The Problem With Metalcore...
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- čas přidán 30. 07. 2024
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What's the problem with metalcore? How did we go from Killswitch Engage and As I Lay Dying to Invent Animate and Imminence?
Edited by Tim Gilli: bit.ly/tmgprmba
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0:00 Intro
2:57 Proto-metalcore
5:23 The REAL beginning of metalcore
8:18 The MySpace years
11:26 Modern metalcore
17:00 "The everyman" - Zábava
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As a Nu-Metal kid growing up who are these bands?
Mixed of both. BMTH innovates and mixes. They sometime get the right amount and level of screams in their songs
How many miles did you run this week Finn. Your looking a little pale 😢
MattressCore!
How do you feel about the amity affliction?
I'm so tired of drowning in the undertow, with my back against the wall, because the voices in my head are watching the world burn
maybe you need to wake up cuz that sounds like a spiritual awakening
Are you sure you’re not just longing to feel something even though the world is dark and bleak, but you know there’s beauty out there hidden behind all the clouds?
@@blaxie i’m so tired trying to drown my demons yet failing to reach closure. Seriously, we need a new-gen metalcore lyric generator 🤣
❤
And I need someone to save me because I am my own worst enemy and I'm falling into the black hole inside my head
15:17 "They write the same lyrics about being caught in the undertow or whatever"
I bursted out laughing 😂
TOOL catching strays.
It's so true tho
Numb by linkin park
@@RyanREAXI was totally thinking Tool. I'm a huge fan of LP idk how I didn't realize how fitting of a joke that was hahahah
was just gonna write that as well. :D
Early Killswitch, Parkway and Everytime I Die was a fun time to be alive
They were fresh and authentic then
But very early... First Parkway Drive Album & EP, First 2 Killswitch Engage Albums and first 2 Every Time I Die Albums! Hot Damn!!!🎉
Early every time I die is mathcore
@@atvenadefinitely free-bird-core
Its sad how BAD Parkway is now lmao
"It's lost all it's connection to the hardcore scene" - is the nail on the head. Metalcore used to have an unhinged quality to the music, which is completely lost in modern metalcore.
yeah like i hear people talk about how much they like Architects and stuff and I really jsut cant seem to get it. it's just so boring to me
same with motionless in white and all that sort of sound. some good ones ive picked up on though are bands like thrown, Blood Youth, Mugshot, Paleface and others that stick a bit closer to hard core.
@@Fleatotry the first 2 albums from them if you want traditional chaotic metal core. Next few albums they found themselves. Then Tom their guitarist died and every album after that has been generic djent shit and nothing good at all haha.
@@Fleato That's why Dying Wish's Album was so satisfying to my ears, it has that "dirty" older sound
Another thing that really hurts modern metalcore, in my opinion, is the current way that metal is mixed/mastered. Using the same guitar tones, same plastic drum sound, lack of low end, and especially everything being quantized and edited completely sucks the life out of these bands. 2000s metalcore wasn't particularly raw, but it at least had some breathing room and character. Even if a band has a unique sound now, the sterile production usually just hides it anyway
This a great point - makes all these bands blend together and sound the same, and then none of them actually stand out or sound interesting individually. For bands that don't follow this trend, like a Knocked Loose, I think it makes it even easier for them to stand out and gain mass appeal, cause it's so refreshing. The current mixing/mastering doesn't hold a candle to the sounds of the early 00s, like you said
@memiano440 thank you, and I'm so glad you used Knocked Loose as a positive example, because their sound is so refreshing. The mood, the aggression, and the identity are all there. As some others have said, bands like Dying Wish and Boundaries are thankfully carrying that torch, too. Maybe we'll see a bit of a shift over the next couple years
Three people are guilty of this: Andy Sneap, Adam Dutkiewicz and Kurt Ballou
100%
I think the mastering is fine. Imo the biggest issue is all of the bands try to play it safe and think far too highly of themselves and refuse to look or sound "uncool"
When he said “metalcore now feels like music by guitarists for guitarists” I felt that 😅
You know its sad but true. PLUS: Melodies are often not existent
He's definitely onto something there
@@jorabe8488 when the melo death riffs went away so did I. Don't like today's hipster djentcore
It's always the problem when single-instrument nerds enter the scene instead of all-around musicians who also care about art and expression.
As a guitarist myself, I don't have a problem with this. 🤓
Modern metalcore is to classic metalcore what hair metal was to thrash. Classic metalcore were a bunch of metal dudes who would sing sometimes. Now it's a bunch of instagram models who can scream sometimes.
Finally, so nice to see someone else also say this haha
Except that hair metal musicians were actually worlds ahead of thrash musicians in terms of musicianship and writing.
