C-Betting OOP Poker Quiz & Answers (100% Free)
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- The OOP C-Betting Quiz tests your knowledge of continuation betting as the preflop raiser. We'll break down the entire quiz and layout the best answers for each poker hand so you can feel more confident pulling the trigger when out of position.
START BY TAKING THE QUIZ: Put your CB-ing skills to the test before watching this video: redchippoker.com/take/oop-cb-...
So many players take continuation betting for granted. They tend to either always CB OR only CB with strong hands. Both strategies can be easily exploited - forcing us to think deeper about our flop lines when we are the preflop aggressor. This is even more crucial in spots that may seem mundane.
This quiz tests your skills when you open from the SB preflop, get called by the BB, and are first to act on the flop. Hand types include flush draws, top pair, and backdoor draws to name a few. Notice how many players were massively incorrect, and how often the least popular answer actually turned out to be the best play.
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· A Single Hand Quiz & Breakdown: redchippoker.com/breaking-dow...
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Can we get more videos like this? I much rather prefer this rapid fire style where I can learn from many hands in 1 video. Nice job with this one!
Possible. They just take me so much longer to make =( I'm glad that you liked it though Michael!
@@splitsuit Dear James, this is one of the clearest, most illuminating coaching videos I've ever seen. This is such a challenging topic to get your head wrapped around, yet you present and explain the different scenarios brilliantly. As you said, it's especially interesting when we see how often students would check fold hands that have significant backdoor equity on dry boards. Brilliant. Thank you.
Technically it's better for him if he can make 10 videos with one hand on each lol
So basically do the opposite of what I'm thinking and I'll be golden.
Same. Do the exact opposite.. as I cbet every X/R or X/C and I X/C'd every Cbet. :P Looking forward to experiment with this and learn the right way of playing
So funny. I wonder how that would play out if you tried it a few times for an entire tournament. 😁
LOL
oddly enough, in most things
More of these situational quiz and answer videos going forward would be greatly appreciated, I like the format and the presentation and find these videos useful more than all others, pretty much.
Such a great video. Just got my $5 a week. Seriously splitsuit, you're pretty much the most intelligent poker tutor I've found on CZcams. Sucks when I snore a measly 52%.. 😂
James congrats on the video. This is the best video format imo, since it dissects a single concept with multiple examples.
Thanks Stavros. They take longer to make, but I'm just happy that people dig them =)
Stavros Georgiadis agreed. More of these please, James!
Thanks James, great insight as always. I’ve been looking to add some check raises b/c I definitely don’t have enough and they are heavily for value.
well done, sir. very clear explanations on simple, specific hand examples. very practical help.
Another solid video, James. This is seriously illuminating. Cbetting OOP is one of my big leaks. Almost all of my punts can be traced back to bad cbet OOP strategy.
Some of your pointers seem counter intuitive at first but do make tremendous sense once you explain them.
Cheers Mark!
Cool vid... Leak buster 2 showed me I was C-betting OOP too much. This content gives some context as to why and what other options accomplish what I need. I like the quiz format. 👍
As I criticized one of your other videos, here's some positive fb as well. This is just superb stuff. I like this one even more than some of the videos in core. Thanks so much for making this available publicly!
Great introduction to OOP play. From this point its easy to carry my studying to solvers and go from there. Thanks poker bank ;)
Extremely clear and thorough explanations bolstered with advice demonstrating great insight into your audience's potential foibles . Very helpful - thank you.
You're very welcome Tim - I'm glad you liked it (and hopefully learned something too!)
Another point to mention with some of the drawing hands is that checking with the intention to check raise also gives you a shot at a free card on the turn, especially if you were the preflop raiser. If you hit your hand on the turn, it is then often very well disguised.
Great video, thank you so much for this. I disagree on the x/r with 9Ts though. I feel if we cbet we can call a raise while when we x/r and get 4bet we have to fold out a lot of equity.
