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I'm Leaving Vim
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- čas přidán 17. 09. 2023
- Today I talk about why I'm going to stop using vim.
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Bro you just need to make more room in your head for vims keybindings, try forgetting some childhood memories
😂😂😂
😂😭
😂😂😂😂
😅😅😅,,
Instructions unclear. I now have amnesia.
I am positive I will get 100 asks for this, would it be okay if I react to this?
Sure
@@TheLinuxCastthank you very much. I wanted to make sure that I ask first. I'll wait for at least a week before I release the reaction to this.
@@ThePrimeTimeagen Why, that'll only get you the 100 asks. 😆
Man, editing without vim feels like stopping your car on the highway and walking.
Vim didn't fail! You didn't have faith in vim! The Bible teaches us that if you had faith the size of mustard seed in vim, you can debug Windows me in a day.
I just installed a new operating system and used nano until Vim was installed (forgot Vi was on the system). And it was slow and I didn't like to work with it in any way. I will only use Vim and Vi family of editors to do text editing for the rest of my life. The only other editor I would consider switching to is probably Emacs, but that won't happen anytime soon.
It is understandable that there is a separation with neo/vim as a text editor that you enjoy vs having to use it full time while learning to program. I am a hobbyist wood worker and I enjoy using hand tools, however if I had a large project to do I would probably fall back to using power tools for much of the work because I am not as skilled at making great cuts with manual tools. The mental energy I would need to engage would make the project unnecessarily difficult and frustrating so I use tools that do not require as much overhead to get good results. I use neovim full time as a web developer and have had a lot of time to get used to it and how it falls into my work flow. In fact it does not just fit into my workflow, it completely shapes it. I have tried using other IDEs or text editors even with 'vim support' and I always go back to neovim. You like neo/vim as a hobbiest but right now it gets in the way of your project so you are using a tool that does not get in the way, and that is perfectly valid.
Vim as a text editor vs an IDE are definitely two different paradigms. It definitely took a long time for me to get it to be daily driver worthy.
Vim or neovim? It's pretty easy with preconfigured configs or just plugins that are super easy to get
@@anandmahamuni5442 Neovim locally, but Vim server side when needed.
@@anandmahamuni5442 you are right as long as we talk about Vim it is just an editor, but Nvim make Emacs look like a kids toy, in my Nvim config i can edit C# projects better then with visual stadio, and go, rust, php, js and anything else i use, better then JetBrains tools.
we need games, we got it, or email client check, or git, or orgmode/neorg mode.
Nvim is something a lot bigger then a IDE, and it still start up in 500ms with all of this.
Nvim is prove that god don't exists as it is so unfair to all other editors and IDEs.
A team of 50 devs work day in and out on VSCode and still is nothing to Nvim.
if Matt had the time, all of he's problems can be fix with a little lua.
Helix is a vim like modal editor that comes with code-completion and tree-sitter for various languages pre-installed
The built-in command picker is really great for learning too
And all this is native (and BLAZINGLY FAST, of course)
But going to Helix from Vim is like trying to ride a bycicle backwards
And its written in Rust which means its really cool
@@allhasreadI dont think this, if you know vim then helix is very intuitive
To save the colour theme in Kate, you need to go to settings -> configure Kate, then select the theme and click Save.
Whatever works for you man! Developing is something very personal IMO. Good luck learning and developing.
I cannot agree with this take at all. A bad tool/workflow used well can only get you so far and you are probably learning bad habits and crutches along the way that might not be easy to unlearn. If you are a hobbyist, and aren't beholden to a financial obligation it doesn't matter if you are wasting time or not. If you have other peoples resources involved and you waste time using bad tools... then it is not just you on the loosing end of opportunity costs.
@@hooflung128Yeah you are right on the group mentality, but that is also part of the journey. If you don't adapt to the group you will eventually get fired and will think about your choices.
Failing is also part of the journey.
