They're clearly desperate for money. I understand that the platform is unsustainable from a financial standpoint, and they're probably losing massive amounts of money constantly. But they need to work with the community, not against them. Streamers are basically contractors with a huge voice, and Amazon think they can screw them over like they do with their other contractors, where they face few consequences for their actions. It's impossible to get away with screwing over streamers when they can easily go to another platform and drag twitch's image through the mud. And reputation is extremely important to get new creators.
Corporations will NEVER get the message until you hurt their bottom line. We need a domino effect of creators going to other platforms, they need real consequences.
I'm just dying to see how they think they can enforce a $25 fee to people that are refusing to sign a contract. "Where did I sign saying I would agree to pay you $25? Oh so it's in the contract I am refusing to sign?". Yeah... that ain't gonna fly in any country I know of.
Taking half your Sub money is nothing when you realise the gaming sponsored incentives that goes through the platform itself usually involves them taking up to 80% of the cut from the marketing agencies and telling the streamer they get 100 dollars... Also remember when they started donation buttons where they take 30% because they hated people getting paypal donations that they couldn't get their hands on XD
at the end of the day they need to make money somehow. i think most of their recent decisions were all terrible. but they were based on the need to make money somehow. twitch is expensive to run. them trying to get a cut from donations and such is 100% fine imo. Sabotaging sponsorships like they are trying rn ofc isnt what im defending here
I streamed all summer last year and made it to a few hundred followers. I decided to do a pool stream to celebrate someone's birthday as twitch had recently made a pools category and it just sounded fun. I was extremely careful to pick out an appropriate swimsuit (no cleavage or anything) and be modest the whole stream. I made sure to put it in the correct category and was even telling people to please not ask me to turn around because I am trying to be modest and not show my butt. We were just chatting and having a good time when my stream suddenly stopped. I check my email and had received one email that I was PERMANENTLY banned for attire. I was baffled and immediately emailed back asking if they could explain what about it was wrong, never got a response. I was completely beside myself for months. I cried so many times wondering why and how I would've never done it had I known I could be permanently banned. I told close friends and in the coming months they would send me links to other girl's streams where they were wearing thongs doing squats for donations or painting their boobs. Finally, a woman had nude sex on stream and only got a 7 day ban. I cried so, so hard. I will never understand why, but I promised myself I would never stream on Twitch again.
@@samantharedacted9226 im sorry for that, it seems all companies do this as a couple months ago ive had my epic games account (worth a couple thousands), suddenly banned with no explanation while i wasn't even actively using it, they never actually explained the reason behind it. I hope you find success on other platforms that are more welcoming and free of bs, best of luck!
It honestly feels like Twitch needs to be put on a watchlist for how badly it is trying to off itself. This is absolutely crazy. Greed will ruin every company. That's just how the world works. And a company like amazon will always be greedy.
@@Usicky12 Please do tell me how this is possibly "woke" and not a symptom of capitalistic greed, or is that your only ever buzzword response when anyone criticizes a capitalist company for doing capitalist things?
All I want at this point is to see netflix and twitch to go bankrupt. Its a sad thought but nothing would make me happier than to see them start panicking in fear of going bankrupt wondering "How could this have happened?"
A $25 cancellation fee if you reject the new Twitch Partner contract is absolutely disgusting. They are literally stooping to the low, anti-consumer strategies of goddamn cable companies.
@@lifedeather But don't you see how implementing such a fee even at $25 could lead to it inflating to do exactly that in the future? Like how MTXs in games went from little things like cosmetics to intentionally locking-out features previously included.
Creators literally make millions of twitch using their platform for free and people complain about $25. THATS crazy. You people are lost in the sauce hanging on ever word these creators say. Twitch is literally running at a loss and everytime they try to do something to change that they get threatened by the very people that they provided opportunity too. I wish they went through with all these changes and just said middle finger to these so called creators. Just to humble them.
TLDR: They backpedaled on the stealing sponsorship money publicly - but haven't updated the policies and snuck in new rules that punish streaming on multiple platforms, an added a fee for leaving partner contracts. Twitch is on its way out.
I bet the person responsible for Twitch’s public documentation went on PTO immediately after the previous announcement, and now some JIRA ticket is stuck Pending that’ll publish the article. 😂
Wubby had a great take last night. They do this crazy announcement and when everyone freaks out about it, they walk it back. After everyone sayd thank you twitch for not taking away sponsors, twitch will slowly implement these policies again. Twitch should not be thanked for trying to be greedy. Twitch should be in your crosshairs. If they even think about putting in policies that hurt the streamer you walk.
They are clearly scared they are going to lose their users, and just like a person who's scared of losing their significant other to someone else, they are making REALLY dumb choices trying to keep them around but in reality pushes them away.
Wouldn't they have to have that written down in the previous contract? Else anyone could just decide to ask for money for anything that they don't like their contract partner doing
@@animaier yup, its literally illegal for them to do this, if the person hasnt read and agreed to these tos. since this is a fee for literally not agreeing/reading the new tos it cant even legally be enforced. I think whoever wrote that policy is literally braindead
@@animaier afaik all they have to do is show you a small notification that terms and conditions are changing, you never read it, and it's all good and also your fault
@@xerzy even with the notification i don't think they can change everything they want surely there are some limits. What if they put a termination fee of $10k ? It doesn't make sense
at least youtube is better tho, at least when people actually complained to susan she actually did something unlike twitch even tho i hated her decisions on youtube
I'm in my early 30s now and I've seen so many small media companies that were loved go corporate and be completely destroyed in a few years. Once the ball starts rolling there is no stopping it. No matter what twitch says, they will forever pursue their goal of being nothing more than a life sucking money machine until there is nothing left. I have never seen it end in any other way.
Twitch mismanagement in a nutshell: We want more money, but instead of exploring ways to generate new revenue on the platform we’re just going to take larger portions of existing money from the quasi-employees that allow us to exist in the first place.
Which is, unironically, a backwards-ass way of making money since even the bigger streamers are lucky to see a third of what they're given. If it doesn't keep them afloat, what do you think these streamers will do?
Bro the small photo-canvas shop I used to work in used to be similar to this. The owner never changed a thing for years and sales gradually got worse and worse. Then the owner would come in and have meetings with us to find out why sales were low and blame it on us. Even one time inciting we might have been stealing stock and thats why sales were so low lol. I left not long after that bombshell
Brand new ideas? More forms of media entertainment? Better environments for streamers and consumers? What are you talking about we need to control are basically free money makers to a point they feel drained and annoyed
I love how everytime Twitch does some sneaky scheming, Charlie pulls out his spot light, points it into the abyss and yells "hey everybody, you seeing this horseshit?". Thanks for keeping people updated, Charles.
@@Farce13 while in the same video, he point out they did not change anything at all, just said they would and then didnt, did you actually listen to him. But more what I meant is that he gave out before, still streamed on twitch, gives out now, still streams of twitch, and in both cases the place still got worse. Literally doing less than nothing.
It’s still astounding how they possibly thought that was a good idea, and honestly I’m amazed that they’re even still surviving as a platform at this point
I don't get how they've deluded themselves into thinking that trying to squeeze more money out of their users is going to do anything other than _lose them users._ It's the exact same thing Netflix did - and it _never_ goes well.
My best guess is they're gonna add it to the "we don't like you but we need an excuse to ban you" tool kit. They're probably gonna crack down on potential ads for kick & rumble if they haven't already & again if a streamer happens to make comments about joining one of those platforms they're likely gonna get slapped with this new rule & try to say "well they were advertising a rival business"
In psychology, this is called a "door-in-the-face" strategy. If you ask someone to, say, donate $100 to your cause and they say WHAT THE HELL NO ARE YOU CRAZY? Then you say, "Okay, well I'm sorry, can I ask for maybe $10 then?" they're far more likely to agree because it seems like you have given way to your original ask, even though you really just wanted $10 in the first place. This is the opposite of the "foot-in-the-door" strategy, which is like when a political party asks you if they can put a little 8"x10" sign in your yard, and you're like "okay I guess that's small and not intrusive." Then they come back a month later and ask to put a 3ftx4ft sign up and you're like "Well I already let them put up a small one, so what's the difference?" When originally you'd never let them put a big sign in your yard. (BTW these are the actual means by which these phenomena were studied. Asking for donations and putting signs in yards.)
I dont know why people still use Twitch. As soon as they banned words like "Simp" everyone should just have left the platform IMO. When companies try to censor what you say, then its time to leave.
@@vipr1142 So you'd want your Twitter feed to contain snuff tapes & illegal porn? Cause that's what you're saying. Companies can, and should, censor. An absolutist ideology is really flawed here
Thee best thing thing to come out of this is Twitch saying they'll take a 25$ fee if you terminate your affiliate agreement with them, only for Kick to jump in and claim they're willing to pay the 25$ to anyone who breaks their contract with Twitch and moves to Kick. Peak management.
Never interrupt your enemy while he's making a mistake. Kick execs must be loving this, such a simple move will likely give them a big boost to their numbers for what is essentially a pittance
It's crazy to think that all Mixer had to do was ride out the dry season and they would have had the entire Twitch community running into their arms with how hell bent Twitch is on grinding their userbase into paste.