Every Punk Rock MBA video:
Finn: **Goes over the history, gives a few opinions, makes us laugh and makes it clear that gatekeeping is lame**
Comment section: *ultimate gatekeeping*
Without fail
The most accurate fact I've seen in this channel 😅
Adam D, and Joey Sturgis are truly the 2000's 2010's metalcore heroes
The new KSE album better be good or im done with core
Killswitch always kills it live ive seen them at knotfest n got to see slipknot also..killswitch sounded better but slipknot had the better Pyro n stage set up but kse will go down as one of the goat..alive or just breathing..fucking gives me a boner everytime
@@RyanREAXThey haven't made a bad album since the 2nd self titled imo.
funfact - Adam Dutkiewicz has music education in one of the best music school in the world - Berklee College
Hardcore/Metal fan takes:
2000: Nu-Metal sucks
2010: Deathcore sucks
2020: Metalcore sucks
Nu-Metal truly sucks though...
@@Onomere I kindly disagree sir
@@Onomereblasphemy
For sure all those huge numetal bands suck lol…
@@Onomereyou’re sooo cool and such a real metalhead! You did it!
Man. You nailed the description of what’s wrong with modern metalcore. For years I’m like wtf is wrong with this and why can’t I listen to it no matter how hard I try?
Finn saying what I've been thinking for the last 10 years. When he's right, he's right.
The revival of As I Lay Dying and All That Remains is F'n sick, just gotta make that clear rn. 🤘
New ATR is kinda boring though, in my opinion.
As long as Bands I like don't get tagged MetalCore.. I'm good..
I remember when I heard the tag...
As I Lay Dying were always great Live, Unearth, Himsa, From Autumn to Ashes, etc..
But must of the band's shown by This Kook...
Are those .. Wannabe scene Kids bands, the one's we called ScreamO..
Cheers from Southern California...
Listen to whatever you want.. Support the Bands..
@@Joosei’d say it’s cuz everyone left again. Through Fire was just amazing
@@Joose They peaked too early. I think The Fall Of Ideals was their pinnacle.
One of my favorite stories my brother ever told me is when he was in the same parking lot that Tim Lambesis was in when he was arrested for trying to hire a hit man to kill his wife. Great band tho 👍
I don't know anything about today's bands, but I will always love Killswitch & As I Lay Dying.
check out Dying Wish and Balmora
Dying wish is an amazing metalcore band. @@CheapSushi
@@CheapSushi Holy fuck Dying wish, I just listened to 3-4 music and that is definitely how I remember liking Metalcore, this band is amazing!
Even tho I don't enjoy music as when I was a teen I will keep on eye on the band.
Wasn't too keen on Balmora but Dying wish is def my vibe.
@@Alowne217 glad you liked them! they're awesome live too! try Forgiveness is Waiting at the Bottom of the Well by Since My Beloved or Acephale by xNomadx
@@CheapSushipooosers
Idc what anyone says, meshuggah was doing metalcore breakdowns in the early 90's 👀
Modern Metalcore starter pack:
•Only Black tshirts no logos
•1 or 2 members with beards
•warehouse music videos
•BMTH is their God
Surprised about thé bmth part
@@mathias841that came out of left field
Everytime I go to a punk/hardcore/metalcore festival and watch a metalcore band I vaguely heard of I always think 'every song sounds the same from every band I saw today"
bro i love metalcore
im a certified metalcore enjoyer
if metalcore has 100 fans im one of them
if metalcore has 1 fan its me
if metalcore has 0 fans im dead
we're 2 !
We’re 3!!!
We're 4
we are 5
stay away from my children
I would argue that there are types of breakdowns. Maybe they did come form hardcore, but Slayer's "Raining Blood," Pantera's "Domination," and Sepultura's "Dead Embryonic Cells" has breakdowns as well. Due to them all coming from thrash, it may still technically be true that breakdowns are a punk/hardcore element these songs featured.
breakdowns are a metal thing yeah, people who think breakdowns come from hardcore are just confused, hardcore is a punk variation
chugging riffs are a metal characteristic that can be traced back to NWOBHM
Knocked Loose, Code Orange, Jesus Peace, Vein. This is a very good example that hardcore and metalcore maintain a powerful connection. And they are very popular now.
Trying to tell knocked loose fans that they’re a metalcore band is so funny. They deny it up and down and swear that they’re strictly a hardcore band.
Metalcore has become so distanced from hardcore that genuine metalcore bands nowadays are hardcore. What a trip.
"Massugah with Linkin Park choruses." I've never heard it put any better. Modern Metalcore bores me to tears
I know it was a joke, but recent Invent Animate album is legit "try not to cry challange"
Most of good Bring me the horizon was "Linkin Park choruses" but with 2005 metalcore riffs and nobody was crying about it.
I dig that shit. Guess my subjective tastes are bad 😂
That start, stop breakdown style....I caught it pretty quick lol
MORE CIRCLE PITS
then make something interesting
That sounds sick af
To be completely honest, I am almost 35 and I still love metalcore to this day. This combined with numetal was what brought me into metal in the first place and even though if I’m not into numetal anymore, I regularly enjoy metalcore quite often, and I don’t get the fuss about thehating
Careerism turns everything into a product and to sell a product you make it as safe as possible. I'm not particularly interested in safe music, but to each their own.
