Confederate Revolvers: Leech, Rigdon, & Ansley
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- čas přidán 16. 09. 2015
- / forgottenweapons
There was not much industrial production the the Confederate States of America during the US Civil War, and Confederate-made revolvers have been very collectible for a very long time. Today we're taking a look at three such revolvers made by a series of companies that evolved throughout the war. Specifically, a Leech & Rigdon, a CH Rigdon, and a Rigdon & Ansley.
All three are mechanically copies of the Colt 1851 Navy, as are most Confederate revolvers, but they have some distinctive features. In addition, by looking at all three together we can see some of the changes that took place as the war progressed.
Comparing these guns reminds me of comparing different 1958-1960 Gibson Les Pauls.
It's rare to see an unlicensed clone realistically being a bit better than the original. Thanks for sharing!
An outdated design, though.
@@anzaca1for the time or for today?
@@anzaca1 not at the time it was made since it was a quite new design
Really cool seeing how the gunmakers' story played out by the context of three of their pistols. Great job as usual Ian!
Saw you on Gun Stories episode about flintlock and percussion caps last night. Now I get to watch you on TV and on my computer. Congrats on being on TV.
+Daniel Taylor if im not mistaken, he was also on sons of guns a while ago.
+piggyslayer1999 My mistake, I don't watch sons of guns.
+Daniel Taylor Thanks! I don't have a cable subscription myself, so I haven't been able to see the Gun Stories episodes yet. When it's all aired then I'll get a DVD copy...hope they look good! :)
+Daniel Taylor Not watching Sons of Guns was no mistake.
+Forgotten Weapons couldn't agree more.. it was a .. weird end to that show.
Always a pleasure to see and learn about these pieces of history...Thank You...
Dear Ian, I'm following your channel for about one year now and you always make such great and interessting videos. I just want to say thank you very much for your great work and best wishes from germany :-)
Sir,Fascinating to watch and your knowledge of these old weapons is very impressive.You don't seem to be reading from a prompt either.Thank you for posting best regards from England.
You do a fine job with your reviews. Very informative and no bs. Kind of a rare thing on youtube.
My grandfather used to collect confederate weapons (he was in the NSSA and actually used a couple of them in matches). The crowning jewel of his collection was his LeMatt (we didnt shoot that for obvious reasons).
I’m 5 years late to the party, but what happened to all those firearms? Are they still in the family? I’d hope so.
@@ILikeToLaughAtYou after he passed my aunt, uncle, and cousins came to the house and took what they wanted. What wasn't taken by them was sold off before I could ask for anything. Unfortunate and still a point of contention I have with my family.
You are the man Ian! This is one of the best channels on youtube. You have incredible knowledge of firearms development and history. Thanks for sharing it with us! Keep up the amazing work!
Thanks for another great video. I don't own any guns and have not shot one since the mid-1980s but I still really enjoy your videos. Your depth of knowledge of these guns, their manufacture and history is impressive and makes for fascinating viewing. I may have learned a bit about the guns you've covered but I've also learned a tremendous amount about the industrial back-story and history of the wars for which these guns were made.
Always great to hear the interesting history along with the guns. I really need to get an 1851 repro. It would be a lot of fun. Great video as always. Thank you
Now if only you could get your hands on a Griswold & Gunnison Revolver...
He's been going through confederate pistols and I'm just waiting for Griswolds
Love the linked history, and a new insight into the CSA history.
Ian, these Gun's are what I've been waiting for you to do. I Really love this style of gun that tried to compete or maybe not compete with Colt. But I still love the old west gun or the ones Clint Eastwood, Lee Van Cleef, Eli Wallach, used in some of the old Western Movies, like, The Good-The Bad-And The Ugly. Plus many other Great Movies. Thank you for Sharing this Great Video & Information on where they came from.
Incredible piece you show us, one of the best gun channel in youtube 🎉
Outstanding presentation. Love these old revolvers, USA or CSA. Lots of history and thanks to you I've learned a quite a bit more than I would have on my own. A lot more-thanks. Good job!
Was raised in Columbus and there is a historic marker for Leech and Rigdon there
Thanks once more for a great video.
Great stuff as always!
that my family did in civil war and we brand gun making !
Just an outstanding presentation. Thanks for the info.
Just subscribed, love History, especially Old West and Civil War, thanks 🤠🔫
Nice compellation. Interesting about the 12 notches. Thumb up for the video.
