Battery Bank Options + Wiring Solar Batteries from 6v to 12v vs 24v
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 11. 09. 2024
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Today, I will be discussing the three main battery bank options you have when it comes to solar batteries: flooded lead acid, absorbed glass mat (AGM), and lithium ion. I will also be sharing how to wire these 6v and 12v batteries in series and parallel to make a 12v or 24v solar system.
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Hope you guys enjoyed the video đ Be sure to share this info with anyone you know who is interested in solar power. It really helps us out. Thanks for watching and I'll see you in the comments!
not aiming to step on your toes but 9:03 12 volt set up your outputs need to be off set for a balanced drain and charge so that one battery is not taking all the drain or charge first. Path of least resistance always stands with batteries. The way it is set up in the video one battery is always playing catch up and the one that is the first out is the first to fail. Good effort on the breakdown and explanation. Have a good day
Duet Justus what about these 12v batteries that have 75a. .....they are like $30. Would these work for a small system
Something for you to consider for your next comparison is lead carbon batteries. The negative plates are treated with carbon to reduce degradation . They have similar performance to LiFePo4 , 3000 - 5000 cycles at 70% DOD , they are designed for Partial state of charge operation (PSOC) are a lot less expensive and are safe. Yes they are heavier. The other point I would like to raise is ,With the way technology is advancing, Is it worth going for something that will last 20 years, when it could be out of date in 10 years.
Not certain about the points made but ,if anyone else wants to uncover homemade solar energy try Magonsi Solar System Expert (just google it ) ? Ive heard some great things about it and my co-worker got amazing results with it.
In 2-3 years the solid state batteries will make all of these obsolete.
Iâve been running most of our home off grid for around 4+ year now and my lead acid batteries are doing just great. Yes I agree you have to maintain them regularly but if done correctly they will last years. Just waiting for these batteries to give up before considering changing over to lithium batteries,that being said it all depends on the price.đ
Lithium catches fire and can blow up
The best video for connecting batteries together I have ever seen. I clearly understood how to connect my three 12 volt lead acid batteries to maintain a 12 volt system to run my 12 volt to ac converter and to connect my 12 volt 100 watt solar panels to charge these batteries. I got the batteries for free from my son-in-laws business and had the wires built 9" long to connect them all together in parallel from a website on amazon and everything works great. I have 300 ah at 3600 wh and divide that in half or 50% of usage of the batteries gives my 1600 wh of usable energy. I was just given another 12 volt battery to connect to it so I am glad I order 4 set of negative and positive cables. I'll then have 400ah at 4800wh divide by half and I have a 2200 wh of usable energy. Its running great.
Thank you. Confirmed my purchase. Also learned I have less usable energy than I thought, but the longevity of my first purchase of 6 Volt lead acid did last a satisfactory 8 years.
One of the clearest, most complete videos I've seen on this subject.
A couple of things to consider with lithium ion batteries. If you *do* end up over charging or discharging them they'll probably be toast. And if they catch on fire, have fun putting the fire out! Lead acid batteries might be old tech, but they are far more robust. They can handle more abuse and are probably the better choice for someone beginning with solar power.
I really do like my lead acids. Itâs definitely a trade off and if I were to install again, I would definitely need to weigh all the options. Thanks for taking the time to share this info đđŒ
Cheers for replying. There's a couple of other interesting battery technologies out there too. Nickel-Iron (Edison) batteries & Salt Water Cells. And of course some people run industrial size NiCd cells too.
the FIRE problem is practically non existent with LiFePo4 batteries, people must make a study on the differences in Lithium batteries, the mostly in small batteries used chemical is LiOn (18650) and YES they are a bit dangerous, the LARGE prismatic cells in LiFePo4 chemistry are in fact very hard to ignite, so check out the BIG difference between these.....
Agree, LiFePo4 batteries are far more stable and safer. But at the expense of reduced capacity. But practically all those involved in making DIY power walls and the like are predominately using Li-ion chemistry cells recovered from old laptop batteries etc. It's triple jeopardy really; using unstable cells, second hand with different lifespans left in them, some people not really knowing what they are doing. Did you see that video on the VW combi going up in smoke when a pack of Li-ion cells was left charging?
Lithium ion batteries are more safer, its very hard to ignite them due to the fact that the constituent cell is made up of small finger-like batteries that are also inside a metal exterior. On the other hand, lead acid batteries release hydrogen gas when charging and sulphate at the terminals over time.
