I’m looking into a Woodstock ideal stove for the next heating season. Going to make the trip down to the company next month to check it out. I’m looking for a stove that doesn’t need filling every couple hours and will keep a constant heat output and the ideal seems to fit the bill for me plus I like the idea of buying a stove directly from the manufacturer that is local
Fine explanation cat vs non cat vs hybrid. We used VC cat stoves for 100% heat with the original VC makers --3 Encores over years. We tried the "new and improved " Encores but they were not controllable with NO customer service. BUTT Vermont Castings ain't the same with various owners. Given up on cat stoves for heating now using two Jotul non cats. Why ? Simple operation and maintenance. If you use the cat stoves hard for full heating as we do, the cat life is ~ 2 seasons or perhaps 12,000 hours of burning. Replacement catalysts are over $250. Parts need replacing. Yes, the cat stoves do long slow clean burns. Woodstock, Blaze King, and Jotul are excellent customer oriented manufacturers. VC not so. Pretty stoves however.
I’ve heard of VCs decline. They’re in a big conglomerate now. I burn 24/7 during heating season and am on year 3 with the original catalyst in my Woodstock Ideal Steel. One reason I went with Woodstock is the catalyst for my stove is currently $185 from them, and it’s a stainless foil instead of ceramic. You’re correct that after about 12-14,000 hours, they’re generally consumed. The theory is they add enough efficiency to pay for themselves via savings on wood. I’m not sure that works out in most cases, but probably does for my Woodstock. I seem to burn a little less wood for the same heat with the Woodstock than previous non-catalytic stoves.
I have a DS Stove that burns wood or coal, wood burns at 500 degrees and coal at 1500, if air is added those temps double. The first time I burned coal, I had to open the windows and let the heat out, now I wait till the temp gets to 20F or less...
I have a CI2700 and that one I can cut back and the cat is located around the bend of the baffle. Idk how it will be long-term for flame impingement. So far 8 hour burns of usefull heat vs advertised 14 but there's a primary air plate I have coming to cut the nickel sized opening down to a pencil eraser hopefully this week so we will see how that goes. The 1500 seems like it's a secondary air burning stove and only have the cat in there to meet emissions. What do you typically get for usefull heat burn times?
Different design on those stoves. Primarily a catalytic stove, and should perform as such - meaning slower burn, without needing to produce as much heat in the firebox to burn the smoke.
Yeah having the cat right under the flue is asking for soot to fall down the pipe clogging the cat not to mention losing heat up the stack. Bad design imo. How hard is that cat to get at to clean?
Well, if I ever had to heat a house with a stove, it would almost certainly be Woodstock Ideal Steel Hybrid. Simply the best. The only "weak" link is the catalytic combustor. If one could get 20 years of hard service out of them, instead of the usual 2-3, that would be insane. I dont care if they cost 2-3 times more.
Some manufacturers charge like $500 for a combustor that doesn’t last for any more burn hours. Woodstock charges somewhere around $180. Not bad at all. After 2 heating seasons of 24/7 burning, my catalytic combustor is still fine. I will get another after this year to have on hand. The saying is the added efficiency pays for the combustors. I like that it’s a stainless foil combustor over ceramic. It can take a bit more heat and is holding up very well.
I suppose you could, but draft and burn rate would increase, efficiencies would go down, and emissions would go up. It might void warranty too. That being said, I think with the Regency it would be fine. On the Woodstock Ideal Steel, I’d be a little more concerned about overfiring if the cat were not in place due to higher draft. There is a big difference in response from bypass open to closed on that stove. Very little on the Regency.
On the Regency i1500, 12 hours is impossible. I would believe that for the i2500 though, as my i2400 non-cat would do 10 hours no problem. The i1500 is more like 4 hours if you want to get a fire going easily from coals. The Woodstock Ideal Steel? No comparison. Size-wise it’s a much larger firebox. With a little coaxing I can get the fire going from coals after 24+ hours with decent hardwood. Normal burn cycle is 11-14 hours.
@@chevy6794 usually a manufacturer will list burn time from reload until the last ember goes out. By that metric, my Ideal Steel has done 30 hours. It’s not hit for the last 15 of those hours though. Just a little warm. Barely warm after 24 hours.
@@ProductiveRecreation 15hrs of heat is still impressive. I’m thinking of upgrading. It would be nice to have the high heat for really cold weather and low and slow for spring and fall.
