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Review: The Big Böhm Box Rebooted (Orchestral Music for DG)
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- čas přidán 16. 11. 2021
- All of the music (or as much as makes no difference) was previously issued across three 20+ CD boxes from DG dedicated to, respectively, symphony cycles, the "late recordings," and (get this) the "great recordings (1953-72)." So what do you need this for? Well, first, if you didn't get those earlier boxes, and second, if you really like Karl Böhm, a fine but occasionally dour conductor who probably did his best work in the opera house. His Beethoven and, especially, his Mozart is worth hearing, as well a bits of his Brahms, Richard Strauss, and (surprisingly) his Haydn. If you have some or all of that already, you won't need this, and that's the bottom line.
Please visit the ClassicsToday.com merchandise shop--open to thrill you with cool branded stuff that will make you the envy of your musical friends: shop.classicstoday.com
A video posted at 5 am EST. Dave is the man who never sleeps.
Only discovered David’s channel literally a couple of days ago and wow, a major UK fan now! His recommendations for Beethoven, Bruckner, Mahler symphonic cycles have actually reinvigorated my love of that music. Just added Igor Levit to my playlist, thank you David for sharing your invaluable knowledge, experience and passion, your advice is going to have a major impact on my musical trajectory for years to come.
Thanks very much, and welcome!
The same thing happened to me about 5 months ago. If it wasn't for my Qobuz subscription I'd be broke now.
I'm addicted to your advice on classical recordings, but I dread seeing my Amazon charges and I'm running out of room to hide my big boxes from my partner. But on this one you saved me money and space. Thank you.
I was happy to see this box set and ordered it immediately from jpc at a great price. DG has done a great service for those of us who didn’t buy the older sets when they were released, oh, 8 years ago (and which cost a premium these days). Tossing in the BluRay of the Mozart Symphonies is a welcome bonus, IMHO.
That said, it’s a bit sad to see Böhm getting the B-list artist treatment from DG. No new remastering anywhere, and there are more than a few recordings that could have used it. No lamination to the CD sleeves and no liner notes on the back of said sleeves, a nice touch that DG used in their Decade boxes for the ultimate A-lister, Karajan. A modest CD booklet and no translation option provided for the German-only interview CDs.
Still, a welcome reissue for THIS collector. I have passed on the earlier vocal box as I already own most of those recordings in prior CD issues that included libretti. It’s surprising what comes off well here (Böhm’s Haydn) and what is disappointing (his Wagner). I like Böhm’s orchestral R Strauss more than Dave, including his ASZ, whose opening “sunrise” was included as a substitute recording on MGM’s original soundtrack LP of “2001 - A Space Odyssey” in lieu of Karajan’s Decca recording that was actually used in the movie. So far I have enjoyed hopping around this set, sampling its wares. Well worth the $ spent.
I completely agree with you.
I wait in Australia at exactly 7pm for David s excellent reviews. David is THE BEST !!!!
Thank you. I don't always make the deadline, but I try.
I'm probably alone here, but Karl Böhm's Brahms 1st is glorious. One of my favorite recordings in music. It made me fall in love with that symphony, plus get almost every recording I could find. Still tops. Maybe I'm wrong and it is just a personal preference, like falling in love with someone no one would...😬
There is no "wrong" if it's your favorite. It just is. So enjoy it.
I think the overflow room needs its own trademark percussion instrument perhaps a finger cymbal?:)
New subscriber here. If I've learned only one thing from your wonderfully informed videos it's that I've been mispronouncing a lot of these conductor's names for years. Thanks for setting me straight!
Um, to here people talk about here, I've been mispronouncing them too, and I probably still do. Have a look at the video "A Rant About Pronunciation." It will make you feel better.