If you listen to Invent, Animate's new stuff and think there's not much emotion in it, then you have no ears.
Using Invent Animate and Currents as a negative threw me off for sure. If anything, those 2 bands brought me back from deathcore to metalcore a bit
Invent is trash since the new singer.
@mic8040 oof I highly disagree. Heavener is a fantastic album.
he's kinda right tho, there's something really missing.
It's just boring. Finn doesn't use these words here because it's the PR MBA, but he would definitely say it on his other channel.
Finn, why don’t people talk about Rise Against? I love them and think they have a very very solid 4 album run. Would love if you did a dedicated vid on them
I first discovered Rise Against from a Tony Hawk game growing up and am so glad I did! Holy cow!
I found them out through Give it All in Need For Speed and they've been the only band I've consistently listened to for the past almost 20 years. And I'd call myself more of a metalhead, but RA is still my favorite band.
First time I heard them was Paper Wings in Burnout 3: Takedown, but I'd almost forgotten about them til I played Saviour on Guitar Hero World Tour and looked them up to hear more of their stuff.
I heard them on Adult Swim 13 years ago.
Saw Rise Against recently with Blink. Was a great night.
New bands to listen to if you miss classic metalcore:
- Sanction
- Vatican
- Balmora
- Dying Wish
- Foreign hands
- Cross of Dissbelief
- See No Evil
There's a pretty big revival around this stuff happening with zoomers. There's even a band in my town called XAblazeX that sound just like Walls of Jerico.
boundaries as well.
Foreign hands rock so much I didn’t even think of calling them metal core haha
Balmora is based af
Since My Beloved, xNomadx, xDeliverancex
Boundaries too
Haha I spit out my coffee when he said “caught in the undertow “🤣🤣🤣
Yesssss!! I agree 100%! The last few years of "metalcore" should be renamed to nu-metalcore. So many of these newer bands do not even have blast beats or 2step rhythms.
It's all a heavier style of Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit, Breaking Benjamin, Disturbed, Korn, etc.
No wonder I like new metalcore so much!
Good to see Chimaira in this. Great band that flew under the radar compared to their peers.
Agree. Used to be among my top favorites. I wish their later efforts didn’t fall off so much.
As i lay dying: an ocean between us. Is and always will be peak metalcore to me, albumn came out when i was 10 and it was the first thing that got me into metal
An Ocean Between Us is such a good album bro. It also helped me get into that type of metal early on. That and Ascendancy by Trivium
Shadows Are Security, An Ocean Between Us and The Powerless Rise were all GOATED
@@DoctorPerc The Powerless Rise is fantastic.
@@DoctorPerc Powerless Rise is my absoulte favourite. I love how they put in some deathcore vibes, but in a balanced way.
Agreed, now I don't know what they're trying to do. I didn't like Burden and the other song released a few days ago. Don't really like when they use such high notes in chorus. Which they did A LOT in Awakened I didn't liked any album since then. An Ocean Between Us was absolutely perfect for Metalcore.
That's what I love about Hanabie so much, they have that hardcore element and it has a very strong presence in their music, ESPECIALLY live.
We need more drop C and drop D 6 string guitar bands to keep it alive, Ill even allow drop B.
Love that you brought brand archetypes in this. Really makes the channel live up to it's name
Agree! That was a nice touch! Would love to see the brand archetypes come back in another video about more genres or brands, or mixed with tier lists or compasses
For sure more of this please!
Really fascinating, something that's been on my mind but I don't have the business background to really explain it. Loved this bit and the whole video.
If the original metalcore was the combination of metal and hardcore, then the current metalcore is the mixture of metalcore and nu metal
No it’s just a watered down derivative of djent with pop choruses haha
Na, its a mixture of pronouns and cliche laziness
Nu-djentlecore sucks ass
@@austingrothe2754 THIS.
Interesting
Imagine my shock when my fucking band is shown in the “modern metalcore” section of this video. I’m not sure whether to be flattered or upset for a couple of reasons.
My band is called Grieve, and the clip in front of the light wall at 11:40 and 12:35 is from our video “Empty Like Me.”
I appreciate that you found us, I don’t appreciate that in the midst of talking about how bands have no connection to the hardcore scene you pull a clip of a music video filmed and edited by our guitarist, who also mixed and mastered all the music that we’ve put out in the last 3 years, which we self published with no label support, paid for with money we made from selling merch we designed ourselves. DIY is the heart of what we do, our message about mental health is clear, and “I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that” is no excuse for using our image to push a message about what’s wrong with metalcore without so much as a credit for the clip you ripped from CZcams in the description.
If you wanna go after bands as examples of what’s wrong with metalcore, either do some extra digging before making an example of a band with less than 10k views on the video you’re using, or pick a band who’s actually guilty of losing what you claim the genre has lost. I’ve been watching your videos for a long time and seeing you punch down like this without so much as a courtesy of mentioning to us that you used our video is massively disappointing, especially considering you’re stacking us against pillars of the hardcore community like Black Flag and Minor Threat.