I don't think he even writes code
I thought he was talking about find an IDE to code nowadays.@@BeansEnjoyer911
Thanks for sharing about your coding journey that is awesome! No need to apologize to anyone for anything!! Part of the fun is discovering new things and learning what works well for the task at hand. The last thing you want is to be fighting with a tool while learning, let alone trying to just get stuff done. Keep up the good work.
I think you forgot when April 1st was. (I have yet to watch but seeing the title left me baffled)
I can totally understand the feeling, that vim doesn't work in the desired way. Yes, vim ca be everything. There is nothing you can't do with vim. Except from making coffee 😉 But, you have to think about the time you need to configure vim in the right way. From a economic point of view it is much more effective to use a tool, that is already configured than configuring vim by yourself. I also use vim only for writing and changing configuration files. When I look back how long it took to learn all this stuff. I sometome ask myself why did I do this. The answer is clear. Vim is cool. But if you don't have time to configure and learn an tool which is not complete or pre-configured overwhelming, choose the best for you. So, don't be sad. Live is journey. Sometimes is time to leave things behind.
I feel you. Don't be so hard on yourself because you're "leaving" vim. vi is much more of a concept than a tool, currently. Proof of that is that Kate, among many others, adopt vi motion.
What you're going through is evolution. You're deciding to change your sneakers in favor of a continued journey. Honorable, and clever. I'm gonna say somethings that contribute to my understanding that you're far from being wrong and shouldn't be sad. To facilitate that, I'll enumerate them.
1. I've learned a lot from your comments and even how you complement them with hand gestures, like the other day when you imitated, with your hand, arch users babbling at the back of your head "hey, we have AUR hahaha", and you made a facial expression that clearly transmitted "yeah, yeah, I hear this every minute, go on...". Why did I pay attention to this, and bring it here? Because this expressly communicates that you are awere of the social context, And why does it matter? Because of what I said about vi being much more of a concept;
2. The reason I've learned so much from you is exactly because you have a background in history, and not in SW development or whatever. That allows you to have a more broad vision of whatever the matter is. Just like you said in your vídeo, your moving along - that's how history happens, Matt;
3. Every time I hear you (and many others) say you use this or that for so long, like, 3, 6 years, I get the giggles, not in a disrespectful way, because I understand that, by current standards, 3 years of something IS a long time. However, I should mention that vi (the concept behind it) exists for much longer than that, as you probably know. It comes from a time when keyboards weren't standardized, many of them didn't even have arrow keys, and were attached to dumb terminals (which Linux still supports today), and is where vi/vim really shine, discussed on the next and final topic;
4) vi can be used on your desktop but where it really shines as a tool is in a SSH session. Many of us know the internet is *nix based and those servers run tightly supported by many conventions, one of them is not to have a graphical UI to the administrator. Why is that? efficiency over efficacy. I'm not going into that here because I'm sure, having seen how you pursue efficient through a keyboard centric interaction, tiling windows management, 19 workspaces, and, especially, this last move towards Kate (arrghh - kidding);
So... you're not "leaving" vi. You're just starting to walk a path in which vi may not be the more appropriate tool, but that doesn't mean you'll get rid of it, or from it. You'll be using vi every time you press h, j, k, l hahaha. vi/vim is and will always be on our hearts, minds, AND fingertips !
One last thing: when you say you're not a developer, I hear it as "not a SW developer", because, oh boy, you're sure a developer. You may not be a --programmer--, but surely, a developer, in the sense of a person who builds uppon an idea, be it original or borrowed.
Just so you know, I use Linux for more than 15 years now, prior to that, FreeBSD and MacOS, and sure, Windows (I've lived out exclusively from DOS/Windows based development for more than 20 years) and I learn a lot from you. So much that, currently, I'm battling to install Qtile on my daily driver, which is, off course, Debian, but, sure enough, I'm considering to have a look at Open Suse hahaha. I'll be damned hahaha.
You're on the right track (because there's no right track, Matt, just make sure you stay away from illicits and you're fine).
Pinsard - Brasil
Hmm.