The issue is that people would have probably have just gone to youtube anyways. CZcams is lacking behind in the livestream format. But if you're changing platforms might as well go to the platform that is probably where your VODs are being posted already and your audience will already be on
As a person who works in the corporate world, I can see a lot of these decisions being pushed down to try to appease the board members. A lot of those people don’t know much about the twitch community and they’re only looking at spreadsheets to make decisions.
I’m glad you keep up with this stuff because I definitely wouldn’t be able to keep up, I been trying to develop new things for streams and I haven’t activated any of my affiliate things yet because twitch aren’t fully trustworthy yet and I’m going to stay un-affiliated until they hopefully get better because I really don’t want to restart on a different platform. Thanks Charlie for keeping us streamers up to date for the possible worst
Twitch continues to baffle me, this is like a child at the doctor’s office being dragged away kicking and screaming when all he needs to be okay is a bandaid
The thing is they don't have a monopoly that's why they are doing so many dumb things, twitch is dying and they are just digging their own grave faster.
@@GuyWithAnAmazingHat Definitely not why they are doing this, they are doing this out of pure idiocy. They really did have an almost complete monopoly up until 2020/2021. They are just complete fucking idiots, the current leaders/directors are sitting on too much power and influence without actually being tapped in with anything: neither the culture nor market of their own product.
@@GuyWithAnAmazingHat It's almost one, their only competition is CZcams. Literally all they had to do was be less terrible than that and instead they're just handing CZcams another monopoly on a platter. The line between greed and stupidity is nearly non-existent here, the fall is unreal.
One of the other avenues that is directly impacted by disallowing simulcasting is, again, the esports scene. I personally prefer watching Valorant or Rainbow 6 streams on CZcams because it allows me to rewind and pause streams more easily [not to mention that the VODs are much easier to navigate], but I know that there's a preference to watch through Twitch because of Twitch drops. Either way, requiring viewers to watch only on Twitch or anywhere _but_ Twitch is a massive oversight.
The main issue is that twitch has become so big of a company that they're no longer trying to make a good product. They aren't trying to innovate, because they know it's easier to squeeze out money than it is to innovate and bring new streamers/viewers. 12 people in an executive meeting room just go "what can we do to make more money?" and banning sponsorships was what they figured the best move was. The problem is that the more money they squeeze out for the shareholders and investors, the worse the product becomes until they end up gutting it and shutting it down. Twitch would never have ended up like this if it wasn't sold to Amazon. Never trust a megacorporation to keep our interests in mind.
Twitch would never have needed up like this is it wasn't sold to Amazon. You are right there, but blaming amazon is silly, what about the previous owner that created it "for enjoyment" and then sold you out and ran with the money. Sure amazon are the ones ruining it right now, but it was the person that sold it that knew what would happen
I don't think Twitch is "too big" when another entity like CZcams is even larger and doing everything it can to swallow up Twitch's demographic. Every day there's less and less reasons to stream on Twitch and more reasons to migrate to CZcams, which is also its own issue
@@zacharyjackson1829 That's because youtube already HAS all of those 'gobble up the revenue' policies in place. New adoptees can't bit*h about them. CZcams sucks up more than three quarters of revenue generated by content, it's well known and railed about by CCs on countless channels, and has been for YEARS.
The problem is that these tech companies got easy money from investors due to the our historical low interest rates. Since they were raised, those investors are not pumping the tech industry as much, the capital is drying up and twitch now has to make a profit for once in its life. They are just now learning how to create a business plan.
@@beastmode9576dude.. youre consuming their content. Youre like the cartoonish rich person who thinks mcdonalds workers dont deserve to be able to live while ordering a big mac.
In ye olden days television stars would sign an exclusive contract with the studio and only make movies or television for that studio. But they had guaranteed income by the terms of the contract so the stars wouldn't go broke if the studio effed up the marketing of a film or show. Twitch and other platforms want it both ways: they want to say they're not employers for streamers (they're just a marketplace, lol), yet they author their terms such that its impossible for streamers to work anywhere else or generate any other money.
What alternatives? CZcams? Twitcasting? People aren't going anywhere that doesn't have their funny third party emotes. Twitch has a stronghold on western streaming culture and they know it, that's why they try to pull stuff like this and get away with it
Taking a page from Netflix’s book with the ol’ bad policy prank, then actually implementing the bad policy under the radar scheme. A bold play sir, I see you mr twitch.
wow. the fact that a group of people at twitch sat down and all agreed that these policies were a good idea is insane. Why would they sabotage their own company and screw over their community?!! somethings not right but at this point it doesnt matter, ill never look at twitch the same again and im spreading the word to all my streamer friends. Thanks Charles for the insight.
How did this even get past the "No, Carl, you're a f*ing idiot, another idea like this and I'm firing you" stage? They actually greenlit this at multiple stages, had a graphic designer make the info slides, and had the socials team push the update out on Twitter. No one, not a soul, was like "holy balls Wtf are you doing?"
Wouldn't be surprised if the objectors got paid off or silently let go aka fired. I'd like to see what previous employees of twitch had to say (chances are they're still under contract for a few years to not bad mouth the company or some nonsense).
I get the feeling this trend among corporations is because they know exactly what they're doing. They just want to test what they can get away with because they feel confident that there are no consequences for pissing people off and just apologizing later
time to setup a dedicated mic/camera/obs instance for each stream you want to run at the same time. that's literally no longer simulcasting as it is completely separate, and different, streams of data being sent out.
What are the legal implications of their new $25 policy? It sounds mega illegal for them to say, "Hey, if you leave us we're gonna charge you." I just can't imagine that would do well in court.
Imo it seems like the whole if you dont agree to this new change we will terminate your contract is mega illegal too unless they have fine print in everyones contracts saying it can be terminated if people dont go along with every new policy put out
@@TheLastApostle I don't know about that specifically, it feels a lot like consumer agreements, where (at least in the EU) if the terms of whatever service you're paying for change, you're allowed to break the contract off consequence free even if normally there are some fees or penalties for ending the contract prematurely. The whole point being that you agreed to the contract lasting a certain amount of time under the original conditions. If the provider of the contract wants to change those conditions, that's essencially a new contract that you need to agree to. It's a way to prevent companies changing conditions once you've signed a contract and to me that's a no brainer because of course they would do that if it was allowed. The key being you're allowed to refuse the new conditions and the contract ends consequence free, so I'm fairly sure anyone from the EU can very easily bring that 25$ charge to court and win basically by default, UNLESS, that charge was present in the original terms and conditions that they agreed to before the currently changing parts of the contract. In that case they agreed to being charged for breaking the contract regardless of the circumstances and while I still feel like it could be fought in court, it'd be a more complicated matter.
@@TheLastApostle Nah, most companies usually have a clause going "COMPANY reservers its rights to alter, suspend or terminate this contract given due notice", its a very onesided deal thats walking a very, very thin line within the EU given her customer protection regulations which state that a contract cannot be one-sided and valid. I think most EU streamers will be able to point at said customer protection regulation when told to pay a $25 fine and get away without it.
@@tatzecom Pretty sure if you sign a contract and they change it, they can’t enforce anything on you until your original contract expires and you sign a new one.
early termination fees for a contract are a common practice. if you wont want to pay a termination fee, dont accept a contract with one. if this is a new addition, dont sign the contract and you wont get charged the fee. the fee cant apply to a previous contract. it would have to also contain that termination fee in the contract before it was signed.
@@Cara.314 I think it's illegal in some places to charge a cancellation fee, even if the contract says so. That's because it only leads to heavy abuse, like here
I feel sorry for the social media managers and other ordinary employees at Twitch. They have to deal with all this crap while their bosses who made this decision get to go home with a fat pay cheque despite actively making things worse.
I work for a gaming (the gambling kind) company and this is exactly how they treat some of the workers. Underpaid while the heads of the division make their fat bonuses based on quanta’s they meet
They're looking for any possible way to make those pay cheque's fatter, even if it means picking the pockets of the very streamers who make the money for them.
It’s such a blatantly obvious walkback strategy. They wanted to change something, announced a 130% change, the expected outrage ensues, they walk it back to the 100% they actually wanted and now people are happy and thank them for „listening to the community“. And everyone falls for it and doesn’t realize how much they just got f‘d.
Bro they walked it back to 150% and blatantly lied. All people have to do is look at the terms of service. They didn't change anything from the original. Actually added more that they said nothing about
The simulcast change has caused both podcasts(stream interviews that don't fit the main RSS content) that I do audio work for to hightail away from Twitch .
They forced it into the TOS which they now demand all partners sign before their renewal or they lose it. They also included the no simulcast for ALL users rather than just partners as it was before. That hurts only small creators.
This is the perfect time for someone to enter into a deal with mountain dew and run embedded commercials every hour until twitch bans them. Invite twitch to light itself on fire
I mean it did work no? Most people will forget about this and move on. Just the few that actually care about the subject and inform themselves will remember. Also I think it's not that unusual for companies to change tos in the background without making a big public announcement about it
@@gamingyoshi2280 it would be illegal but they are going to make everyone have to agree terms and services again and a majority aren’t going to read it and blindly agree
At this point, all the trust is gone, as a community we should absolutely spread this information around as much as we can, because twitch has PROVEN themselves unworthy of working with the streaming community, share this video, you're doing a service.
