Pod Point Solo EV Charger Installation.
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- čas přidán 6. 11. 2021
- In this video I show the complete installation of a Pod Point Solo 7kW EV charging unit with a Proteus sub DB and EV Ultra cable. Full live testing is demonstrated using a Megger EVCA210 car adaptor and MFT1741+.
www.abcelectric.co.uk
NICEIC registered electricians
OZEV approved EV charge point installer
Electrician in Altrincham, Greater Manchester
EV Charger Installation UK
OZEV approved EV charge point installer
Consumer unit swaps
Full/partial rewires
Outside lighting specialist
EICRs
Addition of socket outlets and lighting points
#abcelectric
#electricianaltrincham
#evcharger
#electricianlife
#sparkylife
#podpoint
I like the podpoints, simple but reliable, I've got one thats over 10 years old, still works great.
Nice video! The Elland Procell EV cable has the cores screened in each pair. Something we like that is different to EV ultra. Keep the videos going.
Thanks Mark. I enjoy your videos too 👍
Nice install Gary. NB you should use a 2 core screened cable for CT as it can read incorrectly if using unscreened or cat 5/6 cable. Nice to see a thorough job!
Thanks Paul. The data cable is screened and I earth the outer foil. I use Cat 5 because some installations require more pairs (like Wallbox, Zappi etc). The data cable (Cat 5 or twin) is part of the EV Ultra cable and has to be screened as well as LV insulated to comply with regs 👍
Great stuff bud,apprentice👍
Hi Gary, been watching your vids for a while and like the straightforward way you go about things.
I’ll be fitting my first charge point within the next few weeks (DNO dependant!!)
Would you be able to give me a couple of pointers on the ENA application form??
Cheers pal.
Hi Bazza. The ENA form looks worse than it is but my main tips are get the MPAN number, calculate Maximum Demand, check the Earthing arrangement and most importantly whether you can identify a looped service. The critical boxes are whether Maximum Demand exceeds 13.8kVA, or in other words is it greater than 60A, and if it's a looped service. If either of these are ticked the DNO may need to do remedials - either a cutout upgrade or unlooping the supply and either will delay the installation. With the Pod Point I tick the CT monitoring box, because you're basically limiting the MD to 60A, unless of course the property's load is higher beforehand. Regarding the last section about the ENA database- just ignore it. Hope that helps and good luck
great video, thanks. One question though, is the proteus EV unit the correct rating for short circuit as you are straight off the tails? 6kA instead of 16kA?
It's no different to a larger consumer unit being off the tails. Those breakers are rated at 6kA also. If your Ze is above approximately 0.04 then your PFC can't be higher than 6kA. I've never come across a Ze that low. I think you might be confusing different regs, but I don't have them with me on site now and can't quote anything specific. I'm also pretty sure that Proteus or any other manufacturer wouldn't sell a sub DB designed to be supplied from tails that wasn't to regs
Good skills, couldn't fault that install, shame the drill bit didn't just sneak behind that timber! lol
Convenient that your camera battery ran out just as you were about to connect the Henley blocks !
Hi, great videos and very helpful. .Getting a Pod Point Solo 3 installed indoors within my garage for a hybrid car in the next week or so.. Electrician has recommended installing a Proteus 40a ev metal clad distribution board with pme fault detection (~£170). Is having PME overkill or even needed?. Have an existing metal clad board with RCBOs and a spare slot. Was wondering why the that cannot be used with a Proteus B32 TYPE B. Tails were upgraded last year as have 3 distribution boards already (2 plastic), 100A main breaker.
Hi Deepak. PME fault protection (more commonly known as PEN or O-PEN protection) is required for PME (TN-C-S) supplies. This is because the Earth and Neutral (PEN conductor) is combined in the supply cable, and under certain fault conditions, the N & E could float to dangerously high potentials. Due to TN-S supplies gradually being replaced by the DNOs or being connected to TN-C-S upstream, it's also required to assume that PEN protection is needed on TN-S supplies as well.
Now, here's the thing. Nearly every charger sold for the UK market incorporates PEN protection as standard. The only one I know that doesn't is the Tesla Wall Connector. So, fitting PEN protection upstream of a Pod Point, Zappi, Ohme Pro, Pulsar Max, Hypervolt, etc, is a complete waste of time and money.
