ISLAM'S ORIGINS (Part 2) What Muslims won't say about Muhammad & the Qur'an!
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- On September 13, 2023 Jay went to Calvary Chapel Chino Hills (CCCH) to introduce, in front of 2,000 people, the 4 historical problems concerning the Origins of Islam (i.e. the Book, the Man, the Place, and the Sources), but was only given one hour to do so.
Since then over 1 million people have watched it on the CCCH CZcams site, and another 330,000 people have watched it on the Pfanderfilms site.
Due to its popularity, the pastor of CCCH, Jack Hibbs, asked him to return on November 18 to unpack it in a 4-hour session to around 1,000 people. This is Part 2 of that talk, which covers the Historical problems with Muhammad and the Qur'an.
Below are his CONCLUSIONS concerning the HISTORICAL PROBLEMS with the SOURCES of Islam, the city of MECCA, the prophet MUHAMMAD, and the QUR'AN:
THE SOURCES:
It is obvious that everything Muslims are dependent on for their ‘book, man and place’ are based on Traditions (SIN) which are 200 - 300 years too late, and 100s of miles too far north
MECCA:
This city proves probably the biggest problem for Muslims because:
•The SIN speaks of a city with much vegetation, existing since Adam & Eve, & with 300 prophets buried
•Yet, it’s not referred to until 741 AD, and none of the early maps show Mecca at all
•Patricia Crone debunked Watt’s land based ‘Trade-Route Theory’ in her 1987 book on Mecca
•We debunked the Red Sea Trade via Arabia, proving it was all via Africa, because it had water
•All of the 7th century Qiblas were facing Petra up to 706 AD, and not Mecca until 715 AD
•None of the surrounding empires ever heard of the Mecca
•All of the stages of the Hajj were simply borrowed from other places, mostly Jerusalem
MUHAMMAD:
•The coins prove that the area under “Islam” was either Christian or Zoroastrian until 692 AD
•The Rock inscriptions prove that Islam as we know it didn’t appear until around 730 AD
•All of the 7th c. references for Muhammad are too far north, or refer to someone else who is ”the praised one”
THE QUR'AN:
•The 6 earliest manuscripts prove that men created different Qur’ans between the 7th - 9th
centuries
•The Birmingham Folios prove that Muslims borrowed stories created long before the Qur’an
•The 30 Qira’ats which proliferated from the 8th-10th centuries proved the Qur’an was evolving everywhere
•Holding up the 26 Qira’ats in 2016 opened up a whole ‘can of worms’ for Muslim scholars
•The interview of June 8, 2020 created a platform for us to go public with the Qira’at Narrative
•The 29 Qira’at Variants dumped into the Nile in 1924 prove that when Muslims find problems with their Qur’an, they either burn them, wash them, erase them, cover them, or sink them to destroy the evidence!
•The 4,000 Consonantal Variants prove that Muslims have accreted, deleted and corrupted their text, before standardizing it in the last century
•The 63 fragments amassed to find just 96% of the Qur’an proves Muslims still can't find a complete Qur’an for over 100 years, as their fragments are tentative, or have no sources
•The Aramaic proto-Qur’an proves that when we go back to the original text we will find Jesus!
A POSSIBLE SCENARIO FOR THE ORIGINS OF ISLAM:
•The 7th - 8th century Arabs in order to create their own distinct identity needed a ‘book, a man, and a place’, which they did with the Qur’an, Muhammad and Mecca; but it didn’t take just 22 years as the SIN claims, but centuries, proving that Islam is as man-made as any other religion, unlike Christianity!
WHY IS THIS 'HISTORICAL CRITIQUE' SO POPULAR?
