Hard Cast - .45 Colt VS .44 Special - "Big Game" Dangerous Animal Ballistic Test
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- čas přidán 15. 09. 2022
- Testing the Underwood hard cast .44 Special and .45 Colt in a "big game" dangerous animal ballistic test. I use a lot of Clear Ballistics and 1/2" MDF. I chronograph them and do some practical accuracy testing. Both are 255 gr and both are rated at 1,000 FPS. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.com/user?u=5828221
- Sport
My theory as to why the second shot of each caliber arched is as follows; I did a "double" MDF piece in front of the first 16" gel block (as well as at the rear). So instead of 1/4" MDF there was 1/2" MDF made up of two 1/4" pieces. Why this matters, is because the MDF boards are tightly together on shot one but not shot two with each caliber.
So I believe that with shot one with the .44 Special, the bullet just zipped through all the MDF tightly packed, but because I did not squeeze the entire contraption back together and just shot a second shot, the second shot was hitting slightly separated MDF pieces, so exiting the first MDF 1/4" and entering the second MDF 1/4" with a very tiny space between them could cause the second bullet to begin to destabilize and tumble. It doesn't really show this on camera, but there is a difference in how much pressure is applied to the MDF before and after a shot hits it.
I pushed the entire setup back together before I ran the first .45 Colt and it went straight, but just like the .44 Special the second shot with the .45 Colt hit the two 1/4" MDF pieces with some gap between resulting in another tumble. This is just my educated guess on why each second bullet tumbled.
Hey Sam I got a question. I just purchased a Ruger super Alaskan Redhawk 454 causull I plan on hunting with. Yes it's a 3 inch which is fine I wanted a 7.5 but I like the shorter barrel I do want a better site for range to around 100 yards any recommendations
Great test, just shows that terminal ballistics are never a given. That .44 almost duplicates the "Skeeter" load, will do 90% of the jobs a 44mag will do without the recoil and blast. Keep up the good work this channel rocks.
Thanks a lot!
I just bought a Charter Arms Bulldog 44 Special. The only ammo I found in my area is a 240 grain FM flat point at 800 fps per manufacturer. I haven't tried it yet but I hope my Bulldog won't fall apart when firing these loads.
In a hard cast variety, both rounds would be great choices. In my opinion, they would make excellent selection for those who are recoil sensitive when comparing them with the 44 magnum and .357 magnum. This allows the shooter to place follow up shots on target faster.
Great video as usual.
Thank you.
Don't forget those of us who value our eardrums, especially in a ranch or woods gun where you may expect to use it on a semi-regular basis without plugs
This is what I wanted to see, thanks
Thanks for another informative and interesting video. I watch a few other gun centered channels, but I find yours is very well done without unnecessary screwing around and talking. You don't just shoot watermelons. Keep up the good work.
Thanks. I try to keep things clean cut.
That's probably the most energy I've seen out of your Judge in 45 LC. Thanks for the test, you always do a great job.
Thanks. It's a S&W Governor. I have seen 477 and 499 ft lbs from a couple of Buffalo Bore standard pressure loads I have ran.
I watched a recent FBI doc on ballistics and they said that energy in handguns is worthless unless it reaches that 2xxxfps number(can't remember exactly) but they claimed it doesn't matter which caliber you choose so long as you're hitting the depths of 12-18 and you feel comfortable shooting it.
@@bmx7596 I have heard these studies. The problem with them is that they do not mirror reality. I have seen so many actual police shootings where the attacker is barely effected, and it's again and again, a 9mm which does penetrate adequately. Whenever I watch a video where .40 S&W is involved the perp stops with less rounds, when .357 Sig is involved they drop. Watch a few of those videos where people are dropping with .40, then go back to another 9mm video....like 13 shots fired guy won't stop.
Thanks Sam, both did well and would get the job done 👍👍
Some 45 Colt and 44 Spl, me like!
Thank you very much for sharing!
Thanks for watching!
Both of these rounds have always been my favorite carry rounds. .44 Spl in a Rossi M720, and .45 LC in a Charter Arms 74530.
Personally I like 44 spl.
Great video!
I like the hard cast tests in all calibers. For the woods, they are great. They all penetrate deep enough for unhappy bruins.
Another great video. Hopefully your channel continues getting larger.
Thanks
Can't go wrong with either one.