Next issue is that according to latest regs you really need a Type 2 SPD fitting and the charger must be protected by a DP Type A 30mA RCD, or an RCBO of the same nature that disconnects the Neutral under a fault condition. Only a few manufacturers make a switched neutral RCBO, so having an RCBO board may not be ideal.
PEN protection and DP RCD/RCBO protection are 2 separate things. Finally, if there's an upstream DP RCD of the correct type with only 1 charger connected, then you'd just need an OCPD, so yes, under those conditions a 32A B curve MCB would suffice. Remember that the OCPD is rated for the cable, not the connected device.
It's not that difficult, really. In layman's terms you need to select cable size to suit the device current and installed voltage drop, then fit an OCPD rated to protect the cable/device from fire or injury from overheating and short circuit, then 30mA Type A Additional Protection to protect life, then PEN protection to protect life, then SPD protection to prevent damage and any consequences from overvoltages.
Last thing, especially as it's going in a garage, is to make sure that all required services and any extraneous conductive parts are equipotentially bonded, so there's no possibility of a simultaneous touch potential.
Anyone that understands the Regs and EVCPs can figure this out quite easily.
I hope that clarifies
What do you charge to install one of these?
Hey bud. Great video. Any specific reason why there’s no AC isolator? Pod points manual ask you to install one, and I’m fitting one today. Unless I’ve read it wrong. Cheers
It's got to be supplied from a dedicated final circuit, so the MCB or RCBO is the isolator
Gary, im due to have a solo fitted soon but my consumer unit is around 25yrs old the cartridge fuse wylex type! Will the installer not undertake installation? Or will they do same as you fit a sub db?
Exc videos
Hi mate. Sounds like they'll have no choice other than to fit a sub DB
Nice install! You didn’t show us the nice fella who pulled the main fuse for you?
🤣👍
Excellent content Gary really enjoyed that! If I could ask advice? My pod point has been fitted today while I was at work. I’ve plugged the car in and it’s charging at 2kw, I was expecting 7kw. All the settings in the car are at max so can’t understand it. Anything “go to” with these units from your experience? Cheers.
Thanks Steve. 3 things spring to mind. 1. The DIP switches haven't been set properly inside the unit (but I doubt that unless the installer was very inexperienced. 2. The CT clamp is modulating the unit output down because you're pulling nearly 60A at the main cut-out. The output will ramp up again as the oven, shower or other household loads stop being used. 3. If the car's already at 80% charge you'll only get trickle charging for the last 20% or so. Hope that helps
@@abcelectric thanks for your reply Gary. The charger last night supplied 23.1kw in 9h30 mins, so around 2.5kw per hour. The house has an 80a main fuse and the car was on 30%. Fingers crossed it’s those switches inside. I’ve sent a message to podpoint so hopefully it’ll be cured otherwise my electric bill will be rising and my £600 investment will not payback as soon:(. I’ll be sure to let you know the outcome. Thanks again. I’ve subscribed to your channel👍
Interesting Steve. Out of the box the Pod Point's internal switches are set to minimum output, so that's definitely a likely possibility. (Poor from the installer though if they haven't been correctly set). There are other factors but too complicated to explain here. Assuming it's connected to WiFi Pod Point should be able to remotely diagnose the issue. Those switches however can only be manually configured. Good luck with it 👍
@@abcelectric all sorted Gary! You were correct in your diagnosis, the fitter hadn’t set something up in the charger. Podpoint used some kind of witchcraft and solved it over the phone remotely, it’s now giving a good 7kw charge. Thanks for your help and advice👍
Hi Gary, what is the other cable coming out of the consumer unit? It looks like telephone or intruder alarm cable. Great to view your videos. Take care.
That's the shielded twisted pairs data cable part from the EV Ultra cable, which I use for CT clamp
What is the name of the wire stripper you used when stripping the wires inside the sub db?
It's either the Knipex Egostrip or the Jakari. Not watched the video in ages so don't remember
would you think a car charger at home would be a good investment I have a phev so only a small battery to charge I use a 3 pin charger looked at installing a pod point but is the £600 outlay worth it ie would you think it would increase house prices/save money on charging at times with the pod point app charging and also better safety features for my car with the pod point unit cheers
Safety wise I'd always recommend a properly installed EVCP, however the rest is subjective. You're only charging 30 miles with a hybrid so you could get a full charge in 1 hour instead of about 2.5 if that's important to you. Regarding house prices I have no idea. I've removed and reinstalled several chargers for clients moving home, however the application process still has to be followed for the new property. It's all dependant on your unique situation
Thanks for the informative video i am just researching before doing a course
am i going to need to upgrade my 1740 to the 1741+ like yours to be able to test the charge points
or will my current tester suffice for now
Hard to say, but you should be fine with the 1741.
