before the electic can in.
Many 3rd party vendors sell electric conversion kit for regular Brompton (Ex.: Swytch, Nano,...). We haven’t had the chance to test anyone of them however.
I am not sure if the 3 gear brompton is also available in -18% gearing. Is this option possible? Can the 6 gear also come in -18% gearing or is -12% the lowest available? Thanks for the help in advance !
While -12% is the minimum reduction for the 6 speeds, it is indeed possible to have -18% on a 3 speeds. This is done by using the smallest (44T) chainring AND increasing the sprocket from the standard 13T to a 14T.
We didn't include this information in the video graphic to keep it simple, but I'm pleased that you asked.
NOTES
- 6 speeds sprockets are 13T and 16T (so introducing a 14T would not help the range)
- It is also possible to have a -7% 3 speeds using 50T-14T setup
Excellent Video, very well explained. I’m not entirely clear though why a 3 speed would be chosen over a 6 (if you owned both) for a trip as I thought their weight was similar so no benefit there. Is it just that a 3 is ‘simpler’ to ride on a trip or less to go wrong?
Our first Bromptons were 3-speed 2nd-hand (1/4 of the price of a new one). At the time, we were travelling with our Birdys (9 speeds) and were pleased with them. We were not convinced the Bromptons would be practical for touring (gearing and comfort wise), but the price was right and we thought they would be sufficient for weekend intermodal trips (and there is no such thing as having too many folding bikes, right?).
After bringing them on a “test trial” trip in Cuba, we grew found of the compact fold they provide and started thinking about an upgrade to brand new 6-speeds with gear reduction (which we eventually acquired (yes, even more bikes)).
Now before each trip, when we decide which bikes to bring, we often select the 3-speeds over the 6-speeds. They are a little bit lighter and mechanically simpler, but also, I must confess, we have become attached to them like old slippers.
I ordered after market rear cogs for my 6 speed and they just came in. I have a 44T chainring with the standard 13T/16T cogs. The new cogs are 12T/17T
to hopefully help me even more on hills and the 12T will hopefully gain back a little speed lost with the smaller chainring. Can you calculate the gear
inches this setup will produce? What's your thoughts on this? Do you think I should achieve my goals at both ends of the scale?
Very interesting. Did you encounter any problem related to the installation? Frame interference? Chain length? Gear Tensioner range?
The new 12T/17T sprockets will indeed extend your gear range significantly, from 302% to 348%.
In gear-inches, the 13T/16T provides
29.1 - 35.9 - 45.7 - 56.2 - 71.5 - 88.0
While the 12T/17T provides
27.4 - 38.9 - 43.0 - 60.9 - 67.3 - 95.4
In meters of development:
2.33 - 2.86 - 3.64 - 4.48 - 5.71 - 7.03
Vs
2.19 - 3.10 - 3.43 - 4.86 - 5.37 - 7.61
The drawback of this new setup is the uneven increment between each gear. While the old setup varies from 23% and 27% between each gear, the new setup fluctuates from 10% to 40%. Expect a very significant jump (40%) when you use the +/- gear selector.
@@2Bikes4Adventure Thanks for calculating that out for me. It does look like a fair difference. Actually I did say I just received them; to the point that they've yet to be installed.
I heard others not having any issues using a 17T for the larger cog, but an 18T apparently causes frame rubbing and the gear shifter might not work. But 17T should be fine.
I just might skip the 12T and stay with the standard 13T so it's not too big of a range. We'll see soon. I'll keep you informed.
Experimenting first with 13T/17T is a good idea. Looking forward to your feedback.
I have strong legs, but my knees can't handle quick movements. Therefore, my max speed on a reduced chainring would be maybe 20 km/h. I should have no difficulty climbing though, even if it's really hilly. So no, the 44T is not the "obvious winner" for me. I'm considering the 54T. Although maybe with a larger '-' sprocket so I don't compromise on climbing ability.
