alomomola is very "fun" though. You click wish, then you switch out. This heals 1. the replacement by like 250 because of alomomolas HP stat and 2. alomomola by 1/3 because of Regenerator. Pretty much tied to stall though because wish passing and fishing for scald burns / spreading status is about everything that thing does.
Tho if you are watching BKC you're kinda supposed to be versed enough in competitive pokemon to know those terms. Also as a side-note those abreviations are all really cute.
@Pissed Off White Guy You probably picked the worst example since it turns out HP also happens to mean "Health Points", which is also a common abreviation in other games. I know it must be hard to believe that not everyone is familiar with the abreviations in English too. For example I grew up with PO (poder oculto) as hidden power and PS (puntos de salud) meaning health points. Obviously I doubt anyone that didn´t already know these or make it out of context would be watching the video but I found it funny that at the start BKC explicitly mentions wanting to be "welcoming to newer players"
I think that Quagsire is my favorite "bulky" water, just because he looks so happy to be here. He doesn't know how he got there, but man is he having a blast just blankly staring at the power mon he's facing.
I do like the multiple nichés qaug has had over the years, always a unique mon with viability in multiple tiers for filling a role unlike anything else.
Tbh i lean vaporeon just because of how often it pulled through from gen 1-5 when I could get it. Quag is definitely based af I just wish they gave him some stat boosts
Solid stuff, and great overall point. I think Gen 8 further validates your overall claim that nowadays people want their "bulky" waters to be more offensive, or at least less passive. Toxapex is a great mon in Gen 8, but when it rises up in usage, new meta threats develop to take advantage of it due to its relative inability to threaten stuff back. And Pex shifted to run moves like Toxic Spikes and Knock Off in order to be more than just a bulky defensive water and actually help make progress against the opposing team in a more direct manner. The next most viable Water types in SM OU pre-DLC2 were Mantine and Primarina, and the latter ran SubCM or Specs sets which is yet another example of how player expectations of bulky waters have changed.
MAN YOUR VIDEOS LACK THE VISUAL AESTHETICS THAT I HAVE COME TO CRAVE ON CZcams - I MIGHT HAVE TO USE THIS AS A PODCAST RATHER THAN WATCH IT LIKE A VIDEO - THE HOOPS I HAVE TO JUMP THROUGH
I think DPP Swampert is one of the most interesting story of the Bulky Water guys, going from being a standard Bulky Water with the standard MixPert build and then as time goes on its Choice Band set ended up being its more popular set up. I remember back in DPP somewhere along the lines of post Mence ban, there was a time when you can cheese a couple of win on the ladder is to have a 4 Attack metagross(i think this was used because Lead Machamp was dumb) vs Mixpert lead match up by booming turn 1 which give you momentum or sometimes no stealth rock for the rest of the game Also while its not actually a Water type, its a bit amusing how similar Mixpert and Tankchomp plays - it basically have the exact same set(Roar/Rocks/EQ vs Tail/Rocks/EQ) and they have similar bulk
O think your videos are my favorite things to turn on while just shiny hunting or breeding. Like you said, Podcast lol. But they're also just so informative, even for a veteran player like me. It's great as a refresher and a way to open my mind.
@@dtexdarkus reminds me of Fire Emblem Gaiden because in that game, due to how "perfectly accurate" the random number generator is, this is essentially what it *actually* comes down too 😆
kinda funny how things play out sometimes, isn't it. The problem is that protect, as good as it is, loses a lot of its power, when it is forced because then it essentially means a semi-free switch for the opponent. Whereas when swampert switches into mence rock slide and takes whatever, it CAN use protect but it doesn't HAVE to. Also, swampert heals in sand while vaporeon doesn't. Its those little things that make pokemon so interesting imo.
Really interesting video. I do enjoy learning about older meta games. I didn’t really get into competitive Pokémon battling on showdown until gen 7 so it’s fun to learn about the older metas! Very informative!
Great video! Would love a basic teambuilding guide that showcased the different types of strategies you can center your team around, and also established the different roles that pokemon can have inside a team.
water type is just so good man in OU, only other water types can really counter water mons cuz electric ones don't like getting hit by a non-resisted stab attack (except maybe bulky rotom, and yellow chicken) and both dragon and grass types hate getting burn by scald or getting hit by ice beam.
So many of these pokemon may have either never dropped from OU or may have rose to OU if they got reliable recovery. Swampert, Suicune, Vaporeon (minus Wish), Cloyster, Tentacruel, Lanturn, Lapras, and so many more water type pokemon! It's insane how extremely vital reliable recovery is. I guarantee that Heatran would be top 3 in every generation if it had reliable recovery. Same with Ferrothorn (not counting Leech Seed) Edit: Not mentioning Wish on Vaporeon was a mistake I corrected. However, I still stand by what I said about Vaporeon. Essentially forcing it to waste a slot on Protect can be helpful for extra Leftovers recovery, but also hinders it's walling capability by getting rid of a move that could potentially be extremely helpful
Bulky waters have existed in every gen and have always had an impact in OU, small or mostly gigantic, im glad someone made this video Gen 1 Had Lapras and Starmie Gen 2 Had Suicune and Cloyster And This Video Basically Covers The Rest
Sounds like a big difference between 3 and 4 is that in Gen 4 players increasingly demanded Bulky Waters to have something that advanced the game, some support that advance the strategy of the game beyond being a defensive pivot. Classically pre-Gen 5, in Gen 4 Vaporeon was OU and Milotic was UU because Milotic was seen as "only recovering itself" and wasn't seen as bringing the needed utility compared to Vaporeon's Wish. Swampert had Stealth Rock/Roar, Tentacruel and Starmie had Rapid Spin, and Suicune could advance the game by potentially ending it single handedly. Milotic was seen as a good sponge that didn't bring support that was seen as needed compared to its competition. Probably because of how much more comparatively powerful the attackers were, it wasn't enough to just sponge-- a support move ensures you get something done even if you get taken out by the ridiculously powerful attacks of the meta. Of course Milotic got more popular post gen 5 release, but I imagine the weaknesses earlier DPP players saw in it still holds to a degree.