_Someone_ needs to reevaluate what they're doing with their one life…
Afaik the situation with VSCode is kinda weird. the source code is open, as in I think you can compile it yourself (I think that's what VSCodium is) but the actual exe file that you download itself is not open. Idk why how even how that work tho
It's the same thing with chromium and Google chrome. Code may be open source, but the binaries that Microsoft distributes and that most people download have Microsoft telemetry added. VS Codium strips M$ telemetry and ships it.
So the actual vscode part of vscode is open source but the binary you get from microsoft has a bunch of telemetry spyware bullcrap compiled into it. Thats how it works
I'm really liking the Micro editor for the terminal. It's written in Go, its minimal, has full mouse support, multiple cursors, terminal emulator, and plugins. It has all the normal key bindings that you would expect (Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V), but it has upcoming VIM bindings for all if you VIM people :D
I personally don't use text editor for anything else than coding. And I still prefer nvim. I have exposure to other editors like intelliJ in school, vscode (when helping friends), and still nvim feels better for me. One thing I like about it, not much people appreciate I think is how easy it is to run. All my work is in terminal, so I don't have to exit it to use editor, I can just do some coding, Then I see I need to edit this line in other file, so I open another terminal with nvim, edit it and close. This takes x seconds, doing this in other editors is not really that easy, but if I just do similar thing, it would still take like 3 times longer (finding cursor included). It seems like not that different, but it takes task like changing some code from being "I did something" to "just basic fast task" it that makes sense.
Vim to me is like that one gf that did things differently, you either like it or don’t, but after you leave her (vim), you realise you take the good with the bad if you want that “pleasurable experience”
Bruh😆🤦♂️
I use nano btw😅
Nano? true chad right here....
notepad and nano users are either noob... or true chads....
@@vaisakhkm783 I’ll take noob, coz chads are gay🤣👍
In this place, he's a true Chad for ever having a gf, not to mention 2+ as his comment implies. 🤯
Never be embarrassed by your code. Code will never be perfect and if you're not finding better ways to do things, you're not learning. Maybe someone can help you along if they see where you are.
I'm sort of coming from the other end. Essentially I'm learning neovim so I can keep up on the vim motions and if I'm ever working on someone's machine that has just vim, I won't be lost. So I'm using vanilla nvim. once I get the motions back into muscle memory, I'm going to try to learn Lua and see if I update my config.
I'm in the same boat. Liked Vim and customized a ton of it before learning to code. After that I too struggled more or less with it until having to finally give up on it. I'd say it's good to be objective and honest to yourself what works best for you. Sounds you gave Vim a fair chance.
Honestly, I was having a very similar issue. The only way I got over that was building my own neovim config from the ground up. I followed josean's youtube video he just recently dropped on his channel. In it, he goes through his neovim, essentially undoing delete's, but he explains it line by line. About half way through the video i felt like i actually understood what was going on with lua, and the neovim config, how it was working. what each plugin did etc. I went from being like "yea i have harpoon, but don't really understand it and why it exists", to "these are the plugins i have in my neovim config, and here is why". I absolutely love it. Keep in mind, I am not a soft dev,. I am very much a noob, who is trying to get his first job in some sort of dev ops or sys admin role somewhere.
Good luck Matty. It's always good to evolve and adapt, which also includes switching the tools when needed. And in your case, it makes sense if you didn't like working with Vim to code.
I don't like the snippet system that Kate offers in the settings. Have you found a better way ot dealing with code snippets?
Hey! I bet you'll get it eventually, just don't give up. Is true configuring nvim can be challenging, and it can be stressful if you need it to work.
But you can see it as a DIY project at home. Eventually, you'll get the hang of it, and when you reach the point where your nvim tools are fine-tuned to your workflow, the reward is awesome, you won't look back. I bet you experienced the same feeling when you finally got your desktop environment configured to your liking. But I also bet that it wasn't easy at first when you were a Linux newbie.