Did you cut the seal on the meter for your henley blokes.?
I'll leave that answer to your imagination...
Hi, does the pod point have a rear entry point so the cable is not visible?
It does, however it's a 20mm gland size, which means that EV Ultra cable won't fit through it.
Hi Gary
Nice video.😢
Why no spd included in the install?
Hi Alan. Purely for cost, because they're not mandatory. This video was prior to Amm. 2, but they're still not mandatory even now on domestic installations. I don't think SPDs are even mentioned in the EV Charging Equipment Installations Guide 4th Edition, but I'm not 100% on that. More recently, if I'm fitting a new DB I generally include an SPD, but to reiterate, they aren't mandatory in BS7671
Question we've just moved home and brought our podpoint sole 3 with us. It turns out we have a loop need with the nextdoor neighbour what would be the safest setting to use with out damaging the supply coming in to the house the main feed coming in has an 80 amp fuse on the feed
First of all you need to notify the DNO that you're going to fit an EV charger. To use it at full potential you'll have to get the supply unlooped and submit an "Application to Connect", which is different to the Notification to Connect. In either case you need permission and in the latter they will automatically "unloop" you. In the interim you could set the charger to say 16A max and ask PodPoint to set the CT clamp to say 40A. All just my suggestions. Either way, you should be employing a certified electrician conversant in EV to do the survey, application/notification, installation, testing, certification etc and they should know all this
Good job Gary , I work around greater Manchester just fitted project EV , nightmare to set up, just started with OZEV, looking for a go to EV manufacturer that’s easy to set up etc , what’s your preference? , thanks.
Hi Declan. Thanks. Pod Point is my go-to charger. PEN protection, 6mA RDC-DD and load management built in. Easy to fit and set up. Wallbox are very similar. Every m/f is slightly different so no 2 chargers are the same, but you get used to them after a couple of installs.
Hypervolt, Sync EV, zappi these pod points are crap, don't touch them.
Each to their own mate. I've fitted dozens of these and never had an issue with a single one. If they were crap I wouldn't still be fitting them
Hi Gary.
Nice video with a lot of info for such as myself as a customer, the one thing I can't seem to find an answer too is why you have to have 3 phase in order to run an 11Kwh charger,
forgive my ignorance as I say I'm a consumer not a sparky, but I have a 10.8 Kw shower which is near as makes no difference 11Kw on single phase so the need for 3 phase for a charger
eludes me, could you please explain.
All The Best
Paul.
Hi Paul. The answer is that it's a combination of things in the wiring regulations, EV code of practice and the DNO's supply conditions. Maximum Demand and Diversity are the main players in the wiring regs. A 10.8kW shower pulls nearly 50A on its own, however it's only on for maybe 10 minutes. A car charger could be on for 12 hours though. A lot of service cut outs are still rated at 60A but even if it was 100A there wouldn't be enough spare capacity for maximum demand when all other loads are accounted for. In your case you couldn't have a charger anyway if you've got a 10.8 kW shower. The calculations would show your maximum demand at well over 100A, so the supply infrastructure would be inadequate and you'd blow the main fuse. You have to account for everything being used simultaneously such as oven, shower, hob, sockets, EV charger etc etc. A 10.8kW shower is a heavy load, but only used for a short time, so the chances of tripping the service fuse are relatively small due to the time/current characteristics of the main fuse. It's an entirely different story with a 50A charger potentially pulling that high load for 8 or so hours. If you even had a 7kW charger there you'd be WAY over the limits. You can't get limitless current to a property and the regs are there because overloading the supply cables is dangerous and expensive to repair. There are other factors too, but basically the regulations are in place because of the laws of physics and the health and safety of consumers etc. Overheating cables can cause fire. If I was you I'd get an EICR done to check that you're not already exceeding maximum demand with a 10.8kW shower and that everything is safe as it is. If you have an electric hob/oven and any other big loads (however intermittent) you're probably already pushing the limit. The closest analogy I can think of is trying to fill an Olympic swimming pool with a narrow hose pipe in 5 minutes - the hose is going to burst!