1) We can use this material today to disprove the Preservation of the Qur’an, Muhammad and Mecca
2) It is Islam and not us who are ‘arguing from silence’, as we have the 7th c. evidence they don’t have
3) These arguments hit at the very foundations of Islam; yet they are neutral and ‘politically correct’
4) It is visual: Notice that everything we show you has to do with pictures of coins, rocks, buildings, maps, timelines and manuscripts. Even speaking fast you still got the ‘gist’ of what he was saying
5) You don’t have to know Arabic to understand it, or use it: One of the biggest fears we hear from many Christians is that they don’t want to have to learn Arabic in order to discuss Islam with Muslims
6) It is foundational to everything Muslims believe: It features one book, one man, and one place; yet, without any one of the three, Islam “falls to pieces” and is destroyed
7) It is Historically neutral, and therefore NOT Islamophobic, or “hate speech”: Thus, everyone can use it
8) But we really would prefer that Christians to use it…why?
•Because Christians have the only book, and man, and place which have passed these criticisms
•Thus, we understand its power, and have the right to use it publicly…but mostly….
•We are the only ones who have a better response, and a better solution = Jesus Christ!
© Pfander Centre for Apologetics - US, Jan.5, 2024
(100,000) Music: 'Joy at Work' by Musicifiles, from filmmusic-io-Bought 2022-04-28
Islam rhymes with scam, and that's a scientific miracle!
Salimey-man-he-Cum !
Brudderrrrrrrr 😂😂😂😂
Every thing he says is a lie
The oldest quran has been discovered 8 years ago in brinmingham university and it dates back to the age of mohamnad
Is scam dies without lies.
Dr Jay please come to Ghana. because we don't have this details, our brothers and sisters are dying as Muslims.
Much love from Ghana
Because islam is truth man, what people should do?
@ozkanarrslan everybody that reads your comment will know you are a liar.
@isaacashietey8209 I see you 😊
I am also an atheist. This is not your fight. This is a fight of Truth and Historicity against lies. I will always be by your side. And it's ok if you also try to convert them, I deeply respect and appreciate christian influence on our society.
christianity >>>>>> islam, as an atheist
More Christians and atheists should work together to expose Islam like AP and David Wood. You can be Muslim in a secular or Christian society but it’s much harder to be anything other than Muslim in an Islamic society.
I am a Dutch atheist.
And I also look at several ex-Muslims on YT.
They also have great knowledge of that false cult of Islam.
Some of them become Christians and atheists, or Hindus.
I count everything that is no longer Muslim as ---good.
@RedbadvanRijn-ft3vv I am also Dutch, and I as well do not follow any religion or faith. Also, I agree with you here 😁
Every thing he says is a lie
The oldest quran has been discovered 8 years ago in brinmingham university and it dates back to the age of mohamnad
I'm delighted you have reached 100,000 subs, Jay! The way you brought all the info together is amazing. This lecture series is going to change everything. Keep up the great work! God bless you!
Amen. 🙏
@islamicorigins with all these understandings and new developments of Islam . I can’t shake the idea that the dome of the Rock is equivalent to the abomination of desolation . Considering mhmd as a name for Jesus . The inscription on the dome of the rock seems to fit the description of the abomination of desolation ; it fits more than it would with the standard narrative . It denies the the death and resurrection of Christ wouldn’t this be deep sacrilege . Love your work open to seeing your perspective
Every thing he says is a lie
The oldest quran has been discovered 8 years ago in brinmingham university and it dates back to the age of mohamnad
@@davidalpheaus3352 Therefore, ISLAM is an ANTI-CHRIST!!!
What an exhaustive and convincing session Dr. Jay.
So much truth unfolded, can't thank you enough for the decades of effort you have been putting in
Kindly watch his other videos including Robert Spencer : they said no reference to Mohamed mecca and Ka'aba. Now suddenly Mohammed is Jesus even quoting songs of Solomon 5:6.
He has failed with these 3 Points: Jesus is Mohammed.Muawiya is Christian. Quoting Songs of Solomon 5:6. He had a " debate " With David Wood about existence of Mohammed and promotes Robert Spencer's book Does Mohammad exist. These guys are just deceiving their Christian following. Now. Mohammad now has followers of approx. 1. Billion. How many billions have all the islamaphobic guys brought to Jesus all this while.