Man i felt this. Im going through something similar but basically in reverse. As a developer coming from 5 years of vscode and 5 years of netbeans before that, coding in neovim has been really tough. I can really see how productive it COULD be for my workflow, but ive spent two weeks banging my head against a wall trying to figure the keybindings and commands out. Just today I wanted to rename a variable in a particularly long file. I know vim has a find and replace all function, but i really just needed to get it done quickly so I opened the project in vscode to do it instead. I still cant use vim as my daily driver for that reason. Ive probably lost like 4 hours of production in the last two weeks because i was trying to learn vim when i shouldve been fixing my code lol. Im hoping that 4 will be less in the next two weeks and i can keep that a trend xD
Have you tried helix? Its like nvim in a lot of ways, but much simpler.
I'm sure I've said it before, but I've tried Kate numerous times over the years, and I just couldn't get used to using a mouse to do everything or to use alternative key combos that are more verbose than what I use in Vim. And I don't know if there's a setting somewhere, but it doesn't go back into "vi-mode" between uses for me. Maybe you just have to get used to it, but I'm already used to Vim and I do use it for code editing and then some, as well as have a bunch of my own personal bindings. Also, one thing that really chaps my hide is cursor wrapping, where Kate refuses to wrap the cursor at the end of a line no matter what I do. If there's a setting somewhere then great, I'll give it another shot, but otherwise, nope.
You can use an IDE for development, but still continue to use Vim for everything else. Why do you feel that you need to "leave" Vim altoghether?
That's really an interesting experience; I would have never expected that from someone so well versed in VIM motions. Good luck in your journey -- subscribed.
I know it sometimes feels like you are a beginner but thats actually a good sign. The better you get at programming the more you see how many possibilities exist out there to solve coding problems. So you have to review yourself once a week and write down what you have learned. That will show you that you are actually pretty good!
I am now developing since 2016 and I also had phases where I thought that I am completely beginner but thats ok and normal to proceed in your own pace. You should not make the mistake and compare yourself with more experienced devs because everyone has a different starting point. Some started programming when they where 12 and some when they where 19 like me in 2016.
I really like Sublime text 4. It is proprietary, but it's just too good and I've been using it for a long time. It's minimal, pretty lightweight and super beautiful.
My go-to as well. Or nano when needed.
Give lite xl a try
Professional Python / JS / React developer here. I didn't configure my nvim that much, but I've been using nvim + tmux for like 7 years now professionally without any issue: writing code, debugging, testing, refactoring, code collaboration etc. From your video I don't quite understand what issues you're facing with vim that stop you from learning / coding.
I tried kate, but stopped because it was clear support would be an issue. I looked at the old bugs and asked about some of them, the response was "that issue doesn't interest me and I'm a volunteer." Even if the issue could be solved if worked on for a few hours a week, in a month or two... the issue will sit for years. I know this is an issue for nearly every foss project, but imagine being on the receiving end the only solution is to switch projects.
You just got a reaction vid from ThePrimeTime. :)
I made the same decicision seven months ago - and I am satisfied. Just usinf Linux on all computers, so I don't need an alternative to Kate. My private opinion. I tried EMACS as well, but it is the same case for me: Too much to learn, that I don't need for my writing, coding is not a large part of my writing at all.
IT'S NOT APRIL 1ST ⁉
I've been in the same boat. VS Code and the other purpose built IDEs are actually really good for coding and I would totally recommend them to newbs. But they are heavy and bloated and they suck for non-coding and pure writing workflows. Neovim and Emacs can do both coding and pure writing really, really well but they require complex configurations. The pre-built configs like Doom Emacs and NvChad help, but I hate not fully understanding them and they introduce features that I don't really need. I want to build my own config (that does just what I want and nothing else) but that requires an investment on my part. I've settled on Doom Emacs for the short term and doing my own Emacs config in the long term. Emacs won because it has a proper GUI that can display different sized fonts and multiple frames (if requested).. TRAMP is really useful, and Org mode might be the perfect note taking system. Even once this is all working to my satisfaction, I will probably still use IDEs with Vim keybindings in those cases where they outperform Emacs
Is _Kate_ some kind of reduced _VSCodium_ with less plugins available, more plugins pre-installed, and no Zen mode?
