Good discussion glad you gave asoiaf a chance it’s hard to consume other fiction afterwards because grrm sets such a high standard for story telling but in the end it’s worth it even with just 5/7 of a story
It would have been nice if we heard more from her. I can't imagine why he wouldn't want to hear her opinions more than regurgitating his own for the 100th time.
Bookborn with Schwifty and Glimbus or Quinn and Haven (both of these duos at different times really) would be really interesting to watch. Especially since I have seen both of the latter two in her ASOIAF review videos comment sections.
I love how she’s so amenable in so many ways, SO often, but then every so often she’ll throw out absolute BANGERS like “I think people like to think we’re more original than we actually are”
This is something you begin to come to terms with in your 30's. Most of us grew up being told we were special. Parents tell this to their children to help build confidence. Then as you grow older you realize that you're not, and all of us will mostly be forgotten. "all we are is just dust in the wind" after all.
@@Bodharasexactly. Being told I am somehow special did more harm to me than good. The realization that I am not was painful. Literature kinda helps in the realization too.
Cat may not be my fave character, but hell she's written so well, and reading through her chapters I really appreciated her perspective on Northern culture and how her story growing up affected how she approached her own family and how she moves politically. It's so relatable. Also, Preston, my fave series of yours is Genetics of Dragons!
Catelyn IV Clash of Kings is my favorite chapter in ASOIAF. She isn't my favorite character, but that peek inside of her psyche is beautiful to me in how she relates the faces of the Seven to people she loves...then shadow baby at the end
I’m really surprised that people can’t differentiate between a favourite character in fiction and someone you’d actually like to have beer with. Some of my favourites are the villains. Doesn’t mean I’d love them IRL.
Love the idea of Bookborn slowly making the rounds around the ASOIAF community to talk about the books. Begging on my hands and knees for her to have an Alt Schwift X and Glidus encounter
I suspect the line Bookborn used to work out the alchemist was Jaqen H'ghar was when Pate asks "Who are you?" and the alchemist replies "A stranger. No one. Truly."
makes sense. seems like the last thing the faceless men should be saying to people though. that'd be like if i'm going to rob a store and tell the clerk "these prices are a STEAL ;)"
hes just spent too much time in this material. he brought so much of us to view it deeper and appreciate it and then he kept going to the point of being super cynical about it. The contrast here is amazing and hopefully he notices it a bit. Hes not wrong he just is overly cynical at this point.
I am 5 minutes into this video and decided to turn it off. I followed and loved her journey thru the story and here within 5 minutes, this guy has decided to be wet blanket and constantly destroy her wonder in the story and world. Wtf
My god yes! Not even 10 mins in an Preston’s making me cringe with all his hyper-overanalytic perspectives on the series and him backpedaling once he hears Bookborn’s totally normal “just started my first reread” takes on everything. Preston forgets to enjoy and appreciate the character driven nature of the series and hyper fixate on every little “illogical” thing in the given narrative.
I think that Jon being observant in Game of Thrones and later not being observant isn’t that strange. People change. His main characteristic early on is his bastardy whereas later on he’s a man of the nights watch and of the free folk. He’s the lord commander and he’s got a lot of things to deal with.
I agree. I took it as him being overwhelmed. He's just a kid with a huge responsibility. You are gonna start missing things when you are actively trying to save the world from ice monsters, while contending with huge groups of people who hate eachother and your sister potentially being tortured by the man who stole your family seat. In fact, I'm a 33 year old adult and just summarizing it gave me some anxiety lol
I like to blame the fact that when at Winterfell he was a bastard, his siblings were above him and he would feel left out as a result like an observer. At the wall Jon almost takes a higher status role, He's well trained and can fight, becomes steward to the lord commander and receives a special sword for saving the Lord Commanders life.
Preston not the only one with that take. I heard this once from alt shift x. But imo Jon problem in ADWD was not that he stopped being observant but that he didn’t knew how to make a right decisions. And maybe there wasn’t right one. Of course he knew he antagonised his fellow watchers but you still would be shocked by sudden attack to kill you
Bookborn.. Don't feel bad. I missed *sooooo* much on my first read through. It made me realize how much I wasnt actually paying attention while I was reading material. Changed a lot about how I read stuff afterwards.
I believed literally everything that was said in the books. I completely stayed away from any theories while not being done and then for some reason the first video I watched was the Dornish Master Plan and boy, did that change everything :D NOt that I believe Preston is right with everything or anything, but it changed my perspective, and only then I realised that the POV-Chars could be wrong or lieing about stuff or people could lie or be wrong about stuff they tell them.
Preston's probably put about as much thought Into this series as George has at this point, when you're that familiar with the material all the flaws become glaring and all the seems obvious.