I said check fold on the 4rth one not realizing I had top pair. For some reason I thought it was J9 flop. Yea I c bet that one. Thanks James. You have helped my game as if you were my private teacher. Much love brotha!
Huge different between early po raise (tight range) & button call vs. small blind raise (wide range) and big blind call. This strategy seems to allow opponent to realize a lot of equity by checking back a variety of overcards and gut shot/back door hands that they would fold to a CBet.
Love the videos thanks for posting! Question: I have a lot of problems understanding why we check call 7d8d question 6. If we check call are we treating this as purely a pot odds problem? If we check call vs check raise due to our non clean outs we can still catch said outs on the turn. And finally if we make our straight are we treating a straight as a bluff catcher since we clearly have no SDV with check calling? Thanks!
60% for me. Some of those spots were tough. I loved this format.
Loving your videos dude, keep it up
Thanks Nagrad!
Hmmm, I was under the impression that you wanna check-call your nut flush draws since if they 3 bet your raise, you have to fold if you're not getting the odds which sucks since your hand can draw to the nuts. I check-raise some of my weaker draws since if you get shoved on it's not as big of a deal since for example your 7 high flush might not be good but depending on the texture obviously don't raise all of your draws since you'll have to bluff heavy of a cr range. For your combo draws, you can really do any (cbet, cc, or cr) since depending on the draw you can call a raise and still be ahead in the hand (especially if you have overs as well). Just my thoughts and what I've heard from others and some peoples work with Pio but I could definitely be wrong. Thoughts?
very informative and educational. Thank you
You're very welcome Sam!
I knew I don't check raise nearly enough, but man I really don't check raise enough
You don't know what's going on, man.
@@EsaelPaggin024 no idea.. hes so high right now.. btw those X/R ranges would be very hard to balance.. the guy contradicts himself a lot also- theres better teachers
i learned a ton! Love this format. Thank you Split and W34z3L.
I tried to do the quiz quickly so i got my instinctual reaction, I completely ignored thinking about the quality of outs like you mentioned. I think I answered cbet to 8 of the questions lol, I cbet almoat anything
Thanks Split. Very thoughtful quiz, answers & reasoning. Snowie had CBET as a reasonable option (best or close in EV) for all 10 scenarios, with 2 X/R, 1 X/C & 1 X/F, as follows:
#1 = CBET (vs your X/R)
#2 = X/R or CBET (vs your X/C)
#3 = X/R or CBET (vs your X/C)
#4 = CBET or X/C (agreeing with your CBET)
#5 = CBET or X/R (agreeing with your CBET)
#6 = CBET or X/C (agreeing with your X/C)
#7 = CBET (agreeing with your CBET)
#8 = X/C or CBET (vs your X/R)
#9 = X/F or CBET (agreeing with your X/F)
#10 = CBET (vs your X/R)
Any thoughts on the general difference in philosophy?
Thanks again,
Mike
Cheers Mike! Perchance, do you know how Snowie models its answers nowadays? Have they switched over to a GTO solver model or are they still modeling answers off of the neural network?
@@splitsuit neural networks
@@lkmillerpa thanks Larry. Given that, much of the data Snowie is getting is directly from players and since most players cbet too often when OOP, make defense mistakes when IP, etc. - the recommended lines can miss nuances. Eventually, I may run this entire quiz through a GTO solver with a few range assumptions and see how the solver recommendations compare.
@@splitsuit Thanks much, for your response & the great content!
I like this, this advice is different from GTO and different from basically any other advices advocating "standard lines".
However I would really reconsider check/raising against sticky/fishy players who don't believe, basically most of the population up to 50NL online. The thing is they are very sceptical vs flop check/raises while very scared against turn check/raises and absolutely don't believe to river check/raises.
The biggest mistakes players can make are OOP and with check/raises you start to build a big pot with marginal hands. You have to know when to barrel against who and when to stop otherwise bye-bye bankroll.
Also when you cbet A9ss on J94ds what's the plan on the turn and the river?
when you think to check raise end villain check ,what is the next move on a bad tern for our own hand?