I am a Gen 4 player, and I would also like to see a video discussing the importance of entry hazards and other chip damage in Gen 4. I find the most successful games are always when I can set my rocks and a layer or two of spikes and shuffle the opponents Pokémon around. And if I can’t I feel like it’s hard to rely on sheer offense
Bulky mono water is a great team to run in let’s go. They can get past their main checks and if you run a few tweaks you can get in front of your main counter in venusaur.
I remember having a bulky vaporeon with hydration in my gen 5 rain team and it was surprisingly effective. While normally Vaporeon traditionally ran physical bulk, I decided to tap into it's greater special defense and run a fully specially defensive set with acid armor of all moves and see how many things I could wall. It had scald, rest, acid armor and roar. I had this vaporeon in BW after Thunderus was banned so there really wasn't a lot in OU that could handle it if you couldn't change the weather or you didn't have a taunt user left. It caused a lot of rage quits after a couple acid armors. Definitely one of my more unique sets.
Oh my b within 8 seconds 39:18 Please clarify what you meant by water/ground is good typing but quagsire's typing isn't very good, because that kinda confused me.
@@SchmickSchmackins My guess is that he slipped when he said the typing isnt very good and wanted to correct himself by then saying his bulk isnt very good a second later; at least thats the only the i could think of
good call on sm gastrodon. vincune isn't really a bulky water, since you definitely don't want to switch it into attacks, but it's not quite an immediate offensive water, either.
Swampert can have access too stealth rock gen 4 I like swampert dragon dance gyarados is a dangerous threat just don’t let gyarados dragon dance kill gyardos off right before he dragon dance
those pokes were ou by ladder usage at the end of dpp's time as a current generation, thus locking them to ou. however, it's been 10 years since then, and they have pretty much never been used. so, they're technically ou, but they're not true ou pokemon.
bulky starmie has been a thing in many generations. That thing can do more than just go life orb 4 attacks. Speed + Rapid Spin + Recover + passable bulk when invested gives it an interesting niche in a more supportive/defensive role.
certainly (special bulk is comparable to swamperts. Physical bulk is lower but still decent for lower tier standards when invested), but it doesn't exactly play like a "normal" water type due to its ground weakness. It is more of an "anti bulky water type". Preety cool poke, though :3
well, Jellicent was good in the generations where Keldeo was around because it sits on that all day while being a pretty cool defensive pokemon in general. It has always been a bit more on the niche side though, especially as the generations went on, resulting in low usage in the higher tiers in later generations (although it has often been viable in tiers higher than its "official" tier, iirc being viable in gen 6 OU as well). Also scald / will'o'wisp + STAB hex is just way too cool of a combo.
a pokemon can fit more than a single role. Gyarados is often used for its defensive utility, especially in the earlier generations. 95 HP / 79 Def / 100 SpD is very solid especially with Intimidate. While over the generations, gyarados has shifted into a more aggressive role, its defensive utility remains one of the reasons why it is as good as it is.
This comment is an in-depth overview of the other potential bulky waters of ADV that were unmentioned or glossed over. Due to length, it has to be broken up into replies to this one. The essence is that some of these options merit experimentation due to their interesting advantages in the metagame, although most can be safely disregarded as being too disadvantaged to ever be worthy. Ultimately however, there's no admittable potential for any but *maybe* one or two (which? I know not) ever becoming OU mainstays, for the reasons which are to be explained. What was said about Gen III Cloyster is true of the other Water/Ice types (Lapras and Walrein; Dewgong is essentially a worse Walrein for singles play as well. Cloyster is only ranked OU because it has Spikes. Explosion is a benefit, and Rapid Spin in theory, but the former doesn't justify its general lack of utility outside of Spikes and the latter is not good on Cloyster against Skarmory (who can poison it) and Gengar (who can one shot it). Lapras and Walrein are super effected by Rock Slide, neutral to Meteor Mash (which is devestating), and weak as well to fighting moves whether Focus Punch or Brick Break. They both do uniquely check/counter particularly Suicune, but outside of that only niche threats and almost nothing you will commonly see.
