Stoicism or Christianity…or Both?
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- čas přidán 6. 08. 2024
- I’ve had a number of people asked me the relation between stoicism and Christianity, or the differences between them or more specifically how can a Christian follow both? This video is my simple, poor attempt to answer that question.
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I’m grateful there are older men on CZcams like you who can give guidance and advice to the younger men and younger generations of people. I think our society needs more people like you, now more than ever...
We are meant to have sages in our society and they are few and far between.
👍👍👍
Yes!
@@YaChoombaagree
🙏
My favorite quote by Marcus Aurelius: Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth. The wisdom you share in your videos and Meditations has had a great effect on my growth as a man
Truth is knowable. Just My truth? Just your truth? Nope. THE TRUTH.
That guy is like my North Star or my lighthouse of sorts. I don’t worship anyone or anything but the sun, and never pray to it. Just grateful it’s there to give us the opportunity to be stoic.
There are some absolute truths....regardless of perspective on them.
Experiential Truths Mean the same result is achieved every time...
But Overall, I believe Aurelius is "Truthful"...LOL
He never actually said that
@thinkingagain5966 upon looking into it further. You're right. I do think it is important to see it this way, though. With how little control we have over everything and everevolving information that continues to disprove old facts. Thankyou for bringing that up
Stoicism is the study of the four virtues (courage, justice, temperance and wisdom) and how we can develop those things in ourselves, which is under our control.
"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."
If there by ANY virtue, think on these things. Outside of the doctrine of salvation and theology, I don't see any way in which these things are opposed. Studying and thinking about virtue is always a good thing in my opinion.
Thank you. I feel that you brought that out much better than I did.
@@DryCreekWranglerSchool Thank you, sir! its actually funny you say that, because i've recently been so drawn to stoicism, while also being a Christian. Your post just helped me realize that maybe i'm not the only one
Indeed, I agree aswell.
Not only opposed but Saint August of Hipona, basically, merged Stoicism with early Christianity
@@jordanrhodes4001 literally had the same exact thoughts . And the fact that Dwayne makes a video on the topic and see others feeling the same way is my sign from the father that which you eloquently pointed out is a nice addition to biblical truths and foundation. Love this community
"out of all the Greeks the Oracle thought I was the brightest one, for I knew that I knew nothing". -Plato, I believe.
Written by Plato, but said by Socrates.
@@gobgaming2725 a man with all the questions. Crazy how wanting to understand different perspectives led to his demise.
@@Lord-Of-Wings people tend to get persecuted for speaking/seeking the truth. We need more Socrates’ in our world.
@@gobgaming2725 we already have a hand full of ppl. some of them already got punished tho
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing."
- Socrates
Great video! The apostle Paul was greatly influenced by Stoicism. He would engage with Stoic philosophers at the Areopagus, which was a high court where Paul delivered one of his famous Christian sermons. Many of the Stoic philosophers ended up becoming followers of Paul and his messages of Christianity. Stoicism came a few hundred years before Christianity, and Paul even quoted a student from the school of Zeno (the founder of Stoicism) in his sermon.
Both Stoicism and Christianity offer peace, security, love, and teach humanitarianism. Stoics believe in "Armor Fati," or the love of fate, which is very similar to the Christian prayer of “not my will, but YOUR will be done.”
You can be a Christian, you can be a Stoic, and you can be a Christian Stoic, but you can't be a Christian hating Stoicism or a Stoic hating Christianity because the viewpoints of either come to a standstill and to do one would lead to not aligning with either. Marcus Aurelius, one of the most famous Stoics, says this: “If someone can prove me wrong and show me my mistake in any thought or action, I shall gladly change. I seek the truth, which never harmed anyone: the harm is to persist in one's own self-deception and ignorance.” Equip yourself with this knowledge if you ever have to argue for one or the other.
Stoicism also embraces all walks of life and sees humanity as a whole or "one". So know that you are always welcome here. We are all fighting different battles, and there is nothing new under the sun. I have become a better Christian by equipping myself with stoic knowledge and practices.