I don’t really care whether you find our music appealing, or if you connect with our message, or if you think I’m full of shit, but if you’re going to gatekeep, don’t front about how you’re not gatekeeping so people don’t complain when you’re pulling your clips from small local artists who put their blood, sweat, and tears into creating something. You don’t fuckin know us.
Hello I'm the Punk Rock MBA. I remember it so you don't have to.
That sucks man. Keep doing what you're doing. Will check out your band after this now to show some support
O7
Funnily enough, it's because he didn't credit you, that I'm finding out about the band
Not justifying it, but not crediting your band lead to the striessand effect, mentioning the lack of a credit has led me to find your band. Loving what you guys have on offer!
Thank you for pointing out your band because I thoroughly enjoyed that. Keep doing what you do and don't take this one guys opinion too to heart. You guys rule and your hard work and dedication will pay off.
Gonna go listen to that song now THANKS
Fellow old heads! Listen to **Boundaries**! These young men are playing some metalcore that harkens back to the music we grew up with. The folks in Dying Wish are also playing that old school style of metalcore and deserve your attention. I wanted to find new bands to explore instead of just listening to as I lay dying, kSe, IKTPQ, or old parkway and so far these two are the best
THIS
I don't agree. There are lots of great up-and-coming " revival core ' bands. Boundaries. Wristmeetrazor, Serration, Foreign Hands, Mouth For War, A Dozen Black Roses , Seeyouspacecowboy etc.
Tallah!
@@harrypottah8889 that's a nu-metal as i recall
@@eugeneedge587 tallah mixes subgenres tbh, i think the good/interesting bands these days are just doing whatever they want without a defining genre lol there's a lot of good music out there
That’s a good list right there. Been cranking Boundaries and Mouth For War lately
unfortunately see you space cowboy has gone some sort of odd pop punk direction
16:55 I'm definitely gonna be that guy and point out that's 43% Burnt, not Destro's Secret.
Someone had to say it. Even Finn know it.
Thank you for your service.
I noticed this too as soon as the song started
I'm blown away by the total omission of Darkest Hour as pioneers of the genre.
Well they're not lol
Did not mention POISON THE WELL once! WTF?
Man that Chimaira Pure Hatred clip was a blast from the past. I remember seeing them live in '09ish with Lacuna Coil, Killswitch Engage, and Disturbed. Great show.
Saw them on the Pure Hatred tour with Soilwork, Bleeding Through and As I Lay Dying. Man, those were the days. AILD opened that show. I feel old now. 😅
Some metalcore sways towards emo/screamo, other bands are more metal & polished like ‘as I lay dying’. I tend to enjoy the hardcore aspect. The dirty, messy & heavy sides of the genre. Things you would hear from one of the heavier underoath or Norma Jean songs. The guitars aren’t as polished but it has the metal spirit, leaning toward the heavy raw tones of hardcore.
I always associated it (probably incorrectly) with emo and scene kids. So for years when I heard this stuff I would automatically dislike it. I enjoy punk/hardcore and all sorts of metal so you would think this would be my jam. Maybe I just haven't heard the right bands.
@@joshabreu1156scene kids were hardcore punks, brother.
Source: was a scene hardcore punk
MySpace metalcore was 100% borderline post-hardcore
To sum it all up, metalcore become pop
I think you made a good point a while back that when nerds get into things, they ruin them. Metalcore is filled with nerds and dorks making the music and it’s overly clinical and formulaic
Edit: I disagree that this is what the fans want. I think that’s why Knocked Loose has gained a lot of traction lately, because they bring the hardcore influence back into it. Or maybe Drain with their thrashy hardcore riffs (speaking of, a video on crossover thrash would be cool)
Critic: Metalcore isn't 100% perfect on anything metal core touches.
R/metalcore: emotional keyboard warrior rage
Finn conveniently blamed every negative aspect of today's metalcore on metal lol
I so fully agree with this. The only connection to "core" in the genre now is breakdowns. Everything else is kind of Extreme Metal Lite™ with melodic, clean sung choruses. And most of the time, those choruses are just wedged in because that's the blueprint for metalcore songs, not because they actually fit the song. I know there are exceptions and current metalcore bands still creating great music, but overall it's been overcome with mediocrity and paint-by-numbers songwriting
@@CheapSushi I guess we're just ignoring where I said I know there are exceptions, and metalcore bands still making great music? I get that. But those bands are the exception, not the rule
I met Matt from Hatebreed when he was playing in a bar in New York.(Mid state near CT, Matt was their guitarist back in the 90's) And he was such a chill guy. We sat and bullshit(ed) for 2 hours after his set. Such a nice guy..
It seems to me that the metalcore scene from the 2010s onwards has very little to do with the original incarnation of the genre and it's only called by the same name on a technicality. Maybe if people didn't think of it as "metallic hardcore" and instead something completely new, it wouldn't be as frustrating for hard-core fans
Or maybe people need to get over the fact that music and genres sound a bit different over time. It's 2023 not 2000. Two decades have passed.