Quagsire and Mantine would seem to be Suicune checks because of Water Absorb, but in the past few years Rest-Talk, or more generally mono-Surf, Suicune has ceased to be the default and most run Ice Beam. If it's lead, it could be using Hidden Power Grass anyway. As for Mantine, it doesn't *lose* against Suicune when using Haze (and Toxic), but more crucially, it doesn't *win* either. It can't do anything but stop its momentum. Outside of Suicune: Quagsire is virtually a worse Swampert due to lack of Recover and lower stats across the board, with the only gift being Damp for Metagross; Mantine is essentially the biggest Swampert counter in the game which deals with almost any set it could possibly run, but checks almost nothing else due to the crucial Rock weakness, low special attack, low defense, and of course no recovery. There's Qwilfish, which doesn't have Intimidate, that has less bulk than Cloyster even though it has Spikes, which has the same issue as Cloyster in being weak to a critical typing, in Ground (Earthquake), and middling to bad stats, so it checks nothing. The other Water/Poison Tentacruel, which is an UU staple, sounds pretty good on paper with its high speed, high SpD, access to Rapid Spin, and even Swords Dance + Sludge Bomb perhaps, but its other stats just aren't enough, its movepool isn't enough for the threats it has to face in OU, its typing combination holds it back by making it weak to things you'd want it to check (Celebi, Gengar, etc.); which isn't to say it's bad, but it needs too much support to use whereas ideally a bulky water *is* its own support, which contributes to the team without asking too much in return. Perhaps it's fair to say Tentacruel is underexplored, but it's easy to see that there is a cap on its utility, especially since it does not and never will check the physically offensive threats as would be expected of a bulky water.
Another underexplored one would be Poliwrath, whose Fighting type, while making it weak to Flying, does make it resistant to Rock. It has no recovery other than Rest, which means it isn't a reliable switch-in over the course of the match when used against the offensive threats, but unlike most bulky waters, it is a physical attacker, and one of the few which really threaten Blissey because of its fighting typing. It has Bulk Up to make it take less damage and hit harder, it has Earthquake to check both Tyranitar and Metagross in one slot (as well as Damp to stop Explosion), and Water Absorb in order to check or downright counter Suicune. With access to Hypnosis, it can run Substitute Focus Punch, although this then trends more into an offensive threat than defensive wall proper. Lastly, it gets Counter and Haze too, which would generally be less useful against the physical threats than attacking them. Despite this, Poliwrath's stats are too mediocre, and lacking a recovery other than Rest in combination with that makes it not generally useful enough to dedicate a teamslot to. The issue with almost all of these alternative is that they are not enough on their own, and really make you want a second Water which in this metagame actually can hardly be afforded. Lanturn, which has had meme hype behind it in the past, has the death sentence of being weak to Earthquake, along with having bad stats other than its HP; yes, it has unique roles others don't, but it needs a buddy. Politoed, which has virtually nothing going for it---meaning, despite having access to just about the same tools as Poliwrath, also doesn't have anything it doesn't have other than Perish Song (which unique trait it shares with Lapras [and Dewgong and Azumarill]), which does nothing against offensive threats and is just barely better than useless without a means of trapping (almost nothing gets Whirlpool, and these Perish Song'ers aren't one of the lucky ones).
You might be tempted to delve into NU, but the drawbacks are simple. Despite having an enormous HP, Wailords low defensive stats mean it is frailer than you might imagine (Hariyama has the same issue, which otherwise *could* have been a much appreciated "bulky fighting type" even if it just only had better Def or better SpD---it just doesn't take strong neutral hits well enough considering the lack of a recovery---and that's the common theme here in all of this, getting screwed by having no reliable recovery; even Life Dew would have helped some of these be viable). There's Pelipper, which has a high defense, so you might think it'd be a decent check to a typical Metagross or even Salamence, but it's the flip coin of Wailord where its low HP makes it frailer than it needs to be. It's not strong enough either to get much out of stray hits, along with a movepool that doesn't suit what it's capable of doing very well. Its attack is too low to check Heracross either. And finally Whiscash, which really does just about boil down to being worse Swampert with nothing practically usable to set it apart. Gorebyss has Baton Pass alongside sharp defense boosts on both sides, and even Agility which could be significant, but low speed and low hp and no other practical moves; defensively, it is not good enough.
Another pure Water, Blastoise, which is so undersung even I hadn't remembered it while writing this, is another bulky water which, despite the fact it doesn't have a recovery, could still actually be generally usable given the right team composition. It is a water Rapid Spinner which isn't weak to just about anything Tyranitar can do, unlike Starmie, while also crucially being bulkier than Starmie. In fact, its movepool is potentially amazing, as it gets too Haze, Refresh, Focus Punch and Dynamic Punch and Earthquake, Roar, Yawn, Counter *AND* Mirror Coat, maybe even Mud Sport---it's a mon that could potentially be very interesting but has seen little experimentation. I have personally used it on a Snorlax team a couple years ago to compress physical offense check, spinner, and weather reseter into one role, and wasn't terribly disappointed by it. Just to mention it, Feraligatr actually has slightly more (physically relevant) bulk than it, but its movepool is devoid of the same defensive utility. Azumarill is theoretically okayish bulk; gets Thick Fat too although that's not terribly relevant. But it effectively has no moves if you go physical and its special attack is completely none threatening. This pretty much disqualifies it. Golduck has Cloud Nine which would be amazing to have in OU because of Sand Stream (and the odd Rain and rare Sun), but essentially no bulk, no unique resistances, and a very small selection of potentially interesting tools that it could never cobble together into something truly viable because of its middling stats and largely lacking movepool.