Concerning flooded lead / acid batteries:
Don't get confused about the 50% discharge. The listed amp/hour rating of a battery, if the manufacturer is honest, is the amount of amps the battery will deliver consistently for *at least* 20 hours. This is the industry standard "bench mark" test. If a battery is rated at 200ah the 50% discharge limit does *not* mean you will only get 100 amps out of the battery. It means the battery is capable of putting out 200 amps for 20 hours - which is actually a huge amount of current only found in 8D group size batteries or bigger. Only when the battery reaches a voltage of 11 volts will this current capacity begin to (sharply) drop off.until it reaches 10.5 volts; considered to be "dead".
Another thing not mentioned is to make certain your system is using "deep cycle" or "deep discharge" batteries. An automobile battery is physically designed to deliver a large amount of amps in a very short period of time and rated as Cold Cranking Amps. The thinner, more numerous lead plates inside the automotive "cranking" battery can deliver the high current, but will quickly build up with permanent lead-sulfide scale that eats through the plates or shorts them out if discharged too deeply, too often. A Deep Discharge battery has fewer but thicker plates. This results in lower discharge amperage but gives a constant current over a greater period of time. Because the plates are physically thicker they are not as easily damaged by sulfation and can, by design, be discharged to lower levels more often than an automotive battery.
The best breakdown anywhere thanks a million
Thanks Vincent, You are very welcome! đ
One of the better videos on this subject , but you could have bumped it up a little with the + , - of charging of each and the issue's of charging in parallel / series .
Thanks
Great presentation of a challenging topic! However as they say, the devil is in the details. As a part time RV'r my needs and long term prospects are different than a full timer. For example, your cost per AH implies premium batteries which can handle some extra abuse. As a part timer, I'm very satisfied with 2nd Tier AGMs such as the Universal that can be had for as little as $1.75 per AH. Also AGM batteries (and Li-Ion) do not need venting, and for cold weather are best placed inside the camper. A security issue for many small rigs with outdoor battery storage. My batteries only cycle about 100 times a year, and I plan on keeping the camper only about 6 years. So Li-Ion will never really pay for itself as I'll beat my rig to death on bumpy Interstates before it gets retired. Also in 10 Years some new battery tech will come down the pike and my $5 per AH Li-Ion battery investment will become "Old news". Lastly is the issue of the inefficiency of the 24 - 12 conversion losses needed to power all the 12 V appliances, lighting, and chargers an RV would have. That can offset some of the efficiency gains of of the lower line loss of 24V systems. Thanks again for a great presentation and channel!
Such great info all the way around. Thank you for taking the time to add all of this đ
Great diagrams much appreciated. Have been chewing on an upgrade for our trailer for longer dry camp times with litheom ion batteries. We where not sure on the solar for the moment since our preferred camp sites are heavily wooded and light limited. But the 80% useage helps camp stay and also we can run generators for some recharge as needed. This video is helpful as we work toward this goal. Thank you.
His depth of discharge info is wrong, the AH ratings take that into account already. For an RV, unless you are getting really into it lead acid is the easy choice as it pairs up well to be charged from the tow vehicle.
Do you get much wind??
Thanks as an electronics person i still learnt something new today about lithium batteries.
Thanks for the video, I am learning a great deal from your Solar series.....much appreciated. Keep up the great CZcams content. Your channel is among my top 3 favorites!
Wow Robert! Thank you đ We are so happy the videos bring that much value to you. We definitely work hard to produce them and we appreciate the nice feedback đđŒ
God bless you for explaining all of this so calmly and slowly and clearly. Because of you, I finally understand how to wire a battery bank. Thanks again.
That was the most understandable battery compare/config Iâve seen! Yay. So I now know Iâll get the lithium as I may eventually use them for solar in a house. Thanks!
Depends on how long you'll actually use them. Old timers like me may not love 5-10 longer. Or, somebody may trade off their rig in 3 yrs for whatever reason. Be sure to figure in longevity in your thought processing... hahaha
I work for a major oil company and do project NPV calculations all the time and we would never use a 20 year life cycle analysis. The odds on you owning that camper 20 years from now is pretty slim. In addition, the odds on no new innovation in the next 20 years is even less than you owning the camper. I can get 5 years from my FLA battery before I recondition them and get anther 200 cycles. A good FLA is really the right choice for me and thatâs why we have options and we need to do what makes sense for our own situation. If you took the difference in the cost and put it in the Russel 2000 our any other good indexed investment you could buy Battle Born.
I think Battle Born is a great business and very committed to the recreational travel trailer industry, Iâm just not buying their value proposition. With that being said a great video, and a very impressive battery installation.