@@stevoohoe522 Isnt that hypocritical? You could be living life right now, but instead you're commenting on other peoples posts telling them to live life...
i think what really needs to happen is the streamers who threaten to leave the platform should commit to leaving, to really cement the message that the community won't take this kind of terrible decision making without repercussion. people's livelihoods are at stake, and Twitch's actions are now having a direct effect on them.
Wow their livelihood, they'll actually have to work a real job like the rest of us. Twitch and all streaming platforms could fold and I could care less.
@Васи́лий well I'll tell you right now I don't pay for cable lol, I watch all my shit for free, I let others waste their money so I can have free entertainment
@@johndoe4034this statement alone speaks for itself that you work on a job that you hate and is spiteful against people on general who gets to do fun stuff while getting paid.
If CZcams could stop being led by Boomers and finally integrate a stream chat that looks like Twitch's, as well as better discoverabilities of streamer, and a better streams directory, they would literally eat every other streaming platform. Like, they just need to be Twitch and that's it. I never understood why they never did it
CZcams winning by randomly banning, demonetising, and hiding people. Yeah CZcams is really winning. Twitch being garbage doesn't mean CZcams isn't garbage. Stop pretending.
I have worked in IT , web dev.... it could also very well be that they are redacting a new version, they just communicated things "will be good", but I know the bigger the company, the more checks to go through with even the simplest change. If it stays in the written guidelines for a week more, then they just lied, ofc.
I bet my soul, they will try this same shit again in the future, and they won’t backpedal. It comes down to greed and control, which is too good to pass up for twitch
yeah like..why are people being like 'thank you for reverting changes' when twitch were the ones who came up with those changes no one wanted and benefitted no one?? its like a criminal puts you at gunpoint, tells its gonna rob you, you resist and they say 'sorry' and go away do you just call them a hero / thank them???
@@brunoslybruno Exactly. I've seen companies do this shit on purpose. For example: - A game adds a 12hr cooldown on content which had no CD to begin with - People get pissed off - The devs lower the cooldown from 12hrs to 3 - Suddenly people are okay with it You see the changelog and think about it for hours/days/weeks. You tell yourself that if the changes go live, you'll quit. Then they make the change a tad bit less annoying and you go "omg yes, thank god" It's a fucking stupid tactic. But for some reason, many braindead idiots take the bait. I feel like it works more in games because people have invested more time into it. It's kind of sad but I've felt it too. Some games you just end up playing because you've already spent so much time on it that it'd feel like a waste just leaving it. Imagine an MMO where you've leveled from 1-60, it has taken you 2 weeks and the max level is 70; suddenly they lock one of the endgame features behind a paywall like 15-30USD. You are more likely to pay for it now because you've spent 2 weeks leveling. If you were a new player, you'd probably just quit. There are tons of real examples out there, I just can't think of a specific one at the moment. WoW, OW2 & more.
It never ceases to amaze me with how some companies want to destroy themselves, like seriously. Every company seems to be a hand breadth from becoming unwound.
It's like they _never_ consider how the policy changes are going to be recieved. They _only_ think about the profit margin, and just assume people will be cool with it.
Because companies now only care about themselves 100% and their customer's second. They're doing whatever possible in the interest of the company over the customer 100% of the time. Now I know you think, well, that's a business, they're in it to make money. Well yeah... but they don't make money unless they have customers. If you're basically going to give a big F U to their own client base, wtf do they have left? You need to balance profits, with customer satisfaction. If you're looking for 100% profits and 0% customer satisfaction, you deserve to sink to the bottom of the fucking ocean.
simulcasting does not only hurt small streamers they have a HUGE impact on Esports since games like valorant, League of Legends, Dota usually stream on both youtube and twitch at the same time if not more platforms
I really hope everyone still leaves twitch. The fact that they wanted to do this and would shows how bad the people are running the company and how much they really care about there streamers.its been awhile now that they have shown they don't care about there streamers time and time again they show how evil bad and corrupt of a company they are I hope twitch dies out and everyone leaves I really do.
not gonna happen bud, just like with every youtube change we all complain but in the end we still all stay because its the biggest and most known platform
Leave to where? CZcams doesn't even have an algorithm for purely streaming, you still have to play the youtube game. You clearly don't know what you're talking about, bud
What's the dif here? EVERY company does it. CZcams pull stunts like this all the time putting little tidbits here and there to keep more of the revenue a channel brings in until people are making like... 25% of what they made in just 2018 for the same number of subs. Uber/Lyft continued to drive prices down so much that drivers barely make enough to keep gas in their vehicle, much less all of the other maint. In 2015 drivers could make damn good bank. It's all about getting performers on the stage, paying the first arrivals huge dividends so the performers hawk the absolute hell out of the platform being used. And, over time, bit by bit, taking away the benefits that the early adopters enjoyED (past tense) while also preventing new performers from getting nearly as much of the slice that THEIR WORK generates. That's why laws need to be put in place that states a platform/service/third party intermediary cannot take more than 20% of the revenue generated by a performer... be it a streamer, youtube creator, rideshare/gig worker, ect.
they are so pathetic, it's wild to think that Twitch used to be "the go to" streamming platform, and now they are slowly tearing apart their reputation
Before the people who moderate it it was fun. The people who are drawn to these fake positions of power are the LGBT extremists that are raised by universities.
I was just about to accept my first StreamElements sponsorship when this all went down. Now it's like, can I even check them without the fear of losing my channel to Twitches silly games 😢
It seems like big companies like CZcams and Twitch can just never be complacent with how things are, no matter how fine it is. They always seem to eventually be more and more anti-user with every change they ever make, regardless of how much justified backlash they get.
That's the result of capitalism, people in companies have jobs where their sole purpose is to try and find ways to make more money. They will never be satisfied to keep making what they already make, even if it's millions.
That's what happens when you exclusively hire failed wall street bankers because they larp like they care about your mission or some bs, instead of hiring actual experience.
its because both CZcams and Twitch lose money and have only lasted so long because they are propped up by Google and Amazon. The data they gather and the influence it gives them makes it worth it, but CZcams and Twitch by themselves lose money and have done since they were founded.
In the end, given what is happening to Reddit with their API changes, it appears that Amazon, who owns Twitch, may back down due to the possiiblity of too many big-name streamers leaving. The last thing Amazon wants is streamers leaving for Kick or even Rumble.
Not really since they got to sneak in those other things like simulcast rules. It might be what all this was about originally. They wanted to put out new eules about simulcasting and all that and so they made an egregious change to distract everyone. So it literally was a "look theres a bird" moment and it was successful as far as they know right now
3:26 it only states that we and third party companies and not allowed to use pre recorded media. I interprite this as, you ARE aloud to get sponsors and have the products available to be seen in your stream. You just have to manually put together your advertising strategy for the live stream. You CANNOT download pre-made logos for the brand and use them, you will have to make your own. It's convoluted and vague.
Most people have already refused to use twitch lmao, they'll just keep chipping away at who's left till they have to beg which won't work and they'll go belly up
Since this video came out I have heard that the reasoning this has happened is because there is a third party ad sponsor going around offering money to streamers in exchange for streamers to show their ads on stream. This would be stopped if the now going to be rewritten policy would go through. For clarification this service would provide the streamer with ads that you would see currently on Twitch during ad breaks or on CZcams before videos and the streamer can then show them via their streaming software like OBS to "run the ads". In exchange they would get a large sum of money if they take this sponsorship.
I've worked in the Gaming industry for and with the top companies since 2004. I've watched companies go from the hardwork the original creators and teams put together to where gaming is now - the historical innovators of growing the PC industry now being preyed upon by those who bought them out or the investors. They've taken an area of story telling, gameplay and most importantly for gaming's lifeblood - community and searched for ways to monetize and bring in more money while providing less or nothing for the users. I can already imagine how this policy was thought of. This was the plan of 1 or 2 people with little to no experience in gaming or community management, probably someone who made a rewards program for Capital One - and came up with this plan and presented the numbers with a nice percentage bolded in green on their word documents. If Twitch's corporate behavior has been subsumed by Amazon, then this plan was presented to multiple people in a meeting. At Amazon, before you present, everyone in the meeting has to read the entire document and then they discuss it as a group. Which means this went through many, many, out of touch people looking at the theoretical corporate growth and not the end user reaction. This idea is bankrupt of user experience or expectations. The PR response was TOO fast, IMO. Which means that the corporate leaders for the Twitch division forced that earlier and rapid response disregarding the PR team's advise for this crisis comms. "You guys just didn't get it." That's a ham fisted response demanded by a Vice President or group of them. This new response is what the original response should've been. This policy coming out had to have been reviewed by Amazon's communication lead who is probably a VP or Director, they probably oversee Whole Foods, Amazon, Kindle, Twitch, whatever. It was put in front of them, they MAY have tossed this over to someone they trust in the team like another middle manager who just nodded their head and this went out - without approval from the Twitch "Boots on the ground" team. Twitch's business metrics are forgetting that they aren't selling e-books. They aren't rapidly delivering Squishmallows to McKaeluh. It is a platform grown by its creators and the community that THEY grow. Twitch's hand in amplifying, discoverability and all that might as well be magic. Its the creators who generate success for themselves and in turn, growth for the platform as a whole. They need to sit back, redefine their business goals and determine how they're going to extract value from Twitch in a way that doesn't generate negative response and experience. For your statement on the people replying to Twitch's backpedaling as "Yay thanks for listening", I agree with you from an emotional POV. But also, when you just crap on a corporations "Good-will" it makes their execs not tread lightly next time. They're just going to see you as "Mouth breathers, angsty neckbeards, and babies". Words I've heard in response to negative feedback when a company tries to be "Nice". They become more isolated in their decisions and will also bury their heads in the sand when a community lead, researcher or data analyst brings them concerns on sentiment for new projects and programs. I think it is beneficial for all streamers to respond with receptive thanks even if they are meaningless, just like Twitch's apology.
i feel like twitch is intentionally giving you the worst case scenario first to give you a shock and dials it back down slowly so they can introduce a policy thats basically on the maximum they can push it, kinda like how negotiators massively increase the price for selling something and slowly reduce their offer so people pay the highest amount their willing to pay..
