Roundabouts: The Rad, The Raunchy, and the Ridiculous
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- čas přidán 5. 08. 2023
- Are roundabouts good or bad? It turns out, there's more to it then you probably expected. Like so many things, it depends on the context.
A lot of people from around the world helped provide footage for this video, and I wanted to give them credit.
Six of the stock footage scenes were provided by Not Just Bikes. Thanks Jason!
Double lane roundabout footage at 9:23 to 9:45 provided by Evan Singer.
Roundabout footage from 7:26 to 7:39 provided by UrbanJerseyGuy
Thank you to Justin and Anton for helping me film the rest of the footage of this video!
Norway also loves roundabouts. They also love tunnels through mountains. So in 2013 they combined the two and built a roundabout in the middle of a tunnel. The Vallavik Tunnel.
Not to one up you, but just wanted to mention the Faroe Islands underwater tunnel roundabout built in 2020: Eysturoyartunnilin. It connects 3 islands and is very pretty.
@@RedSaint83"and it's very pretty" made me laugh on the bus 😅
Stumbled upon that on vacation by accident, its amazing!
@@RedSaint83 I just looked up both and they look identical :P They look absolutely outlandish, very cool
@@RedSaint83 Ah the Nordic countries, the passive aggressive competitive group
Glad to see the shout out for Dutch smart signals - they are amazing. I always wondered why they were not more prevalent in the US, which seems to always go on timed signal cycles - so interesting to see how the road design itself makes them possible. Would love to see a video just on these!
Wow. I am aware we have excellent roads and city planning here, but i never thought of our signals to be particularly smart.
We have so called "green waves" where the traffic lights on a road are all connected so they turn green at an interval corresponding to their distance, so that when you drive at about the speed limit, you will have all green lights. Those are only in a few places though. I am still hoping someday (soon preferably) someone starts developing actual smart systems where signals in an entire city are connected so that basically every street has a green wave and crossing streets with green waves can be in sync.
I would imagine this should be especially feasible for US cities with the squared design. Just imagine all lights to be in sync, with waves of cars moving on the intersecting streets in a way everyone can almost always have green lights.... (id make every read 1-way in such a grid as well, but i imagine that is already being done a lot. I saw it a lot in central american grid design cities)
@@arjensmit6684Green-waves are actually rather common in a lot of American cities, but they aren’t that efficient. Green waves are efficient on arterials colliding with collectors since they can keep traffic moving faster on the arterials, however; American cities don’t tend to stick to typical road hierarchy rules meaning arterials will collide with a lot of arterials. How will you manage green wave phases in grids of arterial roads?
@@roy_hksLook at a video of how starlink satelites are moving in this nice patern where they cross eachothers paths and both dotted lines go trough the other's gap. Thats how i imagine it working in a grid city but then it's waves of cars moving in the gaps of the waves on the crossing roads.
@@arjensmit6684 just go to Germany or Poland and check how much time you will be waiting on red while there is no other traffic.
It's quite disappointing. :(
Traffic signals are a science. Not just the road design, but the timing, prioritization of traffic directions according to time of day, having slower cycles when traffic is heavier, having more short cycles for pedestrians and cyclist and fewer and longer cycles for cars in the same intersection. And more.
As a dutch person, I really enjoy these videos; I never think about these things, they're simply not a part of my active mind eventhough I'm interested in infrastructure (That shouldn't be a surprise, since I'm here om this video). These videos do make it an active part of my mind. Makes me realise how lucky I am that my country has taken the time, effort and money to make sure I can cycle to my work every day, still half asleep sometimes and don't have to worry about my safety or that of others.
Yeah, I'm super jealous of that honestly. (American living in a small city that tries but still falls short of Dutch engineering.) Just today I had the privilege of walking straight through the urban center of my home of Greensboro, NC, near Charlotte (no doubt you've seen videos declaring it one if the "sprawl capitals" of the world). It was such a weird feeling to be the only non-homeless person walking through a city center, having to constantly check over my shoulder to make sure no one was about to run a red light and hit me, and even then I actually had to stare down an SUV because its driver apparently couldn't see my 6' tall runners frame crossing the street when I was given the crossing light. It all felt especially odd coming off of an internship in Washington, DC, where pedestrian traffic is much more normal and while the infrastructure still clearly favors cars, the laws and policies are at least catching up with where they should be. There, I could at least pretty comfortably walk across a street without fear that some distracted driver wouldn't notice me doing arguably the most human activity ever.
@@wombatpandaa9774once you come to the Netherlands and experience bicycle and pedestrian traffic here you'll love it. Also we have no idea abt the place where you're from. We dont get much US News thats not about more internationally important topics.
The thing is usa traffic infrastructure is particularly bad, but it's not cheap. Netherlands is building lots of cycling infrastructure and takes the money saved to get the reduced amount of car infrastructure to a higher level. Usas refusal to exploit thas efficiency and preference for hughly inefficient patterns (suv/trucks, sprawl) means they don't have the money for decent infrastructure. They are often struggling to pay for the most basic of utilities and services.
@@wombatpandaa9774you should watch videos that breakdown how the Netherlands is like living in NYC bity with more air pollution from cars somehow.
@@wombatpandaa9774 Ha I just went across the border to Belgium and already ran into that problem. You go round one corner from the main shopping boulevard and youre on a street with half a meter wide curbs and getting followed around by homeless people while cars speed by. Glad it was only for one day.
In the UK we have a fixation on making roundabouts as fast as possible so we have really high entry and exist speeds and often two or more lanes on even small residential roundabouts. This not only makes them leathal if you're on a bike and very difficult to cross as a pedestrian but often just diminishes the capacity / speed overall becuase there's so many conflict points. Its really frustrating
Exactly, the slower the entry speed, the more vehicles you can get in, sequentially at every entry point.