He made a statement that made a lot of sense to me. Something on the lines of after awhile and a couple rereads you see his writing as human and can see the flaws. When before they aren't as obvious. GRRM is still a brilliant writer, but when you surround yourself with a subject you see everything. It happens with any favorite medium. My favorite band I thought was flawless. I love them. I go to a bunch of shows. I used to think of them as perfect. Now, if they make one mistake I hear it as clear as day.
I'm finally finding more than Alt Shift, Glidus, and David for this content. Edit: Looks like this will be a useful comment for people looking for channels. Thx for the replies.
Company of Cat, Quinn the GM, Disputed Lands, Radio Westeros, History of Westeros are all great channels for anyone. Order of the Greenhand, Interesting Nerd Club, Eldrich Stoneskin, and Neurotic Nathan are all great channels for those trying to study the higher mysteries.
There's also a new-ish channel that’s awesome! Crusader Chris. And wasn’t there Kevin Pendragon or something like that who did some very in-depth Varys series?
And Joe Magician! How could I forget! Just rewatched his A Targaryen Murder Mystery on Dragonstone, plus many others in preparation for HotD, and they were even better than I remembered
Really wish Preston didnt bring so much of his pessimism and headcanon into this interview. 50% of this was just him telling her how she should feel or what she should think.
Yes, it would have been smart to let her talk, as much as possible, about her take and understanding of the books, and Preston reserving his takes/opinions as long as possible to prevent "coloring" her opinions
@@desmondmyers It felt really womansplainy to me. Telling people how to feel and stuff. But yea thats why I quit. It's really annoying and I'd really prefer if people didn't do it. Edit. Oh yeah, and sorry for mansplaining definitions for you, but it ad to be done.
Bob Weir is more than just a guitarist. He is also a singer and an absolute legend. I’m a massive deadhead as well as a big fan of asoiaf but I never knew the weirwood trees were named for him! That’s amazing! The fact that Martin was such a fan of that era that he incorporated it into his work makes me love the series even more.
Then why even fucking introduce it? Lol. Bro It's not like time travel was this thing bran constantly did in the past books that he has to learn is bad. Lmao I swear people want just this story to be as boring and meaningless as possible.
This makes no sense - you can't travel to the past -oh shit, he did it -oh no, it was bad, let's not do that ever again It would just be - you can't travel to the past -oh ok DONE
A lot of them aren't his original theories. It's hard to tell which are his especially if you heard them here first. But at this stage literally everything possible has been suggested on the ASoIaF forums. He took a lot from there and added to it or made it his own.
It’s truly the most hilarious thing in this video: „there was this discord in the community started by a theory by some people that Bran can actually time travel“ mate YOU started (or at least popularised it)
@@individumm5366 I would say he definitely popularized a bunch of theories. But most of them had been started long before Preston joined the fandom. R+L=D, Time-Traveling Bran, and even Quentyn is alive (I think) were started elsewhere.
Bookborn was right about the time travel stuff. It won't be a problem. So what if it's just a small little world element that leads to Hodor being the way he is and then left as this mysterious thing about the world and maybe a potential future? That's cool.
I literally found her channel a month or two ago when it popped on my recommended and quickly watched many of her videos. So this crossover us unexpected and neat
I honestly never noticed Jon was so perceptive in the early chapters of a game of thrones, i'll have to re read them to see if I notice it (now that I think on it Jon does notice some small details in the feast in the first jon chapter)
Just read that chapter again a few nights ago, and I think Jon is meant to come off as brooding more than he is observant. Half of his "observations" are just him making wild leaps about people based on their appearance. What's really going on is Preston Jacob's has convinced himself George made a bunch of errors and retcons, but it really isn't true. The first book has symbolism and foreshadowing for the entire series. If anything, it's remarkable how early and consistent the symbolism and foreshadowing appear in the story. The chapters contain stories within the story itself for those with a keen eye. The level of planning and efficiency of words in these books is nothing short of genius.
He was written as a loner I my eyes, and most loners are very observant. Jon’s a Wallflower early on but also very mad that he’s a bastard and basically has no option for an honorable position other than a man of the nights watch like his uncle. Cat also ignored him and made it clear that she hated Jon, I don’t blame him for being brooding loner.
Early Jon sounds to me like a dour teenager who thinks they know everything and they're so good at everything then Jon finds out he doesn't know shit and humbles himself
I love Bookborn because she's pretty much on the same page as me about everything, including favorite characters and how we view them. It's cool to see someone experiencing the story independently without all the fandom influence and landing on the same sorts of conclusions about characters that I did when I first read the books in high school. I'm just like 'yes, yes, you get it!'
Preston is too used to talking too much. Let your guests speak! --This is meant as constructive criticism, I also struggling with talking too much. We all know Preston's opinions about GRRM, but this is a good chance to hear the thoughts of a new reader. I'm glad he asked about female perspective, that was a great question. I think ASOIAF has a lot of female readers.