Not being a big Mozart person, relatively speaking, I completely agree with your assessment of the "Gran Partita". It's wonderful. I also agree with your point regarding Bohm the opera conductor, vs. Bohm the orchestral works conductor. That said, you pointed out many of my Bohm favorites: Beethoven 6 and 9; Brahms 1 and 3 (same with Klemperer); Schubert 5, 6 and 9; Tchaik. 4 (a piece I normally don't like), etc. I also like his 'stiff; and 'unsexy' "Zarathustra" - that works for me; and I have weird soft spot for his Dvorak 9. I LOVE that Bruckner 8, as well the 'live' Palexa one. You might not agree with this, David, but I feel that the Bohm/Fischer-Dieskau "Kindertotenlieder" is one of THE great, classic Mahler recordings. Less said about Reger, the better. I'll gladly 'beat him up' for you. If Bohm would have dedicated the time and energy, I would love to know what he could have done with Mahler 6 and 9 - maybe even the 8th (with a great cast). But alas, it's probably best that that never happened. "Gurre-lieder" would have been right up his alley.
“Surprisingly decent”. Just the phrase I needed for my next set of employee reviews. Thanks!
I just discovered David's channel by chance, and I was absolutely captivated by his comments, warmly appreciative and also astutely critical, of Karl Bohm's complete orchestral recordings. I agree absolutely with (almost) all of David's comments (the one exception being that I like his later Vienna Philharmonic recordings of the late Mozart symphonies). There is, by the way, an NHK video of Bohm conducting the Vienna Phil in Tokyo in an excruciatingly slow Beethoven 7th. It was apparently Bohm's last orchestral concert that he ever conducted, and the audience went wild, maybe because there was a sense that he did not have long to go. I have to confess ... I heard Bohm conduct many times in the 1970s in London where I live, in Munich, Salzburg, Vienna, and even a couple of times in Paris ... both in concert and in the opera house. For me, he has always been one of the greats, though not without failings, he was after all human. Thank you David for bringing back all these memories. And I agree, I won't be getting this mammoth box, as I have most of the recordings already.
Unexpected complaints:
-- The Brahms Symphonies and the first two volumes of Mozart are needlessly packaged in 3-CD cardboard jackets. It is impossible to remove the center CD without tearing the jacket.
They should have been packaged as single CDs.
Don't they ever learn?
-- DG used to post English translations of the spoken word biographical CDs on their website, but now have discontinued this practice (and they took down the old translations).
-- P.S. For those interested in such things, the transfers are identical to those in the three earlier boxes.
Nothing has been newly remastered. Still sounds good to me.
David did a review months ago of tweezers with rubberized tips. They are cheap and a perfect solution for this packaging problem. I use them often!
The solution to those 3-CD sleeves is to provide a slit across the top of the sleeve. Sony has done this a few times, making life much simpler.
I never knew opera could be exciting until I heard Bohm's Wozzeck and Lulu on DG. They blew me away. Still my favorite recordings.
I bought this box in spite of Mr Hurwitz's advice. I had almost nothing with Böhm so there are no duplicates in my collection with this box. I wanted Böhm's Mozart and Schubert symphonies and I thought that this box contains everything so why not? (Local CD store gave me quite good discount.)
I didn't listen to everything yet. In my opinion Böhm is similar to Szell in some (technical) ways. Orchestral transparency is not always on the same level but Böhm also liked the transparency in my opinion. He obviously slower than Szell but orchestral precision is almost on the same level.
I think this is one of the slowest Beethoven cycle on the market. I didn't like his Eroica. Good orchestral playing but way too slow. I miss the power from the 5th also. I liked his 7th because woodwind playing and transparency is excellent. And even tempos are quite good. Very good Pastoral and 9th too but in the 9th the sound quality is very mediorce unfortunately.
I liked his Brahms cycle apart from the 3rd which is dull because of the slow tempo.