Geoff
O
I found this super helpful. I am converting a school bus into an off grid tiny home. For me, the Lead Acid batteries just make more sense. Yes, you have to maintain them, yes they don't last as long as what they claim lithium ion batteries last, but I don't plan on keeping the school bus for 20+ years so I wouldn't get the full value of the lithium. I honestly only plan on living in the school bus for 5 or 6 years. Also, The cost in this video is slightly outdated or not well researched for lead acid battery cost. You can find 215 Ah lead acid batteries (6v) from Sams Club for $90/each. Duracell brand which from my research, these particular batteries are rebranded Deka batteries. So I can get 8 Lead Acid batteries for the price of a single Lithium ion battery. Sure, I can only use 50% of the capacity, but its MILES cheaper. With proper maintenance, those batteries should last me the entire time I live in the school bus.
Thank you *very much* for the comprehensive yet straightforward explanation of the advantages and disadvantages between the 3 main battery types, costs, and performance capabilities! You conveyed the information virtually as straight and simple as Iâve seen- and Iâve watched MANY videos on this topic only left feeling more lost, dazed and confused most of the time. But I obtained a much finer and more accurate understanding of the energy storage solution I will likely use (3rd one) and precisely how to configure/combine them safely and properly- especially for higher Amp-hours, minimal maintenance and years of sustained performance and Energy output over the years which I absolutely need.
I am currently actively planning out my home solar power system now, scoping out the best components I can find (a real toss up sometimes) and literally canât wait to become more energy independent all-around!!
The only other thing I would have really appreciated was if you also included salt-water batteries in your comparisons and explanation...
Bravo and well done! Thanks again for taking the time. Subscribed! đđđ
Well done, sir. A ton of research went into that, I'm sure. Thanks!
+Steve K Thanks Steve! Yes there was. Thanks for noticing đ
Ml
Wow, I just watched the first of your "lessons" here on CZcams" and I am impressed! As a new subscriber, I will be watching quite a few of them in the immediate future. Thank you so much for your time, knowledge, and the personal industry it took to produce them!
Great Video!
Super basically: When you take the covers off of your car battery, you will find 6 holes filled with fluid. Each of those are individual cells producing around 2.2 volts. They are internally wired in series making around 13.2 volts. (but called 12 Volts).
If you use 6V golf cart batteries, they won't do you much good unless you want to start a tractor or own an super old Volkswagen bug. They only have 3 cells per battery, so you will have to add 3 more cells. (another 6V battery). By running a cable from positive of one battery to the negative of the other, you wired them in series and you will have a large12V battery. When you read your battery it will tell you how many amp/hours it has in it. You were able to double your voltage, but you can not double the Amp/hrs, they will remain the same.
A parellel circuit requires 2 cables (obviously) Positive from one battery to Positive on the other battery, and on the other cable Negative to Negative. If you wire two 12 Volt batteries this way you do not double the voltage,(which is good) but you get twice as many usable amp/ hours. This is very common on RVs.
Keep in mind, two six volt batteries wired in parallel will have allot of amp/ hours, but still only 6 volts, which will not work on your RV or car.
old school - tell me when you had to last top up your car battery ? they don't do it now ... not since the 90's
Also, I think an honorable mention in this video would be the drawback of the type of maintenance. You mentioned having to refill the water in the flooded lead acid battery, but failed to mention the consistency of having to bring the batteries to a full charge to avoid degradation. As I understand it, lead acid batteries need to be brought back to full charge after every use, so say you have a lead acid setup that you are using every night, before being able to discharge your batteries again they need to be charged to %100 capacity, whereas a lithium battery only has to be brought back to %100 every so often. (I've gotten mixed information on the subject of how often lead acid needs to be recharged, but the fact that I've heard this alot about lead acid tells me that there's some truth to it.)
+Brion Lund Great info! There is a lot more that I could have put in this video but I also have to accommodate for attention spans lol đđŒ I will do many more videos in the future đ
@@DuetJustusFam (Mike), I just saw this video and need to ad to what Brion mentioned. BTW, what I'm about to say would not have taken much longer in your video. Since this video series is in reference to solar, you also know solar charge times used to size systems average around 4.5-5.5 hours per day. You stated that the Lead Acid & AGM only have 50 % usable energy. However, that really is false. Since a charger can bulk charge only to about 85% for these battery types and then must go into absorption to charge the other 15%. That will almost NEVER happen on solar charging alone. So, in reality, one can only get about 35% DOD form lead acid & AGM in a solar only configuration and should plan that when sizing system. Whereas with lithium, you can charge at 1C till full (0.5C for maximum life !)
I really like the consistent use of simple matrix for comparison in your video. Easy to absorb and remember. Great work
i love this video
the sort of content that i download on my computer to watch again
thank's for the effort ,
Besides the four categories considered here I also would add weight as a significant advantage of the lithium ion option over the lead batteries.