The two relevant Water/Rock types may have different viability on paper, because of Omastar's more-than-merely-usable SpA and access to Spikes, but they are both hampered by the weaknesses the Rock typing brings whilst it provides largely no relevant benefit for the OU metagame; they are not generally useful enough in the bulky water role to justify bringing. Corsola is another mon you could forget, and just about should forget, for despite not fearing status *and* having recover, is too limited by bad, inadequate stats and an unhelpful typing for the OU tier. Its movepool is very tempting (you should see it), but on paper it just will never work. Doesn't really hurt to try, though. Then there's Slowking and Slowbro. No Slack Off; and of course no Regenerator. Slowking is essentially weak to everything, while not taking the hits well enough for it to get any mileage with its decent movepool. Slowbro has the better stat distribution for the tier but it's even more vulnerable to the special attacks that would plague Slowking while still not being strong enough to deal with them decisively. Its low speed means it's easy to wear down quickly in a match while it may never get the chance to even use Rest. It's weak to Tyranitar's potential Hidden Power Bug or Crunch while not resisting Rock Slide either---even with max defense, a flinch can be devastating, as it already would be for the similarly bulky (but better) Suicune in the same position. It's not a reliable enough mon and doesn't gain enough momentum on its own without having been positioned to do so over the course of a match---and bulky waters often don't have that luxury, being often the first or second line of defense, sometimes the only one, against potential onslaughts. And they have too many weaknesses and not enough bulk on both sides to run Calm Mind Rest like Suicune.
note: I forgot to mention oras alomomola and rest suicune. they're less popular than slowbro and gastrodon, though, so point stands
alomomola is very "fun" though. You click wish, then you switch out. This heals 1. the replacement by like 250 because of alomomolas HP stat and 2. alomomola by 1/3 because of Regenerator. Pretty much tied to stall though because wish passing and fishing for scald burns / spreading status is about everything that thing does.
BKC: "I'll say aerodactyl because abreviations aren't welcoming to newer players"
Also BKC: "DD tar, HP grass, scarf tran..."
If anyone is wondering: DD is Dragon Dance, ttar is Tyranitar, HP is Hidden Power, scarf is Choice Scarf, tran is Heatran.
@@gnomebliterator4129 thank you so much
“The latis, ferro, zard Y and X, spdef, voltbeam, the tapus, skarmbliss, Pex, Kart,....”
Tho if you are watching BKC you're kinda supposed to be versed enough in competitive pokemon to know those terms.
Also as a side-note those abreviations are all really cute.
@Pissed Off White Guy You probably picked the worst example since it turns out HP also happens to mean "Health Points", which is also a common abreviation in other games. I know it must be hard to believe that not everyone is familiar with the abreviations in English too. For example I grew up with PO (poder oculto) as hidden power and PS (puntos de salud) meaning health points. Obviously I doubt anyone that didn´t already know these or make it out of context would be watching the video but I found it funny that at the start BKC explicitly mentions wanting to be "welcoming to newer players"
BKC graduated from the violet city trainer school with a phd in talking for hours about a japanese cockfighting simulator
i love your videos so much honestly i feel like i am learning something useful even if i am Really Not
IN A NUSHELL LMAO I love this description. Competitive Pokemon History is my WEED and I love it
BKC is Earl.
I think that Quagsire is my favorite "bulky" water, just because he looks so happy to be here. He doesn't know how he got there, but man is he having a blast just blankly staring at the power mon he's facing.
It is my favorite as well.
Carried me through a really tough nuzlock run.
quagsire is my favorite mon bc of this hes just so goofy
I think he's Unaware of the opponent lol
I do like the multiple nichés qaug has had over the years, always a unique mon with viability in multiple tiers for filling a role unlike anything else.
Tbh i lean vaporeon just because of how often it pulled through from gen 1-5 when I could get it. Quag is definitely based af I just wish they gave him some stat boosts
"most bulky waters require a lot of support"
Got it, use 6 bulky waters for maximum support
Y E S
Stay hydrated team
Ah yes nobody gives about grass types like ferrothorn and kartana
Rillabum: Hey
Hp fire mega swampert in rain. That always gets the job done
Ah, the wonders of aquatic beef.
Solid stuff, and great overall point. I think Gen 8 further validates your overall claim that nowadays people want their "bulky" waters to be more offensive, or at least less passive. Toxapex is a great mon in Gen 8, but when it rises up in usage, new meta threats develop to take advantage of it due to its relative inability to threaten stuff back. And Pex shifted to run moves like Toxic Spikes and Knock Off in order to be more than just a bulky defensive water and actually help make progress against the opposing team in a more direct manner. The next most viable Water types in SM OU pre-DLC2 were Mantine and Primarina, and the latter ran SubCM or Specs sets which is yet another example of how player expectations of bulky waters have changed.
also cuz it kinda sucks when u cant hit the dd pult who will 6-0 ur team after 2 dd's
Haven't played much gen 8, but i thought everybody and their grandma is running defensive teleport slowbro?