Hi James. First of all thank you for your quality videos, very few people explain concepts as well as you do. 2nd if all I was wondering if Core includes the type of info you present in this video? For example, does the check raise section go over good boards to check raise on etc? Thanks :)
You're very welcome Subie! And CORE covers a lot of the concepts we discussed in this video, but more from a 10,000-foot view level instead of super granular. That being said, there are plenty of granular examples...just not hundreds of them for check/raise textures specifically =)
Hi James, are you factoring in BB's capped range into these examples? Or are we assuming BB has a very low 3bet frequency? For the AsTs hand on the Tc9c3h board, where you opted to cbet, shouldn't we be less worried about protection since many of BB's hands that we are protecting ourselves (Broadway pairs) from would have 3bet preflop? And we also hold an Ace blocker further reducing the number of combos of those hands. Or is the bet for protection to deny BB's straight and flush draws from completing? What would be better here? 50% pot or 66% pot?
Also if we check here, would we expect BB to bet draws? Which he probably has many of?
This video gave me so much insight, I signed up for core 2.0 cant wait to learn the right way
Cheers! I cannot wait to hear how CORE helps you along =)
Looks like a limit game scenario rather than a no limit scenario, which would greatly change the dynamics
I've heard U in a bunch of videos prior to this but never saw U. U don't look like U sound! It's fun picturing what people look like without hearing them. I saw U as a little guy w glasses and no facial hair!
This is great 🎉 !
Do we have an In position episode of this ?!
Cheers; bravo !
thanks for the valueable lesson! theres just one thing that is not touched: what do we do with our two pais and sets OOP?
i thought we should mainly have them as a check-raise on wet boards to protect our draws, and check call/c bet on dry boards. what do u think?
You're very welcome. Those are decent starting points, yup =)
As I suspected, I've been cbetting too frequently. However, I didn't realize that some of those cbets should've been executed as check-raises rather than cbets.
Thanks a lot
On #3. I reasoned in favour of C-bet that since the opponents range is relatively wide (called as BB), we are in a good position to beat any of their straight draws or flopped pairs as we have top pair and J as kicker. Therefore we would be happy if they call and we would be happy if we just win the pot then and there. I gather from watching this video that with check/call we can milk the hand for even more value and that is why C-betting is worse.
Not sure anyone will read this but I would appreciate any comment to help a beginner (me). Thanks :)
where could i find a video explaining what to do you in similar situations at turn/river when villain calls the flop check raise?
for hand 10. i dont understand the reasoning for a check raise. as the PFR I dont see what hands we can rep when x/r the flop. over pairs and pocket 88, 55 maybe 22. doesn't this flop favor the BB? it seems like the pfr is being ignored and its seems like its assumed the BB knows we are raising really wide from the SB. Please elaborate. thank you
X/R on boards the villain doesn't connect with. If you check to the V, he will just bet most times.
@Allen Albright thanks that makes alot of sense
Hello, thanks for the video ! At 8:30, i don't see why Pair+Draw makes the best bluffcatcher since our kicker blocks the bluffing range of villain (?)
In the first hand if given AKhh you would be more likely to just play it as a check call since it has some semblance of showdown value correct? I think I find myself often over estimating the showdown value of Ahigh and check calling in hand 1. Hand 2 you would be more likely to check raise that specific hand on 7d4dQx since straight outs make the nuts right?
Hand 1: You could c/call AhKh
Hand 2: That, and the texture is FAR different than T87 =)
Great video however what about more information?
What do you do when you miss or hit turn cards?
And on a lot of boards which are dry and unconnected, you advocate for a c/r on hands with bdfd/bdsds. That'd mean we need to balance this out with all top pairs essentially, and the occasional overpairs and sets. We don't have many 2 pairs on 862 for eg...
In a spot where players tend to heavily over-fold, what value:air ratio would you like when x/raising those boards?