By your own numbers I can replace my lead acid batteries five times for the cost of lithium . I have had banks last twelve years with no problem so, the lead acid systems will last 60 yrs compared to lithium's 20 for the same cost. Until the numbers balance out, I'm sticking with lead acid.
agreed. One more reason is that the Lithium battery price will very likely go down in coming 5-10 years or a new tech will emerge as even better choice. I will wait.
Can't agree more. If the particular need imply mobility, like in RV, camper van, etc. the case for the lithium's pile some more advantages. Due to smaller foot print and weight. But on fixed installations, the lead acid batteries, I believe, will rule for several years. After all weight is no issue and foot print probably is no concern either. But cost on the other hand dictates the out come quite clearly! ;-)
And I think the Li batt is more dangeours...
@@molnarerik3428 It's not chemically the same as the ones in the airplanes and other cases where violent fires occur .
id be worried using solar with lithium. lith likes to go blowy uppy
you forgot the fact that the Lithium batteries have a much lesser PEUKERT factor, when you put a big load on lets say a 200 AH rated (at c/20) lead acid baterie , the capacity drops like a rock, so in practice it wil behave like a 75 Ah batterie (100 ah sinds we only can use half of a lead batterie , minus the anoying peukert factor) so i think that in practice two 100 AH lithiums wil be simalar to the three you mansioned....also with a far lower voltage drop, and not to forget a 40 percent HIGHER charge efficiency, very handy during rainy days in the winter...otherwise a GREAT video explaining these batteries!
I really appreciate your beautifully clear explanation putting everything in perspective. I am feeling rather stupid as I must have missed the obvious point! In my mind, if Li @ $3,000 is 5X ledAcid @ $600, & Li last only 5X longer, the cost is equal. (maintenance & replacement work aside). I imagine in 5 years there may be a superior battery to any now?
I agree with all you've said with one slight caveat. Lead acid and agm can be purchased anywhere. For those in the prepper community, access to lithium batteries might be impossible should a shtf deal happen. Conversely, with all the dead on the side of the road vehicles around, access to 12 volt batteries won't be a problem at all. The other point to make is it's easy to add more capacity at a cheaper cost than Lithium. (8) 6 volt batteries in series/parallel would provide huge power and probably never get anywhere close to 50% discharge. Many RVers use the (4) 6 volt batteries simply because their power requirements don't exceed even 70% of charge.
Bob Bradley and the fact that adding 4 more 6 volt batteries will be adding another 300lbs if the batteries are 75lbs each. So (8) would be 600 lbs. weight is a big consideration when building a van conversion.
Thank you, finally, nice and to the point with illustrations. Again thank you very much
Not an electric person but I like how you taught it, nice job
Best informational video answered all my questions.
Well done! You definitely should have been a Grade 8 Science teacherđ Thank you!
Great presentation. A couple of questions. What determines which configuration you choose? What's the advantage/disadvantage of a series config vs parallel config? Why would I choose one over the other?
You should be an instructor. The way you explain things always hits home. Iâm having so many ah ha moments watching your videos. Just awesome!
Agreed
Great information, thank you for sharing your videos, you are also a great teacher, keep up the good work Sir.
Thanks Rene!
Great Educator! I can't wait to see more videos. He talks at a cadence that makes him easy to understand.
That was the simplest explanation of this. Thank you so much!!! Love you two!!!!
Best explanation on battery costs configurations
2 gripes with this video.
1. Cycles vary with depth of discharge. My AGMs give way better cycles than what yours listed. I went with agm because they tend to have higher AH/$ and had 7 year warranty.
2. I forgot.
Other then that. Pretty good.
Iâm not positive but Iâm sure the AGM technology has progressed since this video. That seem late like you got a great deal! đâïžđđŒ
We've currently bought ourselves a previously owned motorhome, which has 3 year old lead acid 6 volt golf cart batteries. We do want to add solar (haven't seen your video's on that yet) and I am very interested in the many 'Lithium' choices available now. I do see there are many with far more than 100 AH, so the choices are many, but one does have to take cost into consideration. I truly would like to not have to worry about 'maintenance', so the Lithium would be a good choice for us I believe. I believe there are Lithium batteries that have recently come onto the market with much less chance of overheating/safety, than the old versions, so those are the one's I am most interested in of course. We do have a residential fridge, so the daily longer use of the generator is one of the reasons as well, to go to a better setup! I'll try and find your 'solar' video when time allows, and any others pertaining to this issue. Thanks for taking the time to make this video, it was appreciated!