@@abcelectric Thanks for that Gary all makes sense at last.
Good video, is it possible to buy the podpoint charger and get a local electrician to install it?
i would ask you but I'm too far away.
You could do that, however I'd be tempted to ask an electrician to quote the whole job as there's a lot more to it than that. Permission from the DNO is required and often the installation will determine the charger model. It's too big a subject to discuss here
@@abcelectric Thanks, I'll get onto it.
What size of cable from DB to charging point is used?
4 or 6mm depending on voltage drop
I have a 7 kw pod pointed fitted recently ,on my vehicle app it shows over 5 hour charge 20 miles per hour and on the app output 6 kw from the charger , first time for me to charge the car , pod point told me when purchasing I should receive 30 mile per hour charge
This type of question drives me crazy. It's information that's freely available almost everywhere online and should also be communicated by car and charger manufacturers. Any 7kW home car charger is theoretically capable of charging at nominally 30 miles/hour under perfect conditions. These conditions rarely exist. The charger ramps down its output when other loads are on in the house to prevent blowing the main fuse. The car modulates the charger input to prevent damage to the battery and to maximise battery life (just like a phone does). The car's AC/DC converter has a part to play. Temperature has a part. Supply characteristics and power factor might play a part. There are loads of reasons why you might not achieve 30 miles per hour charging over a charging cycle. It's just the nature of the beast. At least give it a few goes under various conditions day and night to get a truer representation. If you want or need to charge a car from 0-100% in less than 10-12 hours, then my advice is to go to a fast charger. Otherwise, accept that unless you've got 100% perfect conditions, it will most probably vary from day to day.
@@abcelectric thanks for the reply , like Bernard bresslaw used to say , i only asked
It amazing job , which fuses box you used and where can i buy it please
Thanks
The one I used on this job isn't suitable for current regs. You need an SPD and a switched neutral RCD or RCBO to comply now. Pretty standard stuff for an electrician to source.
@@abcelectricthanks,
Should the RCD not be double pole to break both live conductors according to the regs?
The Regs DO NOT state that the RCD should be double pole, they state that they should disconnect all live conductors. (722.531.3.1). In 722.531.3.101 it states the type of RCDs that comply and it is one of those.
the neutral is a live conductor
please check that out
@@sparczzz I know Neutral is a live conductor. I am aware of the difference between a live and a line conductor etc. Look up the regs that I quoted to satiate yourself as to what they actually say. I think you have misunderstood my reply. I never said it didn't disconnect the N, but that the regs don't mention a DP RCD. There is a difference between a true DP device and a SP device that also disconnects the neutral. Don't confuse terms
is the energy clamp necessary or will the charger work without
As far as I'm aware the CT clamp needs to be fitted for the unit to work properly. I believe Pod Point can bypass it over WiFi if necessary, however it's an integral safety device to prevent overload of the main cut-out. I'd suggest contacting Pod Point directly to ask them
I retired a long time ago now and would be classed "Old School" Spark but I would never take two cables through one gland, it is simply bad practice.
I would also drill through a wall from the inside to outside especially in this case as it was through and split the wooded door frame.
It's one combined cable that contains both data and power. If it was 2 separate cables I would use 2 glands. The rear access to the unit is only designed for a 20mm gland, so with a 25mm gland bottom entry is required. The bending radius of the EV Ultra cable is also such that a 90 degree bend isn't possible so an alternative solution is required. If you'd worked with this cable you'd understand the difficulties
Stick to your retirement
So instead you rip the arse out the facing brick, that'd look good.
You can make a bit of a mess drilling through to the outside, those bricks split out easily.
will it work with out installing the CT
If it's set up properly, yes
I ordered my PodPoint and the contractor who wired it up, did so incorrectly 🤦🏻
It wasn’t until my EV turned up a week later, that we found out, when it wouldn’t charge. It took PodPoint 10 days to respond; and so in the meantime, we had to use an expensive charger at the local BP garage. Not even an apology from them 🥴
I have a Pod Point SL 3261 that is rated at 32A, but my is doing no more than 14A. How can I set it to 20A, or any other settings?