And in the UK they have the ridiculous idea of a roundabout that ALSO has traffic lights on it.
@@jfwfreo Exactly. The one at Dupont Circle being a particularly egregious example.
@@KokowaSarunoKuniDesu Dupont Circle in DC isn't a roundabout, its a traffic circle with totally different rules.
Roundabouts or traffic circles definitely don't scale to large sizes and fast speeds. There is a gnarly one in Chicago that has claimed many casualties.
Amazing video! The issue in America of roundabouts being added as a response rather than a precaution is very much true. Near me there was an intersection exiting a school that saw a very high number of collisions constantly. It was redesigned as a 2 lane roundabout. While the number of collisions has decreased, the risk for pedestrians stays nearly the same. People drive straight through it without slowing down, ignoring the painted lanes. It's as if the roundabout isn't even there!
US traffic engineers mistake multi-lane traffic circles for true roundabouts. They like them for supposedly being able to allow more traffic to pass through, until someone causes a collision in a traffic circle.
Another mistake with implementation of roundabouts in the US is lack of accommodation for pedestrians, people on bikes, wheelchairs, etc. There are so many examples of safe and well-functioning roundabouts but we fail to simply re-apply what has been proven to work.
Multilane roundabouts (called turbo roundabout in The Netherlands) in America should get raised medians instead of painted lines, that would prevent speeding on roundabouts. If drivers aren’t behaving, they should be guided instead, between raised medians you can’t switch lanes like with painted separations. And why on earth doesn’t America use smart traffic lights? Waiting times for traffic lights will decrease massively. It seems that America is so backwards with road infrastructure, they can only think in more car lanes, dumb traffic lights and stop signs. Our roads of 2 lanes (one in both directions) with lower speed limits flow much better and with higher average speeds than 10 lane stroads in America. Don’t muddle through or invent something new, just copy and adjust the scientific CROW guidelines of The Netherlands. It is that easy, to get higher average speeds and less traffic casualties.
Actually, roundabouts are used as a response in the Netherlands quite often. One was made in a village close to where I live as a response to accidents with young cyclists riding to school.
There is a major 2 lane roundabout in the town nearby that solved this problem by adding a traffic light at the exit and entrance to one side of the roundabout to allow for pedestrian traffic to cross. It's a compromise, but does work a lot better for traffic throughput than if it was a traditional traffic light intersection.
@@RealConstructor not sure about America but in Canada I don't think smart traffic lights would be viable given the freezing and snow
Having grown up in the netherlands myself, I never paid much attention to any of these things, and really took them for granted. Now after seeing more and more videos like these, the more I've come to appreciate having grown up here instead of, for example, car-centric america
If you grow up in a city the size of most of the Netherlands you would experience about the same. Except less child lung conditions brought on by cars in the Netherlands
I really appreciate the scientific approach vs. the 'because we said so' approach that's unfortunately common in the world. I think there is a similar issue in the world of firefighting.
If you really want a scientific approach, know that train based transportation is scientifically more efficient in any metric you choose. And it's better for the environment.
Funny to compare it to fire, the Dutch designed the firehose after a fire broke out in Amsterdam, in 1600's.
@@ciro_costa Surely not in any metric you choose.
I am from the Netherlands. My small, densely populated country should be ideal for public transport.
I live in Eindhoven. Its about 120 km to Amsterdam.
I have the choise between using my car or the train:
In my car i spend about 7 litres of diesel (1.8 gallons) to get there. That costs me 12 euro's (yes thats >7 USD a gallon, mostly taxes).
If you want to be fair, you can add insurance, maintenance costs and value loss on the car and we get about 20,-
A train tickets costs 23,-.
It takes 80 minutes by train. Which roughly equals the time it takes by car. In rush hour i would probably spend about 15 minutes more by car, late night ill spend 15 minutes less.
Except that i dont live on top of central station and i dont need to be at central station. Add the time it takes to get to and from the trainstations as well as the money needed for those busses and i need about an hour less time and 10 less euros to use the car instead of the train. And that includes maintenance and value loss on the car.
And then you need to realize that the car is heavily taxed in every way imaginable and the train is subsidized.
To be honest, i cant understand this. I even have a hard time believing it is that much better for the environment. all that money has to be spend on something after all. (basically in the end you can revert all money spending to resources and energy, which equals environmental damage)
@@arjensmit6684I think the original intent was to point out that trains are more efficient because of the number of people they can transport at one time, not because of the overall cost per person. A train can handle the same number of people as dozens, perhaps hundreds of cars, and if built correctly, can eliminate much of the issues that cars pose on the environment or on the people.
@@wombatpandaa9774 No, he said by any metric. What you say is "a" metric, surely not any.
This is an excellent explanation! It does make me wonder what options an American grid system even has to slowly moving towards separating flow types. A step by step guide to stroad redesign and repurposing would be funny ::)
It's not really hard to do that on a grid system and of course, much of the communities being built new typically aren't on a grid in the first place.
It is actually a plan that the Netherlands is following. It hasn't always been like this, and wasn't built in a day.
But there is a plan, and when something is rebuilt, it is prepared to fit in a long term plan.
I think flow types will only be able to be separated once land-use types (I don't mean separation of uses, I mean suburban style development vs traditional development) are separated. A grid system like those in the Midwest and the southwest would be fine as long as it looked more like the traditional core of a city. You can have your long roads in rural areas but once you reach a town or city that is where you have something like a roundabout, and then from there you could still have a grid but the city blocks must become smaller. Driving lanes are narrowed and separated from sidewalks and bike paths, and transit exists. The key is to build a place where driving doesn't have to be your main option for moving around. The future of stroads lies in whether they should be turned into a road or a street. Remove signalized intersections and limit access? Or remove/narrow lanes and intensify surrounding land-use? I feel like it depends on the particular development.