I can't find at least *one* thing _Kate_ do that _VSCodium_ don't.
Does it execute faster?
at the end of the day, vim is just a tool (i can't believe I just said that) - but really use what works best for you. More power to you, and whatever eases your passage with learning. Keep grinding!
I use vim almost exclusively for analyzing log files. I have not found a better tool.
Hi,
I've been watching your videos a ton lately, and am thankful for all your content.
One think that I have been wondering is: You said you are a writer by trade and that you use vim to edit articles.
And just cannot comprehend. How can text editors ever replace the functionality of a fully blown word processor, like LibreOffice or let's say OnlyOffice?
How do you write articles with all the formatting in a text editor? How do you cooperate with partners, add comments, track changes?
For coding I use text editors myself, but writing?
I have to write a lot myself for work and this has really puzzled me.
I had to learn vim for professional work troubleshooting server issues, but I always preferred nano when I could get away with it, I just need a quick dirty text editor for reviewing logs and basic text editing. As far as a replacement for windows notepad, kate is great. lol
Matt, what do you mean when you say "Vim movements" to move around text? Are you referring to commands, key combinations, or what?
I've recently decided to learn coding, also! I'm installing Kate (based on your recomendation) as I haven't been happy with Geany. I've done Basic, HTML, C++, C#, and dabbled in Java. But, my goal this time is Rust. I'm curious what are your feelings about that language?
By Vim movements (Vim calls them motions) he means you can hit 'w' to go to beginning of the next word, 'e' to go to the end of the next word, 'b' and 'ge' both backwards by words. You can couple these motion commands with verbs like 'd' for delete, 'c' for change, etc.. So 'dw' means delete everything from the current location to the beginning of the next word. You can also couple these command-motion combinations with numeric arguments to specify how many times they should be executed. You can also specify text objects like so: 'cas'. means change a sentence. 'ca(' means change everything within parentheses. It's a game changing paradigm. No reaching for ctrl and alt keys. You just need to hit ESC to enter normal mode where these commands/motions take effect, and then when you're ready to enter text again, you hit 'i' to go into insert mode.
The relation between Vs code and Vs codium is the same relation between chrome and chromium.
Kate is a solid choice, though, you might want to try Lite-XL 🤔
Yeah when it comes to learning development, a standard IDE or other graphical development tool with some vim motion plugin/integration has got to be the best bet. I treat vim as purely a text editor, but development has many other things beside just writing the code. Getting to know command line tools for debugging, building, executing the code you've written, and have it seamless flow through your workflow isn't ideal when just starting out. But as you do more of it and learn more, you'll regain the magic of staying entirely in the terminal.
For now though, just having vim motions is pretty much good enough. Can't imagine not having access to vim motions while editing text nowadays.
I am like you although I was a developer before I retired. I use an IDE with a Vim plugin for coding. I use Vim daily for other things. So you are really not leaving Vim entirely with the plugin. Over the last several years, we were required to use the IDE that management gave us, so the plugin was my workaround. Don't feel bad about that. Use what makes you the most productive. They are just tools.
Did you give a try at helix ?
not sure if you PO'd the youtube gods but they haven't been recommending your vids to me for a few weeks now. I had to search for you to make sure you're still active, glad to see you are. Hope this was just my experience and not for anyone else.
You may end up having to turn on notifications. CZcams is weird sometimes.
I love using helix for coding. I'll use vim if I need to edit a text file.
personally I use VS code because of the caret animations and because its just simple to use and understand, and works well enough, I don't really mind the fact that its proprietary honestly.
also what icon pack is that?
It’s a great idea to head out and use as many different editors as you can. Whatever you find is the right tool for the job is. I currently use helix after years of vim, because managing plugins became a pain. I hope you learn a ton from using Kate!