I do have a knockoff version of brompton trifold, but it has 9-speed on its back. with 50T chainring, is this good enough for all terrain?
Brompton (and clones) can handle crushed stones and dirt paths but their narrow wheels and high pressure tyres will have difficulties on Category 2 Gravel Roads and above.
Thanks for clarifying this. Do you know of a good source for showing long distance bike routes that never go on roads shared by cars?
We are working on a video on this subject (planning routes). It should be ready shortly.
@@2Bikes4Adventure Thank you.
Here it is: czcams.com/video/gUIWFdUnWwk/video.html
I'm fast approaching 70 and weigh around 95 kg. (Too much for my 5'8" frame and short legs!) I'm strongly considering getting a Brompton and this info has inclined me to go for the 44T chainring as I live in a hilly area. I prefer an upright riding position so should I go for the H handlebar or the M?
H of course
44T is the way to go. Some aftermarket companies even offer 39T, maybe something to consider.
We are about the same height and our four Bromptons are all M type. Ideally, the best would be to try both(M and H) at a local store, but Brompton being out-of-stock these days, this could be difficult. If you feel confortable with a regular hybrid bicycle, the M type will be fine. If you prefer a "Dutch" bike with an upright riding position, may want to go for H.
go for H as it got longer stem than M, you can easily change the handlebar to M or S if it is too high
If I'm not mistaking, M and H handlebars are the same, only the stem are different
@@2Bikes4Adventure sorry i was meaning H handlebar of older brompton which have more straight like U letter, it much better fitting for people who want upright position
Could you test the Peyman CVT transmission system ?
A little bit heavier than a derailleur, this system is an automatic gearbox for cycles, so doesn't require any gear shift cable, avoid chain loss and could in my opinion even be used to apply lubricant to the chain ;-)
As a result could you check if buying the cheapest Brompton with no rear gear in order to complete it with this system (when available !) could be a good choice ?
With only 115mm to “play with” on the back wheel (as oppose to 135mm on regular bikes), it could be a challenge to install. Further more, we would have to figure out how to modify the existing gear tensioner (if we want to be able to fold the bike). Power efficiency would likely be in the 85% range, so lower than a SA hub. Would be an interesting project however.
@@2Bikes4Adventure Thanks for your comment. Maybe more luck on another folding bike for a first try ?
Would indeed be much easier to integrate on a conventional mid-fold design with a 135mm frame spacing.
Hi, wat is your feel on the 2 speed. Terrain is mostly flat with some gradient slopes. Should I change to external 3 speed ?
Is the standard chainring a 50 or 54 T ?
Thanks
The main advantage of the 2 speed is the weight saving, particularly useful if commuting and having to hand-carry the Brompton folded.
If you live in a relatively flat area, a 2 speed will do. The default chainring is 54T, but nothing prevents you to install a 50T or even a 44T, depending on your need (going fast or uphill). In fact, a relatively inexpensive upgrade would be to install a dual chainring (54-33T). This would provide 4 speed with an overall wider range than a 3 speed internal hub.
@@2Bikes4Adventure
Wow.. thanks for the tip. Much appreciate sir🙏
can 44t be used for two speed bike, if so how this will affect the bike. As the two speed bike is much lighter, so just wondering. thanks for the great video.
A 44T would work on a 2speed. The overall speed range would be lower by almost 20% from the standard 54T chainring.
It would have a slightly better acceleration but with a reduced maximum top speed.
One can assume a 44T chainring is slightly lighter than a 54T, and with the smaller chain length, you would likely save a few grams as well.
@@2Bikes4Adventure great thanks a lot
@@2Bikes4Adventure on the video it says 2 speed is 50T, not 54T, which is it ?
The default chainring for a 2Speed is indeed 54T
片尾畫面是七堵的基隆河濱自行車道耶~ Welcome to Keelung, Taiwan ^^
You are correct, it was along the Keelung River, cycling from the Keelung port to Taipei.
🙏🏻❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️