Thanks for the comparison.
Just a fun idea, since you’ve got a bit of a slope there, can you put your steel target on the little trolley and let it run down the hill at you while you’re firing dissimulate a real dangerous animal attack. Just put it on a couple of chocks shoot at it once and then it should roll down at you pretty fast.
Velocity is pretty good for those big bullets from small guns,good sd on those biguns,good test setup.
Nice test! ...thanks for sharing
Much respect to swc.45 colt! First rounds I fired from my Governor and velocity was only around 750 fps and had no issues with 65 ft aiming!
ASmith and wesson model 25 in 45colt is an excellent tool.
A shame I haven't seen one in years. You are right however
Would you consider testing Underwood 250gr XTP 960fps rounds for 45LC sometime? Would love to see how those perform. Thanks for the videos, we all appreciate your thoroughness and attention to detail!!!
Good video. Interesting ammo comparison. Thanks for sharing. Take care.
Thanks. Take care
And people say the judge/governor is a gimmick. Look at heavy 45 colt and what it’s capable of. Now throw in 000 .410 buckshot.
I plan to test the Federal 000 real soon.
Another great video
👍😊 interesting results but I would like to try those specials .
Good job young man
I'd say either would get the job done especially out of a carbine
Pretty hot loads. Either one looks up to the task.
I would purchase some of these .44spl rounds if they were cheaper, but for whatever reason, in my area, .44spl cartridges are more expensive than their .44mag brothers...
I have heard that S&W revolvers that use moon clips come with a heavier DA trigger. Moon clips can vary in diameter, so the heavy trigger pull gives reliable ignition. Similar to why rimfire revolvers have a DA heavy pull.
For the record my 625 in 45 ACP has a heavy DA trigger as well
I think both rounds would work well. Interesting how both performed exactly the same. One shot arching and the other going straight.
I think it's coincidental. If I tested again both of the same caliber might go straight, or both might start to tumble.
'my' bear load ...Ilive in Montana, we have BEARS here, GRIZZLY bears.. 300 grain LEE bullet cast of straight wheel weights, enough H110 to give 1250 fps out of THE RUGER I developed it for... they dont expand much but flop endover end after about 10>12 inches... thats MY idea of GOOD AS IT GETS....
but I can't shoot more than 1 cylinder full these days, they are accurate (10") to at least 50 yards .. years ago I did hit our 500 yd gong 1 out of 4 shots... 2 were so close and 1 we didnt see hit.... ANY handgun is marginal for Grizz. and I've dropped blackies and dropped them with 357... just food for thought....
Thank you for these tests Sam! Have you ever tested 45 lc cowboy rounds in gel from the governor? Mine really shoots well with 250 grain flat point cowboy rounds. I just wonder how they would do for defense against people/ large animals. Right now I've got the last of my 410 federal buck and Hornady 45lc in it.
I have not yet. I was thinking about it, but then when I think about it I know people will go on and on with misinformation that the velocity will be half that of a single action army, so I end up not doing it.
@@GunSam thanks for getting back to me. Reminds me of the manstopper rounds for the old British webley revolvers. A big heavy bullet at 650 fps seemed to tumble and really put down bad guys. (Read some old police shooting reports on the round)
Good video.
It is OK to shoot single action.
Big bore revolvers have a certain amount of torque with a heavy bullet. This may throw your windage off some.
I bet he has shot them before and knows exactly what the load would do
Off topic. Very interesting. Federal’s ‘all new, designed from the ground up for personal defense’ cartridge (30 Super Carry), uses the same bullet as your favorite revolver cartridge: the 327 Federal Magnum. Federal put a 32 caliber revolver bullet into a ‘all new” pistol round. If you can convince a well-off supporter to donate a 30 Super Carry pistol, you could run some very interesting ballistic performance comparisons. (Look at Handloader TV’s YouTude video testing the 30 Super Carry.)
I think if everything was equal the would both preform almost the same . Either one will do
John Linebaugh's family hunts with a single action army 45 colt loaded with a Keith style 260gr semi-wadcutter hard cast at a muzzle velocity of 900fps and he says that even at 100 yards that load will go end to end on a mule deer or pronghorn!!! That 44 special load pretty much duplicates or slightly beats Linebaugh's 45 colt load and with a higher sectional density!!! Your limitation is only your accuracy!!!