Yea, dirty tactics By reducing it step by step now they can more or less increase the prices to the maximum people are willing to give Kind of like scam sites that sell you something completely overpriced and then scratch that by half to make a "super special deal", whereas the product seems more attractive because it is like 50% off, even tho that might still be more then its worth
9:00 I'm fairly certain, could be wrong, that they can't charge you for not signing the new agreement if it wasn't in the original contract... the only way they could potentially charge you for termination is if you sign this new contract that contains this agreement.
Like i said in your last video about this. That thing they are doing is a tactic where you propose a outragious idea, get everybody angry and then propose something much less radical. It has being used by the big techs a lot. Now the less outragious idea will be the thing they wanted since the beguining.
Except if they could get away with it they’d be quite happy to get what they originally asked for too. This is like corporate combination of “it doesn’t hurt to ask” and “it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.” Make a big policy change and hope for the best. If the backlash is small enough just proceed. If people get too upset just say it was a miscommunication and you’re fixing the issue for everyone’s benefit. Oh and a little bit of gaslighting for good measure.
As usual, Charlie knows exactly what’s going on and called it when he said they knew exactly what they were doing when they were like “oh no you misunderstood, must be because the terms were too broad” yet a day later they totally confirmed it by saying “we know that new policy we made will massively impact you by interfering with sponsors, …”
What kind of absolutely greedy snake does all of the PR work for Twitch? Everything they’ve been doing for years goes beyond shady and it’s essentially to suck the life from the very people that give life to their platform
Twitch should launch these policy changed on the first of April, so that if they do screw up they can just say, April Fools and safe themselves the embarrassment.
Anyone notice the new Twitch Turbo they implemented to bypass having to Sub to Streamers to get rid of the ads? Don't know how long it has been actually on Twitch just logged in today and saw it.
I like to imagine the twitch staff are all in an intense competition for who can ruin the platform the fastest
basically mixer 2.0
I recognize that doge’s hair…
here before comment blows up
guarantee this comment will get 4.1k+ likes
Who’s gonna win? Let’s find out-
Imagine being charged $25 when you're told that you're fired
Twitch; it’s time for the $25 firing charge
Streamer; no I’m leaving and going else where bye
Only $25? Charge $9999999999999 so no one can leave :D
That literally sounds like something Mr Krabs would do
@@joshtaylor9626a "cancellation fee" for something like this is OTHERWORLDLY
They're clearly desperate for money. I understand that the platform is unsustainable from a financial standpoint, and they're probably losing massive amounts of money constantly. But they need to work with the community, not against them.
Streamers are basically contractors with a huge voice, and Amazon think they can screw them over like they do with their other contractors, where they face few consequences for their actions.
It's impossible to get away with screwing over streamers when they can easily go to another platform and drag twitch's image through the mud. And reputation is extremely important to get new creators.
Feels more like a "we are apologizing because we got caught" rather than "we are apologizing cause we did something bad" situation
That’s how it is for every corporate apology lol Game companies will apologize after customers didn’t eat their shit.
@@inanimatesum4945 like blizzard.
"Sorry we got caught"
--Its ok just fix your nonsense
"Ok fix'd"
--You literally changed nothing.
"(:"
Exactly what I was about to comment.
Exactly, the fact that they didn't remove all the terrible changes in their terms of service proves that.
Twitch: We want to be transparent with the community
Also Twitch: Changes TOS in secret
Town Of Salem
I love seeing a company destroy itself in real time.
Never gets old.
My farts are better than Charlie’s farts.
@David [DOND WII?! More like PooPoo WII!] What content do you make
Like blair aka Illuminaughtii 😂
Mixer 2.0 anyone
watching twitch slowly destroy itself is like watching a snake eat itself out of stress
my farts are better than Charlie’s farts.
More like a pokemon hitting itself out of confusion.
How?
What do you mean slowly? They are tryna speedrun this
They are not dying in the next 5-10 years tbh
Corporations will NEVER get the message until you hurt their bottom line. We need a domino effect of creators going to other platforms, they need real consequences.
You know. The French peasantry had a wonderful idea what to do about their nobility.
Would be a shame to remind corpos of prior history. . . .
@@Voidthedeathbringer5 We have to clean the gulliotene its been collecting dust and rust for a bit.
Edit: Auto correct acting stupid
@@Lennyst You want to feed them jello?
Auto correct probably got in the way for him.
He's referring to the word Guillotine.
The aim of the policy change was exactly to aim their bottom line.
I'm just dying to see how they think they can enforce a $25 fee to people that are refusing to sign a contract.
"Where did I sign saying I would agree to pay you $25? Oh so it's in the contract I am refusing to sign?".
Yeah... that ain't gonna fly in any country I know of.
Pretty sure the word we're all looking for is "extortion"
Well idk about all of this sounds like someone is paying there fucking pocket and accusing someone else to run there name in the ground
O well
Taking half your Sub money is nothing when you realise the gaming sponsored incentives that goes through the platform itself usually involves them taking up to 80% of the cut from the marketing agencies and telling the streamer they get 100 dollars... Also remember when they started donation buttons where they take 30% because they hated people getting paypal donations that they couldn't get their hands on XD
no way never expected to see you here
Insightful
Yup you’re here, just as I expected.
my farts are better than Charlie’s farts.
at the end of the day they need to make money somehow.
i think most of their recent decisions were all terrible.
but they were based on the need to make money somehow.
twitch is expensive to run. them trying to get a cut from donations and such is 100% fine imo.
Sabotaging sponsorships like they are trying rn ofc isnt what im defending here
Twitch wants to be “clear with the community” and yet still doesn’t give reasons when people are banned
I streamed all summer last year and made it to a few hundred followers. I decided to do a pool stream to celebrate someone's birthday as twitch had recently made a pools category and it just sounded fun.
I was extremely careful to pick out an appropriate swimsuit (no cleavage or anything) and be modest the whole stream. I made sure to put it in the correct category and was even telling people to please not ask me to turn around because I am trying to be modest and not show my butt. We were just chatting and having a good time when my stream suddenly stopped. I check my email and had received one email that I was PERMANENTLY banned for attire. I was baffled and immediately emailed back asking if they could explain what about it was wrong, never got a response.
I was completely beside myself for months. I cried so many times wondering why and how I would've never done it had I known I could be permanently banned. I told close friends and in the coming months they would send me links to other girl's streams where they were wearing thongs doing squats for donations or painting their boobs. Finally, a woman had nude sex on stream and only got a 7 day ban. I cried so, so hard. I will never understand why, but I promised myself I would never stream on Twitch again.
my farts are better than Charlie’s farts
@@samantharedacted9226 :( I'm sorry
@@samantharedacted9226 im sorry for that, it seems all companies do this as a couple months ago ive had my epic games account (worth a couple thousands), suddenly banned with no explanation while i wasn't even actively using it, they never actually explained the reason behind it.
I hope you find success on other platforms that are more welcoming and free of bs, best of luck!
trying to get twitch to listen is like talking to a brick wall. which is convinent that they are as clear as a brick wall too :o>
It honestly feels like Twitch needs to be put on a watchlist for how badly it is trying to off itself. This is absolutely crazy. Greed will ruin every company. That's just how the world works. And a company like amazon will always be greedy.
Capitalism moment
More like an early life moment.
@@Ben-wp5rx wrong, its woke liberalism
Well, it's not like Amazon is owning Twitch, so there's that.
@@Usicky12 Please do tell me how this is possibly "woke" and not a symptom of capitalistic greed, or is that your only ever buzzword response when anyone criticizes a capitalist company for doing capitalist things?
All I want at this point is to see netflix and twitch to go bankrupt. Its a sad thought but nothing would make me happier than to see them start panicking in fear of going bankrupt wondering "How could this have happened?"
They canceled inside job only to replace it with a rip off Netflix deserves it
*Blockbuster opening up the coffin Netflix put it in* "Room for one more..."
No Netflix means we're Stone Age?
A $25 cancellation fee if you reject the new Twitch Partner contract is absolutely disgusting. They are literally stooping to the low, anti-consumer strategies of goddamn cable companies.
that's exactly how i feel. although $25 isn't much, it feels like it's meant to trap twitch streamers and force them to agree with their new terms.
