TOP-SECRET LS TEST-FACTORY LS3 WITH ADAPTERS
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- čas přidán 25. 08. 2024
- MULTI-TEST-FULL DYNO RESULTS-LS3/ADAPTERS ON CATH HEADS, BATTLE OF THE TRUCK INTAKES-GM TRUCK VS DORMAN TRK VS TBSS-DOES THE DORMAN COPY WORK? CATH-PORT VS REC-PORT CAMS-IS THERE A DIFFERENCE? CHECK OUT ALL THESE TESTS ON THE 6.0L LS WITH 799 HEADS, COMP CAM AND LONG-TUBE HEADERS. .
You CAN NOT find better FREE information pertaining to tuning on the internet, Thank you for all your “hard” work Richard
I've been watchin' your vids for a while now and I gotta say, I love this stuff man, keep it coming!!! You do the best tests, none of us working folks can afford to test all this. It is such a blessing to have someone like you doing all this testing work. We can plan on using what will be best for our builds based on what you have already tested. Thanks again.
thnx
I laughed when Richard struggled not to giggle when he was explaining what he all compared lol. Your ridiculous bro 😂
Your a beast Richard!! I'm convinced your part robot part Ls motor!! love the content. Thank so much for doing all these test for the average joe.
Ahmad
That was shocking about the adapters on the LS3 intake. Thank you again for the great info!!!!
Well, I can say I always learn something watching these videos.
what you do is great Richard, youve saved so many guys so much money on stuff people tell them works, when it really doesnt..thanks man!
Richard Holdener.
Man! You are by far the most professional, knowledgeable, and thorough expert on CZcams. You should have 10, 20, 30... Times more subscribers and I think it's only a matter of time. THANK YOU for what you do!!!!
Some of the low-end torque and horsepower with the LS3 manifold and adapters probably came from adding the runner length. This is probably also why it lost power on the top end. Just speculation but that was a very interesting test! Thanks Richard
Ooh good thought. I think that sounds like a logical deduction.
I think you need to port the Dorman truck intake, has some big steps at the bottom of the port.
I admire your obsession! I'm saving for my g35 ls swap and I plan to completely build one of your many builds. I want 800hp to the wheel and you good sir will get me there!!!
why do you want 800?
I'm glad someone finally showed the power loss of the dorman intake! When I bought my ls6 intake I almost bought the dorman version til I read on some forums how they actually pinch off power!
Richard,
You are a
Legend in the LS world..I daily drive my 04 Silverado and use it for ranch work, IE pull my tractor with a gooseneck trailer. I’m actually thinking of going with the square port intake and everything else including adaptors to make it run on my cathedral port heads. I really like the end power increase.
DO NOT RUN A REC-PORT INTAKE WITH ADAPTERS-IT IS A TERRIBLE IDEA
when is a towing cam test coming out?
Did the Dorman truck intake still have those crazy “ramps” in the intake runners?
When do you sleep??? I always say you're the gift that keeps giving. Thanks for doing what you do
The "Holdener-Sloppy" tax.
Yes sir. Last week the Dorman 615-901 was around $915. Right now it's down to $727. They're playing "us" the market right now. I swear about a month ago when I was about to buy one it was around $465. I thought that was too much for a stock factory replacement manifold so i passed on it. They can still be had on the used market for around $275-350. Some have rails and injectors too. If people start buying these manifold new for that high of a price then the bar will be set. Don't buy into it guys.
Thanks again Richard. The information here is stuff guys like me cant get anywhere else. Between you and Matt at sloppy mechanics I was able to find the information to build the engine in my truck. Now it's time for a set of twins built off the factory manifolds. The gen4 bottom end is gonna get the test.
Richard much respect from Australia keep it up.
One request!! Ozzy edition! Ls1 5.7 alloy! Boosted with all nos, turbo vs charger ect applications.
Many thanks.
+1. Ive always wondered how the LS1 with its crap heads and intake compares with a Gen IV 5.3. Im guessing theyd be very similar in power output
@@postmortemspasm you may want to watch more of these videos. All of this has been done and then some. This man is obsessed!
