Norton Multi-Oilstone Restoration: Follow Up and Use
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2024
- Norton Multi-Oilstone Restoration: Follow Up and Use
Machinery Tag: Tom Utley at Von Industrial: www.vonindustrial.com/
Stone Grinding: Lance Baltzley at 26 Acre Maker: www.26acremaker.com/
Sharpening Supplies: www.sharpeningsupplies.com/
Schenk Knives: schenkknives.com/
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Tom does amazing work on the logos! Oh and thanks for reminding me my knife is dull. lol
Thanks for the follow up video. It’s really helpful when you have links on the bottom so we can go to websites that you talk about. I agree with the restoration. We Restore the way you want it and the way you’re going to use it. You’re restoring it for yourself, not for anybody else.
I read a comment by an older man , talking about his rancher grandfather . If a man asked about a job the grandfathers only question was " let me see your knife " . Condition of the knife meant job or no job !
Nice detail. Impressed that you would go back and pick up these relatively minor points.
Good video Keith. I agree with you on the restoration. Unless your wanting to make money on original antiques, your processes have been spot on. I've seen your projects and am very impressed. Keep making those videos.
God Bless!
I have my vintage Norton 313 that I bought off eBay Saturday morning and my brand new tags that I bought Sunday on the way. I’m super excited about it. Thanks Keith.
I was a salesman for a major auto parts distributor for 41 years. I called on mostly rural small town stores, and yes , several would have sharpening systems on the counter. In my opinion, it helped make the customer and store owner have something to visit about. Great video.
Exactly and while there, they'd find something to buy.
Those look fantastic! I always loved using one at the parts house. My Dad had inherited a very old .32 revolver that had bad rust and pitting. After a gunsmith had plated it again with Nickle he said it was a shame that it lost value due to refinishing. My Dad asked why he didn't tell him that before the job, the smith replied he figured the gun had sentimental value and would never be sold. One wouldn't want to keep it in its present condition. The new finish added value and pleasure to the owner and mattered little what the actual resell value was now. It was never for sale while he was alive and it is still treasured today.
Sharpening has always been my shortcoming. Thanks for the demo as well as the restoration.
I enjoyed the quick sharpening master class from about the mid point - Thanks Keith :-)
I loved the pricing on mine. The stones were $1.75 Each, and a quart can of oil was $0.70. That's what mine says. According to the person I bought mine from his his Great Grand Father owned it, and he got it from somebody else according to the seller's dad. Comments of "WWII" timeframe came out. These very well could be 80 years old. So very happy to finally have found one, and yes, I'm looking for another because like you Keith, I want oil and water stones. I too like them both.
Thanks Keith. You answered my question about the metal tags. Good video. Thank you for sharing, Steve
When sharpening a chisel, I like to finish with a couple strokes on the back, to knock off any possible burr, on the back of the cutting edge.
You are a brave man to show how you sharpen on the internet :D
My shop my rules. Comments are 6 feet down.
A very fine sharpening tutorial, and a good explanation on the parts that were missed last video.
My opinion on restorations is that it depends on what the intended usage is. If it's a museum piece where it's only returned to full function for show if at all, then minimal intervention is desirable. If it's going to be restored for regular use like here I think it should be restored like new so that it can remain in service for decades to come.
New coats of paint, patina removal and inhibition, and replacement parts don't just look good. These processes also ensure the tools remain useful for the next 50-100 years.
Good job Mr. Rucker, Some useful information on where the new labels were made.
Well, thank you for showing us how to sharpen properly. You took the mystery out of it.
Good to see you putting the new vise to good use.
Keith, the metal removed from the cutting edge, the stuff that stays on the stone, is called SWARF. My Webster's defines it as: Metallic particles and abrasive fragments removed by a cutting or abrasive tool. Thanks for the video. Jon.
Just like Fond in a skillet.
Great video Keith.......Thanks!!!!
Loved the sharpening demonstration. Thanks!
Agree with you about restoring Keith, some things you want patina on and some things need a full blown good as new restoration.
It all depends on what state it is to begin with and what your personal preference is.
Agreed, but if something is rare or historically significant preserving or conserving is in order. If what you have is one of thousands, all bets are off and do as you want. You could say you own a common place item but you are only the custodian of an historic item.
nice to see something that was made in the town i live in.
Great restoration job Keith. Thanks as well for linking Lance as a resource for the stone grinding. I might just send some business his way.
Thank you for the follow up and the information about Tom Utley and the fact we can order new name plates and grinding instructions. One way you can clean up your stone with out sending them away is to use a diamond hone. This produces a very sharp flat new edge. I should comment that I have two hone sets one cast iron and one plastic. A friend told me about the cast iron one at an estate sale and started to give me directions and I said oh no, you and I are going over there right now. It was the last day, everything was half price and I bought it for $7.50 and later the plastic one at a garage sale was $5.00. Both were truly lucky finds. Thanks again for the information. david
thanks for sharing!