Awesome video TY for the knowledge
I have a Leech & Rigdon copy made by Uberti I bought from Dixie Arms in 1988. Looks just like the one you have. 36 cal.
Art Warmanen uberti made these?
@@pattonkesselring4247 those are orginal guns. Mine is a modern copy.
Yeah I know that, I mean I’m surprised uberti is making a replica of a clone of the 1851 navy, considering it isn’t to well known and they already make the 1851 navy
@@pattonkesselring4247 They are not true clones of 1851 Navy, just based on 1851. The barrel is vastly different, more like a dragoon.
@@mikekj1 yeah you’re, I’m still surprised that Uberti would make a replica of it, since it’s not the most well known cap and ball revolver.
ever since I started watching hell on wheels I've begun to love cap and ball revolvers
+saturdayocean tell me about it. As a kid I read a few books on firearms and there were a few noted stories that had tragic results with black powder guns.
One child went blind when he picked up a musket from 70 years prior only for the black powder to discharge. The gun wasn't loaded, and hadn't been used in at least 2 decades, but it was no longer cleaned maintained, just used as a centerpiece and was originally a civil war relic.
Nice history lesson, thanks!
That one Confederate firearm that I recall being noteworthy is the one with an axis pin that could be loaded with a small shotgun load. I think the cylinder held 7 shots, so basically an 8 shot revolver. That was pretty cool.
Yeah Bee
Yeah, that's the one.
If i recall correctly Forgotten Weapons has done videos on both the original Le Mat revolver you are thinking of and the later (and uglier) cartridge firing one.
The Lemat was a 9 round 44 cal gun with a 20ga smoothbore cylinder pin making them 10 shot guns. Pretty good advantage when your on horse back fighting. They are able to be shot in cometitions( orig or repro) in N-SSA matches along with a bunch of other civil war guns.
William Sanders
Advantage in capacity, but will ultimately result in a longer reload due to all the chambers, and reloading the shotgun chamber will probably take more time than reloading one of the pistol chambers. You get ten bangs, and will probably have to ride to safety so as to spend five minutes reloading the thing. To try and reload it while riding around on horseback though? Sounds like a friggin nightmare. Dealing with the powder, the little balls of lead, the flax for the shotgun, and worst of all, those itty bitty primers. People from the 1830s-1860s were some PATIENT and STEADY HANDED fellows.
NormanMatchem That is why they would carry several pistols with them. There actually was an entire class of pistols refered to as horse pistols that were carried on the saddle or saddle bags. The SOP for J.E.B. Stuart's (one of the most famous users of the Lemat) divisions were to ride into battle with double barreled shotguns loaded with bird and buck (nowadays called a duplex or combo load) shoot both barrels at the opposing soldiers faces then switch to pistols. When empty they would then resort to sabers which generally never happened due to the tactics employed. The calvary was used primarily as recon units and when action was called for they would make short but violent attacks then fall back if the force they hit couldn't be destroyed in the first hit. Sustained fighting was always the last resort for calvary because they were so valuble to the overall picture. Now the one exception to that rule was when they dismounted to fight. Dismounted calvary was employed just like regular infantry but they could move between positions faster. Generally speaking the South didn't have the luxury to do that since they were so undermanned all the time but still managed to whoop up on them yankees in most engagements.
Fascinating revolvers. More of a combination of the Colt 1851 and 1861 with the round barrel of the 1861 and the hinged loading lever of the 1851. The addition of the mid bolt notch was an ingenious solution for the safe carry of a fully loaded cylinder.
Great vid , thanks !
I know this is an old video but I thought to mention in many old WWII planes of the times the Quality Inspector would put their first or last initial only to show who had inspected the part.
You said one of 4 letters likely the productions head of quality inspections if you did a bit of research on the company I bet you would find the names of the inspectors of the line all had names that would match those 1 of 4 letters.
the only complaint I have about Forgotten Weapons is... there are not enough videos because I've watched them all. Great show, thanks.
As always good content! I just wish you would go back to your old intro I always thought it was really cool ian.
Hi great video as usually. 👍
I am late on this one, but you have so many of them. 😀
I am just wondering how does the cap removal cut out work ?
Thx.