This model does not have DIP switches.
Hi Mladen. I don't like these types of questions because I don't know your installation parameters and there may well be a very good reason that your Pod Point is limited, such as maximum demand, main cut-out rating, or numerous other reasons, and ignoring these would be potentially dangerous. The first port of call is therefore to contact your installer directly and take it up with them. After that, I suggest you contact Pod Point directly, and if the installation was correctly notified, they should have the relevant site information to enable them to increase your output with an over the air update.
@@abcelectric Thank you quick answer.
Car that is using it is my Renault Zoe imported from Norway. It came with Pod Point and Isolation transformer (as Norway has specific ground connection). Here it does not need isolation transformer. Probably not to overload the transformer, it is limited to 13A. House it is in has 50A servise, and garage has 3x4mm cable with 25A fuse. So I wanted to set to 20A, to speed up the charging process.
I contacted Pod Point UK and Norway, but they did not reply.
Hi Mladen. That is not a great setup and I don't know where (or if) the CT clamp is connected. You still need to contact your installer or Pod Point by phone or email to get an over the air update. If it's not connected to a WiFi network then you can't change it anyway. If it is connected, you can access the settings through 192.168.1.101, but with that poor garage setup, you shouldn't really have anything other than a 16A radial socket circuit and a 6A lighting circuit on it. It's just not suitable for an EVCP other than a granny charger, and you and your dad should know that
@@abcelectric Thank you, again.
We did 3 phase mod - when EVSE goes to active state, it turns on L1 and N. That signal is routed to 20A 2 pole contactor that turns on L2 and L3. Cars sees normal 3 phase supply and it takes 9kW (we have measured 13.4A with current clamp at each phase)
We put RCD for protection and 3 phase 16A before the EVSE.
Here 3 phase is the norm, and most homes have 3 phase 25A service.
Location is Serbia.
@@Mladjasmilic 😂 And from the information you provided previously all I could deduce was a 1-ph supply in the UK. I have no idea about the regulations in Norway or Serbia, but it still doesn't add up that you've got a 3-core 4mm supplying 3-phase. Where's the Neutral and Earth in that? Surely you need at least 4 cores even with a balanced neutral, or are you pulling earth from a TT system? Look Mladen, I don't know your setup enough and I don't know the regs in Serbia. I fit 7kW 1-ph domestic models to UK Regs. If you've got a 3-ph 22 kW version then why all the skulduggery with a contactor and where are your N and E connections? Why not just wire it as L1, L2, L3, (N) & E straight in? Set up the CT clamps to limit the phases to 16-20A or whatever you need to do. From the current readings you've given, are you also aware that the AC-DC converters in a lot of vehicles won't allow charging above about 11kW total anyway? You could supply it directly from a substation and the car wouldn't pull more than about 16A per phase anyway. You'd need to go DC to get more than 11kW into a typical car. Check the IP access protocol for the model you've got and you can get into settings over WiFi or a temporary hotspot. Just type 192.168.1.101 (normally anyway) into your connected browser window and you should get to all the Pod Point installer configurable settings. Check your vehicle can work with an AC input over 9kW, but I would guess you're maxing out the AC-DC converter if you can't get a reading over 13A. After that, I can't help anymore without being in Serbia!
Gary, nice video but incorrect use of twisted pair cable. You should just use one pair, with a single cable going to each terminal, so that any interference impacts equally on both sides of the connection and is cancelled out. The way you have connected it defeats the objective.
Also couldn't see surge protection device installed and why not use a roper tail clamp, plus provide some support for the tails, as installed they look just about right for a child to swing on.
Hi Alan. The twisted pair isn't exactly carrying corruptible data. It's just the return signal from the CT, which I believe is converted to a 0-10V DC voltage for the load limiting function. Also, all 8 cores are next to each other in a screened shield. I think the way I'm using it for signal cable is perfectly satisfactory. SPDs aren't mandatory in domestic or EV installations and this was installed prior to Amm 2, where they are still not mandatory. I always clip my tails, (there's plenty of clear evidence in my other videos), however in this case I did it after filming, including the supplier's tails that they hadn't clipped either. Well spotted though. Nice to see you're on the ball. Just remember this is an edited site video, not an EV or BS7671 training course.
