The Problem with Multiversus Ranked
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- Multiversus recently released their ranked mode and it leaves a lot to be desired. In this video, I talk a lot about what I think the problem is with Multiversus ranked and offer a few suggestions on how it could be improved upon going forward.
Stage bans NEED to be there. My main is considerably worse on Dexter’s 2 for example and leaving that up to chance is never a nice feeling.
Fax
I find Dexter's 2 way too tiny to fight on.
They need more stages to dp that😂
No one like dexters besides characters who's attacks cover basically the entire stage aka Jack.
@@krabbcake8371Jokers LOVE that stage, if you kill off the top its your best friend
not going to watch the whole video going to disprove your whole vid by saying that if u rank up to masters you get cool skinss
"Nice argument, unfortunately, i did the love to your mother".
- A wise man
Thanks for making a video about this because I was confused about why I a gold rank was just getting masters non-stop. The worst part about it is how limited the mmr range is. You need to play at perk hours or you will be paired with or fight the same people most of the time unless you destory your mmr.
I think the only suggestion I have is regarding the ranked rewards. Having the background banners exclusive for seasons is something I love (or would love with the badges) but I would prefer if the character specific skins were not strictly season based and were instead based on which character you get to what ranks. Like if you main a Finn and get him to masters you’d get similar skins to jack’s ranked skins but for Finn. And so on for the other characters. This would not only incentivise players to play more of ranked but learn and master other playable characters too. Rather than reward people skins for characters they don’t play.
I’ve been getting -29 a loss and +9 per win. Keep in mind I had a 5 win streak and lost 2 games and I ranked down. It’s complete bs how brutal the ranking system 😵💫
My biggest gripe with the game is the Lock In Character feature. It's kind of like the adverse to MMR where I think it should be locked to Ranked. It was so much fun in Beta to try out different characters and strategies between matches and now you can't. I miss the old CSS 😢
Beta still made them locked but true
I actually like how it is now. I hated when I would beat a Garnet player only for them to switch to Bugs or Shaggy game 2 and 3. The matchmaking was based on whatever character you locked in for game 1 and people would abuse that.
Yeah i way preferred that to what we have now
@@Billymaysx That's a good point, but they could make it like Splatoon, where you have the option to play it out as the sane character, or swap out your character or perks, I feel like that would encourage player adaptability and creativity. Because truth be told, I used to play all sorts of characters in the Beta just because. Nowadays I only play Finn and occasionally Garnet.
They should ditch different ranks for different characters. It makes Matchmaking even more scuff and for something that isn't that important.
Is cool to have a "Master Rank [Character]" and it also gives people reasons to keep grinding (getting multiple characters to master)
But this could have been done with mastery lol. Also even if they say "well my bronce Bugs is worst than my Master Batman" but you are not a bronce player yourself bro, even if your Bugs is bronce you are at worst Platinum 2 at Bugs.
Also about the bo3, I would love it if they incentive bo3 instead of forcing it. Like if you play the full set, you get more RP or get a reduction on how much RP you can lose if you lose. (edit: okay you said just what I was thinking haha)
About stage bans. I would only add this on high elo like, from Diamond and above. Really you don't need that for lower elos or casuals that just want to play a match.
I agree with the overall point - that being that the ranks themselves are more grind-based than skill-based, making them lose a lot of meaning. I love a lot of the suggestions too; placement matches, stage picks/bans, swapping characters mid-set, and all that are also great suggestions. I think placement matches would have solved almost every issue with ranked in the first place, really; going through Bronze feels kind of awful lol
My personal suggestion would be to make RP into Elo or something like that, which is a more "normal" measurement of skill. I also think a form of ladder decay may be useful if there's ever a permanent leaderboard, and a "universal rank" across all characters would be nice to encourage general skill.
But there are a few disagreements!
Firstly, I'm not sure how BO3 can't be forced if you introduce counterpicking characters and stages. This becomes a large part of the metagame when introduced; setplay, how you pick pocket characters, what stages are best for you, and so on, these all influence the tiering of a given character. In Yu-Gi-Oh, for example, Master Duel has a BO1 ladder while real-life TCG has a BO3 with side decking (basically counterpick cards) format; in Master Duel, dozens of decks become viable solely because of the lack of counterpick options, creating a completely different format. If you take away forced BO3 in MultiVersus, playing a character stronger in a BO1 setting becomes a legitimate strategy, even if you penalise the amount of rank points you get. You'd have to do a lot to strongarm players into using the quit feature "fairly". Is that really what we want? It just feels like these suggestions contradict each other.
I feel like the experiences between strong and weak players in Bronze may be a bit exaggerated. While it's technically "harder" for us, the weaker players would still be matched with players of their skill level. It'd be better to phrase the argument as "the experience is static across all levels" - that's the actual problem.