That's what I thought when I finished Feast in 2006 and read the afterword from 2005 promising Dance the next year ("I devoutly hope," he had added in parenthesis).
LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I've been waiting for this since her first review came out and I'm so excited to see it's almost 2 hours long. With this and the Trey video we have been eating good
This was a great discussion. I've followed Bookborn for a long time (her content is great), even back in the days when she said she could never read ASoIaF, and watching her become a huge fan of the series once she was willing to try it has been very enjoyable to watch. I look forward to seeing her back here some time in the future!
My belief is that dany is daughter of Rhaegar with Ashara Dayne. Re-reading, I just realized that GoT has the first Dany chapter just after Jon's, and he argues with Benjen about bastards and wanting to join the NIght's Watch. It would be very George to make a story about a bastard (Dany) who lived a live thinking she is a Princess, while a Prince (Jon) lived his live believing he's a Bastard.
But we already have a bastard that is raised as a prince and then king in Joffrey. Alongside Myrcella and Tommen. Re-read Arya's first chapter Jon says during the training yard scene that princes won't be harmed by bastard blades. The irony is that Jon is the actual prince and Joffrey is the bastard.
This lady has just finished the books for the first time and you're projecting so much of your opinions onto her it feels a bit much for me. There was greater value in letting her share her own thoughts FIRST on things rather than you waffling on about retcons because you microanalysed everything to the point of resentment. I really don't think there's any value in talking about alleged retcons with someone coming out of it the first time.
I knoww it's so painful. And he talks as if it's obvious and everyone should notice these things, but Preston himself has admitted that this reread is the reason he's noticed all these issues. It's so weird to just assume that someone on their FIRST reread would immediately be ready to have a more negative feeling of the story. That's not how rereads of praised stories typically go, and it just doesn't in this case.
58:00 Thank you for mentioning this bookborn. Early in asoiaf it felt like anyone could die at any time. However, in in the last 2 books, it seems GRRM has blown that out of the water. Hoping he rekindles that sense of dread in the early battles of Winds!
The time travel part its pretty much the same concept the autor of the manga attack on titan used, a character does exactly what bran its doing and the reveal explains eveything on the story, it relates to dune as well. A character in attack on titan discovers that can see memories of his predecesors, past people that inherit a thing that he has (like a parasite). Then he can see the memories of past "vases of the parasite" and at some point he realizes that he can talk to them, so he starts to manipulate around "his past selfs" kinda manipulating himself to break the system, it has a tree and all, and the themes revolve around free will.
Před 2 měsíci+1
I wish more people would read, I need people to talk about books with.
I sometimes think some of what confuses people is that they're trying to approach George just from one lens of understanding. Be that history parallels, his own life experiences, his own past work, or other fantasy works he gives shoutouts to with Houses in his world, or what classic fantasy is, etc. But very few put all of those different lenses together. Usually, if something is confusing, it's because a different lens is needed for understanding it. The closest to getting all of the lenses is Preston, but he lags in some of the history parallels and outside works George references. Quentin isn't just a meditation on the folly of war, his entire plot is ripped from history where Charles Stuart, Prince of Wales, traveled in incognito with his more handsome best friends to see the Spanish Infanta about a marriage alliance that ended more or less the same way Quentyn's journey does with him feeling desperate for the journey to have meant something because getting rebuffed by the Infanta was inconceivable. Then there's Olenna as prisoner. That is ripped from a series of French Historical novels from the 40s/50s that George RR Martin wrote the forward to the most recent English translation to calling "the original Game of Thrones". Les Rois Maudits is a series of historical novels all about the Fall of the Capetian dynasty and the lead up to the 100 Years War. And in the 4th book, the king who is rather cruel and Joffrey like is killed by an old woman sneaking a poisoned almond into his chambers herself. Followed up by her poisoning his infant son who is her godson and king all because the infant king's uncle is married to her daughter and likely to rule in favor of her keeping her lands instead of awarding them to her nephew Robert. It's how George blends and synthesizes all these ideas together that's his particular artistry. Sometimes he does well with them, other times he doesn't.
Thanks for having me and sharing all the deep lore with a newbie 🙏
you have NO IDEA how many people in the fandom are severly nerding out over this crossover
Good discussion glad you gave asoiaf a chance it’s hard to consume other fiction afterwards because grrm sets such a high standard for story telling but in the end it’s worth it even with just 5/7 of a story
Watched all your videos about ASOIAF as they came out, and they were so cool.
I did not expect this crossover.
And I am pleased!
This was THE collab I was hoping for after your AFFCs review.
This is the real life equivalent of bran meeting bloodraven
Lmao thats great
brilliant
True true
LMAO
😂😂
Poor lady finished the series then she had a 1 on 1 with the mad man himself
It’s not and never will be finished…
Unbelievable
Speechless
Unfair fight…she really taking it so well. I’m so impressed by her humbleness.