Year's ago my buddy could not afford a new one from Italy so he got one from an old timer in Maine funny part was we were in a cemetery in solon Maine and a old guy was there probably at some family members grave we were talking about Black powder guns he said he had one and would sell it cheap so my buddy got it and for some reason it shoots Way better than the new one it was a Colt my buddy sold it when he went into the army wish I could have gotten it.
Ian, have you ever reviewed a Rogers and Spencer 44?
+Bill M No, not yet.
Thanks again ........
Appx. how long would it take to produce each handgun?Were they assembled on a production line?
It was quite unfortunate they never adopted those extra stops for the early cartridge guns.
On the earliest revolver, on the righthand side there's a semicircular cutout on the frame behind the cylinder: if it's not a space for removing spent caps, what is it for ?
From what I can see it looks much the same as the semicircular cutouts on the later guns which you say IS for removing nipple caps from.
The Inspection Stamps were most likely just the least used of the stamps and three inspectors had one each.
Was the 1063 gun made with a one piece frame and fractured to make it two pieces? At 8:34 you can see it side by side with a gun made to have that break. If so, it would be the earliest example of the 'fractured cap' process (now commonly used in Automotive connecting rod manufacture) I've ever seen.
Ian, are the frames and cylinders cast or forged?
Hooray, revolvers
It’s weird hearing that they are in my town.
Can you do a video on a Lefeceaux revolver, sorry for my spelling.
This is interesting, I would like to know who worked at the factory? I remember an episode of Who do you think you are with Spike Lee, his ancestor worked in a gun factory making revolvers as forced slave worker.
I wonder how many men died when the cylinder jammed on a spent cap. Rapid fire must have been impossible with that occurring after every round. What a boon the metallic cartridge must have been!
I guess I had the impression that materials were very hard to come by and firearms in the south were whatever could be acquired or hastily made. These, on the other hand, seem quite finely made and carefully marked (broken stamps notwithstanding). I'll bet they were the pride of those that carried them.
+Forgotten Weapons
Here's a challenge for you guys at Forgotten Weapons. First off I'm Canadian so I have no idea if what I'm saying has any relevance to what's available in the States but I just picked myself up a rather interesting weapon and a little bit of research makes me think its something down your alley. It's a Kessler Model 128 fr bolt action 12 gauge shotgun if you wanna take a look for yourselves
I haven't seen any oddball things like a bolt action shotgun in your videos before so I figured I'd let you know
Ian can you look for a "dance brothers" pistol?
They were made in my hometown, East Columbia, also copies of the 1851 colt navy.
Very rare
A book was published called " Dance Brothers, gunmakers of the Confederacy"
They are also my great, times three or four times, uncles, ...thanks
u the man
Ian. You talked about the cut out for the cap removal so the spent cap could be removed so it wouldn't jam the cylinder. I'm not familiar with cap and ball pistols so I would like to know how the spent caps were removed as the cylinder rotated.
Spent caps are split pretty well by the hammer striking. and are expected to just fall off on their own after firing, to varying success.
Think about the layout of a six-shot cylinder: After moving onto the next shot, the freshly fired chamber is the topmost of the two chambers set vertically atop each other on the right side of the gun. If the burst cap doesn't fall off then, maybe it'll be jolted loose with the next shot and fall off when that chamber drops down to become the bottommost chamber off to the side.
Were Deane & Adams DA Revolvers used by the CSA ? Anyone please advise .....
While accepting the limited materials available, it strikes me as strange that the CSA didn't place a higher reliance on what was clearly an adequate pistol and locally produced. Even with a final production run of 2400, there must have been a lot of personal weapons and imports doing the rounds in the Confederate officer corps.
ps. Do I get barred from this channel if I don't watch Barbie train her pony afterwards?
Worried from England.
+John Brooks The north at one point in the war imposed a blockade on the south making any form of imports and exports very hard to establish. Which is why a lot of company's in the south had to make do with what they had.
+John Brooks From the UK too, glad its not just me with the recurring pony training video.
+John Brooks The CSA had to rely on imports from Britain and France. After the North blockaded that, they were forced to rely on domestically made products which were limited and why they imported in the first place.
The South had the agriculture and raw material but the North had the factories.
And Ian lists his videos in the education category (most gun videos people just list as entertainment) which might explain the little kids educational videos.