@@isssayahya819Lol, "Song of Solomon 5:6." 😂
@@isssayahya819why do Muslims accept the BS of yasir qaudi , but you discredit Dr. jay smith? By the way what is your educational background? Are you as highly educated as Dr. jay smith? Go to school get your doctorate in Islam then do your research to find out what Dr. jay smith talking about! It is out of your scope of knowledge! But till then you have a lot of work do. So go and get started.🙃🙃🙃🙃.
@@isssayahya819
Islam dies without lies.
But,,nice try Mohammed.
Congrats on the 100,000 K.
Fantastic information
🎅😚✨️😇 Mr Jay Smith, we are the people of Indonesia, I just want to say that we are grateful to you. Your video, your findings and teachings about Islam, very useful to us. Now we can debate Moslem rafdcals.
Ideal nya, sofiatul, dewi bulan, atau fatimah serta scoot, bikin konten begini dlm bahasa indonesia, cara pemaparan dan penyampaiannya dari Jay Smith patut ditiru
Zijn er nog steeds christenen in Indonesië? Are there still Christians left in Indonesia?
🤣🤣
ten oten, dari zaman christian prince kalian juga nge klaim nya juga begitu.
bahan bisa buat debat sm muslim.
ujung ujungnya selalu kabur kebingungan sendiri.
😂
@@pauljansentextor1788lxa lot and increasing according to the Indonesian. Many still hold their identity as muslim because islamic persecution
Islam is always and forever doing all of the persecution on the rest of humanity, because Islam demands evil, and you know it. @@user-yo9jo2fy5e
Congrats on 100k subs! Excellent work on Islam's origins.
Thank you so much dr. Jay for those four hours of video with the whole story in it! Greetings from the Netherlands!
Heys let’s hope wilders bans that religion of terrorism/jihad and r*pe in The Netherlands
Every thing he says is a lie
The oldest quran has been discovered 8 years ago in brinmingham university and it dates back to the age of mohamnad
Amazing work ❤🙏❤️
May God bless Jay Smith's efforts ... I loved the concluding prayer ..
The love the Muslims ... Overflow in it ...
Brother Smith! Thank you ever so much. God bless you.
Great work as always 👏🏼 congratulations Dr Jay for the 100k subscribers 🙏🏼👏🏼 not only Christians and Muslims are watching your videos, pos war, there’s now a lot of Jews watching videos about Islam, I hope it brings Jews and Christians together ❤️ we are one, we have the same Holy book, with orthodox Jews we share the Old Testament( Tanakh) and with our messianic Jewish brothers we share exactly the same Bible from cover to cover, with small changes on the sequence of some books only. Even our New Testament was written by Jewish men also❤
Without Mohammed stealing the Christians and Jewish writing, and changing their narrative, there would be no Korean.
Every thing he says is a lie
The oldest quran has been discovered 8 years ago in brinmingham university and it dates back to the age of mohamnad
The good Dr buried Mansur at SC. And buried Islam with this presentation 🎉
Great stuff Jay. Peace be upon you.
So Muhammad is a figure like King Arthur-a founder of legend from an imaginary place. The English, though, never built Camelot. Your work changes the whole paradigm of the debate. As a Jewish person, I thank you.
Dr. Jay, I am really baffled and confused about your findings. The points are very powerful and excellent.
As a Muslim, I was not taught about this historical facts.So, I am in doubt these days.
Congratulation Jay with the 1❤❤K Subscribers😊
Great work, Dr. Jay!
Excellent! Excellent Jay.
Thank you!
Thank you for having YHWH's heart in dealing with this.
Very informative and interesting. Thank you Dr Jay for your hard work for the glory of God.
I would hardly call it informative . Nothing will galen to you if you question islam. Allah tells us in the quran to seek knowledge
actually wrong, islam does all it can to prevent muslims from learning the truth about their horrific religion/culture/legal system/ideology. @@sweetiepie4328
@@sweetiepie4328lol did you not listen to the presentation? Islam is made up and Allah doesn’t exist.