@@76seahawk Oddly enough, it isn't, but if he never finishes, it will be that much easier for people to finish reading by virtue of less words.
Bookborn is slowly descending to our collective madness.
slowly? I'm RACING towards the madness finish line
Right? You can SEE it real time 😂
@@Bookborn Finish line? There is no finish line. This is our Sisyphus's Hill. Welcome to the struggle my friend.
@@Bookborn I was about to say the same thing, it's the fastest "fall" I've seen yet! Glad to have you along
@@BookbornPersonally, my favourite Preston series is his breakdown of Brienne's arc. I just love it.
“How do you feel about Quentyn?”
“Quentyn is dead” 😂😂
I mean he is. Lol
Nooo!
Preston truly believes Quentyn is alive, I think he's dead going forward but I do think george left the door open.
She right tho
Quentin is alive!
"The fans argue about this" = Preston came up with a crazy theory and the fans argue with him about it.
That’s exactly what I thought, like the fans he meant him 😂! Gotta say half of his theories are not crazy…. Or has he converted me into crazy too? 😂😂😂
Lmaoooo
@@Temperancefp He's probably wrong about half of this...
@@turbobus4983That's the fun part! When TWOW comes out so many theories are going to be blown up, and new ones created!
100% 😂😂😂😂
Hearing from bookborn was really refreshing, preston and the community can get extremely negative but hearing from someone with fresh eyes is great.
PJ hates on grrm out of jealousy
This. I love the optimism of new blood.
We r all depressed
@@pyramidion5911 this but unironically
It would have been nice if we heard more from her. I can't imagine why he wouldn't want to hear her opinions more than regurgitating his own for the 100th time.
You have no idea how much I wanted this
You are not alone my friend!!!!
This was a surprise to be sure but a welcome one
It’s like Christmas 🥰
Bookborn being integrated into the asoiaf world is my ever Christmas 😭
Well.. this is the collab I’ve been waiting for since I found bookborn a few months ago.
Fun to see Bookborn doing the ASOIAF rounds, hope to see her in the next Alt Shift and Glidus food ranking stream!
Bookborn with Schwifty and Glimbus or Quinn and Haven (both of these duos at different times really) would be really interesting to watch. Especially since I have seen both of the latter two in her ASOIAF review videos comment sections.
Hahahahahaha that would be CRAAAZY 😂😂
I love how she’s so amenable in so many ways, SO often, but then every so often she’ll throw out absolute BANGERS like “I think people like to think we’re more original than we actually are”
This is something you begin to come to terms with in your 30's. Most of us grew up being told we were special. Parents tell this to their children to help build confidence. Then as you grow older you realize that you're not, and all of us will mostly be forgotten. "all we are is just dust in the wind" after all.
@@Bodharas just a drop of water in the endless sea. all we do crumbles to the ground but we refuse to see
@@Bodharasexactly. Being told I am somehow special did more harm to me than good. The realization that I am not was painful. Literature kinda helps in the realization too.
Was NOT expecting this collaboration, but I am very glad it happened.
Preston sheepishly trying to convince her to read his fanfiction is adorable
60% of the video: PJ trying to convince Bookborn GRRM is a bad writer
40% of the video: PJ trying to convince Bookborn to read his fanfiction
LMAOO
39:04 Preston's Evil Laugh when he is about to talk about time travel haha 😂
Ruined my life fr
@@Bookborn The show confirming it as book official was a slap to the face 😭
Oh she is a sweet summer child 🥲
She doesn't even believe Daario is Euron 😂 wait til she figures out everyone is Euron
@@pyramidion5911 Patchface is Euron
@@cameronfield4617Hot Pie is definitely Euron
Daario, Euron, the dusky woman, Syrio and Jaqen walk into a bar. He orders a drink.
@@pyramidion5911 Except for Benjen, who is Bronn.
I thought this was a George update when it first popped up in my notifications lol
I didn't even think about the implication of "I just finished." I'm sorry, man.
@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin lol all good, sir!
Let’s be honest we’re probably never going to get that update.
@@scolioscraps8612 my bad for being optimistic 😂
I thought the same
Cat may not be my fave character, but hell she's written so well, and reading through her chapters I really appreciated her perspective on Northern culture and how her story growing up affected how she approached her own family and how she moves politically. It's so relatable. Also, Preston, my fave series of yours is Genetics of Dragons!
Catelyn IV Clash of Kings is my favorite chapter in ASOIAF. She isn't my favorite character, but that peek inside of her psyche is beautiful to me in how she relates the faces of the Seven to people she loves...then shadow baby at the end
I’m really surprised that people can’t differentiate between a favourite character in fiction and someone you’d actually like to have beer with. Some of my favourites are the villains. Doesn’t mean I’d love them IRL.