Best teacher ever
Strongly disagree. Lots of bad information in this video.
GREAT!! Well explained should be easy understood by everybody!! WELL DONE đđ»đđ»
Awesome informationđ I really appreciate the way you relay this information. I'm about to start my 1st job in the solar field. A bit nervous. So your channel is awesome dude, cause it helps...
Awesome! You will do great. So glad the videos help. Thanks for tuning in đđŒ
A very lucid and educating presentation.
I just re-did the math using modern pricing and the 3000 cycle mark for the lithium ion battery and end up with different results.
Trojan Lead Acid = $200/225Ah (112Ah usable) x 6v x 1000 cycles = $.30/kWhc
Battle Born Lithium Ion = $949/100Ah (80Ah usable) x 12v x 3000 cycles = $.32/kWhc
So from a raw power usage over time per cycle perspective, the Trojan Lead acid was actually cheaper. This assumes of course you're getting the package deal for $200/Trojan battery and $950/Battle Born batter, even over the long run. It also assumes the safer possibility of the lower maximum cycle limit of the lithium ion batter. If the goal is to use more power, but less frequently and aren't planning a ton of cycles, it becomes even more favorable for lead acid.
Trojan Lead Acid = $200/225Ah (112Ah usable) x 6v = $.30/Wh
Battle Born Lithium Ion = $949/100Ah (80Ah usable) x 12v = $.98/Wh
In my opinion, the Trojan lead acid technically offers greater value if you don't mind replacing batteries in 10 years, if you do intend to use the batteries heavily. In my scenario, I'm looking for larger bursts of power for shorter periods of time or small power usage for only a few hours every once and a while, so I think I will probably opt for lead acid for this reason. That being said, I'm grateful for the video as it was informative and helped me think about the problem better. There are also flooded lead acid batteries that are even cheaper than the Trojan also.
Thanks for taking the time to make this video, great comparaison, with time Lithium will be the answer when the price comes down, Please everyone else be kind and polite in your comments or opinion, Adding infos or corrections can be done nicely with support instead of playing the game I'm better then you,
Again Thank you.
Nice, understandable video.
I can readily find 2-3 year old used UPS 12 volt AGM batteries at 100-125 AH on craigslist for $65 -75 each.
I have some AGM batteries that are still working that I bought used. Manufactured 14 years ago, with occasional use in a remote TX cabin.
I'd like to change to Lithium... but too pricey.
Thank you for simplifying this for međđŒ
I have two questions. First, I don't remember what channel I got this from, but they were saying you can take a 24 volt solar panel array, feed it thru a MPPT controller to a 12 volt system. Can this safely be done. Secondly,, with lead acid batteries one cycle would be when the batteries reach a fifty percent charge? Thanks
the video may have missed a key consideration factor, i.e. operation temperature. Lithium ion batteries have problem in charging below freezing. I think that is very important to consider.
@A L - Keep it warm or buy a self-warming battery ...
I'm happy you didn't say you can deplete AGM's to 80% like a lot of vids I've seen. Don't do it people!!
Doug over at "The SV Seeker" channel said your channel is well worth checking out, and they are right.
Your video had awesome content and presented in an excellent, professional manner. Kudos!
Nov 25, 2017 Ignore the other post messed up format on it
In this system was my setup with NI-Cd batteries:
And to give ideas:
Just for info look into flooded Nickle Cadmium (Ni-Cd)
batteries: My first solar / multi power system (solar, wind, and water
wheel generation set-up) the system that I started the set up in 1980:
I went to a train repair yard and got the 2 volt flooded Ni-Cd batteries
for free with the wire's: They weighed about 75 lb each: When I got them
home I made 12 volt banks; then wired them into multi 12 volt banks
(For a power generation system of 6000 to 10,000 amp/hour) with enough
battery reserve to run my shop and trailer easily for 2 to 3 months
without any solar, wind, and water wheel generation input: I built this
system over about 10 year's (Up grading my 2 volt wet cell NI-Cd
batteries and solar panels and generator's "For wind and water over the
year's") from start of project is 1980 until my 5^th wheel was burnt
down in 2001: The wet cell Ni-Cd batteries of that time could be
discharged down to between 2% - 5% and was best to do so if not just
maintaining them (So they would not form "My NI-CD" a higher % memory
discharge - 'discharge to 50% if do so they will drop very fast past the
50% a point where the could not be used and need a full recharged' and
"Maintaining them between 97% to 100% to keep the life span very long
with a
very deep discharge befor a memory drop off" occasional
discharge down to 2% from time to time is good for them): Now with
today's technology you would need far fewer batteries than I needed at
the time I started my system (I have been buying equipment for a new off
the grid homestead system with multi generation capacities and
locations): But if you build this type of system research all type's of
batteries / battery system and battery voltage's and Amp's from 2 volt
to 24 volt and even higher voltage's and high Amp's in a single package
", ie: 96 volt" (Even look into starting with used car batteries and
upgrade as monie allows): Now I can not stress enough for you to do
"YOUR RESEARCH INTO ALL DIFFERENT SYSTEM'S" To find a system that will
work and/or start out best for you with upgrade's as monie, capacities,
need's, and ect. "again Homework, Homework,Homework, Homework, and even
more Homework.