@@chloeryanvtuber Generally people would've established more genres to categorise new waves of music that emerged in that time frame. But 'metalcore' is a catchy buzzword now, and calling your band pop metal, nu metalcore or post-metalcore is probably marketing suicide 101.
@@codybulluss1987 yeah whatever you say dude, sure it's just a "buzzword". It's dumb how many genres there are already, who the hell needs more just to say "this is metalcore, but not for people who want everything to sound dated and boring"
Metalcore has become a simulacra. A copy of a copy of a copy.
@@terminaldeity literally all music has. Metal didn't just invent itself
Ironically, Simulakra are a really good newer band doing a much more authentic take on metalcore than most.
I don’t understand how you can call modern metalcore “metalcore”. It’s just so drastically different from where it was in the ‘06 era
@@Eirik36 Metalcore is a genre that has always been evolving, I don't understand how that's a bad thing. All rock in general has changed so much since it began. I will say that some of these bands are totally not metalcore at all though. Sleep token, bad omens, bmth, none of them are metalcore at this point. C-gate from japan is my favorite modern metalcore band, but they don't have a lot of music yet
@@Eirik36 It's pretty much just heavy pop now.
New old school metalcore bands that are actually hardcore: Adrienne, Since My Beloved, Balmora, Withpaperwings, A Mourning Star, Killing Me Softly, Azshara, Deadset, Unbrokenapologies, Razel Get Her Wings, Your Spirit Dies, Foreign Hands, A Dozen Black Roses, Simulakra, Cauldron, xclocktowerx, xServitudex, xelegyx, serration, Dying Wish, Wristmeetrazor, Seeyouspacecowboy(older stuff), memento, buriedbutstillbreathing, Serenity, Long.Way.Down.,
Ephyra records has been releasing nothing but fire. People overlooking this comment don’t understand how insane all these bands are and the scenes around them. The real deal and its insane to witness 😊
@@spongeybob100 Daze & Ephyra style forever. RIP Since My Beloved and Adrienne.
it's gotten to the point where your "metalcore problems" videos are actually more entertaining than metalcore itself. 🙃
Fin you'll never change my mind that Zao was one of the first metalcore bands Where Blood and Fire Bring Rest came out in 98
I’d say a little late to the first generation… hundreds of bands before them, they’re just the one that a lot of christian kids found first
Give me Trustkill and Ferret all day long.
Ferret! Whuutt yess
@@tonytoofast + Eulogy records
Edison was incredibly overlooked.
Listen to Dying Wish, Boundries, Foreign Hands, wristmeetsrazor, and Great American Ghost. Old school metalcore is still going strong, you just have to dig
Mic drop. Orthodox, Chamber, Mouth For War to name a few more 🔥🔥
I wouldn’t even say you have to dig, Boundaries is getting heavily pushed by Spotify. And they deserve all the praise they get!
If you have to dig, then it's not going strong
He knows that. But he will never admit that knocked loose is playing metalcore
if you like foreign hands check out Greyhaven too, it's a bit more post-hardcore/metal but without the post-hardcore cringe
16:53 .. that's not Destro's Secret... that's 43% Burnt
'Metalcore lost the core part and became a sub-genre of metal', this line of yours sums up the entire video. Nearly 20 minutes saved.
Old guy who hasn't enjoyed anything since the 90s tells you why everything made post 90s sucks. That sums up this entire channel idk why we need hundreds of videos
@@Meeces55 That's not true at all, Finn does enjoy things made post 90s... In fact that golden age of Metalcore of his, headed by Killswitch Engaged are very much early 2000s metal not 90s. In fact Finn actually dislikes a lot of the classics(pre 90s) like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, etc.
@@Owlr4ider sorry the cutoff is 2005 instead of 1999 my bad.
He apparently enjoys newer pop and rnb music so the dude probably grew out of metal and now only enjoys the metal that he liked when he was actually a metal fan.
Periphery accidentally ruined metalcore.
They just tried to make dental/prog metal more accessible to metalcore fans
who?
@@AKmumu😂
They also ruined prog metal too. I have no issue with them directly, they're clearly talented. But they pioneered that "djent with weedly-weedly riffs that constantly use the whole fretboard, mixed with pop" sound is basically everywhere now
@@pAWNproductionsDE What you just described with the "djent with weedly-weedly riffs that constantly use the whole fretboard, mixed with pop" isn't really djent, but Swancore which relates back to Dance Gavin Dance because it's named after their highly influential guitarist Will Swan. If you want a bigger problem with Djent and Metalcore, it's the lazy integration of Shoegaze, particularly the band Deftones, influence.
Dying Wish is one of the most recent metalcore bands that give you the 2010's metalcore vibes and feels. Theyre great.
Fuck that, gatekeep. Sometimes people forget that once tours over, it’s back to the stockroom at target, or answering phones at pizza hut
Gatekeeping is what kept bands on their toes
@@Megaalith fr fr
You have to remember that Finn is one of those kids.. why he likes some really pop music...