+sergeantbigmac +fu21fu I'm sorry I didn't make myself entirely clear earlier. The blockade was generally effective and reduced the number of weapons being imported into the south (and exports of cotton to Britain) without ever closing it off entirely. In the vast armies involved in the Civil War, however, there must have been plenty of officers needing a sidearm. Were the numbers made up of mainly imported pistols, personally owned weapons or were the contracts for 2400 Rigdon types adequate to fill the gap between those available and those required.
+John Brooks The entire blockade is an interesting story, and in turn the CSA's entire war production, and in turn government policy. For those who didn't know, some simple notes that came to mind.
1. Government couldn't get all needed weapons and materials due to blockade.
2. No proper Navy could be formed, and thus blockade runners were the norm.
3. The capital was the linchpin that kept supplies coming.
4. Southern Patriotism had it's limits a all that was needed for the war effort could not be provided.
5. Transportation of goods is day and night between the north and south hence the futility.
Results:
1. Factories had to be converted for the war effort, and were surprisingly adequate in quality, but not in quantity in any goods. Enemy stocks were a prime incentive for victories, especially boots.
2. No real navy was formed, war ships like the USS Arkansas had to be built over seas to Privateer union ships. Others were conscripted and locked in harbers against union ships either to defend or do blockade runs.
3. To meet the military's needs. Businesses and factories were forcefully converted when not enough were available. This is especially true at the capital at Virginia which was the most industrialized city in the South. Quote's had to be met the best they could/
4. Not too long into the war, it became painfully obvious that not enough people were stepping forward nor were willing to share the bulk of their products. As the war dragged the government in turn had to almost become a virtual dictatorship just to force the population to meet the military's needs. Even with forced policies and nationalization of certain industries, it all fell short. Despite being farmland, they couldn't feed the troops as easily as the north, thanks to cash crops and slavery, hence why many Union POW's starved to death. Boots, guns, ammo, clothes, men, food, not enough to go around.
5. From what I remember, the south had only to two major rail lines, the north had the majority of them before the war, and it became critical. Even if the South could meet demands, they couldn't even transport it. The Union could meet almost all goals given a little time, but the south could scarcely transport anything of need in urgency. It's only other major transportation was the Mississippi river, and with the coasts blockaded... a sorry state indeed.
do you know who the officer in south Carolina was?
Wade Hampton, perhaps?
When the hammer was on a safety notch did the cylinder have to be indexed by hand to get to a nipple, or was cocking the hammer enough?
+AK107DX Did you have to 'double stroke it"? If it had 12 stops, and you cocked it (assuming it was in the middle of 2) then you fired it...wouldn't you have to thumb it 2x for the next round? or manually index to next cylinder?
Thanks! I only have modern revolvers and know little about the older stuff...
Cocking the hammer will move the cylinder just far enough to properly align with the chamber.
How I wish Uberti and /or Pietta would make reproductions of these ....!
Uberti does. I have one.😉
Uberti basically takes the 1851 and gives it a round barrel to make it into the L&R. In all other respects it's just another Uberti 1851 Navy, right down to the cylinder (naval scene engraving and only six notches).
i wish i lived in America, i´d be owning loads of guns....gunlaw here in Denmark sucks
+pkj77 French isn't that great too, i know the feel!
Get a hunting license and you can buy shotguns and rifles.. og you join a shooting club you can file an application for getting a license to buy pistols. Not that difficult.
@@TheDarktone101 Much easier in the US. He'd have his choice of pickings.
did ACW revolvers were only issued in officers and pitty oficers and also on cavalry men?
The pistols did not accommodate paper cartridges' with the conical bullet; the cutout above the cylinder is not complete. Or am I mistaken?
Like the 1851 they're copied from, the conical cutout appears only on the right side of the frame. It would be the New Models such as the 1860 Army where both sides of the frame have cutouts.
Values? Or sold prices?
Were those revolvers accurate? Like a modern revolver? Or a1970 colt SAA? The SAA seems to be VERY accurate like a modern revolver.
No, these are black powder revolvers that shoot round bullets
What kind of jerk would give a thumbs down for this video?
+James Basler Probably some northern Yankee.
+Forgotten Weapons No good rebels!
Seriously every one of his videos has thumbs down. I guess some 9 year old's came here for cool explosions but they found education instead.
A libtard?
how badly are the barrels on these old guns pitted?
The letters for quality control are maybe the first letter of the guy who is doing the control...like is happening today.