@@splitsuit True. I'm guessing you've done a more thorough DB analysis than I have. On such boards, when called, what would you do then? You'd be risking a pot sized bet to win pot most of the time (quick counting - you'd have 9 combos of sets, 3 or 4 2 pairs, and maybe 10 top pairs on low boards vs roughly 50 combos of broadways).
Continuing from there when you have backdoors would be suicide as you'd have a roughly 30% 'continue to barrel' card - assuming bdfd and gut shot or bdfd or bdfd and oesd combos [(10+8)/47 cards left in the deck)] vs a very strong range of top pairs/sets/2pairs + some sticky overcards - which may well improve ott into a top pair style hand. Only 6 - 12 combos of mid pocket pairs which do comprise a chunk of continuing hands would fold vs a semi bluff.
So assuming this line you'd either check/fold or barrel --> check/fold hoping to.
I dunno if it's that profitable, though it'll work often.
Definitely worth it in a tournament perhaps where smaller raises may work and you'll often be playing bb vs RFI where your range connects more on these kinds of boards. Otherwise though? I dunno.
fantastic video
Just curious, are these all heads up situations? And if not, how and if would these situations change? Thanks again for all that you do here. Has definitely improved my game.
Yes. It's blind vs blind.
Michael Geiser thank you
C.R.E.A.M....muchas gracias por el video!
On hand #2, there are so many ways to win the pot/push your equity on the flop, it seems to me that that's more important than whether your hand is drawing to the nuts against a single player. Obviously, you're going to get stacked most of the time that you're up against J9, but even against everything except J9 of diamonds you're going to have some live outs. Most of the time you're going to have ~12-15 live outs + some fold equity.
On the other hand, if you wait until you make your non-nut flush or straight, you're more often going to be in a spot where you can't extract maximum value for your hand, so I'd prefer to put pressure on my opponent on the flop and try to win it right there.
Also JQ, JK and AJ will hate life. The 56 combo draw is close to the best scenario for them when they get raised on that board. Those hands are likely to succumb to pressure on later streets. And against 2 pairs you can fold to the 4-bet on the flop and have good implied odds when they just call and you hit. I prefer your line as well.
Hey Chris. Cbetting was given a good chunk of partial credit for #2, but your analysis is quite tactical. From a strategic point of view it's important to think about your entire range, protecting your various options, and also reacting to certain things (like if V checks the flop behind or if you CB and V raises). Again, this isn't to say that cbetting isn't viable (or even best with certain information), I just don't think it's best in the given spot =)
I have done some work on this and a lot of these examples seem to run very closely in EV with the betting options. Good to mix things up I guess against reasonable opponents.
=)
I remember videos where you said that it's never for protection it's for value. has that changed or just the terminology?
I think a bit of both tbh. Years ago people would throw the reasoning "for protection" around as a lazy excuse rather than a legit strategic reason.
That's a great point as his previous video changed my perception regarding "protection".
What about if you have a weak flush draw? You have 9 outs, according to this video you should check call with a weak flush draw by default but what happens if you aren't getting the correct odds to call?
Great quiz and video! Got almost all of them wrong lol
Please elaborate on question 6 I ticked check fold seems weak to me only 8 out if he raises even half the pot aren't we in negative ev then? Help anyone?
at 11:18 with AA thats the exact hand ive got today. i got check raise as bein in position of the button. so BB checked the flop and i fired 1/2 pot and i got raised allin instantly. i thoght he has either a strong draw , a straight or a set. so i had to fold. the flop couldve make a straight and had 2 suited in it. so did i do right thing ? on a long term perspective ? shouldve i just checked back the AA and eventually just check call the turn a small size bet ?
There’s no straight on the flop so you’re only losing to sets to a draw that hits. Seems like a tough spot to be in. Depends on their stack size also
Thanks.
I know I'm probably check folding too often.
I also know that check raising more often is probably the best solution.
However it takes time and study to review the reasons for making a good check raise.