At least it’s only $25, they could easily charge like $999999999 so no one ever leaves 😂
@@lifedeather But don't you see how implementing such a fee even at $25 could lead to it inflating to do exactly that in the future? Like how MTXs in games went from little things like cosmetics to intentionally locking-out features previously included.
kick is offering to pay it if you switch
Creators literally make millions of twitch using their platform for free and people complain about $25. THATS crazy. You people are lost in the sauce hanging on ever word these creators say. Twitch is literally running at a loss and everytime they try to do something to change that they get threatened by the very people that they provided opportunity too. I wish they went through with all these changes and just said middle finger to these so called creators. Just to humble them.
TLDR: They backpedaled on the stealing sponsorship money publicly - but haven't updated the policies and snuck in new rules that punish streaming on multiple platforms, an added a fee for leaving partner contracts.
Twitch is on its way out.
This is a great tldr. (I watched the whole vid and u summed it up great!!)
I bet the person responsible for Twitch’s public documentation went on PTO immediately after the previous announcement, and now some JIRA ticket is stuck Pending that’ll publish the article. 😂
my farts are better than Charlie’s farts.
Yeah, it is on it is way out. FML can people just learn contractions?
@@StealthyDead Prepare to be ratio'dn'tn't
Wubby had a great take last night. They do this crazy announcement and when everyone freaks out about it, they walk it back. After everyone sayd thank you twitch for not taking away sponsors, twitch will slowly implement these policies again.
Twitch should not be thanked for trying to be greedy. Twitch should be in your crosshairs. If they even think about putting in policies that hurt the streamer you walk.
They are clearly scared they are going to lose their users, and just like a person who's scared of losing their significant other to someone else, they are making REALLY dumb choices trying to keep them around but in reality pushes them away.
real
That $25 termination fee seems like grounds for a class-action lawsuit. Let's see how this plays out.
We still owe them money for leaving, quitting or getting fired? WTF?
Wouldn't they have to have that written down in the previous contract? Else anyone could just decide to ask for money for anything that they don't like their contract partner doing
@@animaier yup, its literally illegal for them to do this, if the person hasnt read and agreed to these tos.
since this is a fee for literally not agreeing/reading the new tos it cant even legally be enforced.
I think whoever wrote that policy is literally braindead
@@animaier afaik all they have to do is show you a small notification that terms and conditions are changing, you never read it, and it's all good and also your fault
@@xerzy even with the notification i don't think they can change everything they want surely there are some limits. What if they put a termination fee of $10k ? It doesn't make sense
Never thought I'd see CZcams losing the bad policy game.
Gays and trans get a whole month but veterans get one single day? What a broken ass country. I'm not gonna stand for it and neither should any of you.
at least youtube is better tho, at least when people actually complained to susan she actually did something unlike twitch even tho i hated her decisions on youtube
My farts are better than Charlie’s farts.
@@LyraPyxisVT Didn't they push removing dislikes while she was still CEO despite no one wanting it to go into effect?
Don't read my name!,,
I'm in my early 30s now and I've seen so many small media companies that were loved go corporate and be completely destroyed in a few years. Once the ball starts rolling there is no stopping it. No matter what twitch says, they will forever pursue their goal of being nothing more than a life sucking money machine until there is nothing left. I have never seen it end in any other way.
Twitch mismanagement in a nutshell: We want more money, but instead of exploring ways to generate new revenue on the platform we’re just going to take larger portions of existing money from the quasi-employees that allow us to exist in the first place.
Which is, unironically, a backwards-ass way of making money since even the bigger streamers are lucky to see a third of what they're given. If it doesn't keep them afloat, what do you think these streamers will do?
Bro the small photo-canvas shop I used to work in used to be similar to this. The owner never changed a thing for years and sales gradually got worse and worse. Then the owner would come in and have meetings with us to find out why sales were low and blame it on us. Even one time inciting we might have been stealing stock and thats why sales were so low lol. I left not long after that bombshell
Brand new ideas? More forms of media entertainment? Better environments for streamers and consumers? What are you talking about we need to control are basically free money makers to a point they feel drained and annoyed
Capitalism in a nutshell :p
I love how everytime Twitch does some sneaky scheming, Charlie pulls out his spot light, points it into the abyss and yells "hey everybody, you seeing this horseshit?". Thanks for keeping people updated, Charles.
Agreed, he's our white knight atheist edgelord.
And what hold true every time is, screaming into the abyss accomplishes nothing.
@@davep5698 they're literally changing the policy, what are you talking about
@@davep5698 ok tardosaurus
@@Farce13 while in the same video, he point out they did not change anything at all, just said they would and then didnt, did you actually listen to him.
But more what I meant is that he gave out before, still streamed on twitch, gives out now, still streams of twitch, and in both cases the place still got worse. Literally doing less than nothing.
It’s still astounding how they possibly thought that was a good idea, and honestly I’m amazed that they’re even still surviving as a platform at this point
My farts are better than Charlie’s farts.
Gays and trans get a whole month but veterans get one single day? What a broken ass country. I'm not gonna stand for it and neither should any of you.
I don't get how they've deluded themselves into thinking that trying to squeeze more money out of their users is going to do anything other than _lose them users._ It's the exact same thing Netflix did - and it _never_ goes well.
They only survive because of its old reputation and it has become so known as the streaming website everyone is accustomed to it.
@IKillAnimalsOnYT You’re a waste of human skin.
5-10 Years? He's very possitive i would say 1-3 Years left for Twitch if they continue this way
My best guess is they're gonna add it to the "we don't like you but we need an excuse to ban you" tool kit. They're probably gonna crack down on potential ads for kick & rumble if they haven't already & again if a streamer happens to make comments about joining one of those platforms they're likely gonna get slapped with this new rule & try to say "well they were advertising a rival business"
In psychology, this is called a "door-in-the-face" strategy. If you ask someone to, say, donate $100 to your cause and they say WHAT THE HELL NO ARE YOU CRAZY? Then you say, "Okay, well I'm sorry, can I ask for maybe $10 then?" they're far more likely to agree because it seems like you have given way to your original ask, even though you really just wanted $10 in the first place.
This is the opposite of the "foot-in-the-door" strategy, which is like when a political party asks you if they can put a little 8"x10" sign in your yard, and you're like "okay I guess that's small and not intrusive." Then they come back a month later and ask to put a 3ftx4ft sign up and you're like "Well I already let them put up a small one, so what's the difference?" When originally you'd never let them put a big sign in your yard.
(BTW these are the actual means by which these phenomena were studied. Asking for donations and putting signs in yards.)
I dont know why people still use Twitch.
As soon as they banned words like "Simp" everyone should just have left the platform IMO.
When companies try to censor what you say, then its time to leave.
I mean, no one will leave a platform just to say Simp
@@vipr1142 So you'd want your Twitter feed to contain snuff tapes & illegal porn? Cause that's what you're saying.
Companies can, and should, censor. An absolutist ideology is really flawed here
@@LegenDove He said censor what you say. I'm guessing you're all for china and north korean levels of censorship omegalul
i'd just ask them what they need the money for instead. If they refuse to tell me why they want money, i'd tell them no.
Thee best thing thing to come out of this is Twitch saying they'll take a 25$ fee if you terminate your affiliate agreement with them, only for Kick to jump in and claim they're willing to pay the 25$ to anyone who breaks their contract with Twitch and moves to Kick. Peak management.
Never interrupt your enemy while he's making a mistake. Kick execs must be loving this, such a simple move will likely give them a big boost to their numbers for what is essentially a pittance
thank god your bringin up the simulcasting thing, as some people are theorizing that this whole crazy sponsor thing was a distraction from that
It's crazy to think that all Mixer had to do was ride out the dry season and they would have had the entire Twitch community running into their arms with how hell bent Twitch is on grinding their userbase into paste.
The issue is that people would have probably have just gone to youtube anyways. CZcams is lacking behind in the livestream format. But if you're changing platforms might as well go to the platform that is probably where your VODs are being posted already and your audience will already be on
As a person who works in the corporate world, I can see a lot of these decisions being pushed down to try to appease the board members. A lot of those people don’t know much about the twitch community and they’re only looking at spreadsheets to make decisions.
my farts are better than Charlie’s farts
@@p-__ prove it
@@deandrewilliams6011 I've seen a lot of this bots/users but they don't even have the video to prove it, what a disappointment tsk tsk.
It's almost as if corporates only make decisions based on how much revenue they can gain other than actually listen to what their target audience want
my farts are better than charlies farts
jk im not a bot
The charge of $25 for NOT agreeing to their new terms of service is like the biggest slap in the face to their own content creators.
It's also not enforceable at all
@@crobdog I still think it's a very bad idea to even suggest this policy, enforceable or not.
Kinda seems like extorsion
@@grantbeaudry8634 Categorically speaking, it is. Legalized extortion, but still extortion.
@@FunBunChuck Not legal
I’m glad you keep up with this stuff because I definitely wouldn’t be able to keep up, I been trying to develop new things for streams and I haven’t activated any of my affiliate things yet because twitch aren’t fully trustworthy yet and I’m going to stay un-affiliated until they hopefully get better because I really don’t want to restart on a different platform. Thanks Charlie for keeping us streamers up to date for the possible worst
Situation is getting more and more ridiculous.
Twitch continues to baffle me, this is like a child at the doctor’s office being dragged away kicking and screaming when all he needs to be okay is a bandaid
My farts are better than Charlie’s farts.
bro the replies here are wild 💀
That’s…actually quite apt
@@aidankelley5106 they are bots
@@aidankelley5106 fr the bots are now claiming they are commititng crimes on youtube
Ive never seen a company that had such a monopoly over something try so hard to destroy that monopoly
The thing is they don't have a monopoly that's why they are doing so many dumb things, twitch is dying and they are just digging their own grave faster.