Nice another Helix enjoyer
5:35 And this is the *only* good way to use it. Installing big packages without knowing what is inside make learning the basics much slower and tedious. Only install granular things *lazyly* as you need them. Never fall to the illusion it will be easier by installing a lot in advance.
The simple explanation about VS Code is that it's basically another "open core" type of project. In other words, it's all open source in it's base, the eventual built that is normally distributed from it contains proprietary additions to it, and a EULA style license.
However, in the same way browsers like Brave relate to Chromium, in that way we have VS Codium in the case of VS Code. The telemetry mess is entirely stripped from it, you'll just have the clean thing. So that's not the problem and all great. I like it.
However, due to this fact you'll not automatically get all features and you'll not be able to use to the microsoft Marketplace without tweaks. It will come with the Open VSX instead, which is independent and the idea is great, but several extensions are missing there.
But of course this is where the AUR comes into the game with the needed tweaks to get things working. Although it's good to know MS terms officially only allow their own version to be used. But some debate about this still continues today.
Vim is hard to setup for realistic programming, my personal neovim config is 6,000+ lines of lua. And even I hate maintaining it.
What do I mean by "realistic programming", well I work in embedded systems, so remote debugging, local process attach debugging, and regular ol' debugging is an absolute must, and it is a pain in the ass and not even that good in neovim/vim. Honestly these days I just debug in VsCode, because I have code to write and bugs to solve, I can't spend all my time hacking around on my Vim config for the sake of using Vim. Use the right tool for the job.
even in vim there are better ways to move around, like jumping plugins. moving around with hjkl is just a nostalgic gimmick due to Bill Joy using a compact terminal without arrow keys, I bet Bill Joy would've love to have those.
Vim + tmux is the jam use ide as backup. But python spaces can be a pain
Doom Emacs with Vim keybindings (EVIL mode) and config ":lang python" would be my choice.
Did you see that ThePrimeagen (on Twitch) did a whole stream based off this video today? Good video, btw..
Yup I watched it live
Where can I watch it?
The most recent video on twitch.tv/theprimeagen/videos seems to be from 2 months ago...?
@@exnihilonihilfit6316 the reaction will eventually make it's way to his reacts channel here on youtube (ThePrimeTime)
Hey man, just because you can hammer a nail through 2 pieces of wood, with a very high quality hammer, does not give you the skills of a carpenter. No tool is going to do that for you. The hard work of learning the skills of carpentry AND the use of associated tools is the only way.
I'm saying this as a fellow noob python coder, because though I know the very basic basics, I can't seem to get it to do anything very useful.
I played with it and wrote a few unit conversion programs, a button panel with tkinter, that's about it.
I've all but abandoned that pursuit, at least thus far.
With Kate, do you still use only the keyboard or do you use more the mouse?
With the vi mode, I can use the keyboard and it has shortcuts for everything else. I'm still working on using the mouse less. It's been a real challenge.
In my world, I learned vi back when I was freelancing in the early 90s - mostly then on Un*x boxes, so you used what they had. vi was such a bitch to learn that I've never wanted to go through that pain again, so have stuck with it as vim/gvim even on Windoze boxes, when paid enough to do that.
You mentioned Lisp briefly, and I think in the 90s before I was corrupted by the vi-world on *nx, I used to use an editor on Windoze called 'Brief' which was entirely script-able in Lisp. Can't even remember how to do anything useful in that anymore - been 30 yrs-ish.
Geany is also very good and very fast with large files. Not sure about VIM movements though.
You brought up a good point and i think how you discussed this was very professional. Firstly I don't blame you, and am in the same boat as you. Im a scripter not a developer. I really never got to the level of proficiency with vim and always wanted to say is it worth to learn for what i want to do. No. I have been using VScode, but have moved to Kate. Kate satisfies my need. If i decide to use the terminal, which is more often, i use mc with nano.