In the Netherlands towns and villages usually developed along a road, waterway or at a place for crossing waterways. The fisrt two are stretch out through the middle and when road traffic became too busy, a road was constructed around the community. So this system developed over time until it got official policy in 1995. If you have to change a large grid system around, that is going to cost a tremendous amount of disruption and capital. In short : COUNTRIES WITH A PREVAILING GRID SYSTEM ARE TOO LATE!
I don't think North America really has any options other than wait for the area to become blighted and then do urban renewal. Real estate acquisition costs along these stroads often make any solutions financially infeasible. Then there are the Karens and NIMBYs who don't want anything changed.
It's amazing how much more scientific road design is approached here. Road design should not be seen as a us vs. them as it seems to be the case in many other places where the conversation seems to focus on bikes vs. cars. In The Netherlands I have seen so many times how a driver sitting in their car will pull over and speak to a person on a bike. They are not enemies and to them it is completely normal that each of them can use the public streets!
Edit: I forgot to say great video! You explain things really well and your channel shows how the Dutch are not just building roads this way because of some ideology or because of climate reasons, rather they build for efficiency and safety which comes with other positive side effects. Love your channel!
Correct! There is no race, class, or gender distinction between modes of travel. People use a car to visit family, use a bicycle to go an evening out or to the sports field, use the train with a short walk to go to work.
We all have a car (or taxi) available, a bicycle, and a pair of shoes, and use them as efficient as possible.
Indeed a great video that is an eye opener for those involved with all kind of travel!
That is just so rational it makes me extremely happy
@@dutchman7623shouldn’t* but alas. If only we could shift our cultural norms to support it.
Compliments! High quality content! Let's hope it will be seen by those who can learn from it.
Thank you!
This was quite informative, as an American who doesn’t really understand why traffic is so bad here. Thank you for the lesson!
idk if i'd ever had it broken down like this before even being an avid yimby-youtube watcher, i knew about stroads and roads and streets but the four-way division between long/short roads, streets, and pedestrian spaces is super useful and super clear to me now-and of course the types of roundabouts and their strengths and weaknesses, thanks and keep up great work i really appreciate your content!
There are more categories than that. Roads are divided into highways (marked with a letter A), with speeds between 100 and 130km/h, then there are the long roads (marked with a letter N) that are between 60 and 100 km/h, then there are the short roads that are 50-80, then we have streets, that are 30-50.
And we have bike streets where bikes have priority and cars are only allowed for people living in that street who are commuting home, other cars have to make a detour, and then there are pedestrian/bike only streets.
These last two categories are one of the main ways cycling is promoted in the Netherlands by having the most direct ways in and out of city centers be bike only and making cars take detours to get there. As well as extremely limited and very expensive parking in the city centers. A few hours in Amsterdam could easily cost you 30 euro for parking alone, so its cheaper and faster to take the train and rent a bike.
In most towns you can commute from your home to the town center, or the train station in the town center, faster on a bike than in a car, and due to traffic its usally faster to take the train as well unless you need to go to a very remote area.
This all helps to drive down car use, sadly our public transport is underfunded, understaffed and overcrowded since covid, so people are driving more now than they did a few years ago.
Greetings from Stevenage, England! Stevenage was originally built in the 1950s for 60,000 people without a single traffic light! It's a great case study for why an efficient road network can be bad. Also shoutout to Hemel Hempstead's magic roundabout!
Yay - I think Hemel Hemspstead's magic roundabout is better than the magic roundabout in Swindon - I found it less confusing.
@@JennyWoodruff
My father had a hand in the design of that roundabout.
Yep, got to agree. High Wycombe has sort of got one too, aswell as Swindon
There far far less cars then then there are now.
Most old Dutch small cities didn't have traffic lights way back in the fifties.
I'm so happy that you referenced command and conquer there - I know it's a defunct title with the most recent release in it being a hilariously terrible flop on the market, but I still sometimes feel way older than I am, knowing that people have almost forgotten all about command and conquer.
One of the (many) issues with roundabouts in Canada is drivers do not know how to drive through them. There were zero roundabouts in Nova Scotia when I got my license. The first time I ever drove through a roundabout was when I was living in New Zealand. Then when I moved back to Nova Scotia, there were a bunch of roundabouts there. And anyone who got their license before I did would have received the same amount of training as I did (zero).
if a round about is designed well, you cannot do it wrong
@@h50herman When I was in university one of my professors told a joke: "The engineering profession is a constant struggle between engineers making bigger and better idiot-proof designs; and god making bigger and better idiots."
>Also, the first time I went through a roundabout, my dad drove the wrong way through it.
@@h50hermanpeople don't know how to use blinkers or anything though while in them
Really enjoying your videos. Whenever I visit the US I go positively insane coming to all these 4 way stops in residential areas. I always think they'd benefit from a mini roundabout like they do in the UK, but as you have pointed out, the solution is much simpler than that in some ways. If the travel surface was designed to properly slow everyone down, we dont need either and vehicles can be traveling at a logical speed to lead to yields.
Interested to hear your opinion on mini roundabouts in general
they miss the forest for the trees. If its needed, there's a bigger problem that needs to be tackled.
But if you really want one, at least try to get some nice landscaping out of it.
@@buildthelanes from NL. you forgot too mention those funny traficlight roundabouth combos like Velperplein by Arnhem/A12.
That’s my thought exactly. Some years ago I visited San Francisco, and I took a bus from downtown to the Pacific coast. It was along Golden Gate Park. 4-way stop. Every 100 meters or so. For a few kilometers. It’s a really strange ride for a European. Also, what a terrible waste of fuel and breaking pads. Look it up on Google maps. It is insane!