@@GuyWithAnAmazingHat Definitely not why they are doing this, they are doing this out of pure idiocy. They really did have an almost complete monopoly up until 2020/2021. They are just complete fucking idiots, the current leaders/directors are sitting on too much power and influence without actually being tapped in with anything: neither the culture nor market of their own product.
CZcams, rumble and kick the new meta. F?ck twitch
@@GuyWithAnAmazingHat It's almost one, their only competition is CZcams. Literally all they had to do was be less terrible than that and instead they're just handing CZcams another monopoly on a platter. The line between greed and stupidity is nearly non-existent here, the fall is unreal.
CZcams is the one with the Monopoly. I wish there was another 'CZcams' that'd sink this one
One of the other avenues that is directly impacted by disallowing simulcasting is, again, the esports scene. I personally prefer watching Valorant or Rainbow 6 streams on CZcams because it allows me to rewind and pause streams more easily [not to mention that the VODs are much easier to navigate], but I know that there's a preference to watch through Twitch because of Twitch drops. Either way, requiring viewers to watch only on Twitch or anywhere _but_ Twitch is a massive oversight.
congrats on number 1 trending charlie you deserve it man.
The main issue is that twitch has become so big of a company that they're no longer trying to make a good product. They aren't trying to innovate, because they know it's easier to squeeze out money than it is to innovate and bring new streamers/viewers. 12 people in an executive meeting room just go "what can we do to make more money?" and banning sponsorships was what they figured the best move was. The problem is that the more money they squeeze out for the shareholders and investors, the worse the product becomes until they end up gutting it and shutting it down.
Twitch would never have ended up like this if it wasn't sold to Amazon. Never trust a megacorporation to keep our interests in mind.
If they want more money, they should just make the site better. It's that simple.
Twitch would never have needed up like this is it wasn't sold to Amazon. You are right there, but blaming amazon is silly, what about the previous owner that created it "for enjoyment" and then sold you out and ran with the money. Sure amazon are the ones ruining it right now, but it was the person that sold it that knew what would happen
I don't think Twitch is "too big" when another entity like CZcams is even larger and doing everything it can to swallow up Twitch's demographic. Every day there's less and less reasons to stream on Twitch and more reasons to migrate to CZcams, which is also its own issue
@@jacksonpercy8044 they should, but its easier to squeeze money out of your current vustomers than it is to find new customers
@@zacharyjackson1829 That's because youtube already HAS all of those 'gobble up the revenue' policies in place. New adoptees can't bit*h about them.
CZcams sucks up more than three quarters of revenue generated by content, it's well known and railed about by CCs on countless channels, and has been for YEARS.
I actually can not grasp how they make such unhinged decisions, just keep the platform how it was.
My farts are better than Charlie’s farts 💨
The problem is that these tech companies got easy money from investors due to the our historical low interest rates. Since they were raised, those investors are not pumping the tech industry as much, the capital is drying up and twitch now has to make a profit for once in its life. They are just now learning how to create a business plan.
@Beast Mode someone’s salty💀 not their fault they have a better option than working at a gas station every day
But that doesn't make more money. They never want same money.
@@beastmode9576dude.. youre consuming their content. Youre like the cartoonish rich person who thinks mcdonalds workers dont deserve to be able to live while ordering a big mac.
I love that the first vide on my recommended after watching this is "IT WAS A MISINPUT"
In ye olden days television stars would sign an exclusive contract with the studio and only make movies or television for that studio. But they had guaranteed income by the terms of the contract so the stars wouldn't go broke if the studio effed up the marketing of a film or show. Twitch and other platforms want it both ways: they want to say they're not employers for streamers (they're just a marketplace, lol), yet they author their terms such that its impossible for streamers to work anywhere else or generate any other money.
The worst part about this is that people will eat up this apology like nothing happened instead of looking for alternatives. Twitch is long gone.
my farts are better than Charlie’s farts.
@@p-__ no mine are
This type of shit is inevitable with Twitch being owned by Amazon.
What alternatives? CZcams? Twitcasting? People aren't going anywhere that doesn't have their funny third party emotes. Twitch has a stronghold on western streaming culture and they know it, that's why they try to pull stuff like this and get away with it
@@kuro_kikick and rumble are both on the rise not to mention youtube streaming as a whole
Taking a page from Netflix’s book with the ol’ bad policy prank, then actually implementing the bad policy under the radar scheme. A bold play sir, I see you mr twitch.
@@mdoublehb6069 preach your religion elsewhere ya vegetable.
@@mdoublehb6069 and that has to do with my comment how?
@MdoubleHB Imagine making comments like this
@MdoubleHB what the hell is wrong with you?
@@mdoublehb6069the lack of red meat is clearly affecting your brain function.
wow. the fact that a group of people at twitch sat down and all agreed that these policies were a good idea is insane. Why would they sabotage their own company and screw over their community?!! somethings not right but at this point it doesnt matter, ill never look at twitch the same again and im spreading the word to all my streamer friends. Thanks Charles for the insight.
Twitch Fans: You cant kill twitch!
Twitch: Observe.
If i was a Twitch streamer, id still run for the hills after this because this is proof that they will try to control sponsors somehow in the future.
How is it legal to change contract terms without the consent of all parties?
my farts are better than Charlie’s farts
@@dhv2852 Because Amazon makes the rules and if you don't like them, you can leave. But not without giving them money first.
oh nooo charlies 9 million dollars a year salary is going to be 7 million dollars a year now, how will he ever survive nooooooo
@@flipf615 This would effect everyone, including smaller streamers. Idk how you can't see this when its pretty common sense.
How did this even get past the "No, Carl, you're a f*ing idiot, another idea like this and I'm firing you" stage?
They actually greenlit this at multiple stages, had a graphic designer make the info slides, and had the socials team push the update out on Twitter.
No one, not a soul, was like "holy balls Wtf are you doing?"
Wouldn't be surprised if the objectors got paid off or silently let go aka fired. I'd like to see what previous employees of twitch had to say (chances are they're still under contract for a few years to not bad mouth the company or some nonsense).
"It hurt itself in its confusion!"
I get the feeling this trend among corporations is because they know exactly what they're doing. They just want to test what they can get away with because they feel confident that there are no consequences for pissing people off and just apologizing later
Probably the designers and stuff were like "yeah... this oughta be good..." but they were doing their job
my farts are better than Charlie’s farts
Thank you Charlie for exposing Twitch trying to pull a fast one on us 👍
Yo it's you
time to setup a dedicated mic/camera/obs instance for each stream you want to run at the same time. that's literally no longer simulcasting as it is completely separate, and different, streams of data being sent out.
What are the legal implications of their new $25 policy? It sounds mega illegal for them to say, "Hey, if you leave us we're gonna charge you." I just can't imagine that would do well in court.
Imo it seems like the whole if you dont agree to this new change we will terminate your contract is mega illegal too unless they have fine print in everyones contracts saying it can be terminated if people dont go along with every new policy put out
@@TheLastApostle I don't know about that specifically, it feels a lot like consumer agreements, where (at least in the EU) if the terms of whatever service you're paying for change, you're allowed to break the contract off consequence free even if normally there are some fees or penalties for ending the contract prematurely. The whole point being that you agreed to the contract lasting a certain amount of time under the original conditions. If the provider of the contract wants to change those conditions, that's essencially a new contract that you need to agree to. It's a way to prevent companies changing conditions once you've signed a contract and to me that's a no brainer because of course they would do that if it was allowed. The key being you're allowed to refuse the new conditions and the contract ends consequence free, so I'm fairly sure anyone from the EU can very easily bring that 25$ charge to court and win basically by default, UNLESS, that charge was present in the original terms and conditions that they agreed to before the currently changing parts of the contract. In that case they agreed to being charged for breaking the contract regardless of the circumstances and while I still feel like it could be fought in court, it'd be a more complicated matter.
@@TheLastApostle Nah, most companies usually have a clause going "COMPANY reservers its rights to alter, suspend or terminate this contract given due notice", its a very onesided deal thats walking a very, very thin line within the EU given her customer protection regulations which state that a contract cannot be one-sided and valid.
I think most EU streamers will be able to point at said customer protection regulation when told to pay a $25 fine and get away without it.
@LegalEagle
@@tatzecom Pretty sure if you sign a contract and they change it, they can’t enforce anything on you until your original contract expires and you sign a new one.
Twitch sneaking in a $25 cancellation fee is just classic Twitch.
Is that for canceling a contract or deleting your channel? That’s crazy
@@TeaTimeThrillers for both
early termination fees for a contract are a common practice. if you wont want to pay a termination fee, dont accept a contract with one.
if this is a new addition, dont sign the contract and you wont get charged the fee.
the fee cant apply to a previous contract. it would have to also contain that termination fee in the contract before it was signed.
@@Cara.314 I think it's illegal in some places to charge a cancellation fee, even if the contract says so. That's because it only leads to heavy abuse, like here
@@Cara.314 corporate stan
The kick ad playing on CZcams with everybody's complaints about it is hilarious
Like they said, it's gone from the guidelines, not the ToS. I didn't even have to fully read the tweet on the screen.