The only scripting I do is for automation and maintenance such as backup, cleanup, anti virus, save configuration, and misc tasks.
Good Video. Its very real!!!! Cheers
You should cover opensuse new distro flavor Slowroll. It's tumbleweed but with a little buffer for more stability because tumbleweed is to fast but leap is too slow, slowroll is like going to be a month or two slower than tumbleweed.
Is that what they are going to replace Leap with? I heard they are discontinuing Leap soon.
@@folksurvivalBrodie Robertson says no
@@folksurvival They are not replacing leap. They are still planning for the next leap version. This is for people who want a more stable version of opensuse without being extremely outdated.
Use what feels better for what you are doing. No one program, not even vim is the Best tool for every job. I also use a graphical editor for coding and nvchad for configurations and terminal based stuff. There's no point in overwelming yourself when trying to learn sonething new.
Hi,
Did you try Doom Emacs ?
0:22 No... kakonne editor has best movements .
but i am never going to use it...
Matt, it's great to hear you're doing more coding. Thanks for showing us the Kate editor!
Welcome to the Kate........ Mantra is.... gui is gud ... Kate R yer fren. It has improved my skills.
The biggest pro to vscode is going to be complete neovim integration.
not emulation/simulation-- integration. That's pretty huge, especially if you're used to some of the less common keybinds in vim like CTRL-N for completion or some weird z= for autocorrect or something, idk.
But yeah, I'd say if you're really feeling that sluggishness which comes with using a text editor without true vim bindings, then vscode really is ur best bet.
oh and of course, Helix, is great apparently.
I also started developing JavaScript, TypeScript and Rust project with VSCode, later I figured my neovim config and switched to neovim for those languages again.
Also, good luck on your programming journey!
I came here from watching Prime's reaction to your video. Huge thumbs up for this video, you raise some really important points about the approachability and usability of software. Coding is tough enough without having to figure out how build your environment at the same time. Kudos for learning to code -- enjoy the journey! /subscribed.
Can you make a comparison between kate and lite xl?
Oh, there are IDEs for python, such as Thonny, and many others, that can help you understand what the code you write is doing. Yet still the hard work must be done.
Use the tool that works I always say. I might go try out a graphical editor too. I've been using nvim for about a year, but the vim motions just don't click for me.
You sound like a good candidate for helix.
Vim out of the box is terrible for sure. imo it should come preconfigured with syntax highlighting and working lsp, at least for every language included in the OS. It should have line numbers on by default too, as well as different cursor states for normal and insert mode. Sensible defaults.
With that said, if you are looking to do serious coding and not make edits or write simple scripts, then there is no reason not to install a Neovim distro with everything working out of the box. Regular Vim is great as a system default, and it's good enough for that.
Welcome to programming! Have fun and continue being curious. Your reasons for using Kate are completely understandable and I would argue that you are a lot less likely to outgrow it than you might think.
Fair. When I have a GUI on the system, I use Kate or Obsidian. When I don't have a GUI on the system (like when I'm working on a server), I use VIM.
TBH, for all the shell scripting I've done on servers, I've never needed anything more than VIM. Granted, my shell scripts are "legendary horrendous" but they get the task done. lol
I have to suggest you 5 distros to show us:
1. Slitaz - stable rolling minimal as none
2. Macaroni os - binary made gentoo based on funtoo
3. Crowz - devuan fast as wind with calamares and lightweight
4. vxlinux - void linux qt for lazy people
5. joborun linux - arch as it used to be 10 years ago...
Sometimes there's hype about how great something is, and a lot of people believe the hype, many of whom haven't actually experienced the hyped benefits but believe that if they put in the time they would. In computers, this would be vim and CLI. In real life the examples would be mindfulness meditation and yoga.
I've tried many of them, but the only thing that made Neovim useful to me was writing my own config.
I'm not programmer and developer, I use emacs for almost of my writing.
Please, Matt give us a list of all the languages and if you got settings you need, as for some of us it take 20 mins to make a config for you with the plugins you need and some comments to get you going(you can delete them we know you hate comments), and the link for the plugins.