In reality.. listening to Music that is the complete opposite to Pop.. should make it Impossible to except.. Trending Pop.. but the argument is always.. open minded.. I listen to everything.. it's Poser nonsense..
Cheers from Southern California
I see you got a lot of great bands like The Ephemeral, Saving Vice, Patient Sixty-Seven, and the boys on our label, We Were Giants! A lot of great bands in the current Metalcore scene in my opinion 🤘
Also funny enough the photo you used of Metalcore bands was the photo banner I made for an article for upcoming Metalcore bands in 2023
I transitioned from Metalcore to a Deathcore enjoyer.ƪ(˘⌣˘)ʃ
this happened to me too
I believe it slowly happens that way for some! Then progress to slam@@onatkd533
there's a core focused deathcore revival too going on right now, especially the bands in the Florida scene
Yep same here, and I prefer the more modern stuff mostly. The beatdown style from the late 2000's isnt for me, I like the more metal leaning symphonic dark shit.
I've always liked both.
This could also be applied to the music industry overall its very sanitized and boring
Definitely one of the best videos you’ve made in a while. Felt more authentic, like your older content. Appreciated the insights based on your personal experiences and the marketing analysis.
Is it fair to say metalcore went from "metallic hardcore" to "hardcore metal"? Some say it's a continuum of crossover thrash, which crossover thrash is treated as metal by the metal scene.
As a new englander I’ve always been a fan of the fact that we have our own genre of heavy music that though we didn’t entirely create is very heavily associated with us
So dope, I'm from NH and saw so many of the bands at local schools around 2000 to 2004. Saw Unearth at Dover NH highschool.
I got into metalcore or NWOAHM in college when Killswitch Engage, Lamb of God, God forbid, Shadows Fall... etc were just coming out. I remember really being into the whole Trustkill, Victory Records roster too. I was getting into Hardcore and Metalcore at the same time and it was this cool new thing to me because I was a nu metal kid in highschool so the sounds were more extreme and it felt less gimmicky. Like a lot of other people, KsE will always be the GOAT band for me. I got into them when Jesse was the singer, but Howard is my personal favorite vocalist for that band. I don't really know who's who nowadays in metalcore, but I still will jam the classics.
Sir. You literally just described my thoughts exactly.
I started in late 90s with some mid-90s In Flames, but every band you mentioned 1st cd gets played in my rotation at least once a week.
Man, same here! Especially, discovering all the compilation cds had a hot topic for around $5. Discovered alot of bands through that route since noone knew in school listened to metal. Here in utah, it made you a "satan worshipper" 😆
Agree with you 100% on killswitch and every other project those guys have done.
@@jbanne001 Killswitch stollen their sound from Carcass "Heartwork"
@@jaredbabilis3768 Yep! I discovered a bunch of new bands when I worked at hot topic because they always had music playing and the complication CDs. It was some good times back then! Geez, a Satan worshiper 😂.
@@FELTSZ Lamb of God stole their sound from At the Gates, who cares?
So the connection is that social media and everyone thinking they can be a celebrity as a result, is the reason everything declined hahaha
Metalcore metaphorically was just an energetic spastic kid who grew up. Started out as a wild child who was bouncing off the walls, then started to get more complex emotions and had a weird emo phase, but now is more rounded off in the corners. Has a kid, a wife and a mortgage. Still reminisces his youth but wants something easier to consume as an adult
Killswitch is always gonna be the best for me. This makes me think how sick it is whenever Jesse and Howard appear on tracks together. Jesse bringing the hardcore sound and Howard bringing the operatic Dio sound. And of course Adam D the genius with the antics. The perfect blend that gives me so much emotional response in their sound and I don’t get bored of it like a lot of these newer bands sounding the same
Howard sounds nothing like Dio lol.
@@TheSyl63 BOth are Dramatic Tenors
metalcore is just BUTTROCK-influenced now and feels on the edge of radio rather then on the edge of sociality
You are not listening to metalcore then, there are lots of amazing modern metalcore bands out there
@@tomasaguiar8482 gimme some suggestion
@@AJbassist bands still doing that 2000s metalcore sound that I love are Boundaries, Dying Wish, Her Last Sigh and War of Ages, for example. But I think there are some amazing bands doing different stuff and they are not radio friendly at all, check out Allt, I love this band
Every era has these bands.
I can’t think of single metalcore band that’s butt rock influenced
Wage War , Fit for a king , The Devil Wears Prada and Of Mice and Men are only considered with going mainstream that they would probably switch to the style of Five Finger Death Punch or Something even more poppy if given the chance. I miss the Killswitch era of metalcore so much.