Yeah… try telling someone you like the Greens in Fire & Blood/HOTD
I'd have a drink with yong Aegon to be fair @DCharles
Totally agree!
No one in their right mind would want to hang out with Walter White, for example, lol.
@@DCharlesAegon is the one true king.
Alternate title: Preston Ruins ASOIAF for Innocent Girl with Theories
Love the idea of Bookborn slowly making the rounds around the ASOIAF community to talk about the books. Begging on my hands and knees for her to have an Alt Schwift X and Glidus encounter
I suspect the line Bookborn used to work out the alchemist was Jaqen H'ghar was when Pate asks "Who are you?" and the alchemist replies "A stranger. No one. Truly."
YES!!
makes sense. seems like the last thing the faceless men should be saying to people though. that'd be like if i'm going to rob a store and tell the clerk "these prices are a STEAL ;)"
@@smitty1647the guy he was talking to was about to die, so...
@@smitty1647with a cheeky little wink at the end 😂😂
Preston's cynicism really shows in contrast.
Yeah, I noticed that too. Maybe it comes from years of analyzing every detail of the books for his theories or the Winds fanfic.
I thought Preston sounded old. I felt old too as a result. These sweet summer children will do this to you!
hes just spent too much time in this material. he brought so much of us to view it deeper and appreciate it and then he kept going to the point of being super cynical about it. The contrast here is amazing and hopefully he notices it a bit. Hes not wrong he just is overly cynical at this point.
I am 5 minutes into this video and decided to turn it off. I followed and loved her journey thru the story and here within 5 minutes, this guy has decided to be wet blanket and constantly destroy her wonder in the story and world. Wtf
My god yes! Not even 10 mins in an Preston’s making me cringe with all his hyper-overanalytic perspectives on the series and him backpedaling once he hears Bookborn’s totally normal “just started my first reread” takes on everything.
Preston forgets to enjoy and appreciate the character driven nature of the series and hyper fixate on every little “illogical” thing in the given narrative.
Preston: George is a genius.
Me: Aww. That's nice.
Preston: He's also awful
I think that Jon being observant in Game of Thrones and later not being observant isn’t that strange. People change. His main characteristic early on is his bastardy whereas later on he’s a man of the nights watch and of the free folk. He’s the lord commander and he’s got a lot of things to deal with.
I agree. I took it as him being overwhelmed. He's just a kid with a huge responsibility. You are gonna start missing things when you are actively trying to save the world from ice monsters, while contending with huge groups of people who hate eachother and your sister potentially being tortured by the man who stole your family seat.
In fact, I'm a 33 year old adult and just summarizing it gave me some anxiety lol
I like to blame the fact that when at Winterfell he was a bastard, his siblings were above him and he would feel left out as a result like an observer. At the wall Jon almost takes a higher status role, He's well trained and can fight, becomes steward to the lord commander and receives a special sword for saving the Lord Commanders life.
also the dude is drinking mulled wine like every chapter lmao. not exactly hard to get your senses dulled when youre on the train to alcoholism
Yeah, I picked up on this too. Weird take from Preston.
Preston not the only one with that take. I heard this once from alt shift x. But imo Jon problem in ADWD was not that he stopped being observant but that he didn’t knew how to make a right decisions. And maybe there wasn’t right one. Of course he knew he antagonised his fellow watchers but you still would be shocked by sudden attack to kill you
I have been watching her book reviews of ASOIF and I wasn't expecting this interview. What a nice surprise
Yooo unexpected pairing but so makes sense when you consider how level-headed Bookborn is toward characters the fandom tends to hate!
Cat is wack
"I just finished A Song of Ice and Fire in 2024" - a quote George r.r. Martin wishes he could say.
Bookborn.. Don't feel bad. I missed *sooooo* much on my first read through. It made me realize how much I wasnt actually paying attention while I was reading material. Changed a lot about how I read stuff afterwards.
I believed literally everything that was said in the books. I completely stayed away from any theories while not being done and then for some reason the first video I watched was the Dornish Master Plan and boy, did that change everything :D NOt that I believe Preston is right with everything or anything, but it changed my perspective, and only then I realised that the POV-Chars could be wrong or lieing about stuff or people could lie or be wrong about stuff they tell them.
I didn’t realize how negative Preston’s views and opinions can be compared to most lol
Preston's probably put about as much thought Into this series as George has at this point, when you're that familiar with the material all the flaws become glaring and all the seems obvious.
@@CallousCarter idk about as much as George but I agree with the flaws, I just don’t think none of them are big deals tbh
@@chrisviolante1953 Ye I agree its mostly minor apart from them not being finished!