Nvim is in your blood, dont go to the dark side.
It was 100% the correct move to move on from Vim for now. Your brain is already handling too much new information for you to waste time fighting your editor. You can try Vim once again once you're more comfortable coding.
For a moment there I thought he was going to troll us and say he's leaving vim for neovim
I was force to learn vi 25 years ago working as unix and Linux system admin and have to used vi because that what was install on the server when I need to edit config files. If not have to learn text editor for work. just pick the best tool for the job and you.
I used linux for 18 years now, and never have I even bothered with vim, or vi. it was always nano or pico lol.
Allow me to give you an advice: don't look for features or tools you think you need. This is the paradigm switch we (neo)vim users have to do. Look instead for your needs. What would make you more efficient in doing task xyz? You spot it, and then you find out how to tell vim to do for you. And think about a good and easy to remember keyboard shortcut.
Repeat this process N times and you'll have the best tool you can think of. This is Viana its power. Vim motions are great, but that's only the beginning.
Bonus advice: think twice before installing a new plug-in.
I can understand how difficult it may be for you. If I were you, I would start with the lsp-zero plugin and the minimum configuration needed to start coding. From there, you can start searching for specific things you need. Good Luck!
Yeah, I still use vim but even with lsp-zero, lsp is simply bad in Neovim, huge step back from VScode.
It's good enough to make projects with, but there are tons of incorrect entries, wrong guesses, it sometimes pops up in the wrong place, etc. Minor issues that really add up and leave a janky experience. It's one of the only things that I wish Neovim would have, that and the ability to customize gui elements like in emacs.
@@s1nistr433 Do you think so? That's definitely not my experience with it. Maybe you need to check your on_attach functions more and see what's going on and if you have any other plugins making calls at the same time causing lsp-zero to do something wrong. On the other hand, lsp-zero is just a plugin, you can make your own lsp and it's not even hard.
@TheLinuxCast I’m a dev and I consider myself moderately skilled with nvim. If you want to hit me up I’d be happy to give you a hand with dialing in your config. Maybe we can get it to something that works for you. Also if you want some help learning to code I’d also be happy to help you out.
Great vid! I love Emacs but if I chose to leave it would definitely be Kate! Love KDE and their projects.
Man you really need to stop talking down on yourself. There is no 100% in what we do, there is only continous learning, and as things change rapidly - the more you know, the harder it get to stay updated with everything. Peace!
i've been programming for 10 years and i use nvim daily, my config is around 500 lines of lua
Hey man I wish you the best of luck. I totally understand wanting to use a gui getting started with programming. Don't think of this as leaving vim but more as taking a break! You'll circle back after you know what you want from vim.
I use Vim (without keybindings or any type of custom configuration) and GCC while I’m learning the C programming language. I wanted to learn how experienced programmers learned back in the day.
When it comes to python I either use an IDE or Vim and run programs with Python in the terminal.
I hope you're using a virtual machine!
@@siphil0 I’ll be fine, anyways I’m not doing anything extreme yet and I don’t mind reinstalling Linux. (I would probably swap to Debian if I truly borked my installation and I would run VM’s for different purposes.)
I am really a beginner so I’m not doing anything complex, I’m learning C and Python. (Hopefully Rust and x86-64 ASM in the future.)
All of your Discord links seem to be no bueno (expired/invalid)... .. .
Anything older than a few weeks will have an old invite. We had a spam run and I had to yoink them. I have a solution but it isn't up yet. Here's a link that should work. discord.gg/2FYzxfP4
@@TheLinuxCast Thanks for that valid link, it worked! (it will not let me message or add you though :O )
Kate FTW
I really like vim-style editors and use them daily, but never use (n)vim for developing anything more complex than a one-file script. I understand completely.
disclaimer: I'm a professional developer
regular vim with ctags, custom config & color scheme FTW. Then you do plugins once you find your flow.