Do you people not understand that **all** metals used in engines, are "alloy"?
The stock LS1 makes more than stock 5.3L
@ Michael Angelo, I’m talking about 5.7 alloy block compared to 5.3 iron blocks ya peanut. Well done genius !
You're killing it
Really glad I went with the tbss intake instead of porting the dorman truck intake to save some money.
thank you sir richard for all those insights .. a fascinating job .. I hope you will do ( or properly did) the reverse of the test = which is = the adaptors for rectangular heads to cathedral intakes .. this adaptor is very important for those who want to do an ls3 swap in 3rd gen and want to keep factory top end or aftermarket cathedral end ..
I have tested adapters both ways-neither works well
@@richardholdener1727 thanks sir ..
Thank you so much for this information . I had suggested it a while back.
The adapter plate results makes sense. The adapter plate kind of choke the air on NA application. But boosted, gets over that choke spot!
That's a false conception. An N/A engine already has close to 15# of pressure.
If the blower manifold fit the ports properly, it would **also** perform better.
Lots of real good info here.
Honestly, I almost don’t even wanna buy a different intake than the truck now unless it’s a TBSS or LS2 but only for up to 20hp? I just like the LS2 because it’s a cleaner looking intake.
Learn something new everyday.
Richard is literally burning the midnight oil tonight!
LONG DAY SPENT WITH FAMILY & CATCHING RATTLESNAKES
@@richardholdener1727 mmmmm... Rattlesnake pasta!!🤤
I've heard that if you can extract the oil from those snakes and fill the crankcase it adds quite a bit of power.😉
It looked like those adapters extended the runner length which would explain the trade off in low end and top end power.
Honestly that dyno graph wasn't too bad. I mean it was making more power and torque up to ~5250rpm. In a truck application where you would spend most of your time below that, it would make sense if you have the LS3 manifold laying around to use it.
its not runner length change-it wasn't that big of a change
Sir, your content has got me hooked.
I would love to see you build a quick revving circle track/ road race LS engine. Ive seen high RPM builds but not any built to rev as quick as possible with off the shelf parts. Similar to a SB2 just LS based.
Another great test, so much information stuffed into one 12 minute video. If you ever get the chance... would love to see Rec port vs Oval port big block Chevy test. For years the old timers try to say a Rec port intake on Oval port heads was the hot set up. With so many intakes available for each - I never saw the point. But, would be cool to see the "myth busted."
I did that
@@richardholdener1727 - is there a video? Or an article I can search online?
"What things should we test?" Richard:"all the things."
In terms of the LS3 manifold numbers it's interesting and could be interpreted as there being meat on the bone for the LSA blower intake if it had ports more closely aligned e.g. welded or epoxied. Then again with boost you'd probably never notice anyways unless going all out.
Honestly it's probably because the transition is abrupt due to the 1/2 inch height of the adapter. I bet a 1 inch plate would do far better. smoother transition.
Richard,
Can we see an LS3 test with a stock manifold vs the ported oem manifold? And maybe throw in the stock TB vs the 102mm tb as well? That would be awesome.
BTW keep up the great work
- Armin
I'd like to see the budget factory lsa build, 6.0, l92 heads, ls9 cam, and lsa blower
I’d love to see a Stage 2 NA comparison between the different brands like TSP,BTR,Comp cams,Lunati and summit racing. Which cam makes the most power , which cam allows 2500 rpm and under stall speed . Which cam has Best street drivability.
Cheers
Nobody dyno below 2500 its useless.
I'd like to see some 4.8 high compression NA builds. I don't remember if you've done that already or not. I'd imagine that they're capable of making a powerful high revving package.
thanks for the class "Professor"
Like to see some more on the LT-1, whenever it's convenient.
I have four of them just sitting on the shelf, and I'm very strongly considering dropping one of them into my 85 MC , and doing a rear mount compound/sequential turbo setup on it.