Thanks for sharing!
Good follow up video Keith... Thank you...
Nice job and muscle memory is a wonderful thing
Silicon carbide loose grit on float glass and some water can easily and quickly flatten India, carborundum and Arkansas stones. It literally takes me minutes to achieve flatness when I maintain my stones.
Hi Keith, wanted to start by saying I love the restoration, the end result looks awesome.
Now I wouldn't normally go out of my way to criticise something like this but I trained as a typographer in a former life, so I have to say something about the recreated tags. We don't see them straight on here but in the previous video you show them clearly and, apologies to Mr. Utley, but _all_ the type is actually wrong. Practical necessity means you sometimes do have to make close-ish substitutions on something like this in order to be economically viable, but on these _this includes the lettering in the Norton cartouche_. Even as rusty as I am I could redraw those few letters in under 10 minutes with a good image as a starting point! So while we might excuse the substitutions in the rest of the text I don't think that's good enough.
For anyone who wants to do the comparison there's a fine image of an original tag in good condition on Worthpoint which you can compare with czcams.com/video/0M6gmq597J8/video.html
Awesome restoration. I have got also a few stones, Natural stone, Japanese water stones Norton India and other oilstones. I use them for precision engineering, woodworking tools, and kitchen knives.
Having to have a nice and keen sharp pocket knife or any other blade types is not being a nurd by any means. Usually the hack types carry around blades that are half dull and simply deal with the insanity of dull blade performance. Good project Keith and by the way, those oil bath sharpeners make things so convenient to make a quick stop and strop your blades to a quick tune up vs. having to remember where the stones are, get out the oil and set up etc. Very good idea Norton came up with.
Great tools!
THANK YOU...for sharing. Very nice.
i was supprised to find that you can still buy the Norton Multistone i found a Model IM313 which looks much like those you have, have sent away for a price as i have wanted one since i seen one being used by Adam Abom79
Good morning from SE Louisiana 9 Mar 21.
I completely agree with you about restoration Keith. Original patina is nice (as long as the item is serviceable), but bringing an item back to as-new condition is also interesting and a great skill as well. Overall, it should be as you say: you have every right to do with your property as you see fit.
Way cool! I look forward to Keith's nickel plating video.
Useful date: chrome plating was started around 1924, before that date it was most likely nickel plate, usually dull but sometimes then hand polished.
I tried a sharpening guide but I do my best sharpening work freehand like you.
Very Nice
In the galley (kitchen on a ship) they used food grade mineral oil. Yes, we washed the knives after sharpening but they didn’t want non food grade oil on the galley.
US Navy 23 years
Really Keith, the people who are upset about the removal of the original finish or patina. Are the ones who see the value in the aged beauty of the piece. Question boils down to what are you going to do with the piece. If your like a lot of people who enjoy using 100 year old machines to produce work. That's great, you can restore everything, your bringing back to new condition. On the other hand , if you had a historical machine which was used by Edison, Westinghouse personally. Then you may want to check on the historical value($) before restoring. When I was a lot younger I bought a 100 year old brass piece. I was so proud of my self when I clean it up nice and bright shinny as new. I destroyed a 100 years of the history of the piece. You could not tell the difference between that and a new one. The value went down by 90%. For most people on this channel I believe, would see the value in what it can produce.
Another great job! I enjoy woodworking and I understand the chisel sharpening. If a chisel isn't sharp enough that you have to careful with it, it's really not going to do fine work. I enjoy your videos!
Posted in the previous vidjayo on not ever finding one of these...well, that changed. SCORED ONE THIS PAST WEEKEND! Actually the score was freaking killer. TWO units, though one is the plastic version, but the other is the cast iron. All 6 stones look like they've never been used (still need to get a straight edge on them), then the guy came up with 3 brand new stones for it, then a set of Starrett Depth Mics AND a set of telescopic guages...Total: $250 and 2 hours of driving. I think I did OK. :) Now I found an old Jet 1325PBD (Belt Drive Lathe). It's a restoration project, and it needs a 2HP 220V single phase motor. It also has no chuck, and no tooling. I'm thinking to offer $600 for it as I've seen people say between $500~$1200, but many of those have chucks and tooling. The guy that has it owns a machine reselling company, and said he might be able to find me a chuck or two, but the motor was 100% my responsibility.
For the knife, I always sharpen away from the stone, not toward it, but I imagine both ways work.For the chisel, I was taught at school to only contact the stone on the backward or going away strokes, not both.
A very old cabinet maker told me that stones keep their flat surface if you get the habit of using every bit of the stone’s surface every time you use it. He gave me a stone that is almost perfectly flat with the date 1957 on the box.