He made a statement that made a lot of sense to me. Something on the lines of after awhile and a couple rereads you see his writing as human and can see the flaws. When before they aren't as obvious. GRRM is still a brilliant writer, but when you surround yourself with a subject you see everything. It happens with any favorite medium. My favorite band I thought was flawless. I love them. I go to a bunch of shows. I used to think of them as perfect. Now, if they make one mistake I hear it as clear as day.
@@chrisviolante1953 exploring negatives of something can be an expression of love
Bookborn: I love these books! George is a genius
Preston: George is a genius but let me show you why the books are bad
But they aren't
Most of the things he points out is absolutely nitpicking
@@inigo137 Agree
I'm finally finding more than Alt Shift, Glidus, and David for this content.
Edit: Looks like this will be a useful comment for people looking for channels. Thx for the replies.
Only just saw her with couple others talking theories yesterday. My feed is hit or miss on the daily.
I really hope she chats with David. She would absolutely love his symbolism.
Company of Cat, Quinn the GM, Disputed Lands, Radio Westeros, History of Westeros are all great channels for anyone. Order of the Greenhand, Interesting Nerd Club, Eldrich Stoneskin, and Neurotic Nathan are all great channels for those trying to study the higher mysteries.
There's also a new-ish channel that’s awesome! Crusader Chris. And wasn’t there Kevin Pendragon or something like that who did some very in-depth Varys series?
And Joe Magician! How could I forget! Just rewatched his A Targaryen Murder Mystery on Dragonstone, plus many others in preparation for HotD, and they were even better than I remembered
Really wish Preston didnt bring so much of his pessimism and headcanon into this interview. 50% of this was just him telling her how she should feel or what she should think.
Yes, it would have been smart to let her talk, as much as possible, about her take and understanding of the books, and Preston reserving his takes/opinions as long as possible to prevent "coloring" her opinions
Yeah it’s feeling extremely mansplainy to me and I’m not sure I can get through it because of it
@@desmondmyers It felt really womansplainy to me. Telling people how to feel and stuff. But yea thats why I quit. It's really annoying and I'd really prefer if people didn't do it.
Edit. Oh yeah, and sorry for mansplaining definitions for you, but it ad to be done.
I made it 5 minutes into this interview before turning it off precisely for that reason
It was nice to see her shut down his nonsense repeatedly though.
I hope Bookborn is convinced that the comet is a Volcryn by the end of this video
Bob Weir is more than just a guitarist. He is also a singer and an absolute legend. I’m a massive deadhead as well as a big fan of asoiaf but I never knew the weirwood trees were named for him! That’s amazing! The fact that Martin was such a fan of that era that he incorporated it into his work makes me love the series even more.
Now this is a crossover i have to watch
Maybe the Hodor thing just serves as Bran's lesson on why he shouldn't interfere with the past
Great point
That is my thought about it.
Then why even fucking introduce it? Lol. Bro It's not like time travel was this thing bran constantly did in the past books that he has to learn is bad. Lmao I swear people want just this story to be as boring and meaningless as possible.
But Hodor was always like that, before Bran did his thing too. So he didn't rly change the past. It always happened, it was ment to be.
This makes no sense
- you can't travel to the past
-oh shit, he did it
-oh no, it was bad, let's not do that ever again
It would just be
- you can't travel to the past
-oh ok
DONE
lol love Preston saying "some ppl say" when it's him saying it. Not even acknowledging that it's his theory lol
A lot of them aren't his original theories. It's hard to tell which are his especially if you heard them here first. But at this stage literally everything possible has been suggested on the ASoIaF forums. He took a lot from there and added to it or made it his own.
It’s truly the most hilarious thing in this video: „there was this discord in the community started by a theory by some people that Bran can actually time travel“ mate YOU started (or at least popularised it)
@@edmann1820 Yep, if he said "my theory" there would surely be comments pointing out he's claiming theories he didn't make.
@@individumm5366 I would say he definitely popularized a bunch of theories. But most of them had been started long before Preston joined the fandom. R+L=D, Time-Traveling Bran, and even Quentyn is alive (I think) were started elsewhere.
Oh, and Lemongate, of course.
I found Bookborn a few months ago, so I'm very happy to see you two collaborating!
Wow omg the only thing better than finding a video you were looking for is finding a video you weren't looking for
Great to listen to someone who isn’t jaded about this series haha
Bookborn was right about the time travel stuff. It won't be a problem. So what if it's just a small little world element that leads to Hodor being the way he is and then left as this mysterious thing about the world and maybe a potential future? That's cool.
George RR Martin literally never writes that way
That feels like something D&D level writers would do not George
I don’t think I’ve ever used the word “lovely” to describe anyone, but, she is absolutely lovely. Smart, sweet, and adorable.