3 Words. Swindon Magic Roundabout.
Was the designer stoned at the time?
@@buildthelanes I think you are misunderstanding what a mini-roundabout is in the UK. Many are known as circulatory junctions, being simply a large circular blob of paint in the road with 'Give Way' lines on each entry road. Often found in Town areas where traffic is relatively slow but at times busy, where full time traffic lights are not justified and there is no room for a 'big' solution. A sort of four way stop using Give Way lines to clarify right of way.
Great video, I came a bit late so I'll have to watch again from the beginning! In the US, some cities or states are going crazy with roundabouts (like Arizona) and it is interesting to see them mentioned as duct tape!.
We have been there, done that, and gained insight that it is not a sacred solution.
At 4:15 a roundabout is characterized as landscaping, it is within a residential area, a low speed zone, and could have been done differently. But due to history this spot had a central street and service streets on both sides. Cars would go faster than desired. With this solution, speed is reduced, transition to the side and service streets made easier and it looks nice... Not a traffic necessity, but serves its purpose.
Yes, a city near Las Vegas NV has decided EVERY new intersection will be a roundabout. However all other planning remains the same. Thousands of homes tucked away on endless dead end HOA streets. I think when people say USA doesn't like roundabouts, it's really because they've been used without proper planning.
As someone from Canberra Australia, we absolutely love roundabouts. I have about 20 of them within 1.5km of my house. Big duel lane ones including one with traffic lights for peak hour traffic
Thank you for pointing out just how important it is to be holistic with transportation planning. I recently visited a small town that has a major arterial stroad where the state DOT had four double-lane roundabouts installed within 800 meters. And people complain, because of course, that's insane. No effort was made to rethink how to cut down the number of intersections for this high-volume arterial. Roundabouts are treated as interchangeable, ploppable assets, and the level of planning is so granular and close to the ground as to be useless when it comes to actually improving transportation.
My Dutch brain just without thought goes "large town with lots of through traffic? build a road around it". I don't understand how that's not an obvious solution to the people planning these things in other countries...
excellent video! I like how even before you mentioned how bad planning leads to just using them ever intersection i clicked in my head that will be the problem lol.
Another fantastic video! Cool that I recognized a few of those Dutch examples. Cheers! John
Yeah but you been to our country several times ;p
cheers mate your always welcome in our country :)
Its really great to see Haarlem mentioned and seeing so much B-roll shot there it gives this video something I’ve been interested in for me personally and the workings of my hometown
Great and balanced explanation about roundabouts. Loved it.
What an extraordinarily nuanced exposition. Well done.
Amazing video and you explained all the related topics like different types of roads and streets very well and clearly.
Looking forward to seeing more of your videos. And let’s hope that the “common” person also will take a intrest to the infrastructure around them.
Excellent video, keep up the great work!
Superb video. Clear, logical and concise. Thank you so much .... now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to draw the attention of our road planners and my local councillors at Brighton & Hove City Council to information they've clearly not seen!
BTW .... you just got yourself a new subscriber! 👍
Great Video! Just want to say that you and NJB both make me wanna move to NL from US as soon as possible. Dutch are just superior in every aspect of life. I have been living happy life after moving to US, until I found NJB channel, now I'm watching about roundabouts and traffic intersections nerd stuff. Orange pilled.... Now I just can't unsee and I'm noticing all "not optimal" stuff here.
Again, thanks for your work!
thank you for watching!
As a Dutch guy, we'd be happy to have you here. Though saying we're superior in every aspect of life is just plain false. These sorts of videos highlight the best parts of the Netherlands and while those are plentiful, yes. We, like any other country, have just as many problems in society still. Don't expect our tiny piece of dirt to be paradise cuz it's not
As a Belgian who lives in the US, I urge you to look into plans from your local government mentioning anything like zoning updates, vision zero or transportation. I used to be the exact same way, but I've grown to be far more optimistic now because most city planners in the country have become "orange-pilled," so to say.
I don't think I would wanna move back to Belgium or go to the Netherlands (which would be one of the easiest moves to make for me) because I love American culture. I'm a real foodie and being able to get anything I would ever want sounds like a great deal! Seriously, the international food I had when I went to Amsterdam in July was very disappointing: the spices are way too mild in all dishes and I even got food poisoning from a momo place...
Seriously America has a ton of benefits and if driving/riding on roads is the only issue you have with it, that doesn't really sound like a big reason to move (especially if they're slowly improving it). Also, sometimes you just gotta make shit work: My commute is 30 mins by bike on a sharrow road. It's become so much fun that I kind of don't want to get a dedicated protected bike lane. Still, my city is currently trying to figure out where to install 25 miles of protected bike lane because of their vision zero plan, and my main road is definitely one of the contenders!
I might make the move back to Europe if public education doesn't improve when I have kids however. That's probably the only thing where I'm not seeing any real progress and the latest republican debate doesn't spark hope on that topic either.
We have labour shortages in literally every sector except travel agents, so if you want to, this would be a good time.
This was incredible. You've earned a subscriber.
great vid! I love how you mentioned all the talking points of Carmel, IN w/o naming it 😂
I'm sad that the city lacks nuiance in road design and building themselves into a corner :(
But at least they won't have enormous intersections with timed traffic lights every half mile or more frequently. That's the corner most suburban areas paint themselves into.
This is a great explanation of the Netherlands great road design and the ideal functionality of round abouts (along with some good dunking on stroads). Amazing work!
It seems the crux of the problem is scope; projects are often limited in scope to a single intersection or perhaps a handful. Even if the engineers understand the how to fix the systemic issues, by for example rerouting major through traffic around a town instead of through it, they have to deal with the reality that's it's not in their budget. Remember politicians, not engineers, control the purse strings.