@@maxmustermann5590 slowbro is ok but not great seeing knock and ghost where everywhere and rn dlc 2 we got shit like genesect
Also the presence of Urshifu which OHKOs even Max Defense Slowbro with Banded Wicked Strike
Same with tapu fini. Most sets are surf/hydro, draining kiss, calm mind and taunt these days
Adv vaporeon is one of my fav mons ever. So many options it feels like it has a 12 moveslot syndrom
scald
wish
protect
toxic
heal bell
ice beam
flip turn
baton pass
acid armor
icy wind
roar
haze
Ruben Costa half of those moves are post adv
@@nomongosinthaworld scald, flip turn and what else?
@Just Some Guy with a Beard I’m sorry what 😂😂😂
surf
hydro pump
ice beam
hidden power grass
hidden power electric
wish
protect
baton pass
acid armor
heal bell
roar
haze
MAN YOUR VIDEOS LACK THE VISUAL AESTHETICS THAT I HAVE COME TO CRAVE ON CZcams - I MIGHT HAVE TO USE THIS AS A PODCAST RATHER THAN WATCH IT LIKE A VIDEO - THE HOOPS I HAVE TO JUMP THROUGH
I think DPP Swampert is one of the most interesting story of the Bulky Water guys, going from being a standard Bulky Water with the standard MixPert build and then as time goes on its Choice Band set ended up being its more popular set up. I remember back in DPP somewhere along the lines of post Mence ban, there was a time when you can cheese a couple of win on the ladder is to have a 4 Attack metagross(i think this was used because Lead Machamp was dumb) vs Mixpert lead match up by booming turn 1 which give you momentum or sometimes no stealth rock for the rest of the game
Also while its not actually a Water type, its a bit amusing how similar Mixpert and Tankchomp plays - it basically have the exact same set(Roar/Rocks/EQ vs Tail/Rocks/EQ) and they have similar bulk
3:20 Don't think that went unnoticed
I watched this entire video over the course of a single match against Unaware RestTalk Curse Dondozo
O think your videos are my favorite things to turn on while just shiny hunting or breeding. Like you said, Podcast lol. But they're also just so informative, even for a veteran player like me. It's great as a refresher and a way to open my mind.
"Use surf on Ash Greninja otherwise you're crazy"
Made my day lol
“If it’s not 100% accurate, it’s 50% accurate.”
- Michael from MandJTV
And a madman I am.
That is too risky aeriel ace is safer
@@dtexdarkus which video did he say that?
@@dtexdarkus reminds me of Fire Emblem Gaiden because in that game, due to how "perfectly accurate" the random number generator is, this is essentially what it *actually* comes down too 😆
Pseudo podcast with a mild visual component... Huh that is strangely accurate
BKC: The importance of protect
Also BKC: Vaporeon is worse because it's forced to run protect
kinda funny how things play out sometimes, isn't it.
The problem is that protect, as good as it is, loses a lot of its power, when it is forced because then it essentially means a semi-free switch for the opponent. Whereas when swampert switches into mence rock slide and takes whatever, it CAN use protect but it doesn't HAVE to. Also, swampert heals in sand while vaporeon doesn't.
Its those little things that make pokemon so interesting imo.
Really interesting video. I do enjoy learning about older meta games. I didn’t really get into competitive Pokémon battling on showdown until gen 7 so it’s fun to learn about the older metas! Very informative!
I literally "watch" these videos with my eyes closed to relax before sleeping
Great video!
Would love a basic teambuilding guide that showcased the different types of strategies you can center your team around, and also established the different roles that pokemon can have inside a team.
"we can move onto gen 5" [screaming in the background as 30% burn chance intensifies]
How GOOD were bulky waters ACTUALLY?
Unfortunately....
Power creep
@@thelambsauce490 In its debut generation did archetype did not exist.
"RIP VGC lol"
I played your rain team yesterday in ladder and got harassed everygame, the win rate improve tho
water type is just so good man
in OU, only other water types can really counter water mons cuz electric ones don't like getting hit by a non-resisted stab attack (except maybe bulky rotom, and yellow chicken) and both dragon and grass types hate getting burn by scald or getting hit by ice beam.
Cackles in Ferrothorn
Chortles in Abomasnow
Snorts in Dialga
Sensibly chuckles in Lantur-- oh.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 Keldeo laughin at them
gently yeets a blissey at the water type
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 dialga isnt ou lmao
So many of these pokemon may have either never dropped from OU or may have rose to OU if they got reliable recovery. Swampert, Suicune, Vaporeon (minus Wish), Cloyster, Tentacruel, Lanturn, Lapras, and so many more water type pokemon! It's insane how extremely vital reliable recovery is. I guarantee that Heatran would be top 3 in every generation if it had reliable recovery. Same with Ferrothorn (not counting Leech Seed)
Edit: Not mentioning Wish on Vaporeon was a mistake I corrected. However, I still stand by what I said about Vaporeon. Essentially forcing it to waste a slot on Protect can be helpful for extra Leftovers recovery, but also hinders it's walling capability by getting rid of a move that could potentially be extremely helpful
Bulky waters have existed in every gen and have always had an impact in OU, small or mostly gigantic, im glad someone made this video
Gen 1 Had Lapras and Starmie
Gen 2 Had Suicune and Cloyster
And This Video Basically Covers The Rest
gen 1 had starmie
@@mattzr1550 Yes it does, as I pointed out in my original comment.