I believe you have to add 2 scoups of Kelloggs Raisin Bran and 1 tablespoon of baking soda to the Governor ---- yeah I know --it doesn't make any sense to me either --but it is what it is! And you still do great reviews thanks.
Will 454 Casull chamber a 45 long colt? If so i found my lever action/revolver combination. ?👍💪🔥
Nice 🎥 slso.
How about a test on the Federal 45ACP 230 grain punch ammo using a 3.5 inch barrel.
How about a layer or two of MDF between the two main blocks? Sort of simulate ribs or shoulder on both sides.
I’m going after feral hogs this fall with mid-range.44 magnum loads pushing a 253 grain SWC GC at 1175 fps. I have every confidence it’s plenty, especially after these results.
I have done it with other videos. I filmed this one a month ago, then only 2 weeks ago filmed Extreme Penetrator and did as you suggested, but that video released earlier lol. czcams.com/video/yCBfhDQz6zM/video.html&t
If 44 was shot out of a mag. at a higher velocity how much more penetration do you think you would get ?
Very cool test I don't think there is a wrong choice. I was very surprised with the judge with that velocity that respectable 45 colt velocity and go right through a deer or a 350lb man. It would very interesting to add the 45cap with the same 255he sec. I don't think I have run them that fast but ramshot silhouette can reach those velocities and stay below plus p pressure. I don't cast that bullet anymore but if I can round one up I'll give it a try and let you know
Thanks. It's a S&W Governor. I should test the .45 ACP too, but from my 5" Glock as a lot of the ACP's in the Governor will expand the case outward because of the chamber being too big for ACP and lose pressure and velocity.
Underwood 45 colt + P. AKA, the Yogi killa!
👍
So now that it's been a minute which one you liking to pack out there?
I really don't have to deal with dangerous animals personally.
Great video. You should consider picking yourself up a .45 Colt revolver that looks great as well as shoots better than your S&W. Something akin to the Ruger New Model Blackhawk .45 Colt. It would make your .45 Colt videos that much more entertaining and more comparable. The S&W handicaps the .45 Colt round far too much.
Sam do you have any advice on holsters for a s&w 69 combat(the 2.75”)?
I have never holster shopped for mine. I use my model 686 L frame 4" holster for my model 69. It happens to be a Desantis brand. I have no idea if they make a 2.75", and i'm not sure what other brands and styles there are for a 2.75" model 69. All I can say is that anything that says 686 will also work as the frames are the same. I would probably be using the Midwayusa holster genie looking for model 686 2.75" or 3" if it were me. Edit, here's that holster finder for a 2.75" model 69 www.midwayusa.com/s?cid=20789&Holster%20Fit=Revolver%3ESmith%20%26%20Wesson%3E69%3E2.75%20Inch
@@GunSam thank you
Could there be a density difference in the block? I'm really interested in why there was such a difference in depth
It could be the difference in sectional density of the projectiles. Both weighing the same but the 44 being .429 opposed to .451 if should penetrate deeper(theoretically). Otherwise could be angle of impact causing early destabilization giving higher energy transfer but reduced penetration.
I melt the blocks from one previous block into a liquid. There really wouldn't be differences in density in any one area.
@@GunSam thats what I thought it was just odd that they both did that.. I was hoping you would put a few more rounds in for a better average.. very curious
Are those plus p rounds of not. Thanks in advance for your reply.
No
For practical purposes, they both looked like they were running about the same energy. As for the weird penetration, the ones that went short clearly tumbled. The special that didn't tumble just drilled through. I think the colt that penetrated deeply was just too close to the bottom edge of the blocks. I think I would want something running closer to 1000fps for dangerous game. Although in a hunting scenario, I would be going with a longer barrel. Concealment and fast draws are not really a factor in hunting, I wouldn't think. With my eyes, I would also be running a scope on the gun.
Exactly lol. People often think energy VS energy matter HUGE on all cartridges. I don't recall energy numbers (too lazy to scroll up and play) but it was something like a 50 FPE difference. Sure, in a .22 in a handgun, that's the difference between a LR and a Magnum, and a difference of adequate and NOT adequate. But once you are hitting .44-.45 caliber, all really powerful, the 50 FPE means nearly nothing.