That would be incorrectly put.
If you’re going to get on here and tell somebody that what they say is wrong, then you are expected to have the honesty and the intelligence and the ability to point out your opposing view. Laziness and a dismissive attitude are not widely accepted over here.
Just a word of caution with charity.
Colossians 2:8 KJV
[8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
@@KJBTRUTHvery true this is where discernment comes thru by the holy spirit. Blessings
Never clicked on a notification so fast before
fr
Same
Same bro
Lol me too 😂
Real
Another incredible video. Stoic philosophy contributed to my return to my Christian faith (as did Dewayne's wise words), and I think it works very well alongside it. In fact, one of my daily prayers is 'The Serenity Prayer' which is effective in incorporating the main tenets of Stoicism.
Thank you so much for your observations and advice, Mr. Noel. I just watched this with my eight year old son, and he loved it too (I've read him the Bible and Marcus Aurelius, so he appreciated this). God bless 🙏🏼❤️🔥✝️
never clicked so faster. looking forward to taking in your take on this matter.
Can always count on this man's wisdom.
Hey Dwayne, my name is Jack, and I just want to say thank you to you and Momma.. my wife moved out last week, and we are going to talk about us in 2 days and see where we are going to try and go with this. I needed to say thank you because both of you have helped me take a step back and assess the last couple of years of our marriage and where I have been wrong. I've watched most of your videos over the past week multiple times, and it's helped me develop better problem solving skills, communication, listening, patience, and most of all and understanding of myself and who I want to be and how I want to get there. I've only been around for a week or so, but you guys can expect me to stick around, that's for sure! I hope all is well with you and your lady and wish you both a great day!
Even when you are gone, you will live on! Thank you for sharing you wisdom
"He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls."
Proverbs 25 : 28
Three years ago, while battling addiction, that verse became a reassurance to me to continue studying philosophy, going to counseling, and engaging in a men's group even when a dear family member who, very much in the camp of "Only God can do it", raised concerns and objections to such things.
Wisdom sought outside of oneself with humility and understanding will indeed make wise, but wisdom sought with pride and presumption will make one even more foolish than at his beginning. Excellent topic for discussion, thank you Dewayne.
Humility is the key. PHILLIPIANS 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than themselves.
I appreciate you taking the time to discuss this topic and sharing your wisdom.
Tbh my whole life I grew up without a father and your videos really help me understand things that even at home I wouldn't have been taught, thank you very much❤
Hope u feel better sir god bless u an family! Always good to listen to u ! 🙏🏻
The power of discernment. That's what you spoke on.
@@user-gc6wd7dm4w The author of contradiction is the limit of the individual human mind that is being guided toward The Truth... It can not and never shall it be able to comprehend God, The Truth, as carnal mind is limited, as is all of this world, utterly incapable of conceiving of Eternal and Infinite Perfection that is The Lord... How can something so individual, so limited, so case specific, unable to even fathom the number that would correspond to the current total count of every singular atomic subparticle in the universe - fathom the Perfection of God, which by necessity is both Infinite and Eternal, something we can not comprehend fully... We can speak of the notion, but the Eternity of Life-everlasting, of God is antithesis of time as we know it, as time both has the point at which it began, and has a point at which it will come to an end... Infinity which is the only word we have to describe the totality of The Father is the antithesis of the limited space, of the universe, which like the mathematical function of limes - able to tend to be inclined towards Infinity, but never reaching it...
The point of it all is your personal faith, devotion to the fire at the altar of your mind, which gets confirmed and transformed into conviction that surpasses in time any and all inputs from the senses, any and all temptation to believe that God has forsaken you at any moment, for you have asked, and you have been answered... You heard the call, and you answered yourself, and now you go, knowing that the path before you is the path you need to walk in full conviction that God goes with you, and that at the end of that path, you shall be delivered unto ``the gates of heaven``... To put it crudely... It`s all a lot of symbols that try to depict and convey that which is beyond comprehension available to those captivated the deep sleep that fell upon Adam... By the dream of suits of flesh as the Bible puts it...