I'm now in the habit of looking at my opponent's donk bet frequencies to make adjustments.
Great video.
I needed this one.
10:01 question. cbet looks fine. what happens if i get raised ? should i continue or just fold ? all your actions are fine but you dont continue with the hypotesis of explaining whats next. .. so in this case scenario , i cbet , opponent raises me , what should i do ? also regarding the first hand with the A flush draw , i check raise and opponent raises me back to allin , should we call or fold ? i want answers bro. i want money
When watching tournament poker, I feel there's alot limping in the small blind. Also the stacksizes are shorter at this point, how does that effect the same scenarios given in the quiz :) ?
massively, for like 27 different reasons =)
Should you continue firing in the turn if your check raise get call and you miss your draw? And how much should be the check raise, 50%,66%, 75%, 100% pot?
K72 FD
SB wide opening range vs BB wide defending range
PF - villain would have 3 bet all his good hands - AA, KK AKS etc
Flop:
Ranges are both wide, but we do have the initiative.
Villain can have all sets except for KK.
He won’t have many FD as we have the blockers but we can have all the sets here as well.
Check raising and C betting would have the same effect. Villain would fold all his junkie hands and continue with his better hands. We unblock his calling range as we have the FD, unless he’s calling with a worse FD.
However I think range betting 33% pot would be better as we won’t put ourselves in a position where we have to decide what to do if villain raises our check raise. And this is presuming that he bets if we check.
If we miss turn, and it’s a brick card, we can either check and give up, or polarised turn. We can have all sets as our value hands and the FD as our bluffs
If i play against weak players do my game need to change to get more value? And i know you said that i have to be mature about it and be honest if i m really about the best player , for exmaple with weekend players do i need to play the same hame that you recommand?
Hey Roby. The term "weak" needs to be expanded further. If you mean "weak" in that they never fold and take high-cards to showdown, then reducing your bluffs makes sense. If you mean "weak" in that they are too fit-or-fold and make huge folding mistakes against cbets, then cbetting more air makes tons of sense. Try to be specific in your player typing and it will help you find easy adjustments in your value:bluff ratios =)
Watch a lot of poker teaching vid
Yours I think is done very well and I can actually follow it and learn the others just confuse me
Why I am subscribed to your channel
I scored 62%, which I don't think is too bad. Generally speaking, not enough c/r's but it looks like that's also most people's problem. I wonder what the average score is?
We just chec raised on flop with Ax heart flush, turn is blank check call, check fold ?
what range do you think V bet/calls with? how often is that range likely to bet the turn when checked to? how often is that range likely to fold to another barrel (what about a turn AND river barrel)? Start there =)
Hi I'm still trying to understand the decision for A5 hand why would we check raise here ? Do we check raise cause we think our opponent Is cbet bluffing ? Let's say our opponent has top pair 8 is that the correct move ?
Our opponent cannot cbet. We could. But we will miss the cbet and hope our opponent stabs at the pot with a weak hand. Our intention is to semi-bluff raise if he does stab.
Why is semi-bluff raising good? Because our opponent often stabs with weak pschidt so this is by no means 8x or better. Furthermore, we have great backdoor draws. Backdoor flush draw and backdoor straight draws (a 3 or 4 on the turn gives us a gutshot, a 6 gives us an open-ender). Lastly, spiking an Ace might give us the best hand.
I mean the answers he gives are probably the majority percentage of the GTO solver, but I can imagine with some of these draws nuts or no nuts there is some considerable check raising instead of check calling
i would check jam
Wow that upload was freaking awesome.... instant thumbs up 👍 Any plans for a late position one of these? (Or just more uploads like this) Would be great to get content in this format with turns and rivers that don’t always work out or look dangerous for us.