10 years ago when Mozart become my favorite composer, I didn't like "modern performance practice" performances. Maybe I start to became older but now I like they much more. When I compare Böhm to other conductors (Levine, Pinnock, Harnoncourt, etc.), the tempos are obciously slower. But I agree with Mr. Hurwitz: orchestral playing is beautiful. When I don't compare this to others, the tempos are competely satisfying. Orchestral playing is crisp, extremely precise, maybe one of the best. Even transparency is quite good. I started a "journey to Jupiter": I will listen to all of my complete (or almost complete) cycles: Böhm, Pinnock, Harnoncourt and Levine (I bought it some days ago).
I liked Böhm's Haydn and Bruckner too.
I love his Schubert Symphonies!
Bohm always struck me as a more placid version of Klemperer.
Without all the baggage.
But I miss the madness of Klemperer.
The three smaller boxes do not have Bohm's concerto recordings. In particular the Mozart and Beethoven concertos. There is yet another small box devoted to Bohm's Mozart concerto and serenades and divertimentos.....
Does DGG regard concertos as orchestral? I guess it depends on whether there is yet another box.....because the Missa is in the earlier "orchestral" boxes and in the new opera box.....
I don't understand why they put concertos in conductors' boxes anyway.
Thanks for this, Dave. A very helpful overview. Isn’t that Dresden Schubert 9 awesome?! I picked it out almost at random as one of the first I’d listened to from the set and - wow! Blown away. One might think Böhm + Schubert 9 = stodgy proto-Bruckner, but one would be wrong.
I think you do the set down a little in your summing-up. I think it would certainly appeal to those who are familiar with Böhm’s well known recordings and who want to dig a little deeper. Why do I think this? Because it basically describes me!
OK, that's fine.
Excellent as usual, question: I have the Bohm DG “Symphonies” box as well as the DG “Late Recordings” box - is it worth getting the DG “Great Performances” box or will there be a lot of duplication?
The great performances box is limited to stuff done between 1953 and 1972. That rules out the late recordings. Also, none of the complete symphony cycles are in the Great Recordings set, which also includes some choral stuff (Missa Solemnis, The Seasons) so there won't be much duplication, if any.
Such a pity that the overflow room does doesn't have a barn attached to it. I've become accustomed to daily horse sounds. 🐎 Oh well, I'll just have to wait for Dave to return to Brooklyn.
It's in a barn, actually.
Yes, early riser, 4AM here in Central USA!
I cheat. I can schedule the time the video goes live in advance, although in this case I'm up now, obviously, and it's 5:37am.
Check for the t-shirt hue rather than the time stamp. It’s like the puff of differently colored smoke emanating from a papal selection conclave. I’m a US Central Time-dwelling early bird myself, always brightens my day when a new video is the first thing I do after brewing coffee.
There are 4 DG Bohm boxes: The Symphony Edition, The Great Recordings, The Late Recordings, and Karl Bohm : A Life in Music (an Italian DG production) I have the first and last. Now we have the Everything Box. Early next year DG will release a big Boulez box, and Decca will release an 88 disc Ansermet box......I'd like to see Dave go through the Brendel Edition -two Beethoven sonata cycles, and 3 Beethoven piano concerto cycles etc....with detailed commentary on all of it. But seriously folks, has there been a video on The Sorcerer's Apprentice? I ask because I've talked to several musicians and they say that it is a really difficult piece to play.
It is.
Thanks again for all the wonderful information you provide. In this, particularly for reminding us what an excellent opera conductor Böhm was. Question (and pardon, please, if I've just missed the answer) - Have you posted about any of the 'big' Liszt boxes, or about either of the Debussy anthologies?
I've looked, but can't seem to find them. I welcome all the individual items, but would love to read your take on those larger collections.
I have, but not as dedicated single videos. Howard's complete Liszt was in my 10 Greatest Boxes of All Time video. You're right I should do the boxes. Stay tuned...
@@DavesClassicalGuide Ha! I almost forgot the Howard piano CDs. How could I do that? I have them as individual releases - as they came out - not all together in the box.
Of course, when I invoked Liszt boxes, I really meant the 'sampler' anthologies.
We know there is no end to Liszt...once you dive in, you are likely to drown!