General info for my new system:
Like power
for my water well solar with battery storage but when the batteries are
full just maintain the batteries then the extra generated power sent
to my main power house where all my power generated is stored; (Where all
of the battery storage system would be located) "Like from my water
well, night time security lights, shop power, green house power anything
that uses a little power but still is generating more than is needed,
and ect" They don't use every thing at once; each of the befor mention
system's have their own power system's but are able to send power to the
main power house and receive power from the main power house when
needed: Again discharge the system from time to time that is recommended
for your system.
Best video on this topic so far, very clear and informative.
Nice video! You missed two of the most important characteristics though! Size and weight! Li-on batteries are unbeatable in those!
Thanks for the clear explanation barely getting into solar to transition into off grid living soon thanks
You do understand that forklift/traction batteries are designed to go down to 20-30% state of charge DAILY and are warrantied to do so for 5-7 years, You CAN go below 50%, and with a home system you can plan to do so rarely and be fine. My Forklift battery is 24V 660 ah and would cost $2700 to replace, It is 12 years old and will need to be replaced in the next year. Comparable LiFePo4 would cost $4500 (today 2022) and it would also have to be kept warm, my lead acid battery banks have always lived outside. So some additional cost there, something you neglect to mention.
This is great information. Thank you for taking the time to share it. đđŒđâïž
Very well put forward with the difference of useable storage to cost.
Thank you so much for putting in the time and effort to put these videos together! A huge help and very easy to understand! Tank you!
Simplicity was ultimate
Glad it was helpful!
For the Lithium battery, your example in the photo is a Battle Born Lithium Iron Phosphate battery, and unlike your example, they can be discharged 100%, not 80%. This is because they're claiming the usable Ah which is 100. And, because you have the price right, which currently is about $950,00, the math will add up even more for the Lithium. There is one other hidden money saver you must consider. The weight of the battery is less than half. So for someone with a few in their RV will also save fuel moving all that lead around. Sure, it's really a very small amount, but in the life of your RV, that weight really does matter.
best explanation for battery bank i have yet, keep on, Thanks from puerto rico
Tysm for these đđ I have no idea about the electrical of any of this
Duet, if you wire say 4 of the 6v flooded batteries, in Series and Parallel, is your Solar Power/system... going to "BALANCE" Charge your batteries ? Seldom do I hear anyone speak about BALANCING your Batteries. Please let me know. I enjoy your Videos, you speak clearly and a educated on what your providing to the Public. Thanks
Nice informative video for to take decision of usage of battery in different usage
Thanks it's nice am learning a lot from your videos I have been following them all
I would have added a few more columns like weight / size and efficiency (that is, how much energy will the battery waste just to store energy). A lithium ion is damn near perfect, as it is almost 100% efficiency, that is, whatever your solar panels put into the battery, you get 97~98% back out, where a AGM, be lucky to 80%. So you're losing 20% right there! Good info, the only other problem is, running a FLA battery down to 50% is almost killing it. More likely you should never drain it past 40% Probably more like 30%, personally I would go below 35% to get max life cycles of the battery.
U r an amazing tutor..making things so easy to learn
As far as I know, lead acid batteries can average 200-400 cycles, AGM is more 800-1000 cycles... that's why many car owners, go for the AGM Batteries due to their longer life span... true?
Excellent video. Thank you. I appreciate the information. Stay well & keep having fun.
The other part not mentioned was weight and the amount of space needed for the batteries. The lithium battery weighs less and needs less space. But if you are on a large piece of ground with plenty of room for storage you don't need to worry.the nice part of the battle born batteries is they have built in safety features. Plus when in a mobile app. The weight is approximately 30 pounds per battery. It's not always about which products are cheaper. Space and weight are important things to consider also.
Awesome video's. Thank You very much. You really explained the info very well. I learn something new with each video,and I hope to have my DIY solar system up in the few months. Thanks again.
A technical question. Which of these set ups charges quicker? Using a same charger and solar panel system with the same amount of sun?