I feel sorry for the social media managers and other ordinary employees at Twitch. They have to deal with all this crap while their bosses who made this decision get to go home with a fat pay cheque despite actively making things worse.
True and real
my farts are better than Charlie’s farts
You dont become a billionaire by treating people fairly
I work for a gaming (the gambling kind) company and this is exactly how they treat some of the workers. Underpaid while the heads of the division make their fat bonuses based on quanta’s they meet
They're looking for any possible way to make those pay cheque's fatter, even if it means picking the pockets of the very streamers who make the money for them.
It’s such a blatantly obvious walkback strategy. They wanted to change something, announced a 130% change, the expected outrage ensues, they walk it back to the 100% they actually wanted and now people are happy and thank them for „listening to the community“.
And everyone falls for it and doesn’t realize how much they just got f‘d.
Bro they walked it back to 150% and blatantly lied. All people have to do is look at the terms of service. They didn't change anything from the original. Actually added more that they said nothing about
The simulcast change has caused both podcasts(stream interviews that don't fit the main RSS content) that I do audio work for to hightail away from Twitch .
i swear that contract termination fee's were made illegal somewhere in the US, but for the life of me i cant remember where
They forced it into the TOS which they now demand all partners sign before their renewal or they lose it. They also included the no simulcast for ALL users rather than just partners as it was before. That hurts only small creators.
My farts are better than Charlie’s farts.
Gays and trans get a whole month but veterans get one single day? What a broken ass country. I'm not gonna stand for it and neither should any of you.
90% of twitch is small creators
Twitch was just trying to bring real life wealth inequality to their platform! /s
This is the perfect time for someone to enter into a deal with mountain dew and run embedded commercials every hour until twitch bans them. Invite twitch to light itself on fire
@MdoubleHB and extremely processed vegan food is better?
Would have loved to see that meeting where the policy was decided.
Now that you mention it, Twitch has the same color scheme of the Decepticons. PURPLE
The Stealth addition to the Terms and Conditions is such a scummy move I'm honestly surprised they expected this to work.
I mean it did work no? Most people will forget about this and move on. Just the few that actually care about the subject and inform themselves will remember. Also I think it's not that unusual for companies to change tos in the background without making a big public announcement about it
pretty sure ist illegal to say ah we removed x from contract yet not actually doing it
It won't stand up for 10 minutes in court.
@@gamingyoshi2280 Well if you dont think its legal you can always try taking Twitch to court to see if it is/isnt.
@@gamingyoshi2280 it would be illegal but they are going to make everyone have to agree terms and services again and a majority aren’t going to read it and blindly agree
At this point, all the trust is gone, as a community we should absolutely spread this information around as much as we can, because twitch has PROVEN themselves unworthy of working with the streaming community, share this video, you're doing a service.
So you think
@@absoluterainbow deep bro wow whats ur iq bro?
As a community cringe
What's with all the hate? I'm trying to raise more awareness so that twitch can't flat out LIE and get away with it
@@stevoohoe522 Isnt that hypocritical? You could be living life right now, but instead you're commenting on other peoples posts telling them to live life...
Changing a legal document like terms and service contracts take more time then tweeting. Give them time.
Interested to see what LTT says about the simulstream stuff because they stream to YT, Twitch and floatplane for all streams
i think what really needs to happen is the streamers who threaten to leave the platform should commit to leaving, to really cement the message that the community won't take this kind of terrible decision making without repercussion. people's livelihoods are at stake, and Twitch's actions are now having a direct effect on them.
my farts are better than Charlie’s farts.
Wow their livelihood, they'll actually have to work a real job like the rest of us. Twitch and all streaming platforms could fold and I could care less.
@@johndoe4034 If you don't care for entertainment careers don't watch TV, look at any form of art, no youtube, and no gaming.
@Васи́лий well I'll tell you right now I don't pay for cable lol, I watch all my shit for free, I let others waste their money so I can have free entertainment
@@johndoe4034this statement alone speaks for itself that you work on a job that you hate and is spiteful against people on general who gets to do fun stuff while getting paid.
CZcams is out here winning the war against Twitch by not doing anything at all 🤣
Yup
my farts are better than Charlie’s farts.
CZcams is the secret identity of Luigi.
If CZcams could stop being led by Boomers and finally integrate a stream chat that looks like Twitch's, as well as better discoverabilities of streamer, and a better streams directory, they would literally eat every other streaming platform.
Like, they just need to be Twitch and that's it. I never understood why they never did it
CZcams winning by randomly banning, demonetising, and hiding people. Yeah CZcams is really winning.
Twitch being garbage doesn't mean CZcams isn't garbage. Stop pretending.
I have worked in IT , web dev.... it could also very well be that they are redacting a new version, they just communicated things "will be good", but I know the bigger the company, the more checks to go through with even the simplest change. If it stays in the written guidelines for a week more, then they just lied, ofc.
its like that one time i tried to do a backflip and landed on my head
and then tried to do it again but that time landed on my belly
Never thank a Company for reverting an idiotic mistake like this. Especially in this case where they kind of didnt even do that.
I bet my soul, they will try this same shit again in the future, and they won’t backpedal. It comes down to greed and control, which is too good to pass up for twitch
yeah like..why are people being like 'thank you for reverting changes' when twitch were the ones who came up with those changes no one wanted and benefitted no one??
its like a criminal puts you at gunpoint, tells its gonna rob you, you resist and they say 'sorry' and go away
do you just call them a hero / thank them???
@@brunoslybruno Exactly. I've seen companies do this shit on purpose.
For example:
- A game adds a 12hr cooldown on content which had no CD to begin with
- People get pissed off
- The devs lower the cooldown from 12hrs to 3
- Suddenly people are okay with it
You see the changelog and think about it for hours/days/weeks. You tell yourself that if the changes go live, you'll quit. Then they make the change a tad bit less annoying and you go "omg yes, thank god"
It's a fucking stupid tactic. But for some reason, many braindead idiots take the bait.
I feel like it works more in games because people have invested more time into it. It's kind of sad but I've felt it too. Some games you just end up playing because you've already spent so much time on it that it'd feel like a waste just leaving it.
Imagine an MMO where you've leveled from 1-60, it has taken you 2 weeks and the max level is 70; suddenly they lock one of the endgame features behind a paywall like 15-30USD. You are more likely to pay for it now because you've spent 2 weeks leveling. If you were a new player, you'd probably just quit.
There are tons of real examples out there, I just can't think of a specific one at the moment. WoW, OW2 & more.
It never ceases to amaze me with how some companies want to destroy themselves, like seriously. Every company seems to be a hand breadth from becoming unwound.
My farts are better than Charlie’s farts
It's like they _never_ consider how the policy changes are going to be recieved. They _only_ think about the profit margin, and just assume people will be cool with it.
Don't read my name!,,
This guy played Darkest Dungeon
Because companies now only care about themselves 100% and their customer's second. They're doing whatever possible in the interest of the company over the customer 100% of the time.
Now I know you think, well, that's a business, they're in it to make money. Well yeah... but they don't make money unless they have customers. If you're basically going to give a big F U to their own client base, wtf do they have left? You need to balance profits, with customer satisfaction. If you're looking for 100% profits and 0% customer satisfaction, you deserve to sink to the bottom of the fucking ocean.
simulcasting does not only hurt small streamers they have a HUGE impact on Esports since games like valorant, League of Legends, Dota usually stream on both youtube and twitch at the same time if not more platforms
These companies never share their intentions but they are clear to everyone.
I really hope everyone still leaves twitch. The fact that they wanted to do this and would shows how bad the people are running the company and how much they really care about there streamers.its been awhile now that they have shown they don't care about there streamers time and time again they show how evil bad and corrupt of a company they are I hope twitch dies out and everyone leaves I really do.
not gonna happen bud, just like with every youtube change we all complain but in the end we still all stay because its the biggest and most known platform
@@user-10021 MySpace will never die, it's far too popular.
@@user-10021 There are so many platforms that died out even though they were as popular as twitch at their time.
Leave to where? CZcams doesn't even have an algorithm for purely streaming, you still have to play the youtube game. You clearly don't know what you're talking about, bud
What's the dif here?
EVERY company does it. CZcams pull stunts like this all the time putting little tidbits here and there to keep more of the revenue a channel brings in until people are making like... 25% of what they made in just 2018 for the same number of subs.
Uber/Lyft continued to drive prices down so much that drivers barely make enough to keep gas in their vehicle, much less all of the other maint. In 2015 drivers could make damn good bank.
It's all about getting performers on the stage, paying the first arrivals huge dividends so the performers hawk the absolute hell out of the platform being used. And, over time, bit by bit, taking away the benefits that the early adopters enjoyED (past tense) while also preventing new performers from getting nearly as much of the slice that THEIR WORK generates.
That's why laws need to be put in place that states a platform/service/third party intermediary cannot take more than 20% of the revenue generated by a performer... be it a streamer, youtube creator, rideshare/gig worker, ect.
they are so pathetic, it's wild to think that Twitch used to be "the go to" streamming platform, and now they are slowly tearing apart their reputation
Before the people who moderate it it was fun.
The people who are drawn to these fake positions of power are the LGBT extremists that are raised by universities.