Unfortunately DG mainly repackages and rereleases the same stuff without any improvement in sound, except for some releases in the esoteric Blu-ray format. The Beethoven cycle in this box would be a prime candidate for a remastering, along with many others. I didn't expect the praise for the Posthorn Serenade, given the balance between the strings and the soloistic woodwinds. The playing is lovely, of course.
Dave, were those the overflow glasses for the overflow room? :-)
The other ones broke. They are CVS' finest.
Hello David, First, thank you for another great review. Second, I have a question for you. Let me preface it. I, similar to you, first collected LPs since 7th grade music appreciation class (taught by Mrs. Holyoak, and I'm still in contact with her today) introduced me to classical music back in 1971. I then transitioned to CDs in late 1983. Like you, I now have an overflow closet and am running out of space. I see you still have a lot of jewel boxed CDs. I know you did a video on this a while back, but here is my question that I don't think you addressed, unless my memory is failing me; when you get these big boxed sets, what do you do with your duplicated individual CDs in jewel boxes?
Usually I do nothing. When space runs out completely, I'll deal with it.
I think the Heldenleben with VPO is pretty good. Much better than the Dresden one. It is used to be my favourite along with Haitink before discovering Reiner.
Would you go through the Böhm opera box just for fun?
I could be persuaded.
Please do so
Decca isn't helping my wallet at all! In addition to the Solti London and Erich Kleiber boxes coming out next month, they're releasing a John Williams and the Boston Pops Orchestra box in the new year!
Dave a bit of a so called off piste comment here about your review off the bohm box but you mentioned in your review of the great orchestras in your comment on the Boston symphony you mentioned that leinsdorf could be hit or miss, I admire leinsdorf and very much regard his rca box of the beethoven nine the only one the book did can you do a review of leinsdorf recordings?
At some point, I hope too.
It annoys me that "Vocal Works" are in the opera box and not the orchestral box.
I have never heard the Missa Solemnis or Haydn Seasons or Mozart Requiem or Brahms Alto Rhapsody performed in the opera house.
This is concert hall music - David Geffen Hall (yecch) not the Metropolitan Opera.
When Levine performed this repertoire with the Met Orchestra, it was at Carnegie Hall.
WORKS FOR CHORUS & ORCHESTRA (7 CDs) IN THE OPERA BOX:
These works would have been a better fit with the music in the Orchestral Recordings box:
-- BEETHOVEN Missa Solemnis:
-------- Berlin Philharmonic (1955 mono)
-------- Vienna Philharmonic (1974 stereo)
-- BRAHMS Alto Rhapsody with Christa Ludwig: Vienna Philharmonic (1976)
-- HAYDN The Seasons: Vienna Symphony (1967)
-- MAHLER Song Cycles with Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau: Berlin Philharmonic (1963) (no chorus, but still part of the concert hall repertoire)
-- MOZART Requiem: Vienna Philharmonic (1971)
DH,,,my opinion. Fair review. Maybe Bohm should be given more latitude. It’s not his fault that DG/UMG is all screwed up.
The thing with boxes is they quickly go out of print--on purpose!! So that DG can keep on milking their existing recordings . The problem then becomes diminishing returns because the classical music audience is a niche audience and most of them are superfans who will grab a super limited edition when it comes out, This results in the ridiculous situation that Dave pointed out of people owning multiple boxes of the same thing unnecessarily. Nevertheless i'm glad that they occasionally reprint the stuff in new boxes for the sake of those who are new to the world of classical music collecting and are discovering the great conductors for the first time. I would point out however that those new to the hobby are unlikely to cough up the money for a super expensive" box of boom." The smaller boxes are better for this.
Celibidache said in an interview that Karl Böhm never directed a single note of music during his lifetime...
He was a jerk.
_Böhmböxer!_ Muahaha! 🙂
Not Vickers, Windgassen.
Same difference,
@@DavesClassicalGuide Only if artists don't matter.
@@johnburlinson6697 Happily, they don't.