Yes agree with this. Can be a variation of the hands in this quiz. Like what to do on various turns
Cheers Josh! And going a next-step into turns and/or rivers is a great idea =)
@@splitsuit Agree with Josh! Would love to hear what your advice is especially on the hands where we intend to check call medium draws. What are some lines for when we miss or hit the draw on different turn board textures? TIA and great video, very informative!
about 2nd hand. high u cant win @ show down with 6 high. If you dont cbet you loose a chance to big blind fold. if you bet and he calls its ok. than you you can play some turns and some rivers. its a great hand to bluff 3 streets.
11:59 you will get bad beat frequently if you're trying find gutshot straight on flop draw flush like this
The first one A5's l said to cb because if l checkrise my range looks exactly flach . so if I cb here my range looks so wide.
CBing got a good amount of partial credit for Hand #1 =)
Grat video
Thanks Devion!
Is this applicable to tournaments ?
The big picture ideas will be - but the specifics can shift things rapidly.
#2 is auto check raise. ...especially heads up
Planning to get it in when V 3bets the flop? Because you think V is stabbing that particular texture too often? Or just because "lots of outs yo!"?
Love your beard
72%, not bad.
Sure people don't XR enough but SB v BB (or OOP in general) these are very tricky pots to play ott and otr. It will just leave us with a ton of awkward turn spots oop with bloated pots. I would advise all except experts players to be very careful in these spots.
Dan is the man
I’ve probably watched this five times just trying to absorb it all
Hopefully the 5th time is the trick!
@@ThePokerBank Hopefully! Great videos though, really some of the best.
If your beard gets any dam longer you could angleshoot hiding your big chips behind them....
How the hell is number 1 x/r??? Surely this board is cbetting for like almost every combo in our range??
Poker has changed a lot.
and it will continue to evolve, yup =)
Never have the nuts on the second hand? What about a 4?
3.8k is an absurdly large sample size for almost anything.
100% free went to you should get this £5 a week.
Out the 3.3k sample, can you please let us know the average percentage people scored? ♦️
~35%
Omg!!! I got 59%. I’m ready to go pro
James, do you have the most epic beard in poker?
65% not bad... then retook for 49% ouch
i respect your contribution to the poker community but i have l am disagree lots of hand that you say . i am a winning player , and those move that you disagree actually use by Pluribus , i dont think you can debate with AI and solver. draw with no show downvalue should be play aggressive, first we can possible bluff out, buy the pot from better draw , like some A high flush draw. , those draw with show down value can still possible play passively as we dont want face a 3 bet all in with a draw.
what if you know they will fold?
If you *know* a player will fold, then ramp up your bluffing frequency!
Just saw your video and then watched triton poker cash games and nothing you said was applied
i got 51% is that good?
I did too so no
What’d y’all get? I got 78%.
Nice video and work. But it's wrong for the most boards. (I study 50+ hours monthly)
Thanks! I've been known to study a bit myself =) If you disagree, why not lay out your proposed lines and reasoning? I've created a thread if you want to go long-form: forum.redchippoker.com/discussion/12696/the-oop-cb-quiz
why are all spots sb vs bb? opens up ranges so hugely.
Only to simplify the spot - not to get lost in "this kind of analysis only applies to sb vs. bb hands"
@@splitsuit Fair enough!
The main issue is that If u x/raise u are saying that u have 4/5 flush, Even a top pair would re raise and gamble.
What is the frequency that your opponent does Not have top pair? Say middle, bottom, just air and then stabs. Against a frequent Cbettor who’s stabbing with air a lot this is profitable.
You could take the same line with flopped 2 pair & sets. & hope he wants to gamble thinking you’re on a draw.
I strongly disagree with the recommended line of the 1st hand (A5h).
Check raising with the nut flush draw on the flop is often preferable. However this flop is way too dry. Other than flush draws what are we raising? 22 and 77 and that's probably it, since we have around zero 2 pairs in our range. Moreover check calling opens up more bluffing opportunities on other streets. Imagine having a hand like Ah7x. This hand can check call flop and potentially bluff on bad runouts with a heart in them. Not saying raising is bad, but unless you start raising a ton of top pairs here as well you'll be too easy to read, which in turn worsens your implied odds.