4:17 I wonder whether or not this is actually a roundabout. I don''t see yield triangles on the ground anywhere, meaning this is probably the inverse of a roundabout: everyone on the circle has to give way.
And yes, if thtis is the case it's done for style alone.
We've cycled a lot in the Netherlands - usually on our tandem. One Easter, we rode our tandem with a camping trailer across Flanders and the Netherlands to visit my brother, who was stationed at RAF Laarbruch on the Dutch/German border. Our most recent trip involved a tour by converted barge from Amsterdam, cycling between each night stop. I can confirm that, though the scenery is less than stellar, the cycling facilities and the people more than make up for it. On one longish trip from Rotterdam east almost to the German border we were glad to be able to use a cycle track alongside a motorway to cross the many waterways near the coast. That's very rare in the UK.
I just wish the UK would adopt this method and take non-motorised travellers into account when building roads. Trips we used to take are now almost impossible because new roads cut off the old routes completely.
The N200 is a pretty fun road to drive, driven it a couple of times and it's always a chill drive with nice scenery which you actually get to enjoy because you don't have to worry too much about other cars.
I learned while living in Nairobi that just as there may be a minimum traffic density under which roundabouts are unnecessary, there is a maximum traffic density above which roundabouts just cause traffic snarls. Many times, I have seen a small roundabout brought to a standstill by gridlock, compounded by failure to yield right of way by any of the drivers in the roundabout.
I speak for all the Dutch people, thanks for saying Belgium is bad at roads
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada is famous for its roundabouts (mostly two lane), however, as traffic volumes increased, traffic signals had to be installed to control access ito the roundabout. Many were later converted to conventional intersections controlled by traffic signals.
In my area there’s a square roundabout, and because of the smart way the lanes on it were designed it actually works far better than a regular roundabout or intersection
Love all the images from my home town (Haarlem) :D Great video, keep it up!
Very sophisticated analysis!
If you are thinking double lane roundabouts are scary and dangerous, just take a look at this triple lane roundabout near where I live : 47°13'30.8"N 1°37'15.8"W. It's an absolute nightmare and is infamous among driving schools and young drivers in general.
those exist?
Thanks for the vid, moved away from Haarlem 25yrs ago and it is interesting to see it like this.
Finally, someone who recognized that sometimes you can't just slap a roundabout into a intersection due to space problem. The amount of time i talked to people who just mindlessly think we should just build roundabout in every single intersection is insane.
I grew up in Den Bosch and now live in Den Haag. Fun seeing both places highlighted in this video😊
4:50 the Aussie way: bringing a knife to a roundabout :)
Instant subscription. Really well done video.
Great video, especially for explaining the Dutch road categorization system. That's something that hasn't gotten a lot of airtime to American/English audiences and our attempts are always absolutely trash because we don't maintain the same sort of discipline to the practice that the Dutch do.
It also helps that infrastructure that sees lots of (fatal) accidents get redesigned pretty swift when they're deemed insufficient for their purpose, instead of just blaming the guilty party for being a dumbass.
@@markjacobs1086 Not always though, I can show you places in several towns where multiple people have died and the city did nothing to fix the problem for 20 years, when it is obvious that the spot needs to be redesigned and how to do it
@@markjacobs1086if by "blaming the guilty for being a dumbass" you mean "blaming the dead person for being in the way" then yes, that's more less what we do. Especially if the dead person was not in a car.
@@thesenamesaretaken The only problem with doing that is assuming the car that got them killed was somewhere it should have been &/or was moving at an acceptable speed which in most cases the answer is, no it wasn't, because the one behind the wheel made an error.
@@markjacobs1086 You are correct of course, though it seems that a driver can be drunk and travelling the wrong way well above the speed limit and it will always somehow be the pedestrian's fault for trying to cross the road because he walked out from behind a parked car (and certainly nobody discusses whether drivers ought to be littering the outside with huge cars blocking line of sight in the first place)
another banger. Well done sir!
The fact you mentioned the CROW immediately made me like the vid=D
Im so high rn but mate, this was an insane vid! Keep makin em!
Netherland looking down on Belgium, calling it dumb. Absolutely spot on!
I mean they are just some rebelling provinces after all, and they are to the south
As a Netherlander I never gave road/street design a thought because it is so convenient and obvious for me. And that’s probably a big compliment for the designers. Well done guys !!
After you dropped the pin at 1:20 at an intersection 300 meters from my house I couldn't help but subscribe.
The road leading up to that intersection invites a car to drive fast, especially because it leads to a popular supermarket. As a cyclist it's an uncomfortable road, as a driver - I just stick behind the bikes. I've wondered why they won't put in a roundabout, but the level of traffic wouldn't permit that. The side roads are residential and industrial, while the main thoroughfare is heading towards that supermarket and/or the centre of the village. So according to the guidelines laid out in this excellent video, it doesn't deserve a roundabout.
At either rate - you're producing phenomenal content. I live nearby Haarlem, so I'm enjoying the familiar shots. But your analysis is spot on, and gives the average citizen / me so much more to appreciate. I've been to the East coast of America and... yeah. Not good. Good luck on your transportation engineer qualifications, I hope you're far into your degree, because the Netherlands needs 'outside' perspectives to appreciate what we've got and make it even better.
1:23 Hillegom my hometown! This is close to our town center. :D Thanks for the vid. Also thanks for explaining why some things have good or bad results and how tool is sometimes better than a other design.
Lots of footage from my hometown of Naaldwijk :) nice pick as that roundabout is as crazy as they are going to get in the Netherlands
Great video! I loved it :)
8:35 "Kees Kroket" hahaha fantastic name, imagine a fast-food joint called "Harry Hamburger", "Paul Poutine" or "Faisal Falafel".