That entire first Vision of Disorder album is a masterpiece, I listened the hell out of that back in the day and highly recommend it, that first song Element is a banger! 🔥
Maybe I'm just getting old but I can't say any of the new metalcore bands make me go "I need to listen to these guys" not in a bad way, they just don't make me feel anything. Bad Omens is probably an exception and even then I still haven't listened to their new stuff yet. Contrast that with new bands I love who are doing either whatever they want (Darko US) or majorly influenced by nu metal (Dropout Kings, Hacktivist)
It's like everything where evolution occurs, the longer it goes on the more it evolves away from its roots and becomes more watered down. As metalcore has been around so long, the bands aren't influenced by the same music as in earlier days.
Alot of the younger bands are bring back the metalcore sound and message from the early years of metalcore. Balmora, roseblood etc the younger scene is bring that sound back and it's amazing
Even the so called metalcore bands now dont have a specific cothing style. I remember metalcore bands typical style like tight jeans, cool hairstyle, vans, denim jacket and tanktop which i think from 1980s hardcore and punk. Bands have been like random pop stars from 2020. They are undistinguishable from artists from other genres.
I am one of these kids, metalcore even to this day is my metal…
I've always been more of a thrasher / traditional metal guy, but some of my favorite albums of all time are metalcore albums. Waking the Fallen, the Fall of Ideals etc.
In the 80s, Thrash bands combined Agent Orange and Sex Pistols with Accept, Venom, and Judas Priest ...and it was sick.
In the 00s, Metalcore bands combined all the Hardcore bands you mentioned and Melodeath and Groove Metal ...and it was sick.
its crazy... its almost like music marketing traffics unsustainable amounts of attention into trend cycles, while forcing bands into narrower and narrower genre conventions it created trying to replicate the economic success of other acts. Frankly metalcore is doing great... foriegn hands just dropped a bop
I'm still waiting when somebody will invent gothcore😁😁😁😁
That probably exists but I'd be happy to make music in that style lol. I think Confide's such great heights cover is new romantic but also metal core, so if they wore all black in the music video it could be considered goth core.
@@12ealDealOfficial Nooooooo, nononononono! I don't talk about another metalcore subgenre - I talk about possible mix of oldschool 1980's like/early 90's like hardcore punk without any metal influences with oldschool gothic rock as early The Cult, Virgin Prunes, Bauhaus, The Sisters of Mercy, March Violets etc. etc. I think even the covers on these band's songs in hardcore style would be sound very organic
Wellll... Metalcore went Nashville
Is that to say cookie-cutter?
Heres' the thing. If we have this over saturation of similar message/similar riffage etc, we have to ask, is the market over saturated or are there really that many peeps out there that are feeling this? Are there that many fans that are wanting and therefore buying this? Once a real over saturation happens the market will self correct as people become jaded to the same, and true artists will simply play what feels right because they weren't trying to fit a genre in the first place, they were trying to hit a feeling.
Okay I get some of your points but no way you said there’s no emotion anymore and then played a clip of Without a Whisper???
Thank you Finn for talking about Warped Tour and "No Rockstar Mentality"
I really missed this era and the fun crabcore scene kids, you can really tell this was the last efforts of mono-culture and sense of community 🎶
On the west coast it never had any singing in it. Metal core was metal with hardcore not hardcord and singing. We called that crapcore or post hardcore and that was after MTV got a hold of it
Metalcore isn’t a monolithic genre. Like every other music genre it has sub-genres. Melodic metalcore is as different from progressive metalcore as melo death is different from progressive death. It’s an important thing to differentiate the sub-genres. That OG style is still alive and well.
I am personally a classic metalcore enjoyer and one thing that I love in metalcore is uniqueness, aggression and also dissonance and tasteful complexity (in spite of being more of a mathcore thing) and I'm really picky in sounds which is the reason I don't find anything interesting in modern metalcore when drums and guitars sound MOSTLY the same and loudness war is a whole other conversation. Those classic metalcore albums from 2000s-ish like Jane Doe by Converge, Bless the Martyr by Norma Jean, Opposite of December by Poison The Well etc for example have their own unique drum sounds or distinguishable screaming voices or riffing styles that my ears like and lyrics didn't seem quite cliché-y like today. Some of those newer "clichecore" or octanecore bands especially make me cringe a bit for a reason
No way Finn actually said "Stafe & Sale" at the one minute mark and left it in
You have people who cant accept change or artistic freedom if it doesnt fit there narrow parameters of what they consider to be “art” this is exactly the attitude every older person had towards nu-metal when it was popular now its a trailblazing era, to say a genre is “stale” due to a persons own narrow minded perception is a pretty ironic statement.
@@alexmarr6131 you typed quite a paragraph towards a comment about a guy mispronouncing two words
We should stop calling modern “metalcore” bands metalcore. They are clearly something different. Metalcore died in the 2000s.
Post deathcore
Popcore
@@KelticKabukiGirl
Yeah no 😂
I'm a literally DxC fanboy, it's more a kin to "nu-" or beatdown, which both are more hardcore sounds.
DxC is mostly on a symphonic black metal, Thall and a MySpace revival sounds.