I have a stock 87 GN Garrett, and a stock 2001 Powerstroke Gtp-38.
So far, no one has said that they won't work in this application, although some have said that I should just buy a couple of eBay Gt-35s, and forget about the sequential turbo "nonsense"...
Is it an LT1 like a new production gm lt1 that's direct injected? Or is it the fifty year old 350 lt1?
You can max out the gtp on either but there is no point in using it. About the only guys that used it were stock 5.0l guys, they really aren't all that great of a turbo and to compound with that as the big one is pointless. You would only need about 10-12psi on the gen1 lt1 to max out the compressor and like 2psi on the gen5 lt1. It is way too small of a turbo to use on a v8 and isn't worth your time unless it's free. Those turbos are not sized right to compound either, close but there isn't the bias in size. It would maybe work to compound something like a 4bt cummins that only makes 100hp factory.
Why do you want to compound turbo a gas engine anyway?
I would love to see a tbss intake ported and see what the difference would be
Great video
Thank you.
Thank you Sir!!! Learned a lot from your vids.
Not really worth doing for the gains but honestly for a daily driver that adapted ls3 intake having more torque below 5300 still makes it better.
Exactly what I was thinking.
What’s great is that companies are knocking off the Dorman knock offs! So you can still find a great intake that requires minimal finishing work for less than $100!
Factory intake manifolds are cheap, common, & plentiful at junk yards.
It would be nice to see a dyno with the LS4 intake, too. That is a cheap option for cathedral port setups with hood clearance problems. Yeah I know it doesn't look like the best, but you gotta make due with what you can.
someone sent me one-I'll test it
@@richardholdener1727 You da man! Seriously though, I've learned so much from your videos, thank you.
Surprising result's,
All testing was used with factory O.E.M & Holley EFI..NO carburetors
dorman LS2 intake is more $ than the factory ... THANKS Richard.... lol
Dorman LS2 intake, $922 on summit for a chunk of plastic. Some of the FAST LSXR manifolds are cheaper than that.
Shame about the adapter plates. Would be cool if they were direct port nitrous injector plates. would be very sneaky.
Great video like you said dorman intakes are so expensive I was going to buy one but they're $500 and up when they were 150 to 200 I was going to buy the LS3 and the plates and still come out cheaper than buying cathedral Port dorman but not sure any more
don't run the ls3 with adapters
So this applies to the 6.0, what about the 4.8/5.3 guys? 🤷🏽♂️
Would be neat to see a similar test of the intake plenum keg, but for intake runner length. Make a Holley hi rise have like 4 ft runners and see how it performs.
I've done runner length tests
Yeah I knew the adapter set up wasn’t going to work without pressure generated by the blower.
469 cam is now the cam I will buy no matter what ls powered car I get
I think the numbers with the adapters make a lot of sense... you're changing the runner lengths, longer runners = more low-end.
its not runner length
Well worth staying up late! It's 2 am
317 here lol
430 in the afternoon here
The adapter/ls3 combo would work well in a truck application or a heavy vehicle with high gears and a tight converter.
At that point might as well run tbss intake same mid range torque and more up top , and it's cheap as chips .
@@dilsher12 not if you leave the stock cam in it. You don't want a engine turning 6500rpm in something like i said......unless it's some mud racer.
@@HioSSilver1999 the difference between converter stall and where the tbss passes the ls3 intake is like 900rpm. Even a stock truck will flash the converter to 2400rpm. This thing has a pretty chunky cam in it and that rpm might drop with a factory camshaft. Like the only spot that ls3 adapter combo does better than a tbss is between 2400 and 3000.
If you make the argument that it will lug lower, your talking less than 5% torque and the reason it doesn't matter on automatics is they downshift.
The gains seen from the ls3 also will not translate directly to a stock cammed engine that requires less airflow.
Your throwing more parts that don't work because of a tiny change. Instead of ls3 adapers and intake you would be better off getting a btr torque cam that makes more torque at every rpm from 1500 to 6000 and use the stock intake.