There seems to be a world-wide surge in popularity about Dutch infrastructure and I am all for it. Growing up here you don't realise how well designed the infrastructure is, but after watching these kinds of videos I am so much more aware of how nice traffic is in the Netherlands.
That's my favourite thing about these kinds of videos: They make Dutch people like me realise how good we have it, which helps create (political) momentum to keep doing it this way, or even better. Your videos are actively making our roads better let's go baby! Thank you for that.
I think Kees Kroket is in Den Bosch!
I've found from my interactions with north american engineers that they don't have a scientific bone in their bodies. They are more like monks who can only memorize and recite their holy scripture. They never question scripture, if it's in the manual, it's truth. They don't even care about the results. You can show how deaths at a poorly designed intersection have gone up, how congestion is worse, but they don't care. "The design followed the standards to the letter" thus it is perfect. If people are being killed and injured, its their own fault because the standards are perfect so the users must be the problem.
The North American civil engineers basically have to religiously stick to the standards because if they don't and something goes wrong and somebody gets injured or killed, they'll get sued and sometimes they'll even lose their engineering licenses.
It's partly because if they do something that is not the standard, and something happens (at it always will) they are responsible.
If they follow the standard... well, it's in the standard, so by definition they have done nothing wrong.
Yeah that's exactly the problem. They don't care about safety or results, only avoiding liability. A non-standard but safe design is more dangerous to them than a dangerous standard design.
I have yet to find a single hobby that isn’t niche
The only one that’s kind of pushing that definition for me is music
Also, great video
I'm from the Netherlands, visited Japan for two weeks, and dear God did I miss the roundabouts
Fantastic video!
I am glad roundabouts exists in the Netherlands. I literally lived near places that prior to roundabouts dozens of people died on and hundreds of car collisions happened. Like as a Dutch I am glad we care and invest so much in roundabouts it saves lives and traffic time.
As a Dutch guy here's my two cents:
Trying to implement this in (for instance) the US would go way deeper than only changing traffic-, housing-, and commercial infrastructure, effectively splitting current large city centers up into a lot of small ones. You'd need to change people's mindsets, and there's a big chunk of the challenge.
Also the "15 minute city" concept might be interesting for you to check out, but you probably already did! 🙂
What?! A Red Alert 3 scene in this video? Wow!!
Also I love roundabouts, they actually work well here in the Netherlands!
Always wondered what people think about all the roundabouts near Bear Mountain in New York They're unique in my experience of the US and they've been there for a long time.
Spain loves roundabouts to the point where they've replaced nearly all intersections. And they just haphazardly install the dual lane version basically everywhere. Add to that the widespread bad habit of not using indicators and you can imagine what happens in many Spanish towns and villages. As a Dutchman I still don't know how to use these roundabouts properly and I've already had several months of practice.
Hey, I just saw your podcast episode with NotJustBikes and was curious if you know anything about the 'latest and greatest' diamond intersection.
They just opened one up last year in Niagara, Ontario, and apparently the first one was in Calgary, Alberta 6 years ago. It would be cool to see whether this type of intersection exists elsewhere in the world, what its purpose is by definition vs. how people actual behave around it, and whether it actually improves anything or if it's just another stroad accessory.
I am also a civil engineer that was pretty disappointed in the transportation engineering courses and industry here in Ontario, but my line of work is outside the transportation industry. I am continuously disappointed with how Canadians approach transportation engineering lol.
Diverging diamond interchanges are good freeway infrastructure. But because its freeway infrastructure it shouldnt be anywhere near built up cities or pedestrians. Pedestrians shouldnt have to cross here to get over the freeway
Great video!
This was great. I would have liked to have seen more mention of UK style mini roundabouts, which solve a problem common there - the meeting of streets with equal precedence. With unequal precedence you would have a give way, but the UK does *not* have priority to a direction by default! Most of Europe does, the USA does, but the UK doesn’t, so meetings of equal roads cannot be uncontrolled.
01:40, @Build the Lanes, can you provide a weblink for the Crows Manual you reference? When I look on the Crow's website, I don't see a book with this cover. Thank you!
Unfortunately it’s behind a pay wall, you have to have an account to access all the texts. But if you look up “kennisbank crow” it should appear
Awesome video, instant subscribe
Welcome aboard!
My home town recently has a new roundabout, only for cyclists…. only in NL
What you state in the video is correct, I think. But don't forget that the move in the Netherlands to a more science and safety based road design started in the '70ies .. Still it is not ideal. I mention that fact to indicate that it will take a very long time so see real improvement in road safety, not to complain. The achievments are clear and it's an ongoing process. Don't forget that every long journey starts with the first step.
As someone from Haarlem, I appreciate all the Haarlem B-roll footage 👍
I live in Haarlem;)
Yes, there is so much to the humble roundabout! Here in the UK there are still all sorts of design 'issues' such as direct (not tangential) entry lanes that have little central roundabout area so drivers often look ahead and just rush across as there is little to 'physically' slow them down. Another issue is with pedestrian crossings just on the outgoing lane of a roundabout where the driver is looking far ahead and accelerating! Or those that feed specifically busy roads so become clogged (against the Highway Code I believe) impeding all through flow. And of course the wonderful Traffic Circle where a roundabout has traffic lights added to it, and not always on all lanes! Yes design and some kind of future proofing needs careful thought!
Is it possible to get that CROW book but in english (or digitally on pdf so some kind of autotranslate can be done with it)? I am really intetested!
I have trouble with two-lane roundabouts. Getting into and out of the correct lane gives me too many cars to yield to. I've never driven in the UK, but they rely a lot on painted lane info rather than overhead signs. The lane info gets worn, and it's hidden by the car ahead until it might be almost too late to get in the proper lane. I know overhead signs are ugly, intrusive and expensive, but stupid drivers like me need them.