See also these documentaries: "Islam The Untold Story" and. "Islam False Religion Exposed"
Every thing he says is a lie
The oldest quran has been discovered 8 years ago in brinmingham university and it dates back to the age of mohamnad
I watched ur video once and since then u my personal best friend I feel peace in watching u because u worthy watching thanks
Then you shpuld know, when you stole 1 cent, what will be?
thank you for your scholarship!!!! Your exegesis is so persuasive.
The greatest miracle ever performed by Muhammad was getting 1.7 billon to believe in him
The 1.7 billion is not by word but by having sex. And please don’t count the children under 18.😂😂😂😂.
A miracle protected by apostasy law 😂
It is by having sex and recreating not by logic, there is no place for logic in Islam remember????????🙃🙃🙃😀.
@@jamesdanialy264look at falling birth rates in the world of Islam faster than in the west but from higher base
@@szymonmoldenhawer6692 oh really or are you for real? Islamic world has so many children that even Muslims are tired to keep up with counting! In Europe and Japan and most western countries having one child is the limit but in Islamic world and countries sky is the limit!!! Who are you trying to kid ? 🙃🙃🙃🙃.
Thx. for the video. Very useful reference material.
It would have been really nice if you could include TimeStamps too for future easy reference.
While reading the Has Quran, it felt like I was reading 2 different books that switched back and forth (Meccan & Medina Surrahs) Makes me wonder when the Medina verses were first introduced into the Quran(s)? What is the earliest Quranic Manuscript that has surah 4,5, 60, ect? The Medina verses look like they were created in the late Ummayad period while the Meccan verses are mainly of Christian/Jewish origin.
What this has taught me is that even the sword cannot prevail against the truth.
Thank you Dr Jay for your dedication to spreading the gospel of Jesus and giving people factual evidence and truths, for people to see that it is Jesus Christ the son of God who came to set man free from bondage and fears and give us the gift of salvation
Hi Dr Jay... Congrates on 100k subs! just a request, can you pls do a video comparing Christian manuscript & coins and Islam's manuscripts with the dates ofcourse... can you pls do that? Just want to see more infos of the manuscript that they found in Qumran...
The doctor has this covered. I remember viewing this years ago.
Every thing he says is a lie
The oldest quran has been discovered 8 years ago in brinmingham university and it dates back to the age of mohamnad
Congratulation on 100k Subs..
Excellent,👏🏻👏🏻
What a banger!!!
God bless you Dr. Jay Smith ☦
Made me cry in the last couple/few minutes of this video.
We must understand that the contentions (or disagreements) over the “Perfect Preservation of the Quran” is a thing of great importance to Muslims. How else can a Muslim assumes his divine human superiority over his fellow human beings if the Quran has been tempered with by man? Allah tells Muslims that they alone, when compared to the rest of mankind, are the superior human beings ever created. Quran 3:110 reads, “You (Muslims) are the best of people ever raised up for mankind.” In Hadith Riyas as-Salihin 1839, Mohammed, the prophet of Islam, explains Quran 3:110: “The best people for mankind are those who bring them (mankind) with chains around their necks till they embrace Islam…”
*
Thus, the Muslim must fiercely contend for his human supremacy by insisting the Quran, from God, is a decree that cannot be changed for all eternity. Surely, you do not expect the Muslim to give in to the claim “All men are created equal” - a claim he attributes to a “supposedly” corrupt book?
Every thing he says is a lie
The oldest quran has been discovered 8 years ago in brinmingham university and it dates back to the age of mohamnad
without lies Islam would never have started
Good job Dr.Jay
Thanks !