The real discernment is being able to see the answers to your prayers, and in that alone have your faith turned into conviction... Something that is partially also required for the prayer to be answered, as it relies on your faith that God has received it, and has already answered it, even if you can not see the fruits as of yet... The faith is the substance of the things hoped for... There you have another quote from the Bible... Just as the answers to peoples prayers differ, for they differ, and as their paths to God differ, so too does the individual cognition of the answers to their questions... A simple minded person can not be answered in the same manner that the most brilliant of us can... An uneducated person can not be answered in the same manner than an educated one can, at least not if your sole desire is to allow them to perceive and grasp the full truth of the answer given, to ``save them from their ignorance``(quotations as that is not a human`s role nor talent)...
Ave!
@user-gc6wd7dm4w
Discernment is something you need to grow. Mine can be better then yours and vice versa.
Amen to that
@@user-gc6wd7dm4w What? You're complicating something simple. I believe in objectivity and the truth. In your scenario, one person is wrong, or both are wrong. One person is right, or neither of them are right. But the truth still exists. Simple. Moral relativism is the reason why we're in the current mess we're in. Take a stand for something, and step into the arena. Be fearless and bold in pursuit of truth, don't compromise and say "oh, I don't know for sure so I'll just do as I please." That's what your thinking leads to. Even if what we decide isn't perfect, we have a CLEAR standard for conduct and how we should act. Order over chaos. If you stick to an objective standard you can be DECISIVE in your living
@@user-gc6wd7dm4wyou sound like Satan
I’ve been thinking about this question a lot lately, this video was posted at the perfect time. Thank you sir
Friday's with Frank was talking about stoicism this morning now I see this. It's a sign! ✨⭐
We were missing you, and you never disappoint
I agree Dwayne , wisdom is found in different places, it rains on the just and unjust..there you are I shortened it up for ya, 😊..but I know you took a break and missed us so you extended your time so gracefully to us..❤
I appreciate your videos. ❤
I wish my father spoke to me like this growing up. Grateful for the internet and it’s gifts ❤
Once again, thank you. Glad you are feeling better.
This man is an absolute legend!
perfect timing sir, I am slowly trying to open my heart to jesus christ and its been tough keeping faith.
I am also a huge fan and practice stoicism in my daily life. it tough living both lifestyles
“Test everything and hold fast to that which is good” (I Thessalonians 5:21-22).
It's so funny how certain things in life pop up just when you need it or need to know about it - or the youtube algorithm is just that good.
But like a few people said, I clicked on this so fast and hard I nearly broke my phone screen.
Thanks for the video!
Forever grateful for you Dewayne❤️
Bless you, thank you for the upload
I just love and respect you so much. Thanks for sharing your open minded thoughts. God speaks to us in many ways to all cultures. All we have to do is listen.
Thank you for this. Your kindness and respect for those who are afraid or nervous to branch out was lovely. But your guidance on the decernment of reading and educating yourself on other works besides the Bible to gain other wisdoms and points of view is inspiring. Thank you.
thank you for your honesty and willingness to share your views, you are indredibly helpful to me and I appreciate you!
your advices are gold
I like the explanation of the western mind, and how that correlates to our understanding.
Great topic, sir and insightful as well. I'm one of those in the blood and the gospel guys, but Marcus Aurelius provided me great insight and help at a critical juncture in my life.
Hello there good sir, I'm very very thankful that i got in to this channel and I've been watching you for almost like two year's now, sir i really really appreciate all the advice from you, I graduated in Philippine army ocs(officer candidate school) as a 2nd lieutenant , Thank you so much sir.
Thank you so much Dewayne, you have really had a very positive impact on my life in just a few months..
Well done and thank you for an excellent talk, wisdom is far older than written language’s 5,000 year’s record.
One can believe that the Bible is the word of God, without believing that’s all He ever had to say to us. I think God teaches and inspires everyone willing to listen, as much as they are willing to listen.