@@GunSam Indeed. Both of those rounds would deliver a decidable thump. I would be going with the 44 Special because I have a 44 Magnum pistol. So actually I would probably go with a 44 Magnum because I already have one! LOL. I know it's really only a 0.429" bullet. You know how gun companies are. But that little extra length is going to deliver the extra sectional density you mentioned. It is also more likely to tumble, I think. But that would take further testing to find out. The diameter difference is very small.
I wonder if someone would come up with a dangerous game bullet that is a solid like the LSWC design, but the front is a soft alloy welded onto a harder alloy in the rear? Or perhaps the semi-jacket design achieves the same thing at a lower cost. The gas checks are good for protection from fire. But a harder bearing surface can allow spinning up a bullet faster without fouling. Maybe.
I always hate when the bear out guns me.
25 ACP can kill a man, but would I prefer it for self protection? No. 45 colt can dispatch a grizzly bear but would I use it for self protection vs bears?
Hi Sam, is the Governor rated for +p loads?
Only the .45 ACP+P is okay to run in the Governor. The .45 Colt+P are too hot. Not that I think it would explode, but seeing that .45 Colt+P is not SAAMI, S&W will not rate it for .45 Colt+P. My common sense says that seeing .45 Colt+P is essentially .44 Magnum, and the frame is scandium alloy and the chamber walls are thin, it's a really bad idea to run .45 Colt+P.
Thanks.
Just my opinion but .44 Special doesn't get the attention it deserves. As always good work on the vid.
Thanks Buffalo. It's a great cartridge that somehow got left behind in attention.
Heavy Metal
I did a test of Crit Duty for the 16" 9mm they expanded to 15mm / a hair over 9/16" they didn't go as deep as the Blem SIG ammo . It did blow up the first 2 jugs & stop in #3 . The SIG went about 1/2" into a wood after the 3rd jug , didn't blow up any jugs . 4 layers of towel .
the Crit duty was 1,145 FPS from the 16" , Sam got 1,094 from his 5" , same lot # .
If only these were available when Cabela's Dangerous Hunts came out back in 2003. They might have saved my bacon.
I had no idea that was a thing lol. Edit-Looked it up, thought it was literally hunting. It's a game haha. I feel like I may have played that back in the day when PC game demo downloads were big lol
If you live where over penetration isnt a concern, I think theyed be very adequate for home defense.
Unfair comparison. First. I have a S&W 45 Colt Mountain revolver, which throws my 255 cast swc at over 900 fps. I also have a New Ruger Flat Top5 1/2 45 Colt which will throw the same slug at over 1000 fps, I would carry either over the two revolvers you tested
The problem I have with your comment, is under some initial testing and comparisons with other ammo like Buffalo Bore, they have basically the same ammo and variations of it. I know one in fact was rated at 983 FPS from a 4" mountain revolver, actual ratings based on their own testing. My Governor gave me 999 FPS average. Now explain yourself...and go...
Buffalo Bore I have choreographed in 38, 357 were consistent with their published data for barrel length . Hard to duplicate their plus p loads. My experience reloading reloading defense and Cowboy loads for 45 Colt has shown pretty consistent increase in velocity from 4 3/4 to 5 1/2 barrel.
I have never seen a box of 44 spl in my life. I’d rather just take the 44 mag. If it hurts then I’ll consider reloading or I’ll hit the gym.
In
Hwha
The rounds that won the west.
I would break-in that Taurus with some snap caps.
Not sure I'd want to shoot that ammo outta my Cimmaron model P
It's a Smith and Wesson
The sheer disrespect in calling a S&W A Taurus has me laughing. Can't have shit in Detroit.
S&W's rendition of the Judge? ZOINKS
@@Rampant_Colt yeah it's the S&W Governor. Been out probably 10 years or more.
@@GunSam
I can imagine it having a heavy trigger pull with that large cylinder full of 255gr .44s and .45s. Still try using some snap caps, it can only help
45colt is actually easier to find in my neck of the woods atleast...
now for my 10 cents worth.either one of these pistols loaded with any hardcast bullets and of 18 brinnel hardnessfactor at 850-950 fps range is very good choices for all the way to black bears as for self defense only. only the king of fools intentionally hunts game that would eat you with a pistol. a pistol is a short barreled,short stocked,under powered rifle at best. they have successfully taken
Try Buffalo Bore Heavy 45 LC +p 300 grain then compare 😂