The crossover I only ever dreamed of
Didnt even think it was an option
@@mtl9985never would’ve guessed in a million years this would happen
This is going to be fascinating
I literally found her channel a month or two ago when it popped on my recommended and quickly watched many of her videos. So this crossover us unexpected and neat
I honestly never noticed Jon was so perceptive in the early chapters of a game of thrones, i'll have to re read them to see if I notice it (now that I think on it Jon does notice some small details in the feast in the first jon chapter)
jon has no pov chapters in feast
@@mymaynee5963 was refering to the winterfell feast in a game of thrones should have made that more clear
Just read that chapter again a few nights ago, and I think Jon is meant to come off as brooding more than he is observant. Half of his "observations" are just him making wild leaps about people based on their appearance. What's really going on is Preston Jacob's has convinced himself George made a bunch of errors and retcons, but it really isn't true. The first book has symbolism and foreshadowing for the entire series. If anything, it's remarkable how early and consistent the symbolism and foreshadowing appear in the story. The chapters contain stories within the story itself for those with a keen eye. The level of planning and efficiency of words in these books is nothing short of genius.
He was written as a loner I my eyes, and most loners are very observant. Jon’s a Wallflower early on but also very mad that he’s a bastard and basically has no option for an honorable position other than a man of the nights watch like his uncle. Cat also ignored him and made it clear that she hated Jon, I don’t blame him for being brooding loner.
Early Jon sounds to me like a dour teenager who thinks they know everything and they're so good at everything then Jon finds out he doesn't know shit and humbles himself
I just got current with the series too, this was great and well timed to listen to for me! Good stuff, guys.
I love Bookborn because she's pretty much on the same page as me about everything, including favorite characters and how we view them. It's cool to see someone experiencing the story independently without all the fandom influence and landing on the same sorts of conclusions about characters that I did when I first read the books in high school. I'm just like 'yes, yes, you get it!'
Wow literally the greatest crossover of all time
Everytime someone hates on Catelyn, a CotF cries
dies***
I mean, they're creepy little buggers and are trying to manipulate mankind, so f em 😂
Sings***
Preston is too used to talking too much. Let your guests speak!
--This is meant as constructive criticism, I also struggling with talking too much. We all know Preston's opinions about GRRM, but this is a good chance to hear the thoughts of a new reader. I'm glad he asked about female perspective, that was a great question. I think ASOIAF has a lot of female readers.
When i saw Bookborn's review of ASOIAF i instantly recommended Preston's channel... so I'm extremely glad for this 🎉
> Only Ned and Arys Oakheart are 100% dead
What do you mean? Ned is alive. He's Daario Naharis.
Of course Ned is alive.
Edric Dayne that is.
can’t wait when you start discussing Quentyn
Just came from her theories video 😂
OMG YES I saw her other video about theories and I was desperate to hear her talk with you!!!
Awesome collab! Been following her journey. Epic to see you two together
Preston just so hurt that Bookborn doesn’t like his Quentyn theory
It's his fan-fiction disguised as a theory XD
You naming Theon and Victarion as your top characters must've been very confusing for her lmao
It would've been before Dance! I see the vision tbh
Add Jon Con to those two and you got my top 3
Oh shit, was not expecting this crossover. Bookborn has now truly entered into the depths of ASOIAF madness. Welcome.
Bookborn when she finished the last book, "Ok now I dont need to wait as long for the next one"
That's what I thought... in 2015 😆
That's what I thought when I finished Feast in 2006 and read the afterword from 2005 promising Dance the next year ("I devoutly hope," he had added in parenthesis).
The game of thrones fandom loves bookborn 💚💚💚
Two of my favs in the Ice and Fire crossover universe we never expected. Fantastic 😍
I'm so nostalgic! I finished ADWD in 2011. Game of Thrones was just starting and so true to the books and just fantastic.
LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I've been waiting for this since her first review came out and I'm so excited to see it's almost 2 hours long. With this and the Trey video we have been eating good
bookborns asoiaf vids brought some much needed perspective to the fandom starting it knowing it more than likely wont be finished
The collaboration that I never knew I wanted! Nice one guys 😊
This was a great discussion. I've followed Bookborn for a long time (her content is great), even back in the days when she said she could never read ASoIaF, and watching her become a huge fan of the series once she was willing to try it has been very enjoyable to watch. I look forward to seeing her back here some time in the future!
My belief is that dany is daughter of Rhaegar with Ashara Dayne. Re-reading, I just realized that GoT has the first Dany chapter just after Jon's, and he argues with Benjen about bastards and wanting to join the NIght's Watch. It would be very George to make a story about a bastard (Dany) who lived a live thinking she is a Princess, while a Prince (Jon) lived his live believing he's a Bastard.
But we already have a bastard that is raised as a prince and then king in Joffrey. Alongside Myrcella and Tommen. Re-read Arya's first chapter Jon says during the training yard scene that princes won't be harmed by bastard blades. The irony is that Jon is the actual prince and Joffrey is the bastard.