Revelation 22:18 NASB95
I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book.
Seems to me that the Bible (the Word of God) is complete, with nothing to add.
@@ht5_it’s not that there is more to add to the Bible itself but rather God may have revealed wisdom and truth to individuals thru the ages who have written it down from their perspective. God may reveal things to you that you’ve been praying about and you share that with someone else for their benefit. That doesn’t mean you’re adding to the Bible because of what God has revealed to you or answered your prayer.
Thank youuuu for this amazing video of calming me down with your words of encouragement and kindness ❤️ thank youuuu and thank youuuu
Dwayne, that's one of best descriptions of stoicism I've heard & concur with it.
I've never tried that brand of cigar, might have to pick a few up. Thanks .
Dwayne,
Longtime subscriber. I thoroughly enjoy your videos. Please keep doing what you are doing.
I am no Classicist, but I have a love of knowledge and history.
I do have to say, the foundations of Western Philosophy were being fleshed out in the 5th and 4th century BCE. Approximately a century prior to the earliest known writings of the dead sea scrolls.
Eastern Philosophy, on the third hand, is much older; dating somewhere between 10th-5th century BCE.
What humans believed before that, is on the table.
I do not comment to disavow any belief system, nor to speak on the creation of the universe itself.
I have zero oppositions to people reading Theological texts.
However, to compare and contrast these teachings without context, is doing ourselves a historical and theological disservice.
The writing, organization, interpretation, and distribution of the Dead Sea Scrolls is shrouded with mystery and tragedy.
Where the wisdom comes from, as you mention, is for each of us to decide as we stumble uphill on our paths. The Great Architect of The Universe? Daimons/Daemons? Apotheosis through Theophagy? Human or Non-Human intelligence? Translatory knowledge or Transformative knowledge? I cannot say that I know.
I do agree with you when you allude to the idea that you can juxtapose these teachings, cherry pick, and implement our own wisdom, to become a better version of ourselves.
If we can embody these teachings, without falling prey to dogmatism, then we can potentially reach Eudemonia.
I find that many of your tidbits and lectures dance around with Western Philosophy, Eastern Philosophy, and Biblical teachings. I think that you balance them well.
You have a lot to teach the world.
This did indeed make me think a little bit.
Thank you, Dwayne.
Nice to see you talking about the similarities of the book of proverbs and meditations by Marcus Aurelius. I spoke about this with my barber (which I often talk to about God often) some time ago and he completely agreed!!
Blessings to You and Your Family. Praise Be Everyone 💙❤✨🙏
Good afternoon. It is good to see you again.
Loved the video. Meditations helped me get out of depression in 2020. I was atheist at the time now I'm a believer of Jesus Christ and for me at least i believe both can be good.
Wow, one of the first.
Greetings from Europe, my Amerian Friends ❤
Greetings!
ive had the same standpoint on it but i havent been able to put this explanation into words to my mother, i really appreciate your ability to do that and need to work on my ability to do so for sure😂
I got a great deal out of this video! I will definitely take your advice and get wisdom where I can find it. I also really enjoyed and learned from the video on the chat room Bible talk called it ain’t persecution. It’s certainly ain’t! We need men of God, not wimps of God! Keep it up
Words fitly spoken are like apples of gold in pictures of silver. Thankyou.
I thoroughly enjoyed this video as it helped me sum up my feelings about this subject with Christianity & Stoicism . I totally agree with your perspective. Thanks for your efforts my friend. 👍👍
Dwayne, thank you again
As a relatively new christian, I sincerely appreciate your voice on this matter. God bless you.
Awesome insight… Thanks for sharing!
Bests,
Ramblin’ Jan
I was looking for answers and you gave them to me.
Thank you, Dwayne🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Fantastic! Wonderfully and respectfully said. I find that when I quote stoicism or buddha people let their walls down a bit. 95% of the time the conversation will go deeper and touch upon my Christian faith. We are only to plant seeds. God must draw them. I believe your testimony should be mostly shown. And whether it’s a huge charitable act or just showing respect to your fellow human beings, leave everything and everyone a bit better/uplifted/hopeful etc.