@@timothybayliss6680 i made the comment because my 6.0 2500hd basically runs and pulls below 5k rpm. Never hardly ever goes over that pulling that 2400-3000 rpm area is where it spends most of it's time.......hence why that ls3 intake with adapters would work well in that situation.
As far as I'm concerned ls engines should virtually never be cammed on a stock 78mm tb intake. They pull pretty hard on the map sensor as it is. Most people never realize the acceleration these engines offer......and typically a cam makes them worse. It's not like we're tuning with a holley efi set up.
Nice test Richard! I've been wondering for a year on ls3 heads on a 6.0 block with adaptors with cathedral intake. My ported fast 92 intake would be a good test!
no reason to run ls3 heads with cath intake and adapters-I did that test too-ls3 intake is way batter
Love watching your videos just hoping to see the 4.7L Dodge stuff
Lsthree intake with adapter plates also saw horse power loss up top because technically with using the adapters you’re increasing runner length by 3/8 of an inch if not more than that
3/8ths of an inch would not make a big enough difference to see.
its not runner length
Richard Holdener let me pick your brain for a sec. I’m sure you saw my comment asking if you were going to try testing a ported variant of this intake. I’m not here to pester you about that. My question is in regards to runner “leakage”. Wouldn’t there be power loss if the 3 pieces of this intake weren’t properly sealed? As they are, they aren’t siliconed together or anything so the intake runner leaks and reduces the effectiveness of pulse waves as there is pressure loss due to leakage I have a feeling the reason this intake is such a poor performer has some to do with runner leakage, some to do with porting, and a little bit because of the Tb hole size. I’m curious as to what you think.
That’s great content Richard... I always wondered if I can install a LS1 LS2 cathedral port designated cam into a LS3 rectangular port setup. And what effect the different combinations make on the power curve.
it works the same
Thank you RH wanted to know this... save me $$$$
This was without any sort of porting on the dorman, correct? Nice work Richard 👍
I have a 07 avalanche apart and the intake looked like the tbss intake , looking at rockauto they were the same part number and affordable, wonder if dorman's tbss performs as well as the GM ?
it does
@@richardholdener1727 thank you Richard
Hi Ritchard!
Do you have somthing about 8,1 (496) GM Vortec engine?
No one does anything with those besides using them for boat anchors. There is next to zero aftermarket support for them because they never performed, bad bore to stroke ratio, and a PCV system that sucked the oil pan dry. They also weighed almost 770lbs so that's a bunch of weight to make up for. None of the older 454 style heads will fit so your only option is porting the heavy stockers or big money custom cnc aluminum heads. Any way you look at it you'r spending double the money, for double the weight, just to say you have an 8.1 or bigger, and getting destroyed by LSX engines. If they were any good to begin with they'd be all over the place, the shear size of them is one of the biggest downfalls, they basically were just an engine for truck buyers who didn't want a diesel and needed bigger than the 6.0 could tow.
So safe to assume cleaned up/ported dorman truck outperforms stock truck. Gotcha.
Thank you for your hard work. Question Richard, TBSS and the later model truck intakes that look the same as TBSS. Are they the same? We’re they both still cathedral design?
I've got a stock LH6 (aluminum 5.3 from an '05 Buick Rainier) it has the latter style truck intake that looks like the TBSS and 799 heads (cathedral). Im pretty sure they are the same intake as the TBSS.
That's what I'm wondering as well 🤔 The 6.0-6.2 are rec port, but the 5.3's are cathedral and look to be the same as the tbss. They are much cheaper though, so idk?
Should test out throttle body spacer and ls3 intake manifold spacers
Best channel on CZcams. But I have a question. Is that rec port and cathedral port cam a turbo cam?!🤭 Sorry I just had to! Great stuff , soaking it up.
Please test a ported dorman 615-183 intake!