If you do x/call, what is your overall turn idea when you A.) miss and B.) improve? Answering those questions can help ID the good and bad elements of a particular line =)
@@splitsuit That's an interesting question and these questions also apply when you check raise. I guess check raising makes your line easier, but imo it's suboptimal.
To answer your question:
A.) On bricks check call turn and sometimes lead rivers. Yeah he can have top pair, but even so he has a tough spot with a K with weak kicker, because our line looks strong. Also the dryeness of the board means that he can definately barrel twice with a random QJ or something, so our A has marginal showdown value. On broadways you could make a move. Maybe represent 2 pair or a combo draw. Villain has so much trash here he will fold often. And if he does call the turn with something like 2nd pair you can put pressure on the river. As I said, the board on the flop is just too dry to justify a check raise, but turns and rivers can make the board just wet enough to more credibly be aggressive.
B.) Lead out. Make it big. He's not going to stack off with anything but top pair+ so might as well go large. Also, this makes your bluffs in this spot much more potent, because it's really flush or nothing.
Thanks for the response btw :). The check raise with backdoors on low boards is a really cool move and I will be exploring it more thanks to this video.
yeah I don't know how is c/raising on that board standard with Ah5h, it is the most standard board for cbetting, where you want to cbet majority of your range, maybe even whole range vs players who will not raise or defend enough.. There is also no explanation what are we doing with other AhXh draws in this spot? Are we supposed to c/raise all of them or what? Clearly you want to cbet most of your AhXh hands, and put some % in your checking range. I would much rather c/raise Ah2h here.
I put it into solver, OOP is cbetting with like 90 percent of combos, favoring small (33%) sizing. Clear range advantage over BB here...
Wow I didn’t know you looked like that
Is he one of those Amish menonite people???
I like you! 😘
Woukd love to play against this guy lmao, j dare u to play this way against me
I disagree with a lot of the answers on this one. I really don't think you're c-betting enough for value and you're checking too much just because it is not vulnerable. There are still plenty of weaker hands that would call/float that I would want to get value from. I also disagree with your reluctance to play lower straight draws and flush draws aggressively simply because they are not drawing to the nuts. At 100bb deep at almost all player pools I am going to be more than happy to get it all in with a lower flush/straight, yes they could be beat once in a while but we are going to lose a lot when that happens regardless and it doesn't happen very often. I also think if we are really ever folding a flush/straight for fear of a higher one, without a huge read, then we are folding waay too often, we will be at the top of our range with those hands and should very rarely fold. I think getting it all in with those hands would definitely be the highest EV as we crush 2pair, sets and even some sticky TPTK hands way more often then we are beat.
Nothing wrong with disagreeing, and I appreciate you taking the time to formulate your thoughts. That said, I suspect you might be cbetting too often OOP (as most players do) which keeps your checking range super face-up and will create massive issues when you play against more competent opponents. Cbetting a ton works in many games, but when it starts to break down it's tricky to identify and thus slow to adjust...
@@splitsuit i absolutely agree that it's okay to disagree and I love discussing different ways to play a hand.
I think that in the majority of the examples we are at least in the top 1/3 of our range here (if playing a wider SB raise preflop then hitting top or 2nd pair or strong draw is definitely in the top 1/3) and should be cbet imo. Then let's just assume if we choose a raise sizing of roughly 1/2 pot, we are giving our opponent 3:1 on a call and he should optimally fold 25% of his range (I feel like most players fold way more than this). Then we should be betting 75% of the time (assuming we get to this point with similar range strengths which I think is close enough to true) in order to make him indifferent between folding/floating hands on the cusp of 75% of his range. If he folds more than 25% of his range then we can exploit that by adding even more hands into our betting range beyond that of 75%.
Therefore I am c-betting a very wide range here if I choose a 1/2 size. do you see any flaws in my frequency analysis/assumptions? I am curious, what overall frequency you are c-betting here?