Thank you Dr Jay for your fantastic presentation. We need to learn this material this is just amazing. I wonder you haven't written any book please write for our future generation ❤
A good Muslim is a non practicing muslim , a good Christian is a practicing Christian, but the best muslim is a revert - reverting back home to the one true triune God of Christianity. Deus vult
Why best cristian is not revert, to back home, jews, why not?🙃
@@ozkanarrslan prove Meca existed? 🤡😂
@@BaBaDoo0 you put another option for islam, then compare. If u find better, then come, islam 1 option🙃
@@ozkanarrslan there is 10000 time better option tan islam is called Christianity what created the western good and values! 😉
@@BaBaDoo0 1+1+1=?
*Jay smith❤love from Kerala*
God bless U for the work U do - 🥰bring them home ♥
Thank you!
This is excellent !
Without lies Islam dies🤣🤣🤣
Come on bring out something new. The hackneyed phrase has lost its original ...
Every thing he says is a lie
The oldest quran has been discovered 8 years ago in brinmingham university and it dates back to the age of mohamnad
Sure, when you stole 1 cent, jesus should pay your punishment or your country president, i love it 😂
@@user-mk1mm2bl2y but its still true
Great information!
Everyone should know this. The Holy Bible has been scrutinized by them for ages it's their turn!
Both the Quran and the Bible has been scrutinized since its inception. Pretty much every story. It took centuries of scrutiny into the Iliad until someone could sift and prove Troy and its many wars existed
No you didn't scrutinize the Quran for fear of incarceration or Worse. Now it's being overwhelmed by the Internet.
This work is amazing
Congratulations on 100k subs.
The Standard Islamic Narrative is DEAD
The holes in the standard islamic narrative was perfectly preserved
May our Lord Jesus, open the eyes of those who are deceived. In Jesus Holy Name.
Oh man this is fantastic. I'd really love to see a series of extensive documenting and studying of the major religions of the world. Everything is distorted. A video like this about the authentic origins and meaning of the bible and a study of the historicity of Jesus and where the "miracles" and parables come from.
Can you explain this please:
The inscriptions on the Dome of the Rock in Arabic contain verses from the Quran, primarily from Surah Al-Isra (Surah 17) and Surah Maryam (Surah 19). These inscriptions emphasize the oneness of God, the prophethood of Muhammad, and the rejection of the concept of Trinity. Some of the specific verses inscribed include:
- Surah Al-Isra (17:1): "Glory to (Allah) Who did take His servant for a journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless, - in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things)."
- Surah Maryam (19:33): "So peace upon him the day he was born, the day he dies, and the day he is raised alive."
These inscriptions reflect the significance of the Dome of the Rock in Islam, as it is believed to be the site of the Prophet Muhammad's Night Journey (Isra and Mi'raj) and the location from which he ascended to the heavens.
Thank you so much for your ministry Dr. Jay. Are there any videos with this material in Russian? Any information would be highly appreciated. Blessings!!
Great review, but could use time stamps on this long video.
Jay, you have shown ancient maps of pre Mohammed Saudi..where Mecca is not mentioned.
Can you tell me if there is a link to these maps.?😊 I would like to print them out or purchase one to have show as evidence.
Surah 33 : 45 is a continuation of 33 : 40
O Prophet! We have sent you as a witness, and a DELIVERER OF GOOD NEWS. Good news. What is the literal translation of the word gospel?
Great work
Thks for mentioning Odon Lafontaine!
At first I thought this had the whiff of "Imagine believing their silly book instead of our silly book?" but on reflection it's a brilliant demonstration of bias making for bad science. Down with sort of thing!
An illustrated written version of these 2 videos would be useful.
Is it any way to get a copy of this information, such as outlines?
Leaving now
Dear Muslims. I think Jay is really sincere. Watch from 1:57:49. He genuinely loves Muslims, you can hear it in his voice. I found those few seconds near the end so powerful!!! But also watch both videos of this whole presentation and see what he has to say. I pray you all find the truth and it will set you free. Come and follow the one true God. We love you. ❤✝️
I thought Muslim was used in the 7th century, however as it means “believer” it works fine forever using it for perfectly, as they regarded themselves as christians (Arianism)
Islam does mean believer it means submission to the will of Allah.