Sounds like Disney
Well it's definitely not slowly now
When I became an affiliate in march, the ban on simulcasting was in the contract. It isn't something new
I was just about to accept my first StreamElements sponsorship when this all went down. Now it's like, can I even check them without the fear of losing my channel to Twitches silly games 😢
They'll say this now and start rolling out these horrible policies one by one quietly.
Exactly.
I wonder who's to blame for this.
It seems like big companies like CZcams and Twitch can just never be complacent with how things are, no matter how fine it is. They always seem to eventually be more and more anti-user with every change they ever make, regardless of how much justified backlash they get.
My farts are better than Charlie’s farts.
Gays and trans get a whole month but veterans get one single day? What a broken ass country. I'm not gonna stand for it and neither should any of you.
That's the result of capitalism, people in companies have jobs where their sole purpose is to try and find ways to make more money. They will never be satisfied to keep making what they already make, even if it's millions.
That's what happens when you exclusively hire failed wall street bankers because they larp like they care about your mission or some bs, instead of hiring actual experience.
its because both CZcams and Twitch lose money and have only lasted so long because they are propped up by Google and Amazon. The data they gather and the influence it gives them makes it worth it, but CZcams and Twitch by themselves lose money and have done since they were founded.
I think Dr.Mann from interstellar, where he opened that airlock, thats a good way to describe it
In the end, given what is happening to Reddit with their API changes, it appears that Amazon, who owns Twitch, may back down due to the possiiblity of too many big-name streamers leaving. The last thing Amazon wants is streamers leaving for Kick or even Rumble.
Kick offering to cover the $25 fee is such a power move.
Kick on top 💯
This was twitchs way of pulling the old "look, there's a bird" trick and it failed miserably.
*points at Twitter*
my farts are better than Charlie’s farts
@P such a boring comment that you seem fit to keep posting. Go drink some water.
@@mrhades652 it's probably a bot. Drinking water would kill it.
Not really since they got to sneak in those other things like simulcast rules. It might be what all this was about originally. They wanted to put out new eules about simulcasting and all that and so they made an egregious change to distract everyone. So it literally was a "look theres a bird" moment and it was successful as far as they know right now
3:26 it only states that we and third party companies and not allowed to use pre recorded media. I interprite this as, you ARE aloud to get sponsors and have the products available to be seen in your stream. You just have to manually put together your advertising strategy for the live stream.
You CANNOT download pre-made logos for the brand and use them, you will have to make your own.
It's convoluted and vague.
Twitch is like a baby wandering into dangerous situations and the community is like a babysitter trying desperately to keep it from getting hurt.
The fact that everyone is going to brush that off and Twitch are going to get away completely unscathed from this is depressing.
Unless they're turning over a new leaf, that is
@@absoluterainbow not with people being this dumb and forgetting about it
@@absoluterainbow they do this once a week, they're not lol
Most people have already refused to use twitch lmao, they'll just keep chipping away at who's left till they have to beg which won't work and they'll go belly up
I love that 80% of the people cry bout twitch use twitch anyway
So what Twitch is saying is that now BECAUSE they are losing money they're going to backpedal but change absolutely nothing. SMH
My farts are better than Charlie’s farts.
Don't read my name!,,
@IKillAnimalsOnYT kyskyskyskyskyskyskys😂😂😂
Since this video came out I have heard that the reasoning this has happened is because there is a third party ad sponsor going around offering money to streamers in exchange for streamers to show their ads on stream. This would be stopped if the now going to be rewritten policy would go through.
For clarification this service would provide the streamer with ads that you would see currently on Twitch during ad breaks or on CZcams before videos and the streamer can then show them via their streaming software like OBS to "run the ads". In exchange they would get a large sum of money if they take this sponsorship.
I've worked in the Gaming industry for and with the top companies since 2004. I've watched companies go from the hardwork the original creators and teams put together to where gaming is now - the historical innovators of growing the PC industry now being preyed upon by those who bought them out or the investors. They've taken an area of story telling, gameplay and most importantly for gaming's lifeblood - community and searched for ways to monetize and bring in more money while providing less or nothing for the users.
I can already imagine how this policy was thought of. This was the plan of 1 or 2 people with little to no experience in gaming or community management, probably someone who made a rewards program for Capital One - and came up with this plan and presented the numbers with a nice percentage bolded in green on their word documents. If Twitch's corporate behavior has been subsumed by Amazon, then this plan was presented to multiple people in a meeting. At Amazon, before you present, everyone in the meeting has to read the entire document and then they discuss it as a group. Which means this went through many, many, out of touch people looking at the theoretical corporate growth and not the end user reaction. This idea is bankrupt of user experience or expectations.
The PR response was TOO fast, IMO. Which means that the corporate leaders for the Twitch division forced that earlier and rapid response disregarding the PR team's advise for this crisis comms. "You guys just didn't get it." That's a ham fisted response demanded by a Vice President or group of them. This new response is what the original response should've been.
This policy coming out had to have been reviewed by Amazon's communication lead who is probably a VP or Director, they probably oversee Whole Foods, Amazon, Kindle, Twitch, whatever. It was put in front of them, they MAY have tossed this over to someone they trust in the team like another middle manager who just nodded their head and this went out - without approval from the Twitch "Boots on the ground" team.
Twitch's business metrics are forgetting that they aren't selling e-books. They aren't rapidly delivering Squishmallows to McKaeluh. It is a platform grown by its creators and the community that THEY grow. Twitch's hand in amplifying, discoverability and all that might as well be magic. Its the creators who generate success for themselves and in turn, growth for the platform as a whole. They need to sit back, redefine their business goals and determine how they're going to extract value from Twitch in a way that doesn't generate negative response and experience.
For your statement on the people replying to Twitch's backpedaling as "Yay thanks for listening", I agree with you from an emotional POV. But also, when you just crap on a corporations "Good-will" it makes their execs not tread lightly next time. They're just going to see you as "Mouth breathers, angsty neckbeards, and babies". Words I've heard in response to negative feedback when a company tries to be "Nice". They become more isolated in their decisions and will also bury their heads in the sand when a community lead, researcher or data analyst brings them concerns on sentiment for new projects and programs. I think it is beneficial for all streamers to respond with receptive thanks even if they are meaningless, just like Twitch's apology.
i feel like twitch is intentionally giving you the worst case scenario first to give you a shock and dials it back down slowly so they can introduce a policy thats basically on the maximum they can push it, kinda like how negotiators massively increase the price for selling something and slowly reduce their offer so people pay the highest amount their willing to pay..
Yea, dirty tactics
By reducing it step by step now they can more or less increase the prices to the maximum people are willing to give
Kind of like scam sites that sell you something completely overpriced and then scratch that by half to make a "super special deal", whereas the product seems more attractive because it is like 50% off, even tho that might still be more then its worth
That's exactly what they're doing. There's even a name for it. It's called the door-in-the-face technique.
It truly is astonishing how such a godawful platform can stay around for so long without being terminated.
Gays and trans get a whole month but veterans get one single day? What a broken ass country. I'm not gonna stand for it and neither should any of you.
it just doesnt have much strong competition cuz youtube wont make their own proprietary streaming app
they are woke though so the new age NPC's have stayed for so long.
Don't read my name!,,
@@Dont_Read_My_Picture don't suckle my phallus
My guess is they will follow a bunch of other companies and close API access unless you pay/subscribe, killing a lot of apps.
9:00 I'm fairly certain, could be wrong, that they can't charge you for not signing the new agreement if it wasn't in the original contract... the only way they could potentially charge you for termination is if you sign this new contract that contains this agreement.
Like i said in your last video about this. That thing they are doing is a tactic where you propose a outragious idea, get everybody angry and then propose something much less radical. It has being used by the big techs a lot. Now the less outragious idea will be the thing they wanted since the beguining.
Didn't work out well of D&D
my farts are better than Charlie’s farts
Ah yes, the ol’ “door in the face” technique. It’s amazing that people still fall for it just about every time.
Except if they could get away with it they’d be quite happy to get what they originally asked for too.
This is like corporate combination of “it doesn’t hurt to ask” and “it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.” Make a big policy change and hope for the best. If the backlash is small enough just proceed. If people get too upset just say it was a miscommunication and you’re fixing the issue for everyone’s benefit. Oh and a little bit of gaslighting for good measure.
As usual, Charlie knows exactly what’s going on and called it when he said they knew exactly what they were doing when they were like “oh no you misunderstood, must be because the terms were too broad” yet a day later they totally confirmed it by saying “we know that new policy we made will massively impact you by interfering with sponsors, …”
my farts are better than Charlie’s farts
crazy to think of all the streamers who could VERY easily move over to YT but still don't for some reason
What kind of absolutely greedy snake does all of the PR work for Twitch? Everything they’ve been doing for years goes beyond shady and it’s essentially to suck the life from the very people that give life to their platform
Twitch should launch these policy changed on the first of April, so that if they do screw up they can just say, April Fools and safe themselves the embarrassment.
Charlie keeps me up to date on the things that matter. Old men with emotional support alligators or twitch being twitch he covers it all ❤
Five guys
Anyone notice the new Twitch Turbo they implemented to bypass having to Sub to Streamers to get rid of the ads? Don't know how long it has been actually on Twitch just logged in today and saw it.
So some executive came up with that new policy without asking if it will work and now they back peddle