Would love to hear the pros and cons of higher voltage battery banks vs 12 volt.
simply $$$.$$
Lead acid set cost $600, lithium set cost $3000. Dude says lithium is 4-5 longer lasting, 3000 is 5 times 600, it's all relative people. Most likely you aren't going to have the same system 20 years so the lead acid and AGM sets are a much smarter choice as over time the lithium batteries will come down in price as technology cheapens the production costs.
Great points hear! Thanks for sharing đđ»
I paid $135.00 per cell for my CALB LiFePO4 100 Ah 3.2 volt cells from EV West.
For four cells run in series to make a 12.8 volt 100 Ah battery bank. I paid $583.20 sales tax and shipping included
When you buy "bare"cells"that is WITHOUT a "BMS' withs for Solar use is totally unnecessary if you regular monitor cell voltages with a cheap volt meter, and DO NOT use LiON but instead opt for the Large prismatic LiFePo4 cells, and make it a habit to stay within a maximum DOD of 80 Percent Max ( lead cannot regularly be discharged lower than 50 percent DOD if you love your cells) you will vind out that Lithium (LiFePo4) is indeed the CHEAPEST option (pays itself of in just a couple of years especially for people who have to use a GAS generator (in winter) to take there LEAD acid batterys each and every time to the brim to fight sulphation.....
giottodiotto1 I believe the Lead-Acid vs Lithium debate will go on for ever, And I as most others in Batteryâs for Solar Energy storage have their favoriteâs. Also home energy storage vs Mobile/Portable I.e RV/Boat and Portable Solar Generators. And which is best for their Application
I have bought and own both types, AGM anyways, But I believe that LiFiPO4 are far superior that the others , For example 100 Ahâs at 12.8 volts nominal will give you about 1 KWh of usable wattage per cycle times an average life of 2000 cycles give you 2 Megawatts worth of Usability, How many Amp Hours of Lead-Acid batteries would you need to make 2 Megawatts of Usability, Maybe 400 Amp Hours at a 25% DOD will get you 1500 cycles from Lead-Acid
I totally concur, unfornationally a lot of people go for the "easy"option that is they buy the cheapest Lead batteries they can find(marine type modified/ re-branded CAR/STARTER batteries) and think they have a good deal, totally ignoring the fact that most lead batteries are practically dead in two to tree years in a dayly cycling regime be it on a boat or stationary solar setup, thus the TCO is very HIGH, and satisfaction is LOw, when its time to replace this dead lead pile(....) they will not spend more money than the previous time and do again buy Lead again, so making the same mistake over and over again, much better solution would be to spend a little more upfront with NEW TECHNOLOGY batteries, LiFePo4 to be precise, only than after many more years to find out there mistake!
SUPERB!!! You are a talented teacher!
Iâm sticking with my AGM, I monitor the voltage every few hours while camping
Thank you so much. I live on a boat and I have no real electrical system on my boat. I am looking into solar, wind, and hydro with batteries. I know there is no free ride, but a boat is as close as it gets.
Diesel main? What apliances on board?
Great video, I think you show, parallel and series COMBINATION system, that increased both Volts and capacity
I love this video. I send it to a lot of people I see asking basic questions. But one question I haven't figure out yet is, what is the advantage or disadvantage of having a 6v battery vs a 12v battery? From what I can tell, they're both similar in price (when comparing ah).
The answer could be another separate video, but in simple terms, voltage X amps = power (watts). Higher voltage systems (48V vs 12 volt) require less current (amps) to provide the same amount of power. Less amps means cable /wire sizes can be smaller (less expensive). Notice that electric appliances with a heating element (dryers, range tops, etc) require more power (watts), so they are designed to run on 240 vac which requires half the current than if it was designed as a 120V appliance. Hope that made sense.
Very helpful and easy to comprehend. Thanks
Perfect. What a clean and excellent explanation.
I have 20 Walmart 29 max flooded batteries running sense 2014 and going strong on a 6000 watt solar array .It is now July 2021 EverStart Maxx Marine Battery, Group Size 29DC (12 Volts/845 CCA)
You dummed It down too much but excellent video quality and knowledge!
Your content is awesome thank you! Always wanted to get into Solar.
Good research, comparisons and info
Extremely helpful comparison to a novice like myself.
Woww! At last! Excellent explanation you won a new suscriber!! Cheers!
Upgraded my camper with 2x 110 amp h lithiums. So far they are amazing
At $2,000 for 2 @ 100Ah 12 Volt batteries, they had better be very amazing ...
Excellent video and excellent step by step explanation, thank you sir.
Could you please make video about battery reconditioning and the battery reconditioning technology.