Thank you for making your other channel as well.
Just a few months ago I learned about Stoicism. Now I'm reading "Meditations of Marcus Aurelius". Just as you mentioned, I also just discard Zeus, et. al., and focus on the wisdom contained in the writings. Thousands of years of wisdom in the Bible and Stoic writings literally at our fingertips. I hope more people learn from this collection of ancient wisdom and apply it to todays world. As a Christian and Stoic, I have learned to be a better Man, which in turn has brought me an inner peace and happiness to others..
Dewayne this is my favorite video of yours. We are cut from the same cloth and yes placencia makes excellent cigars and brick house is quickly becoming my go to which used to be anything perdomo…. Take care
I love it, makes total sense! Thank you for this perspective.
Umm Dwayne.... I have to say Sir I am writing your name in on my Presidential election ballot this year. This is a 100% promise.
I know one day you will be gone but you’re going lo leave so much wisdom and work to get done I apréciate people like you who takes time to explain and motivate others that’s what a leader is all about
Gods providence to watch this title after reading Seneca and seeing his belief in "guardian angels" and "God" with a capital G.
Thank you Dwayne, I wish you a good weekend.
Thanks for clarifying this, DeWayne. Interesting reflection.
I think you explained it well and a I totally agree. I also think I should go back and read these books again. It’s been a while. Have a blessed day.
Thanks for covering this topic
I appreciate you sharing your insight.
Practicing stoicism was my gateway to developing my Christian faith.
I agree stoicism is not a perfect match to Christianity, but it helped me to let go, be at peace (another video I thoroughly enjoyed), and accept Jesus Christ into my life.
DeWayne, thanks for these thoughts on Marcus A. & Stoic philophies as they related to or dont relate to Biblical teachings on wisdom in living life. There are some ideas of benefit in Stoicism - particularly when they run along side and are consistent with Scriptural teaching. Take care - I follow your podcasts and see them as thought provoking and beneficial. D. O'Brien in Kansas
Appreciate you….please continue sharing your thoughts, experiences and wisdom. You have a gift in the ability to express yourself so well…who needs a therapist when you’ve got Dewayne? Vote Dewayne 2024 🇺🇸!
Good talk Dwayne, I always say that if it makes you a better human being then don't worry about the source.
I'll be checking out the Jefferson Bible for sure.
Thank you. ✌️
I am an atheist. But I don't reject the values that religion can teach us. In trying times like these I hope other atheists can also put aside any hatred any they have take the path of learning.
God is REAL
@@colincannon6059 Maybe for you. that's fine. For me there is no God.
@flamingburritto eternity is a forever thing, after this life! John 3:16 whosoever shall believe in me shall not perish, but have everlasting life, don't you want another life?
It doesn't matter if he believes in G-d, G, G-d believes in him.@@colincannon6059
@@colincannon6059That's an incredibly greedy way to try and convince someone to become religious. If you're only in it for the benefits you're the worst.
I'm not religious, I understand what you're saying, and appreciate the perspective! Stay cool out there.
🎉🎉🎉 great points on the Asiatic culture of Orient versus western old eastern Orient culture like old English
I picked up a copy of Meditations because you mentioned it before, and I've had it recommended from other people as well. One of the first things that really caught my eye about it was how similar the more direct passages in Meditations are to the sorts of scripture people usually point to as practical, everyday counsel.
Where can you get it? Link?
@@DrGero15 Pretty much anywhere that sells books online. It's never out of print.
This was actually helpful, Dwayne. Thank you...
I saw the notification and knew it was gonna be a good vid
I'm glad you said that, I've use Meditations mostly to understand why people do the things that they do. It had helped me so much in my life, I count it as a must-have just like the bible, truly instrumental in how I view many things today and strive to be.
I know and understand everything you're sayin and it's absolutely true
I've been reading a little Stoicism and wondering about it. Thanks for your thoughts, I'll look into it further!