@@AnimosityIncarnate I used to gig with 90s bands like Overcast, SHadows Fall, DIllinger, Hellfest99, Took Unearth on a Mini Tour, Boston Metal FEst 99. If its post 2000s I have no idea
Post-core
The genre had lost a step in last 5years??? Nah, we have more diversity and talent in Metalcore than ever
You forgot to mention Falling In Reverse , Sleep Token , Loathe , Spiritbox , Sleep Theory ect . All these bands are all doing something different and outside the box of metalcore
Spiritbox is a mixed bag. They have Cellar Door but then they also have Jaded. If an oldhead’s first impression of them is Jaded then yea they’ll rule them out as a cliche metalcore band.
Last "Foreign Hands" album (a band from Delaware) sounds like PTW of our era if not better, guys working hard since 2015.
Almost every event they do tributes to PTW
Depends on what you want to find I guess, there always be who likes the old traditions, just do not put your youtube filters on rating🤷
Foreign Hands rips so hard. I like them better than PTW lol
302 represent 🔥
Love Foreign Hands, although sometimes I feel like they rip on their influences a bit too much. One of their first songs has a note-for-note copy of a 7A7P riff.
Stafe, Sale and bland?🤔.
DERRR YOU SURE GOT HIM GOOD!! GOOD ONE BOSS DARRR
Yes 100% modern metalcore sucks so hard
So stafe and sale, he had to put it in bold words on the screen
Finn, I don't know if you'll ever see this but...
I LOVE these types of videos. You help me, a teenager from Serbia, understand alternative culture in America and to love these bands even more.
I've been watching your videos since 2020. Keep going. ❤
Do you not consider the new, more hardcore influenced stuff Metalcore? Like Dying Wish, Boundaries, Kublai Khan, Foreign Hands, SYSC, and Knocked Loose? That stuff sounds super fresh to me. Definitely agree with you re: the Djent strain of Metalcore.
I love all core music..it all has a place in the music scene
Idk man False Meridian and Immolation of Night by Invent are pretty emotional
I see the point he's making with other bands, but I feel like Invent Animate was the worst band to choose for that section. They're one of my favourites specifically because of how much emotion they have.
@@Shadow8P I think by emotion Finn may have meant anger or emotion that makes you wanna move. Saw Invent live and while the performance is great and Marcus has an awesome voice, hearing Heavener live I noticed the crowd was just listening and admiring, not moving. This is definitely not bad but in contrast, you're not listening and admiring at a hardcore show
Idk why it looks like Kaonashi is getting shade when they litterally have hardcore influences and have played this is hardcore fest twice. Also what about bands like: Mouth for war, Chamber, Boundaries and bands of this vein (like Vein FM) having hardcore influences throughout their music?
I feel like this genre became a thing and evolved at the same time as my love for hardcore and metal. I'm 39. When I was 17/18 I started getting into metal and hardcore. There was nothing I wouldn't explore. I branched out from NuMetal and discovered hardcore, melodic death, thrash all of a sudden, it was like a sensory overload. Then KSE appeared. It was like the perfect blend of everything I loved. Having started with Earth Crisis, Stampin Ground and Madball, I fell in love with Hatebreed who dropped Perseverance only a few months after I discovered the band. At the same time I'd fallen in love with At The Gates, Soilwork, Bodom and In Flames (and Dimmu Borgir) whilst all the while listening to bands like Merauder. I was checking out Machine Head and Pantera and at the and time everything was suddenly evolving. And then BOOM, the NWOAHM & NWOBHM started, then metalcore was born and KSE released AOJB. For me it was the perfect blend of everything I loved. It had the heaviness of metal, the aggression and groove of hardcore and the melodies of MDM and melodic thrash. To me it was and is perfect. But now...this newer idea of metalcore to me is totally disconnected. Where are all the band that sound like Bullet, like KSE and God Forbid, like AILD? This new metalcore movement isn't hardcore x metal. It's 2000s era post-hardcore / screaming turned ultra heavy. It's not the same thing but it's still called metalcore. And everyone sounds the same. Bands do intentionally sound just like every other band. It's very sad. Sometimes you can hear the talent but I shake my head during songs thinking this would be such a good moment for a melodic riff...like where the hell have guitar leads and dual harmonies gone? Where are the breakdowns that make you want to jump around going mad which are actually catchy? Breakdowns in modern metalcore almost seem borrowed from deathcore rather than hardcore and that in itself is so far removed from hardcore breakdowns already. I am yearning for bands who loved hardcore and MDM to make metalcore. I'm tired of every band sounding like a slightly heavier The Devil Wears Prada with a girly chorus. I miss bands like The Sorrow. Nato. Early All That Remains and Unearth. Roadrunner Records had the metalcore scene covered for so long but then moved away from it. The 'Andy Sneap' sound with Arch Enemy/ATG x Hatebreed bands. Modern metalcore bands sound safe, conformist and devoid of songwriting and melodic ability. Bring back lead guitars, dual harmonies, gallops, chugs and catchy midpaced breakdowns!