Plus the fact that Colt was over pricing is revolvers by probably double what they should have sold at, and the public accused him of profiteering.
So how can you tell apart authentic revolvers and fake ones?
I often wander if the south won would they make good on the patent infringements?
If they'd won and wanted to establish trade relations with Colt, there'd be a reckoning.
I have a Leech & CO.-C.S.A- stamp on my revolver and can’t find any information on that model is that a red flag?
Seems to me that twelve cylinder notches is overdoing it when you can get away with simply seven of them...
...after all, you only park the hammer between chambers when the cylinder is fully loaded. You don't need extra slots between all six chambers-- you just need one extra slot cut between two of them.
About fakes, if it's based on an Italian copy, wouldn't the screw threads be metric? Should be a relatively easy way to check. Also regarding fakes, I've very little about those 19th century copies of Colts made in Belgium. Occasionally see one at a gun show. The Liege vendors were listing them up to early 20th century.
Confederate Awesome
You said there are counterfeits from 1865 out there. Why would people that early on attempt to make fakes when the real products would likely be available in abundance at that point
What? No Griswold/Gunnison navy?
He made a video on that one a few years later. czcams.com/video/e1zVDRRUIew/video.html
One question and one minor correction. The question is about where in Greensboro were they located. I ask because I live near there and actually work in Greensboro now and would like more info, also my family has a long history in Greene county and was actually in Greensborough ( old spelling verses new) at the time of production there. I currently live on a family farm that made holsters for theses guns during that time. General sherman made a specific point to stop by my ancestors place and burn them out. They even had a bounty out on my GGreat granfather because of his buisness (odly enough not because of the work he did but because he was known to pay his debts with confedrate paper money but would only accept payment in gold, the yankees thought he had a large stash of golf and wished to liberate it from him. Luckily he had escaped the path of their forces and managed to evade them. Because of that we still have the property where he made the leathergoods).
Second, the cutout wasnt to help remove the caps but to allow them to fall freely after firing, on guns without the cutout they will bind up the gun on the upper portion of the frame next to the hammer slot and make it impossible to rotate the cylinder. I know this from 20 years experience shooting in the North-South Skirmish Assoc where we use they weapons and most all other war of northern aggesion weapons in team competitions. I encourage you to check them out at www.n-ssa.org.
Enjoyed the video as always and keep them coming.
@ForgottenWeapons >>> 👍👍
If you are going to jump patents and you can blame the CSA...
Wonder if these Revolvers were used by Robert E Lee Stonewall Jackson Jeb Stuart and James Longstreet?🤔🔫🔫🔫
All Parts were marked? Strange, Rigdon is no german name.
+AGS363
Even stranger fact is - Germans largely got into such minor formalities only under French occupation during Napoleonic wars. French were.. well, not terrified, but certainly annoyed that the same person can be named Carl or Karl in different documents, just as the clerk, priest or whoever else who wrote it felt is right. So French, having more of the strict Roman legacy in their culture (which is ironic, since the Holy Roman empire was largely Germanic), put an end to this chaos.
SwineNahNah TRUE.
But I was referring to something Ian said about the markings on german firearms a while back (I think it was the Video about the Reichsrevolver).
AGS363
I remember him dissassenbling some French gun (I believe it was from XIX century, but I might be wrong, maybe it was from early XX cent.) and remarking that is is surprising how pedentically every part is numbered, supposedly because most people don't expect that of something made in France. 8D
Why worry about parents.That's what Springfield said when they copied the German Mauser K98 to design the '03. And the Supreme Court agreed when it rejected Mauser's lawsuit after WW1!
CSA>3
CSA is greater than 3?
Guns are tools. I don’t believe in guns as being an “investment”.
I just witnessed an anti-gun advertisement pertaining to firearms allowed on college campuses at the end of this video. I'm not sure how CZcams adds work, but if you can do anything about this I would like to not see any anti-gun advertisements on your videos, or I will not continue to watch them, and revoke my subscription.
CZcams channels have no control whatsoever over the ads being run. If you don't want to see anti-gun ads, I suggest you watch at Full30.com instead of here.
It's all good now, I'm getting nothing but supportive NRA advertisements.
They don't control the ads, dude. You would revoke your subscription over something you don't want to see? Don't be a whiny bitch! If you don't like it, complain to youtube.