Richard sir I have another " other guys" test you could do . You could do a dyno comparison between the 300-6 ford vs the Chev 292-6 naturally aspirated then add a turbo to them critters . The engines would be cheap to buy they'd hook to the dyno easy ( both cranks are drilled for a pilot bearing ) nothing weird for the bell housing pattern unlike the 225 slant 6 . The only real shit part would be figuring out headers ( or use the factory exhaust ) to build the turbo plumbing . There's guys who drag race the strait 6 still these days . It would be a different show to do lol 🐿🐿
getting a big Ford
I would be curious the difference in numbers doing this same test with a turbo setup.
Great work Richard, as usual. Can you run the LS7 intake on the 6.0 with adapters, or is it too big, or wont interface, or????
no need to adapt that
The ls7 has the ports higher in the head so the intake is wider as measured at the centre of the ports. Because It's wider it doesn't like up with the ports at all. It's also kinda pointless. Factory ls2, ls3, lq4, ly6 intakes work pretty good. Used they are quite affordable. It might make for an interesting test but I am really doubtful that there is anything to be gained from running such a mismatched combo.
You can however run a rec port intake on ls7 heads with an adapter.
I would bet the adapter makes the same effect as making the runners a bit longer, thats why the torque shifts a bit to the low end
its not runner length-its more than that
Richard *Grabs Popcorn*
I guess you kinda answered that!
Thanks Richard! Is that a Jeep I see in the background? That’s where our LS’s end up usually.
My Father in Law's
You should do a test on the LSA on various motors while using the head adaptors
LSA changes the same with and without adapters
Got any adapters to try a LS3 vs TBSS on square port heads?
yes I did that-not good
So dorman ls2 intake is better than the factory ls6 intake? That's very interesting
Hey Richard! i wonder what the difference between a l92/l76 intake with adapters and a regular tbss intake. I wondered if the adapters hurt the hp numbers!
they do-not a good choice
Sadly the Dorman LS2 is now anywhere from $600-$930.
Great info as always..... I got a test for you Rich... All old school 350s.. Oldsmobile, Chevy, Pontiac, Buick.. with whatever combination you wanna run of course and then we could see who the king of the 350s really is 💪🏽💪🏽
Richard can you do a test of the three Chevrolet aftermarket cams, Hot cam, ASA cam, Showroom Stock cam......I think it would be interesting.
He has done a "factory" o.e.m. cam only testing video.
If we had big blocks back in the day 400 cubic inch Pontiac big block Vs a Chevy 400 small block , what would be a comparison today , are there still “ rat “ & “ mouse motors “ ? If so Which ones and what makes em so .....
Late model GM LS & Vortec & LT & LSX engine blocks all physically same size. Aftermarket LS style blocks are physically same size too.
Most engine builders / gearheads
call 400 CID & larger big blocks not
with LS tho.
Did you have to do a lot of changes to the tune???? If so what changes did you make and should that be part of the video love your show
we optimized AF and Timing for each combo-very easy on the dyno
@@richardholdener1727 thanks I think I'm ready to pull the trigger to get one
Wouldn't the adapters effectively increase the length of the manifold runner and cause that teeter-totter effect on the power curve @6:00? Would a LS3 intake, with adapter, mounted to small bore LS7 heads (such as PRC LS7X 265cc) prevent the shift to the right of the power curve when using both LS7 intake and LS7 heads?
adapters don't change runner length much
@richard holdener what do you think about ls3 intake with the adapters on a cathedral port head in a turbo application
bad choice
fuck that, we know the Boss is the boss. Nobody beats a 460 either.
Is the difference in power between the low end and the high end by the LS3 compared to the LS2 because the adapters make the runners longer on the LS3 giving it more power in the low end end and loss of power in the high end? Like what you would expect on a SBC when comparing a long runner intake to a short runner intake. It works for a blower because that's a forced induction not a natural draw.
there wasn't enough change in runner length
Richard which of you video's show how to make an already truck engine l83c 5.3l ecotec greater than its already stock components? If not...then thats what id like to see as a video. Thanks.
there is an L83 video up-with nitrous
@@richardholdener1727 Hello sir, It is an honor to speak with you. I was just wondering how all 3 methods would work and possibly the limitations of these high pack left on the table engines from GM. It certainly would be of an interest to myself before i start this build. Just really curious as to which new driveshaft company i will have to choose from. Lol But the mods im talking is the clay smith cam you did a small segment on with fordge piston heads .0030 ring gap, dry nitrous with methanol injection, 7.5psi to 9 psi peek boost.