I don't think I've ever had the experience of fighting a Master-ranked player, despite going like 18-0 just tonight. The highest-ranked player I fought was a Plat I Rick while being Plat V myself. Like, that player was juiced as heck and I had to sweat a ton, but I still had a lot of fun and the experience was nice. I've enjoyed fighting strong players all the time and personally dislike the "stomping phase" of lower ranks in less polished ranked games; I really think placement matches would have been good...
Insanely good points the devs need to see this.
I second this
they saw, they dont care!
Big problem I experienced with rank yesterday is the fact that the court is in ranked.
The issue is that there are floating rotating hoops on each side of the map that at random can prevent a ko it’s really frustrating.
Also while I’m not the type to whine about balancing I will say the game feels currently in its least balanced state it’s not unplayable but characters like Black Adam and Ayra just dominate the higher ranks.
Agreed, there's so many things PFG can implement to allow players to customize their experience, like additional "Best of X" voting options. I actually think this would also decrease toxicity among the playerbase, which is another big issue.
Also, toasts are incredibly broken in ranked, when you can only toast back from the results screen and you're in a mode that eventually forces everyone to quit.
But I don't agree that we should be able to swap characters in ranked, as realistically, most players are rolling the dice with randos and not able to communicate with their teammate, so there's really no strategizing outside of perk deck synergy.
I mostly agree with everything in the video, but one thing was wrong, if you are starting to climb with a new character (at bronze) and you beat a diamond/master opponent (since you have high mmr you are gonna be matched with them) you do get to climb a full tier with just winning 1 rank match, I've gotten +500 RP to climb from bronze to silver, and +500 RP to climb from silver to gold, effectively climbed 2 whole tiers in 2 or 3 games, I think that is good, also I haven't had that happened at all from Gold to Platinum
Good video!
Looked up your Jason rank in 2s and noticed you were 13th. Thought that was neat :)
Great video as always👍 , I agree with everything except changing characters after a set. I believe that perks (which we definitely need more of) are what should allow you to deal with certain matchup disadvantages. In real life tournaments it's fine but for online play I think you should stick to the character/team you chose originally with the option to change perks in order to help your weak points. I believe there is more reward in figuring out how to beat a team rather than switching to a strong meta team just to avoid losing the set and protecting your W/L record.
Couple of things you got wrong. 1. They did change the system to give more points to Bronze players facing masters, I saw on Voids stream he got over 200RP for a single win when normally before it was giving 30RP max so that is a step in the right direction. 2. You can't just play bronze players to masters. If you are in platinum playing bronze players you will lose like 3x as many RP as you gain when you win, so you will need above a 75% win rate to climb. While ranks are largely meaningless being able to hit Diamond or Master on a character means you have been winning a lot against very good players consistently or you at least are winning at a ridiculous rate against newer players.
I think the optional best of 3 would be great. I do think this will be bad for certain characters though because I can't see people willingly rematching Morty's or Arya's. I also would love placements. As someone who plays a lot of characters, I wanna get them all to masters but it's so tedious having to start from the way bottom even though I know I should be higher.
I don’t think it’s actually as easy to get to Masters as you convey, although I agree with most of your points. I entered this ranked season as a high MMR Lebron (top 36 in Beta, top 1500 overall), and climbing has become tough at Platinum 1 and Diamond 5.
Before they implemented best of 3 matches, I ran into GSMvoid in 2v2. We lost, and still plummeted like 22RP.
When it comes to rematches, what I thought of is allow the losing player to choose if they want to rematch, while the winning player is forced to it. That would make it so if you get stomped and you don't wanna play (many casuals don't care that much about improving, but just want fun, even/easy matches), you can choose not to, while also maintaining the advantages of bo3s.
Does anyone know how points work in ranked cause I lose 18 and gain 10 sometimes 15 ?
so you could game the system by losing a bunch of games in regular 1v1 and 2v2 then do ranked and have super easy opponents mixed with others gaming the system? Does 2v2 take an average of both peoples mmr
really hope pfg sees this and hears it loud and clear
I primarily play samurai jack, i know people claim he's strong and hard to deal with which may or may not be the case as I have had a rough time dealing with finn players and their 0 to death backpack 🎒 loops, Arya stark players and their seemingly intangible hurtbox, tom and Jerry players and their obnoxious projectile playstyle, joker players pulling off their ladder combos, rick players, morty players, jason players with their over powered teleport that they can combo into a teleport shouldn't hit that hard in my opinion, the list could go on...