Great message. Cool to see you smoking Plasencia. They have great cigars. Try the 149 series. Very rich
Bless you sir. I wish I had a grandpa like you. Greetings from Germany
This was helpful. I appreciate it Dwayne.
Thank you for the wisdom 🙏🏻
i implement both in my life! thank you for your wisdom sir!
Duane, read the Geography of Thought. It is a good theory/explanation of what you are talking about in this video about the difference in thinking/communication of Western vs Eastern and how they evolved/formed over the millenia.
I don't identify as a Christian, but I was able to take some lessons from this video & hopefully share some of my own insights. I never read much into Stoicism, but I'm familiar with its general concept. I've taken pieces from Agnosticism, Buddhism, & Spiritualism & have came up with my own sort of faith, & this video has given me more things to explore on my own. I figured I'd "trade" some spiritual information; but basically the main principle of Buddhism (Mainly the eradication of suffering & how one does that via the 8-Fold Path) is that by following the 8 principles of the 8-Fold Path, you remove suffering from your life & the life of others. It has a very similar message to Stoicism & many of the principles of Christianity. It's interesting because Buddhism developed separate from Stoicism & Christianity & came up with some very similar principles.
Good source of understanding is the book ... " The Unfettered Mind ". It seems with your council, I am sharing your path. 👍Thanks!
Makes sense. Thanks for making the parallels. There is wisdom in all things. 👍
Both The Bible and Meditations have profoundly shaped my life. For several years, I've read Meditations at least once a year, and it helped me change for the better. Since I came back to Christ a couple of years ago, I read the Bible a lot more, and I can see the similarities in ideas between Solomon and Aurelius.
The only part I struggle with came after recently learning about Aurelius' persecution of the Christians. Like you said, take what's useful, and discard the rest.
Thanks Dwane, you have a great gift , and that you have used it for our all benefit its a God's work. Agree 100% on stoicism, but could never be able to explain it like you did! 🙏
Dwayne you’re an amazing person brother, keep up the awesome work. I read Seneca Letters on Ethics and I know I have to reread it cause it’s a great book.
I like the relaxing way you talk, but the subject needs to be clarified. For instance, according to many missionaries, the Tao Te Ching is comparable to the New Testament. So, it is less about East and West than interpretation and understanding. As the Bible says, I agree that we can agree as much as possible with other thoughts and literature as long as it does not take us off the path to God. As far as the Jefferson Bible, many of those parables and stories were used to enhance learning and understanding, and God warns about adding to them or taking them away. Proverbs needs to be clarified since it is more of a wisdom book and not a poem book like Song of Solomon; there are specific things to do and not do, and they are a guide to live by. Anyway--Love you always, my friend.
Hope you’re feeling better.
It's wild. I was talking to a friend of mine about this exact subject the other day too.
As the saying goes, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, folks!
Recently someone said to me the men that wrote the Bible didn’t have a Bible to read something I never thought of makes a lot of sense I discovered stoicism before the dear Lord touched me and once again you’re spot on when it comes to wisdom just breaking it down piece by piece and get into the truth the way the good Lord intended 🤝
Once again I can’t agree more there’s another gentleman I follow closely he is a Shaolin monk God intended wisdom for all man and it’s been around long before there was a Bible the dear Lord never intended division
To walk in another man shoes I stumble trying to make a point when it comes to understanding different cultures different point of views but until you’ve walked in another man shoes it’s difficult to understand the way they learn now I’m the one stumbling lol but the common ground the wisdom no matter where it comes from when it comes to a man talking it all starts with God but when you can better understand someone from a different land it draws you closer and I’m sure that’s God’s will can’t we just all get along
Love the video. We've been running in the 100's her in Idaho, i think today was 95 😅
Thanks for another video brother
I appreciate this. I have trouble really getting the philosophers/stoic perspective. Maybe they are a lot different from each other I don’t know. I have to read a little and think a lot!
Outstanding!
It’s so great when your videos click right at the point of my study in the Bible.