Sounds like a big difference between 3 and 4 is that in Gen 4 players increasingly demanded Bulky Waters to have something that advanced the game, some support that advance the strategy of the game beyond being a defensive pivot. Classically pre-Gen 5, in Gen 4 Vaporeon was OU and Milotic was UU because Milotic was seen as "only recovering itself" and wasn't seen as bringing the needed utility compared to Vaporeon's Wish. Swampert had Stealth Rock/Roar, Tentacruel and Starmie had Rapid Spin, and Suicune could advance the game by potentially ending it single handedly. Milotic was seen as a good sponge that didn't bring support that was seen as needed compared to its competition. Probably because of how much more comparatively powerful the attackers were, it wasn't enough to just sponge-- a support move ensures you get something done even if you get taken out by the ridiculously powerful attacks of the meta. Of course Milotic got more popular post gen 5 release, but I imagine the weaknesses earlier DPP players saw in it still holds to a degree.
Hydro homies since day 1
This is cool, I like watching videos like this that just go over one main type.
I am a Gen 4 player, and I would also like to see a video discussing the importance of entry hazards and other chip damage in Gen 4. I find the most successful games are always when I can set my rocks and a layer or two of spikes and shuffle the opponents Pokémon around. And if I can’t I feel like it’s hard to rely on sheer offense
If u uae stealth rocks u a scrub
Bulky mono water is a great team to run in let’s go. They can get past their main checks and if you run a few tweaks you can get in front of your main counter in venusaur.
I’ll need more waters after this
You are blessing us with all this content. I love it.
I remember having a bulky vaporeon with hydration in my gen 5 rain team and it was surprisingly effective. While normally Vaporeon traditionally ran physical bulk, I decided to tap into it's greater special defense and run a fully specially defensive set with acid armor of all moves and see how many things I could wall. It had scald, rest, acid armor and roar. I had this vaporeon in BW after Thunderus was banned so there really wasn't a lot in OU that could handle it if you couldn't change the weather or you didn't have a taunt user left. It caused a lot of rage quits after a couple acid armors. Definitely one of my more unique sets.
Just by reading this, I can safely say that you are evil and I hate you
that sounds evil. I love it.
Goodnight fellas. This is just as good as summoning salt videos when you are driving or are about to sleep. 💤💤💤 great video
Milotic Murders Mixed :>
You forgot the best bulky water in ADV
Whiscash
Lanturn better
DD Whiscash in NU back when it actually had a following was goated.
L A N T U R N G A N G
Suicune taught me that a good defense is the best offense.
Great video as usual, I loved the gen 3 and the gen 4 part
Great to see this video, glad you made it. Perfect to listen to while shiny hunting
Also, commenting for algorithm
Starting watching bkc since yesterday keep up the good work.
nice. vid Saved to watch it all sooner
Bro your videos are amazing. I don't even play ADV ou but I keep watching ur videos
Agent seismitoad
I know you, you are me but cured from depression!
39:00 within 20 seconds you called water/ground typing good and bad
Oh my b within 8 seconds 39:18
Please clarify what you meant by water/ground is good typing but quagsire's typing isn't very good, because that kinda confused me.
@@SchmickSchmackins My guess is that he slipped when he said the typing isnt very good and wanted to correct himself by then saying his bulk isnt very good a second later; at least thats the only the i could think of
@@JpForrReal Yep, the typing is great, but Quagsire itself is not great.
what jpforreal and beef boi have said is correct, thanks guys
congrats on 10k BKC!!! excellent video
OMG another amazing video, congratulations bro ^^
Blessed with 3h of content today thank you for your service 😳7
36:00
Don't mind me, just putting timestamps for myself
My favorite fat water is gen 7 uu araquanid because it could trap fat waters and toxic them and they couldnt do anything about it
What about Vincune in gen 6?
Also in gen 7 Gastrodon got wildly popular towards the end of the gen.
good call on sm gastrodon. vincune isn't really a bulky water, since you definitely don't want to switch it into attacks, but it's not quite an immediate offensive water, either.
Make BKC a superstar!!!!!
What the hell was that quagsire doing in my analysis?
quagsire doesn't care
When CTC was like “just turn it to Suicune”
Anyone else think these videos are hella relaxing?
Video idea: dpp celetran and why it dropped in popularity
1:40 you don't know me!
Swampert can have access too stealth rock gen 4 I like swampert dragon dance gyarados is a dangerous threat just don’t let gyarados dragon dance kill gyardos off right before he dragon dance
thx for this great video!
Lapras now good in vgc
I use that resttalk gyara set in dpp but I use avalanche instead of roar and it actually worked pretty well
My boy jellicent 💪🏾💪🏾fav water type ever tho is starmie
I’d run Ice Beam on marvel scale: Refresh on competitive
You forgot to mention gastrodon on dpp section. :C
This wil be a long one.
didnt notice til now but the audacity to say swamperts typing is really good and then slander quagsire's typing within 20 seconds is crazy
38:59
Hi dumb question, what's the meaning of ou by technically in dpp?
those pokes were ou by ladder usage at the end of dpp's time as a current generation, thus locking them to ou. however, it's been 10 years since then, and they have pretty much never been used. so, they're technically ou, but they're not true ou pokemon.
@@BKCplaysPokemon thxz keep the good work!