I’m not a combustion technology fanboy one way or the other (I like and have owned both), but catalytic stove owners would disagree with you. Both technologies are about emissions. Secondary air requires more heat to ignite the smoke than a catalyst (and thus a hotter, faster burning fire), but they both burn smoke and increase efficiency. Having a hotter fire is not the same as creating more heat from the wood. Cat stoves are almost always more efficient, which means they produce more heat from the wood, although they don’t do it as quickly. I can do a cat burn with a black firebox on my Woodstock stove and easily have the stove top at 500-600F and single wall pipe at 300F from the cat burn. Those are perfect stove temps. I can achieve the same temps without the cat, with less control, and for noticeably less time.
the only reason I like Catalytic stoves is because of the longer burn time that they can offer. Emissions are not my concern because "Climate Change" is a scam designed to empty your bank account. The forest will clean the wood smoke out of the air because thats what trees do and they need co2 to be alive. Recently I was out getting fire wood in a Smokey area because of forest fire, it was fairly Smokey and the haze was thick in the air, getting just 50 feet off the road and into the forest the smoke was alot less, Why? Because the trees were cleaning the air. BTW I dont cut down live trees, I cut up dead ones laying on the forest floor, its usually nice dry wood and it cleans up the tinder on the forest floor which is what allows forest fires to happen in the first place. Dont make your wood stove purchase based on "Emission" standards, make it based on what works for you and your budget.
Catalytic stoves over rated. Clean emissions come from seasoned thus dry wood. I removed my combustor out of my blaze king. Burns just as clean and efficient without the useless combustor. Also have a zero tolerance fire place and have removed the combustor in that as well. Combustor’s get clogged and need cleaning which can only be done cold. Thus you have to shut down stove.
I’m looking into a Woodstock ideal stove for the next heating season. Going to make the trip down to the company next month to check it out. I’m looking for a stove that doesn’t need filling every couple hours and will keep a constant heat output and the ideal seems to fit the bill for me plus I like the idea of buying a stove directly from the manufacturer that is local
Hope to hear what you think of the Woodstock Ideal Steel Hybrid.
Did you get to check out the company? If so what did you think?
Fine explanation cat vs non cat vs hybrid. We used VC cat stoves for 100% heat with the original VC makers --3 Encores over years. We tried the "new and improved " Encores but they were not controllable with NO customer service. BUTT Vermont Castings ain't the same with various owners.
Given up on cat stoves for heating now using two Jotul non cats. Why ? Simple operation and maintenance. If you use the cat stoves hard for full heating as we do, the cat life is ~ 2 seasons or perhaps 12,000 hours of burning. Replacement catalysts are over $250. Parts need replacing. Yes, the cat stoves do long slow clean burns. Woodstock, Blaze King, and Jotul are excellent customer oriented manufacturers. VC not so. Pretty stoves however.
I’ve heard of VCs decline. They’re in a big conglomerate now. I burn 24/7 during heating season and am on year 3 with the original catalyst in my Woodstock Ideal Steel. One reason I went with Woodstock is the catalyst for my stove is currently $185 from them, and it’s a stainless foil instead of ceramic. You’re correct that after about 12-14,000 hours, they’re generally consumed. The theory is they add enough efficiency to pay for themselves via savings on wood. I’m not sure that works out in most cases, but probably does for my Woodstock. I seem to burn a little less wood for the same heat with the Woodstock than previous non-catalytic stoves.
I have a DS Stove that burns wood or coal, wood burns at 500 degrees and coal at 1500, if air is added those temps double.
The first time I burned coal, I had to open the windows and let the heat out, now I wait till the temp gets to 20F or less...
I have a CI2700 and that one I can cut back and the cat is located around the bend of the baffle. Idk how it will be long-term for flame impingement. So far 8 hour burns of usefull heat vs advertised 14 but there's a primary air plate I have coming to cut the nickel sized opening down to a pencil eraser hopefully this week so we will see how that goes. The 1500 seems like it's a secondary air burning stove and only have the cat in there to meet emissions. What do you typically get for usefull heat burn times?
Thanks for you video. What do you think about the Regency Pro Series? F3500 and F5200? It's differente from the Cascade series?
Different design on those stoves. Primarily a catalytic stove, and should perform as such - meaning slower burn, without needing to produce as much heat in the firebox to burn the smoke.