Do you have anything on gen 3 vs gen 4 LS coil packs? I’m not so much looking for a “power gain” but ages ago (mid 2000s) there was a test done w the heat sink over the stock LS1/6 packs. Some engines were dying and we noticed that it’s usually cyl 7. What we were suspecting was the coil packs miss fire faster than the pcm can pick up on and 💥 boom. The heat sink coil packs seemed to fix this. BUT we were also blocking the rear steam vents back then, even on high hopes applications. Now we know that causes hot spots which can lead to detonation or predestination in the back two cycles. Not sure if you have any videos on this but I’m curious. I’m mainly looking for peace of mind w my stock LS6 coils vs heat sink LM5s.
I HAVE NOT DONE A COIL TEST
Is that the Dorman 615-183x also known as the super auto???
Looking at putting the Holley 300-132 intake on my 2000 5.3 with cathedral 862 heads. Holley says this rectangle port intake is designed to be used on the cathedral port heads. If that is true, why do I see these adapter plates for rectangle port intakes to cathedral port heads all over the internet. What am I missing?
no rec-port intake is designed to be used on cath heads
@@richardholdener1727 Thanks Richard for the response. I spoke with a Holley tech and they said the 300-132 intake was designed to work on the cathedral port heads. If you say that is not the case, do you have a recommendation on a single plane intake that is designed for the 3000-6500 or 7000 rpm range for cathedral port heads? I am running a mechanical secondary Holley 750 and will add a BW S475 next year. If you don't have a recommendation on an intake for me, should I purchase the "adapter plates" or what should I do? Thanks in advance. Love your channel! Tons of great info!
What is it about the tbss manifold that makes it good? Where is the magic? Why does the Dorman Ls perform the same as the tbss manifold but have such a different outside profile?
runner length
What do you think the difference would be swapping heads and intake?
What about testing the 07-09 Impala SS rec port intake on cathedral heads?
The jeep better be LS swapped lol
I have a 6.0 with 706 heads and a Truck Norris cam; looking to make the most torque possible between 2,000 and 4,000 for towing and off roading in the mountains. I’m not sure which intake to go with- TBSS, or rec port truck intake with adapters? I think both tests were run here but I don’t see them compared to each other. What’s your opinion?
run cath port intake-not rec port with adapters
@@richardholdener1727 gotta figure out a solution for the differences in fuel rails and sensor placement, but will do. Thank you as always!
Id like to see the difference between a TBSS and a Holley hiram.
look at the 6.0L intake test video-its up
@@richardholdener1727 sweet
Those adapters look.like a nightmare for airflow. They have an angled inner structure to raise the intake vertically strait up. This is probably worse than running no adapters. I don't know if they are the same width, face angle and port location, but if they are the adapters even with a nice taper will kill airflow. This is especially true with cathedral port intake on rec port heads. The dead spots don't interact with flow anywhere as much as the angled surfaces as the adapters. Even putting a rec port intake on cathedral port heads might not be as bad without the adapters. The deflection of the air flow is a tragedy. When peanut port big blocks were a thing, some guys would run typical oval port intake with good results in spite of the port mismatch. There are cases when a typical oval port intake outperformed all peanut port intakes. I look at those adapters and I die a little on the inside.
Edit...doing the smallest amount of research possible it looks like the direct bolt on route is possible but the orings on the ports no longer overlay the ports. Some guys have made a giant mess with silicone to make it work. If you really think That a port misaligned is the worst thing, look how much bigger an ls6 intake port is compared to a 706 head port.
Good comment. My friends used to run square port BBC intakes with oval port heads on their drag cars.
It defies conventional logic, but they were winning races. And you can't argue with success.