"A history of bulky waters" Sees starmie in thumnail. :/ ????
bulky starmie has been a thing in many generations. That thing can do more than just go life orb 4 attacks. Speed + Rapid Spin + Recover + passable bulk when invested gives it an interesting niche in a more supportive/defensive role.
this video made me thirsty
Misdreavus in OU... Holy shit
goes to show how dangerous snorlax is in that tier when "being a ghost type that is not weak to earthquake" is pretty much enough to make you OU, lol
Hell yes.
My fav pkmn ever. Bulky water. 😚
and now toxapex is used offensively lol. tho gen 9 still have dondozo
You should actually do these vids with high gain and whispering just actually cross over
Is lanturn considered a bulky mon?
certainly (special bulk is comparable to swamperts. Physical bulk is lower but still decent for lower tier standards when invested), but it doesn't exactly play like a "normal" water type due to its ground weakness. It is more of an "anti bulky water type". Preety cool poke, though :3
obligatory algorithm-boosting comment
1:31:00 why does it sound like "spikes" was autotuned?
I really like Jelicent. I know he isn't very good but I have done good stuff with him.
well, Jellicent was good in the generations where Keldeo was around because it sits on that all day while being a pretty cool defensive pokemon in general. It has always been a bit more on the niche side though, especially as the generations went on, resulting in low usage in the higher tiers in later generations (although it has often been viable in tiers higher than its "official" tier, iirc being viable in gen 6 OU as well).
Also scald / will'o'wisp + STAB hex is just way too cool of a combo.
ludwig7
Lanturn best bolky water
I Jun jellicent on my bw ou team
Stop uploading videos everyday , youtube is gonna explode
like a CB Metagross on Skarmory?
vaporeon is really good bulky water not my favorite evolution my favorite is espeon
Comments are good for the youtube algorithm
Not bulky waters its called thicc waters
they attacc
they protecc
but most importantly
they bulky
Algorithm
Gyrados is not a bulky water it’s a sweeper
a pokemon can fit more than a single role. Gyarados is often used for its defensive utility, especially in the earlier generations. 95 HP / 79 Def / 100 SpD is very solid especially with Intimidate. While over the generations, gyarados has shifted into a more aggressive role, its defensive utility remains one of the reasons why it is as good as it is.
@@IschmarVI it is a fairly bulky mon but I have never seen any mf try to tank hits with gyra
what the HELL?!?!?
This comment is an in-depth overview of the other potential bulky waters of ADV that were unmentioned or glossed over. Due to length, it has to be broken up into replies to this one.
The essence is that some of these options merit experimentation due to their interesting advantages in the metagame, although most can be safely disregarded as being too disadvantaged to ever be worthy. Ultimately however, there's no admittable potential for any but *maybe* one or two (which? I know not) ever becoming OU mainstays, for the reasons which are to be explained.
What was said about Gen III Cloyster is true of the other Water/Ice types (Lapras and Walrein; Dewgong is essentially a worse Walrein for singles play as well. Cloyster is only ranked OU because it has Spikes. Explosion is a benefit, and Rapid Spin in theory, but the former doesn't justify its general lack of utility outside of Spikes and the latter is not good on Cloyster against Skarmory (who can poison it) and Gengar (who can one shot it).
Lapras and Walrein are super effected by Rock Slide, neutral to Meteor Mash (which is devestating), and weak as well to fighting moves whether Focus Punch or Brick Break. They both do uniquely check/counter particularly Suicune, but outside of that only niche threats and almost nothing you will commonly see.
Quagsire and Mantine would seem to be Suicune checks because of Water Absorb, but in the past few years Rest-Talk, or more generally mono-Surf, Suicune has ceased to be the default and most run Ice Beam. If it's lead, it could be using Hidden Power Grass anyway. As for Mantine, it doesn't *lose* against Suicune when using Haze (and Toxic), but more crucially, it doesn't *win* either. It can't do anything but stop its momentum. Outside of Suicune: Quagsire is virtually a worse Swampert due to lack of Recover and lower stats across the board, with the only gift being Damp for Metagross; Mantine is essentially the biggest Swampert counter in the game which deals with almost any set it could possibly run, but checks almost nothing else due to the crucial Rock weakness, low special attack, low defense, and of course no recovery.
There's Qwilfish, which doesn't have Intimidate, that has less bulk than Cloyster even though it has Spikes, which has the same issue as Cloyster in being weak to a critical typing, in Ground (Earthquake), and middling to bad stats, so it checks nothing. The other Water/Poison Tentacruel, which is an UU staple, sounds pretty good on paper with its high speed, high SpD, access to Rapid Spin, and even Swords Dance + Sludge Bomb perhaps, but its other stats just aren't enough, its movepool isn't enough for the threats it has to face in OU, its typing combination holds it back by making it weak to things you'd want it to check (Celebi, Gengar, etc.); which isn't to say it's bad, but it needs too much support to use whereas ideally a bulky water *is* its own support, which contributes to the team without asking too much in return. Perhaps it's fair to say Tentacruel is underexplored, but it's easy to see that there is a cap on its utility, especially since it does not and never will check the physically offensive threats as would be expected of a bulky water.