Every thing he says is a lie
The oldest quran has been discovered 8 years ago in brinmingham university and it dates back to the age of mohamnad
@@joshualittle877 Islam is Not submission to Allah but Surrender ( In war) u convert ( islam) u save ( No killed). the word Islam come from 2 words . Aslamna and Taslimna ( Pronounce Alsam taslim ) and appeared in the Quran. Surah/ Chapter 33 al azhab 22 and Al Hujurat 49 verse 14. thanks.🤭🤭
When you upload a video, could you please not change the title a week later - referring to part 1 - and make a playlist for a series if you know it is a new series. Thanks.
That's all you could say...puuuleeeezzz.
@@mbhinkle And that's all you could say. Clown.
@@mbhinkle Cry mooaarrrr
Could you go away? We're begging you.
@@garybowings1538 Who we? You go away Legion.
So informative and powerful presentation. Glory to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
God bless you brother.
Thanks for education Mr Smith
WOW AMAZING
Feels good to be educated on this topic, I spent 10 years debating Muhammad’s gang members and only a handful will listen and learn sadly
Well done to those who want to get educated
Clearly the "mushrikuns" so often cited in the quran, often translated as "polytheists" or "associators" or "idolaters" refer in fact to christians who believe in trinity (meaning that they give "associates" to God, which is considered to be the worse sin in islam called "shirk") ... and not at all to so-called "pagans" or "idolaters" from Mecca.
Therefore the famous "verse of the sword" (quran 9:5) " kill the "mushrikuns" wherever you find them..." means "kill the christians wherever you find them ..."
Moreover historians have established that there was no more polytheism in Arabia in the 7th century as most Arabs, especially in cities, had been christianized
Praise God The Father of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ His Son who came down and was born in the flesh of a virgin , and died on a cross though innocent of any deceit , that we might live more abundantly in His Holy Spirit by whom The same Father raised His Son from the grave and hell after 3 days and now anyone who looks to him shall be saved . The Adversary has deceived all not only the Muslim Nations but God is revealing His Truth to His Own . May The Same GOD bless you and keep you in His perfect peace in Christ Jesus.
Al Muhammad Syed Imam Ali is a title for Yasou Al-Masih. The Most Praised & Chosen Lord of the Most High Jesus Christ. Muslims of current Muhammad Hijacked the Arabic language and applied it to their False Prophet. Those are titles to the Lord Jesus Christ he is Muhammad he is also Imam Ali.
Joshua 5:13-15 KJV
[13] And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? [14] And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the Lord am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? [15] And the captain of the Lord's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.
Look at this passage of bible Muslims of today are worshiping Jesus Christ.
muslims do not know who jesus is. They never did. @@clevelandwilliams5922
Every thing he says is a lie
The oldest quran has been discovered 8 years ago in brimingham university and it dates back to the age of mohamnad
22:00 best reading lessons ever
The effort that it took to preserve this lie all these years is almost praise worthy, shame that this lie is accompanied with threats of death.
For ages I wondered about the word Abt . Head of a monestry. And Abdullah.
Abd means servant. As far as I know.
Abbot comes from father. Abd is servant two different words.
Every thing he says is a lie
The oldest quran has been discovered 8 years ago in birmingham university and it dates back to the age of mohamnad
There you go Muslims the truth
Islam is slam
🎉
Dr Jay ❤️ ❤️ ❤️
Can't make this up. The name. 😅 35:48.
😂
That had to be a joke surely?!
it is@@beefymario88
Sheikh Masif Ears🤣
👂 👂
A quick thought. After seeing Muslims praying in times square...is it possible to show this video on times square screens? I saw a prayer night I the square one night. Would this be possible? If so how could I help.
so did Petra have coins?
one of best videos on internet
May God continue to send us people like Dr. Jay Al Fadi Christian prince, and people like the Late and great late NABEEL Qureshi’s and many others and many ex Muslims
1:41:32 around there. With your last point, "Little did they know....." I don't agree. No, when they made the decision to sick the unwanted Qurans in the Nil, they had ONLY their university in mind! What afterwards happened is an other story. Of course you are right on the following point: They didn't think in their wildest dreams, that somebody would check it out!