As a general rule, signal right a few moments before the preceding turn so you have some time to merge. Every single instructional video I've seen from North America gets this wrong.
This popped up on my recommendation and I kinda just had to click on it
Tip: This thumbnail is really catchy! You should do more stuff like it
Much of America was rather undeveloped at times when European cities were already built and ready for planning. During that time, the focus in America was on creating arterials to connect over vast distances. The problem started when development occurred along the arterials rather, due to a need of "quick access" by business owners (like Breezewood, PA). There was no impetus at the time for separate collectors. This occured in unincorporated areas before any municipal planning could take place. So we were stuck with arterials trying to do the job as a collector as well, creating a grid of stroads, and failing at both.
While realistically, it should be an immense advantage to build a city from scratch instead of having to deal with all kinds of monumental buildings that hinder your freedom in city planning.
"... at times when European cities were already built and ready for planning"
3 mistakes in this sentence. Firstly, most American cities existed before the car, used to be walkable and to have transit. Secondly, a city don't need to be big in order to be planned. On the contrary, the earlier a city start, the better it is. Thirdly, American cities started to be planned at the same time than European ones.
Actually, modern urban planning started in the 19th century in Europe, with Barcelona and Paris being great inspirations for some US city late 19th century. In 1900, the share of people living in urban area was nearly the same between North America and Western Europe (arond 40%), with some American cities, such as New York, being bigger than European ones. Yet older, European cities were not bigger. So, litteraly, US cities were in same position than European ones when car became more accessible.
For that reason, the US have no excuses for having bad city planning. They choose it. Actually, it's well documented that the petrol industry influence a lot American governments in favor of pro-car regulations: interstates, parking minimums, to dismantle streetcars, etc.
You should check Not Just Bikes videos on CZcams (if you are interested in the subject).
@@arjensmit6684 after realizing the mistakes of building every road as an expressway in a grid system, newer communities are popping up with better planning, zoning, and growth.
@@rouphile That is not what I was talking about. This is beyond modern urban planning and not just cars.
The major European cities were largely established in 10th-13th centuries. While there were urban areas in the 17th-18th century, many US had many cities in mid-America developed in 19th and 20th century, as the US was still expanding. While European cities already had forms of transport between cities for centuries and established country borders, America was developing and expanding within the past two. With the advent of rail, many US cities were developed as a result of them and not prior.
Much of the 20th was focused on connecting these US cities with the new highway systems. This also resulted in newer cities being established along the transcontinental system. Because of the hundreds of miles between these communities, car access was deemed essential. Hence why vehicular access was a staple in urban design. The mistake was all roads would be designed similar to transcontinental highways and not as separate local roads.
One reason I do not fully promote "Not Just Bikes" is that it would not fully apply to the America landscape due to different histories of development. That is not to say the Dutch cities has a great form of urban planning/design, nor is that to say car culture had no impact on American urban design standards. There is improvement necessary without a doubt. Due to America's very large and diverse terrain, and connection to the vast rural communities, such a band-aid would not fix the issues. But this diversity has also shown areas where urban planning and design has greatly transformed places to walkable communities, as America is anything but a monolith. Many US cities do show the mistakes of bad urban design standards.
@@rouphile thank you, that is a very clear explanation. US cities just bulldozer led their old towns to make room for multi lane roads. Its a choice. One that we in the Netherlands also started to make somewhere in the 1960's, but fortunately, there was a lot of protest against these plans, so not too many where actually executed.
00:15 Whenever I tell people that my interest is town planning, the response is the lack of response.🙃
I like our smart intersections. Even if the light for my direction is red by default, when there's no intersecting traffic, I can just calmly roll up towards the red light, and it'll jump to green. It'll go orange as soon as I pass, so that the lights for the bigger throughfare can default back to green.
How is this not used everywhere? I mean if you can make traffic lights on a timer, how much more work is it to install some sensors?
America already has them, and had them for a very long time.
But unlike the Netherlands, they are less efficient in the US due to them attempting to minimise costs wherever possible.
"Semi-actuated" signals with detection only on the side roads and in left-turn lanes, resting in green on the main road, are a common example. If there is barely any traffic on the main road, side road traffic will still have to wait for the light to change.
In the Netherlands on the other hand, all movements have detectors, allowing each movement to be given an appropriate amount of green. This also allows the traffic light to rest in all-red when there is nobody around, allowing the traffic light to immediately change as soon as a user is detected.
Also, the US tends to have 1 detector per lane, mostly at the stop line, both for requesting a green light and for extending a green light.
When the light is green, this means that when the last car passes the detector, the light will change a few seconds after that car has already left the intersection.
In the Netherlands, a movement usually has multiple detectors for different tasks, allowing each of them to be positioned at an optimal distance. There is always a "calling" detector, and an "extending" detector". There are often 2 calling detectors, the first being positioned before the extending sensor, and the second being positioned at the stop line like in the US.
The extending detector is positioned a few meters before the stop line, allowing the green light to change just a second before the last car crosses the stop line.
And the most important part, is that American signal controllers operate on an outdated "phase-based" structure. While a "phase-based" structure is more flexible than a "stage-based" structure (in which signals may only be green in designated parts of the cycle called "stages"), it's still less flexible. The "flexibility" generally only applies to left-turn phases, both of which can start and end at different times. The through phases generally must end at the same time, even if one of the through phases has no traffic. Also the all-red clearance period is fixed for every phase, often causing unnecessary delays.
Dutch signal controllers operate on a "group-based" structure, where each movement operates independently from other movements. A request for a green light can be serviced immediately as long as this group would not conflict with other groups currently green. The all-red clearance period can differ depending on the group starting and the group ending.