Another underexplored one would be Poliwrath, whose Fighting type, while making it weak to Flying, does make it resistant to Rock. It has no recovery other than Rest, which means it isn't a reliable switch-in over the course of the match when used against the offensive threats, but unlike most bulky waters, it is a physical attacker, and one of the few which really threaten Blissey because of its fighting typing. It has Bulk Up to make it take less damage and hit harder, it has Earthquake to check both Tyranitar and Metagross in one slot (as well as Damp to stop Explosion), and Water Absorb in order to check or downright counter Suicune. With access to Hypnosis, it can run Substitute Focus Punch, although this then trends more into an offensive threat than defensive wall proper. Lastly, it gets Counter and Haze too, which would generally be less useful against the physical threats than attacking them. Despite this, Poliwrath's stats are too mediocre, and lacking a recovery other than Rest in combination with that makes it not generally useful enough to dedicate a teamslot to.
The issue with almost all of these alternative is that they are not enough on their own, and really make you want a second Water which in this metagame actually can hardly be afforded.
Lanturn, which has had meme hype behind it in the past, has the death sentence of being weak to Earthquake, along with having bad stats other than its HP; yes, it has unique roles others don't, but it needs a buddy. Politoed, which has virtually nothing going for it---meaning, despite having access to just about the same tools as Poliwrath, also doesn't have anything it doesn't have other than Perish Song (which unique trait it shares with Lapras [and Dewgong and Azumarill]), which does nothing against offensive threats and is just barely better than useless without a means of trapping (almost nothing gets Whirlpool, and these Perish Song'ers aren't one of the lucky ones).
You might be tempted to delve into NU, but the drawbacks are simple. Despite having an enormous HP, Wailords low defensive stats mean it is frailer than you might imagine (Hariyama has the same issue, which otherwise *could* have been a much appreciated "bulky fighting type" even if it just only had better Def or better SpD---it just doesn't take strong neutral hits well enough considering the lack of a recovery---and that's the common theme here in all of this, getting screwed by having no reliable recovery; even Life Dew would have helped some of these be viable). There's Pelipper, which has a high defense, so you might think it'd be a decent check to a typical Metagross or even Salamence, but it's the flip coin of Wailord where its low HP makes it frailer than it needs to be. It's not strong enough either to get much out of stray hits, along with a movepool that doesn't suit what it's capable of doing very well. Its attack is too low to check Heracross either. And finally Whiscash, which really does just about boil down to being worse Swampert with nothing practically usable to set it apart.
Gorebyss has Baton Pass alongside sharp defense boosts on both sides, and even Agility which could be significant, but low speed and low hp and no other practical moves; defensively, it is not good enough.
Another pure Water, Blastoise, which is so undersung even I hadn't remembered it while writing this, is another bulky water which, despite the fact it doesn't have a recovery, could still actually be generally usable given the right team composition. It is a water Rapid Spinner which isn't weak to just about anything Tyranitar can do, unlike Starmie, while also crucially being bulkier than Starmie. In fact, its movepool is potentially amazing, as it gets too Haze, Refresh, Focus Punch and Dynamic Punch and Earthquake, Roar, Yawn, Counter *AND* Mirror Coat, maybe even Mud Sport---it's a mon that could potentially be very interesting but has seen little experimentation. I have personally used it on a Snorlax team a couple years ago to compress physical offense check, spinner, and weather reseter into one role, and wasn't terribly disappointed by it. Just to mention it, Feraligatr actually has slightly more (physically relevant) bulk than it, but its movepool is devoid of the same defensive utility.
Azumarill is theoretically okayish bulk; gets Thick Fat too although that's not terribly relevant. But it effectively has no moves if you go physical and its special attack is completely none threatening. This pretty much disqualifies it.
Golduck has Cloud Nine which would be amazing to have in OU because of Sand Stream (and the odd Rain and rare Sun), but essentially no bulk, no unique resistances, and a very small selection of potentially interesting tools that it could never cobble together into something truly viable because of its middling stats and largely lacking movepool.
The two relevant Water/Rock types may have different viability on paper, because of Omastar's more-than-merely-usable SpA and access to Spikes, but they are both hampered by the weaknesses the Rock typing brings whilst it provides largely no relevant benefit for the OU metagame; they are not generally useful enough in the bulky water role to justify bringing. Corsola is another mon you could forget, and just about should forget, for despite not fearing status *and* having recover, is too limited by bad, inadequate stats and an unhelpful typing for the OU tier. Its movepool is very tempting (you should see it), but on paper it just will never work. Doesn't really hurt to try, though.
Then there's Slowking and Slowbro. No Slack Off; and of course no Regenerator. Slowking is essentially weak to everything, while not taking the hits well enough for it to get any mileage with its decent movepool. Slowbro has the better stat distribution for the tier but it's even more vulnerable to the special attacks that would plague Slowking while still not being strong enough to deal with them decisively. Its low speed means it's easy to wear down quickly in a match while it may never get the chance to even use Rest. It's weak to Tyranitar's potential Hidden Power Bug or Crunch while not resisting Rock Slide either---even with max defense, a flinch can be devastating, as it already would be for the similarly bulky (but better) Suicune in the same position. It's not a reliable enough mon and doesn't gain enough momentum on its own without having been positioned to do so over the course of a match---and bulky waters often don't have that luxury, being often the first or second line of defense, sometimes the only one, against potential onslaughts. And they have too many weaknesses and not enough bulk on both sides to run Calm Mind Rest like Suicune.