Yeah having the cat right under the flue is asking for soot to fall down the pipe clogging the cat not to mention losing heat up the stack. Bad design imo. How hard is that cat to get at to clean?
Working on that video for next week.
Well, if I ever had to heat a house with a stove, it would almost certainly be Woodstock Ideal Steel Hybrid. Simply the best. The only "weak" link is the catalytic combustor. If one could get 20 years of hard service out of them, instead of the usual 2-3, that would be insane. I dont care if they cost 2-3 times more.
Some manufacturers charge like $500 for a combustor that doesn’t last for any more burn hours. Woodstock charges somewhere around $180. Not bad at all. After 2 heating seasons of 24/7 burning, my catalytic combustor is still fine. I will get another after this year to have on hand. The saying is the added efficiency pays for the combustors. I like that it’s a stainless foil combustor over ceramic. It can take a bit more heat and is holding up very well.
Bro, get out the way so we can see the stove and not your mug.
If cat goes out can you still use as non cat stove burner without replacing cat
I suppose you could, but draft and burn rate would increase, efficiencies would go down, and emissions would go up. It might void warranty too. That being said, I think with the Regency it would be fine. On the Woodstock Ideal Steel, I’d be a little more concerned about overfiring if the cat were not in place due to higher draft. There is a big difference in response from bypass open to closed on that stove. Very little on the Regency.
What’s the actual burn time on both in catalyst mode? I saw a video claiming only 12 on the regency. That’s not acceptable to me.
On the Regency i1500, 12 hours is impossible. I would believe that for the i2500 though, as my i2400 non-cat would do 10 hours no problem. The i1500 is more like 4 hours if you want to get a fire going easily from coals. The Woodstock Ideal Steel? No comparison. Size-wise it’s a much larger firebox. With a little coaxing I can get the fire going from coals after 24+ hours with decent hardwood. Normal burn cycle is 11-14 hours.
@@ProductiveRecreation ok. Thanks. Some of the straight catalyst ones are claiming 30hrs?
@@chevy6794 usually a manufacturer will list burn time from reload until the last ember goes out. By that metric, my Ideal Steel has done 30 hours. It’s not hit for the last 15 of those hours though. Just a little warm. Barely warm after 24 hours.
@@ProductiveRecreation ok. Thank you very much. Good to know.
@@ProductiveRecreation 15hrs of heat is still impressive. I’m thinking of upgrading. It would be nice to have the high heat for really cold weather and low and slow for spring and fall.
Secondary air creates more heat while catalysts are really for emissions.
I’m not a combustion technology fanboy one way or the other (I like and have owned both), but catalytic stove owners would disagree with you. Both technologies are about emissions. Secondary air requires more heat to ignite the smoke than a catalyst (and thus a hotter, faster burning fire), but they both burn smoke and increase efficiency. Having a hotter fire is not the same as creating more heat from the wood. Cat stoves are almost always more efficient, which means they produce more heat from the wood, although they don’t do it as quickly. I can do a cat burn with a black firebox on my Woodstock stove and easily have the stove top at 500-600F and single wall pipe at 300F from the cat burn. Those are perfect stove temps. I can achieve the same temps without the cat, with less control, and for noticeably less time.
the only reason I like Catalytic stoves is because of the longer burn time that they can offer. Emissions are not my concern because "Climate Change" is a scam designed to empty your bank account. The forest will clean the wood smoke out of the air because thats what trees do and they need co2 to be alive. Recently I was out getting fire wood in a Smokey area because of forest fire, it was fairly Smokey and the haze was thick in the air, getting just 50 feet off the road and into the forest the smoke was alot less, Why? Because the trees were cleaning the air. BTW I dont cut down live trees, I cut up dead ones laying on the forest floor, its usually nice dry wood and it cleans up the tinder on the forest floor which is what allows forest fires to happen in the first place. Dont make your wood stove purchase based on "Emission" standards, make it based on what works for you and your budget.
I need to thin out my beech trees lol or I would do the same
Catalytic stoves over rated. Clean emissions come from seasoned thus dry wood.
I removed my combustor out of my blaze king.
Burns just as clean and efficient without the useless combustor.
Also have a zero tolerance fire place and have removed the combustor in that as well.
Combustor’s get clogged and need cleaning which can only be done cold. Thus you have to shut down stove.