This allows different groups to be combined based on the users present, which is significantly more efficient than a phase-based structure.
That moment you spot your own neighbourhood in the b-roll😂😂😂
Keep seeing London Ontario in these videos makes me laugh 😂
Roundabout is good where speeds are moderate, where traffic from multiple direction is about equal AND for low to medium amount of traffic.
I prefer roundabouts almost every time.
It makes traffic much calmer. Simpy coast towards it, merge into traffic and gently start to accelerate on the outward turn.
No Formula 1 start when the light get's green so you can reach the speed limit quickly and get the next light on yellow.
No slamming the brakes after entering the intersection at yellow just to make the 90 degree turn afterwards.
And if you have to give right of way, you just loose a few seconds, not minutes.
Saves so much time, energy and reduces noise emissions.
I live in an area (outside the USA) where there are a lot of new roundabouts. The best use of these are the small size circles in residential areas where intersections between 2 low-traffic streets have become a lot safer and easier to move through, since the roundabouts replace stop signs. Stop signs should be outlawed since there is no reason to stop if there is no cross traffic, and really bad accidents occur when you legally cross an intersection hoping/praying the distracted (or dui) driver coming at you broadside will actually stop. Some roundabouts have replaced traffic lights, significantly improving throughput for higher-traffic streets, allowing smaller cross streets to enter and cross or turn left without issue. I would say that roundabouts (even as retrofits) should be the primary tool in the road designer toolbox, resorting to lights and overpasses only when really no other option works.
There are situations where stop signs are useful. In the Netherlands they are typically used when visibility at an intersection is so limited (in some cases intentionally so) that coming to a full stop is necessary. However, this only works because they are used so sparsely that when you do see one, you know it is there for a damn good reason.
roundabouts are pretty good in quiet residential areas as a traffic calming tool as it forces all cars to slow down as they approach the intersection.
Can be, but it is also harder to fit them there, and if people are already driving at low speed, can be unnecessary. But sure they make decent unstressfull hazards.
I think it’s also important to consider social context as well. There’s a reason why France has so MANY roundabouts and mostly gigantic (50m - 100m diameter in builtup areas and 150m - 250m in rural areas is standard) multilanes ones. In France running red lights is almost like a national sport and therefore, even multilanes fast moving roundabouts r still safer than a traffic light intersection. It’s to the point where I feel safer on rural roundabouts with country roads intersecting with traffic moving at an avg of 85-100 km/h than a traffic light intersection! So they build them absolutely everywhere.
To be fair, I feel like French drivers have bettered themselves a lot in the last two decades. I'm from Germany and French drivers had always have the stereotype of being bad and dangerous drivers (just like Italian, Belgian, Eastern European,... the Germans definitely have a superiority complex when it comes to driving skill).
It is still a notable difference when you drive in France versus in Germany (passing on the right, cutting people of, not yielding) but it is a lot less than back in the day, where it seemed that things like speed limits, stop signs, red lights and line markings were all just rules that were meant to be broken in France. But something changed, probably connected to the quite high fines for traffic violations.
that's just a matter of upping her price for a fine. Like they are really lowin france, and should be based on your salary, like 10-20% of your nett income should be the fine for running a red light.
@@pulli23 It still won’t change the fact that roundabouts are inherently safer than traffic lights no matter how high the fines r. High fines r just an excuse not to fix bad or dangerous engineering.
The infinity roundabout at the 1:01 mark looked interesting. Pause the vid and looked at it closer, looks like the travel lanes would work fantastic and no stop lights.
It is also important for the placement of a roundabout to know about traffic patterns. If there is high traffic frequency taking the last exits it will cause the entire roundabout to be jammed. Also roundabouts remove almost all of your speed so some roads are better left with a 'green wave' of smart lights than with a roundabout.
Traffic jams on a roundabout can get far worse than a traffic light. Some road users cause it to jam up too much, in the Netherlands we also have roundabouts with traffic lights, allowing for massive throughput and controllability of the main arteries.
very good point about road priority and categories - that's why some 70% of European streets don't need bike lanes and another 20% don't need traffic lights (or roundabouts): only the last 10% are for through-traffic.
well thanks for showing my birthplace in the first few seconds , 2nd is den bosch 0:13 ! 🙂 ......... btw roundabouts are usefull , howmany times in the past i almost got runover by crossing a street ........ where it fails is when drivers lack the money for "blinker"fluid !
I would say that in my country councils will often use a roundabout as a traffic calming in a street - street intersection
There are a lot of small roundabouts in France, notably, where vehicles can go up the center of the roundabout slightly higher. These are good solutions for streets intersection. Moreover, for Public Transportation, roundabouts allow buses to turn around at the end of a line instead of passing through small streets do to so, or worse to make inefficient and confusing for customers, big one way loops !
You know you’re in too deep when you start recognising bridges and roundabouts from BicycleDutch’s CZcams channel 😅
Funny to recognise lots of scenes shot in the Amersfoort/Leusden area and around Amsterdam west/haarlem!
I appreciate the Haarlem content
As a Dutch, I like the turbo roundabouts the most. Traffic keeps moving, only at rush hours a little less, but normally, traffic keeps driving.
And all the signals put onthe road, on poles, the smart traffic lights: we do not think about it, because it's the way it 'is'. Love this video, it explains the need of changes around the world, not ionly the US or Canada.
America has them.
America has both.
Hey, do you live in Vijfhuizen? I knew all these places in the video, because I have been living here for the last 7 years (Bolwerk in Vijfhuizen).
Haarlem
I recognized a few locations from fake London. The speed of travel in the city is mainly based on your luck with getting green lights. We also have lots of construction and a few impractical railroads.