Hi mate, good vid. I am due to fit my first EV charger, it's a Pod Point like this and I have a question - Before you take the pics and call Pod Point etc am I right in saying that you have to get it onto the wifi first? Do I need the customer's phone with the Pod Point app on it to do this or am I able to do it easily on my own?
Cheers
Cheers Matthew. Yes, you need to connect it to WiFi before contacting Pod Point and the only thing you need for commissioning is the client's WiFi details. You don't need their phone or the Pod Point app for any part of it. I've got a separate video on the Pod Point commissioning process which talks you through that process in more detail with a few practical hints on the best way to go about it, which could potentially save you a couple of hours and a lot of head scratching if you follow it
@@abcelectric Excellent, thanks Gary, I'll have a look at it. Many thanks
I definitely wouldn't be doing one on the grant scheme, what a hassle, although the grant scheme will be gone in April
The paperwork is a bit of a bind however the grant scheme isn't going completely - it's just shifting focus to rental properties, landlords, SMEs etc
The pod point application and product is not great comparing to zappi, hypervolt or easee. But it's a nice video.
Naughty boy, you removed the main fuse and broke the seal on the meter.
Why didn’t you fit a 100a double pole isolator and make life easier for the
next electrician working on the system
I always ask the client to contact their energy provider to fit a 2-pole isolator beforehand. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. I have given up trying to contact ENWL or SP to pull cutouts. As with every electrician I do what I have to to do the job and if that involves pulling the main fuse and cutting seals so be it. I don't price for or fit an isolator because I have asked for it to be done. Pulling the fuse isn't really any different to flicking a switch so thats my answer. Practicality and safe working
You are allowed to pull the main fuse anyway, just make sure you reseal them with the appropriate installer specific seals.
People are still fitting pod points?
Yes
Very informative video. Thanks.
My property has a 60 amp fuse, will this be ok for ev charger (by pod point)? If not, what should I do?
Would really appreciate your help.
Thank you
Hi Dipak. It's not that simple. It depends what other loads your property is pulling. Also permission from the DNO is required. I suggest you ask a local certified electrician experienced in EV chargers to do a pre-installation survey and then you can get a definitive answer
@@abcelectric thank you for your reply 😊 will update u
How did you connect those meter tails to your "Henly blocks"???????
That's a lot of question marks Roger. How do you think I did it? It wouldn't be very safe to do it with them live would it.
@@abcelectric yes, well, I believe that you called the DNO prior to commencement of the job and had the meter tails isolated so they may be safely worked on and then re-enegized once the work was completed.
Hi guys if anybody can give me work experience. I lived-in Manchester eared cheers
Did you not feel the need to install an spd device which is mandatory for these and a 16mm main earth not a 10mm which doesn’t satisfy anything with 16mm tails. Sad thing is some poor customer has paid you to do this as well and it’s non compliant with the 18th edition wiring regs to amendment 2!!
Hi Ashley. It was installed prior to Amm. 2, so an SPD wasn't required. A 10mm main earth satisfies the adiabatic equation and the Regs, which you should know.
When you look at the internals of these EV chargers and what companies charge for them, I do feel we, the public, are getting screwed big time.
Can't say I agree. 5m+ of expensive cable to car, car adaptor, 6mA RDC-DD, internals rated at 32A continuous, casing, WiFi, Bluetooth or ethernet connectivity, built in PEN protection, associated R&D, distribution etc etc. Then the distributors add a wedge, then it has to be fitted with generally a 6mm supply, data, type A RCD, extensive testing etc. It's not cheap technology
@@abcelectric some charging stations come untethered and still high price even without cables. The tech you mentioned has been around for years so not some tech where they have spent millions on R&D. There isn’t £600+ of Components in any of these boxes😌
Don't buy one then Doug. Economics is based on supply and demand and every level of the supply chain has to make a profit. As economy of scale feeds in the prices will drop. In the meantime you can ride a horse and complain about the price of hay
@@abcelectric I'm not planning to buy one, I was at one point. I am fortunate not to do high mileage, so a day on the 3kw plug for me will do. Horse being the car, hay being electricity, so if I had to install an overpriced hay dispenser that might be an accurate comparison.
Whatever Doug. You are obviously here just to prove something to yourself and try to get a rise. Why else would you be watching and commenting on an EV charger video if you're not interested in buying one, let alone the specific attributes of installing a particular model?
@