Jay's work is incredible and ground breaking truly a revelation which challenges both Christians and Muslims to think about Islam very differently based on his and others extensive historical research into the early origins and evolution of Islam.
Most people and Muslims have always believed that Muhammad was the Messenger of God and the Final Prophet and believed the whole narrative of a cave-dwelling guy in Mecca who receives the Quran via an angel and he develops this following around him in the 7th century which is the birth of Islam, 600 years after the death of Christ. And they deny that Christ died on the cross and say Allah created an illusion to make people THINK that but really that Christ went to Mecca in exile.
There's several ways you could view, but let's go with the history (or lack of) supporting Muhammad as another Prophet after Christ in the 7th century.. and try to explain how this character-narrative and the Quran came into being..
In the 7th and 8th century there was division still in the Christian world over the Holy Trinity with some Christians not believing in it. Religion and politics at this time are closely interlinked and religion and power go hand in hand. The rulers of that time would have subscribed to either Holy Trinity Christianity or non-Holy Trinity Christianity. We know from Jay's work that Muhammad isn't a name but a title and could well be used for Jesus as his evidence shows it in fact was. Let's suppose then, the late 8th century ruler Jay identified who breaks away from Holy Trinity Christianity and mocks it (as we saw from the coins) has had a battle and to affirm his power and authority over people (using religion) he begins to affirm there is only ONE God Allah (which we know is a pre-Islamic generic word for God) and Muhammad (which we also know is just a title meaning the anointed one) is his Messenger. This guy is basically saying I believe in God and Christ as the Final Prophet of God. And he's at war with anyone who says different. As the Arabian Empire's grow over the 8th and 9th and 10th century this takes root and gradually becomes a distinct religion and evolves by oral tradition into something WAY distorted from the original message (the Chinese whispers effect)..so NOW Muhammad instead of being Christ is believed to be a completely different Prophet from the 7th century in the late 8th century and by 9th-10th century reiterates of early Quranic scriptures until the first complete Quran appears by 10th century..some two hundred years after the original oral traditions.
It's not a great leap then to suggest Muhammad referred to in the Quran was ORIGINALLY Jesus Christ (Final Prophet) and either by accident or design/intent Muhammad has become this fictional 7th century warlord character. That explains why he's hardly mentioned in the Quran only 4 times and Christ is 90 odd times. Islam could be basically just a breakaway Christian sect that took on a life of its own as a distinct new religion used to political influences and the need to use religion and politics together in that part of the world at that time, to expand a growing Arabian empire of conquest.
OR you could take the view Islam is true, and Christ didn't die on the cross and did indeed end up in Mecca in exile, preached there for a while, and the Arab's passed on his teachings orally from generation to generation and by the time anything is written down 200 years later it bears hardly any resemblance to what Christ taught, but they have the central message that Christ didn't die on the cross and lived and preached among them in Mecca. This would have been 2,000 years ago though at the time of Christ supposedly being crucified. If that is the case (which seems very unlikely) where is the historic evidence? Wherever Christ went thousands, tens of thousands followed. There's no evidence I'm aware of Christ lived in exile in Mecca and we'd expect loads.
So it's more likely, the early Arab's were Christians and have 'adapted' Christ into a Christian revisionist religious narrative for the purpose of political power and conquest, which evolved into Islam (which means submit) and that's how it came into being..Muhammad is most likely the title of Christ originally in the oral traditions but later takes on a life of his own as a distinctly separate Prophet and role-model and is merely a mythical character. It's not that different to the historical legend in UK of King Arthur and Merlin...it's a fictional work but so old and so interwoven into British folklore-history that many people actually believe they were real people (even historians) and they find history which fits the fiction and people start to get confused over whats folklore and whats history. I think Islam is probably the same scenario with Muhammad. They are anti-Trinity Christian's basically with a very distorted and messed up take on Christianity and Christ's teachings.