Yay! So glad you two got together for a video
I didn’t know I could have this crossover! ❤
This has made me want to do a full asoiaf reread and then binge watch Preston's vault of tinfoil theories all over again
that was a very enjoyable discussion, thank you both!
An unexpected crossover but an excellent crossover!
The Pink Letter was written by Wyman Manderly!! He makes the most sense
Two of the best! What a collab
My fav scene(s) on re-read is Purple Wedding or all of Qhorin Halfhand
Bookborn's descent into ASoIaF feels very parallel to Merphy Napier's descent into One Piece, and I'm so here for it 😂
I thought I was the only one who made that connection
Guys the stars are aligned! Bookborn finished ASOIAF! HOTD S2 is coming out this Sunday! Winds of Winter soon??????
The collab that was promised.
"Never in my life have I needed something so much, and never known until I received it."
- King Prince Vegeta
Wow finally someone who loves catelyn 🎉
She's one of my favourite characters
Cat fans unite.
eh she's okay. i like that she was kind to brienne
most the times preston says "some people think" its something he thinks hahhaha
Someone commented that Trey was the phd student presenting his research to a GRRM scholar and I get a similar feeling from this one 😂
Bookborn might be more of a bachelor or masters student than phd in the GRRM studies department at the current state though.
YES!!! I SAW THE THUMBNAIL AND THIS IS AWESOME!!!
I was so happy to see this collaboration!
This lady has just finished the books for the first time and you're projecting so much of your opinions onto her it feels a bit much for me. There was greater value in letting her share her own thoughts FIRST on things rather than you waffling on about retcons because you microanalysed everything to the point of resentment. I really don't think there's any value in talking about alleged retcons with someone coming out of it the first time.
I knoww it's so painful. And he talks as if it's obvious and everyone should notice these things, but Preston himself has admitted that this reread is the reason he's noticed all these issues. It's so weird to just assume that someone on their FIRST reread would immediately be ready to have a more negative feeling of the story. That's not how rereads of praised stories typically go, and it just doesn't in this case.
58:00 Thank you for mentioning this bookborn. Early in asoiaf it felt like anyone could die at any time. However, in in the last 2 books, it seems GRRM has blown that out of the water. Hoping he rekindles that sense of dread in the early battles of Winds!
The time travel part its pretty much the same concept the autor of the manga attack on titan used, a character does exactly what bran its doing and the reveal explains eveything on the story, it relates to dune as well.
A character in attack on titan discovers that can see memories of his predecesors, past people that inherit a thing that he has (like a parasite). Then he can see the memories of past "vases of the parasite" and at some point he realizes that he can talk to them, so he starts to manipulate around "his past selfs" kinda manipulating himself to break the system, it has a tree and all, and the themes revolve around free will.
I wish more people would read, I need people to talk about books with.
love to see bookborn colabing with the asoiaf community
I hecking love Bookborn
Great Video Preston. I saw all her reviews of the books, Cool collab🎉
I sometimes think some of what confuses people is that they're trying to approach George just from one lens of understanding. Be that history parallels, his own life experiences, his own past work, or other fantasy works he gives shoutouts to with Houses in his world, or what classic fantasy is, etc.
But very few put all of those different lenses together. Usually, if something is confusing, it's because a different lens is needed for understanding it. The closest to getting all of the lenses is Preston, but he lags in some of the history parallels and outside works George references.
Quentin isn't just a meditation on the folly of war, his entire plot is ripped from history where Charles Stuart, Prince of Wales, traveled in incognito with his more handsome best friends to see the Spanish Infanta about a marriage alliance that ended more or less the same way Quentyn's journey does with him feeling desperate for the journey to have meant something because getting rebuffed by the Infanta was inconceivable.
Then there's Olenna as prisoner. That is ripped from a series of French Historical novels from the 40s/50s that George RR Martin wrote the forward to the most recent English translation to calling "the original Game of Thrones". Les Rois Maudits is a series of historical novels all about the Fall of the Capetian dynasty and the lead up to the 100 Years War. And in the 4th book, the king who is rather cruel and Joffrey like is killed by an old woman sneaking a poisoned almond into his chambers herself. Followed up by her poisoning his infant son who is her godson and king all because the infant king's uncle is married to her daughter and likely to rule in favor of her keeping her lands instead of awarding them to her nephew Robert.
It's how George blends and synthesizes all these ideas together that's his particular artistry. Sometimes he does well with them, other times he doesn't.
FINALLY!!! Love this
Catelyn is one of my favorite characters in ASOIAF. Very interesting and complex character.
I enjoy Bookborn's optimistic outlook.
Great! Another Preston video to listen to while doing house work
The crossover I never knew I needed! Awesome!
Absolutely goated crossover this is crazy
Oh my goodness what a nice surprise guest! I follow you both 😊