Love Mulits! ;) Darn keystroke errors, we’ve all been there.
If your tools dull you will never do a nice job with them, I use a Tormek T8 to keep my chisels up to top notch sharpness, first course on the water wheel and the fine and to finish it of a little dance on the leather stropping wheel. When it's finished you can use the chisel as a mirror and a razor. I also use the normal stones but the water wheel is what I have been using since my childhood, my grandfather always let us use his tools and he always said if you cut in nails or dirt you will have to turn the grinding wheel until I have got the edge back. Then you learn that it's better to take good care of what you are doing and handle the tools with a little extra care. A combination of belt sanders, water wheel and honing stones and last but not least the stropping and you have the finest edges you can have.
Stay Sharp!!
Hiya Keith
At least the branch offices have street addresses. I recently saw one of those branch-office lists that just named the buildings in each city, no street addresses at all, back when buildings were known by name!
Cool beans👍
Very Nice Keith... I think rivets rolled each side would have been nice... Thanks for sharing..
I like how big those stones are, the restoration was a vast improvement over what you had. Don´t American men do any cooking, when all you have is pocket knives, and outdoorsy knives? And the wife has the kitchen knives. I have a pair of Japanese kitchen knifes that makes chopping vegetables an absolute delight. I find that cooking a good meal for your family to enjoy is a rewarding endeavor.
There’s a lot to be said for having the stones all set up and ready to go when you need them. I use water stones, also from Norton, because the oil makes a mess when you don’t have an arrangement like this one. Because I have to set up the sharpening tools from scratch each time I sharpen less often than I would like. You can’t store the water stones in water like you can oil stones so there’s always a setup of some sort. I need a similar arrangement for my water stones!
Your moment of zen.
This was a great video.
I suppose I might prompt another video. Would you discuss the advantages of pushing the knife on the stone verse the advantages of drawing the knife. You are always pulling the burr (feather edge, curl, lip) under the knife as you push. I have preferred to draw the knife and remove the burr with either a steel or strop when I am done. I know this question is way deep in the weeds. This may be one of those "I like Chevy's and you like Fords" questions.
I also wanted to ask about rotating the stones. I was taught by a chef a long time ago to always fully rotate each stone 120 degrees through each location 360 degrees before starting to sharpen the knife so that each stone was covered in oil and the oil could penetrate the stones and also wash the grit out. Your second stone was half dry as you turned it up. Again I am sorry that I am deep in the weeds. Thanks again for great information. Without great information we would not ask way deep in the weeds questions.
I was wondering if by chance the unit without the base label originally had a decal placed on it. I remember other period machinery and tools with stationary bases having decals that had information placed on it instead of the metal plate.
If you listen to the sound the blade is making on the stone, that helps, too.
I find my usb microscope lets me check the edge for nicks or a bad chamfer angle around the curve. That 3 stone Norton looks like a keeper!
Keith
Do you ever strop your knives after getting done with the oilstones? I find that they can even improve a edge that comes off a hard arkansas stone, so I strop every time after stoning, and often after every use of my favorite knives.
I made a set of leather strops that use diamond lapping paste, using 1/4in thick aluminum bar stock, Barge cement to put the leather on the aluminum, then put on the diamond lapping paste. Very affordable - the lapping paste is probably the biggest cost.
As to the sharpening of chisels, I always finish up after sharpening the bevel by going back to the flat back for a couple of passes, just in case I raised a micro-burr when doing the bevel
John
@@flat-earther
Of course you can use any polishing/lapping compound that you like.
John
I use a leather razor strap from that my Dad's and Uncle's barber shop. It removes any remaining burs.,
Did the original not have knobs on the ends I seem to remember my grandfather's did? He was a butcher for many years and I can remember him using it evey day.
From what I've seen, the oldest ones don't have knobs - they have thick machined ends with either grooves or hex edges like Keith's. Essentially, the 'knobs' are machined right into the bar. Others, and especially the new models, have much narrower ends with added knobs.
@6:30... Perhaps the new labels are printed on Tyvek (tm)?
Nice!! Interesting...:-)
Great comments about restoration - SOME things are worth keeping in their original patina - especially VERY rare items - I think that's because it keeps the reference to the original materials, colours, etc. Mass-Produced machines are in a different category - They were built to be USED, and finishes are often rough castings and machined areas. Preserving them means that often they are no longer usable, as worn areas, bearings, etc may be worn out. It's always a toss-up and personal call about whether you do a 100% restoration or Preservation. Is it worth it to restore? It depends on whether you want to USE it or PRESERVE it!
Keith, GREAT videos! Are you at all concerned about the paint durability where it’s in constant contact with the oil?
I have to be honest: I was, right up until you started sharpening... that oil looks silky smooth!
Muscle memory!