Comprehensive demolition job. Well done Jay. You should have left off the bit at the end about Jesus being 'eternal, sent down, complete and unchanged'. That's belief, not history. Exactly what you're accusing Muslims of! Quoting the Gospel of John is seriously problematic. In John Jesus is reported as making claims for himself that are completely different from his sayings in the synoptics. If John is historically accurate then the synoptics can't be. I would recommend you arm yourself with textual criticism of the New Testament so you aren't vulnerable to the charge that you don't apply the same rigour to Christian beliefs that you are trying to apply to Islamic beliefs.
One other thing. Why would Arian Christians have used a word meaning 'praiseworthy' or 'glorified' to refer to Jesus instead of using his actual name? According to the coins the Caliphs up to Abd al-Malik were Christians, right? But if Abd al-Malik was trying to *distance* the new Saracen religion from Christianity, then the name Muhammad on his coins and the Dome of the Rock inscription didn't refer to Jesus.
Greetings Dr. Jay,
How can I get the PowerPoint for use right here in West Africa?
I have been evangelizing to young Muslim for over 6 years now. I believe your PowerPoint will help me to step up the endeavors.
Thank you
i subscribed your channel to learn about Muhammad life and Islam deceptive work and beware.🙏👍
The 2nd greatest trick the devil devil ever played was convincing 1.8 billion Muslims Jesus didn't die for our sins.
Am from Africa, South West Nigeria, Lagos, how can i get the books you introduce at the beinging of your presentation in youtube chanel, i will glad if i can have those books.
“Christoph Luxemburg’s (a pseudonym) scholarly career has evolved through interpretations of the Islamic Qur’an, its earliest textual fragments and compilations, which along with early Arabic inscriptions form a textual-linguistic corpus of elements derived from Syro-Aramaic and proto-Arabic evidence. In particular, Luxemburg bases this article’s research on deciphering the earliest known Arab-Islamic inscriptions, found in Jerusalem’s Dome of the Rock and compared to other evidence within a context contemporary to that historical period. He concludes that in the earliest Umayyad period of the Islamic system inscriptions interweave Syro-Arabic textual phrases that encode Christian symbolism and doctrine, which he labels Islam I. According to his analysis the inscriptions and other contextual evidence of Islam I refer to Jesus as a “praised one” (a Muhammad I ) than to the Arabian figure we know as Muhammed ibn Abdullah, which Luxemburg associates with a later version as Islam II and Muhammed II. Luxemburg attributes this shift in political terms with the shift East of power from Damascus to an Abbasid regime that constructed Islam II as a state building religion wrapped in a mobilising myth to legitimate their takeover from the Umayyad dynasty, and link their succession to Muhammed II and a Meccan origin. While this hypothesis and theory may seem farfetched to mainstream Muslim and non Muslim Islamic scholars, no critical opposition has appeared to refute these claims from similar contextual and linguistic evidence!”
The Hidden Origins of Islam: Review by J. A. Jamil Brownson,
MEDITERRANEAN REVIEW | Vol. 5, No. 2 [December 2012] pp.111-114
The Hidden Origins of Islam: New research into its early history. Karl-Heinz Ohlig & Gerd E. Puin (eds.). Prometheus Books, Amhurst, NY 2012
I would be really interested in seeing a debate between Dr. Jay and a knowledgeable Muslim, where they talk about these topics.
He debated Shabir Ally. Great video as well.
He has done it before
May I ask about the places of Arabic worship which pointed to Petra? Who was worshipped in those buildings? If I understood you correctly, they were functioning before the beginning of Islam. Thank you.
Amen 🙏
Why does it matter how tall she was? He is always pointing that out?
Where do we find the PowerPoint file?
Amazing
35:48, is his name a typo?