Aside from all that I've made it to platinum rank II and at this point I'll be glad if I can make it to diamond rank V just for the diamond jack skin, like you mentioned in the video I've beaten a master rank jack and ive beaten a few diamond rank players but got diddly squat from beating them in Rank Points "RP" which sucks a lot and winning meant nothing even if i won 3 matches in a row the moment i loose to some cheesy 0 to death combo I'd loose more "RP" than I won and that's not really cool bro, I hope they can make it better before this ranked season ends so that everyone has a chance to get those ranked based skins, either make it to were you wont de-rank or just make it substantially less when you lose a game in ranked beyond gold and for those who want to say their the best "player" let them continue to climb with their rank as far as points go and get that top leader board score they can still claim their fame by doing that.
Plus a lot of folks have jobs and don't have all night and all day to deal with these try hard trolls online
Yeah the whole MMR system needs to go for ranked. They mention how they implemented it as a way to not have people hard stuck and ironically I’m hard stuck at diamond because I’m getting master level gains and losses since I played in the beta and would presumably have a higher MMR.
I would like the idea of stage picks in ranked, but honestly I’d rather just see stages like Dexters 2 and Cromulons either removed or have the blast zones changed because it’s way too easy to get cheesed on them. Dexters 2 should be wider with further horizontal blast zones and Cromulons should have a higher top blast zone.
I definitely don’t agree regarding BO3. Forced BO3 is a huge W imo because in every single fighting game, it is always more beneficial to decline rematch on losses and ask for rematch on easier wins. Encouraging BO3 does nothing because people will always ignore said encouragement for whatever they personally want (which is most often free wins). Not to mention one-and-done’ing doesn’t allow you to adapt to your opponent at all. There are several times where I’ve lost game 1, learned how my opponent plays, and then countered them to win games 2 and 3. I honestly wish more games like Tekken 8 for instance would implement forced BO3 because it’s far too easy to gimmick cheese your way to an undeserved rank.
I have some faith that PFG will listen to the community and improve ranked for season 3, but I won’t hold my breath because there’s still a lot to work on to improve the game
One thing I HATE in ranked mode is that it’s IMPOSSIBLE to go up, you win once you get +9 you lose once and you get -25, LIKE HOW????
i’m gold 4 with taz and i played the number 13 banana guard my first game on today. i didn’t even want to play another one
I genuinly don't get it, duos is completely messed up. I'm in diamond at the moment and most of the times get paired up with competent teammates, each win gets me around 8 to 12 rp and every loss costs me -25rp. Thing is I woudn't get mad if the game always paired me up with good players, but out of nowhere it decides to put me with players that have overall 30 wins in their account. It unmotivates me to keep playing as hours of winning go to waste in like 2 losses.
Personally I really don’t care fir ranked
I wanted it because I wanted the actually nice playable stages every time I played online since who the hell likes townsville but the system disuades me from playing especially 2v2 given it doesn’t exactly tell you it’s best of 3 when you join and that’s quite a time investment
I just want to get the cool masters skin, but I can't climb out of Plat 4. Makes me want to kill myself.
Let him cook. I’m in Gold V facing Masters constantly. So difficult to even rank up .
00:25 you spelt "environment" wrong
i’m Master on Agent Smith (1v1s) and I could care less about the ranked system, especially when the game still suffers from the same issues it had in beta… primarily bad hitboxes and inconsistent netcode, so I can’t see why anyone would care about their rank when these problems still exist, as well as the overall balance of the game being terrible, Arya being the prime example… I’ve beaten my fair share of Arya players on my climb, but you can tell when it’s a bad player who just wants free wins because either their main sucks or the top tiers are just too strong in comparison… there’s legitimately too many other things to address in this single comment and giving criticism in this community is like beating a dead horse, so I’ll put it like this - in its current state, this game is the farthest thing from competitive
As a beginner you just get swarmed with people who just shit over you. Its not fun without prior knowledge in those kinda games. Not a single game feels fair.
I'm new and get matched with master players always. Got bronze rank and same thing
Ive only watched about 3 minutes of the video but idk if its true you dont go up alot when fighting better players. Idk how it worked but i play tom and jerry and in doubles and singles im plat, but i played finn for a little bit and won a couple games and one game i went up 400 mmr, instead of the regular like 40. Idk if this is cause of the skill based matchmaking or the fact that my tom is already high ranked
Ranked was honestly rushed that’s a 50/50 blame for that the community and the company for honestly they need to figure out how to reduce the rat players in ranked because honestly 95% of the players in ranked are spammers and using carry characters players like that shouldn’t be master ranked nor top of the leaderboards and they should add the feature where you can decline and accept matches so if you fought John Doe before and know he’s a spammer you can decline and not worry about losing major points against a spammer
I’m diamond and it’s hard to get up
"looking at you court 2" how do I like a video twice😂
great points
“Matchmake against rank, not mmr.” “Only allow swap to character of same rank or lower.” Dude, I wish Overwatch did this. I’m sick of this mmr trend. I feel like it just encourages smurfs and no one respects the ranks. I just want a hard-ass ladder to climb genuinely. There’s nothing more accurate to skill than where you are on simple ladder… sick of games pretending they can analyze my gameplay and adjust rewards/losses accordingly.