GREAT FOLLOW UP, GREAT VIDEO, [ NOW LET'S GO TO WORK...]
Can you do another follow up video on how clean and maintain stones. Both natural and synthetic? As I had stated in the previous video, I have some stones from my father and they are quite dirty. Does it make a difference between a stone that uses oil and ones that uses water?
Would it do to treat those installed drive screws as rivets to peen the sharp points flat to assist in the laying of those lid labels flat?
The other option for flattening the stones is to get your hands on a diamond plate. You can do it yourself.
As for the chisels, I spend a lot of time fixing "hand sharpened" chisels. Theres a big difference when a bevel is right.
A dull knife will cut you faster than a sharp one...... I am sure you've heard that old saying. Speaking from experience it is true....can't count the times I've cut myself with a dull knife trying to get it to cut through something that a sharp one would cut easily.
All three look just great.
10wt non detergent el cheapo motor oil works well too
You should spray some clear coat over the instruction label ... it should protect the labels and make them last longer
Can those be used to sharpen lathe tools? Carbide or hss.
I enjoyed both videos, I use to do it that way, but I discovered that using a diamond+Steel plate (or plastic) does a better job and a faster job, but I do not use the finer grits, just the 180 grit. (currently I use a three grit pack from Harbor freight) That leaves fine serrations that cut meat (and fingers) with less effort and with better control of where the blade goes. Ron W4BIN
There is restoration and preservation, and people confuse the terms. Restoration is making it look like new and functional, preservation maintains patina while making it functional.
Keith, how did you get the old drive screws out? And what length did you get fir the new ones?
Patina is a fancy name for neglect.
he needs more lied please
8:30 Behr-Manning was purchased by Norton in 1931 but they stopped using that name in the mid-50's, according to Wikipedia. So that label is from somewhere in that era.
The building on Barclay Street in NYC looks like it's still there, but I don't think they're selling any sharpening stones or oil out of there anymore.
The company does still make them, maybe not at that location.
www.nortonabrasives.com/en-us/sharpening-stones
I could listen to the sound of that blade being drug across those stones all day......
Those stickers look original. Is it expensive to get it done?
Hi! You were referred to me as someone who might be able to repair an antique Tjhat level that we have. Can you help? I can send you pictures if needed. Thanks!
Guys, this is not an art object, not a museum piece. It is a tool. The best way to show respect for it is not to preserve the patina, but to use it.
I think there is a typo in the intro.
"restoration" is returning something to as new condition...
"Conservation" is keeping something to as original used condition...
🇬🇧👍
I see you wearing an apron over an apron.... LOL You just can't stand to let that new leather apron get messed up.... Can't blame you....!
You said that knife was Damascus? I would have liked to have seen a close up of that blade. I’m a big fan of Damascus steel.
If those are the same knives I’m thinking of, they were made by Schenk Knives in Idaho. They do some outstanding Damascus knives. I believe they also sell Damascus billet stock to other knifemakers as well. Full disclosure: I’m connected to the Schenk family through in-laws of in-laws. They are a lot of fun to hang out with when I get to see them.
Can you really get a sharp blade without a strop?
Where the heck do you even find one of these beauty's?
Got one!!! Haha
You mention the fonts, I noticed in the first video at 10 mins czcams.com/video/0M6gmq597J8/video.html that the E of the original has a shortened middle bar but the replicas have equal bars. I have used the site www.identifont.com/identify.html to find old fonts by their description. It can be a very tedious process going through many many questions but often you end up with an exact match.
The kerning looks a bit off in a few places too. Like between the O R in NORTON, between the I L in OIL. So it goes for graphic art wonks. I worked at companies were in-house artists created custom fonts for official logos and tag phrases.
i dont know any way to contact you besides this, check out the bridgeport true trace 3d milling machine on facebook marketplace its in Pa. really cool machine would love to see a video on somthing like this , i would like to have it to collect it
Great sharpening system..... have to get one, you reminded me how nice they are. I use a sharpening guide.... my preference..... with plane and chisel blades they are great for me
If a vintage item or house or even real estate is not "relevant" to today's economic, cultural or even political climate it will be destroyed by neglect or demolition. So sometimes changing an old thing to make it "relevant" will save the item even if changes it from the original. Jay Leno puts subtle updates on his historic cars so they can be driven and people can get enthusiastic about old cars. The demolition of a Victorian extension to Chiswick House en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiswick_House restored the building's purpose and it now visited by tens of thousands of people. But a Battle of Britain Hurricane was given to the Smithsonian with a new paint job but the Smithsonian has very carefully stripped this off to make the aircraft more original. "Relevant" is the key concept and Mr Rucker is a master.
Two people restoring two different ways is twice the restoring, instead of melted down for scrap and lost.
Sharp tools are safer.