Could you discuss drawbacks/anomalies of parallel battery circuits? I'm old school and the wisdom of those days forbid batteries (dry cells, wet cells, etc.) from being connected in parallel. The premise was that the parallel bank only performed to the limitations of the lowest performing cell (discharge rate and voltage level). So it was never a simple matter of increasing current capacity by multiplying the number of cells. The net gain was mostly disappointing. I have always assumed that there be some sort of isolation/"ideal diode" circuit for those battery banks with parallel connections. Has this changed and now simply ignored?
YOU ARE A GREAT SPEAKER
Great video, give one a great perspective on setup and cost, which for lot of us is a factor, if not a major one. I've not found anyone that has done a video "just" on a straight battery bank to service a house. So my goal is to have a large enough battery bank to put out 350 kwh per month, 11.66 per day,, and this is a bit on the high side. For now I will charge the batteries with my generator, eventually I'll add solar panels to help with this as well.
So what I'm trying to learn is how many 200AH batteries would I need to give me the 11.66 kwh per day needed?. Thanks
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I agree with concerns about weight, especially for us in RVâs we are pulling, it is a big concern between the different type of batteries.
Just as a FYI some lithium batteries (such as battleborn which you show) allow 100% of the battery to be used. In battebornâs case, the 100 amps is usable and the battery is actually larger than 100 amp but the bms turns it off at 100 amps. Have never heard what itâs true amps is but heard speculation itâs about 120 amps. I just got one last week Iâm presently installing as a test in RV before potentially getting more đ
+Jason Smith Absolutely. I picked four areas to compare but like I said, there are many more variables that would have clouded the purpose of the video. I will go into much more detail in future videos. Yes, some lithium batteries can go full use so I really should have put ~80%+. Thanks for the great added info đ
Yes I agree hard to discuss everything in one video. I think you did a great job to keep the content and info at a reasonable amount to digest.
I think all the LiFePO4 batteries that come in a regular battery case with BMS included will be 100% usable. The 80% probably kick in when you use the lithium stacks which don't come with BMS - so you first build your battery and then attach temperature sensors an BMS boards to them (think: deconstructed Lithium battery). At that point you'd have to adjust for the 80% discharge.
but why would you want a 12v or 24v system ? higher the voltage, lower the amperage so does it all come down to wire size and saving money on smaller gauge wire?
You can fully discharge every battery, lead acid and lithium based, but it comes at a cost... that of the length of the battery's usable life or number of cycles. You do not damage the battery by fully discharging it, otherwise it would stop working the first time it happens. You wear it out faster, that's all. Most batteries do not "die" because of sulfation, they die because of plate erosion, a process that happens faster as the battery is more deeply discharged. It happens from the outside of the pasted plate towards the inside where the support grid is situated. Depth of discharge really does mean what it says. The deeper that you discharge the battery, quite literally, the deeper the chemical action goes into the plate. That quick charge you give your car battery to get it started when it is near the end of its life is known as a surface charge and it is literally on the surface but enough to get you going. Bad analogy, I known but you don't give a deep cycle battery a surface charge. They require an overcharge at a low rate for an hour or so to get the charge "equalized" among all the plates to as great a depth as possible. That is why flooded lead acid batteries need to be topped up every so often. If you equalize an AGM battery, you will lose water from each cell as it is electrolysed into hydrogen and oxygen and the stronger resulting acid will erode the plates even faster.
I haven't made any comments about lithium based batteries as I haven't had any experience with large ones apart from not overcharging or over-discharging them. Large lithium based batteries are $10 per amp-hour and LiFePO4 types in New Zealand, so a 400AH 12 volt battery if you can afford it, is $4,000. Most people stick to lead-acid types which are around $1.30 per AH for flooded and $2.50 per AH for AGM and SLA types.
Why do people, you included, say that by putting batteries in parallel you get more amps? Dude, the correct term is amp-hours or capacity. The amps depend on the load connected to the battery. Another mistake that I'll point out that people make when putting batteries in series and parallel is that the voltage and "current" is doubled or multiplied to some degree. The correct way to explain it is by adding not multiplying the terms. You may want an 18 volt supply, lord knows why, maybe to use your portable 18 volt drill on, it's either 3 by 6 volt batteries or a 10 volt plus an 8 volt one and they have been made for specialist equipment like cameras and portable tools. Some miner's head lamps were 4 volts, many years ago before LEDs even existed.
Apart from those mistakes, not a bad explanation. Cheers.
Thank you so much your vlog is very informative.. i will be using the 4 6v batteries and will maintain them as 'ive been told lithium batteries dont really work well with all mppt solar chargers...
you sir are a PRO!!!