I’m in bronze but have the same mmr as jmafia so I’ve only played like 4 ranked games and just stopped playing the game
I think a character draft feature would be nice so you can make an effort at team building with randoms, but not stages. I don't want starter-counterpick infecting another game. In practice people just use it to effectively delete a single stage they don't like from their experience and then cry about 'having' to use their ban on it to get it removed from the stage list entirely instead of just engaging with the game. You need stages that put people in their place.
I say just show stage before character pick if people want info, but have the stage selection itself be random. That way it's not blind, but if you like an unpopular stage you can actually play on it. In my experience Soul Calibur tournaments use random stage select and stages there determine the presence of an entire win condition.
Yooo u look a bit like shaggy from live tv 😂…trust it’s a compliment
I didn't know MMR determined who you fought in ranked. I consider myself a competent player and was wondering why I was having so much trouble getting wins in bronze and silver. I thought I just sucked.
Also, big on not being forced into best of threes. I often just can't commit to potentially three matches due to time constraints.
Tell me about it, played a decent bit in the beta up to like 800 wins or so, didn’t play much of season 1 in May but I’ve been playing a little since season 2, my bronze and silver matches have been the same matchmaking as normal games, I can face people in diamond while in still in bronze
It’s competitive for sure but not I thought facing people in similar rank made sense
Also agree with the best of 3s taking very long, when it was one match each I was advocating for sets but after seeing how ranked works might as well be the one match
I don’t get this ranked nonsense, I had 18% win rate as gold 4 and was getting put up against platinum player with 70% win rate lol it just don’t make sense
They need to give us more points and I don't like how they will partner me up with a bronze player then make me fight platinum fighters. At least give me someone in my rank.
No reason i should be fighting platinum fighters with my BRONZE III BANANA GUARD WHILE STILL WINNING?? 😭
Only Multiverse can fuck up ranked this bad
Forced Bo3 is pretty bad because when someone doesn’t want to finish the set, they just D/C
A Bronze should not be able to matchmake with a Masters
Sup Shaggy
It depends on the sense of accomplishment to different people sometimes it gives them purpose and they do enjoy it. But for me it’s a pile of garbage.
I hate ranked ill play 8 games win 8 games go up like 50 rp then lose 3 games and im negative 60. Its stupid
yeah this ranked mode sucks and they are focusing in the "casuals" in a game with 2k players
With every time I find myself or someone else asking "Why would Player First Games do this", more and more my conclusion leans towards them just not knowing what they're doing.
Skill based matchmaking is bad. It encourages people at their edge to NOT play the game. Just use rank and winstreak. Period. SF6 has been using that and its been amazing. I legit had to asked, being afraid, if SF6 using SBMM and when I heard that it doesnt have that I knew I could continue playing and enjoying the game.
The benefits of SBMM are ALL thoretical. None of them hold up to reality.
I largely disagree with the idea that loosing matches should derank you. Especially if they’re gonna be locking skins behind being in the higher class, there’s no point in punishing players so hard for loosing when its not really their fault that the person they went against has more skill, especially at the beginning of a season when master players start in bronze and need to climb their way up the ladder again because theres a good chance you could be put up against an objectively better player than you and derank through no fault of your own. In my opinion, losses should not give RP while wins give RP based on how well you did in a match (damage dealt, stocks taken, match time, etc.). You’ll still stagnate on a rank if you’re loosing a lot/just barely winning, but there’s no punishment it just means you need to improve and as you climb that ladder and opponents that seem unbeatable are more and more likely the more you’ll have to improve to keep up
Agreed, that would make it nice for those who are casual players that want those skins, for those who just want to prove themselves to be the "best" players id say let them continue to climb to the top of the leader boards.
All that being said the game still has a lot of glitches to get rectified, I play samurai Jack and made it to platinum II and I'm struggling to make it to diamond rank V
There's also some instances were I would be stuck floating on the corner edge of the stage leaving me vulnerable to being attacked for essentially free damage, the game is fun but it still needs work to be done
This rank system is the worst I’ve played out of any fighting game. BUT I will say, that the gain and loss of RP is so horrible and soul crushing anyone who achieves master gets an applause of iron will from me. Let alone master 1.
Skill based matching ruins games.